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Archived: English Roadsters







AGE / VALUE:   It's not a 4 speed hub but an A.W.3 SPEED posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/31/2001 at 11:25:47 AM
E- bay item 1185712919 "Hercules Sturmey 4 speed bicycle hub junk"

This hub is not a four speed, but a standard 3 speed with a threaded driver. it loooks used too. Hercules did not copy and sell the 4 speed hubs. Noyt any of the Sturmey-Archer 4 speed hubs came from factory in Hercules badged hub shells. This has a 4 on the outside but that is a code of some type, but it doesn't mean this is a 4 speed hub.







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by: bicyclepriest on 8/31/2001 at 8:46:28 AM
how's it going friends. have not posted anything in awhile. I
need information on lacing rims. I'm trying to get that
"burnt" dl-1 tourist that I talked about back in April
on the road. It is going to be my super deluxe "beater". Since
the brake system is shot and I do not want to replace it due
to the cost, I am changing the 1978 AW-3 hub to a 1994 AWC
three speed coaster brake. Problem is that the rim is 40 spokes
and the AWC is a 36 spoke hub. I know that I read something
on sheldon site about still being able to lace up a wheel with
hole differences such as these. Have any of you all encountered
this and what steps did you take to solve the problem?
thanx in advance

bicycle "estudiante de sheldon" priest


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/31/2001 at 11:38:02 AM
Ooh, if it was in a fire, I would not try to get it back on the road. It's toast.
When I was confronted with a diffrent hole drilling problem, I always went crazy searching for a diffrent hub shell drilling or a diffrent drilling pattern rim. It was my excuse to drive all over, make all those calls, root thru all those shops, call all those fellow collector pals.I have never seen that wheel lacing info on Sheldon's site. I must have missed it. However, if anybody could work out a wheel lacing trick to get around this problem it would be Sheldon.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by Jeff on 8/31/2001 at 6:48:21 PM
I believe that the shell of the AW 3-speed and the sjell of the AWC are interchangeable. Take the AWC internals out of the 36-hole shell and insert them into the 40-hole AW shell.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by Warren on 9/2/2001 at 11:54:11 AM
I have three or four old rims that would suit this bike in my basement. The cost of shipping a rim from Canada is not prohibitive but just plain stupid in my opinion. The 28 X 1 1/2 in westwood rims that were made and sold here in Canada are slightly smaller than the Raleigh Roadster counterpart...622 mm vs 635 mm. Fortunately, this size also fits 700 c tires so there is a huge selection of tires available for them. I would seriously check out all of the local bikes shops in your area. If you can't find anything, you could just go with a wider 700c rim, the same as those those found on hybrids. You don't need a westwood rim because you're not usind the rod brakes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by Warren on 9/1/2001 at 5:38:51 AM
I think it would be a lot easier to source a new/used 36 hole rim. I've built a few wheels and it would be a real challenge skipping four spokes on a rim, determining spoke lengths, dishing and just about everything else.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by bicyclepriest on 9/1/2001 at 6:26:31 PM
thanx for the quick replies. Mr. Robin, it was not actually
in what one would call a fire. In the April thread, myself
and this group concluded that one of the previous owner used
an archaic way to remove paint. Something about did the flame
quickly into a 55 gallon barrel of liquid fire. Also, sheldon
did not an article about the odd lacing in question. He was talking
about one of his bikes in those "biographies". I remember it being about
a 28 hole hub and a 32 hole rim? can't remember what bike sheldon was
talking about. Warren: 28 in rims are not common place, yet? I really want
to get this super deluxe rollin'. A dl-1 tourist is a rare bird around these
"parts".
thanx

bicyclepriest

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by bicyclepriest on 9/1/2001 at 6:34:04 PM
Sorry about the missing words in my reply. The bike was
quickly DIPPED into a 55 gallon drum of liquid fire. Sheldon
did not WRITE an article about the odd lacing in question.
bicyclepriest

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by sam on 9/2/2001 at 6:23:56 AM
Some single speeds have 40 hole hubs,if one speed would work for you.raleigh used single speed coasters on manny of it's B-grade girls bikes.Also New Departure made a 40 hole hub,and you could add the two speed kit(if you could find one)---sam

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   dl-1 tourist posted by Geoff on 9/5/2001 at 6:10:39 PM
The current 28-inch-wheel bikes made in India have, I think 36-hole rims. Correct me if I am wrong, somebody who knows. Is there a source for parts for these machines in this country?
Good luck!






