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Archived: English Roadsters







AGE / VALUE:   Top-tube shifters posted by: David Poston on 7/12/2003 at 7:41:27 PM
Since I am the winner of an e-bay auction for an NOS S-A top tube shifter, my question for you all is: How do you set up the cable? Will I need a special cable, or can I adapt a "normal" S-A cable for this purpose?

Thanks,
David.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Top-tube shifters posted by Ian on 7/13/2003 at 9:16:04 AM
David, I have a couple of bikes with these shifters on. Neither uses an outer cable, both use a pulley at the intersection of the top tube and the seat tube. One is on the top tube and the other is on the seat tube just below the lug. I have a selection of pullrys and some come with clamps large enough to clamp over the actual lug while others fit the frame tubing. It appears you can use whatever lines up best. I have used the inner cable from a handlebar shifter, the nipple fits the tube shifter fine, but to do this you have to have the universal cable clamp fitting on the end of the indicator chain (with a bolt with a hole through it) which allows you to shorten up the bottom end of the cable to suit. Email me if you have any problems or need a pulley. Regards, Ian.






AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Drew on 7/12/2003 at 11:27:28 AM
They sound like great starter roadsters. People pay $60. for Brooks saddles. They look tough enough to me, you see them being ridden off road in the third world loaded with 200 lbs. supplies, furniture, etc. Also, these can be parked Downtown without having to worry about theft, a friend of mine lost his B93 saddle, front wheel & F brakes to his '69 Raleigh Tourist by a thief.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by M.R. on 7/12/2003 at 5:01:07 PM
Yeah, you'd probably be HAPPY if someone stole one of those....trust me....... I find it very very hard to believe you could pile hundreds of pounds on one. I know I've seen it done as well, but there must be a trick, because I KNOW the forks would buckle for sure.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by sam on 7/12/2003 at 6:37:58 PM
They are heavy,not too well built and all else said except they are strong.The tubes are heavy and brassed into badly finished but equally strong lugs.The forks--yep they are built the same as the rest of the bike,not pritty but strong.The leather seats---the leather is a lot better than the springs.The under side of the seat will soon give.If you buy one do try and find one with good tru rolling rims.If you can then $60 would be as said a good starter roadster.






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/12/2003 at 2:27:50 AM
A while back I had posted about an interesting "reproduction" rod-brake bike I came across on Ebay. Collectively came to the conclusion that it was a "Hero" bike manufactured in India.

One of you good folks had made mention that you know of someone in Northern NJ that actually SELLS these things.

Would greatly appreciate any info as I've emailed the folks at Hero three times to no avail....

Thanks!

Boneman


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by M.R. on 7/12/2003 at 3:03:34 AM
That was me. I don't have the e-mail address here at home, and I have been out of work for two months, however I start back on monday so I will post the e-mail address then. i don't think they were "Hero" brand, but trust me ALL Indian bikes are very close in quality (sic). As I recall, he said they were $60 if you pick one up your self. They come with a full chain case, lights, safety-pin type leather saddle, etc.....I'm sure that at $60 you won't cry too hard when you get one. They are roughly the quality level of say a Huffy, or Roadmaster. But, they look great! especially at a distance. If you aren't expecting English roadster quality levels, they're passable. Back at you on Monday.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by Edward in Vancouver on 7/12/2003 at 5:27:54 AM
$60.00 for a chaincase, good value? By the time you take the bike around the block, that's all you'll want to salvage from it. I've seen these bikes up close and personal, and they ain't pretty. I mean the lugs have raw casting seams that, painted or not, could still slice your finger or some other part of your body very effectively. What's that phrase Lawyers like to use, "Caveat emporium"?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/12/2003 at 12:08:22 PM
M.R. First... sorry to hear of your recent "idlement" but glad to hear you will be back at it! And very much appreciate the forthcoming info. Yeah, I'm not expecting a grand machine and I might not even procure one... but... I just gotta see for myself. If I get one... well, reading some of the other posts... heck... I might just de-burr the entire thing.... paint it up with flames... heh heh...

THANKS!

