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Archived: English Roadsters







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Spoke lengths for dynohub and 28" Dunlops posted by: Ben on 5/16/2002 at 5:05:22 PM
Does anyone happen to know the correct spoke lengths for a 32H Dynohub with 28" Dunlop rims from around 1960?

Ben


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Spoke lengths for dynohub and 28 posted by Ben on 5/16/2002 at 5:08:16 PM
Oh, forgot to say that would be 3 cross....

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Spoke lengths for dynohub and 28 posted by Randy on 5/17/2002 at 12:49:12 AM
Large flange is 11-11/16" and small flange is 12-1/16", both (as you say) cross 3.

I'll take this opportunity to (once again!) :-) plug the Raleigh/S-A wheelbuilding book transcription and spoke chart on my website at http://www.rickadee.net/'zephyrus (' is a tilde)

Have fun rebuilding it, Ben!

Randy

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Spoke lengths for dynohub and 28 posted by Ben on 5/17/2002 at 2:14:13 PM
Thanks, Randy. I can't wait to get it together, and my brother the electronics genius has updated the filter design on Tony Hadland's site so I can charge batteries and not blow bulbs...if anyone wants a copy of the design I will send a PDF.

Ben

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Spoke lengths for dynohub and 28 posted by Ben on 5/18/2002 at 8:14:51 AM
Got the wheel all laced up this evening. Spoke lengths were perfect! Thanks, Randy.

Ben






AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by: Dewane on 5/16/2002 at 3:37:27 PM
Hi, today I took my '62 Dunelt to work, and got a shoulder bag (I believe these are called musette bags?) and some water, juice and a Clif bar. Sometimes it pays to ride your roadster.

On a similar note, I've had many Schwinns with SA and Shimano 3-speeds (speedsters, racers and a Taiwan Collegiate), one Raleigh and a Dunelt. The Dunelt is far and away the most comfortable bike I've ever ridden. The frame is responsive, springy and comfortable at the same time. Anybody else notice that some roadsters are more comfortable than others?

I've never had a DL-1, I'd be interested to hear how those feel. The frame angles would be good for cobblestone streets, how is it on today's modern roads?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by Chris on 5/16/2002 at 3:52:08 PM
With well inflated tires and a good rear hub the Raleigh Tourist is an excellent commuter bike with paved or unpaved roads.
Find a Sturmey- Archer F.M. hub and put it in the rear wheel of your Raleigh Tourist.You will love it.
This bike is made for commuting to work and back.Really,literally made for it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by P.C. Kohler on 5/16/2002 at 5:01:41 PM
My best school chum had a blue Dunelt, c. 1964. The most memorable thing about it was the wonderful transfer on the top tube which I have only seen on Dunelts:

'Ride Awheel on Sheffield Steel'

That's gotta be the best slogan going and wonderful to see when you're doing just that. Amazingly, Lloyd's Cycles (UK) which has so many replacement transfers for British cycles, doesn't have this in their catalogue. I'd love one for my DL-1, authentic or not!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/16/2002 at 10:57:34 PM
I saw a older fellow today on a Dunelt 3 speed. The rear hub was making that wonderful click, click, click sound. I looked to see what brand it was and it was a Dunelt and then I noticed the word Dunelt in gold written across the down tube. It was a treat to see one.
And I can relax and not be all jealous like because I have four of these exactly at home.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by Chris on 5/16/2002 at 10:59:41 PM
Lloyds has so darned much stuff it would take ages to sort it all out and time is money too. Ask him, Ask Nick Tithecloth and you'll see he has this decal.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by marcus on 5/17/2002 at 12:23:00 AM
Due to the frame angles on the DL1, they handle different than you'd expect. I find them a little more difficult to manuvure than my 23 inch Raleigh Sport. To me, they're perfect for good country roads, but less good to get around the towns and harder to get on and off of. But you'll find you sit very high up and can easily look down on the roof tops of cars. They give you a feeling of extra importance. Be sure to equip yours with a Lucas King of the Road Ding Dong Bell. The true ring of these bells is just what they need. You'll like them, but they're hard to ride.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by Ben on 5/17/2002 at 2:17:48 PM
I ride my '59 Phillips roadster to downtown Chicago from a wetern suburb frequently and find it not at all hard to handle, even in downtown traffic. It's an absolute joy to be riding north through Old Town towards Lincoln Park among all the expensive townhouses...

Ben

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bike to work day - free stuff! posted by Warren on 5/18/2002 at 2:15:23 AM
That's funny...I just picked up an NOS Lucas "King of the Road" bell...it's magnificent. I suspect they don't make these anymore.






MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by: David Poston on 5/16/2002 at 4:54:07 AM
Do English roadsters normally come with the internal gears and in 3-speed? Are these things hard to fix compared to the derailer system? The reason why I ask is that my father had trouble with 3-speeds (they were American ones, I think, not European) back in the 1960's in his cycling days (he used to race, too). He preferred 1-speeds and 10-speeds over the 3-speed, because the 3-speed gave him real problems. Any comments?