AGE / VALUE:   Still Looking For Info On An Armstrong. posted by: Corrigan on 8/30/2001 at 3:40:01 PM
I posted a message a few days ago but I had no luck with it.
I recently purchased a red 3 speed english bike.
The logo's on the bike read- ARMSTRONG.
There is also a metal tag on the frame that reads-
"Armstrong- Genuine English Lightweight"
I can't find any information on this bike anywhere including this site.
Are there any experts out there that can help me?
Anything would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Still Looking For Info On An Armstrong. posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/30/2001 at 5:51:43 PM
Your Armstrong was likely made by Raleigh somewhere in the 1950's thru the 1960's. Then Raleigh stoped all the other names and just sold Raleigh branded bikes. This was a name that Raleigh put on their line of b-grade bikes. Raleigh swallowed up a lot of smaller companies and used the names. Armstrong was likely a small company that Raleigh bought up. I'm not sure if this was the case with Armstrong as it was with other names. Phillips was a large company and they were seperate until a merger in the 1960's. Humber was bought up in the 1930's The same with Rudge and a whole host of others. If you were a distributor and you wanted to order enough bikes Raleigh would badge it up with any name you supplied.
This bike you have was made in Nottingham, England by Raleigh. It uses Raleigh's own threading pitch which is 26 T.P.I. The headset, bottombracket cups are interchangable with Raleigh bicycle parts(older) This is a good bike. Raleigh made a lot of bikes with diffrent names for a variety of reasons. Sheldon Brown has a wonderful bicycle page and he has all the names used and he gives an explanation. go to http://www.Sheldonbrown.com and look thru until you find it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Still Looking For Info On An Armstrong. posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/30/2001 at 5:54:46 PM
Where the name Armstrong came from and the history behind it I do not know right now.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Phillips posted by: Eduardo L Pinto Jr on 8/30/2001 at 12:24:41 PM
Some weeks ago, I´ve post a message in this forum about Phillips logomarks. I found a .GIF image and now I have a plotable .CDR file. If you want a copy, mail me...







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    posted by: Rob on 8/30/2001 at 10:57:31 AM
I recently acquired for virtually nothing (CDN$25), an old ‘Super Course’. It looked rather sad, but didn’t actually require much to get it up and running. Everything was straight and in relatively good condition. Lots of paint scratches, though. I’m trying to figure out what year it would have been built and what its original configuration would have been. As best as I can tell, checking various websites including ‘Retro Raleighs’, it’s early 1970’s. Here’s what it has:

1) Six sprocket freewheel. (Type ?)
2) Crank is SR with SR (Japan) Motobecane cranks and KKT pedals. The BB has ‘Brampton, Made in England’ stamped on it and this looks relatively fresh compared to the other components.
3) Derailleurs – rear is Suntour GT Luxe; front Shimano. Shifters are Suntour and are mounted on the stem rather than the downtube. (If the six sprocket freewheel and derailleurs are upgrades it must have been done a long time age, as they all look well settled in.)
4) Wheels – rims are Mavic alloy of some type. Front hub is Shimano; rear hub is Suzue.
5) Brakes appear to be original (Weinmann 750 / Vainquer 999 etc center pulls with white Carlton hoods in excellent condition.
6) Stem (GB) and handlebars Type?) appear to be original. The green tape has been covered over with black type, but appears to be in place underneath condition at this time unknown.
7) Frame color is bronze green with ‘Super Course’ written on the top tube; Raleigh’ on the downtube, and nothing written on the chain stays.
8) The forks have legible Carlton decals on them.
9) The serial number does not seem to conform with anything indicated in the ‘Retro Raleighs’ information. There is a six-digit number (no letters) stamped on the left rear drop-out, and the letters ‘TT’ stamped underneath the bottom bracket.

