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Archived: English Roadsters







MISC:   28 inch rims posted by: Ian on 8/28/2002 at 10:51:28 AM
Came in a little late on the earlier postings on this subject so I thought I would post a new thread to see if anybody can enlighten me about the 1 & 3/8 versus 1 & 1/2 tyre thing. Thanks, Ian.
Here in New Zealand I discovered a stash of 28 x 1& 1/2 40 hole Ukai brand Japanese made Westwood rims which seem to be very good quality and have good chrome on them. They were also very cheap. The interesting thing that I have just discovered when I went to look at my rebuilt (I do not call it restored because it has Japanese rims on it) B.S.A. ladies roadster is that I must have found a 36 hole front rim of the same brand and a matching front hub which in appearance is just like the original 32 hole front hubs. I recently bought some more 36 hole rims from the same warehouse and they are now supplying Van Schothorst rims and the price is considerably higher although at the equivalent of US$29 including our Grab, Snatch & Take tax (G.S.T.) I still consider them reasonable buying. The other interesting discovery while scrounging in the back of bike shops was that their N.O.S. tyres were all 28 x 1 & 3/8 which fall over the 1 & 1/2 rims so at some time roadsters must have changed tyre size. Anybody shed any light on this? If anyone wants 40 hole rims I can do them for US$5.00each but the hard part is the postage, last quote was US$45 for four to the States. Is a total of US$65 for four rims reasonable? Regards, Ian.


   RE:MISC:   28 inch rims posted by Mark R. on 8/28/2002 at 12:06:05 PM
Ian,
That certainly sounds very reasonable to me. Can you get just one 40 hole, and one 32 or 36 hole? I'll buy a set!

   RE:MISC:   28 inch rims posted by Ian on 8/29/2002 at 9:27:52 AM
Mark, the reason I can do the 40 hole rims at US$5 is that I bought their entire stock of 50 about 6 years ago and I still have 40 left! As I said in the original post I can procure 36 hole ones but they are US$29 each. The freight quote was done on size not weight so it would cost US$45 to send two. I am happy to do that but the total for a pair would then be US$79 which makes each rim kind of expensive I would have thought. The freight for four would be the same so if you could find someone to take another pair or two 40 hole rears it would cut your costs back a lot. Email me direct with your address if you want me to get you an exact costing. Regards, Ian.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   What model is it? posted by: Ian Buunk on 8/28/2002 at 9:19:42 AM
I just got 2 new additions to the family on saturday:
a 1957 Phillips Manhattan ladies with ag threespeed rear dynohub and working lights for NZ$5 just needs a new tyre and tube, chrome is all good but paint is a bit rough.
and
a black mens Raliegh with a 1950 ab three speed rear drum brake for NZ$3 it lacks a seat and rear tube and is in rough condition. this is the one i'm trying to identify.
it has a locking fork (no key) and 26" raliegh pattern rims i think the rear wheel is non original because when i aged it using the info on Sheldon Brown's website i came up with 58-61, and because the shifter is a more modern looking "Speedy Shifter" and the brake cable was taped to the frame.
it has been roughly repainted black and the only letters i can make out from the model name is that the last letter was "N". it has a chain case brazeon but came with an obviously non original hockey stick guard

any ideas on what model this is? i can't think of any that end with N

thanks
Ian

ps i did a rough conversion of New Zealand $ to US$
and NZ$3 = US$1.35 while NZ$5 = US$2.25
reasonable price i'd say :-)


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: What model is it? posted by Sheldon Brown on 8/31/2002 at 3:32:01 AM
The "Speedy Shift" is a Japanese clone replacement trigger, not made by Sturmey-Archer, so it would be useless as a guide to the age of the bike.

Sheldon Brown
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   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: What model is it? posted by Chris "the Squirrel" on 9/3/2002 at 7:30:38 PM
I hate the Speedy shift type shifters.
I forced myself to add this type aftermarket stuff into my collection.
Always argueing for much lower prices because "Dude, It's not original!"
Picking thru the metal bins, getting happy about original bits and with disdain seeing the Speedy switches.
Still, I emptied the drawers into my bags and boxes and brought it back home to be squirreled away.
Come to think of it, I have more aftermarket 3 speed than I'd care to admit.

Lets talk about old four speed shifters, can we?






AGE / VALUE:   Reknewing this hoping for an answer... posted by: D. Klein on 8/28/2002 at 1:12:05 AM
AGE / VALUE: Eaton's Glider 1937 posted by: D. Klein on 8/25/2002 at 9:16:56 PM
I bought a bicycle recently, it is an Eaton's Glider. Eaton's is a large dept. store that recently went out of business in Canada. Bicycle frame says made in England. The hub says Canada patent date 1937. The tires say RC Roadster, size 28. This is a male bicycle. The back rim is red and seems to match the rest of the bike, where as the front rim is silver and I wonder if it has been replaced. Does anyone have any knowledge about Eaton Gliders and their value?