Boneman

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by M.R. on 7/12/2003 at 4:58:14 PM
Well, I bought an Indian made "Roadmaster" several years ago, and Man oh Man! It actually rode reasonably well, but there was hardly a usable part on the bike. Except maybe the rims. They were pretty well made. Yeah, the frame was really cobby. Really. But as I said they "look" good, especially at a distance. I think I've a photo around here to prove it should you want to see it. I think though, that if you could get one for $60, well what the Hell, you know? I suppose someone with a little "moxie" could spiff one up into less of a "half-arsed" machine.
See you Monday....

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/13/2003 at 12:47:48 AM
A most interesting thread for sure. Many vituperate the perceived quality, etc. of these machines. I've not personally laid eyes on one up close, however, for me they certainly have more appeal than the torture-machine mountain bikes and arse-in-the-air roadbikes of today. Appreciate everyone chiming in. At least I will know what to expect / look for when I get the chance to. True rims... yeah, a plus for sure!

Later!

Boneman

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by Ian on 7/13/2003 at 9:26:22 AM
I do not know much about the Indian bikes but would suggest you look out for the Chinese roadsters. I have recently discovered a cache of Wu-Yang's made by the Great China Bicycle Company and whil some aspects of the quality left a lot to be desired they are a great source of some parts and the price of the whole bike was less than one genuine chainguard. I have fitted full chainguards, rod brake handle bars and linkages (front and rear) and front forks to old English roadsters without any modification at all, they look right and fit right. Their logo is a very close replica (rip-off?) of a Raleigh one and easily removed if you do not want it. Cheers, Ian.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by M.R. on 7/14/2003 at 4:23:03 PM
SHITE! They cleared my entire e-mail system because it was full! I'll have to see if I can find the address elsewhere.
Sorry:-(

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   OK, I give up. posted by Mike on 11/23/2004 at 9:22:47 PM
I have some Hero parts and frames. The frames are In the style of the old Raleigh Roadsters. As for parts I have rear kickstands, fenders, rear racks, Rod brake handlebars and chaincase chain guards. Let me know if your interested and I will figure out a price for you
by: 216.209.144.12






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FONGERS? posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/12/2003 at 2:25:20 AM
Now THIS is different. Rod and drum. NMA but very cool!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2544850142&category=364

Later!

Boneman


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FONGERS? posted by M.R. on 7/12/2003 at 3:07:32 AM
Yeah, it's Dutch. Not neccessarily from the twenties either. My bet is that it is much newer. 1960's even.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FONGERS? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/12/2003 at 12:09:43 PM
20's... yeah, I got the impression that it's newer... is that not a white panel I see on the rear fender?

Later!

Boneman

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   FONGERS? posted by Stephen on 7/14/2003 at 10:45:31 PM
This bicycle bears an amazing resemblance to my 1960 Gazelle - rod operated drum brakes, generator, skirt guard, full (fabric?) chainguard, white fender, rear rack, tan Vreeder tires.

My 1964 Rudge also has the same features, but 26" wheels instead of 28" like the Gazelle.

Ordinarily, I would have expected a rear coaster brake if the bike does not have multiple gears (I don't see a shifter on this bike - mine have Sturmey Archer AB hubs).

I assume all these bikes (Gazelle, Rudge, Fonger) were available in any color desired as long as the color was black.






MISC:   Almost missed them.. posted by: Warren on 7/11/2003 at 10:34:48 PM
I posted earlier about the replica "club bike" I was cobbling together...starting with the frame from a 58 Superbe. Unusually, it has chrome fork ends and rusty chrome fenders. Someone suggested this was a Superb Special or Sports...I can't remember. Anyway, I was about to salvage the SW hub and Dybo hub when I saw the imprint throught the rust...Dunlop 26 X 1 1/4. The crappy gumwalls were so rotten I couldn't see the size and I've never seen a Superbe with EA-1 rims before but there they are in 32/40 hole patterns. Big grin. Never assume!!!!

Of course I have to pay $100 for a decent chrome job but who cares...they're the original rims. Seems to me this bike is less of a replica than I thought. Now if only I could find a medium or close ratio 4 speed hub! If anyone has such a hub in good order, I've got a nice double fixed BH club hub (50's) I would trade.


