OldRoads.com

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Archived: English Roadsters







AGE / VALUE:   Warren did you see......... posted by: sam on 2/3/2003 at 12:38:07 AM
this bike ?It was under the restoration tips.And you know more on CCM track bikes than anyone else here. http://www.audioresearchlabs.com/bicycles/ this is very nicely built.i like the lug work and colors.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Warren did you see......... posted by Warren on 2/3/2003 at 1:33:37 PM
Thanks Sam...the crankset is the only thing CCM on that bike. I asked some others and it turns out to be an early 50's Claud Butler Olympic Sprint bike. Top of the line stuff. Beautiful yes?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Warren did you see......... posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/4/2003 at 1:07:01 AM
Since I only have a few back issues of Cycling magazines from the 50's and unfortunetly these are from 1958-1974 I don't have anything covering this exact bike in my paper archive. Crap! I wish I had a review sheet for this guy.
Clau Butler info yes, just not something this far back.
It is a very nice bike and I'm glad you were able to solve the mystery.






AGE / VALUE:   Polishing alloy Sturmey- Archer hub shells posted by: Chris on 2/2/2003 at 8:43:29 PM
Now that I have found the Simichrome polish and am able to end that quest. I dipped the cloth buffing wheel in it and let it soak in. Then with the alloy hub shell combined with the ball cup with the flats locked securely into the vise I proceded to polish the shell. It took a few moments but all six hub shells came out looking like blazing chrome. I took a kleenex and polished again and removed a fine coating of black and thats when theses really began to shine.
Of course, this has led to other alloy parts being polished as well.







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   WANTED RALEIGH ROADSTER 50'S posted by: ronnie on 2/2/2003 at 3:05:16 PM
must mave enclosed chain guard, 28 inch wheels, any condition, thanks...........







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   help with year and model posted by: Alex Zuckerman on 2/2/2003 at 3:48:17 AM
I just picked up a Raleigh for my first restoration project. I am trying to figure out the age and model of the bike. It is some sort of a Raleigh Roadster with Rod brakes. Serial # 45666BF, which would lead me to believe that the bike was made in the mid-60's. However, the Dynohub is stamped 7 51 in the front and the rear Sturmey Archer is stamped 8 51. Also, the chainguard is completely enclosed except for the black painted chainrings that are shown. I'm sorry that I don't have any pictures... yet... to post. I just got it 3 hours ago and am very excited about it. Please feel free to e-mail me at al_zuck@hotmail.com


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   almost forgot posted by Alex Zuckerman on 2/2/2003 at 3:58:27 AM
It also has 26 x 1 3/8 wheels with Good Year tires on it. Everything looks to be original, although it has been sitting in the basement of this shop for over 25 years. The original owner of the shop passed away, so the new owner (donor) of the bike has no information.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: help with year and model posted by P.C. Kohler on 2/2/2003 at 5:03:47 AM
Forget serial numbers... a meaningless puzzle of numbers and letters. Oh, I know there are lists showing you this and that, but they never jibe with what's sitting right next to me.

If you have a machine with a dynohub dated 7 51 and a Sturmey Archer hub dated 8 51, it means your machine was most likely assembled in Nottingham, England in August-September 1951. A rod-braked, enclosed gearcase Raleigh of that era is a true classic, not "rare" but just a great machine, typical of the type.

Hope you'll post some pix... and yes you should be excited! Restore, ride and revere!

P.C. Kohler

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rollbritannia/






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FS: NOS Sturmey-Archer front drum brake, in box. $125 posted by: Kevin C on 2/2/2003 at 1:18:31 AM
For Sale: Rare, new old stock Sturmey Archer Front Brake Hub, in the original, tattered, wedge-shaped box. Complete outfit, with brake lever, drum brake, fork clamp, heavy duty cable with adjusting barrel, and combination spanner-cone wrench. This was found in an old bike shop in Alabama. Chrome is excellent, arm has some rust spots that should clean up fine. Brake is marked BF 46 12 (December 1946?) This is an excellent brake for an old English bike, or the holes could be drilled for use on a Whizzer. Made by Sturmey-Archer Gears Ltd., Lenton, Nottingham, England. Price is $125, postpaid.