Replies:
RE:AGE / VALUE: Eaton's Glider 1937 posted by Warren on 8/26/2002 at 2:42:00 AM
You are correct sir...except the rear wheel is likely the replacement. That hub likely says CCM Hercules Made in Canada Patent 1937. If so, that wheel is from a CCM bike...burgandy red was the most popular colour they used. This hub was spec on many bikes right through to the 1950's. The Glider was more likely to come with a Perry hub. It's hard to date the Glider...at one time they were an independant manufacturer. Sometime around 1960, they became a brand that was consigned to Raleigh. If your bike has Raleigh threading on the bottom bracket or headset then the bike is after that timeframe. I've got one from this period and it is a great roadster. If it has standard ISO british threading then it is earlier but it's very hard to determine when they were made. I have an early one as well...double top tube with trusses. It is a HUGE bike and a great ride as well. The early ones had great big brass headbadges about 4 inches tall. Maybe pre war.

Any markings on the front hub?

RE:AGE / VALUE: Eaton's Glider 1937 posted by D. Klein on 8/26/2002 at 10:28:15 PM
Thanks for your help, Front hub of the bike reads : made in England. Back Tire likely replacement, it has the CCM marking you mentioned. There are no lights on the front of the bike and no indication of any ever being there, so I believe it is likely pre 1960. Any other ideas about the bike?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Reknewing this hoping for an answer... posted by Warren on 8/28/2002 at 3:05:15 AM
OK...I'll bite again. If you're looking for a value and wonder about collectibility then more info and pictures are needed. For it to have any real monetary value it would need to be in excellent original condition with all of it's parts and maybe some accessories. I would want to see fenders, chainguard, grips, unpitted chrome, nice paint, replace the rear wheel with an appropriate one, make sure the frame is straight etc. Even then this bike may only fetch one to two hundred dollars to the right buyer...someone like me or our list "breathren". Unfortunately for sellers, canadian bikes don't get top value because of the small population and market. This is good for us northern collectors...many high quality bikes can be picked up relatively cheaply.

I hope that answers some of your questions. Feel free to ask more. Look for a Perry hub and chrome rim for the rear. Or just ride it...they are great utilitarian transportation.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Reknewing this hoping for an answer... posted by Tom on 8/29/2002 at 2:16:50 PM
Warren is right about the bikes up here in Canada being not as collectable and valuable. I just got an Eatons Glider double top tube bike with truss rods, wood framed leather seat(bad shape)wood wheels, Perry hub, cross brace handle bars. The bike has no headbadge but has a transfer like the 4' brass headbadge. Rides great. I don't know how old it is but it may be 20's. The bike was purchased from an old timer who had it since he was a boy. He also had more Canadian made bikes from pre war. I live in Winnipeg and find these old bikes almost every day. They are cheap here. These bikes are great to ride. Smooth and turn a lot of heads. Maybe these bikes will become as valuable as the Raleighs are.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Reknewing this hoping for an answer... posted by D. Klein on 9/2/2002 at 6:44:26 PM
Thank you both so much for your input! I live in Canada (Ontario), and now I have a good idea of where I can price my bike. Thanks again!






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My Raleigh posted by: Michael on 8/27/2002 at 8:36:39 PM
I've recently acquired an old dark green Raleigh Sports 3-speed, with almost all the orginal equipment (Brooks leather saddle, rims, tires, tubes, brakes, hub, etc)...it says it's made in England, and from what I can gleen with info from Sheldon Brown's site (sheldonbrown.com), it seems to be from the mid-late 50's...can anyone assist me in dating it, aside from the date on the hub? There's a number on the frame underneath, not under the seat, but on the very bottom, but it doesn't match what Sheldon has...he states that frame numbers can be misleading, or the info is incomplete...I haven't seen any info on dark green Roadsters, only black ones...any ideas on links to sites that cover dark green Raleighs? any other sites at all other than Sheldon's would be appreciated...start asking questions, I'll answer like mad! I'm not really interested in $ Value, although that would be OK...I'm more interested in the bike and knowing more about it, and knowing those that are into them...

thanks


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My Raleigh posted by Ed on 8/27/2002 at 9:33:16 PM
There should be a two digit number embossed on your SA three speed hub.This will tell you the year in which the hub was made.Likely the year the bike was made if the hub is original.Green Raliegh Sports,Superbes from the sixties and seventies were were equally prevalent as black ones.I have also seen some brown ones come up on Ebay from time to time.Does your bike have an oil port in the bottom bracket(part to which the pedals are attached)? If it does your bike probably dates from whenever untill the early sixties when Raleigh stopped puting a port in that location. Does your bike have an enclosed chain case or one that looks like a hocky stick? Is it equipped with cable or rod brakes? The answers to these Questions and others can help significantly in dating your bike. The overall original condition of the bike will be important in determining how much you might expect to sell the bike for. Old Sports and Superbes are becoming rather scarce in our area and I have recently seen them sell for between $50.00 for a clean 1968 Sports to $400.00 for a clean original 1966 Superbe with all original parts,encluding the key to the locking hub. Of course beat up old frames with lots of missing parts might go for as low as $10.00 or $20.00.
Ihope some of this has been helpful.Good luck with your Raleigh.I own five at last count,enjoy them all but don't have any hopes of making alot of money off of any of them.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My Raleigh posted by Michael K. on 8/27/2002 at 9:54:35 PM
Hello Ed!