   RE:MISC:   Almost missed them.. posted by Edward in Vancouver on 7/12/2003 at 5:20:11 AM
I've got an FW in decent shape, but it's a 36 hole hub. However, I've got several 40 hole AW hubs (steel shell) that I could swap the guts into, as well as a decent 4 spd trigger. FC's or FM's are "just aren't done here" in Lotus land...

   RE:RE:MISC:   Almost missed them.. posted by Warren on 7/13/2003 at 3:31:31 AM
Let's talk!






WANTED:   brake pads posted by: mike mckay on 7/10/2003 at 12:23:55 PM
drum brake linings for Raleigh late 60's early 70's


   RE:WANTED:   brake pads posted by David on 7/10/2003 at 4:29:10 PM
Try www.permaco.com (the SA importer)

   RE:WANTED:   brake pads posted by Edward in Vancouver on 7/10/2003 at 10:53:23 PM
Do what I did: Take the whole hub to a brake specialist, and they'll put new linings on it. Most brake machines will accept the small (90mm) plates. If they can't do it, go to your local motorcycle dealer for more info.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   brake pads posted by Mike McKay on 7/16/2003 at 12:06:07 PM
Thanks, I tried a brake specialist, no go. Motorbike shop is a good idea. At the moment the bike slows very slightly under full braking. I nearly had to bail down a gentle slope!. Mike.






MISC:   Union drum brakes posted by: David on 7/10/2003 at 10:33:06 AM
My Schwinn Town & Country tandem has German Union drum brakes that look very similar to Sturmey-Archer brakes. Are parts actually interchangeable between Union and SA?







AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by: mike mckay on 7/10/2003 at 9:59:47 AM
I have recently bought what I thought was an 'old' bike for 90 Australian dollars. Its a Raleigh 'all steel' with an AB hub. The frame number is AA774775 which doesn't apear on the lists I've seen. It is made in Malaysia. Is that very bad? Is it an inferior bike. It seems well made with rod/brake drums and a full guard. The date stamp on the hub is 3 then a gap then 7 something. The something is mistamped. It apears to fit a 68 model according to the parts such as 32/40 spokes, clear plastic triger cover. Seat is a brooks B73 pedals have logo on them. Is it really a 70's model? Bloody hope not. Thanks. Mike.McK.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by M.R. on 7/10/2003 at 11:52:56 AM
Mmmm, sound like a March *7 something, '77-'67-'57-'47???? I don't know. However it sound like a great bike regardless of whether or not it is a "classic" or newer. Malaysia? That doen't sound right to me. Does it actually say "made in Malaysia" on it?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by mike mckay on 7/10/2003 at 12:40:22 PM
Thanks for replying. Yes, at the bottom of the downtube it says "manufactured under licence by raleigh cycles Malaysia , town , city , Malaysia". The writing is the same gold colour as the big 'Raleigh' further up.

Individual parts are stamped made in England.

Also the badly stamped No. on the hub is after the 7!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by Wayne on 7/10/2003 at 4:09:49 PM
Hi,
Based on the Raleigh serial number chart on retroraleighs.com, it appears that your bike was made in either 1977 or 87. I think 1977 is more likely.

http://retroraleighs.com/dating.html

According to the chart...
A=The factory where it was made.
A=The fortnight it was made in (A=1 X 14 = first half
of January
7=Year of manufacture (likely 77)
74775=the rest of the serial number.
There is one interesting thing here. I am trying to collect a list of all the different factory codes from that era and I had not seen "A" before. Now I guess it must be for Malaysia. The ones I know of are;
N for Nottingham England
W for Woksop England
R for Canada.
Thanks for the info on this one.
Talk to you later,
Wayne

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by M.R. on 7/10/2003 at 5:42:08 PM
It must be a seventies model then, but still that(to me at least) does not mean it is a "bad" model. It sounds like a great find to me.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by Frank in Boise on 7/10/2003 at 8:52:46 PM

William Soon might know about these...

