OldRoads.com

This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: English Roadsters







AGE / VALUE:   Amateur radio posted by: Albert on 3/31/2001 at 1:13:04 PM
Are there roadster-minded amateur radio operators who would like to QSO ? I operate 2-meters locally ( Philadelphia area) and 20/40 meters ssb.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Amateur radio posted by Wings on 3/31/2001 at 11:41:53 PM
I would need a bigger DynoHub to do that!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Amateur radio posted by Keith on 4/5/2001 at 6:16:09 AM
For many years volunteer amateur raido operators have played an important role in coordinating on-the-road assistence and emergency calls for riders on our local Tour of the Scioto River Valley (Col. Oh. to Portsmounth Oh, and back). Check for similar rides in your area -- your skills may be very valuable to them.






AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by: Lloyd on 3/31/2001 at 12:10:49 PM
I just purchased an old bicycle at a local flea market. It looks like a single speed model. Definetly from the UK. The steering head has a metal plate with the letter "H" carved into it. It has 28" tires marked "DUNLOP R0ADSTERS. The controls to the caliper brakes are by levers and rods, front and rear. The seat is leather and mostly intact with a decorative pattern cut through the cover. The springs under the seat are a little different than I have seen. It appeared that two pieces of spring wire were twisted together and then coiled into a wound type spring. There are four springs supporting the seat. Under the seat is a small leather tool pouch. There is a flat metal luggage carrier above the rear fender. The bike is in relatively good shape with minmal rust and most of the original paint. The color is black and white with double lined pinstripes on the fenders and frame. The frame is a two piece type and is bolted up behind the crank pedal housing and by the seat post member. There is a small amount of decal remaining on the rear fender. All I can make out is ------- Ltd. England. The decal is oval in shape and applied just above the rear fender reflector.
ANY CLUES OUT THERE. THANKS, LLOYD L.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by Warren on 3/31/2001 at 2:32:59 PM
Looks like a rod brake Hercules Roadster. Likely a 50's bike...maybe earlier. I think Keith tools around on a Herc Roadster...the 26 inch wheeled models were more common. A really nice bike, especially if it's a mens frame, just cuz it's a little rarer.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by sam on 3/31/2001 at 2:54:57 PM
what type of ghaingard does it have?Full enclosed or open?the front sprocket sometimes has the name made in it.Old Hercules single speed rod brakes were sold in mexico a lot years ago,wish I'd got one,they're good bikes ---sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by LLOYD on 4/1/2001 at 10:29:22 AM
IT IS ME AGAIN. I JUST FOUND THE SERIAL NUMBER FOR THE BIKE. IT IS 25843. THE TIRES ARE 28 X 1-1/2. WHAT YEAR?
THANKS. LLOYD L.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/1/2001 at 11:56:36 AM

Please describe the cycle in more detail. Nobody has Hercules serial numbers posted so that does us not good at all. What size wheel, cable or rod brake, what color, single speed or three speed, describe it in as much detail as you can. Hercules bikes are favorites of mine. Good find and keep looking for more like this.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/1/2001 at 12:03:46 PM
The small plate is a lamp bracket. H stands for Hercules and they had battery operated lights with slide brackets that went on these brackets. I have a few Hercules bikes in my fleet. Hercules Cycle and Motor was based in Birmingham, England and they made a wide range of bicycles until they were absorbed by Raleigh in 1962 and then Hercules became a name put on a Raleigh made cycle. Check out Sheldon Browns site at http://www.Sheldonbrown.com. It is huge and he has a ton of info posted about English bicycles. Thake your time reading everything and learn about it all.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   MYSTERY ENGLISH ROADSTER posted by Cassano on 4/9/2001 at 9:39:23 PM
Your unit could be a Humber