Thanks for a fast response! I didn't expect one so quickly...although I am not in front of my Raleigh right now, I do know that the hub says AW '66, so my Raleigh is probably from that year, according to what you say...I can't verify the oil port yet, until I look at it again...it has a hockey-style chain protector...it's not a Superbe, I know that...there's a long number underneath on the frame, on the very area I think you're talking about with respect to the oil port, but I don't have that number here...it has no letters in it...What kind of Raleighs do you have? Sports Roadsters? I'd be interested in some parts, like a Dynohub, or an original rear tire...the front is original...also interested in fenders...I'm thinking of getting a like-new tire pump, a Zefal...any advice?? Lastly, I'm not really looking to sell...I was just intrigued by it, and love old bikes...I refurbished a Schwinn Varsity, and it rules...I get people commenting on it all the time, it gets recognized a mile away...with the Raleigh, it's just a nice looking bike in pretty good shape for being almost 40...how do they ride? I actually don't even know that, it's being worked on now, the back wheel was flat...other than that, it was in good shape...almost no rust, no dings, no dents, no wheels "bent out of whack"...

looking forward to replies...






AGE / VALUE:   Every TT frame IAN CAMMISH posted by: Mark Stuttgen on 8/27/2002 at 8:16:20 PM
I have a 61cm time trial frame owned and raced by Ian Cammish in the early 1980s. I acquired it from Moon's bike shop in Newmarket, Suffolk, UK, in late 1983. The decals on the seat tube and down tubes read EVERY. I am assuming this is a custom made frame. If anyone can tell me more about Every, I'd appreciate it. As I am interested in selling the frame, I'd also like help in determining its value. It is in very good condition.

Mark Stuttgen
Martinsville, IN, USA







AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by: Joanne Stuttgen on 8/27/2002 at 8:02:58 PM
I have a 51cm Record Ace road frameset that I bought in Antwerp, Belgium, in July 1982. I was told at the time that it had been in the Raleigh warehouse for many years. In what looks like hand-lettering is this information on the front of the seat tube: Craftsman built by Carlton Cycles Worksop England. In the same shadowed lettering on the top tube, it reads Record Ace. A metal Raleigh badge on the front of the head tube reads Birmingham. The color of the frame is an unusual robin egg blue. It has yellowed with age. QUESTIONS: How old is this frame? Was it made by Carlton before Raleigh acquired it in 1960? Is this frame desired by collectors? What is the approximate value? It is scratched, yellowed, and has a ding on the top tube from the handlebars. The "decals" are in very good condition. Please advise!

Joanne Stuttgen
Martinsville, IN, USA


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Ed on 8/27/2002 at 8:55:47 PM
Check Ebay,Item # 1854032608.Sounds like your bike.Maybe the information provided by the seller will answer most of your questions.Regards and good luck with your bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by David on 8/27/2002 at 9:17:51 PM
I don't think the ebay bike is very old - low-end 80s probably. It has all Japanese components and has that "look." Joanne's bike sounds somewhat older. Is it a 531 frame? How much does it weigh?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Ed on 8/27/2002 at 10:02:12 PM
No big deal but unless I read the discription wrong it does not have all Japanese components. It is from the early eighties according to the seller and is probably a low end model,however(to me at any rate)it has the look of a Nottingham built Raleigh which is exactly what it is.Joanne indicated that she bought her bike in 1982.It may or may not be older than the Ebay bike.The color scheem she discribes causes me to believe thatthe two of them might have been made around the same time. One question for Joanne if your bike has the original Rigida rims there should be a small diamond withthe year of mfg. of the rim embossed on it. Regards and good luck to both joanne and David.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Joanne Stuttgen on 8/27/2002 at 11:25:06 PM
I've looked at the eBay bike and mine isn't at all like it. I used to sell bikes in the mid 1980s, and this is a familiar low end, stock English Raleigh. I bought only the frameset and built it up using Campy NR, so the components are completely different. The key to identifying mine is, I believe, the hand painted Carlton Cycles information. I'm thinking this frame may have been built by Carlton prior to 1960; when Raleigh bought them in 1960, it then received its Raleigh badge. My badge reads Nottingham, not Birmingham as I wrote at first.

The serial number is also a key. It appears unusual for a Raleigh serial number, I think. The serial number is WP0002053. It is under the bottom bracket.

Also, my color is a very, very pale robin egg blue, almost a silvery white. It is very unique, and when I was riding and racing the bike, everyone commented on it. I was surely the only one with that color bike!

I will attempt to provide a link to some photos. If they are not clickable, try entering them to pullup the photos.

http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh5.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh6.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh7.jpg

Thanks for your help so far!