   RE:MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by Chris on 5/16/2002 at 3:55:07 PM
The Sturmey-Archer hub when properly maintained and properly ajusted and oiled will give you years of trouble free service. I don't know what American hub he was using. The only American (really American) 3 speed that I know of was the New Departure tripple speed hub.

   RE:MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by smg on 5/16/2002 at 5:42:16 PM
I'd guess that your dad's problems with internal hubs stemmed from the wide gaps between gears that are typical of the AW and similar hubs. You just can't get gears close enough to deal with subtle variations in wind and grade.
If you gear an S5 (5-speed) very low (no more than 48" middle) you can get the two top gears to be about 10" apart. I've been using such a bike very successfully for communting the past couple of months. I also have a project underway involving one of the close-ratio AM hubs which promises to be a lot of fun on the level stretches.
The other disadvantage of internal hubs is that they do have more internal drag, which I notice when climbing the same hill with a derailleur bike. This is a tradeoff, the price paid for being able to shift at a standstill and the overall lower maintenance of the internal hub.

   RE:MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by JohnM on 5/16/2002 at 6:14:56 PM
Some of the folks here overhaul them, but so far I've never had to do more than squirt some WD-40 into the hub to free it up (always follow up with something like sewing machine oil or gun oil - I've been using Mobil-1 synthetic on one of mine). I'm curious to know if there is typically any significant wear in there?

   RE:RE:MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by David on 5/17/2002 at 2:30:44 AM
The usual wear you see is at the tips of the pawls and the corners of the clutch. The places that should have a sharp angle get rounded off.

   RE:MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by Bill Putnam on 5/17/2002 at 3:13:04 PM
Many American bikes in the 50's and 60's used the Sturmey Archer AW 3 speed hub. I don't know what your father used, but this hub is the most common. If the hub is worn, improperly adjusted, or the shift cable is kinked, it can skip or freewheel in both directions. If the hub is in good condition and properly lubricated and adjusted there should be no problems assuming you ease up pressure on the pedals shifting from 2nd to 3rd gear or 3rd to 2nd.

Sheldon Brown has a nice write up on Sturmey Archer hubs at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/sturmey-archer.html and there are links to manuals for repair. The commonly worn parts are readily available, and it's not a big deal for a modestly handy person to rebuild the AW hub. While it is easy to rebuild a Sturmey Archer AW hub and throw a new chain on a bike, rebuilding a worn out derailler system typically entails replacing the derailler, freewheel, and chain, which isn't difficult but not much original can usually be salvaged. Some people have rebuilt certain deraillers such as the Campagnolo Nuovo Record, as replacement bushings and pins were available for these, however for this to be done properly requires accurate machining that costs more than a good used derailler. I would recommend dissassembling, cleaning, and carefully inspecting an AW hub if you want it to give dependable service. After 40 or 50 years, the varnish and gum build up inside some of the hubs is difficult to flush out, and often you will need to replace at least the clutch and pinion pins anyway.

The AW hub is not well suited to racing due to the large jumps between gears. Sturmey Archer used to make close ratio 2, 3, and 4 speed hubs intended for the racing market. Very few of these came to the States. The Sturmey Archer 5 speed S5 through S5.2 hubs come up fairly regularly on e bay and these have closer ratios than the AW,
though they are not as close as some of the other hubs sturmey used to make. My daily commuting bike has an S5.2 hub, and this has provided many years of trouble free service. These hubs should be oiled little and often with either Sturmey Archer hub oil or a lightweight motor oil.

   Servicing an old 3-speed for a beginner posted by David Poston on 5/17/2002 at 5:31:22 PM
#1. So let's say I get an old Raleigh from the 50's. I know virtually nothing about bike mechanics, or other mechanics for that matter. What do I do? Should I take it to a bike shop and get it checked out?

#2. Assuming that everything is in working order, what simple steps do I need to do for maintenance?

P.S. I'll have to ask my dad what kind of 3-speeds he had trouble with, I'm assuming they were X-brand American models. He probably didn't have any experience with those--he spent most of his time on Schwinn Paramount 10-speed racing bikes.

   RE:MISC:   Problems with 3-speeds, internal gears? posted by glen on 5/20/2002 at 5:08:23 AM
My Sturmey-Archer AW 3 sp. hub is 39 years old and still works like new. All I've ever done to it is oil it.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by: David Poston on 5/16/2002 at 4:44:03 AM
I am new to the world of vintage bicycles, although I've always admired them from afar (i.e. in pictures, period movies, etc). Can someone please explain the British/European phenomenon in bicycles as opposed to the American one (I'm somewhat familiar with the progression of styles through the 20th century in this country). I tend to prefer British/European models because they look more "classic" or "old-fashioned," although that is an observation which has been made by my untutored eyes. Can someone please explain the history of the development of English "roadsters" or "cruisers" and why they still look somewhat "old-fashioned" today? I particularly interested bicycles that look pre-1940's, but I may have a tough time finding one that old in good condition, so I was thinking about a later year if the model is still the same. Any brands/models to keep my eye out for as well? Sorry for the long post.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by P.C. Kohler on 5/16/2002 at 2:53:09 PM
If you want an excellent introduction to what defines an English roadster (never, ever called a 'cruiser'!) try this website:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/english-3.html