AGE / VALUE:   What year is my bike? Raleigh Sports posted by: Tracy on 3/31/2001 at 11:56:22 AM
I have a Raleigh Sports, Sturmey-Archer hub. It says 3 speed and the numbers "54 4" on the hub. I looked at the Raleigh serial numbers chart but the numbers don't seem to match any year on the chart. We took off the seat looking for the seat lug, but we're not sure how to get to that, we're thinking you'd have to take the frame apart to view it? Can anyone identify it by the "54 4" numbers? Thank you!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What year is my bike? Raleigh Sports posted by Tracy on 3/31/2001 at 1:28:32 PM
I just found another number on the frame: 49583 BX. I was hoping it was an old bike, but it looks like it is newer than 1966 according to the serial number system. Anyone know what year? Thanks again!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What year is my bike? Raleigh Sports posted by Jon on 3/31/2001 at 4:19:42 PM
Assuming that the rear wheel is original to the bike, you can also assume that the bicycle left the factory some time after April of 1954, the manufacture date on the hub.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Gear hubs posted by: Fred on 3/30/2001 at 7:13:04 PM
Good job on the SW hub analysis. Many years ago I designed a spring clutch that would eliminate the the drive pawls of gear hubs and be absolutely quiet. The clutch consisted of flat spring wire which is wound around coaxial cylinders that are butted together on a shaft.The input cylinder is attached to the shaft. The output cylinder is free to turn in one direction only. Cog belt pulleys were fitted on the output cylinder and the input shaft. Disingagement was accomplished by a fixed pawl which engaged a tang on the end of the clutch wire. The clutch spring wraps tight on both cylinders causing the output cylinder to rotate with the imput cylinder. the pawl is rotated into the path of the tang, causing the spring to loosen on the cylinders.
It works like a a chinese finger stall only in rotation. As torque increases on the output shaft the tighter the spring
is wrapped on the cylinders. The spring clutch works in oil or with grease. The clutch has more to it than I relate here but it does not apply to gear hubs.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Gear hubs posted by Oscar on 3/31/2001 at 8:48:48 PM
You're a good technical writer. I know nothing about SW internals, but I can follow what you're talking about. I like silent bikes.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW hub iformation web page now available posted by: Brian Hayes on 3/29/2001 at 2:52:46 PM
I now have a preliminary web page available for SW information. I hope it proves helpful to anyone with SWs. Here's the link (but change the ' to a tilde character - this site changes it for some reason):
http://my.ohio.voyager.net/'bdhayes/sa/sw.htm

I welcome comments, corrections, etc.

Brian


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW hub iformation web page now available posted by kath on 3/30/2001 at 5:26:51 AM
Taking apart a hub is beyond me, but that animated graphic showing the spring-less pawl explained a lot!






AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 posted by: Art on 3/29/2001 at 7:34:13 AM
What would be a fair price for me to pay for a rideable Raleigh (or comparable) 28" wheeled roadster with rod brakes, rack, etc? I want something original, but not mint by any means. Any ideas. I'm looking for a 23 incher. Art


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 posted by mikeq on 3/29/2001 at 10:43:23 AM
Ebay is a good place to peruse the going prices for assorted DL1s. I've seen 'em as low as around $300 for rideable, non-mint and incomplete bikes. On the upside, a mint, complete DL1 went for $1135 just last week!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 posted by Robert on 3/29/2001 at 8:41:59 PM
I have a rod brake Raleigh Tourist for sale. Paint has some scrapes and chrome has some surface rust that looks like it will clean up pretty good. Tires are good, rims are nice and straight. Bike has AW sturmey hub. Needs a kickstand. This is a good rider, for a fair price of $200 plus shipping/handling. Bike would come from southern Calif.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 posted by Keith on 4/3/2001 at 6:20:05 AM
Be careful with "rideable." Light surface rust on teh frame, and certin small parts is not a big deal for a "rider" DL-1. But rust on the rims will wear out your brake pads very quickly. By the 1970s, Raleigh chrome was not very good, and rusty 70s rims are basically worthless, which means replacement, and this should be figured into the price of a bike with rusty rims. Caveat emptor.






MISC:   Lacing question posted by: Robert on 3/28/2001 at 8:28:36 AM
With all the wheel lacing questions, I thought I would add my own.
This involves a 27" rear wheel from a Raleigh Sprite. The rim was very rust. So I decided to replace it.
The original has stainless spokes in a 4 cross pattern. The only odd thing is that it does not interlace the last spoke. In other words the heads up spoke simply crosses under the other 4 and does not go over the last spoke. Should I change this or did Raleigh know what they were doing?

