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Archived: English Roadsters







MISC:   one wierd bike.... posted by: Edward in Vancouver on 3/22/2003 at 4:47:21 AM
Went down to a consignment store and witnessed a really wierd bike. To begin with, it was a trike, two 16" wheels upfront with a 16 x 24" tray, but the frame was Japanese, a'la Dl-1. It was an Apollo, but with plain, straight cut lugs, cottered cranks, and seatstays that bolted onto the seat collar. Even had a braze-on on the right chainstay for what I assume would be for a chaincase. The rear wheel was fat, 26 x 2 x 1 3/4, with nice quality (Ukai?) chrome 40 spk WESTWOOD style rims, and a single speed drumbrake hub. At first glance I assumed it was a S.A. drum, same dimensions, same gray/silver brake plate and fittings, but the chrome hub was stamped:

and then, "made in Japan"
in a style and script that imitates S.A.! The front part of the bike appeared to be a kit, because it bolted onto the downtube and part of it went through the head tube. If you were to remove the kit, you would have a normal roadster frame, albeit minus a front fork. The construction of the kit was top notch, all welded tubes and quality steering components, painted the same as the frame. Looks like it could take some serious weight. The two front wheels had moped style drum brakes.

Has anyone seen anything like this? Anyone heard of Japanese unabashed copies of S.A.drum brakes? I've seen Japanese rubber pedals with "Chair"stamped on them, but...?!







MISC:   Golden Arrow on "the Bay" posted by: Warren on 3/22/2003 at 1:34:09 AM
Here's a nice "transitional" bike for roadster-philes. It's a shame the guy has a high reserve. I want details for $500. Nice crankset but the rest of the pics are not too revealing.


   RE:MISC:   Golden Arrow on posted by Warren on 3/22/2003 at 3:14:07 AM
Ooops...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2165206128&category=420

   RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/22/2003 at 5:15:53 AM
I am in lust...

But.... I thought Raleigh "Golden Arrows", model 41, were supposed to well, GOLD. Even the pump. This is in black; in such condition, I wonder if it's a repaint. Still, jolly nice. Why can't these bonehead bicycle makers today produce bikes that look as racy AND as elegant as this??

P.C. Kohler, tripling his "don't buy another Club Bike" medication

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by Warren on 3/22/2003 at 1:18:51 PM
Maybe it's a war model...wait a minute, that would be white :·) I think Art Smith has a Golden Arrow that is also black or dark blue. Art?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by Chris on 3/22/2003 at 5:58:14 PM
The bike has some nice features. The wingnuts on the front wheel, the fluted Raleigh steel crank with the 3 pins for detaching the crank. The top shifter and the unique, seldom seen handlebars.
The fenders are wrong and the hub is a basic A.W. 3 speed. An earlier one but nothing special.
What type rims? alloy? steel? What? Is this an 531 Reynolds tube bike?
I like the decals.
This has a Chrome fork so I think it is not a war model.
I'm foggy on the Golden Arrow, even though I have this model or a later version of it in my paper files. I have the review somewhere I'm sure.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/22/2003 at 11:23:17 PM
The earliest Raleigh catalogue I have is 1936 and the Golden Arrow (model 41) is in black with a gold head. Forks are black too. In 1937 the machine is gold and fork is gold. The machine was deleted from production.

So what this machine on eBay is, remains a headscatcher. Too much of one for this collector plunk down in excess of $500 and have to go to Boston to pick it up!!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/22/2003 at 11:25:27 PM
Sorry, best complete that sentence: "The model was deleted from production in 1940".

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by Art on 3/23/2003 at 3:04:17 AM
I have a '38 Golden Arrow that I bought from the original owner. It has the same handlebars, and although it is black, it appears that it once was painted gold...which now has a greenish hue to it. Mine was purchased with drum brakes and the S/A hub confirms the year as 1938. I have the heron crank, but mine does not have the pins or rivets that are on this one. Mine came originally with Britannia fenders and after the owner ran into a bus in the 70's, the fenders were replaced with Bluemels. The bike came from Boston and when I got it, in the summer here in Az, the leather Brooks saddle, which was very, very soft and pliable (maybe too soft?) hardened and dried up in the heat and nothing I could do could stop it from cracking. I found the bike on a non-bike site on the net and it looked great with a huge Brooks bag on the rear. It was my touring, English dream bike. The old fellow I bought it from told me so many stories about the bike...his father offered the owner and his brother the choice between buying a jalopy together or each getting their own bikes, his brother choice an Ace, the owner the Golden Arrow...having it stolen in the thirties and getting it back without the saddle or bars....riding from Boston to Canada...that I felt I was adopting one of his children? Alas, when I got the bike, I realized that the top tube and the down tube had bent in the 70's accident. I never felt that the old man deceived me on purpose, and I just kept quiet. I wasn't sure whether to part it out or sell it or what and most recently I removed the fenders and really overhauled it and now use it (and love it) as a beater with a great history. It is an interesting bike and fairly rare, I believe. I paid a good chunk of change for my bike, so while the one of e-bay is a high price, I haven't ever seen another one offered for sale. I was under the impression that 37...that is a 7 on the S/A hub is the first year of production for a particular S/A model hub...and that mine was the second year of production....I might be entirely wrong about this. or it may refer to the drum brake model. I'm not sure. That's my Golden Arrow story.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/23/2003 at 3:36:53 AM
You know, sometimes reading EVERYTHING helps. A lot. I am looking at the 1937 Raleigh catalogue (yes, that lovely 50th anniversary dreamy one with all the gold bits!) and it clearly states in '30s style Gill Sans: "Optional Finish: Black with Raleigh Chromium-plated fork". The AW gear is quite correct too as one had a choice of a wide or close-range three-speed hub. So this is a 1937 machine judging from the date on the hub.

P.C. Kohler


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Golden Arrow on posted by Chris on 3/23/2003 at 9:02:29 PM
Yup, the A.W. is correct I was trying to point out that it was not a rare hub. Not alloy or close ratio, not a four speed either.






