ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by: Warren on 4/14/2005 at 2:42:04 PM
OK, so Copake has this one up for auction in a 23 inch frame and yet they only value the bike up to $250. Wonder what it will get? Shame about the lighting for the picture.

The quality was SO much better around 1960...a fine bike.

item 6524337748
by: 70.51.144.75


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Kurt K. on 4/14/2005 at 4:24:02 PM
"...NOS Excellent condition."

And what do they mean by that?

Agreed, the paint and brightwork is in fine shape, but if this is NOS, where's the frame pump?

More importantly - what's with the funky stem? That's not original Raleigh equipment if I've ever seen it. Heron bracket is also badly bent.

I also have my doubts about it being a 1960 - take a look at the braze-on chainguard tabs. I've seen Sports models right into 1971 feature the common downtube clamp - earliest I've seen with the braze-ons is '73. However, I must contradict myself and say that I am wrong in this statement, as both the paint job, shifter cable routing, and brake calipers (soldered-end cable type) all point to pre-1970 manufacture.

I doubt that it will even recieve a bid, as the Copake format is less then inviting, and the item's description quite lacking.

Take care,

Kurt
by: 152.163.100.198

   Re: ENGLISH R...: '60 (?) sports posted by Kurt K. on 4/14/2005 at 9:05:58 PM
By the way, I commonly hear the members on the forum here comment on the top-quality chrome that Raleigh sported back in their prime - however, I have yet to find out when this glorious chrome actually did dissapear in favor of the more common "thinplate."

I've seen Sports dating back to 1965, and none of them had exceptionally nice chrome - in fact, the chrome on my '71 S-A Endrick rims were far superior to the garbage Westricks on both the '65 Sports and Superbes I have examined.

-Kurt
by: 64.12.116.198

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 4/14/2005 at 11:34:09 PM
>Agreed, the paint and brightwork is in fine shape, but if
>this is NOS, where's the frame pump?

;-) The "condition" is (purportedly?) NOS... however, sans the pump, the bicycle is "incomplete".

No... I'm not a lawyer... nor do I play one on TV.

A nice machine and certainly I would want to see more pictures.

The lettering style is certainly indicative of a 60's machine. I had restored and sold a 69... or was it 68... that had that style lettering. One of the more attractive styles for certain.

Pardon my wry and silly post... migraine tonight...

Regards.

Larry "Boneman" Bone
by: 69.39.171.68

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Kurt K. on 4/15/2005 at 12:25:43 AM
True - it's incomplete, but that handlebar stem certainly raises alarm bells in my book! No doubt it's a rather nice 1960's example, but very poorly described by the auction house.

>The lettering style is certainly indicative of a 60's machine.

Actually, that's not altogether true...at least for the "Raleigh Sports" downtube logo. I believe this particular logo was used as early as the '40s, while the latest examples of the same logo appeared on the all-gold edition Sports in '71 and '72.

The seat tube decals though are the real giveaway as to the '60s vintage of this machine though - not the downtube transfers.

I must say I'm still bewildered at the chainguard mounting - didn't think they had that style of mounting in the '60s, and why would they produce two different mounting formats for at least 4 years before deciding on a standard variant?

>nor do I play one on TV.
Good one...still laughing at this end.

Slightly off topic - don't you hate it when some so-called "prestigious" auction house compiles an item's description with obviously no professional knowledge of the item?

Take care,

Kurt
by: 205.188.116.204

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Dick in FL on 4/15/2005 at 2:41:55 AM
It has 32 front spokes and 40 rear. That means it was made before 1972 (1971?). The black grips and self-adjusting brake controls appeared in the early '70's. Also, the second pair of rear fender braces was a relatively modern upgrade .... not from the 1960's.

From a professional auction house, this is an appalling presentation. (They must be breaking in the new son-in-law.) I'll bet it does not draw a single bid.
by: 172.170.115.107

   RE:Re: ENGLISH R...: '60 (?) sports posted by Warren on 4/15/2005 at 3:00:43 AM
All of these pics are terrible...and Copake is one of the true authorities on vintage american bikes but it appears they are not depending on ebay for bids on these "live auctions". It appears to be advertising and promotion for the real thing.

As far as the chrome goes, I think Dunlops chrome was going thin around the mid 60's. I agree, Westricks always were terrible The 50's Westwood rims were just glorious. I've got chrome fork ends on my 58 Superbe Sports and that chrome was also excellent. The frame was abused and showing rust but the chrome still cleaned up nicely. That is truely unusual...by the 70's, the paint lasted longer.