Thanks


   RE:MISC:   Lacing question posted by Greg Groth on 3/28/2001 at 9:25:57 AM
I've always interlaced the last spoke but have seen the practice you describe on countless production bikes. My guess would be that this was done by machine rather than by hand, and they couldn't get the machines to interlace the last spoke (this is purely conjecture on my part). I posted a question along these lines on rec.bicycles.tech a while back and the response was that it improves the strength of the wheel. Another lesson I was taught was to make sure the pulling spoke on the drive side of the rear wheel was laced elbow-in. Reason being that as the pulling spoke's tension increases under load, it will straighten and push the pushing spoke sideways. When the pushing spoke is laced elbow-in, it will move the pushing spoke into the center of the wheel. If the pulling spoke is laced elbow-out, it will move the pushing spoke outwards and could interfere with the derailleur. On the rear wheel, it makes sense (to me anyway) that by interlacing - as one spoke increases in tension, it will straighten, push the crossed spoke sideways (which has lost tension) and take up some of the slack in that spoke. I still do not understand the engineering aspects enough as to why this should be done on the front wheel as well, but have done so for years with no problems other than occasional clicking noises from the wheels. Yhis can be traced back to friction at the last cross and can be solved with a drop of oil. From what I've seen, and felt in the difference in the wheels built both ways, I would reccomend doing it.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Correction posted by Greg Groth on 3/28/2001 at 9:28:27 AM
"When the pushing spoke is laced elbow-in, it will move the pushing spoke into the center of the wheel. "

should have read

"When the pulling spoke is laced elbow-in, it will move the pushing spoke into the center of the wheel. "






AGE / VALUE:   Lacing Wheels posted by: Jon on 3/27/2001 at 6:41:39 PM
There were a lot of excellent recommendations on sizing spokes, dishing, and truing wheels. But can anybody out there provide an accurate description of properly loading spokes into the hub and lacing them into the rim so that in the end the valve hole winds up in the larger space between spokes.(and do it without having to redo it!) It's easier to do than to actually describe.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Lacing Wheels posted by Greg Groth on 3/27/2001 at 9:06:03 PM
Do one side at a time. It will be hard getting the second side in, but it will be easier than finding out you have them in one spoke off from where you wanted and having to pull them out and put them back in, also makes it easier to work on the wheel as you will only have 18 spokes going every which way instead of 36. Now for some breif termonology. A spoke that's laced from the inside of the flange is called elbows-out or head-down. A spoke laced into the flange towards the center of the hub is elbows-in, or head-up. Now, when lacing the spokes to the rim, there are two kinds of spokes, leading & trailing, or pushing & pulling. This will make more sense looking at a built-up rear wheel on the drive side. When the hub is turned, half of the spokes will lose tension, and half will increase. The spokes whose tesion increases are trailing or pulling spokes, the ones that lose tension are leading or pushing spokes. I've read other instructions stating to lace all the elbow in spokes first, but have found this an easier way for people unfamiliar with wheel lacing, personally I insert all the spokes before starting.

To start lacing the wheel, start at the valve hole. The holes in the rim are offset, half are offcenter to one side, and half to the other. Place the rim on a flat surface with the valve hole away from you (following directions are relative to looking at the hub/rim in this manner). Set the hub in the center of the rim with the spokes upwards. Now take a heads-up spoke (elbow-in) and attatch it to the first hole to the right of the valve hole that is offset to the side you are working on. (It may be right next to the hole, it might be two holes over). Now, (I'm going to use a 3 cross wheel for example) take the first head-down spoke directly to the left of the spoke you've just attatched to the rim and pass it under the spoke you've just laced, take the second head-down spoke and do the same thing. Now take the third head-down spoke and pass it on top of the attatched spoke and attatch it to the rim. Take the next head-up spoke directly to the right of the first one you laced and attatch it to the rim, and then take the first head-down spoke to the left, pass it under, second head-down spoke under, third spoke over and attatch to the rim. Continue the rest of the way around.

With one side done, you can fill in the other side of the hub. Go back to the first spoke you put in the hub. If you look through the hub, you will see that the spoke holes are offset from one side to the other. With the rim flipped over, take the spoke that lines up just to the left of the first spoke you installed. It doesn't matter if it's head-up or head-down, and attatch it to the rim at the first hole to the left of the first spoke you installed. Take the first spoke (opposite laced of the spoke you've just attatched) and pass it under, second spoke passed under, third spoke passed over and attatch it to the rim. continue around and you're done.

