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Archived: English Roadsters







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   bike identification posted by: Cory on 12/10/2001 at 11:27:45 PM
Anybody have any info on Rigby Brothers bikes?? I have a 3 speed model mid 60s?







AGE / VALUE:   Re- pop handlebar grips: Wish I may, wish I might posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/10/2001 at 7:01:05 PM
I wish somebody would reproduce the old style handlebar grips. You know, make them again! How difficult is it to make rubber handlebar grips? The right kind of rubber in a mold. The molds could be made but finding the exact duplicate of rubber is the problem I guess. There are any number of popular English grips out there to chose from.







WANTED:   Looking ofr pre-1930's posted by: Jon-Paul Bingham on 12/10/2001 at 11:50:21 AM
Hello looking to buy and bicycle or project MUST be pre-30's British
Any help much appreciated

All the best

JP


   RE:WANTED:   Looking ofr pre-1930's posted by sam on 12/11/2001 at 8:17:15 PM
Look under the Hi-Wheelers , they have an 1880s 50"Rudge for sale.






AGE / VALUE:   Before I do this... posted by: Dale on 12/10/2001 at 11:15:32 AM
I've got a mid-50s, off-brand English three speed, Argyle by name, that none of you has heard of (previous post). Aside from the Phillips crank and AW hub (splined), most of the components are cheap. Condition is only fair.

If anyone knows any reason why I shouldn't start cutting and welding to make it into a recumbent, speak now or forever hold your peace.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Before I do this... posted by Stacey on 12/10/2001 at 11:53:27 AM
Cut away to your hearts content Dale!

You'll never know the satisfaction of building your own 'bent till you hack your first frame. Just start cutting away everything that doesn't belong on a recumbent... and then weld on that which is missing. Eventually you'll end up with what you want! That's what I did... and never looked back!

My frame is now at the painters and I can't wait to get it back. You can find out some info on how I'm doing mine at http://staceyrhymer.freeservers.com/bent.html

What ever you decide to do, have fun doing it!

In the wind,
Stacey

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Before I do this... posted by Jim - I hope I~m not too late... on 12/13/2001 at 8:31:25 PM
Dale, There's got to be better candidates for your project than an old lightweight. If you can't find anything else, I'd be happy to give you a few later frames that would equally suit your project. imho, even second-string older roadsters and lightweights are worth keeping together...let me know if you want any of the frames I have on hand.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Before I do this... posted by Dale on 12/13/2001 at 9:46:30 PM
Well, maybe there are better candidates, but maybe not. The bike isn't in such great shape, the market value is probably less than the $20 I paid for it. The frame and fork are straight, but the rear wheel is pretty rough i.e. flat spots. It's also a ladies model therefore small framed and I'm 6'4". I'd build the recumbent using all '50s components, as if I were back in time doing so, so this makes the bike an ideal candidate.

Another aspect is that I don't need the bike. If you want it, you could have it for what I paid - though shipping may make this "not worth it" (I'm in upstate NY). Unless you have some 36-spoke 20" or 16" wheels...






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer twin start threads posted by: Peter. on 12/10/2001 at 9:04:35 AM
Ever wondered about those twin-start threads on the RH ball ring/hub shell of a Sturmey hub? Why do we have to mark the relative positions of those two parts before removal, so as to retain the same relationship when re-assembling? Well now I (think) I know...

(from 'Motor Cycle and Cycle Trader', 1st. Nov. 1929): -

'the position of the ball ring in relation to the hub shell must be carefully marked, since the ball ring has a two-start thread, and consequently can be tightened up in one of two positions 180 degrees apart. If when replacing the ball ring the wrong start is used, retruing the wheel may be necessary.'