AGE / VALUE:   1952 Raleigh red painted posted by: Mario Romano on 3/21/2003 at 9:23:13 PM
Hey pals, give a look at my friend Spitaletti's 1952 Raleigh (with S&A gear hub) and let me know about it's originality, accessory and general coments. Thanx a lot! This bicycle have factory decals on the frame but I think they are recently added to the bike (despite the decals looks very very older).

1952 RALEIGH
http://www.oldroads.com/fdbdown.asp?787







AGE / VALUE:   WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by: Mario Romano on 3/21/2003 at 9:15:50 PM
I want to know which is the accurate measure (in centimeters) to the Raleigh fenders white panels, because I want to correct the bad repainting job that it was made on my fenders. The front fender have no white panel? Appears that my bicycle white panels are lower than the factory standards.


   RE:AGE / VALUE: WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/21/2003 at 10:47:58 PM
On my Raleighs and Rudges c. 1948-1951, the white stripe on the rear mudguard is 9 inches measured on the centre ridge of the mudguards.

I have seen no evidence of factory machines having a white stripe on the front mudguard. Looks nice but it's not authentic, I think.

Centimeters? On a classic BRITISH bicycle? No, sir. Imperial measurements only please.

P.C. Kohler


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by Geo on 3/22/2003 at 11:48:36 PM
Cut Mario some slack here, PC. You don't have metric markings on the other side of the ruler you just used to measure that with? P.S. I like your approach to this hobby Mario, I remember last year seeing that you customized a Brit bike. This board is getting stuffier than the vintage lightwieghts crowd. Ride on Mario. (22.6centimeters is 9inches)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by David Poston on 3/23/2003 at 2:07:55 AM
Take a look at Sheldon Brown's famous 54 Superbe:

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/superbe54.html

It seems to have the white "panel" on the front mudguard. Original or not?

David

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/23/2003 at 2:37:28 AM
Slack? Stuffy? Hey, I'm the one who answered his question!

And yes, sorry to remind, these machines were built and engineered to English imperial measurements. Must we all be compelled to use bloody metric measurements even if means converting from the original? It's NINE INCHES. Period. And let me have a look at my measuring tape; I've never looked to see if it has anything other than inches...

P.C. Kohler, who rides a 23 or 24-INCH frame of Sheffield Steel.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by David on 3/23/2003 at 3:17:50 AM
Sheldon's "famous 54 Superbe" has a mud flap on the front.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by Geo on 3/23/2003 at 5:09:45 AM
PC I believe Mario is in Brazil. Only the UK and USA still use "Imperial" measurements. I figured there probably aren't a zillion rulers measuring in inches in Brazil and that is probably why he asked for the measurement in centimeters. Technically I was the one who answered the question Mario asked which was what is the measurement in centimeters. 9 inches is 22.6 centimeters no matter how you slice it and besides I don't think the bike cares if you use a metric ruler to measure the amount of white paint to slap on the rear FENDER.

George from NEW England who rides a 23" frame of Sheffield Steel but can still adapt to many situations including metric conversions.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by Edward in Vancouver on 3/25/2003 at 3:28:16 PM
Correction, the U.S. is the only industrialized nation to use the imperial system. Mussolinni made the italian trains run on time, and Napolean made France use his Metric system...

   RE:AGE / VALUE: WHITE PANELS MEASURE... posted by Martin Hanczyc on 3/26/2003 at 12:01:42 AM
According to my info, the law was 12 square inches of white.

More info at:
http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/'hanczyc/whitepatch.html
that's a tidle before hanczyc






AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by: Mario Romano on 3/21/2003 at 1:50:31 AM
Hey pals, I recently bought a Raleigh 1954 and kustomized a Rudge 1952. Give a look at my pictures and let me know about this bicycles originality, style, manufacture era and general coments. Thanx.

1954 Raleigh (Club or Roadster?)
http://www.oldroads.com/fdbdown.asp?787
1952 Rudge Kustomized by CSB
http://www.oldroads.com/fdbdown.asp?790


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by Warren on 3/21/2003 at 3:30:04 AM
The '54 roadster probably has a bad repaint...the white panels are all wrong on the fenders, the front shouldn't have any white. I think the rear relflector housing should be black. Grips don't look original. I don't think the hockey stick chainguard isn't right for two reasons. It was likely enclosed and even if it wasn't, that doesn't look like a Raleigh chainguard. Seat looks wrong but nice. Still an interesting bike and a 22 inch frame is harder to find.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by M.R. on 3/21/2003 at 1:11:34 PM
I can't say anything about the Rudge, but the "Raleigh" looks like an Indian, or African bike. Some did in fact have white flags on the front fenders. If I had to guess, I'd say made in India.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by David on 3/21/2003 at 6:32:14 PM
Is is my eyes... or are the frame angles of the Raleigh here somewhat more 'relaxed' than the DL1 Roadsters sold in US? It's typical of Indian bikes and they look more 'laid back' to me than my bike. Is it true?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by Mario Romano on 3/21/2003 at 9:07:47 PM
The paintwork quality I consider good, but I really don't know that the white panels was repainted wrong and it must be a big big mistake from the bicycle restaurationer) what is the factory standard?). The rear reflector, the hockey stick chainguard, the handlebar grips and the saddle leather ISN'T ORIGINAL, I KNOW! Despite these parts are not factory original ones, the bicycle is english-made and have serial number that shows it's english procedence. Thanx!


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by Mario Romano on 3/21/2003 at 9:12:09 PM
The flag was installed on the bicycle fender by myself and really isn't original. The bicycle have a serial number that proofs it's english-made procedence and, how I said, the handlebar grips, chainguard, saddle leather are non-original parts and the restauration have a good quality paintwork despite the restaurationer repainted the white panels COMPLETELY WRONG AS I KNOW!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   URGENT HELP NEEDED posted by Geo on 3/23/2003 at 12:04:51 AM
Hey Mario, I like the custom, it's plenty original. It's an original paint scheme. The whole bike has a relaxed warm climate summertime look to it and it looks like it was done by someone with the same passion for great bikes as anyone else here. As far as this original "period correct" ect. rhetoric we should look to our British motorcycle brethren. Anyone here ever hear of a Triton. I have what I call a Raliegh-Hood. Built out of a couple of beaters from the trash heap it's a customized half Raleigh half Robin Hood beast that looks sharp and rides as good as anything else. Does it need the original tires(not tyres) and grease to be a good bike. I don't think so. I try to make every ride I have original. I don't think there's anything wrong with any of Mario's bikes.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Serial numbers posted by: Peter on 3/20/2003 at 12:05:15 PM
Does anyone know if the Raleigh/Rudge/Humber badge-engineered frames from the 1950s followed a common numbering system, or were there separate series for Rudge and Humber 'Raleighs'?