I would strongly suggest taking the time and measuring the rim & hub to figure out the correct spoke length. There is a good one at the following URL.

http://www.damonrinard.com/

I've read the previous posts that suggest using long nipples. In my experience these nipples have the same exact amount of threads as a regular nipple and cannot be used reliably in the event the spokes you have are too short. On another note (I've seen people do this) you cannot tap spokes that are too long to make them shorter. Threads in a spoke are rolled (pressed) into the spoke, and the metal is not cut. Cutting the spoke with a tap will make the spoke thinner than required, and will greatly increase the chance that the spoke will fail.

Make sure to use a built wheel as a model as it will make what I've just written a little clearer. Somewhat long-winded I know, but I hope this helps.






MISC:   British Bike Show - Philly April 6, 7, and 8 posted by: Drang und Sturmey on 3/27/2001 at 11:02:41 AM
Form the Internet BOB archives:

Greetings, April 6,7,and 8 will be the fifth annual Great British Bike Weekend. This event is sponsored by
Trophy Bikes
311 Market Street
Philadelphia, PA 19106

Telephone (215) 625.7999
e-mail Mcget@aol.com.

The event includes a British bike swap, a Sturmey Archer hub clinic, several all English Roadster rides, a Pub Crawl and much more.


   RE:MISC:   British Bike Show - Philly April 6, 7, and 8 posted by Drang und Sturmey on 3/27/2001 at 11:13:45 AM

rough schedule:
FRIDAY
noon-6pm registration
6pm welcome tea
7 pm "4 Squares Ride" (easy night group ride)

SATURDAY
8:30-10 registration
9 am Sturmey-Archer Hub Clinic
11am Picnic Ride through Fairmount Park
2-3:30pm Visit with Curtis Anthony at Via Bicycles,
East Coast's Premier Classic Bike Shop

4pm Bike and Pub Crawl (Group Photo)
and slide show reception at Fergie's Pub

SUNDAY
8:30 am coffee/tea and
9am-1pm Brit Bike Swap Meet

11:45 (approx) Bike on Rail to Chestnut Hill for visit to Best Of British shop and restaurant
2pm Wissahickon Ride to Center City via Fairmount Park

4:30 closing and farewells....


Look for us( Trophy Bikes) in the 300 Block of Market Street -- sign says "BICYCLE" at 311 Market Street.
Any probs... just ask people how to get to the Liberty Bell and we're two blocks east of that!

   RE:RE:MISC:   British Bike Show - Philly April 6, 7, and 8 posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/27/2001 at 3:07:16 PM
I think Albert would enjoy the Sturmey-Archer hub clinic.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   British Bike Show - Philly April 6, 7, and 8 posted by Albert on 3/28/2001 at 4:12:33 AM
Pray-tell Christopher! Why? And, what do you think I can contribute other than a plea that we stop engaging in denial of some of the problems associated with SA hubs. Cheers.






MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by: bicyclepriest on 3/26/2001 at 9:10:03 PM
Just picked up a discarded bike. It is a Raleigh. It has 28in
wheel, rod brakes and a three-speed S/A hub dated July 1977.
Since it has 28in wheels and and rod brake I assumed it was
one of those famed DL-1 Tourist. I have never seen one in my young
age and so I do not know for sure. The seat is gone, the brake pads are
vaporized, wheels are rusty and seems as thought it was house
painted black. On top of all of that it seems to have been thru
a fire, yet it looks so cool with those "big" wheels and long wheelbase.
Do I have a DL-1 Tourist or something else Raleigh made. IF it is a Tourist,
I need some things. Where could I find replacement parts other that
ebay? Also what is the thread pitch and diameter of the bolts that attach
the seats stays to the dropouts(Both bolts are missing but the "recessed nuts"
are still there? I will probably get it functioning and use as a
rain beater.


   RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by Kevin C. on 3/27/2001 at 4:29:55 AM
Sounds like a DL-1, all right. The biggest problem will probably be the rusty rims. If they're really rusty, the roughness will devour any new brake pads, and good pads for rod-brake bikes are fairly expensive.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/27/2001 at 9:21:27 AM
It is possible to scare up a set of rims if you look.

   RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by sam on 3/27/2001 at 2:01:40 PM
Yes,Do hang on to it,let us know what else is missing.So you will need rims pads tires and tubs.How are the fenders and the brake linkage?I got a seat from India--email me at samclingo@hotmail.com we'll talk--sam

   RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/27/2001 at 4:25:32 PM
If it has really been through a fire I would be hesitant to ride it. The fork may fail, we wouldn't want you to get hurt. What do you think Sam?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by Greg Groth on 3/27/2001 at 9:22:39 PM
In regards to the fire, I've heard rumors of a certain LBS where the owner repainted frames. This individual would take the frame and fork, wrap it in cardboard (old bike boxes), place it in a 55 gallon drum, add a little gasoline, and set the mess on fire, burning off all the old paint. After the blaze burned out and cooled off, he would wash the frame down and repaint. I would consider this a tall tale, except I know this person, and it sounds just like something that he would do. This practice taking place in the 60s before environmental and safety issues were of concern of course.

Having seen bikes that have been in fires, the damage is pretty much self-evident. The paint is usually burned right off, and the steel rusty from humidity. I would question the use of a tubular fork that had been in a fire as well, and post the previous anecdote as another of those bizarre cycling tales of yore. The LBS owner in question most likely did not have problems with his methods as he was a Schwinn dealer, whose bikes had the one piece Ashtabula forks that would probably be less prone to fire damage than a tubular fork.

   RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by sam on 3/28/2001 at 4:35:52 PM
That's a good question"how hot is too hot"Old bikes had the paint baked on in an oven because the old paint didn't have a lot of VOC , new bikes have the power coat baked on too.joints that have brass must be heated to the point the metal turns red---but these are controled heatings.if a bike was burned in someother way a close inspection Of the greese in the cups might give a clue as to how hot it got--sam PS the cost of parts for a rod brake 28" might also be a factor here.Would it be better to use this one as a parts bike?

   RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by bicyclepriest on 3/30/2001 at 4:29:41 PM
that "burning off the paint" idea seems more correct to the
reason that the frame looks burnt, cause only the frame has
experienced fire damage since the tires look as though they
are original. Is this business of concern about the tubular
fork a real concern as far as riding this "beater"? I really want to get it functioning and ride it. Also can anybody answer my previous question about the diameter and pitch of those bolts that hold the seat stays to the dropouts?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Raleigh DL-1 Tourist? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/8/2001 at 10:02:52 AM
E-mail me your postal address for a free copy of a sheet telling threading pitch for Raleigh bolts used in various models






MISC:   English bike show posted by: Jeff Bikenutz on 3/26/2001 at 6:24:15 PM
Anybody hear about an English bike show April 6-8 going on somewhere near Philadelphia? I'm looking for some details.







MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by: Albert on 3/25/2001 at 11:46:37 AM
Dale Oswald, I would certainly like to hear from you on the question of your attempts at using SA shifters on Shimano hubs and Shimano shifters on SA hubs. You challenged my recommendation without citing information from your own actual attempts. I fear that you may have dissuaded some readers of this dicussion area from using this helpful shifter switching practice on the basis of some rather specious contention. Readers may wish to proceed to entries made on 3/21.


   RE:MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by Clyde on 3/25/2001 at 5:24:10 PM
Albert,
I haven't tried the SA trigger/Shimano hub combo, or vise versa; but the SA trigger/Sachs Torpedo Dreigang hub combo works on my Armstrong commuter. In a future overhaul, I'll try the Shimano trigger/SA hub combo.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by Albert on 3/26/2001 at 8:01:06 AM
Clyde. Thanks for sharing that information!

   RE:MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by Dale Oswald on 3/26/2001 at 10:18:35 AM
I didn't mean to start a flame war, it was just my experience that it didn't work.

The posting was hard to follow because it substituted square brackets for greater than and less than signs. I don't remember the exact measurements of the SA cable travel, but it was shorter for the 1-2 shift than the 2-3 shift, whereas the Shimano moved the same amount of cable for both shifts. I was using a Bendix Stick Shift (SA compatible) with a Shimano no-brake hub, ca. 1968.

In summary, if I remember correctly,
Hub 1-2 cable travel 2-3 cable travel
--- ---------------- ----------------
SA about 3mm about 7mm
Shim 5mm 5mm

Total for SA is longer than total for Shimano, so I suspect that they are quite incompatible -- although you might be able to get an SA trigger to work on a Shimano hub.

Since shift cable travel is the common interface, the question of bellcrank versus chain should be irrelevant, i.e. it's "under the hood" of the hub assembly object.

I no longer own any Shimano hubs, so I can't take actual measurements, nor do I know if the Shimano cable travel amounts have changed over the years.

Facts are hard to argue with. Anybody willing to measure cable travel for us?