What difference does it make? is it that if the wrong start is used the thread tightens before the ball ring is all the way in, upsetting (very slightly) the rim allignment to the cones? regards, Peter.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer twin start threads posted by Dale on 12/10/2001 at 11:12:47 AM
That's almost verbatim what SA said in the old service manual. I don't understand either. If you get a good start of both threads, it will eventually tighten down agains the shoulder on the shell. How far can it be off due to manufacturing tolerances? If you only get one thread started and the other catches 180 later, how much can it be off at the rim? A mm or so? Too much to compensate for by axil positioning?

I've suspected it was partly "Always have your cycle maintained at an authorised cycle shop"...

They've quit using the two-start thread, right? Wasn't it sometime in the 60s?






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hero? posted by: Edward in Vancouver on 12/9/2001 at 11:10:46 PM
Anyone know about the "Hero" brand of bicycles? Just saw one in a consignment store today: Ladies 28" rod brake, single speed, Full chaincase(missing pieplate)chainwheel wth Hero cut out, triple sprung leather saddle stamped Hero, Raleigh dimpled forks, 4'' pedals stamped Hero(no reflectors), and quite nice pinstriping (or box lining) Some of the lugs were very rough. Only a 3 digit code on the seat clamp, 4 88. From the paint and chrome, it could be 13 years old. Is it Indian or Chinese?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hero? posted by Ian on 12/10/2001 at 2:38:32 AM
Edward, I have seen Hero bikes in my country from time to time and always understood that although they were imported from Hong Kong they were actually made in China. They are a very good replica of an older English roadster and I believe they also make other styles and also motorized bikes. Regards, Ian.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hero? posted by Pete on 12/10/2001 at 7:24:54 AM
I think they are Indian - have a look at www.herocycles.com.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hero? posted by Mark on 12/10/2001 at 7:13:32 PM
Oh no! Indian bike bbbaaaadddd! A pox on Indian bike! Indian bike very, very junk!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hero? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/11/2001 at 9:58:55 AM
I can tell you that I ordered a set of 28 X 1 1/2 Westwood pattern rims(for use with rod brakes) and these were the most wonderfuly made rims I have ever had the pleasure of riding. We built these up and I put them on one of my bikes and the bike would glide along and handled wonderfully. I was amazed, I have other rims and wheels that are new and everythings true too, and I prefer these "Made in India" rims over origonal Raleigh's or even Dunlop's any day.
The plating was excellent and they were cheap, like $15.00 each. I was told the supplier could not or would not be able to order more so it dried up. Now, the Hero bike itself, I can't really say and there I prefer an origonal Raleigh, Humber, Rudge or Phillips. If you want the best then find an origonal Sunbeam Roadster or a Dursley Pederson origonal or even the well made re-introduced Dursley Pederson bike that has been updated and no longer uses the rod brakes but cantileaver brakes instead.
There are other recent roadsters I would rather knock first from other parts of the world before I dissed the Indian made bikes. Like I said, I have not seen or ridden the Hero, not yet.When I get to visit the Indian bike parts "buffet bar" I will want rear racks, rims and other bits. Maybe a bell or two.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Love those rims posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/11/2001 at 10:07:58 AM
I can tell you that I ordered a set of 28 X 1 1/2 Westwood pattern rims(for use with rod brakes) and these were the most wonderfuly made rims I have ever had the pleasure of riding. We built these up and I put them on one of my bikes and the bike would glide along and handled wonderfully. I was amazed, I have other rims and wheels that are new and everythings true too, and I prefer these "Made in India" rims over origonal Raleigh's or even Dunlop's any day.
The plating was excellent and they were cheap, like $15.00 each. I was told the supplier could not or would not be able to order more so it dried up. Now, the Hero bike itself, I can't really say and there I prefer an origonal Raleigh, Humber, Rudge or Phillips. If you want the best then find an origonal Sunbeam Roadster or a Dursley Pederson origonal or even the well made re-introduced Dursley Pederson bike that has been updated and no longer uses the rod brakes but cantileaver brakes instead.
There are other recent roadsters I would rather knock first from other parts of the world before I dissed the Indian made bikes. Like I said, I have not seen or ridden the Hero, not yet.When I get to visit the Indian bike parts "buffet bar" I will want rear racks, rims and other bits. Maybe a bell or two. Still, the quality is not the excactly same and perhaps these rims are not as good "in the long run" as Dunlops or Raleigh/ Sturmey Archer. They were a slightly diffrent pattern of Westwood rim. It's probably true to say that the Indian Hero is not as good as an origonal Raleigh. What is "close enough" for you?
You can find an origonal Raleigh rod brake bike on e- bay, so why go for a Hero? Then again, you can buy a new Hero for less than a used Raleigh. What do you guys think of the Hero site? and how does one go about getting a Hero bike? Any Hero owners want to speak up?