Could someone tell me how the bike would have been setup when it was new and also what type of tubing it has. Presumably some or most tubes are double butted 531. I got the bike in Canada, but, of course, have no idea where it was purchased new. Presumably in Canada, but who knows…. Would this bike have come from Nottingham, or could it have been built in Canada?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    posted by Dale Oswald on 8/31/2001 at 5:32:47 AM
Six speeds and Japaneese derailleurs were introduced in the mid 70s, around 1976. This model had Simplex and five speed freewheel in 1974.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    posted by Oscar on 9/2/2001 at 7:00:36 PM
If the heron badge says The Raleigh Nottingham, it was made in Nottingham. (I think all Carltons were made in Nott.) Otherwise, other models were made in Canada and Taiwan.

I think your bike was originally made in the 70's and had new cranks, ders, shifters, etc added later on.






AGE / VALUE:   help posted by: tcozad on 8/29/2001 at 3:53:06 PM
I recently purchased a Raleigh Sports and I need any available information someone might have. According to the serial number it's from 1924 or 25, but the man I bought it from says he knows the original owner and she bought it new in the late 50's. It has a SA hub that has a date of Dec. 1972 on it. This is a very puzzling bike. It also has a twist shiter. It is in excellent condition, but I can't figure it's age. Any help would be appreciated.







MISC:   Raleigh Stow Away -- 20 inch folder posted by: Wings on 8/29/2001 at 12:32:25 AM
I picked up a "Stow Away" today. It looks very much like my other 20 inch folder only with narrower tires and narrower fenders. It looks older than a regular 20 inch folder. Is it? What can you tell me about the "Stow Away"? It has a 3 speed SA hub (I have not checked the date yet).


   RE:MISC:   Raleigh Stow Away -- 20 inch folder posted by Paul Aslanides on 9/2/2001 at 7:06:35 AM
"Stowaway" was the name of one particular F framed Moulton,
from the sixties. It had a hinge in the main frame tube, unlike its bigger brothers, which also had the F frame - but rigid - and 16 X 1 3/8 (349) tyres. So if you have a Moulton Stowaway, you will find lots of info. on Tony Hadland's website, and/or search for moulton. If you have a Raleigh folder, see Sheldon Brown's site.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by: Keith on 8/28/2001 at 12:11:28 PM
Old news, but I noticed when I picked up the latest Bicycling (yes, I'm embarassed to admit it, but I sometimes pick up that shameless advertisement masquerading as a magazine), and it said that mountain bike guru Gary Fisher is advocating the use of 29" tires (very big 700c tires) on mountain bikes, citing their use on older bikes to smooth out the bumps. The current 26" wheel on mtbs are an accident of history, as mtbs evolved from old Schwinns that were 26" wheel kids' bikes. Those of us who've been riding roadsters have been aware of this quality for quite some time. And I'd bet 3rd world Raleigh clone 28" roadsters see more off road use than all of the mountain bikes in the U.S. But I wonder how 29" wheels would affect other aspects of handling, since larger wheels would, I'd think, require a longer wheelbase and therefore result in a bike that would not steer as quickly. Any comments?


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by Art on 8/28/2001 at 4:23:51 PM
Coker tire makes a 36"in wheeled bike with a 51" wheelbase. It's a monster cruiser with fenders, leather seat, even a bouncing hula girl for the front fender! It's about $850 for the high end model. Tires are $125, tubes $35. I saw a sold one at my local bike store. For me, it was cool in a "I never saw a bike like that before" way, but you feel sort of dwarfed by the big tires and its got sort of a point and shoot feel to it. Has anyone built a 28"in off road custom bike...like turning a Tourist into a mountain bike? That might be an interesting project.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by Wayne on 8/28/2001 at 6:07:47 PM
Hi,
That is an interesting comment, especially since I just got
back from a trip to the Netherlands. While I was there I had
a very good look at their style of bicycling (and rode a few
Dutch bikes).
There are next to NO mountain bikes in the Netherlands at all,
and bike shops (which are everywhere including Train stations)
sell mostly bikes relatively equivalent to what we would call
an English roadster. There are a few differences, the most
obvious being the frame geometry (the seat post is angled much
further back, giving much more of a "seated" riding position)
and the universal adoption of 28" wheels (or the metric
equivalent). Every bike has these and the tires are about 1 1/2"
or 1 5/8" wide. Seems like these guys know something!
FYI this middle aged Canadian managed to pass and stay ahead
of a local rider on a modern road bike using one of these
Dutch machines. To make it worse I was wearing my "Canada EH!"
T shirt at the time.
Sometimes things just go in your favour!
Wayne