Of course beyond the technical aspects of a roadster, the appeal for many of us are in the aesthetics: simply put this is the most elegant bicycle ever built: the long, graceul frame "geometry", all that sold British chrome (from Rhodesia in older bikes of course!), the unmistakable British-ness of the paintwork, coach lining, transfers (decals) etc. Even the white 'blackout' strip on rear mudguard! Personally, I also really like the traditional 'extras' on roadsters: real Brooks leather saddles, Brooks saddle bags, Dynohub lighting or at least Pifco battery laterns, frame-mounted Britalloy pump and in that Brooks seat bag, an original Dunlop tyre mending kit in the yellow tin and the 'all-in-one' Raleigh cycle wrench. What I'd really like is for someone to make replicas of the Dunlop roadster tyres 'Made in Gt. Britain'.

As for the age of a roadster, sure I'd like a 1948 vintage Superb too but what makes these machines so wonderful is that they are TIMELESS. With few variations, a DL-1 from 1980 was not too much different in essentials from a pre-war one. DL-1s are quite readily available; certainly on eBay although that's often the most expensive venue to find them.

When I was a boy in the 1960s, NO one in my neighbourhood owned an American-made bike. Schwinns, Huffys etc. were all "yucky" and to be avoided at all cost. Sorry, but to this day I look at an American-made bicycle from that era and just wince! It was coolest to have a Raleigh or a Rudge, ok to have a Dunelt or Robin Hood (well almost!) but AMF branded Hercules were suspect. That's what I had at first and so I was thrilled when my dad found me a year-old Raleigh. All of these were "sports" type cycles not roadsters. The first DL-1 I ever really saw belong to be sister's boyfriend!

Hope you will join the Roadster 'fraternity' soon!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by Chris on 5/16/2002 at 4:57:45 PM

Wow! There is a ton of things to study here! You have to take into consideration the diffrences between the U.S. and the rest of the world. That in Europe the bicycle was a basic form of transportation. People used it and relied upon it to get around.To pick up groceries to deliver kids to and from school,e.t.c.
They used tandems with child trailers.Sidecars only bicycle ones. smaller and filled with kids and groceries. A bicycle was not a toy but a necssity. Used daily for real transportation needs. All they had before people could afford a scooter, motorcycle,mini- car like a bubble car ( Isetta, e.t.c.) Then small car's in the 1950's and the bicycle was not so crucil then. Still, it was marketed and sold to school age children who rode to and from school on a Triumph Trafficmaster 3 speed built by Raleigh. There were other options available, folks were owning small cars and the bike sales dropped off but still it was used.
Honest to god, that rear rack on the British 3 speed type cycle has carried more things for a cycle owner. Food, clothing,pigs, chickens,to and from market, your whole bed carried on the back rack with somebody walking alongside it. In Canada they ride to work and they have a bike rack outside the huge car factories,Still today. In the Chineese restaurant they let me bring in my bike and they were looking at it reverently and respectfully. It was interesting, they loved it. Not a toy with them either, but a reliable commuter bike for the masses.

Now in the U.S.? It's a different story. The bicycle was quickly relegated to toy status where it still is today. For recreation, for serious sport, but for fun still. Not for transportation, not like in Europe. Something for children to play on.Play with on a Saturday afternoon. Henry Ford made the Model T affordable to working class Americans with a program to encourage his workers to save their wages for a model T. There was a mass transit system program undertaken in Detroit until the car interests got together and killed it off. Still we had interurbans, and streetcars for awhile still alongside the Automobile. Where did the streetcars go? To Chile where they are used still! Grown men did not cycle to work on U.S. built bikes, they rode in cars. Ford, G.M. Chrysler. It is the American way.
There are childrens bikes, lightweight racing bikes for men and women to ride in groups for exercise and for the love of it. Mountain bikes are great but they are not really commuter bikes unless your commute is hilly with dirt trails. The bicycle as transportation was not encouraged, but discouraged. Bikes vs. the car. a whole discussion on just that is possible. Bikes and affordable, practical, effective, real, working mass transit systems were hampered because of the love affair with the automobile. In places they have cycle racks on the back of busses.Not in the States.

Another thing that just poped into my head as I am rambling along here.

You know those signs along the road that tell you the prison sentance you will recieve along with a fine of you strike and kill a highway road worker with the car? Have you seen these signs? Well, God Help you if you speed through a construction zone( fines are doubled) and you go to prison if you kill a road worker.
(Good policy, good thing,they're protecting the highway worker,making us think and be careful. I agree.It's good idea.)

Now, Is the policy the same with hitting and killing a Cyclist while driving? It should be treated like hitting a road worker.
Is there a diffrence between the two? I don't know. In Toronto the pedestrian has rights,that car and bus driver is watching to see if I set foot off the kerb. Here,in the States they'll run your butt over! There are diffrences between countries for many reasons.



   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by edgarecks on 5/16/2002 at 7:36:26 PM
Here in Tucson they recently increased the fine for killing a bicyclist from $66 (yes, I'm serious, sixty-six dollars!!) to $1000. Kill too many of us and those thousand dollar fines can really add up (except that the police don't usually even cite the motorist).