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   small rodbrake roadster on ebay... posted by: Warren on 12/9/2001 at 7:19:09 PM
Go to http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1044902614 for what appears to be a nice ladies rod brake roadster. Churchill deluxe? Could go cheap. Perfect for those of us with short inseams. I can't ride a Tourist/DL1...

usual disclaimers


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   small rodbrake roadster on ebay... posted by Bob on 12/10/2001 at 3:05:37 PM
Warren -- I looked on e-bay. nice bike. what exactly is a Churchill roadster? BTW, thanks for all the knowledge you bring to these discussions.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   small rodbrake roadster on ebay... posted by Warren on 12/10/2001 at 9:38:59 PM
Dunno what it is but it looks authentic...english, headbadge, chainguard and all. It won't ever have the collectable value of the big names but would be a nice addition none the less. It's probably a rebadged Raleigh/Humber/Rudge etc. It's similar to my ladies Hercules roadster...well my wife's actually. As to the knowledge bit, you're welcome (blush) but really, it's just regurgitating what others have already sussed out, coupled with one's own experience. A few more Sheldon Browns (and many others on this list) and there would be little mystery left. I'm fortunate to have pal who is a first rate wrench and ex- crit racer, who has led me down the proverbial garden path of bicycles the last 15 years. I sometimes wonder if I'll ever know half of what Doug knows. But I digress...






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Sprite posted by: Niek Luijtjes on 12/9/2001 at 6:30:50 PM
I recently bought two Raleigh Sprites 5 speed bikes. They are in great shape, air in the tires and some oil
and they were fine except for the shifter on the man's bike, the right side plastic shifter is broken. I can
probable make a new one bur prefer to buy one. I cannot find any information on them anywhere
including on this site. I have seen only one listed on E-bay and one is for sale here, no specs no age
information. Does anybody know anything about them. They are real nice bikes, everything original, even
the tires, the tires are not in great shape but are holding up. They are green in color, factory racks, block
rubber pedals no reflectors on them serial number on the ladies is 3550049 the year on the 5 speed SA hub
is 67. The hubs work great chain looks new. Saddles are United brand, I assume that the original owners
had them changed or maybe they were original? Any information is appreciated.

One more question, kind of related. I am looking for a source of quality 10-12 mm steel tubing to make
luggage racks. I grew up in Holland where the bikes like the Rudge sports I had, were equipped with a
rack more then strong enough to carry an adult (legal there) often there were three people on one bike, the
third one on the top tube. Now, I do not intend to do that but I would like a rack that fits and looks like its
part of the bike and also strong enough to carry a real load. The sprites mentioned above have 40 spoke
rears so clearly intended for hd use. One more remark on the carrying capacity of those bikes way back
when. My mothers bicycle had two child seats on it, one on the rear rack and one on the handlebar, in
addition to that she carried the shopping on it as well, in two bags on the rear rack, yes two kids and all
the stuff from the weekly market, amazing . She was still using her bike to shop when she was 75 (she had
given away her car) but she stopped a year later when she developed a hip problem.

Niek.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Sprite posted by Warren on 12/11/2001 at 10:54:09 PM
Hi Niek...nobodys talking so....

