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Archived: English Roadsters







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Henry Ford Bicycle Reply.. posted by: Brian on 11/10/2002 at 1:04:03 PM
When I was in LA six years ago, I visited a traveling bicycle exhibit on the UCLA campus (Westwood) and among the super collection of bikes on display was a pix of Henry Ford riding that same shaft-drive Columbia, and better yet, right next to the pix-the actual bicycle. It was a real beauty too! I remember they would not allow cameras inside(same policy as the wonderful Getty Museum in LA)-or I would have taken pictures.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Henry Ford Bicycle Reply.. posted by Chris on 11/10/2002 at 8:24:32 PM
I'm delighted to hear that I am wrong. Good, the bike survived then.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Henry Ford Bicycle Reply.. posted by daniel on 11/10/2002 at 9:38:44 PM
do you have any pitchers of your bick becouse i have a bick but i do not know what it is.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Lawrence's bicycle posted by: Dewane on 11/10/2002 at 4:50:56 AM
Hello to the epicyclic community.

I've been studying the life of T.E. Lawrence, otherwise known as "Lawrence of Arabia".

Thomas Edward was born in 1888 in Wales. His family lived in Oxford. In some biographies I've read, they speak of a bicycle he rode, the earliest mention of it being 1906.

According to one biography "A touch of genius" by Malcolm Brown, "Lawrence's bicycle was a specially built machine, with dropped handlebars and, reputedly, the first 3-speed gear at the Oxford High School."

A few questions to the knowledgable members of the group:

- Was there a company besides Sunbeam that produced 3 speed bikes in 1906? The Sunbeam is a good choice, his father was "toffs" and could definitely afford it.

- I was interested to read that he rode with dropped handlebars in 1906. Is this unusual, or just the "boy racer" of the early 1900's? As motorcycle people know, Lawrence is more famous for riding the Brough Superior, even now probably the most famous and expensive brand of motorbike.

Thanks

Dewane


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Lawrence's bicycle posted by Chris on 11/10/2002 at 8:27:34 PM
Wonderful, interesting, healthy and fun.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Lawrence's bicycle posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/11/2002 at 1:00:46 AM
Funny, I just saw my favourite "Lawrence of Arabia" last week in the cinema: the 40th Anniversary special print. I reckon I've see this film at least 40 times!

Now, I have a photo of T.E.L. on an obviously new and top-of-the-line club machine dated 26 February 1935. Celluoid mudguards and bakelite covered North Road handlebars no less and lamp on the front fork (of course!). But no discerning brand markings. I kinda suspect it's a B.S.A., the absolute best of the pre-war club machines. According to the caption, T.E.L. upon discharge from the R.A.F. early in '35 "cycled around Southern England".

If you'd fancy a scan of this pix, let me know and I'll send you one.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Lawrence's bicycle posted by Dewane on 11/10/2002 at 5:42:47 AM
From what I've read on the Web, the Sunbeam didn't start producing 3-speed bikes until 1907 before that they used a 2-speed epicyclic gear for the front sprocket. This means that Lawrence's bike couldn't have been a Sunbeam.

Anybody know any bicycle works around Oxford in 1906?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Lawrence's bicycle posted by Dewane on 11/10/2002 at 4:12:39 PM
Hi, as long as I seem to be talking to myself here (and not complaining, I've learned quite a bit from this group) it's interesting how the most desirable and expensive motorcycles are British: Brough (pronounced like rough) Superior and the Vincent Black Shadow, whereas the most desirable and expensive bikes seem to be Italian (Confente).

Although I wouldn't say no to a Claude Butler, Flying Scot, Hetchins, old BSA, of course Sunbeam, Jack Taylor, etc. Quite an interesting hobby isn't it.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Lawrence's bicycle posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/14/2002 at 1:58:51 AM
Another bike that nobody knows whatever happened to it. Right? Not even surviving family probably.
If you were to tell somebody that you have Lawrence of Arabia's bicycle they would think you were nuts!
If you were to find such a thing it would be a good idea to get that in writing from the family member that sold it to you.
Do we even know where it is today?

I really tried to interest this one person I met to write the history. With my help, without my help, with somebody who would be willing to work on it. Anybody! Just get it down,I said as politely as I could. He was old and did not give a hoot about it. Snatches up the money, helps carry things out to the truck, Yes, but that scrap book? No!
Books with pictures and tons of interesting history have been lost.