Joanne

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Joanne Stuttgen on 8/27/2002 at 11:28:05 PM
CORRECTION ON jpgs: Please make the apostrophe a tildy before my last name and the photos should come up. Sorry!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Joanne Stuttgen on 8/28/2002 at 12:00:11 AM
Additional photo links:
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh1.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh3.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh4.jpg

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Joanne Stuttgen on 8/28/2002 at 12:01:25 AM
Additional photo links:
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh1.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh3.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh4.jpg

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by David on 8/28/2002 at 2:41:25 AM
Very nice bike. Maybe Sheldon will take a look and comment. The cable stops on top are unusual. Does it have brazed-on bottle and shifter bosses? How much does the bike weigh? I take it there are no decals identifying the frame tubing.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Ed on 8/28/2002 at 3:15:52 AM
Thanks for the great pictures.Not at all what I expected after reading your initial discription. I guess I was influenced by your Robin's egg blue reference.Just my opinion but the frame looks typically Raleigh to me although it does appear to be older than the bike on Ebay.I may be wrong again but I don't understand why the bike's headbadge indicates Nottingham if the bike was made prior to Raleigh's buy out of Carlton in 1960.Please keep us advised of what more you learn about the frame.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop, UK posted by Joanne Stuttgen on 8/28/2002 at 1:18:02 PM
Yes, it has brazed-on water bottle and shifter stops. I have always believed it to be made of Reynolds 531, but there is no decal. It is lightweight, certainly not steel. I am thinking the frame was made by Carlton Cycles, was in the stock when Raleigh bought out Carlton, and Raleigh put its badge on the head tube. It had been in the warehouse in Antwerp for many years--presumably because of its small size--when I bought it in 1982.






AGE / VALUE:   3 speed Glider posted by: Rob on 8/27/2002 at 8:02:29 PM
I just bought this bike it has a three speed Sturmey Archer AW hub dated 1968 and a front Dynohub. Everything is there and it all works fine. The bike is very dirty but will clean up nice, it's red with gold fenders. To be prefect, it will need a new seat and tires. Is this bike worth keeping or is it next year's garage sale fodder?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   3 speed Glider posted by David on 8/27/2002 at 9:20:57 PM
If you plan to ride it, it's worth keeping. Once you spend $$ on tires and a decent saddle, you'll have spent more on it than you're likely to get by selling it. But look at the bright side - you'll have a good bike with new tires and a comfortable saddle!






AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Raleigh1 on 8/27/2002 at 7:51:11 PM
You know, everytime I see an English bike on the road, in a yard, or in my paddock, I get a good warm peacefull and irrationally happy feeling inside. I only hope that is how everyone else feels as well. I can't imagine anyone would have anything but GOOD feelings about these bikes, and their owners, can you?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/28/2002 at 1:01:30 AM
The whole thing about British cycles and much about Britain herself is something distinctly wonderful in it's own unique way. I feel like it is a rare, romantic, interesting treat to see every one. These are something I am willing to/ interested in to fight for and work to preserve to promote and best of all, to enjoy in good company.
The people in this country that produced these bikes were (and are) honest, kind, gentle and good.

I have met bicycle shop owners that cry, really cry when it becomes time to stop. To go out of business and retire. They talk about the bikes, the Trade dinners, the factory visits. She describing to me how they saw the indicator chains being made at Sturmey-Archer. How the tooling made it. All the people (good special people) they met along the way. All the bicycle models, they talk with excitement and honour and they are happy with smiling eyes to have been associated with it for years and years.
Over many, many years Raleigh and other like companies have had a great deal of letters from all kinds of people worldwide written to them praising the bicycles that have come from these companies. The changes at Sturmey-Archer did not go un-noticed. Far from it. Every cycle was an ambassador from Birmingham, from Nottingham, from London and from every place the bicycle was made but simply put: A wonderful thing to come from England herself.

It is strange in a way. The ways people feel about these bicycles. It goes a bit beyond nationalism. These bikes have done what few items do. They crossed over without not much alteration into other launguages, peoples and countries and in those places this shiny black bicycle made in a special place in far away in England is studied minutely before being bought. Then it is cherished, loved and preserved like few possessions have been.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:  England's Magical bicycles: Raleigh, Phillips, Humber and Sunbeam  posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/28/2002 at 1:02:31 AM
The whole thing about British cycles and much about Britain herself is something distinctly wonderful in it's own unique way. I feel like it is a rare, romantic, interesting treat to see every one. These are something I am willing to/ interested in to fight for and work to preserve to promote and best of all, to enjoy in good company.
The people in this country that produced these bikes were (and are) honest, kind, gentle and good.

I have met bicycle shop owners that cry, really cry when it becomes time to stop. To go out of business and retire. They talk about the bikes, the Trade dinners, the factory visits. She describing to me how they saw the indicator chains being made at Sturmey-Archer. How the tooling made it. All the people (good special people) they met along the way. All the bicycle models, they talk with excitement and honour and they are happy with smiling eyes to have been associated with it for years and years.
Over many, many years Raleigh and other like companies have had a great deal of letters from all kinds of people worldwide written to them praising the bicycles that have come from these companies. The changes at Sturmey-Archer did not go un-noticed. Far from it. Every cycle was an ambassador from Birmingham, from Nottingham, from London and from every place the bicycle was made but simply put: A wonderful thing to come from England herself.