The Sprites are real nice bikes because of the early internal hubs. They don't get as much interest as other Sports models because the 3 speeds date back a few more decades than your 67's. Ride them. Contact VVVintage (top of the page) or Harris Cyclery on the web if you need some parts. Or post here. Can't help you with the racks. If the saddles are comfortable, use them.

I've spent a couple of months bike touring through your country and I wish everyone in North America could experience the civilized way your country and citizens treat bicycles. I met many other seniors enjoying cycling....my grandmother-in-law was 85 when she stopped riding the streets of Bevervijk and Harleem. Now you've got me thinking of stropwaffle. Frites met frites sauce. Palling ein broedje. And those buns at Xmas...oli-boli? Hart sticha lecher. (excuse my spelling)
Dooey!






AGE / VALUE:   info on Carlton (club?) bike posted by: dafydd_williams@yahoo.com on 12/9/2001 at 12:53:21 PM
I picked up a Carlton the other day that I think is a clubman bike. I know little about either Carltons or club bicycles, so any information would be welcome.

What I do know: Very nice lugwork. It has chromed forks and stays. "C2777" is stamped into rear dropouts. Headbadge reads "Carlton, Worksop, England," with picture of a cyclist. The front hub is Brampton; The rear is a 68 SA AW. Rims are 1 X 1 1/4 Dunlop lightweights. The shift cable runs down the down tube rather than with the top tube, pulley is a plastic clamp on (reads "Sturmey Archer England"). Spindle has Carlton clubman stamped into it. Bars are low rise, maybe 15" to 16" wide. Brakes are Weinman centerpulls. Aluminum (I think) fenders.

Provenance bonus: has a sticker from The Bicycle Exchange, Harvard Square, MA.

Again, any information is welcome. I have some ideas for souping it up (namely a close- or medium-ratio hub) but I'd like to keep it somewhat correct.

Thanks,
david







AGE / VALUE:   item#1045573497 posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/8/2001 at 12:00:01 PM
E- bay item#1045573497 Watsonian bicycle sidecar
Finally I see one of these on e- bay!
Way cool and rare! Not my auction, no relation to seller and if it were mine, I'd never sell it!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   item#1045573497 posted by DBean on 12/8/2001 at 5:47:15 PM
I'm reminded of the Boston Globe sidecar my mother had in the early 50s (for carrying the kids in Cambridge). My last memory of it (60s?) is that it was pressed steel painted red with a wheel like a coaster wagon; steel disc with solid rubber tire. The newsboys used them and my mother knew a good thing when she saw it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   item#1045573497 posted by sam on 12/8/2001 at 10:11:17 PM
Wish they showed the hook-up






MISC:   Christmas shopping posted by: Phil on 12/6/2001 at 5:09:22 PM
Hey bike guys and gals

Our friends at VVVintage may not so blatantly say it, as considerate as they are, but why not support the shop that supports this discussion site with a little "business"?

I just ordered from the "parts for sale" page a nice wicker basket as a Christmas present for my wife. Why not take a look around and see if there's anything on your Christmas list that can be found here. I'm sure that our friends at Menotony would appreciate it.

Getting in the Christmas spirit,
Phil


   RE:MISC:   Christmas shopping posted by Bob on 12/6/2001 at 11:54:58 PM
great idea, phil. they're good people, provide us a wonderful web site and deserve our support and patronage.
a fine Christmas suggestion.

   RE:MISC:   Christmas shopping posted by Bob on 12/6/2001 at 11:55:30 PM
great idea, phil. they're good people, provide us a wonderful web site and deserve our support and patronage.
a fine Christmas suggestion.