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by Mike on 8/29/2001 at 6:04:17 AM
Here it comes. The marketeers are prepping you for the next major mountain bike fad. Watch the mags for the coming flood of gotta-have, over priced "super" wheel ads just in time for Xmas.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by sam on 8/29/2001 at 7:32:15 AM
28s might smooth out the bumps but wouldn't they make the taco wheel problem worse?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by sam on 8/29/2001 at 7:34:00 AM
28s might smooth out the bumps but wouldn't they make the taco wheel problem worse?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by JOEL on 8/29/2001 at 2:15:50 PM
Sounds like another evolutionary dead end. The "hybred" bikes with larger rims were short lived and useless on the trail. The best way to smooth out the bumps is to
RIDE FASTER...

BTW Art, have you seen Coker's Mini Cruiser ?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/29/2001 at 5:28:17 PM
I took a spin on a new bike with the 29 inch wheels and it was great.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Big Hoops posted by Mark R. on 8/28/2001 at 1:44:23 PM
I believe this idea came about a few years back when Fisher was using 700b x 38 mm tyres on some of his bikes. I think the idea is totally sound, since on motorcycles, larger front wheels do in fact smooth out rough surfaces. Naturally a larger wheel radius is going to roll right over a lot of smaller bumps and ripples in the road. However, larger wheels mean more weight and all the problems that come with it(especially when the weight is distributed in the tire area of the wheels!). Just jump on a 28 in. roadster and take a ride. Obviously larger wheels smooth out the ride! Doesn't someone make bikes with 36 in. wheels?






AGE / VALUE:   wayfarer flyer posted by: brandon on 8/28/2001 at 6:43:04 AM
I am need ing some advice as to where I can find some information on an old bicycle I have. It is a Wayfarer Flyer made in London England and was marketed by Western Auto Stores. I don't know if it was marketed over here or over in england. Anyway, it also says Western Flyer on it and has the Western Auto symbol on the front of the bike and the bicycle looks to be very old. I have had
absolutely no luck going through sites on the web for information about the bike. If you could help me or know someone who could I'd appreciate it!
Thanks,

Brandon Lahmann
Sullivan, Missouri


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   wayfarer flyer posted by sam on 8/28/2001 at 6:55:57 AM
Most likely a raliegh made bike.I've seen raleigh wesrern flyers before,also raleigh built Huffy clubman's Western auto contracted all their bikes,so you'll have to compair it to regular brands to ID it--sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   wayfarer flyer posted by Art on 8/28/2001 at 8:41:26 AM
I have a Raleigh badged roadster labeled a Wayfarer. It's a pretty standard three speed. If you have any specific questions about that bike, perhaps I can help. I have no use, except for parts, for the bike.






AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by: zipper on 8/28/2001 at 4:35:36 AM
Are there any collectors out there with knowledge of Italian bikes? I recently picked-up a Legnano Brevettata folding three speed with 20x1.75 Pirelli tires with many Campy components. It also says "Emilio Bozzi - Milano" on the rear fender. Could this be a person or place??
Along with it came a middleweight bike with a head badge that says Brillantea. This bike has 28x1-3/4 Dunlops, New Departure coaster, bell, odometer attached to the lower fork, and finally a lamp that is stamped "Aprilla". The bike says "Napoli" which I'm to guess is its birthblace.
If you can help me learn more about either of these bikes, please drop me a line and we'll chat!!