Frank

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by Chris on 7/11/2003 at 7:10:10 PM
What size wheels? rod brakes or cable? what color? enclosed chaincase or hockey stick style?
Interested in hearing about anything from Malaysia.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by mike mckay on 7/13/2003 at 12:43:39 AM
Thankyou to everyone for help with my questions. Wheel size is 28 1+ 1/2 . Spokes 32/40. Colour dark green. Fully enclosed guard. Thanks again, Mike.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Malaysian made posted by mike mckay on 7/13/2003 at 12:45:13 AM
Thankyou to everyone for help with my questions. Wheel size is 28 1+ 1/2 . Spokes 32/40. Colour dark green. Fully enclosed guard. Brakes are very cool rod to drum arrangment, front and rear. Thanks again, Mike.






AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by: David Poston on 7/10/2003 at 7:14:47 AM
OK, I'm in the process of doing my very first bottom bracket overhaul...on my Raleigh DL-1! I was going to start with a "beater" bike first, but I was at the shop with my frame (getting the front fork straightened) and the guy who happened to be there was the knowledgeable one with lots of experience with 3-speeds, so I thought, "What the bother, why not try it?" His tools were a hammer and a vise to support the crank. Two or three good blows and the cotters were out. As easy as pie. One cotter maybe even salvageable. No worry, I've stashed some NOS Raleigh cotter pins; plus, the guy says any old cotters will work as long as you file them to fit. So the hard part is over (i.e., removing the cranks).

Now, I need some pointers on the following:

a. Where does the grease go besides on the races themselves? Be specific, please (e.g., on the adjustable cup threads, cotter pin threads, pedal threads, etc.).

b. Can I re-use the original bearings as long as they don't have any major pitting? (the guy didn't have any in stock at the time and I don't know if this is a hard size to find)

c. What tools do I need to clean my bottom bracket out? (I was planning to use a toothbrush, kerosene, and a rag).

d. Does the fixed cup (right hand side) come off or stay on? (the guy said to keep it on)

e. When adjusting the adjustable cup, should I use a spanner, and should I err on the side of too loose or too tight?

Thanks all,

David.



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by David on 7/10/2003 at 10:31:04 AM
a. You want to get the threads clean but not greased. Anti-seize compounds are available that might make future disassembly easier if applied to threads but are not necessary. You want to grease the cups and cones liberally. The balls themselves will be embedded in the grease when you put the spindle and adjustable cup back in. If you can find one, put in a plastic BB sleeve to protect the bearings from water, flaking rust, and other crud that will fall on them.
b. Don't reuse the bearings. 1/4" balls can be found at any hardware store or bearing supply and they're cheap. You'll need 11 fir each side.
c/d. The advantage of removing the fixed cup is that you can get it really clean. It's tougher with it in place. Your tools are appropriate.
e. You can adjust the cup with any big adjustable wrench and tighten with the hook wrench. Ideally, you should not be able to detect play in the spindle. Wear of the cups and cones will probably make it impossible to adjust so there's no play but no binding. If that's the case, you'll have to settle for a little play. You'll find that it will loosen a little when you tighten the lock ring as the adjustable cup gets pulled out a bit. You'll have to loosen and retighten a few times before you're satisfied.

Make sure you press the cotters in very tight before you tighten the nuts and check their tightness again after you've ridden 10 miles or more. Also, Park makes a nice wrench for the usual roadster adjustable cup; not expensive.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Robert on 7/10/2003 at 12:40:22 PM
Grease is cheap , use plenty. I would agree with the bike shop guy and say leave the fixed cup in place. Remove it only if it is pitted and needs replacing. It's a bit more hassle to clean, but a flashlight and a dowel with rags , toothbrush, ect will get it done. If you do need to remove it go here for info on a very cheap and very useable tool to remove it that you can by at a hardware store.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/bbcups.html

When you do hammer the cotters out , tape a piece of cardboard or some such to the chainwheel to protect it from a poorly aimed hammer blow. It will save you the frustration of having a dinged up chainwheel. (I know firsthand).

Reinstalling the cotters is a bit of a pain. ONce again Sheldon Brown has some good instruction.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html

Take you time and if you get frustrated or angry in the process go have a Dr. Pepper . Then come back after thinking about it for a few minutes. it's supposed to be a hobby not a job right?






   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Warren on 7/10/2003 at 12:54:33 PM
All this advice is good...I disagree that the cotters are easily reused once they've whacked with a hammer. There is often distortion...use new ones along with new bearings and lots of grease and you won't have to open that BB up for 15 years. Do it right, once.