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by: benjamin floyd on 2/2/2003 at 12:26:24 AM
Hey everybody! check-out www.antbikemike.com
Let us know what you think!
ben


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Mucus on 2/2/2003 at 12:41:34 AM
Looks like a fine start, but is way too expensive. These bikes, and all bikes designed for alternative transport must be priced no more than $250-$350 else few neophytes are gonna buy 'em. If you wanna market to the masses, you gotta price 'em for the masses. Very nice "alternative" bicycles are available from "Toy-r-us" for less than two hunert smackers, complete with alloy hubs, rims, and cranksets. I'd drop any too high tech hubs, or other components , and try to find good if marginally higher weight low tech, lesser expensive alternatives.
Bikes very similar to this sell for $35 in China, and India.
However as I said, I think it's a good start.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by David on 2/2/2003 at 3:14:52 AM
Or if you're into production bikes, www.breezerbikes.com
Some have 7-speed Shimano hubs and dyno lighting. I plan to try one out at my LBS even though I doubt very much I'll switch from my English iron.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Mark R. on 2/2/2003 at 1:53:55 PM
I was just reviewing the shots of the bike again, and I feel that $850 is WAY too much to ask for such a simple bike. You can buy bikes at yard sales that are just as good transportation for pocket money. I don't see any points about them that would make them worth that much. I'm sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear.
What the world needs is a roadster that is like the Chinese "Forever" only with the few problems it has ironed out(easily done),except maybe with a Shimano or S/A 3 speed, and for sale for around $150-$200.
There was a bike at "Toys-r-us" last year made by GT, that was more or less a "roadster" (without mudguard though)that had all alloy components, a self shifting six speed system, and beautiful 700c wheels with 38 mm tyres. It sold for less than $175.
That is what the world needs.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Warren on 2/2/2003 at 2:21:40 PM
What you get, is a custom made-to-fit double butted frame for $850. If that's what you are looking for then it's a good deal. As mentioned above, to market that frame as alternative transportation is a stretch. It's an upscale "hip" ride.




   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by M.R. on 2/2/2003 at 7:13:02 PM
I get the impression that everyone who markets a bike doesn't even think about anyone who is "working class" when they price their bikes (yeah, like me). Somebody who only makes $10.00 an hour is gonna look at the $1200 price tag of that model intended to carry loads "frontaloadontome", or the $850 price tag for the "light roadster", and the very first thing outta their mouth is gonna be "Holy sh**!"
Sure $850, or $1200 is only tip money for some lawyer, surgeon, or big business "Yuppie", but this kind of bike is intended for the working man. They really ought to be priced that way as well. To give you an idea of what I'm driving at: I bought a BRAND NEW OLD STOCK Raleigh DL-1 last summer, and it only cost me $450. I personally would NEVER pay $850 for this basic transportation bike when you see the level of mountain bike you could buy for that ammount(very good), not to meantion the level of some roadracing bikes you could get as well, ( a little heavy, but quite nice). Realyy you ought to give this some serious thought.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Warren on 2/2/2003 at 10:12:04 PM
I agree with what you are saying...the problem here is that you can't make "one-off" custom frames to size and NOT charge $850 without going broke. The better framemakers on this continent usually charge at least $1500 to $2000 for frame and fork only. The only way to make this type of alternative transportation venture work is by going to the import model of production like The Urbane Cyclist in Toronto.

They have road, fixed gear, touring and roadster frames made somewhere on the Pacific rim made of straight gauge Reynolds tubing. They come in several sizes and have only recently expanded from one colour to three colours. You can by a nice fixed gear frame and fork for about $400 cdn...or $250 US. Comp[lete They are decent machines...not real light but lighter than any Tourist you've ever seen. The custom guy at ANT can't come close to this price point. He should change his marketing. He's selling to the wrong people.