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by David Poston on 5/16/2002 at 7:47:00 PM
Thanks for the clarifications/corrections. I definitely agree with you all that the British (or Europeans in general, for that matter) are absolutely superior to the Americans in terms of their aesthetics. This applies to other areas (dress, fine art) aside from bicycles. I apologize for calling an English roadster a "cruiser." I now realize that that term is restricted to the American phenomenon in bicycles. Here in the U.S., it appears that "cruisers" are making a comeback. Although I prefer cruisers over the modern stuff they sell today (like mountainbikes), it's too bad that no one sells or manufactures those old-fashioned bikes from England here. Here it's all about high-tech, modern materials, etc. Ugh! For someone like me who is a period fanatic (like to collect antiques, watch period movies, even dress period), the British roadster is right up my alley.

Now to the bikes. What names/models should I look out for, and what names/models should I avoid in the world of British roadsters? Is there a guidebook I can buy to list the models through the years? Incidentally, oldroads.com is selling a 1969 Phillips 3-speed women's for $115 under their English roadster bikes and parts page. Does anyone know anything about this bike (when was the model started, whether it is reliable, etc)? If you were to recommend me a classic black English roadster with "old-fashioned" written all over it, which one would it be?

Thanks all,
David.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by P.C. Kohler on 5/16/2002 at 8:30:42 PM
Any British made cycle is Quality. If you look up that website (Sheldon Brown's) there is a useful rundown on the myriad makes. One thing to remember: a lot of these different makes were, by the 1960s, all made by Raleigh in Nottingham anyway. Even when they were not, they used Brooks saddles, Sturmey Archer hubs, cranks etc. If you are in USA, you are most likely to find a DL-1 (28 inch wheels, rod brakes etc.) or the various 26 wheel English bikes like the Raleigh Sports, Dunelts. Condition (and suitable frame size) would be more important than name to me. E-bay had (or has) a gorgeous gent's Rudge sports on offer for example.

As for quality, I guess it's Raleigh, Rudge, Sunbeam (I would kill for a gent's 28-inch wheel roadster made by this oft-forgotten super quality firm) and BSA. Then Dunelts, Robin Hoods, Phillips, Hercules etc. They are all good.

You won't be finding 28-inch wheel roadsters in the USA unless they are Raleighs generally. And conversely, you won't find any (or many) in the UK! I have seen lots of rod-brake 26 wheel machines in England of course but the 28-inch ones were mostly for export. If you ever want to enjoy the most wonderful adverts for roadsters anywhere, just look up any East African newspaper c. 1950! BSAs, Sunbeams, the lot. And mostly single speed.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by David Poston on 5/16/2002 at 10:38:37 PM
What about this 1969 Phillips, women's model, which oldroads.com is selling in their used parts and bicycles page? Is it any good?

Thanks,
David

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/16/2002 at 11:16:00 PM
Yes, it's a good bike. Made by Raleigh however at this stage of the game. It's not a Genuine Phillips and it's a ladies frame. You are rushing this?
My very best advice is to save some nickles and dimes together and scare up( buy) a Sunbeam.

Sunbeam roadster bicycles were the best. I have to say it.
Or you can go with a Raleigh, Rudge, Humber, Phillips, Dunelt, Hercules, Robin Hood, Apollo, Royal Enfield or any one of a whole range of models and colors from any number of makers.
I was wanting a part and the fellow stoped me and said that he could get anything I wanted, it was only a matter of money. He said Sumbeam was the best ever, out of all of them. He was right.
However there are so many diffrent bikes out there that will make you happy and long to be out riding on it. Drop some cash, get something exceptionally cool. If you have to go mad trying, if it costs a bit of money when you finally have succeded in getting them to part with it. If people stop you and ask how did YOU find one of those? You have gotten to home plate.
If you think English roadster bicycles are fun and interesting...... You just wait and get a good look at the Vintage lightweight racing/ club bikes with the alloy parts, cool hubs and 531 tubing. Wonderful paintwork, decals from the gods, intricate hand cut lugwork...
Dude, you are in for a treat. Look the buffet bar over real well before you fill up your plate.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by Kevin C. on 5/17/2002 at 2:25:44 AM
I like the good old Raleigh Sports best for everyday use. The earlier ones, even 1950s and 1960s, seem to be of higher quality. The cable brakes are more reliable than rod brakes. Most of the Sports I see around here (Indiana) are less than $20 each. The last one I got was free--someone left it out for the garbage man. Look around a little ... they are out there.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by Bill Putnam on 5/17/2002 at 3:30:45 PM
Although this is straying from the topic somewhat, I do wish to make a few comments on Chris' post regarding the status of the bicycle in the US. There are at least a few US cities where the bicycle is a commonly used mode of transportation. I live in Madison, WI, and in this city there are many people who ride bicycles for transportation. Although I haven't gotten the info from the latest census, previous census data showed that 12% of the population use their bike to commute to work. Although this is far less than many European cities, it's enough that the bicyclist is a presence and part of everyday life. And we do also have bike racks on buses, which can be very handy when it's cold and you don't feel like fixing a flat until you are home.