P.S. Sorry to step on toes here in the English Roadster section, I thought maybe Euro followers would help best with these.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/28/2001 at 5:45:15 PM
The Italians were (are) passonate about bicycles and bicycle racing.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by zipper on 8/29/2001 at 11:21:21 AM
Thanks for the replies. I'll look at the middle weight again this evening to see what other info I can get. The spoke count idea interests me. Are there any other web sites or avenues I can explore to learn from? I plan on keeping these for my collection since they both have unique features and appearances. Would it benefit this site if I contributed pictures of these two? Until tommorrow.....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by zipper on 8/29/2001 at 11:24:09 AM
Thanks for the replies. I'll look at the middle weight again this evening to see what other info I can get. The spoke count idea interests me. Are there any other web sites or avenues I can explore to learn from? I plan on keeping these for my collection since they both have unique features and appearances. Would it benefit this site if I contributed pictures of these two? Until tommorrow.....

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by Winston Churchhill on 8/28/2001 at 5:56:58 AM
Kindly get that Mussolini-loving mound of Fascist totalitarianism out of the English Roadster forum, please! Thank you very much indeed!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by sam on 8/28/2001 at 6:49:57 AM
Most euro.countrys produce a roadester bike for general use.An Italian roadester with new departure coaster,Wonder is the rear hub original?How manny spokes does it have--most english ones have 40.Does it have a front brake too?Keep us informed on what you find out on this bike--sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by Art on 8/28/2001 at 9:22:51 AM
Legnano is a sought after maker of vintage lightweights. Most companies, Bianchi, Mercier, Raleigh etc. made folders or one kind or another.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by zipper on 8/30/2001 at 7:14:12 AM
I checked the roadster and it has 36 spokes in front and back. I did notice that the rims don't match, so as Sam mentioned, I believe the rear rim with the Departure model "D" hub was probably added on during its life.
Also I found over the internet that Legnano is actually a city in Italy. Legnano has produced some spectacular road bikes through history.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Italian bikes........ posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 9/1/2001 at 12:04:04 PM
The Legnano name wound up on a line of childrens bikes. Some important, dedicated and talented bike people have valiently tried to bring it back recently,but to no avail.






AGE / VALUE:   E- bay item #1184069911 posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/27/2001 at 5:29:48 PM
It's pink, they painted it pink. At the factory they did this!
Note the chaincase, it is open on one side.







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rugde Bicycles posted by: Marcos Feitosa on 8/27/2001 at 4:12:18 PM
Someone could help me to identify a Rudge Bicycle? I think that it major caracteristic is two horizontals bars, that is not common in a Rudge bicycle.
Another caracteristic is that the rear gear was from Tchecoloswakia and presents the following words: 04 - Velo -58.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rugde Bicycles posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/27/2001 at 5:09:47 PM
This is known as a double top tube model. Raleigh bought up Humber and Rudge and all of these were made in a double top tube model. Did Rudge make a double top tube model frame before they were bought up by Raleigh? I don't know, but it is likely. Good luck with your project.






MISC:   Whitworth? posted by: Albert on 8/27/2001 at 2:28:21 PM
I had occassion to adjust the seat height on one of my Raleigh Sports prior to club ride recently. AsI was turning the nut with a box-end whitworth size wrench, it occured to me that most folks just do not possess wrenches in this now odd-ball standard. You see, whitworth is not metric and not S.A.E.; it is a separate and distinct standart used by the British motor and cycle industry well into the 60's. As an auto mechanic I needed wrenches in this size- standard to repair the woeful collection of MG's, Mini's, Jaguars, and the occassional Morris whose poor reliability made for a guaranteed income for many in the auto repair trade.


   RE:RE:MISC M.G.midget craziness posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/28/2001 at 5:28:23 PM
A few years back, I met an interesting character. He was a Japanese fellow and he would take out the origonal motor and transmission of an M.G. and drop in a Honda motor with an automatic transmission. All this fit under the hood of the M.G. The car was origonal except where it counted(under the hood) and was dependable and an automatic too. It was the best of both worlds, but I told him he was destroying the origonality/character by not having the stick shift. He looked at mine and asked "Does it always diesel like that?"
Mine was totally restored before I bought it and immediately after I got it home the circlip in the transmission broke so I had to skip 2nd gear all the time. The shop people told me it was a dream to work on and it was a lovely car. They got to see it all the time, I worked if off and learned a lot. I remember the cute girl next to me, she leaned over and told me "You're leaving parts back there in the street" I sold it, making a $100.00 profit. The buyers were a very rude, nasty and trying couple. They were the 38th party to come look and they paid my price.
Today,I like my obsessions to be reliable. The shops, the days wandering in a transe thru the junkyards, the people, the catalogs,pals from work with borrowed tools, I waited forever for that locking gas cap. I got pulled over and waited by the squad car alone while the officer took it about for a spin. He tossed the keys and gave me a warning(no ticket)and left. Japanese car companies copied the British Leyland cars and I got to see some of these. I love the wooden dashboards in these cars.