Last note...in keeping with the vintage theme, I don't like modern bike greases like Parks. I think these moly greases break down too quickly.

I like thick grease...motorcycle greases are my fave.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by sam on 7/10/2003 at 1:38:55 PM
This would also be a good time to check at a Half-Priced book store for a Glenn's compleat bicycle manuel.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by David Poston on 7/10/2003 at 5:44:56 PM
Thanks, everyone...Now just a few more things...

1) I've already got Glenn's Bicycle Manual (thanks, Sam) and am presently reading the portion devoted to "European cottered cranks," which I translate as English 3-speed. It says to remove the fixed cup, but I think I'll leave it in place unless it is worn (a flashlight should tell, I guess).

2)Grease--I just bought a tube of Phil Wood "waterproof grease." I assume this will work?

3)Bearings--I guess I can replace the bearings, but the ones I have look perfectly fine. I've never heard of the plastic ball bearing protector thing before, does it have to be sized to the cups?

4) Adjusting the cups--I have an old pressed steel bicycle spanner (English made) that fits the adjustable cup. I assume this should work. Now, when I go to tightening the lockring, do I need to hold the cup in place to keep it from moving? How tight should I get the lockring?

5) Threads--Any name I should look for at the bike shop or hardware store in the way of anti-seize compounds? How about using regular SA oil (I've been using this on fork threads, pedal threads, etc.)?

6) Re-installing the cotter pins--How much of the cotter threads should protrude when I hammer it in? Should the final tightening be done by turning the cotter nut?

Thanks, guys, for all the help...Now for a flashlight to get a really good look at that bottom bracket...

David


3)

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Robert on 7/10/2003 at 6:15:56 PM
Permatex makes a good anti-seize. It is available at any "good" auto parts supplier. Call first and save a trip.
Bearings are cheap at a bike shop or bearing supply. If i remember correctly , I think you live in the Houston area?? Lots of industry there . If so you can look in the yellow pages under bearings and find a bearing house. Here in San Antonio they sell for about 4 cents each. As far as how tight to get the lock ring, a good "estimate" would be about as tight, per feel, as a rear axle nut. Don't try and kill it , just lock it down.
And "do not" attempt to tighten the cotter into place by tightening the nut. You will snap the cotter in half at the threaded end. (Been there done that)Fit the cotter ,by filing the flat if necessary , to where the threaded section extends outside the crank by about the thickness of the nut. When satisfied with the fit, back up the crank by resting it on a vise ect. and hammer the cotters in. Them snug up the nuts to keep them from coming out. The nut just holds it where you hammer it to.

Here is the text on this from Sheldons site.

"There are a few pitfalls in filing cotters. You need to remove more metal from the wider end of the flat (near the threads) than from the narrow end of the cotter. Balance the pressure on the file to compensate for this, or you will inadvertently reduce the angle of the taper. If this occurs, your cranks will not come out 180 degrees apart when assembled. One remedy is to put the cotter into the vise with the flat parallel to the tops of the vise jaws. This gives you a reference so that you can see whether you are changing the angle. Tighten the vise securely.
The other pitfall to filing cotters is that most people tend to rock the file as they use it. This will give the "flat" a partially cylindrical surface, and as a result it will fit unevenly against the flat of the bottom bracket axle. It is very important to keep the file horizontal throughout the Good file technique requires lifting the file off of the work for each back stroke. You should also use a file cleaning card, a special brush with very short steel bristles. After every few strokes of the file, clean the file with the file card to prevent a buildup of chips in file teeth.

To reassemble, the cotters must be hammered in just as they were hammered out. If you try to tighten them just by tightening the nuts, you will not be able to get the cotters tight enough and you may strip the threads. The cotters should be hammered, then the nut snugged down, then hammered a bit more, the nut tightened a little more and so on, until further hammering does not produce any more slack to tighten the nut. After 50 miles or so of riding, you should give the cotters a couple of taps and tighten the nuts again. After that they should be secure."

Do remember to snug them up as stated here. They may loosen and it ignored can for bad stuff.