Read up on Sheldon's page about British bikes, there's great info there. About the only things I find lacking in a Raleigh Sports for daily commuting is an overly tall gear (I put 24 tooth rear cogs on the back instead of the more common 18-19) and steel rims. I have a Raleigh Sports set up with aluminum 590 mm rims (same size as original), a 24 tooth rear cog, rear rack, Dynohub, and quill pedals w/toe clips and straps. It is much more practical than the now common front suspensioned fork mountain bikes that are flooding our streets. And aesthetically to me I find a Raleigh Sports enjoyable to look at.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Where do I begin? Basic info wanted. posted by Chris on 5/17/2002 at 5:20:38 PM
Bill is right there are exceptions, and the exceptions are growing.

   Where do I find a roadster? posted by David Poston on 5/17/2002 at 5:42:33 PM
I guess I was rushing it a little. I wasn't looking to spend a whole lot of money initially, so I jumped when I saw that Phillips women's model in black (the color for me) for $115. Where are you finding Raleighs for $20? At my local bike store (in Houston, Texas), 60's and 70's American models are selling at minimum $200! And they are junk compared to the Raleigh, or other English models for that matter! I seriously doubt I can find an English roadster here in Houston, so where can I look on the internet? Can anyone help here?

Thanks,
David

   Where do I find a roadster? posted by David Poston on 5/17/2002 at 5:44:30 PM
I guess I was rushing it a little. I wasn't looking to spend a whole lot of money initially, so I jumped when I saw that Phillips women's model in black (the color for me) for $115. Where are you finding Raleighs for $20? At my local bike store (in Houston, Texas), 60's and 70's American models are selling at minimum $200! And they are junk compared to the Raleigh, or other English models for that matter! I seriously doubt I can find an English roadster here in Houston, so where can I look on the internet? Can anyone help here?

Thanks,
David

   RE:Where do I find a roadster? posted by geo on 5/20/2002 at 1:18:31 AM
I have 3 Raleigh Sports. $10,$10,$10,& free. I got them at Salvation Army, Salvation Army, Church Thrift Shop and the garbage. Luckily I live in New England and they do seem to be a dime a dozen. A guy tried to sell me a Philips at a flea market for $65, telling me it was an antique...blah,blah. I laughed and offered him $20. I didn't get it but I bet he's still dragging that thing to flea markets. I hate to see the price of these bikes over-inflated. They are the greatest bikes in the world but if you see someone selling one for $150 you can be rest assured they probably got it for free. Try not to spend more than $40. Let's try and keep this great hobby affordable. Besides if you go this way $120 worth will get you at least 3 bikes.

   RE:Where do I find a roadster? posted by geo on 5/20/2002 at 1:20:18 AM
I have 3 Raleigh Sports. $10,$10,$10,& free. They are more affordable and more common than roadsters. I got them at Salvation Army, Salvation Army, Church Thrift Shop and the garbage. Luckily I live in New England and they do seem to be a dime a dozen. A guy tried to sell me a Philips at a flea market for $65, telling me it was an antique...blah,blah. I laughed and offered him $20. I didn't get it but I bet he's still dragging that thing to flea markets. I hate to see the price of these bikes over-inflated. They are the greatest bikes in the world but if you see someone selling one for $150 you can be rest assured they probably got it for free. Try not to spend more than $40. Let's try and keep this great hobby affordable. Besides if you go this way $120 worth will get you at least 3 bikes. P.S. Buy a men's bike.






AGE / VALUE:   CONDITION GUIDE FOR OLD ENGLISH ROADSTERS posted by: English Gypsy on 5/15/2002 at 5:30:11 PM
NOP: new (unused), in original packaging.
NOS: new (unused), generally does not include original
packaging.
EX.: excellent condition. Virtually unused or unblemished.
Functionally perfect.
VG.: very good. Minor wear and/or minor blemishes, but func-
tionally fine.
G..: good. Moderate wear and/or moderate blemishes, but
functionally fine.
F..: fair. Significant wear and/or significant blemishes.
P..: poor. Incomplete, non-functional and/or very blemished.

The origin of it's compilation was: www.recycledcycles.com

Signed,

The English Gypsy


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CONDITION GUIDE FOR OLD ENGLISH ROADSTERS posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/15/2002 at 11:38:05 PM
It's a great guide. Now I don't mean to start anything or sound ungrateful. But isn't it N.I.P. meaning new in package not N.O.P.?

Another thing, A lot of bikes look great until you open up hubs and get a look at front bearing cones, rear hub bearing cones, bottombracket races, headset races and other things. Even a bike in Excellent condition could have major wear on the bearing cones.

Cones wear, than pit, and then crack up! I rode one hub that belonged to this fellow. It ran fine in one gear but the other two were unusable and the poor Sturmey-Archer hub had like 30,000 miles on it. until I took it out and put in a new four speed! Excellent condition should mean, Nobody rode the thing at all.