   RE:MISC:   Whitworth? posted by Keith on 8/28/2001 at 10:05:46 AM
Locally (central Ohio), British car collectors are numerous and very active. We had an MG ralley here that drew people from all over. They drove down High street in pairs and it stretched for miles. One of my friends restored an ash-framed Morgan, and even went to the factory in England when he traveled there for a test drive. He and another friend also have Minis. It's an irrational obsession: they freely admit to the lack of dependability.

   RE:MISC:   Whitworth? posted by Geoff on 8/31/2001 at 9:29:45 AM
I refuse to concede that English cars are unreliable. If they are maintained properly, and if the bits that fall off are replaced promptly, they will often go on happily for decades. I own a 1960 MGA which I have driven summers since 1979, and it has only left me stranded once (when the rear axle bearing carrier broke after a particularly rough upshift), back in 1980. My daily driver in the summer is a 1963 Jaguar 3.8. It always starts, stops when I want it to, is very fast and stunningly beautiful. Just like my old DL-1. Is it reliable? If I keep after the maintenance (I do), keep it clean and lubricated and replace things when they wear out, it is absolutely reliable. British cars become unreliable when they are treated like "normal" cars; just drive it and ignore the maintenance schedule--which is prodigious, I will admit--and it will definitely break down. But do the maintenance, and it will be a rewarding machine to own.
Having said that, I will freely admit that an English 3-speed bike is by far the more reliable and trouble-free contraption. Plus you can bring it in and work on it next to the woodstove on a cold evening. Just try that with a Jag!
For Whitworth fasteners (which are inch sizes, but in 64ths, so they do not correspond with most common SAE wrench sizes; one exception is 11/32", which is right for rod brake parts and some other brake fittings on cable-braked Raleighs. Use a 6-point 1/4" drive socket for a frim grip)I have a special Whitworth adjustable wrench. Same as the one I use for metric and SAE, by the way.
Enjoy the old British machines!
Geoff Rogers
Daily rides: 1966 Dunelt, 28" wheels, rod brakes and 1935(?) Raleigh Record Ace, rough but rideable!

   RE:MISC:   Whitworth? posted by Ian on 9/1/2001 at 5:32:47 AM
There must be some sort of demand for Whitworth spanners out there. I just went shopping for a set of Ring and Open end spanners in cycle sizes for an American enthusiast I got chatting with through this page. Here in New Zealand I found sets ranging fron Taiwanese made ones at US$15.00 a set to German made ones at US$300! I am sending him what appear to be reasonable quality Japanese made ones for US$27.50 for 5 spanners so they are still available. I also have found some cheap ball-ended type bike spanners with about four sizes of bike nut sizes on each end so don't despair - we have the technology!






AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by: dave_in_madison on 8/27/2001 at 10:35:34 AM
I picked up a Royce Union English 3 speed at a garage sale over the weekend. The standard Sturmey Archer fittings including a TCW hub. I was not aware of Royce Union as a maker of 3 speeds ... unfortunately it's a womens frame and in pretty rought shape.

Re the TCW hub, Sheldon's site lists this as having an unreliable coaster brake ... like, how unreliable? Anyone have direct experience with these?