It is strange in a way. The ways people feel about these bicycles. It goes a bit beyond nationalism. These bikes have done what few items do. They crossed over without not much alteration into other launguages, peoples and countries and in those places this shiny black bicycle made in a special place in far away in England is studied minutely before being bought. Then it is cherished, loved and preserved like few possessions have been.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:  England's Magical bicycles: Raleigh, Phillips, Humber and Sunbeam  posted by chris on 8/28/2002 at 1:04:07 AM
Sorry for the double post

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/28/2002 at 2:38:14 AM
What a great post! Perfectly sums up what these machines mean (and meant) to so many. For me, the greatest thing was finally visiting Nottingham and making a pilgrimage to Raleigh's factory in Triumph Road. That was in 1985 and even though it was already a shadow of its former glories, it was great to see it. There were no longer factory tours per se but a nice exhibit of cycles etc. And the chance to meet some Raleigh staff and make the all-important connections to get those already rare spares!

And Raleigh people also meant Raleigh dealers. I grew up knowing them in Washington; Tow Path Cycle in Georgetown and Cycles & Sports in Tenleytown, both gone now, and now only District Hardware in Dupont Circle remains a friend to British bikes.

British three-speeds are coming back! One sees more and more on the street. Most are well kept. No, they looked loved. You don't see them on the cycle paths anymore; my Rudge has those to herself nowadays. Her compatriots are mostly "working" bikes now and that's a good thing.

As for being cherished worldwide, I remember having two Nigerian clients in my travel business. They once saw me arriving for work on my DL-1 and they went nuts! "Oh, you have a REAL Raleigh... Nottingham, the best... the best. You'd be really important at home if you have one of these..." Of course they drove up in a swank new Volvo or something but it was the classic, ageless English Roadster that impressed them.... not some Nigerian or Chinese or Indian knock-off but a "real" Raleigh. Somewhere today in Nottingham more than a few people must feel mighty proud of that...

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by David on 8/28/2002 at 2:48:07 AM
"Honest, kind, gentle and good?" Puh-leeze, Chris, I think we're talking about real people who made these bikes. And they come from England, not Arcadia!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by geo on 8/28/2002 at 4:36:34 AM
Raleigh bicycles are icons. They are the perfect blend of art and science. They follow the one thing I feel is most important in designing and building anything. Form follows function. Nothing is wasted and nothing is excessive. They are beautiful in there simplicity and perfect in the functionality. Nothing on a Raleigh is for show and everything has a purpose that it fulfills flawlessly. Add to the mix that they are built well and built to last and you have the perfect bicycle. Raleigh got it right along time ago. What amazes me is that they are still ridable today. Anyone tried to ride a 1950 American bike lately. It's like pedalling a boat anchor. They are heart attacks on wheels. I've had more enjoyable experiences shovelling snow after a blizzard. But a 1950 or 1960 or 1970 or 1980 Raleigh Sports, it doesn't matter, they are a nice easy enjoyable ride. Raleigh perfected the bicycle along time ago and every other bicycle since, in my opinion has yet to measure up.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Tim Powell on 8/29/2002 at 9:03:46 AM
Raleigh were good for a middle of the road quality machine, but there were many manufactureres of better machines in Britain. Probably most never exported to America. Claude Butler pre WWII are common here and excellent also Royal Enfield, Humber, Rudge, Wearwell, Rover, BSA etc. My favorite ride is my Royal Enfield (Built like a gun) 26" frame 28" wheels, hub brakes (rod operated).Full Chaincase and nice big Wrights triple sprung leather saddle.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Dale on 8/29/2002 at 5:07:32 PM
I still wish my recumbent went tick, tick, tick going down the road. Maybe if I build one with mid-drive someday...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Rob on 8/30/2002 at 1:14:48 AM
I guess this thread has almost run its course..but I'll throw in my two cents worth anyway. It's nice to read the "warm and fuzzy" commentary about the English...I know a lot of this is true, having been brought up by British parents in Canada, in the province which had the good fortune to be called, "British" Columbia. As a child, I recall many English and Scottish friends of my parents, and for the most part they were decent, honest, hardworking and very nice people...but they were human and there were a few duds... For the anglophiles, I think a lot of this apparent British character, which is much more evident in the over 50 generation, flowed out of a kind of 'Golden Age' for England, which had its roots in the Victorian era...the British Empire, dramatic industrial expansion, unprecedented material prosperity for many, the very profound struggles of the labor movement, dramatic improvements in public health, and later the community cohesion brought on by the 'war effort' during the first half of the last century. Sadly though, I think much of this is slowly slipping away.

As to bikes...the point of this site...I tend to think of Raleigh as having been a somewhat predatory company, but their products through to the late '70's at least, displayed for the most part good to excellent workmanship, quality, style and functionality...






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Best stuff for chrome is Simichrome; for paint use? posted by: David Poston on 8/27/2002 at 7:13:05 PM
I just discovered that Simichrome is the best stuff ever for chrome parts. I had been trying various methods to polish my chrome, but then I suddenly remembered that I had a tin of Simichrome sitting around. I used to use it to polish up my knives. Simichrome is a paste polish that is made in Germany; it is quite expensive, but it is undoubtedly the best. No messy liquids, or waiting around for the paste to work on the metal. Just add a touch and polish away to your heart's content. People use it on antiques, etc. Another great thing about Simichrome is that it leaves a protective film on the surface, after you're done.