Peter.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Serial numbers posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/20/2003 at 4:12:18 PM
Good question!

Look, let's be honest... how many of you have Raleigh Industries products whose serial numbers don't conform at all to the posted "charts"? Sorry, but more research is required as these charts simply do not jibe with the steel sitting next to me:

1948 Raleigh Dawn serial no. 47820AJ
1949 Rudge Super Safety serial no. 70818AT
1951 Rudge De Luxe Sports Tourist serial 70721BD

According to the published charts the letters date from 1955 or later!

Did the folks at Raleigh meet one day and say... hmmm, let's devise the most arcane and confusing codes imaginable to bugger about collectors 75 years from now? I rather think they did. Why couldn't they just use serial numbers with 49 or what as a date code?? No wonder the British broke the Enigma code in WW2-- they love this stuff!!

P.C. Kohler

PS: anyone got a clue as to the date of a Raleigh with a serial no. 74090AH??

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Serial numbers posted by David Poston on 3/20/2003 at 6:33:08 PM
If Raleigh is that hard to date, how on earth will I find a date on my New Hudson, possibly made by BSA no less? I guess I'm just plumb out of luck here.

By the way, what "charts" are we referring to here?

David

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Serial numbers posted by Scott on 3/21/2003 at 3:06:35 AM
I have also never found the serial numbers charts to be of any use to help identify the year of any Raleigh Bicycle. The serial number charts have only proven to be misleading. I have found though that information from Raleigh vintage catalogs, Sheldon Brown’s website and Tony Hadland’s book “ The Sturmey- Archer Story” to be very helpful.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Serial numbers posted by Scott on 3/21/2003 at 3:07:03 AM
I have also never found the serial numbers charts to be of any use to help identify the year of any Raleigh Bicycle. The serial number charts have only proven to be misleading. I have found though that information from Raleigh vintage catalogs, Sheldon Brown’s website and Tony Hadland’s book “ The Sturmey- Archer Story” to be very helpful.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Serial numbers posted by Mario Romano on 3/22/2003 at 12:17:56 AM
Dear Mr. Kohler, I saw that the Raleigh bicycles and other british bikes have it's white stripes (or panels) painted white only on the rear fender (or mudguard). A good way I discovered for make a perfect repainting according to factory standards is measure the equal distance using the hole were the fender nut are placed...

| |
| | --> black painted
|---|
| |
| . | --> white painted panel, the "." is the hole
| | were the fender nut are placed
\ /
\ /

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Serial numbers posted by Mario Romano on 3/22/2003 at 12:18:46 AM
Dear Mr. Kohler, I saw that the Raleigh bicycles and other british bikes have it's white stripes (or panels) painted white only on the rear fender (or mudguard). A good way I discovered for make a perfect repainting according to factory standards is measure the equal distance using the hole were the fender nut are placed...

| |
| | --> black painted
|---|
| |
| . | --> white painted panel, the "." is the hole
| | were the fender nut are placed
\ /
\ /






MISC:   Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by: J. M. Vernooy on 3/19/2003 at 12:23:27 PM
Just used a new, new for me at least, way of removing the right hand ball ring from a Sturmey Archer hub. Some say use a drift punch and hammer or a C spanner. But what if neither works? The other day I had a hub to open with the wheel built up and tire and tube on. Having the wheel built up with tire on makes this method easier. A hammered punch wouldn't get the ball ring to budge and neither would any of my spanners. So I put two plain L-shaped 4mm allen wrenches with their long end at the spanner notches and put it in a vise, allen wrenches at the spanner notches and turned it off much like a freewheel. No guaranties, but it worked for me without any damage. Certainly if I had continued fighting it with a punch there would have been damage. Just thought that passing this on as a possible just-before-desperation solution might save some spanner notches on the Sturmey Archer ball rings.
John
(Repairing SA AW hubs from age 10 - Properly from age 12)


   RE:MISC:Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by Chris on 3/19/2003 at 6:24:02 PM
I contacted the company back in 1987 and said I didn't want to use a hammer and punch and after a brief silence and because I said that I was a fan who collected the old tools and that I wanted that specific tool to remove this ball cup. The fellow said yes, there was a tool made for that and that they didn't get too many requests these days for it but I was still able to buy it.
It's like a large C spanner with a handle.
You are supposed to align the circled SA mark with a spoke and be sure to re-start the screwing back in with that so the hub or wheel is back in properly and not out of whack.
Where and on whos site I cannot remember.
Probably, at Tony Hadlands web site Hadland.net
Yes, the service notes section on re- assembling an A.W. That's it.
Read all that, he says it better than I can and more acurately

   RE:RE:MISC:Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/19/2003 at 8:45:49 PM
That's the spanner that I was refering to. But there are times when even that one won't do. And yes, you are right about the fact that you must put the ball ring back the same way. It has a double spiral of threads. That's two places the threads can start 180 degerees different. If you start it the wrong place the wheel will have to be re-dished as one set of threads in the hub end further in than the other. The best instructions that I have seen so far is in one of the early editions of "Glenn's Complete Bicycle Repair". That has only one error and it's non critical. Looks like the proof reader may have messesd it up. It's about being able to change the right hand bearing cone after assembly. Says it is not accessible because the cog will make it impossible to reach which is not so on any AW that have seen except one that had a multiple cog setup adapted on to it. That may be what they meant to say but didn't. The Sturmey Archer manuals are good of course as is Sutherland's but the Glenn's is better illustrated. Haven't looked at Tony Hadland's lately for the AW, but I will. His tech manuals on some of the other Sturmey Archer hubs, that I have looked at recently, are excellent. Don't mean to sound too know-it-all-y but I've been working on these hubs for 40 years. But between the ages of 10 and 12 I really wasn't very good at it. Now I've worked on ones that I own at the dinner table while eating dinner. Like normal people read the newspaper. (Not reccomended, but I'll probably do it again. ) Never did this with one owned by a customer though.