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by Albert on 8/28/2001 at 1:47:17 PM
Brian, if found your comments of interest; but,in the interest of those who use this site as an information source in their quest for cycling knowledge I must amend two of your contentions. These are: 1. The F&S 3-speed hub is NOT a SA clone as you indicated; 2. The SA S3C WILL continue to provide back-pedal braking even in the "no forward gear position". Also, as I indicated in a posting of a few days ago, the SA hub can loose its adjustment suddenly and unexpectedly for perhaps a half-dozen reasons; so, one can never say that SA's shortcommings " do not present much of a problem". Cheers from Philadelphia!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/28/2001 at 5:35:24 PM
Have fun Sheldon! but whatever you do, just don't home paint it with a brush.
Can you put thumb shifters on this bike? It will be interesting to see how you change it to suit your taste.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by sam on 8/28/2001 at 5:38:50 PM
Sheldon"out of the closet" Brown,It's good your able to admit you've had these tendencies for a long time.Just remember it's OK to go both ways.And if I had one of those M8000s I'd join you!---sam"ask Dr.Ruth"lingo

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/27/2001 at 11:14:15 AM
I never use the coaster brake hubs myself. But I believe the rate of braking depends on what gear the hub is in, with this one and that is not too good. It was not a good system. They went to a Mark 1, Mark 2, Mark 3 in an attempt to improve it. Albert can tell you about this hub. Scroll down in the Roadsters section and e- mail him or do a search of past posts in the database here.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by Albert on 8/27/2001 at 2:27:36 PM
Dave, Christopher's caution is well placed. All versions of the TCW can loose braking ability when in 2nd or 3rd gear. This occurs when the indicator chain/rod looses its adjustment and this can happen unexpectedly if the fulcrum stop moves, if the the cable stretches, if the adjustment barrel unwinds, or if the rear wheel shifts slightly in the dropout slots. I would suggest the you replace the TCW's internals with those from SA's later and inproved 3-speed coaster, the S3C. The S3C' internals are a "drop-in fit"

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by Sheldon Brown on 8/27/2001 at 4:30:04 PM
Royce Union was not a "maker of 3-speeds" or of anything else, as far as I know. Royce Union is an importing/trading company, not a manufacturer. Some "Royce Union" 3-speeds were Raleighs, others were not.

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/english for information on how to tell Raleigh products from other English stuff.

Sheldon "Say No To Coaster Brakes" Brown

P.S. I fear that I risk being cast out of this august body, but honesty compels me to reveal that I have recently bought an Evil Bicycle...

See: http://sheldonbrown.com/m8000.html for the Awful Truth...

It was nice knowing you guys...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by Ben on 8/27/2001 at 6:59:11 PM
I'm not even much a fan of this type of bike but that M8000 is pretty darned cool.

   tell me what you think about that bike posted by gmain@net-port.com on 8/27/2001 at 10:28:24 PM
I dislike all of them things, BUT>> does it Squeak? ride like mush? does some of your pedal effort wind up sponged into your shocks? BTW Sheldon, i also have a 30s Elgin, its a Sears Fully Equipped 1936 model. very cool peice, the Bike should have an Air Cooled Elgin coaster brake on it.
heck i have all types here.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by Brian Hayes on 8/28/2001 at 7:42:59 AM
I think one has to keep in mind that coaster brake 3 speed hubs, including "clones" like the Fichtel & Sachs Torpedo models can all have the "no brake" position problem. However, once adjusted properly, these shortcomings do not present much of a problem. Remember, the "no brake" position is also the "no drive" position, and you should really be relying on the front brake more often anyway. See Sheldon's comments on braking on his website.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by dave on 8/28/2001 at 8:38:18 AM
Thanks for all the info ... I don't even trust the coaster brake on my S3C hub on my daily rider which is a Raleigh Sports (but I do like coaster brakes!).

Sheldon ... are you putting a Dynohub on your M8000?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Royce Union 3 speed & TCW hub posted by dave on 8/28/2001 at 8:49:22 AM
P.S. I assumed this was not a Raleigh frame because of some stamping on the headtube I had not seen before ...
I am trying to recall the wording, but there were two phrases (above the headbadge), one was Precision Engineered and I don't recall the other.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Looking for information on Armstrong posted by: Corrigan on 8/26/2001 at 7:28:24 PM
I just purchased a red three speed bike. Theres a piece of metal on the frame that reads- "Armstrong-Genuine English Lightweight".There are also a few decals that read Armstrong on different parts of the bike.I can't find any information on this bike anywhere.Can anyone help me.
Thanks.