AGE / VALUE:   bike buying tip posted by: sam on 11/10/2002 at 1:49:43 AM
If you haven bough a bike in say a week or so (heven forbid)be sure and take the ecno car and the wife.To be sure you find a bike you just gotta have, make sure you don't have any money so you will just have to ask her for the cash!Garrrrenteed to work.And I ask myself how can she be mad at me ---a robin hood for only $6.Bought her the lawn bench.--sam


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   bike buying tip posted by sam on 11/11/2002 at 12:57:44 AM
How right you are!My wife wants the bikes off the porch cause she's having a party soon.And Did you get your books back O.K.?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   bike buying tip posted by Ian on 11/10/2002 at 8:37:16 AM
BIKE FINDING TIP - Sam, a very wise old gentleman who had been collecting bikes for years once told that there is one certain way to find that bike you have always wanted, in immaculate condition, and at a steal of a price. How? build a new shed that is only just big enough to hold the bikes you already own! I just tried it and it works. Cheers, Ian.






WANTED:   Used front mudguard 26" black needed posted by: David Poston on 11/9/2002 at 10:36:53 PM
I'm still in want of a good used front peaked mudguard in 26" black for my Raleigh Sports to wrap up this project. Will pay cash. No major dents, rust, or heavy scratches.

I thought someone here had one a while back, but can't remember whom.

Obliged,

David.


   RE:WANTED:   Used front mudguard 26 posted by David Poston on 11/9/2002 at 10:40:21 PM
E-mail to constantine_dmitrich@yahoo.com.

David.

   RE:WANTED:   Used front mudguard 26 posted by Mucus (Mark R.) on 11/11/2002 at 5:46:58 PM
Hey! That was me. I still have it,and you are welcome to it if you still want it. You can simply pay for the postage. It looks like new, in fact, I had it mounted for only a short time. mark_r91@yahoo.com

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Used front mudguard 26 posted by David Poston on 11/11/2002 at 6:07:30 PM
Hey Mark,

You're a lifesaver. I was having the damndest time trying to fix up my old, bent up mudguard. Check your e-mail.

David

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Used front mudguard 26 posted by David Poston on 11/11/2002 at 6:07:52 PM
Hey Mark,

You're a lifesaver. I was having the damndest time trying to fix up my old, bent up mudguard. Check your e-mail.

David

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Used front mudguard 26 posted by Mark R. on 11/11/2002 at 8:30:11 PM
The deal will be done as soon as I get your address. I have painted mudguards many times, and with patience, and elbow grease they come out well. I hope you like this one, it's almost new, even has pin striping!






AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix posted by: Jon on 11/9/2002 at 10:35:25 PM
I just found a Raleigh Grand Prix S/N RE779739
It is Brown with all original Raleigh Derailers and brakes. Missing drops and saddle. Any idea what it is worth?







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by: David Poston on 11/9/2002 at 10:27:47 PM
I am trying to understand why (or if) tyres of the same size (e.g., 26" x 1 3/8") differ in actual size depending upon manufacturer.

I recently removed my original Dunlops (with original Airseal tubes, even) from my 55 Raleigh Sports to replace them with Kenda whitewalls. Why? I don't know. They still hold air, but I suppose it seemed that 47 years of use was enough to retire them.

Well, when I inflated the Kenda tube, the first thing I noticed was how much narrower it was than the Dunlop Airseal tube. And when I got the whole thing on the rim and inflated, the tyre also appeared a bit narrower, perhaps less "fat" or "balloonish." This is puzzling to me. Is Kenda just being cheap?

Is there another tyre manufacturer that makes something close to my Dunlops in terms of appearance and comfort with the traditional roadster block tread as well?

Please do enlighten me.