Still, Thank You for clarifying. I am picky and wanting everything told exactly and in great interesting detail and that isn't the way things are done.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   CONDITION GUIDE FOR OLD ENGLISH ROADSTERS posted by Kevin C. on 5/16/2002 at 2:55:24 AM
The condition of used merchandise is always a judgment call. When it comes to wear, what is "minor?" What is "moderate?" Evaluating a bicycle is even trickier than looking at a silver dollar and trying to determine whether all the letters in "LIBERTY" are readable. Whenever possible, take a bike for a test ride before buying it. It's the best way to see if it rides straight and if everything works.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   CONDITION GUIDE FOR OLD ENGLISH ROADSTERS posted by Chris on 5/16/2002 at 3:58:52 PM
Exactly! You should be able to take your hands off the handlebars and glide down the street without needing to touch the handlebars.If It dives to one side or another something is not right. Usually a bent fork but it could be other things amiss too.
Look for wheels that hop upand down or waggle side to side.Anything from truing to warped/ wrecked rims.






MISC:   HEY WARREN, YOUR SITE IS OK! posted by: Chuck Denvers on 5/15/2002 at 5:16:55 PM
Hey Warren, sorry man! I used the address you give to me with the tilde signal and I reach the site, I was wrong judging you as trying to fool me, sorry! Hey, nice contribution was yours!







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old bicycle light on Ebay... Huh? posted by: Mike on 5/15/2002 at 2:15:01 PM
Item #2102133054. $1283 and four days left for on old, rusty bicycle light? I have a similar one in mint condition that I'll let go for a mere $4500! Cash only please. I take Paypal.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old bicycle light on Ebay... Huh? posted by Ray on 5/15/2002 at 8:34:59 PM
I doubt that you would have an NOS one of these. This is an antique pedal lamp from a Hi Wheel bike. These are very much sought after along with Hi Wheel hub lamps and cyclometers. These work by clipping to the pedal axle and allowing the light to always remain upright as you pedal. They are usually kerosene powered and very very very hard to find. The repops go for around 1G.






AGE / VALUE:   OOOOooooooo look posted by: sam on 5/15/2002 at 2:26:13 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1829080454


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   OOOOooooooo look posted by Ian on 5/16/2002 at 9:28:15 AM
Do we all line up here on the start line to race to own this Sam? Some of his other tools look interesting also. Just the sort of things you search for years trying to find and then discover your local shop trashed theirs last week. Shall we have a sweepstake on what the winning bid will be? Regards, Ian.






MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by: Mario Romano on 5/15/2002 at 12:45:36 AM
I heard that the bicycle´s name plate have an value next or major than the value of the bicycle itself, is that true? A bicycle in a good condition, but without it´s name plate (factory badge) will have the same value of one equal bicycle with the name plate? What will be the value decrease in percent than the price of one bicycle with the badge?


   RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/15/2002 at 1:02:24 AM
A bicycle nameplate alone is worth 10- 15% (percent) of the total bicycle's value. I guess. Never mind that. I don't know how to answer this! What are you talking about? What model and name bicycle what size wheels? all that yada, yada.
Missing the badge nameplate is not good but ignore it if you think the rest of the bike is all there and in good order. It's a bad thing, but not that bad. You can find another badge/nameplate it's finding the original rivits and getting it put back on properly that is the problem and you can do that too.

Yes, I'd knock them down pricewise a bit. I would point it out, but don't dwell on it.
Sounds like you have a "orchard" full of "fruit laden trees" to pick from. Look for another bike.

What do you say fellows?

   RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 5/15/2002 at 1:03:04 AM
A bicycle nameplate alone is worth 10- 15% (percent) of the total bicycle's value. I guess. Never mind that. I don't know how to answer this! What are you talking about? What model and name bicycle what size wheels? all that yada, yada.
Missing the badge nameplate is not good but ignore it if you think the rest of the bike is all there and in good order. It's a bad thing, but not that bad. You can find another badge/nameplate it's finding the original rivits and getting it put back on properly that is the problem and you can do that too.

Yes, I'd knock them down pricewise a bit. I would point it out, but don't dwell on it.
Sounds like you have a "orchard" full of "fruit laden trees" to pick from. Look for another bike.

What do you say fellows?

   RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by sam on 5/15/2002 at 3:09:09 AM
I was standing on the coner waiting for the light to change in a small town in Mexico when this old man,65 maybe , flew by on a late 40s monark super delux with chrome springer--took my breath away.

   RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by smg on 5/15/2002 at 6:27:41 PM
To me, the "worth" of the head badge is approximately zero. You can't ride it alone.

   RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by JohnM on 5/15/2002 at 7:48:07 PM
Hmmm. Doesn't seem like the sort of commerce we ought to encourage. I have visions of a punk kid prying the headbadges off locked commuter bikes at a train station or college, and selling them on ebay. To remove the headbadge from a functioning bicycle is vandalism, pure and simple. If the bike is headed for the crusher anyway, that might be different...