Another truth seeker,
Dale

   RE:RE:MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by ChristopherRobin on 3/26/2001 at 4:18:17 PM
A little while ago someone said the Shimano shifter is easier to use while wearing mittens. I thought that was a good point but aside from that, why bother?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by Albert on 3/27/2001 at 9:39:38 AM
Christopher, the Shimano shifter's cable is far less prone to breakage. Also, many of us may not have a SA cable or shifter handy but do have the Shimano.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Shifter compatability posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/27/2001 at 3:11:06 PM
Good point. I pass up on whole boxes of N.O.S. Shimano cable but the Sturmey cable I pick up. What is a Shimano cable worth? Maybe I shouldn't leave it there.I just don't care for Shimano






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW Hub - Tips, tricks, pitfalls, etc. posted by: Brian Hayes on 3/23/2001 at 5:15:53 PM
I am requesting that anyone who has a love/hate relationship with the SW hubs to post any tips, hints, bad experiences, etc. I am currently compiling a summary of design features, operation principles, trouble areas (pawls and pawl ring dogs are all I am aware of), etc. I am especially interested in any design evolution info from its introduction in 1954/1955 to its final configuration in 1960. I know there are at least two pawl designs, as well as changes to the pawl ring. Anything else? I'm also conducting a stress analysis on the pawls to see if I can perhaps make some modifications in design and have some made (this may be long term dreaming). Also, does anyone experience slightly rough running (1st/3rd gear only) on any of the 3-planet type hubs, including the SW, S5, modern sprinters, etc? I have a theory about 4-planet vs. 3-planet gearing...

I am planning on eventually placing this summary of information on my web page as a public resource, including diagrams, photos, etc.

Thanks in advance,
Brian


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW Hub - Tips, tricks, pitfalls, etc. posted by Christopherrobin on 3/24/2001 at 7:44:45 AM
The S.W.Hub is dead silent in operation. No clicking pawls to give you away.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW Hub - Tips, tricks, pitfalls, etc. posted by Sheldon Brown on 3/24/2001 at 10:36:54 AM
I believe the latest models used a standard single-sided (AW style) indicator spindle.

Mine works OK except for a tendency to skip occasionally in high gear.

Sheldon "Seated Pedaling Only" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| FiberFix Kevlar replacement spokes are back! |
| http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/special.html |
+-------------------------------------------------+

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW Hub - Tips, tricks, pitfalls, etc. posted by Sheldon Brown on 3/24/2001 at 10:40:13 AM
I believe the latest models used a standard single-sided (AW style) indicator spindle.

Mine works OK except for a tendency to skip occasionally in high gear.

Sheldon "Seated Pedaling Only" Brown
+-------------------------------------------------+
| FiberFix Kevlar replacement spokes are back! |
| http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/special.html |
+-------------------------------------------------+

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SW Hub - Tips, tricks, pitfalls, etc. posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 3/27/2001 at 3:12:47 PM
These pawls are unsprung, cresent shaped.






MISC:   Two things happened today... posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 3/22/2001 at 3:45:53 PM

FIRST, Another load of NOS Sturmey-Archer parts arrived:

- A metal Raleigh 4 drawer parts case filled with all kinds of small bits: pawls, pawl springs, single and double pinion gears, more
- 2 NOS Dynohub armatures, still in their boxes with ample packing. I saw a Dynohub re-magnetisation discussion here about a week ago. Hey, who needs to do that when you've got new ones?
- NOS Axles, ball cups, bearings, nutz, etc.
- Over the next few months we'll shoot and post all of these NOS parts


SECOND, Our shop flooded out today. We've had a lot of snow and rain here in the great state of Massachusetts this winter. Our shop space is downstairs [read cheap] and water seems to flow downhill. Fortunately no damage to anything, but it sure smells bad down here..

VVVintage Vintage Bicycles
http://Old(stinky)Roads.com






   RE:MISC:   Two things happened today... posted by Tom Findley on 3/23/2001 at 5:31:54 AM
Do you have any pawls for an SW hub? The disaster on the level of New Coke.

   RE:MISC:   Two things happened today... posted by Keith on 3/23/2001 at 6:09:30 AM
We all owe you a lot of thanks for running this site and making parts available to us. Hope the clean up goes quickly.






MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by: BillG on 3/22/2001 at 5:17:22 AM
Can anyone post a description of how to lace a wheel? I know there's got to be a better way than the way I do it. I'm sure there's a method that doesn't take 3 days!


   RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Tim Powell on 3/22/2001 at 2:05:07 PM
Hi, The first wheel I ever built back 30 years ago, I set up a stand with an old wheel in front of me and copied it. I used a home made dishing gauge and an old pair of forks as a trueing stand. I have done loads since then no trouble.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Oscar on 3/22/2001 at 4:48:20 PM
Every wheel I build takes at least three days. One day for lacing, then I rest. One day for truing, then I go to bed frustrated. On the third day, it all comes together. All this, and I use Sheldon Brown's step by step too.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Wings on 3/23/2001 at 12:39:13 AM
I love to sit down on the floor in front of the TV with a shallow box lid that has a hole in the center for the hub to rest in. I enjoy it. Must be like nitting. The first time I did it I copied a wheel also. Now I keep searching for the ultimate way in ease and speed. A half hour program and I am riding on it!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Wings on 3/23/2001 at 12:46:25 AM
Selection of the proper length of spokes has taken time and sometimes I have to change the length. Now, however there are great sites that have spoke length formulas where you input 4 items of data and you have the length. Sheldon, if I remember right had such a link. Also, I found the actual spoke length formula and have done the calculation by hand - with a regular calculator. Measurements are important! I use two spokes threaded on both ends with a nipple in the middle and on one end through the rim to determine the diameter of the rim. There is a tool for this, but I do not have it. I love the mathematics! It is great to see the end result come together as a wheel! Wow, I have got to build another wheel!!!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by cj on 3/23/2001 at 4:57:20 AM
I'd like to hear more about doing it with home-made tools. I can see how you could use a fork at a truing stand, but can you say more about the dishing tool?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Cal on 3/23/2001 at 5:30:18 AM
Ditto on the D.I.Y. tools. I'd like to build my own wheels to save money and would like to do it without buying expensive tools.

   RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Keith on 3/23/2001 at 6:17:21 AM
I agree with Wings about spoke length -- that really crucial. If you're rebuilding, and have old spokes, and they were correct (did not poke out of the nipples in the rim -- too long, or have more than a few threads showing --- too short). If not, there are calculators on the web and a good LBS will have a shop manual with charts. Lacing doesn't require a stand. Truing can be done on the bike using the brake pads as guides. Go SLOW on truing when you start out -- half turns of the right nipples then spin the wheel. The idea is fairly high, but even tension. Buy a set of the color coded Park spoke wrenches -- they aren't expensive.

   RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Dale Oswald on 3/23/2001 at 8:31:19 AM
Homemade dishing tools? (1) A reasonably good fork (2) a reasonably good frame.

Put the wheel in, note the spacings from the fork or frame, remove and reinstall the other way around, note difference. Voila.

   RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Randy on 3/23/2001 at 11:13:37 AM
If you're lacing a Sturmey-Archer hub, I have a transcription (with the illustrations) of the old Raleigh booklet on my website at http://www.rickadee.net/'zephyrus along with a scan of the Raleigh spoke length chart.

(Replace the ' in the link above with a tilde. The software here filters out tildes for some reason.)

   RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Brian Hayes on 3/23/2001 at 5:44:10 PM
A loop of string tautly stretched diametrically across each side of the rim (you will have to snake it around the spokes) will cross the hub and give a good visual indication of dishing.

Brian

   Forty Bucks posted by Oscar on 3/23/2001 at 6:28:00 PM
Forty dollars will buy you an inexpensive truing stand. Before I bought it, I used a fork mounted onto a Schwinn upright handlebar as a pedistal. I used carefully placed lentghs of solder as guides. It seem cool, but everything was guesswork. The truing stand has saved half the time that my Hucklebarry Finn stand required.

   RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Greg Groth on 3/23/2001 at 10:25:26 PM
If you want to learn more about wheel building than you thought possible to learn, get this book:
http://www.avocet.com/wheelbook/wheelbook.html

As far as lacing wheels, work on a surface that allows the axle to drop down. I use a Black and Decker workmate which has a number of pre-drilled holes that allow the axle to drop down and make wheels easier to build as it holds the hub upright. Sheldon's site suggests installing the spokes as you're building the wheel, I've found it easier to put all my spokes in the hub before lacing, but you have to make sure you have the spokes installed the way you want them as moving the spokes with one side of the wheel built up can be a pain. As far as a dishing tool, I would mount them on the bike and use the frame or fork. Most of the frames on production bikes I've seen have been off enough to require a little tweaking to get the wheels centered with the brake pivot. Unfortunately the easiest way to increase speed on lacing wheels is practice, practice, practice, & patience. Wheelbuilding used to frustrate me to no end, now I find it one of the most enjoyable parts of bike repair. I still marvel at the fact that I can assemble a structure with a weight of under 5 pounds that can transport my fat butt down the road.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Wheel lacing posted by Wings on 3/24/2001 at 12:57:10 AM
At first, I would lace the wheel and take it to a bike shop to have it trued.
After a couple of times doing that I used an old fork as mentioned above to true the wheel. You just keep bringing the spokes tighter until it is true and also pay attention to up and down bob!
After a while I got a trueing stand (Park) and it is great. I use it all the time.
Yes, the red park spoke tool is the one I use the most. Also there are some metal wheels with all the nipple sizes around the circumference that will make it cheaper.
Get an old used bike book and it will give you instructions. Instructions sometimes are not to clear.
I located a bike shop that can cut and press the threads on the spokes with one motion on a machine. For unusual 20 inch wheel lacing I will get the spokes from them. Sit in my truck and lace it until I know I have the right size.
If the spoke length is wrong they can cut me all new spokes on the spot.
A lot of shops do not carry a lot of the spoke lenghts.
I know one guy that uses longer nipples and that helps give it a little room for error.
If anyone has what they consider the best method, please make it available!
It would be interesting to see other ways of lacing.
My method is not all written up as I spent an entire three days lacing a wheel over and over again by all the methods
I could find and then I combined the best parts and I follow that. It was a rainy weekend so it was a lot of fun.

   RE:MISC: Wheel lacing posted by Mark R on 3/25/2001 at 5:23:53 PM
This is NOT the diffinative method, but it works OK, and (hopefully) is quick to explain.
Buy good quality spokes from a good shop, good spokes all have the same number of threads that start in exactly the same spot. They should be able to get the right length/s for you if you bring in your rim and hub. I have a formula for figuring spoke length, I'll look for it and post it later.
Lightly lube the threats with some good lubricant like wd-40 or something.After you lace the wheel( you can copy an already built wheel, but make sure you start with the first spoke-hole next to the valve hole), screw down each and every nipple till there are exactly 6 threads showing and all the screw driver slots run the same direction( the nips will be very loose, that's what you want). Tighten every nipple,one at a time, starting at the valve hole,1/2 turn, going around the rim till you've tightened every one 1/2 turn.Repeat this process till all spokes are only just getting tight and there are no longer threads showing( all threads should be in the nipple). You can check the "trueness" of the wheel now and true it easily at this point. After you true the wheel, continue tightening the spokes 1/4 turn one at a time till they are all well tightened, but don't OVER do it! They needn't be rock hard, immovably tightened! There needs to be some flex available or the wheel may baddly deform if you break a spoke.True the wheel again and if it's a rear wheel, make sure you dish the wheel using some of the other recomendations from others on this site. If you have or rig a truing stand, loosen all the spokes opposite the side you want to move the rim, and tighten those on the side you are moving the rim to 1 turn, repeating untill the rim is centered between the sides( you can reverse the wheel in the stand untill it is centered in either direction, or buy a guage.
After the wheel is ready you will have to ride it for a ride or two, and then retrue it as they often go slightly out of true as the spokes "seat" themselves.
Sound difficult? It is, but when you learn to do it right, it makes you feel real good to be riding around on your"own" wheels.
GOOD LUCK!

   RE:RE:MISC: Wheel lacing posted by Wings on 3/25/2001 at 11:14:14 PM
I have taken a narrower type screwdriver and ground down each side of the blace leaving a rectanle in the center wide enough and long enough to: 1. Fit in the nipple and hold the nipple for insertion in rims with recessed nipples. 2. The groulnd down portion of the screwdriver should also fit in the nipple so the nipple can be turned.
This allows the screwdriver to insert and hold nipples in difficult to get to rims. It also allows the screwdriver to be kept from slipping as the nipple is tightened. It also allows the screwdriver to slip at the point where the nipples reaches a certain point on the spoke which allows for initial uniform easy tightening of the spokes.