David


   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/10/2002 at 8:39:29 PM
I let go of a set of diffrent style all black Kendas to help out a lady customer I know who stoped in the shop. The tires they had were way to narrow.So I pulled a set from private stock for her. Yes, there are new, modern tires in this size and then there are narrow types and brands that will give a terribly harsh ride. Giant brand 26 X 1 3/8 are too narrow for most of us.
You really have to shop around within the scope of 26 X 1 3/8 E.A.3. tires that are found in different shops.
Try the hardware stores, really, go look. You should find balloonish types in 26 X 1 3/8 there. Sheldon sells a really nice tire at Harris. He offers more than one choice of brand in this same particular size. This lady's bike had the rubber rotting off in strips. If it is falling apart then it has to go.
She said, "You're not getting this one, I sold you all the rest of my bikes already." We laughed.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by Chris on 11/10/2002 at 9:02:47 PM
They sell tires here at oldroads.com and they look balloonish enough.
TI -26EGW
26x 1 3/8

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by Warren on 11/11/2002 at 12:02:44 AM
French Michelins are real tires and were spec on many English bikes...there was also an English Michelin factory. Michelins lead out peletons...Kendas are "pack fill" that get dropped at the first sprint. Not that we sprint on roadsters mind you...

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/10/2002 at 12:43:50 AM
David... I won't enlighten you but if those Dunlop tyres you removed are in fair to good condition (and the normal age cracks don't bother me), I'd like to unburden you of them... contact me privately if you want to sell them.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by sam on 11/10/2002 at 1:40:31 AM
Yes,Kenda is just being cheap.In fact even some spokes made in picific rim countries are made right and left side so the right side can be a little shorter to save material. tornels are much better tyres.I'm sure other brands are out there too.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by David Poston on 11/10/2002 at 5:40:19 AM
Peter,

After a few glances back at the old Dunlops, I can't bear parting with them. I think I will continue to use them until they give way to the scourge of time. These Kendas just don't look "right." The Dunlops evoke a certain character (perhaps simply because their age matches the cycle) like a broken-in leather shoe that one hates to stop wearing. I couldn't even bear to discard the old rim tape; these things were just built to last. The Kendas? Well, they just look too new, too cheap, too thin, "like butter that's been scraped over too much bread," if I may borrow Bilbo's phrase. Those poor Dunlops--what was I thinking?

But what are you using, may I ask, if not your old Dunlops? Surely not tyres made in Taiwan?

David

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by David on 11/10/2002 at 1:00:29 PM
You're right about the tires. I have a couple of Sports with worn-out whitewalls, and they're noticeably fatter than the more recent tires on my riders. But newer Dunlops are also skinnier. I guess that through the 60s and 70s, the width of tires declined - probably in response to generally better roads and to suggest higher speed.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/10/2002 at 4:48:00 PM
Dammit David... you are learning this hobby too fast! Of course you should keep the original Dunlops!! I wanted them for my '49 Rudge which is riding on French made Michelins. Is that better than Taiwanese Kendas? Hmmm.

P.C. Kohler, still looking for the packing case filled with NOS Dunlops

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by David Poston on 11/11/2002 at 6:44:00 AM
Sheldon sells Continentals; has anyone had any experience with those?

French made Michelins? I'll have to check that out. Are they thin like Kendas or more balloonish? In my book, a slightly wider tyre is better for a roadster--well, not American cruiser width--but not so narrow like a lightweight tyre.

This question of tyre width now brings up a curiosity of mine: How did they ever ride 26 x 1 3/8 tyres down cobblestone streets?

David

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by Michael Toohey on 11/11/2002 at 10:06:15 AM
On tyres; I was surprised at how narrow the 28x1 1/2 roadster tyres are here in China. More like 28x1 3/8 (a size which was popular on early racing bikes in my native NZ). When looking down from the bars one can clearly see the rolled edges of the big fat Westwood rims. Not nice, hard ride, definately cheap. Doesn't seem to bother the millions of Chinese cyclists mind you!

Michelin tyres...definately nice. Made a heap of fat tyres, though mainly in continental sizes I'm thinking (650B, etc). Though I THINK I recall seeing Michelin zig zags in 26 x 1 3/8. We used to use 27x 1 1/4 zig zags on our tourers.

Contis...even nicer than Michelin. I had a set of world tour fatties on my German roadster. Again, this was a European tyre size (700 by something) and you'll have to check the net for 26 x 1 3/8.

Swallow/Schwalbe a German/Tiawanese hybrid which used to be trash, but is now pretty durn good. Very popular among the touring set.