   RE:MISC:   Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by David on 3/20/2003 at 11:23:39 AM
I got a spanner from Persons-Majestic which had rounded tabs instead of squared-off ones. I suppose the new AWs have deeper round cutouts rather than the shallow channels on the old ball cups. I ground the tabs down in an attempt to make the "right" tool for old AWs, but it wasn't satisfactory. I am curious about marking the position of the ball cup. Is it possible to mark it so you know where to start threading it on? Or are you forced to wait until it's assembled (but not tightened, I hope!) before you can check that it's not 180 deg off?

   RE:RE:MISC: Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/20/2003 at 11:49:41 AM
Well, if you could mark the ball ring and hub shell just as it is coming off of the threads. But I never tried that. I've always used the mark it before loosening then when putting it back together thread it on this way and hand tighten if the marks line up, ok method. If not, turn 180 degrees and try again.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by Peter on 3/20/2003 at 12:03:47 PM
I've never been sure about the purpose of the relationship between ball cup and shell. All the AW shells I've looked at have two screw threads, but they are not 180 deg apart, they start together.
I appreciate that there are two possible ways the threads can engage, and I suppose this could make a difference to whether the ball cup 'seats' properly in the shell, but I'ver never managed to put one in 'wrong', i.e. it won't screw up tight and flush.

In answer to David, I don't think there is a way of knowing where to start threading it on - I think it is trial and error - you have to assemble it to see if your original marks line up.


Peter

Lastly - does anyone know how the setting was acheived in the factory when the unit was first assembled and there were no marks to go by?

If you have lost the registration marks - cleaned them off for example, can the original position be discovered any other way?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/20/2003 at 12:09:45 PM
There has to be a relationship between where the ball ring is when it is on and when it is off. I just never thought about it. It does seem that I get it right the first time more often than wrong the first time. Maybe I'm recognizing that relationship subconsciously most times. Knowing the relationship and using it could shave another 30 seconds off the proceedure, Good question.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/20/2003 at 12:30:45 PM
"Southerland's Handbook For Bicycle Mechanics" says that the hub may have a double start thread. And it says that "If the ball ring is replaced on the opposite position, the wheel may need retruing. A lot of "may"s. They say in this edition from 1985 to mark the ball ring nearest lubricator. Unfortunatly, for more reasons than this, new AW hubs don't have a lubricator. I don't see where Srrurmey Archer's oun tech sheet says anything about it. But they also don't tell you how to judge when the axle key is too worn to use nor that the old model clutch spring caps have to be put back on before the driver because the older spring caps are too large to fit through the driver's bearings. Then again, they are also the ones who decided the lubricator port was obsolete.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Removing ball cup from AW hub posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/20/2003 at 12:33:12 PM
Please forgive miss-spellings in my previous post. It's early in the morning.






AGE / VALUE:   Hercules 1946 head badge posted by: Matthew on 3/18/2003 at 6:47:30 PM
Here's how I arrived at the understanding that Raleigh took Hercules in 1946 and the head badge changed to the aluminium H. I am the custodian for the V-CC girls loop framed cycle, a 20" wheeled miniature of the grown up cycle. As I was interested in what I was looking after and as I had a trade bike (cycle truck) with the same head badge I thought I would research the history of the machines. I wrote to the chap who was the Hercules 'marque enthusiast' in the V-CC. He was not pprompt in replying but was very dismissive of any machine with the aluminium head badge. He told me that all such machines were of little interest and were 'Raleigh TI' Hercules post 1946. He could be wrong and I was not impressed by his dismissal. I must point out this is NOT AT ALL the normal attitude in the V-CC. On the whole V-CC members are helpful, kind and inclusive. I wouldn't be a member if there were many like him.
That's where my information came from, it could well be dodgy so I am more than willing to stand corrected again!
Thank you for being patient and kind enough to read my meanderings.
Matthew, considering a fleet review and pssible thining out.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 3/18/2003 at 11:46:59 PM
I read a book and remember this from it. I forget the title. This guy was being considered for a raise in salary and a new better position with the company. However they were going to test him first and test him they did.
He was asked to deliver a certain blue vase to the boss before his train left the station.
No big deal to do right?
Wrong. They put him thru murder to see what would happen. They arranged wierd things to happen to him to hinder him. The vase ended up costing thousands. The store was closed prematurely. They gave wrong instructions, they changed the shop sign, the shop owner was in on it. The boss gave more than one train station location and the man ran around going crazy but he was determined to not let his commander down. He was gonna deliver that cursed blue vase at all costs. He has this wild adventure and flys ahead and stops the train and gets on and gives the old startled man the vase and when he learns it was a test he is floored and complains at the treatment he recieved and he's thinking the boss is sadistic. Here it was a test and he gets the huge salary increase and is promoted over a lot of other people. They wanted to see what he was made of.

To get the answers you seek this will be like retrieving a small blue vase. It won't be easy and you'll have to be persistent and not be put off and perhaps somebody has been changing the signs on you.Who knows?
My Hercules has a aluminum silver colored badge that is 5 times as thick as a normal badge.This for sure is original Hercules. It won't be easy buy we can assemble a Hercules timeline and get to the bottom of this. The blue vase is still out there and while it won't be easy it can be retrieved.
I have had to be devilishly persistent and dig and dig and ask and ask.
I have a A.M.F. Hercules ladies frame made by Raleigh in my garage and I know it's a ladies frame and a Raleigh made one as well. It does not call out to be ridden and is no real gem but I would say this to the guy you dealt with.
"Yes,it's a Raleigh and a ladies frame but: You just don't see any of these anymore!"