I picked up some '30's/40's]50's frames this past month and the plating on all of the cranksets were passable...CCM, BSA, Norman and Raleigh all stood the test of time while the frames needed TLC.
by: 70.51.153.75

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Jeff R on 4/15/2005 at 11:16:30 AM
Look closely at the caps on the end of the pedals. I think they are the older rebuildable ones from the early to mid 60's. The chrome went downhill around 64 or 65. I can clean up most 50's and early 60's chrome. The later 60's chrome flakes off and has large pitts where as the earler chrome has much smaller blemishes. Good quality chrome is tripple plated copper, nickel, chrome. The poor quality chrome plating is just nickel flashed and chrome.
by: 152.163.100.198

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Kurt K. on 4/15/2005 at 6:21:22 PM
Dick: My '71 is also an traditional spoke setup, and I have seen an early 1972 Sports sporting the 32-40 as well (see reference: http://fredhaj.tripod.com/72greensportspage.html )

Those are not self-adjusts though - they are the pre-73 standard levers that Raleigh used since the '40s. Peter's Record Ace sports the same levers.

The second pair of rear braces popped up in 1967, I believe. A 23" frame bronze green 1966 Sports recently appeared on eBay, less the braces, however, the 1967 Raleigh catelouge features the extra pair of stays.

Warren:

>...by the 70's, the paint lasted longer.

I must respectfully dissagree with you there - I believe it is due more to the fact that the older bikes have had a few more years on them to sit around and soak in the sun. Both my '71 and '73 (the '73 especially) had rather hard lives, paintwise, and both were pretty much faded. Compound did nothing for the '73, and simply shined the '71 - but by no means did it bring back the paint that faded 15 years ago.

I did come across an ex-rental Carmine Red 1965 Sports for sale recently - both rims were pretty much rusted, spokes were missing, fenders long gone, AW hub jiggling around on it's axle, chainguard clinking...and the paint was abselutely astounding. True, the decals were gone, and obviosuly someone must have compounded it recently, but the paint was intact - no fading whatsoever.

Jeff:

Those are the rebuildables, but they existed right into 1971 - I have a pretty sorry pair sitting in the shed that came from my Raleigh Twenty. Union took over the manufacture in 1972 with a very similar (but non-rebuildable) variant, and I believe the reflectors were widened in 1974.


But when all is said and done, I think it can safely be said that this Sports is either a '67 or '68. I believe the soldered-end cables were gone by 1969.

Take care,

Kurt
by: 152.163.100.198

    NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Warren on 4/15/2005 at 8:05:17 PM
Hey Kurt..I think longevity of your chrome depends on your climate. I've had a least a couple of dozen 70's Sports/Superbes pass thru my hands over the years and invariably, the rims and "brightwork" were in worse condition than the rest of the bike. However, Toronto has a weird ecosystem where it gets both extreme cold as well as temperate temps in the winter due to the warming effect of the lake. It's possible to ride all year, as I have done rather faithfully for over 20 years. Combine that with the excess amount of salt they use on the roads here and you can imagine the torture your drivetrains and chrome suffer thru year after year. It can get ugly. I'm not suggesting that the newer paint jobs were of great quality though. It just ain't so.

I love red Sports...I have two Raleigh Candians that are very different shades of red. My 59 woman's Raleigh Canadian is a brighter, almost candy red with white fork ends, while the 61 men's "club" Canadian is a deeper wine colour...I suspect this is carmine.

I rarely see double ended cables on bikes after 62 or so. Maybe they were phased out for different export markets? Sheldon lists '65 as the transitional year.

by: 70.51.155.249

   RE: NOS '60 sports!!! posted by Kurt K. on 4/15/2005 at 10:44:12 PM
Hello Warren!

Well, your location (and mine, actually) explain things quite a bit...I'm down in sunny South Florida, where the sun is king and snow doesn't exist.

The '65 Sports I saw was of the lighter candy color - I'm pretty sure this is Carmine Red (inferred from the Carmine Red Sprite in the '76 catelouge).

With all due respect to Sheldon and the work he has put into his charts, I have found a good deal of errors and various conflicting and confusing information in it.

The soldered-end cables happen to be one of those features subject to error in his chart. His chart shows '65 as the transition year, but I have seen one '66 and a couple of '67s sporting the soldered cables.

I know of a gentleman nearby with a 1969 Superbe, sometime I'll take a ride down to see which variant is on his. I'm pretty certain that the pinch-bolt was standard by '69 though. Of note, my '69 Robin Hood features the pinch-bolt setup, but I've noticed that some of the details on the secondary-brand Raleigh Industries bicycles vary from the real Mc-Coy.

Take care,

Kurt
by: 152.163.100.198

   RE:RE:Re: ENGLISH R...: '60 (?) sports posted by eva on 8/10/2008 at 4:18:36 PM
Hey!
We've got what seems to be a '58 raleigh canadian. It says '58 on the three speed sturmey archer hub. That is the only indication of a clue to the date I could get. So far 'googling' has turned up nothing positive. It has some interesting characteristics, like the tubing that joins the frame to the (headset?) part of the frame has very sharp points on the little 'waves', the decorative metal cuts on the external connecter pieces. I've seen the same/similar designs on most old bikes but this one is unique in the sharpness of the points. It has the little cable wheel under the seat, pump holding points on the frame, separated brake levers, it's black with white fenders, has a partial chain guard, not a full cover.
'We' means Yellow Bike Action, Kingston, Ontario. We have a web site and a toll free # 1-877-613-8122.
We have an even older? bike that I can't get at yet because it is a bit buried under other bikes. It has the single lever for the brakes and rods, a great leater seat, and the full chainguard that goes all around the chain but may be missing the leather cover????
Feel free to call or email us. These great bikes are not really given the credit they deserve in our dirty little great bike shop. Ask for me if you want. Eva
by: 67.193.241.58