26 x 1 3/8 on cobbles? Definately! Back in late 70's, just as the 10 speed was taking off downunder, Hardman (and woman) tourists looked upon the 27 x 1 1/4 "10 speed" tyre with great suspicion. We were sure those "skinny racing tyres" wouldn't eat up the potholed "shingle" roads like our 26 x 1 3/8s. As for balloon tyres, they were dismissed as American and slow! 10 years later the MTB changed all that!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tyre tied posted by dafydd on 11/11/2002 at 2:48:41 PM
I dunno, I find that my road bike with 700X23s seems to eat up the cobblestones better than my Raleigh Sports. I think it's probably a combination of a slightly larger wheel diameter and more balanced weight distribution. Think of Paris-Roubaix (oops, slipping into another topic section here...)!






AGE / VALUE:   Henry Ford's bicycle posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/9/2002 at 5:41:44 PM
I just wanted to jump up and tell him "You stink at what you do!"
The guy on t.v. was showing slides and he mentioned "Oh here we have a picture of young Henry Ford with his bicycle."
Well Duh!
We can see that!
OOOOHHHHH!
Now being an ignorant and uninterested fellow he did not mention what brand of bicycle it was and nobody asked.
It was unique and interesting and I have never seen one shown like that anyplace.
Gee,he just took bicycle parts and made his own car and then the rest is history.The bike should be in a exhibit someplace.It is not in the museaum and he did not mention where it is. I really hate it when pictures are shown or when a tour guide does not take an interest in the work and turns it out without any information.
The Macinac Island Tour by horse drawn carriage was really aweful.One fellow got irate and said he didn't travel all that way to be subjected to it. He got out and walked and I wanted to join him in protest. That's the attitude, take it or leave it.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Henry Ford's bicycle posted by sam on 11/10/2002 at 1:45:17 AM
Henry Ford's bike was a shaft drive columbia.You can see him with his bike on page 94 of the book Bike Cult by David B. Perry






MISC:   Linhoff posted by: Dale on 11/9/2002 at 1:25:10 PM
I recently purchased a Linhoff roadster at a yard sale-$45.00 in A1 condition, 28" wheels w/rod brakes, made in West Germany , in the 1950's? is very well outfitted,3-spd., hub generator lights,rack. Deep blue paint w/gold pinstripes. Any info helpful







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   What a Find posted by: Tom on 11/9/2002 at 7:42:02 AM
Why can't we find these on this side of the pond. I hope someone from this site gets them.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=733171676&rd=1


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   What a Find posted by Eamonn Mccann belfast on 11/10/2002 at 10:23:13 PM
I have just bought two roadsters,matching pair,male&female and are compleat.the female is 1950 and the male 1951.Do you know much about them because i have little info on them.






AGE / VALUE:   VINTAGE ROBIN HOOD BIKE posted by: Toni on 11/8/2002 at 5:35:19 PM
MY FRIEND RECENTLY FOUND A ROBIN HOOD BIKE AT AN AUCTION FOR $5.00. h E CLEANED IT UP AND WANTS TO KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IS THAT ACTUALLY THE MAKE OR MODEL???? ANY INFORMATION WOULD BE GREATLY APRECIATED.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   VINTAGE ROBIN HOOD BIKE posted by David on 11/8/2002 at 9:22:06 PM
$5 is a good price, but it's not really collectible. It's a 2nd-line Raleigh, as solid as any of 'em. I have one (from the trash; price $0) as my daily rider. You gotta love the head badge!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   VINTAGE ROBIN HOOD BIKE posted by Chris on 11/8/2002 at 9:47:12 PM
What color?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   VINTAGE ROBIN HOOD BIKE posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/9/2002 at 2:20:19 AM
What I'd love to find is a de luxe Robin Hood... no, not a contridiction in terms. C. 1949 they offered machines with enclosed gearcases, dynolux lighting, locking forks, the lot. One presumes Gazelles of the era were also so offered. One wonders what the difference was, in quality and fitments and price, with the comparable Raleighs or Rudges? And a whole lot more appealing than the rather plain Jane Robin Hoods I remember as a boy with the cheap looking red or blue paint.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   VINTAGE ROBIN HOOD BIKE posted by Chris on 11/9/2002 at 4:41:28 PM
People never or hardley ever tell what color the bike is. I sit here reading and I'm asking "What color?"
Blue, black, maroon red? What?