I am in the process of restoring a pair of DL-1 Tourists. I disassembled the rod brake parts, steel wooled them, and rubbed just a tiny bit of Simichrome on them. It's amazing! The parts are so shiny, they have a dark, rich lustre to them. They look better than new. I'm polishing everything like crazy now, from my rod brake stirrups to the tiniest bolts on my frame.

Now, if I could just find the ideal polish for black enamel, I would be in heaven. I've tried Turtle wax polishing and rubbing compound, but not had very satisfactory results. Any suggestions?

David


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Best stuff for chrome is Simichrome; for paint use? posted by Fred A on 8/27/2002 at 7:35:22 PM
Hi David...

Try using Meguiar's Auto Polish, available at almost all auto stores. The paint will look almost wet when you're done, and then just apply a coat of wax for protection. Works the best on dark colors!

Fred A

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Best stuff for chrome is Simichrome; for paint use? posted by Mucus on 8/27/2002 at 7:36:31 PM
Use very very fine polishing compound, very fine! Rub lightly to polish the paint. Afterwards use black shoe polish, and uff that puppy. You're gonna love it!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Best stuff for chrome is Simichrome; for paint use? posted by Mucus on 8/27/2002 at 7:36:43 PM
Use very very fine polishing compound, very fine! Rub lightly to polish the paint. Afterwards use black shoe polish, and b
uff that puppy. You're gonna love it!






AGE / VALUE:   slipping gear/SA 3-speed hub posted by: Bob on 8/27/2002 at 6:17:31 PM
Twice this morning while riding my refurbished 1969 Phillips English bicycle (Sports type)with its original Sturmey Archer 3-speed internal hub, it momentarily slipped out of gear while in 2nd gear. Then just as quickly it caught again and seemed normal. What causes this, and what can/should I do about it? Very alarming, and the first time any of my three vintage English bikes have done this. Help!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   slipping gear/SA 3-speed hub posted by Jeff R on 8/27/2002 at 9:49:34 PM
Adjust the shifter cable. It needs to be a little tighter

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   slipping gear/SA 3-speed hub posted by Chris on 8/28/2002 at 12:12:01 AM
Check out the used book store in your area for a 1970's book on cycle repair. In it are all sorts of invaluable tips on hub adjustment. The Sutherlands repair book at the big, really big library in your area.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   slipping gear/SA 3-speed hub posted by Dale on 8/29/2002 at 5:11:39 PM
If the indicator adjustment is correct, your sliding clutch and planet pinions are probably worn. This is a common failure on high-mileage bikes. While you're in there, check the ratchet pawls and springs, too.






MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by: Tim Powell on 8/27/2002 at 3:31:57 PM
I noticed a few posts here about where one could buy Westwood, Endrick and Westrick type rims. I get mine from http://www.rigida.com/anglais/default.html
They are the best compared to those from third world countries and they make stainless steel as well. I believe there is a ditributor in the USA as well.

Regards.


   RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/27/2002 at 4:37:21 PM
Yes, I'll second that: Rigida are an excellent source for rims. The ones for Roadsters are made in Holland by Van Schothorst and are of good quality. I did have to wait a bit for replacement ones for my DL-1 about eight years ago but it was worth it. The only rub now is that they only seem to stock these 26" and 28" rims in 36 hole versions whereas I was able to get 36 and 40 hole ones previously (and I assume 32 hole ones too). Another source for rims (Indian manufacture I assume) is Cycles of Yesteryear (UK). Again, all 36 hole ones. This is the big issue since if you're striving for authenticity and have original and still usuable SA hubs, dynohubs etc. "modern" 36 hole stuff is just not going to help.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by Tim Powell on 8/27/2002 at 5:03:49 PM
Yes the 36 hole is the current style. I believe this was done as a cost cutting exercise some years ago so that you could use the same spokes in both front and rear and cut down on the number. Quite a saving if you were makeing 1000s of machines per year! I have got from this supplier undrilled stainless westrick rims. This is no problem as long as you make a drilling jig and are confident.
Regards.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by Mucus on 8/27/2002 at 5:06:44 PM
Could you elaborate on which size they have that is 28in? I wouldn't mind having a 36 hole since I at least can get hubs the same, but 40 would be oh so groovy.
Which are the 28's?

   RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by David on 8/27/2002 at 8:36:22 PM
I thought the 32/40 hole setup with the low-flange front and SA geared hub rear allowed the same length spokes to be used front and rear.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by Jeff R on 8/28/2002 at 12:34:16 AM
36/36 or 32/40 the number of spokes is the same but the manufacturer does not have to inventory two different rims.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by Mark on 8/28/2002 at 2:01:15 AM
The 32/40 front/rear wheels could use the same spoke length because the front was spoked with a "cross three" pattern, while the rear was spoked "cross four."