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/19/2003 at 12:17:37 AM
I'm not claiming to be correct, I wasn't there whenever Raleigh took control of Hercues Cycles. There are various places where I got the idea that 1960 was when Raleigh took control of Hercules Cycle. One was that Sheldon Brown said it was so. The big changes in Hercules bicycles also seem to begin at east around that year. The brakes by 1969 were Raleigh brakes. Before that they were Phillips brakes. The fenders in 1962 were not the same as had been on Hercules bicycles in 1960 and before. While this does not prove anything, it does seem to point to a more Raleigh based Hercules. I say more Raleigh based because Sturmey Archer was supplying rims and rear hub and Brooks was supplying saddles before 1960, both, I beleive, Raleigh owned. While I'm tempted to be a bit unsettled by hearing that anyone was dismissive of Hercules, I have seen that many of the bicycles brands that Raleigh took over became second rate compared to the Raleigh branded line. Also, while there were some years that Hercules bicycles had an aluminum head badge, I have a 1962 that is brass. As Hercules, as well as Phillips, are usually said to have been owned by BSA previous to TI Raleigh's takeover, could the use of an aluminum head badge have started in 1946 as an result of a wartime and after wartime brass shortage? My 1960 Hercules has an aluminum head badge but my 1962 Hercules has a brass headbadge. Could it have taken Hercules that long to change back to brass? I don't know. I will have to check at work tomorrow, but I think that Sutherlands repair manual also lists 1960 as the changeover for the thread pitch of the bottom bracket and headset of Hercules and Phillips bicycles and others from the British standard to the Raleigh standard. It will take a lot to convince me that Raleigh had Hercules before 1960. Not trying to be difficult. Just what I think. Though some would say "what's the difference?".

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/19/2003 at 5:54:35 AM
Now I am getting CONFUSED!!

THE merger, the great union of Tube Investments (British Cycle Corp): Phillips:Norman:Sun:Hercules:BSA:Sunbeam:New Hudson and Raleigh:Rudge:Humber:Robin Hood:Triumph was begun in 1958 and finished by 1960.

Remember this was done as follows: TI bought out Raleigh, lock stock and barrel, but handed over the management of British Cycle Corp. to Raleigh! The reason was simple: Raleigh had the name recognition. It was decided to reduce the number of brand names, change everything over to Raleigh patterns, 26 tpi etc and concentrate production in Nottingham. This took time of course but by 1960 it was essentially a done deal. If you bought a British bike, it was a Raleigh product in specs and manufacture. Remember, too, that even prior to the merger, Raleigh used TI tubing and also supplied components to British Cycle Corp.

I have Hercules, BSA, New Hudson and Phillips catalogues all dating from 1957, just before the "end": they all share a similar non Raleigh "look" and the machines are clearly British Cycle Corp. productions not Raleigh.

Any Hercules dating from pre-1958 is a "real" Herc.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Tim Powell on 3/19/2003 at 10:36:21 AM
My first brand new bike was a Hercles. It was bought for me by my father as a reward for passing my 11 plus exams in 1961. The bike had a decal head badge not aluminium. It wa bougt from a shop in Cardiff South Wales and had been in stock for a while according to my dad. Most kids wanted drop handlebar racers back then. Based on this I would think that 1960 is probably the last date of the 'true' Hercules, although there is nothing wrong with the machines Raleigh made under the Hercules name.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/19/2003 at 11:44:15 AM
PC, That's more precise than the way I said it. I was only looking at it from a Hercules Cycles point of view, but you're telling it the way I had beleived it to be. Right. Begun in 1958. Finished in 1960. 1960 Hercules was owned by Raleigh as well as the other British bicycle you listed. Of course it was TI Raleigh. But it does appear, from the only evidence that I can put my hands on, the bicycles themselves, that the Raleigh influence in manufacturing Hercules bicycles was gradual during the first few years after 1960. I don't doubt that Hercules was very likely controled by Raleigh as early as 1958, but from my 1960 Hercules I have seen that there was no obvious Raleigh influence that can be seen, or measured. I'm still going to look at the Sutherlands manual to get the info on the date of the thread pitch changes, which I beleive was also 1960 or soon thereafter. If PC Kohler and Sheldon Brown say the date that Hercules Cycle was officially a Raleigh brand was 1960, then I'll agree with them until I see overwhelming proof to the contrary.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by P.C. Kohler on 3/19/2003 at 2:37:14 PM
The Story of the Raleigh Cycle by Gregory Houston Bowden has quite a bit on the merger of TI and Raleigh. Worth checking out.

One thing to remember is the dire straits of the British cycle industry around 1958 that precipitated this merger. Sales slumped badly, both the home and export market. In England, hire purchase schemes (introduced with bicycles before the war!) for motorcars became widespread, there was the moped craze and all that wartime pent-up demand for cycles was long satisfied. In the USA, high tariffs hurt imports and the bike craze hadn't quite arrived. Traditional Empire markets, India and Africa etc., were no longer buying British cycles but Indian and locally made ones. Thus, 1958-1960 was when all this happened and for all the right reasons: survival.

If you are studying Hercules, the essential thing to keep in mind is that this was an EXPORT driven company. They accounted for something like one-third of ALL British cycle exports after the War. They dominated the West African markets in a way Raleigh could but dream. Hercules were masters of promotion; the first neon signs in Lagos and Kano, Nigeria, were at the Hercules showrooms! A tribal chieftan could have 26 brides but what he wanted was a new Hercules roadster. With independence (1958), Nigeria and the Gold Coast, I think, insisted, as did India and Pakistan, on local production of cycles instead of imports from Birmingham. Indeed, the spur to the merger between TI and Raleigh had more to do with market conditions aboard (South Africa) than in England at the time.