MISC:   Interesting site posted by: Tim Powell on 11/8/2002 at 4:52:53 PM
Found this whilst looking for something else. Thought it might be of interest. There is a 1947 Raleigh catalogue which may be of use. http://www.bulgier.net/pics/bike/

Regards,
Tim







MISC:   Interesting site posted by: Tim Powell on 11/8/2002 at 4:52:53 PM
Found this whilst looking for something else. Thought it might be of interest. There is a 1947 Raleigh catalogue which may be of use.

Regards,
Tim


   RE:MISC:   Interesting site posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/8/2002 at 6:09:41 PM
Tim-- THANKS, a great site and a wonderful 1947 Raleigh catalogue that, if I recall, went for a lot on eBay recently...

P.C. Kohler






AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by: Chris on 11/8/2002 at 1:18:32 AM
Paint question:

Ok,Im told to remove the front fork and look for the spot of paint that has been asleep all protected in the bike's headtube and so it is not faded or whatever.
The brightest spot of paint to be set before a paint shop's scanner to be scanned. They take my money, scan it, mix up paint, take more money and I go merrily off skipping down the street and looking for a painter who is most excellent at their job.

Now my question: What about sitting a color scan or photograph down and having them scan that instead?
My catalog says "Colors in print are as close to actual as possible in print." Does the actual spot to be scanned HAVE TO BE ACTUAL CYCLE PAINT? OR NOT?
What if I have the color on paper but not actually physically with me on a cycles frame or fork?

If that would work?
We could have a database of exact cycle colors on file.

I will call and ask and show them the photo or color sheet.
However I fear I alreafy know the answer they wil tell me. It has to be paint dude, real paint!
I'll point to the enlarged to the hilt catalog photo showing original color and point and he's say "No dude"

I'll let you know.




   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by sam on 11/10/2002 at 8:10:03 PM
The only bike colors I've seen IDed were on an advertizement for wards bikes---they listed the colors as buick blue,chrysler green etc. I'm sure raleigh got their paint as cheap as they could with good quality,which means they most likely got auto paint from a paint suppiler.I'd really look at some of the old british auto paint charts.Also you will need to determin what type of paint was being used---some types are no longer made,if they used plastic paints from the 20s/30s they are nolonger made--some auto supplier still have NOS stocks of them but there going.........

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by Chris on 11/10/2002 at 8:44:40 PM
I don't know if it was an automotive paint or not. With old paint it was all different. Glorious shades, the colors on the older bikes, cars and trams was something diffrent as you already know first hand it sounds like. This is something to look into and ask the old timers about.
1924 Trams? Boy, am I jealous! We are lucky to have you among the group here!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by Chris on 11/8/2002 at 1:31:36 AM
I want to paint one of my Humbers in that particular Humber Royal blue. I do not have anything on hand that has this color, nor do I know of anybody who would be bothered to help me.
I do have it on a color catalog however.
Blue was and is a more alluring color than black when it is a Humber double tube fork model.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/8/2002 at 1:45:06 AM
I do a lot of this stuff but on a slightly larger scale: painting street cars (trams)...

It's true: ink pigments are more limited than paint pigments and the two are very difficult to match. Then again, remember that a lot of paint can and did vary between batches or if a different paint itself was used. How many shades of Raleigh "bronze green" have we all seen? Lots.

Now, I have seen the paint "chips" you mention in the various catalogues. Judging from the Rudge maroon (which is a devil of a colour to match), it's close... "close enough for government work". Maybe a bit dark but then again the paint on the cycle has most likely faded.

That Humber blue is magical and a close replica would be good enough for any of us.

Me, I want to know what type and brand of paint they used: whatever it was, it's jolly good stuff. I am awed how it responds to restoration.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by Chris on 11/8/2002 at 1:50:41 AM
The color copies came out so nicely. The machine improved upon the original and the color copy came out so well I was amazed at what I saw. That yellow paint on the bike picture dried before me and it looked so good.
I thought, why not hit a button and have that ink information transferred into a paint computer and mix it up. From copier to paint scanner? Relying on old color catalogs instead of actual paint off a cycle?
I think they will tell me I'm nuts but then after I leave, the next day the guy will come back in to work and mention that bike guy who gave me this great idea! Here he sat up all night and was tweeking the paint scanner and got it to work!
Still would it be exact?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by Chris on 11/8/2002 at 1:59:31 AM
We never have heard what brand of paint was used by the manufacturers. Not ever. It's a mystery.
Except for one exception.