   RE:MISC:   Wheels / Rims posted by Ian on 8/28/2002 at 10:49:13 AM
Here in New Zealand I discovered a stash of 28 x 1& 1/2 40 hole Ukai brand Japanese made Westwood rims which seem to be very good quality and have good chrome on them. They were also very cheap. The interesting thing that I have just discovered when I went to look at my rebuilt (I do not call it restored because it has Japanese rims on it) B.S.A. ladies roadster is that I must have found a 36 hole front rim of the same brand and a matching front hub which in appearance is just like the original 32 hole front hubs. I recently bought some more 36 hole rims from the same warehouse and they are now supplying Van Schothorst rims and the price is considerably higher although at the equivalent of US$29 including our Grab, Snatch & Take tax (G.S.T.) I still consider them reasonable buying. The other interesting discovery while scrounging in the back of bike shops was that their N.O.S. tyres were all 28 x 1 & 3/8 which fall over the 1 & 1/2 rims so at some time roadsters must have changed tyre size. Anybody shed any light on this? If anyone wants 40 hole rims I can do them for US$5.00each but the hard part is the postage, last quote was US$45 for four to the States. Is a total of US$65 for four rims reasonable? Regards, Ian.






AGE / VALUE:   New Dawn for a Raleigh Dawn? posted by: P.C. Kohler on 8/27/2002 at 2:43:03 AM
A progress report on my recently acquired 1948 Raleigh (26" wheels, rod brakes, full gearcase etc), no model indicated but essentially a Raleigh "Dawn" with full gearcase:

Thanks to a member of this Board, I have secured a pair of good condition Westrick rims to replace the hopelessly rusted originals (actually a Westrick front wheel and a Westwood rear wheel) and best of all, almost of the same vintage: 1950.

I wanted a dynohub for this. After a bad experience buying a front GH6 c. 1952 from Cycleart which had to be returned because it was hardly NOS as advertised, Cycles of Yesteryear came up with something amazing: a 1948 (July; just a month earlier than the original AW hub on the machine!) rear dynothree hub (AG), lamp and tail light. Some cretin hacksawed off the original Heron's Crest lamp bracket when installing a front wire basket but a newish replacement has been acquired (again thanks to a member of this Board).

Rubbing and polishing compound, Turtle Wax and paint touch ups are making steady progress on the frame and mudguards. Far from perfect but this old British black enamel is amazing! The chrome handlebars, front brake rods and stirrup and cranks have polished up amazingly well with copperwool and Barkeepers Friend. New red and gold lining (a veritable fortune worth!) and replacement transfers are en route from Lloyds. New Kenda tyres on hand.

This is very much an immediate post-war machine: screw-off lubricator on the bottom bracket, steel pedals and chain ring sans any chrome plating, painted steel SA indicator nut, doubtless original pre-war black/silver faced SA trigger with the LONG "racing" trigger; hardly the stuff of a roadster but most likely a parts bin raid. I repainted the undercarriage of the Dunlop "Bates" rubber loopspring saddle. For regular riding, a Brooks B-66 perhaps.

Finally off to the shop to repair the bent fork, rebuild the rear wheel with the new dynohub and overhaul the bottom bracket.

So the seemingly hopeless case from Ann Arbor comes along; thanks to all on this Board who have helped! Hopefully she'll come all together in a few weeks and I'll post some pix.

P.C. Kohler


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Dawn for a Raleigh Dawn? posted by geo on 8/27/2002 at 4:39:43 PM
Glad to hear you should be able to bring her back to life. I have a couple of roadsters in excellent condition that needed nothing and they are fun but there is nothing like bringing a rat to life, those are always my favorites. Coincincedently I picked a 23" black Robin Hood out of the trash across the street from where I work this morning. Just a frame, a rear wheel and a horrifically bent front fork, that's it. Luckily I have some black Raleigh fenders and chain guard, and a drive train left over from a project. This ought to be fun. Hope the wheels help and good luck. Geo (p.s. I need that front fork now so I'm glad you could get yours straightened. Funny How things work.)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Dawn for a Raleigh Dawn? posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/27/2002 at 5:08:49 PM
George; so true! I have a '51 Rudge which is as close to perfect original condition as one can get. But I much, much prefer to ride my '49 Rudge which was pretty darn "rough" when I got her. All that effort pays off; these old ladies know how to reward such investment as she's the best riding bike I've ever owned!

Here's hoping your rubbished Robin Hood and my rusty Raleigh will likewise come back to life. MUCH more fun than buying a "restored" machine in my opinion.

P.C. Kohler, waiting for the UPS man (again!) to deliver George's contribution to my Raleigh project: those '50 Westrick wheels....






AGE / VALUE:   Standard Cycle Co.- Swift Cycle Co. Questions about posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/27/2002 at 12:17:10 AM
I have time traveled back to December- January 1966 and I am reading Cycletouring, the C.T.C. Gazette
I quote:
Names
A take over in Birmingham: the 70 year old Mansfield saddle making company has been bought by 20 year old Coloral Products Ltd,maker of bottles, carriers, and other cycle accesories. It is intended to expand saddle production and make some innovatons in design.
Another Birmingham firm, the Standard Cycle Co- regulars at the York rally exhibition until a couple of years ago-ceased to exist on October1, The standard K and Smithfield names will probably be perpetuated in futuere models by the Swift Cycle Co.