   RE:RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by Chris on 5/15/2002 at 11:41:17 PM
It is extremely difficult to remove a headbadge without destroying it. Very difficult. You have to have the bike in the shop and pull the fork out and drill. With a tiny drill too. It's not easy or fun.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   THE VALUE OF THE BICYCLE NAME PLATE posted by Edward in Vancouver on 5/16/2002 at 1:12:55 PM
ut back behind the sports consignment store that I haunt there's a big dumpster full of bike frames and related junk. Although I don't "consider" myself a dumpster diver, I've walked away many a time from the dumpster with a pocket full of hardware or something in my hand. The easiest way to remove a headbadge is with a snap-off blade utility knife and a rubber hammer. Rest the blade edge ontop of the rivet and give a light quick strike, and the blade cuts through the rivet. Of course this pits the blade, so you find a new position on the blade or snap off the old one. I hope this information is put to honest use?






MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by: Jimmy Hargreaves on 5/14/2002 at 9:19:42 PM
Hello, I recently purchased one Raleigh badged bike, but I can't precise it's age, so, I decided to ask for my Oldroads friends for a little help telling me only the possible decade my bike was made. It's an black painted Raleigh with Raleigh "heron" sprocket, rubber block pedals, 28" wheels with 32 spokes on front and 40 spokes on rear wheel, single speed, Brooks saddle, rod brakes, oiling hole on the wheel hubs covered by a small metal sheet, BC53180 serial number sited below the saddle (on the frame), gold and red striped frame, side screwed fenders with white painted fender ends, little circular lense at the end of the rear fender. The badge says: "The Raleigh - Nottingham, England" and have an heron head on the top. I need only the decade approximately this bike was made (40's, 50's, 60's). I know how hard is tell an bike year of manufacture if you don't have the gear hub from Sturmey-Archer, but, if I have an single speed roadster?

Thanks a lot,

J.Hargreaves


   RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by Warren on 5/14/2002 at 10:29:16 PM
Does it have the bent "camelback " top tube? They were pretty popular in the early 60's. I've got two rebranded Raleighs for the early to mid 60's that have these features. If you go to
http://www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/raleigh-age.html#1955 you see the serial numbers go a little wonky (again). You're bike could fall into that 61-65 Bermuda triangle of missing numbers.

   RE:RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by CHUCK DENVERS on 5/15/2002 at 12:57:09 AM
Hey pal, why, when I put the address you give to me, appears the Speakeasy homepage but there is nothing about Raleigh bicycles. Do you making a joke with me? You think I´m fool?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by Warren on 5/15/2002 at 1:49:53 AM
Try this one...http://www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/

Navigate to the dating section yourself...that is the URL I copied but for some reason it doesn't take you straight there.

No need to throw accusations at people you don't know...right?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by Warren on 5/15/2002 at 1:56:54 AM
OK...this is a re-occuring problem with this server and certain URLs...you MUST replace the ' (apostrophe) that occurs before the word tabula with the tilde symbol. Tilde is the squigly horizontal line that usually appears on the upper left corner of a keyboard...usually shifted. This server or the operating system/code doesn't want to recognize a tilde.

Failing that you can just do a keyword search on Retro Raleighs...which is really a useful way of finding things.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by Denver Dick on 5/15/2002 at 10:51:35 AM
Nope, Just an AOL user.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by Chris on 5/15/2002 at 4:25:47 PM
Well, the keyword search didn't show it but I found a link from another Raleigh site to it.
Instead of a tilde try the squiggly line above it on the upper left side of the keypad. Now the site itself isn't in it's best form these days either.
It needs to be updated and worst of all the section on the Raleigh Pro's and the Raleigh Record Ace bikes has been disabled. No reason why, just disabled.
The market place is closed too. Still the rest of it is there.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   NEEDING HELP ON RALEIGH BICYCLE posted by Chris on 5/15/2002 at 4:34:57 PM
Do this: Go to this site and follow it's links section.
http://de-flux.org./raleigh/

It's a nice site showing a 27 inch wheel, cable brake, 10 speed type frame Raleigh Tourist. Not to be confused with the black, 28 inch wheel, rod brake Raleigh Tourist.
This one is a Brown colored bike with a enclosed chainguard I never knew they put the enclosed guard on a Raleigh 27 inch bike. They did in the Netherlands where this bike was purchased. Great to see it!
I have four of these in various sizes, still no enclosed guards on mine. You don't see enclosed chainguards too often on this type bike.






MISC:   OLD ROADS posted by: rickey@knowlesbicycle334-756-7561 on 5/14/2002 at 8:24:38 PM
LONG LIVE OLDROADS.COM THANKS YOU VERY MUCH


   RE:MISC:   OLD ROADS posted by Chris on 5/16/2002 at 4:01:33 PM
Even if I have to get out and row!






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Roadster ramblings posted by: P.C. Kohler on 5/14/2002 at 7:00:02 PM
I've been enjoying this site and as a Raleigh cycle owner since, oh about 1965, this is a great resource!

My first Raleigh was a gorgeous carmine red 1964 Sports my dad got for me used. Boy did I keep that machine immaculate! Alas, I parted with her for $35 to help pay for a "cooler" Sprite 27 in 1974. I got my first DL-1 in 1978 which was stolen after less than a year!