Take your time, hth







   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by David Poston on 7/10/2003 at 8:32:58 PM
I noticed it is kind of hard to clean the bottom bracket without removing the fixed cup. What happens if I remove it? I assume I would use the same spanner that I use on the adjustable cup.

David

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by David Poston on 7/10/2003 at 8:40:59 PM
I just read Sheldon's article on removing fixed cups, and I think I had better just leave it in there.

David

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Warren on 7/10/2003 at 10:25:49 PM
David...you will not be able to tell that your bearings are "out of round" This is why you need to replace them.

You do not need anti-seize compound when making steel-to-steel contact. It is mostly used in alloy-to-steel and high heat conditions. Clean the threads and use a light coat of grease.

Thre is nothing wrong with removing a fixed cup as long as you know what thread it is. I use a high quality 18" adjustable wrench with a homemade jig. This has working on literally dozens of cups.

Finally the nuts on the cotter pins are just to hold the pin snug so it doesn't develop any play. It is the forceful use of the hammer that ensures the pin holds fast. Do not overtighten these nuts. Use one fingers worth of torque with a 4 inch spanner. That is not scientific but it works for me.


   RE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Stephen on 7/10/2003 at 11:12:33 PM
David,

I think your questions have generally been answered, but I will add some comments based on my experience

Leave the fixed cup on - the guy was right.
These Raleigh fixed cups are pressed in at the factory and are much harder to remove than the adjustable cups. I recommend you remove the fixed cup if, and ONLY if, the frame is not usable (e.g. broken lugs) and you want to salvage the cups since you can't buy them new at the bike store. If you do this, you need to know that the fixed cup has a left hand thread - turn it clockwise to loosen it.

To emphasize this point, I did significant additional damage to (already ruined) frames the first two times I removed the fixed cup. While I was not exceedingly careful, I seriously recommend you removed the fixed cup from some beaters before even thinking about removing the fixed cup from a bike you value highly.

As you have noticed, the cups have a very narrow surface for a spanner; I find a 16mm cone wrench works as well as the pressed Raleigh wrenches.

Yes, you do need to hold the adjustable cup in place while you tighten the lock ring, or the cup will tighten too.

I recommend you replace the bearings when you repack them. 1/4" bearings are cheap and easy to find - if you spend the time to put in clean grease, you don't want to have to redo the job soon to replace the bearings.

For similar reasons, I would recommend new cotter pins, but I have noticed that the newer cotter pins are lighter than the old ones so if your existing cotter pins are in good shape and have the R nuts you may want to reuse them.

Good Luck.

   RE:RE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Peter on 7/11/2003 at 8:59:03 AM
I'd like to add weight to the 'leave the fixed cup in' argument. I've seen a Raleigh dealer cycle mechanic remove one (from my own frame) and it was not something to undertake lightly - he used a huge tommy bar and a bolt-up mechanism that went through the fxed cup and clamped it tight. It then took all his weight on the extended tommy bar to get it moving. Those shallow flats on the fixed cup were never intended to take a spanner (wrench?) - they are there to engage with the removal tool. In any case the cup is hardened steel and a spaner will just chip the edges .So my advice - clean, examine, and hopefully no wear, but if there is take it to a reputable bike shop for removal. In my experience axles wear long before cups.

I think it is also important to be careful when tightening nuts on greased or oiled threads. These systems - nut sizes, wrench lengths etc. were designed to apply the correct torque when assembled dry.

It is tempting to keep rust at bay by adding some lube when re-building and I do it myself, but it pays to remember when tightening that the same amount of torque will result in a tighter nut or a stripped thread if oil or grease has been used. Any thoughts?

Peter

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Ben on 7/11/2003 at 1:44:59 PM
David and all,

A really easy way to clean a fixed cup in the frame is with spray carburetor cleaner (like Gumout) which usually comes with a red spray tube to get the cleaner exactly where you want it.

Also, the bearings you are looking for are easily obtainable at any bike shop. Always replace them, since you cannot necessarily judge the condition of old ones by eye. Remember, you will be doing this fairly infrequently, and the cost of bearings is small.

When adjusting the final assembly, tighten the adjusting cup until there is just no play. Then tighten the lockring. You may see at this point that the outward force the lockring puts on the cup introduces just a little play. Note the position of the adjustable cup, release the lockring, and screw the cup in 1/8th turn. Retighten the lockring. Repeat until there is no play. With experience you will be able to make this right first try.