Finally, if you do that website, you simply MUST contact the buyer of that wonderful Hercules catalogue (1938 I think) offered on eBay and see if he can supply you with some scans. This had the most wonderful colour photos of the machine in famous London location and with famous stars and personalities of the era. Just delightful! Surely folks on this site have this and other Hercules catalogues.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Tim Powell on 3/19/2003 at 3:06:57 PM
Intersesting point about Hercules and export. I recently purchased a selection of NOS varnish fix decals from a guy advertising in the VCC magazine. Several of them had names like TAUTPERE, DEFIANT, DREADNOUGHT, DAUNTLESS, but all had 'Manufactured by the Hercules Cycle and Motor Company'. Judging by the style of the label it looks like 1930's. It may be that these are for motor cycles but I doubt it as some have a picture of a cyclist. I did try to find out where the guy got them from but no luck. Still £5 for 15 assorted decals was pretty good value.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 3/19/2003 at 6:11:25 PM
What was happening was not immediately reported in the Cycling press of the time. Articles were delayed before they were sent to press. Interviews and factory vists were done but they were asked to wait before it was let known. They had their hands full and tried to get this done in as much of a low key manner as possible. Perhaps that true? I dunno. I have one article about a visit that was done and it was delayed 3 years before it was published.
I read last night that in 1963, the Phillips Credenda Works was being utilized to manfacture some of the Brooks items. Not so much the saddles part it seems all that was made at Brook's factory but the saddle bag's and/ or that some realted hardware was made at Credenda works. ( I am sickened when I think of all those lovely pedals being made and then not soon after, the Raleigh's had Union pedals from Germany!) Urp, Oh! The whole pedal sections, gutted!)
I'm still sesarching out information on the Credenda Works( They made pedals there) and when it was closed for good and what happened after that and what is there today, is the building still standing? I think P.C. said it wery well.
We still have not tracked down what went where. Who bought what. Ok, Raleigh took control.A change over to Raleigh patterns and I mourn the loss of the distinct individuality that each brand offered. Why do you think I prefer original Hercules cycles? Did Raleigh hire 10,000 garbage trucks and converge and clean up everything? A massave auction? Has anybody read about a huge auction? Anybody remember what happened to the material? Was there brokers buying up old inventory? Was it destroyed? Sent overseas someplace? I'm asking specifically.
Yes, I know that it was likely a mixture of all that. I have asked some folks who I think would know and they grin and give a vague answer like "Probably a mixture of all that!" Problem is I'm being nosey, and it's something one does not ask about perhaps? and usually they don't remember or even know. It has been years now.
These individual companies were huge and they had collections of past cycles and parts for historical/ archive purposes. I'm not talking about paper notes right now, but collections and also back inventory as well. I hope to eventually hear from somebody who will say " I was there, this is what happened"
Past employees, people who saw and remember. Whoever was in the business of hauling away stuff before it was left to the trash company. That's who has the answers.
Perhaps past employees have been told to keep out of it and to keep quiet. Yes, something like that. Think about it! We would know far more otherwise wouldn't we? Yes, it's true that it's a job and after work they don't care. Myself, not living in England and not having access to people and not getting to do actual research there keeps me out of the game basically. I hope to see somebody who can pick it up and carry it through and any web site page will be welcomed. This really bites, because I want to poke about and write the books and see the stash and hear the tales! Oh Well.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Ian on 3/19/2003 at 7:24:51 PM
I have a glossy 45 page booklet published by the British Cycle Corp in July 1958 which definitely lists Hercules as one of the brands they owned at this time. It gives a potted history of each make and says the Hercules Cycle & Motor Co was formed in 1910 but it does not say when it was taken over by B.C.C. It does show a drawing of the badge with "Hercules Birmingham England" in two lines on it. Hope this helps, Ian.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/20/2003 at 4:24:51 AM
Many thanks to all who have posted to my request for Hercules info. As to where the stock of parts for Hercules and other brands swallowed by Raleigh went, it looks like there was possibly a five year perioud of change over. I may be dreaming but I would like to think that nothing was waisted. After all, the mergers were for survival, and companies, all the brands taken in by Raleigh, were in no condition to afford throwing out anything that could be used in production. I also found the reference in "Southerland's Handbook for Bicycle Mechanics, fourth edition 1985" to the change in headset and bottom bracket threading. It says the changes in thread pitch from 24TPI to 26TPI occured on all bicycle brands made by Raleigh after 1963, except Carlton which used 24TPI. Plus the changes in Hercules bicycles seems to be mostly, if not all, after 1963. So if Hercules, Phillips and the others knew in 1958 that the merger was in their future, then that gives them 5 years to use up any excess stock of parts. Even if they began using up excess parts stocked in 1960, that still gives them 3 years to make the change from Hercules and Phillips parts to Raleigh parts. A 1962 Hercules had Phillips brakes and by 1969 they were Raleigh brakes. But the 1962 hercules has Raleigh fenders. So it looks like the mixing by 1962 was obvious but it still looks more like a Hercules than a Raleigh. Whereas by 1969 it was obviously a Raleigh.
As for the nice parts that were on some of theose bicycles, my 1960 Hercules came with white finger grips that looked like the DARE brand that Raleigh used in black. And white bow pedals that were able to be fully disassembled for lubrication and repair. (Any one know where I can get the replacement rubber blocks for those?!) I should have put those grips and pedals into a climate controlled safe. If I had only known what the future would bring I would have been afraid to ride that bicycle. Instead I was only very disappointed and slightly suspicious when in about two years we tried to find replacement fenders, as the original rear fender had already cracked due to metal fatigue, and Montgomery Wards said they could no longer get fenders for the Hercules they had sold only two years before. If anyone want to see the parts list for a 1960 Hercules the following URL should take you there:
http://threespeedbicycles.angelcities.com/Hercules_1960_docs/Parts_list.html
Please have patience, it loads slowly. For a look at the pedals, click on the link to the back at the bottom of the page. Sorry, as you already know, those parts can't be ordered new from Hercules, but a surprising number of them can be found at VVVintage and Ebay either NOS or used. But the white bow pedal blocks part number MH87/2W? Oh, and one pedal dust cap part number MH43/1? Did someone say something about a time machine?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Chris on 3/20/2003 at 8:18:29 PM
A tale I was told:
After the fellow who ran and looked after that retired (or was it passed away?)
Anyways after he was not there they decided to get rid of it all and the entire batch of decals was burned on purpose at lunch time and they stood around to watch.