I presently ride a 1978 DL-1, purchased new for $175 and modified with a Brooks B-33 saddle and enclosed gearcase. And, of course, all those horrid USDOT mandated reflectors removed (within two minutes of getting her home!), white "blackout" strip on the rear mudguard and a white circular reflector added. About 15 years ago I was able to buy direct from Nottingham several cartons of spares and tyres. In 1985 I finally got to visit the Triumph Road works; it's so sad to contemplate all that will be shut down before year's end apparently.

It's always been my hope to fit my DL-1 with a Dyno-Hub. I recently purchased on eBay a pristine May 1969 vintage Sturmey-Archer AG rear three-speed/dyno hub. My problem seems to be locating either an original or suitable replacement headlamp and tail lamp. Any ideas or leads out there? Old Road Cycles sells a dandy tail lamp replacement but what about the headlamp?

I live in Washington, D.C. and last weekend cycled out along the Potomac to Mount Vernon; no fewer than four people stopped and asked about my DL-1, all waxing nostalgic about English made cycles. So sad that such latent consumer interest can only now be fullfilled by recycled Roadsters on eBay instead of the pleasure of taking delivery of a newly minted one from Triumph Road, Nottingham, England!

P.C. Kohler


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Roadster ramblings posted by Andrew on 5/14/2002 at 8:38:02 PM
Keep checking ebay for head & tail lamps, I did purchase a complete set up, lights & Dynohub for $65.00 Great deals can be hard to find but if you persist, items can be found. On mothers day I purchased a 1977 ladies DL-1 for $35.00 at the local flea market....99% complete in very good condition. These things come up when you least expect it. The seller had seven junkers and the DL-1, $35.00 each, each was worth maybe $5-10, but the Raleigh was the pearl!






AGE / VALUE:   New concept posted by: Ryan on 5/14/2002 at 2:26:07 AM
i am looking into designing a pedal car for adults. it will be based on a new 3 wheeled recumberent with front wheel steering and rear wheel drive. i am planning to make a fibreglass flaring kit in the style of a vintage car. any feedback on the flaring and 'big boys pedal car' concept would be much apreciated!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New concept posted by Ian on 5/14/2002 at 10:07:56 AM
Its a great idea that has been done more than once and I doubt that it has ever been a commercial success. Go looking for "The Ultimate Bicycle Book" by Richard Ballantyne and Richard Grant which has chapters on Human Powered Vehicles such as the Windcheater. I could send you a picture of a 1930's Triumph sit down recumbent if that would help. There have been a great many two and three wheel variations on this theme but unfortunately and even though there aremany reasons why it should be a best seller I don't see anyone saying that this is the way they made their first million. Good luck and let me know if you want an agent down under. Ian.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New concept posted by Edward in Vancouver on 5/14/2002 at 2:09:08 PM
I am in the process of reading every book on bicycles and related history in the meager section of Vancouver's public library. What a blast! I must agree with Ian in that 3 and 4 wheel recumbant machines have been around for a while. You've gotta study the older cycling books. The designs and techniques used 40 and 50 years ago as well as the 1880's "sociables"-4 wheelers with the occupants sitting side by side are really unique and definately worth the effort of researching. There is a local bike builder/custom welder in my area that has come up with some unique designs, specifically for wheelchair users, and has had some success in selling them as well. Perhaps that might be an "angle" worth looking into.
Regards,
Edward in Vancouver






AGE / VALUE:   BSA gents bike posted by: Catfood Rob on 5/13/2002 at 9:29:12 PM
Got an old bsa gents bike today..was told it was pre war.
Has 28 in tyres, no stermey rear hub....(coaster)
How do I age it?
Its not stopped raining today, so havent had chance to hunt for a frame number... if I find one, will it help? Anyone have bsa frame no dates?
Help????????


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BSA gents bike posted by Ian. on 5/15/2002 at 9:27:13 AM
My understanding is that unlike Raleigh there were no 28" wheel bikes built after B.S.A. became a part of Raleigh, in fact of all the B.S.A.'s I have found in this country I have never had a seller claim that a 28" wheel bike was later than about 1952. I have never see a serial number register for B.S.A. and I am sure I have seen it written in the News and Views bulletin of the Veteran Cycle Club of England that there is no known records of them. I sure wish somebody would hurry up and discover some!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BSA gents bike posted by Catfood Rob on 5/15/2002 at 8:16:29 PM
Cheers for answering, Ian.
I think it could be WW2 as it has no chrome....everything was black, inc chainwheel, wheel hubs and handlebars.. It has an Edie Coaster rear hub.
Only numbers on the bike are the patent number under the bottom bracket:: 109682.






WANTED:   Phillips Headbadge and Fenderbadge posted by: bill on 5/13/2002 at 7:07:56 PM
I am trying to locate a headbadge and fender badge (not a decal) for an older Phillips. Anyone know of someone that sells or collects those type of accessories?

thanks


   RE:WANTED:   Phillips Headbadge and Fenderbadge posted by wes on 5/13/2002 at 10:19:06 PM
ive two old phillips frames and parts let me know more on
what allyou might need have quite a few parts
thanks wes