Ben

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Chris on 7/11/2003 at 5:43:34 PM
Contact the Raleigh Chopper web site at: www.rcoc.co.uk/
Find a set of Raleigh Chopper bottombracket cups.
Buy Them.
These fit your Raleigh also. These will be new cups.
The bottombracket spindle is marked 08 GCP
OR 21 GCC

After you get the spindle out search for a new one or have a machinist make you a new spindle. The Chopper folks will not have your spindle for your Raleigh unfortunately as it is a different size from the spindles for the Choppers.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by David Poston on 7/11/2003 at 6:09:41 PM
Thanks for the continued replies...

a. When I tighten the lcokring, how much torque should be applied? Can I get it tight enough with my Raleigh pressed spanner, or do I need to use a drift punch or similar means?

b. Chris, are you saying I can't re-use the original spindle or cups?

Thanks,
David.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Chris on 7/11/2003 at 7:16:15 PM
You can tighten the lockring back with the pressed spanner and use that like that. I tend to tighten it and then give it a smack with a punch wedged in one of the holes or gaps in the thing. Tight where it won't move. Not too tight. Don't torque these myself. It'll be alright.

Re- use original spindles and bottombracket cups? Yes. Even the old parts with new grease and new ball bearings will turn better than before.
These parts wear like iron and last a long, long, long time.
Still...
Look for pitting spots on the spindle and in the cups. You should replace any parts that are pitted. Pitting occurs in a bearing too.
Bearings can crack and often they do after pitting has occured. Bearings are easy to replace.

Tell us what your spindle says on it. the markings.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Chris on 7/11/2003 at 7:19:32 PM
smooth grooves indicate acceptable wear. When it turns to pitting spots after that. It's needing replacement.
You can go on after that but you'll ruin bearings and it won't be so true or sweetly effortless turning until it's replaced.
Find original 26 T.P.I. cups at the Chopper sites!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   DL-1 bottom bracket overhaul: need help! posted by Chris on 7/11/2003 at 7:20:34 PM
You'll likely be able to leave the fixed cup in there and be ok.






AGE / VALUE:   1954 Phillips posted by: Ted Germann on 7/10/2003 at 6:55:22 AM
Hey I just purchased a 1954? phillips bike and I'm wondering if anybody has info on the Model it would be and where I would find a Rear fender and chain guard for it? is it worth anything?
Thanks







WANTED:   Raleigh Space Rider 24" rear fender posted by: Joe on 7/10/2003 at 6:00:43 AM
Hi,
I am looking for a rear fender for an Orange 24" Raleigh Space Rider. preferably in good clean condition, the bike it's for is complete and original but was missing it's rear fender.
Thanks,
Joe







AGE / VALUE:   Malaysia posted by: mike mckay on 7/10/2003 at 3:26:21 AM
After reading the date it yourself section I need some help. I have a Raleigh 3 speed "all steel". It has rod to drum brakes front and rear, a full chain gaurd , its green. The hub is an AB but stamp unreadable. 32/40 and clear plastic trigger face. Frame. No. AA774775. I thought I had an old bike but I think the date stamp starts with a 3 month 70 something. It is made Malaysia, is that bad?







ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Nice 21" Sports on Ebay posted by: David on 7/10/2003 at 3:23:34 AM
Darn - too small for me. Dynohub + lights, B66, used by someone knowledgeable (front brake on right), only one bid at $20.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2182546625&category=420&rd=1







AGE / VALUE:   V-brakes posted by: sam on 7/9/2003 at 10:59:23 PM
Thinks to Robert's brake jig , the V-brake bosses are now added both front and back to the DL-1 frame.Also brassed up the holes originaly for the rod brake attachments,for a cleaner look.---sam







AGE / VALUE:   Atlantic old bicycle 60's or 70's posted by: Lisa on 7/9/2003 at 7:15:27 PM
Hi, I have found an old bike called an Atlantic which was distributed in Canada by Woodwards and old department store. This seems like it might be by an english maker. It is a single speed, back pedal brakes, and 28 inch wheels. Has anyone heard of this brand?