Have a look at Urbane at http://www.ucycle.com/

They are an example of an excellent service based community bike shop. No affiliation.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Mark R. on 2/3/2003 at 1:22:32 AM
You know this is another situation where I think people need to staop thinking the Sun rises and sets only for them, and NOT insist on a CUSTOM made bike. Custom made utility bike, holy smoke! I imagine that it is entirely possible to build a bike that can be "customized" by choosing a different stem, crank length, or saddle height.
Sure Lance needs a custom fit bike to win the Tour, but why on Earth would any fool need a custom made "commuter" bike??? A utility bike?? Where is the value in a custom "city" bike that costs more than say $250?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Edward in Vancouver on 2/4/2003 at 7:08:27 AM
Ah, the joys of understanding marketing. Does market follow demand, or is demand manufactured by the market? (ie advertising) North Americans are fooled into thinking that the sun does indeed set for them, and buy expensive goods because they are heavily advertised. Look around, there are $250 commuter bikes out there. Some are good, some bad, but almost all are foreign, specifically created for, and sold to a foreign market, with the surplus sent here to N.A. It does make you think...
Although I have no "real" experience with selling bicycles, I have a lot of experience with customers, in my case with catering. The biggest challange is to get the customer to understand what amount of labour is involved, and that labour is expensive. Some shake their heads and tell me that they'll head out to Safeway and spend 1/4 of the amount I charge for the whole event on ingredients and then spend the next two days cooking and cleaning up... Oh boy I'm digressing again, food and bikes are so completely different, which is why I like this hobby in the first place...

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Kevin C. on 2/5/2003 at 1:03:51 PM
For basic utility, you can't find a tougher bike than an old Schwinn Typhoon. I was at a bike show on Saturday and could have bought five or six of them for $50 each. For commuting, a Raleigh Sports is pretty hard to beat, and they're often in the same price range.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   lightweight roadster posted by Mark R. on 2/5/2003 at 5:52:36 PM
I totally agree! I had a Schwinn Collegiate that I used for a summer a while bck, and although it was heavier than a "Sports", it was never the less a fine commuter bike. I paid $25 for it in like new condition. My Sports cost $10!
I kinda like the "recycling" of these bikes(excuse the pun) and alway encourage everyone to buy bikes like this at yard sales and flea markets. Saves the wallet, the environment, inproves your health, and is just a down right good thing to do. I often buy them, clean them up, and stick them out front of my house for sale at a very good price(usually below $50). They sell quick, and I make a coupla bucks without hurting anyone. I always make sure they are clean, adjusted, and safe.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by: Nolan White on 2/1/2003 at 7:50:05 PM
Hello! I have an old Raleigh bicycle that I would like some information on, like what year it was made, and what the market value is for the bike. I have posted pictures of at here http://www2.truman.edu/'a1616/raleigh.html Take a look if you have the time and feel free to email me. Thanks!


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by Nolan on 2/1/2003 at 7:57:23 PM
Hello, me again. That email address should read http://www2.truman.edu/'a1616/raleigh.html with a tilde before the a1616, not an apostrophe.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by Warren on 2/1/2003 at 9:26:09 PM
Even with the tilde, I don't seem to get anywhere?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by nolan on 2/1/2003 at 9:53:54 PM
I apologize. The site should be working now.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by David on 2/1/2003 at 10:51:45 PM
Looks like a DL1 Roadster or "Tourist," assuming the tire size is 28 x 1 1/2. Check the date on the rear hub.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by Warren on 2/2/2003 at 12:11:20 AM
It looks like a late 60's, early 70's Tourist or DL-1 (same bike). Check the Sturmey Archer rear hub for a month and year stamp...ie; 6 72.

Market value depends on where you are and where you sell it. I think it's worth a couple of hundred but others will pay more, some want to pay less. On a good day you may get double that on ebay...or not.