In: George Pecks Memories of Sumbeam land on the internet,and I think that the word Sunbeamland is all one word.
They mention in the article "Pince and Johnson enamel from Scotland and nothing else."
I have not gone off chaising down that name yet.
What exactly Raleigh used and the others is still (for the moment,mind you, for the moment) a mystery.
Your dedication gives me hope and inspiration.

I have a bottle of Bronze Green touch up paint. As you said,the Bronze green Raleigh used did vary and I have a Raleigh Superbe in Bronze green/Blue-ish fade that I could never imagine copied.
I hope to come across a restorer who could copy and re-spray my 1952 Record Ace but I am so hesitant, it will stay original, as is. I could not bear that going awry.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/8/2002 at 4:49:37 AM
I would never, ever repaint a cycle unless it had been already repainted. Why? Beyond the intrinsic value and originality of the original paint, is the sheer delight when with elbow grease, polishing and rubbing compound and yes shoe polish, even the most "hopeless" paintwork (as on my 1949 Rudge) comes back to life. Black, maroon, green or yes Humber blue, it's all Gorgeous and somehow so darn British looking too. Yum.

P.C. Kohler, back from his excellent local cycle shop (District Hardware) where his '51 Rudge (in glorious Rudge maroon) blushed from too many kind comments.... chick magnet indeed!!!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by alonzo on 11/8/2002 at 6:43:45 AM
Glorious Rudge maroon. That color has been haunting me ever since I saw a rod-brake Rudge in the back room of my local cycle shop. I still get chills.

I've been trying to locate a color match, but no luck. I have a bicycle all primed and ready to paint, waiting for a match.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by sam on 11/8/2002 at 5:59:32 PM
Looking at color is a lot like looking at a gravel seperator.A load of mix is poured in the seperator , and the metal plates with different size holes seperate the gravels.The sand falls through, large rocks too large to go through the holes virbrate till they fall off at the end.Now if you were to change the metal plates to say a type of net with the same size holes the large rocks would still seperate from the sand,but they wouldn't virbrate.Paint is the same way.The machine might seperate the blue(from the paper) but would it virbrate(like the original) ,would it jump out at you,or just lay there?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/9/2002 at 2:36:18 AM
Well this isn't rocket science... if I had an auto paint store within cycling distance (and let me check!) I can pedal my Glorious Maroon Rudge over and let them scan the colour. Then they will offer the closet auto match in Dupont Emron or whatever or even prepare an aerosol spray can of the stuff. An exact match of this type colour should be pretty easy. They'll have colours going back to the 1940s. I bet it's a match with a 1946 Ford Popular or a Singer or something.

Come to think of it, why pedal the whole cycle: the pump is in same colour!! Duh.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/9/2002 at 4:51:46 PM
They say to dissemble the front fork out of the bike and scan that little spot of paint that has been shielded from fading and dirt or whatever.
Supposed to be the best way of doing it.
Myself,
I don't want the closest automotive color. I want the real thing here. We all do. I want the people to say "That's new, never used out of the crate/box isn't it, Chris?" and with a smile I say quietly "No, that's restored"
This was accomplished with the Schwinn Pea Picker campus green or whatever Schwinn called the Pea Picker's paint color.
Somebody who worked at Schwinn was contacted and they got the recipe for the paint and did it that way. So I was told. Is this more easier with Schwinns?
Thats the way to do it. I have seen Pea picker bike done like that.
This poor fellow I met really killed himself to match the Raleigh bronze green on this Sports and it was close but not exact. He said, I went thru heck to get it as good as I could and to take it or leave it. He had had it and was not gonna try again. I am going to speak with the paint shop mixing folks and try to not make this more difficult than it already is.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   I'm thinking about paint posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/10/2002 at 12:47:43 AM
Ah, but why do you assume that the paint colour Raleigh Industries used wasn't an automobile colour in the first place?

P.C. Kohler, with Dupont Dulux "Tuxedo Cream" (Crysler) under his fingernails after painting a 1924 Berlin tram all day.