MISC:   Jim Huntingtons Sidewalk Bike show Dec 8th posted by: Jim on 12/6/2001 at 11:43:10 AM
This Saturday Dec 8th is Jim Huntingtons open house and sidewalk bike show. Bring your best, you make the show. Location 1005 Central Street Palmer Mass.
For directions and information contact Jim Huntington @ day 413.283.4113 or eves 413.267.5230







FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by: DBean on 12/5/2001 at 9:54:10 PM
Raleigh RSW 16 Bicycle 1966, Ebay Item # 1042775338
Interesting bike; like a Folder but non-folding, 16" wheels, Dynohub (man, that's gonna spin fast!)
Can someone tell us a little about it?


   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by Edward in Vancouver on 12/6/2001 at 3:25:50 PM
I picked up an RSW about a year ago in a consignment store, the AW was dated '68. Mine came with a "twistgrip" shifter, and rear carrier rack which also supports the fender. The chain ring is large, 48 teeth, and the rear sprocket is a 13. It's fun to bomb around on, especially with my kids because I can step through the frame very easily. To collapse it you press a trigger at the bottom bracket area an the frame folds in half. The seat post is really loooong, and so is the the front stem. Being 5'6'' I find the frame comfortable, don't really care for the twist grip shifter though. You can find more about the bike on Tony Hadland's site. Apparantly the bike was created at at time when "mini" bikes or "shoppers" were all the rage,(Raleigh 20, 18, Choppers) Raleigh had some kind of connection with Moulton at this time.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by Sheldon "I Am Not A Number" Brown on 12/8/2001 at 4:36:36 PM
I've been watching the early '60s TV series _The Prisoner_ on DVD, and note that there are lots of RSWs flitting around in the background, many with silly fringed awnings attached.

Be seeing you,

Sheldon

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/10/2001 at 10:12:05 AM
I would love to know what the story with these awnings were. Who did that and what were they thinking? Maybe the propmaster for the show? It was a cool touch, the village being odd and diffrent. Some of these R.S.W.'s in the show were painted in diffrent colors not available from factory. They had a awesome, metallic yellow shade of paint that Raleigh should have had on the regular bikes. I don't remember seeing Raleigh decals on the bikes so some custom painting must have been done and all the work to fabricate the awnings and how in the world did it attach to the bikes? In another scene we see a motorized Wisp too.
Sheldon has a link to the Prisoner tv series web site. If I ever make it to Port Merrion in England I'll have to bring my R.S.W.16.
I have a Michelin all white balloon tire size 16 X 2.125 and it doesn't fit because the origonal 16 X 2 Dunlop tire is slightly smaller. So what bike took these marshmallow tires origonally, I don't know. I have had the these 16 inch wheels rebuilt in stainless steel which is proof I've gotten boored/ somewhat nutty. It was the dead of winter, I was the only one in the shop all day and so we did some wheelbuilding. I spoke to the guy who invented the rear brake hub used in this bike at one point. These R.S.W.16 are related to and share parts with the Raleigh Chopper which is more fun and much more valuable.
I've bought and sold Choppers for $100.00 never guessing what they would go for in the future on this thing they call e- bay.This R.S.W. bike doesn't lend itself to being hopped up, improved upon like you can do with the Raleigh Twenty. That's a shame as I love this little bike. I wonder how many people have souped up their Twenty bike "ala Sheldon"?
Finding exact replacement red and green brake or gear trigger cable is probably impossible. I never see it, anyplace.I'd love to ask Sir Alex Moulton what he thinks about the R.S.W. bikes.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by MichaelW on 12/11/2001 at 7:18:14 AM
Call me pedantic, but Port Merrion is in Wales, not England.
Any Welshmen or sheep would be deeply offended by the accusation of Englishness.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/11/2001 at 10:22:20 AM
Too late! I'm already wandering around England with the bike looking for Port Merrion. They're looking at me perplexed, muttering under their breath and telling me "That's in Wales, you twit! thanks!
In one episode, #6 gets out of the village,actually makes it back home and goes back to where he resigned from and tells everything, he tries to blow the whistle on the village, but he gets put back there anyway. The "powers that be"(from the village) just thought #6 could use a vacation!
It was great! Get the DVD like Sheldon, I promise not to describe any more episodes!

   RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by MichaelW on 12/11/2001 at 10:49:34 AM
Christopher,
which part of the UK are you in? Are you one of the natives, or visiting?
Michael W from East Sussex

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Raleigh RSW posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/11/2001 at 6:48:45 PM
I was joking, no I haven't made it to England yet.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   triumph girls three speed posted by: thomas h. andrews on 12/5/2001 at 5:59:43 PM
ive been curious about this bike for some time. was purchased several years ago by me at estate auction.Is a red color, triumph decals intact,with a delicate single pinstripe outlining the fenders. Sturmey archer 3sp rear hub. the hub has numbers on it,71 and 11. does this indicate year 1971 11th month or is there another interpretation?it is all original bike with what looks to me sun fade from setting in one positionlong time! the tires are raleigh records and look to be originol, and hold air.paint scratched on fork outer surfaces and marredserial number under seat post what i canread is 59186. Is this buke a product of raleigh> what year and is it desirable?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   triumph girls three speed posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/5/2001 at 6:40:37 PM
November of 1971 was when it was made. Made by Raleigh in Nottingham, who put the Triumph name on basically a b- grade Raleigh bike.
perhaps $50-100.00 in there. A great city bike, around town bike to run to and from the market on.Yours has a motorcycle related name on it that's a plus.
It would sure beat walking and these that get thrown out get rescued and put back on the road. People are saving them when they pop up.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   triumph girls three speed posted by response back on triumph bike on 12/5/2001 at 7:06:00 PM
this bike accualy has a decal on seat post that says made in holland but the nottingham reference is noted on one decal

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   triumph girls three speed posted by response back on triumph bike on 12/5/2001 at 7:06:01 PM
this bike accualy has a decal on seat post that says made in holland but the nottingham reference is noted on one decal

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   triumph girls three speed posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/6/2001 at 1:34:39 AM
A curve ball! Raleigh owned Gazelle cycles in Holland during this time and so Raleigh had Dutch Gazelle make a bike with the Triumph decal/headbadge. I have a Raleigh Sprite in white (a tall frame too) and it was made in Holland also.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   age/value of humber posted by: john kettle on 12/5/2001 at 1:56:26 PM
I picked up a Humber from the dump and having restored it I was wondering how old it is so here's a description: Serial/no. 289177H, 4 speed (internal), calliper brakes, no dynohub, B66 saddle, 3 point steering lock, black 'people holding hands' chainring, westrick rims, white pinstripe on fenders, pulley for gear cable by seatpin, 'by appointment to King George' on badge....any ideas anyone? I'm guessing early 50s. I'm not a collector but its a fantastic bike to ride (I commute 112 miles p/week on it) and I'd love to know a bit of history, cheers, John.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   age/value of humber posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/5/2001 at 6:12:34 PM
Hey, it's a four speed too. Nice find! The date it was made should be stamped on the outer 4 speed hub shell.
Look down under 'site navigation' here at OldRoads and you'll see Raleigh/ Rudge / Humber exploded diagrams. Your bike is shown there. I hope you have the double blade Humber fork!
Humber was bought up by Raleigh who made your bike. The headset parts, bottombracket cups and crank spindles are made by Raleigh and are the Raleigh thread size 26 T.P.I. Go poke about in Sheldon Brown's huge web site at http://www.Sheldonbrown.com (old bikes, Raleigh bicycles) Harris Cyclery sells parts you may need and they offer parts like cables, and front hub cones and all sorts of goodies that are scarce here at OldRoads.com I see these go to 177.00 or therabouts on e- bay, sometimes higher, sometimes lower.
Sheldon has a serial number chart listed at his site that a pal found in the Nottinghamshire archives. You can look up your bike in that, to find a date, I believe.
I wonder when the black finish on the chainwheels was stoped? I have some cranks that have this finish myself.