I do want to know how that sidestand was mounted so as to not interfere with the rear brake linkage. Do the rear brakes work?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh bicycle. Would like info please! posted by David on 2/2/2003 at 3:20:38 AM
After I got tired of my DL1 falling over every time I stopped at the farmers' market, I got one of those chainstay sidestands (that required tapping a new hole in it to fit the roadster frame). After I put it on I decided a regular Pletscher/Esge sidestand would probably have worked, too, despite the brake linkage. But I'd already mounted the stand so I didn't bother to try.






AGE / VALUE:   Mr. Bib update (Michelin bicycle tire find) posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/1/2003 at 6:09:45 PM
After another look and a bit of discussion it turns out that Mr. Bib has one arm raised up and he is flashing the V sign for Victory. The two fingers is a V. Also the tire is a W.W.2 war era tire. I must have been nuts to wonder if it was a martini glass or not! (Embarassed too!) I asked if I should clean them or try to apply some sort of tire derssing but I was told to leave them alone as I found them. If I clean or dress them "they'll soften up too much." The leather is perfect and the tires are brand new.
I still don't know what some of the strange branded markings mean. Either a mould pattern number or a lot number I'm told. Now some of the musclebike tires have numbers that some of the smart musclebike folks can decipher and it tells dates the tires were made but I cannot figure out old Michelin codes. Oh well, they are mounted on one bike and the other set is hanging up.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mr. Bib update (Michelin bicycle tire find) posted by Dennis on 2/2/2003 at 8:38:18 AM
You are not to crazy to think he was holding a martini glass. Bibendum (that's the correct spelling) comes from the latin; "nunc est bibendum". Which means: It's time to drink. Michelins slogan was "Michlin tires drink obstacles". There was an ad showing Mr. bib with a champagne glass filled with broken glass and nails. Here is a link.
http://www.michelin.com/corporate/en/bibendum/birth_of_myth.jsp

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Mr. Bib update ( Vintage Michelin bicycle tires find) posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/2/2003 at 9:37:31 PM
A signet ring, a cigar and a glass filled with broken glass and nails. "Michelin tires drink obstacles."
Interesting to see that the lines that make him up are very similar to the bicycle tires that I have.
Wow! Then he is holding up a large glass, that is what it looks like, like he's toasting! Also the shape of what is in his hand still makes me think its a large glass.
There is no marking on the tires exactly showing it to have a Victory V symbol. And I am sure that other tires of that era did have V's on the sidewalls. Not this one.
One thing, for sure, they are too nice to be put to the test of broken glass and nails. Why are these tires called "Stop"? Is it to say that these stop better than other tires or perhaps to stop punctures? Smart name either way! Stop.
Thanks for the link, I enjoyed seeing it and am glad that Michelin had enough interest to share their history of their mascot on the net.
I like the old style Mr. Bib way, way better than the current version. Mr. Bibendum lost his glasses, the cigar, and the drinking glass long, long ago. I think the current version is too sterile and politically correct for my taste! He's lacking flavor and soul. Well, he's still cool! Today, Michelin tires are considered "The best tires for that car" I feel better with the name 'Rain Force' too!
The older version of Bib looks wilder,hipper, fun, gregarious and adventurous. Just the type to be seen at the cycle races, and behind the wheel of the racecars of the past. The study of advertising history is fun!






AGE / VALUE:   Bristol posted by: Eduardo Lourenço Pinto Jr on 2/1/2003 at 4:30:25 PM
Hi All

I've found an old English Roadster (maybe english...). The bicycle name is BRISTOL. Front spoon brake and rear coaster brake. I don't found any reference at Internet. Do anyone knows something about?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bristol posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/4/2003 at 1:35:05 AM
The front spoon brake is not seen too often. Yet, parts are available somewhere out there. This is an old, rare find! Congratulations on your good luck. I have not seen a Bristol brand bicycle yet. There were many makes and models. A lot of them, and I'm not surprised there is not something out there on the net just yet.
Do you need parts or are you just seeking information?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Bristol posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 2/4/2003 at 1:35:36 AM
The front spoon brake is not seen too often. Yet, parts are available somewhere out there. This is an old, rare find! Congratulations on your good luck. I have not seen a Bristol brand bicycle yet. There were many makes and models. A lot of them, and I'm not surprised there is not something out there on the net just yet.
Do you need parts or are you just seeking information?