AGE / VALUE:   Strange lovely bicycle posted by: bill on 11/7/2002 at 3:12:25 PM
Well,
After a year, I still am trying to ID this bicycle. It is a beautiful beast, but no one has told me what she is:

http://www.io.com/tog/grnbike.html

All suggestions welcome, she may be english or may be czech, or some other country....

thanks,
Bill



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange lovely bicycle posted by Michael K on 11/7/2002 at 7:16:12 PM
The sprocket has 3 "S's", what company made sprockets like that?

Michael

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange lovely bicycle posted by Mucus on 11/7/2002 at 7:21:02 PM
That's a Sunbeam. I don't know what model. A great old bike!

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by bill on 11/7/2002 at 8:54:09 PM
Sunbeam has come up before, but the only ones I have seen are the enclosed crank. Does anyone have a photo of that crank on a production bicycle?

To make it funner, I have found that they made military bicycles during first world war, but no one has been able to find photos or descriptions. This one is solid green, no chrome, this sorta helps me steer towards that.

Question: what rear hub should be on it. The rear sprocket looks like it was replaced...

thanks, Bill

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/8/2002 at 12:51:24 AM
Raleigh! Take a look at that fork. That is the Raleigh tubular fork crown.
I recognize the hole by the crank for an enclosed chainguard as Raleigh.
What is special about this bike is that it is a tall 26 inch frame model. These are rare, and seldon seen, seldon offered on e- bay. Oh,these are out there, but finding one is a task and 1/2.

The S probably means service. Neat to see a Military Raleigh bike. The poster slogan at the time
went like this:

"Jerry" may come
Windows may go
But Raleigh goes on for ever.

The heron is wearing a military helmet, this is one of my most loved posters on Raleigh.

Sunbeam was a whole another class of bicycle.With all my love for and interest in Raleigh I must confess that Sunbeam was sitting on top of all of them.
A breed apart Sumbeam was. Also Sunbeam did not go much past the 1930's.
I.C.I. took over and sold off the old worn out machinery. Sunbeam's name was all that survived, it appeared on Raleigh made bicycles. However, I don't see that Raleigh really used it, really kicked it high gear with the name after buying it.It was barely used and I have yet to see a Sunbeam ad put out by Raleigh. No great bikes were badged up and sold by Raleigh after they got the name. Just a black 26 inch 3 speed. Hope to be wrong, but I doubt it. I saved a ladies bike from the late 1950's early 1960's and it has a Sunbeam badge.
What happened to Sunbeam was a sin!
Sunbeams are the king of roadsters. I was told that if I was to ask for help in finding a bike, (and he could find anything) to ask his helpin finding a Sunbeam roadster.
However he pointed out it would not be cheap as they are expensive and hard to find somebody who will part with theirs.
I wanted to go after old Humber instead.
He snuffed, "Humber?"


   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/10/2002 at 8:52:21 PM
Such a rare and expensive machine and without question it was well loved by Elgar. I sit stunned and again wonder. Surely that could not have been destroyed.

Of course, there is rust and decay and breakage and so not just stupid heirs that toss it into the skips. I tracked one bike and went into the basement with the guy and there it was, but it was literally falling apart.
Basements are not good for bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/10/2002 at 8:54:53 PM
Such a rare and expensive machine and without question it was well loved by Elgar. I sit stunned and again wonder. Surely that could not have been destroyed.

Of course, there is rust and decay and breakage and so not just stupid heirs that toss it into the skips. I tracked one bike and went into the basement with the guy and there it was, but it was literally falling apart.
Basements are not good for bikes.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by Bill on 11/8/2002 at 4:28:58 AM
Raleigh?? That S has had many a folk running down a rabbit hole.
1.Can anyone direct me to a good photo of this type of front end?
2. What kind of fenders and Mudguard should it have
3. The serial number is 166231, now if it is raleigh, that puts the date at 1906/7?
4. The rear pivot on brakes (the one behind headtube) is hinged on both sides, coming to a center for rod to crank [like a "Y" with the upper v attaching on each side, and stem the connector. All my others are single sided.

ok. I am sorta confused, or freaked... this was a 75 dollar bicycle... must solve this mystery..