The name of Hercules, which is virtually disappeared from the market after the Raleigh merger with tube investments in 1960, is comming back on a 1966 range of 'low price high value'models by Raleigh Industries.

My comments: I have never heard of Standard Cycle Co. never heard of Standard K and nor have I heard of Smithfield
nor even have I heard of Swift Cycle Co.
This means nothing, I am a piker trying to learn.
What happened after this article was written? I never hear about these companies or model names and I don't recall even Sheldon touching on these names either. I hope I am wrong. I must have missed it.
Somebody please fill me in, bring me up to date.
Anybody ever hear about: Standard Cycle or Swift Cycle Co.? I was gonna ask but the time machine bounced me back to 2002. I had a power fluctuation.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Standard Cycle Co.- Swift Cycle Co. Questions about posted by chris on 8/27/2002 at 12:36:32 AM
What happened to Coloral too? When did they die? Or are they still with us?
The bottles are nice to have. The anodised aluminum colored ones with the cork- They-re lovely!
thanks fellas!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Standard Cycle Co.- Swift Cycle Co. Questions about posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/27/2002 at 6:09:03 PM
Still no information yet about Standard Cycle Co.
or Smithfield. It's not mentioned at Sheldon's site or at Cycles De Oro and I haven't waded thru a full web search yet. It's gonna be awhile I'm afraid. - But still,I like the search box thingie of Sheldon's because it actually works and scans thru what he has there very well.






WANTED:   Vredestein tyres, distributor in UK or Europe posted by: David Poston on 8/26/2002 at 9:44:22 PM
If anyone lives in the UK or continental Europe or knows someone who does, could you please find out if they have a Vredestein distributor who sells the 28" white ("naturel") roadster "Classic" Vredesteins? I am basically hunting for all-white tyres for my DL-1 Tourists. Apparently, the Vredestein distributor here in the U.S. doesn't offer the complete range of Vredestein tyres, so he suggested I try a foreign distributor.

Much obliged,

David.

Oh, here is the main website for Vredstein in the Netherlands:

http://www.vredestein.com/fietsbanden/

Go to "tour/trek" --> "classic." They list both 26" and 28" wheel sizes in "zwart" and "naturel" (I assume that means black and white?).


   RE:WANTED:   Vredestein tyres, distributor in UK or Europe posted by chris on 8/27/2002 at 12:44:02 AM
If I fix the time machine I'll zap over to now defunct Planetary Gear in I believe San Francisco and ask him to sell me a set. He was the only character to offer these and I blew it and didn't get any and now the shop is closed and I don't now what hapened with that shop either.
Good Luck!

Try Pinkerton's widow or son or whomever is running Pinkerton Press now that we have lost Mr. Pinkerton.
He was selling these but he's passed on now. Terrile loss, really. White tires? I don't know who else to ask. The Canberra bicyle museaum has a for sale and wants section on- line and if you look there there may be somebody in Australia where Canberra is and they may be able to sell you a set.
Good Luck. These tires are as nice ans you think they are!

   RE:WANTED:   Vredestein tyres, distributor in UK or Europe posted by David on 8/27/2002 at 10:54:47 AM
I don't know dutch about Dutch, but I think "naturel" refers to "gumwall" tires. I went through the Vredestein website looking for white roadster tires and saw nothing referring to "wit" or something like that. My guess is that Vredestein does not make white tires.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Vredestein tyres, distributor in UK or Europe posted by Peter on 8/27/2002 at 12:15:24 PM
I'm going to Amsterdam in three weeks - I'll do my best to take in some bike shops and I'll look out for white tyres.
Peter.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Vredestein tyres, distributor in UK or Europe posted by Warren on 8/27/2002 at 1:02:26 PM
Yes they do...I have two pairs. They are called "Classics" and used to be sold by a shop in Toronto that has since closed its retail business. David P. is contacting them about the tires.






AGE / VALUE:   3 speed hybrids are great, just don't knock over the bike without a derailer guard posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 8/26/2002 at 3:44:21 PM
What do you mean nobody knocked it over? It's all messed up.Making this noise and not running right!
I'll take it in, have it adjusted. This is why I don't like derailers!
Now of course I should know how to adjust these! Especially if I'm gonna use them!
Sheepishly she admits "Yes, I knocked over your bike."
No problem, no damage done. The newer bikes have guards over the rear derailer units and they had these back in the day too just not as common.
Knocking over a bike and messing up the derailer was a commom headache. The worst thing with knocking over a 3 speed is POSSIBLY scratching the indicator chain and nut. Sometimes damaging it or getting dirt on it that feeds into the hub. Improbable however.
Hitting the brake and skidding leaving a mark is fun but not exactly safe. Now hitting gravel and especially hitting it sideways is a recipe for getting hurt.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   3 speed hybrids are great, just don't knock over the bike without a derailer guard posted by Dale on 8/29/2002 at 5:18:17 PM
I have two false teeth and spent a week in the hospital thanks to a damaged indicator chain...