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dawes Catalogue posted by: P.C. Kohler on 2/1/2003 at 3:38:40 AM
Thanks to Tom Majure of Canada, a splendid Dawes catalogue, believed to be c. 1939, is now scanned and posted complete in Roll Britannia.

See: Photos: Dawes Album

This is one of the best catalogues I've seen with excellent b/w photos of each machine and what a range they had! Including a full line of roadsters, even all-black "All Weather" ones.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rollbritannia/

P.C. Kohler


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dawes Catalogue posted by Mark R. on 2/1/2003 at 1:31:42 PM
Oh God....Man oh man if this doesn't make me feel as if I were born half a century to late :-(
I would have loved to go tooling down some country lane, on a long past Spring day on any one of those....






AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Mark R. on 1/31/2003 at 7:54:02 PM
I got my sample of tubing today, and it is really fine looking stuff. Double butted seamless nickle-chrome moly from Japan.I am gonna buy several sets as soon as they are available, and start working on my roadster project.
Just gotta get the lugs and such. This should be interesting, and fun!
If anyone else has done something like this before I have a few questions vis-a-vis if they used a "jig" or pinned the tubing etc....


   start here posted by sam on 1/31/2003 at 11:13:28 PM
http://www.geocities.com/smonfrey/index.html

   RE:start here posted by Mark R. on 2/1/2003 at 1:17:16 PM
WOW! What a resource! Everyone ought to check this out. Thank goodness for this site (Oldroads)!

   RE:start here posted by Mark R. on 2/1/2003 at 1:17:36 PM
WOW! What a resource! Everyone ought to check this out. Thank goodness for this site (Oldroads)! Oh,
and thanks loads Sammy!!!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by sam on 2/1/2003 at 2:34:15 PM
I just ran across this http://www.phred.org/'josh/build/build.html

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by sam on 2/2/2003 at 12:20:21 AM
Forgot to say this is where I found the last site.He has this on ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2156891815&category=420






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   what is this cruiser????? posted by: michael on 1/31/2003 at 5:49:18 PM
Hello, I am new to this scene, and recently bought what i was told was a rare bike ? It is a Sheffield Te3 mens cycle, with a Sturmy Archer 3 speed, red paint & crome fenders. the bike is like new (probably is,HA) If there is anyone out there who has a clue, I would really appreciate it. Mike.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   what is this cruiser????? posted by Mucus on 1/31/2003 at 7:53:05 PM
Sounds like a Sears bike that they sold a few years ago. They had a "brand" they sold called "Sheffield" that looked like an English bike, but were made in Taiwan. I had one, a three speed.It was more or less OK, but the finish, and chrome and such were on the crappy side. I don't recall mine having a S/A hub, I thought it had a Shimano, but I am probably wrong, as I only had the bike a few weeks before I got "roadster fever" when I found my original "Sports", and then sold the "Sheffield". My guess yours is of this type, and probably is 10-15 years old.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS DL-1... posted by: karl on 1/31/2003 at 2:34:05 PM
Over the past couple of months I have had the good fortune to go digging through an old bike shop that has been in business since the forties. I have found lots of odds and ends, mostly balloon type stuff and toys, and the bicycle sidecar on ebay right now. But not until I went to visit him yesterday does he mention that he has a Brand New(NOS) Raleigh. He has mentioned lots of NOS bikes but no Raleighs. I ask him the particulars, rod brakes, enclosed chain, 28" wheels. He thinks it is from the 60's, I will see on Wednesday when I go back to see what he has pulled out of the depths for me this time. I hope it's there. Unfortunately I cannot afford to keep all of the stuff I am finding so I will be passing this along to some lucky new owner. I'll keep you posted. Happy Hunting


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS DL-1... posted by karl on 1/31/2003 at 8:23:33 PM
He found it...unfortunately it's a ladies bike. Oh well.