I cannot remember if the fellow who told me this tale said that they burned the building and everything in it or not. Or just the material itself and they left the building alone? Anyways, this is what I was told. I was referred to the Vetrans Club and no mention was made of other sources for decals.
Perhaps the fellow was telling me something not quite true?
There is urban legend and truth and sometimes it's mixed together.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Tim on 3/21/2003 at 12:03:19 PM
I have had another look at the NOS Hercules Varnish Fix decals I bought. They are definately Hercules and were obviously for UK Cycles and export models. I still have the contact Email address for the guy who was selling them if anyone is interested. They are definately pre 1940 in design.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Chris on 3/21/2003 at 8:02:14 PM
The Raleigh "Dare" grips were offered in greyish white (grey) also but the black ones are more common.
Sheldon Brown has reproduction Raleigh "Dare" grips for sale at his web site at: http://www.Sheldonbrown.com The Harris cycle section
These are good reproductions.
The original grips that came on the Raleigh's had the word dare written or actually stamped into the handlebar grip.

What's the story with that? Did Raleigh make these in house or were these brought in from another company who supplied them to Raleigh?
Oh Well.
The vintage British bicycles has a wide variety of handlebar grips. Diffrent colors, diffrent styles, many diffrent companies making them.
They were real rubber and artfully made and they were cool!

My personal favorites are the older and more rare "chubbie style" grips. Big, thick and wonderful to grip onto as you ride. I have bought an entire bike just to get a set of those grips.
The fellow was looking at me look at the bike and I'm standing there with eyes big as saucers and I wisper " It has those grips!" He's saying "So? big deal!" I grab the bike and ask "How Much?"
John Bull Rubber company made those grips and others too. These had the Raleigh logo on them. Big thick grey grips.
The racing and touring machines had these in diffrent styles thin, thick, long, short.
A pet peeve is finding a English bicycle with Schwinn grips on it. AACK! I'd rather see the bare handlebar than that.

I have a set of Baily bend chrome handlebars off of a an old Raleigh. It's a weird bend,very cool but very weird.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/22/2003 at 2:33:12 PM
The grips on this 1960 Hercules Hawthorn were definitely white. They may not have been "Dare" branded but exactly the same design, finger moulded shape on bottom and soft ribs on the top.The shop where I work also gets what I think, (I'm the one who orders them), are the grips that Harris cycle sells. I've bought a bunch of them myself for my bicycles. Where I order them they call them "VAR" brand. The only obvious difference from the original "Dare" grip is that they don't have a small round hole at the end as many other grips do. But no white ones are available from that distributor. I asked. The other day my boss asked me when I'm moving to England. I told him that I didn't have plans to move there, possibly visit though, someday. Anyway some of these parts that I'm looking for probably are one's that were made for U.S. only. White grips, white bow pedals, on a Metalic Red cantilever frame and a chromed front carrier, and a two tone mattress saddle, doesn't that sound like appeasement of Americans who thought that Schwinn was "The" bicycle?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by Chris on 3/23/2003 at 9:05:17 PM
Well said. Yes you look at some of these 3 speed English Racers and they look a lot like somebody was trying to blend in.
The cantileavered frame English bikes are a joy to ride.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Hercules 1946 head badge posted by anthony on 3/23/2003 at 11:40:43 PM
I am very interested in your email dddress for the fellow with pre 1940's Hercules decals. I own a 1936 ladies Herc and need the chaincase cover plate decal etc






WANTED:   ENGLISH ROADSTER, RALEIGH HERCULES 50'S posted by: ron on 3/18/2003 at 11:54:35 AM
28 inch rod brake bike, must have enclosed chain guard
thankyou, will pay GOOD $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!
ron


   RE:WANTED:   ENGLISH ROADSTER, RALEIGH HERCULES 50'S posted by Matthew on 3/18/2003 at 6:46:22 PM
Am I alone in wondering why nobody replies to Ron's repeated postings? I haven't got what you want Ron and I can't help you but either you don't get the message that no one is willing to sell to you and / or the discussion board isn't the place to advertise for purchasing. Maybe trawling through e-bay would be more productive. What do other readers think?
Matthew

   RE:RE:WANTED:   ENGLISH ROADSTER, RALEIGH HERCULES 50'S posted by M.R. on 3/18/2003 at 6:51:02 PM
Oh, absolutely! Everyone here is looking for exactly the same thing! eBay, or the internet are the way to go. There is a guy in Chicago who has exactly what he is looking for :British Bobby bicycle. Raleigh DL-1. Large frame. 37-1/2. seat height. Good condition. $275. crawford@fnal.gov or x2394

   mathew posted by ron on 3/19/2003 at 12:35:50 AM
If your not in the position in accommodating my WANTS do not reply, it is as simple as that, and for your info I receive at least 2 replies a week, if your looking for the same bike maybe you should try my method it works I have already purchased three.

   RE:mathew posted by Cat Stevens on 3/19/2003 at 2:25:54 AM
It's called a DISCUSSION BOARD, which accounts for the open discussion that normally ensues when a thread is started. I'm terribly sorry that you have to put up with people discussing things on a discussion board.

   RE RE RE:WANTED: ENGLISH ROADSTER, RALEIGH HERCULES 50'S posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/19/2003 at 1:27:11 PM
Ron congratulations on your success. Can any of us here say that we don't rely on the patience of others sometimes when we are searching for a bicycle or part that we are after? Ron has his ways I have mine and others have theirs. Please no copy cats, but I think I am getting accustomed to Ron's method of shaking out some roadsters. Ron, if you ever do stop these wanted postings please let us know that you are ok and what you have found or whatever. Even if you don't stop your wanted postings please tell us what you have found or whatever if it is relevant. Have you posted pictures on the oldroads database or elsewhere on the web? Maybe if the world can see enough DL-1's and similar bicycles there will be a resurgence in the style. Just think, Raleigh is ready to get bicyles made in a country where roadsters rule. Well, Raleigh are you listening? Are any of your factory workers putting the suggestion in the suggestion box that there might be a few in the U.K. or the U.S. who would go to their Raleigh dealer to see a brand new DL-1 that looks just like a 1952 DL-1 and be so taken with a bicycle that is so nearly perfect that they start buying them? A little off the mark, sorry. But Ron how about something besides if not instead of your wanted postings.