Bill

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange lovely bicycle posted by Mucus on 11/8/2002 at 1:30:00 PM
I still think it's a Sumbeam. The only one I ever saw had a 26 in. frame. However the tubular fork was a Raleigh trade mark. Maybe someone switched crank sets way back when. I think the crank at least is from a Sunbeam.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange lovely bicycle posted by Tim Powell on 11/8/2002 at 1:48:04 PM
I have a Selbach with an "S" Chainwheel. It is from about 1926. Your frame however looks identical to my Raleigh Roadster from 1925. The chaincase mounting is of a type I have only seen only Raleighs. Most other manufacturers used a far more solid type of mounting involving brackets at top and bottom.

Cheers
Tim

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange lovely bicycle posted by Ed on 11/8/2002 at 2:27:49 PM
Does the headlamp bracket similar to Raleigh's heron bracket have a cutout or offer any other clues? Sure looks like an old Raleigh to me,but I can't explain the Ss in the chainring.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by Bill on 11/8/2002 at 4:17:58 PM
The headlamp bracket is cutou, but with no heron, not sure when they started. There is a hold in the rear tyre support, near axle hole. The serial number is on seat tube and under crank.
Will try and get some more photos taken. There is a photo of Sir Edward Elgar and one of his 'Royal' Sunbeam on
http://www.localhistory.scit.wlv.ac.uk/Museum/Transport/bicycles/Sunbeam.htm
that shows what looks to be the same type fork support...
all this help is great, keep it coming!!
thanks,
Bill

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by Tim Powell on 11/8/2002 at 5:29:07 PM
Sunbeam Chaincases were in two halves and a nightmare to remove. Your frame has a standard Raleigh chaincase mounting. Also the fork crown is particular to Raleigh. Yours is so similar to my 1920's Raleigh that I think the date of 1906 could be right. The top bell-crank for the rear brake also looks typical Raleigh. HAve a look at the bottom bracket cups, they should have a mark.

Regards,

Tim

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by Bill on 11/8/2002 at 8:16:53 PM
bottom bracket cups? as in brake shoe holders...?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by bill on 11/8/2002 at 8:37:55 PM
never mind, those bracket cups... brain misfire....
will look tonight!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/9/2002 at 5:06:24 PM
Question:
Where on the planet is Mr. Phoebus?
Sir Edward Elgar had two Sunbeams and that was his pet name for his bicycle.
The museaum does not know and if it does, it is not going to say.

Private collection? landfil?
Was Sir Edward cycling in a nasty side of town one day and was harrased by spray can weilding hooligans who riped off parts and painted grafitti on it? The world may never know!
Where is the bicycle or bicycles?
Or, is it sitting in a shed someplace waiting for me to come strolling up with the person who is doing the estate sale and with an aggrivated wave of hands and a puff of pipe smoke. Oh, I dunno, give me 50 pounds for it and get the thing out of here. It's large.
Me? bag Sir Edward Elgar's bicycle? Ha! Dream on.I hope it is in a British museaum someplace but I doubt it.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Strange lovely bicycle posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/10/2002 at 2:06:37 AM
As a devoted Elgarian, I sure would like to know where Sir Edward's Sunbeams are too! I have visited his birthplace in Broadheath, outside of Worcestshire, no Sunbeam there but some nice photos. And his grave outside of Malvern in glorious countryside where he loved to cycle. Apparently, he would do 40-45 miles a day and this is, by no means, flat ground. Many of his earlier compositions were first conjured up in his head whilst cycling. One of these days, I'll find a mint Rudge Pathfinder or Humber Clipper in England and cycle "The Elgar Trail" in the Malvern Hills. This is truly England's "Green and Pleasant Land". But as for finding one of Elgar's Sunbeams... well, not likely.

P.C. Kohler, fond of working on his Rudges to the 2nd Symphony and Enigma Variations






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Roadster posted by: Tom on 11/7/2002 at 4:46:37 AM
Here is a very nice old Hercules roadster. Too bad shipping would be so high. Over the pond. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=732865513


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Roadster posted by David on 11/7/2002 at 6:22:12 PM
26" frame!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Roadster posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/8/2002 at 1:17:54 AM
Beautiful.
First Hercules in this frame size I have seen.
I wish I could be finding these.Pulling them out of sheds garages.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Roadster posted by Michael K on 11/8/2002 at 10:18:51 PM
That strange, yet beautiful shifter...Humberchris, didn't you wax nostalgic on that not too long ago? The bid is still at the original bid, has 4 days, but no one is biting yet...maybe it'll be a steal?