WANTED:   EMPIRE BIKES posted by: Ian on 1/31/2003 at 8:37:53 AM
Can anybody tell me who made these, where and for how many years? I have had several chain wheels with EMPIRE written in them and today came across a bike with one on it. It also has EMPIRE on the pedal rubbers but is too rusty to read any of the decals. It is usual English roadster configuration with 28 x 1& 1/2 tyres, single speed coaster brake hub etc. The owner thought it had been in the family since about 1915 but it looks more late twenties or thirties to me. He also said he knew of someone who had had an EMPIRE "Racer" during the early fifties. Any help gratefully received. Thanks, Ian.







AGE / VALUE:   Going for Broke for a Brooks posted by: P.C. Kohler on 1/31/2003 at 3:19:12 AM
Man, I love those Brooks saddlebags as much as anyone but did anyone else follow the "spirited" bidding on this one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=2904&item=2703227176&rd=1

In the end, it cost as much as I paid last week for a 1948 Lenton Clubman, to the penny.

I've got to find someone in Turkey or India to make knock-offs of these wonderful bags.

Clearly, a bicycle is not worth the sum of its parts or, in this case, its accessories.

P.C. Kohler, hoping the new owner doesn't leave this on his bike parked outside unattended!


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Going for broke for a Brooks, if you can find it! posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 1/31/2003 at 7:17:34 PM
( If I'm correct) This is what they call leatherette type material. Yes, the straps are real leather. These are nice, yes. Whoa.. $216.00 was it? hee-hee- hee, (grin)
BUT.... the older bags were better still. They had thicker real all- leather hide throughout. It smelled of leather. They made a wide range of leather cycle bags, cycle boxes, pannier type boxes. Brooks stamped out tools, spanners and yesterday I saw on e- bay something very old but new to me. It was a metal seatpost with the built in seat clamp and the seller said it pre-dates the Campagnolo type.
This bag is about as good as you'll see on e- bay. The older nicer stuff is not even offered and if it is, they go ever higher than this one.
Now my Baycliffe bags are not made in this material but are black vinal-ish with a pressed artificial leather look to it. But they are larger and still very hip looking and they have leather straps.

Now imagine the fellow wheeling out the whole bike and one of these hanging off the back with tools wrapped in a piece of oil soaked cloth and you hear a muffled jingle of tools. The whole bike is a 531 Club bike, with leather seat, alloy rims, bell, rack and of cource this saddle bag.
I got the whole works! Another time I found the fellow removing this bag and had to haggle quickly to avoid it being excluded from the deal. He was going "No, no, I want the bag!" I offerd more and more and then he let go of it and soon was counting bills. It was close but still I got a bargain! People flip for these cycle bags and when a bike is sold they still don't want to let go of these bags. They are not thinking about the tools themselves so much as not letting go of these bags. It's weird!
Unfortunitly, this kind of thing falls into the "Oh, that's not for sale!" catagory or the "Whadda trade me for that?" catagory
The fellow I got the Baycliffe bags from said the word: Racks. I looked up open-mouthed, you have racks? What kinda racks? Metal racks? He grinned at me.
You just don't see these anymore!
I wish Brooks would make a test run of a re-introduction of one of their famous cycle bags from long ago in real leather and offer it for sale to see if it would be a money making idea. Just a few. If a old model would fetch this amount than why not a finely done re- pop? These are almost as well loved and valued and highly regarded as the saddles are still. There is potential in this.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Going for broke for a Brooks, if you can find it! posted by Chris on 1/31/2003 at 7:28:34 PM
No, these are not a thing you can leave on the bike unattended.
The straps on the tops of some of these was for a rolled up rain cape.
Attention must be paid to the straps that can sometimes break, rot or wear and then if you don't watch it you lose the thing or it falls to one side.
The bicycle decal(transfer) dude, Nick at LLoyds in England offers the Cyclo bag loop parts that you sometimes find yourself needing when using these bags.