   RE:WANTED:   ENGLISH ROADSTER, RALEIGH HERCULES 50'S posted by Matthew on 3/19/2003 at 7:27:04 PM
Ron, you seem rattled by my posting, which was not my intention. I hoped, and was successful, in raising some discussion about your messages. I'm not looking for any cycles right now as I have sufficient for my wants. It is good that your messages provide you with the cycle(s)you want and that revelation is interesting as I had, incorrectly, imagined that your repeated messages were as a result of non reply from readers. I wish you every success.

Matthew

Ps. It is a small thing but important to me, there are two T's in my name.

   I LOVE YOU GUYS posted by ron on 3/20/2003 at 12:31:36 PM
for those involved in this thank you, but not to change subject I still would love it if you kept your eyes open for me, i have celeb status now.

   RE:WANTED:   ENGLISH ROADSTER, RALEIGH HERCULES 50'S posted by Jim on 3/21/2003 at 4:19:34 AM
I have two Raleigh bikes from the 1950s. I don't know anything about the model designations. If you want more information, please let me know.






WANTED:   Reflective tires posted by: David on 3/18/2003 at 11:21:51 AM
Does anyone know of a source (or even who makes!!) Sports or Roadster tires with a reflective sidewall?


   RE:WANTED:   Reflective tires posted by Warren on 3/18/2003 at 2:08:27 PM
I heard that the Conti Top Touring tires have white rflective sidewalls but when I checked at Harris (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/590.html) they state that the tires are all black. Maybe email Sheldon at Harris Cyclery.

   RE:WANTED:   Reflective tires posted by David on 3/19/2003 at 3:47:29 AM
I was over at Harris this afternoon and they thought Vredestein made them. They thought they might have one or two socked away somewhere but not 590mm size.






MISC:   Dating Raleighs posted by: Wayne on 3/17/2003 at 7:34:33 PM
I just helped a poster date an older Raleigh, and realized
that there is a bit of information we don't have.
That is a list of all the different Raleigh factories (world
wide) and the code letters they used. I am asking "OldRoads"
members for help on this one. If you have any Raleighs from
the 70's or 80's which used the serial number system with 2
leading letters, followed by a multi-digit number, how about
letting us know of any previously unknown factory codes?
The factory code is the first letter of the serial number.
I will start out with the 3 I know of;
N for Nottingham England
W for Woksop England
R for Canada
Even if you don't know what the factory is, post any
codes that you may have seen, and I'll try to compile as
complete a list as I can.
People talk about information on old bikes disappearing
for ever, well this is a chance to help keep it available.
When it is reasonably complete, I will hand it over to
Oldroads for posting.
I do know that this system is used on both the roadsters
and the lightweights of that era, so I am posting this
message in both conferences.
Wayne







AGE / VALUE:   Age of Raleigh bicycle posted by: Alison on 3/17/2003 at 1:11:28 AM
I found a Raleigh Sprite with the following serial number:

HG5336964

Can you please tell me the year in which it was manufactured?

If not, can you give me some resources to check out?

Thanks

Alison


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Age of Raleigh bicycle posted by Wayne on 3/17/2003 at 7:32:30 PM
Hi,
From what I know of the way that Raleigh dated their bikes,
yours appears to use the numbering system from the seventies
and eighties.
The first letter(H)would be for the factory that made it.
(I have no idea which one used "H").
The second letter (G) was for the fortnight (4 week period)in which it was made. This would be approximately June of the year.
The first number (5) would be the last digit of the year in which it was made, 1975 probably, or if it seems too new, 1985.
The rest of the serial number is a consecutive number unique to the bike.
I first saw this system explained on another website
"Retro Raleighs", and everytime I have used it on a bike, it has worked. Until now, I have only seen 3 letters used for the factory (although I am sure there were more). They are
N for Nottingham England, W for Woksop England (where the "professional" bikes were made, and R for the Canadian factory.
I hope this helps,
Wayne

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Age of Raleigh bicycle posted by J. M. Vernooy on 3/18/2003 at 12:16:58 PM
Wayne, Isn't fortnight 2 weeks long? I thought that it's a shortening of fourteen nights. I just looked it up in Webster's dictionary, he agreed with me. But as Americans we could be wrong about English.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Age of Raleigh bicycle posted by Wayne on 3/18/2003 at 7:50:16 PM
Yep, you are right. Lets just say I had an elder's moment...
That makes the month of manufacture either late March or
early April.
See, I have gotten too used to metric. I'm starting to get
rusty on that stuff .
Later,
Wayne






MISC:   Hercules Threaded Driver Hub posted by: bacoes on 3/16/2003 at 11:47:23 PM
I found an old Hercules B Type 4 hub today. It uses a threaded freewheel. I was curious if anyone has tried to do a ASW-style fixed setup with one.


   RE:MISC:   Hercules Threaded Driver Hub posted by Chris on 3/17/2003 at 11:59:25 PM
Go to Sheldonbrown.com
the Raleigh bicycle section of this huge marvelous web page of his. Find the articles section on hybrid gearing.
and or the glossery where you type in "threaded driver"
he has a whole article on how to do what you are asking about.

Also type in Hercules under search here at oldroads.com
good luck. Any questions? ask here!






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Frame posted by: Mark on 3/16/2003 at 4:11:18 AM
I've been away for a while. Is there anyone selling Forevers these days? I have two Brits., a beater 69-70? 5 speed Sprite and a 66 ladies DL1. I'd like to start to put together another 28" rod brake roadster. Does anyone have a men's frame smaller than the 24" to sell?







WANTED:   28 x 1 1/2 Rims posted by: Matt Harter on 3/15/2003 at 10:40:18 PM
Would the person with a huge stash of perfect roadster rims please sell a few pairs to me at a great price.

Thanks!
Matt