FOR SALE:   1941 Raleigh Roadster posted by: mc on 4/14/2005 at 12:03:45 PM
Complete & original. Make offer.
by: 24.27.111.157


   RE:FOR SALE:   1941 Raleigh Roadster posted by Kurt K. on 4/14/2005 at 9:06:29 PM
Condition?
Location?
by: 64.12.116.198

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   1941 Raleigh Roadster posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 4/14/2005 at 11:26:55 PM
Ladies?
Mens?
Size?

Not to bust chops... but a wee bit more information would be more inviting. ;-)

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone
by: 69.39.171.68

   RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   1941 Raleigh Roadster posted by Kurt K. on 4/15/2005 at 12:36:46 AM
Ladies?
Options?
Size?
Blond?
Brunette?

"...bit more information would be more inviting. ;-)"

Hehe!

-Kurt
by: 205.188.116.204

   RE:RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   1941 Raleigh Roadster posted by MC on 4/15/2005 at 3:06:42 AM
I suppose that would be helpful. I was in a hurry this morning. It was an estate sale find, dated as a 41 per serial number, rod brakes, 28" wheels, everybit a man's roadster except for a std chainguard, not a full chaincase. Size? Without measuring, I would say it's for a 5'10" or taller english chap. Everything is there except brake pads. I'll even leave the stuffy british bell on the handlebar. If you're near Houston, stop by and see it.
by: 24.27.111.157






WANTED:   Green Paint for 1970 Raleigh Sport posted by: Ron on 4/13/2005 at 2:35:06 AM
Recently acquired a 1970 Raleigh Sport painted the bronze green.It has many nicks and chips that I would like to touch up hoping that it will look decent.There are only a few collector bicycle shops in the Western New York none of which can assist me.Can you direct me to a source for this paint? Thanks.
by: 205.188.117.9


   RE:WANTED:   Green Paint for 1970 Raleigh Sport posted by Kurt K. on 4/13/2005 at 7:20:56 PM
Email "TJ" at tamtam4@indy.net - I believe he has a can of original Raleigh Bronze Green spray.
by: 205.188.116.204






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   To Peter, RE: Platinum 1972 Sports posted by: Kurt K on 4/13/2005 at 1:19:15 AM
Jeff's right on the dot with the Platinum '72 - 1972 colors for the Sports were identical to those in '73:

Bronze Green
Platinum
Coffee
Sky Blue (women's only)
Ivory Glaze
Black

The '74 line was identical to the '73 and '72 except for the ommission of black as a color option.

And of course, Platinum and Ivory Glaze were scratched for '75, when Silver and the imfamous Lemon Yellow took their place. These color options lasted until '76.

'77 trimmed the options down considerably, with only "Pearl Silver" (identical to the previous year's silver), and Coffee as color options. S3C coaster models featured only the Silver color.

I haven't been able to rustle up any information about the choices for 1978, but I do know that by '79, a color called (believe it or not) "Humber Blue" was added to the line, and remained until 1980, along with the Silver and Coffee colors. I have no idea what happened after 1980.

I also believe the '79 and '80 schemes all had a corrisponding secondary color on a section of the seattube, and between the luggings on the headtube. I only know that the Humber Blue model featured silver accents.

While Raleigh models of the '70s may not be tops in quality, they sure are full of variety when it comes down to variations!
by: 205.188.117.9


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   To Peter, RE: Platinum 1972 Sports posted by Jeff R on 4/13/2005 at 11:01:07 AM
My sister has a 1980 Humber Blue Raleigh with a S3C coaster hub. The other interesting thing about this bike is that the rear mudguard is a solid color. No white tail.
by: 64.12.116.198

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: To Peter, RE: Platinum 1972 Sports posted by James on 4/14/2005 at 7:32:54 AM
I've seen a few late barely used Raleigh Sports with solid colour rear fenders for sale cheap around here, I lost interest when I saw the rear fender. Not only does it not look right, it is in violation of war time MOT regulations.
by: 71.34.82.8

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: To Peter, RE: Platinum 1972 Sports posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 4/14/2005 at 9:25:17 AM
I owned one that was sans the "patch". It was dropped in the last few years of manufacture. Additionally, the bike had that tall, thin, "tombstone" rear reflector that was rather unsightly.

Being of late manufacture and not stored in the best manner, the rims were quite poor. I had a pair... mens and ladies and sold them. The ladies was in much bette shape and seemed to not have been used much.

Had I chosen to keep the pair, a can of white spraypaint and a couple of "more original" round reflectors off Ebay would certainly have done much to make them look to be "proper" bikes. ;-)

Later!

Larry "Boneman" Bone
by: 69.39.171.133

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: To Peter, RE: Platinum 1972 Sports posted by Kurt K. on 4/14/2005 at 8:59:31 PM
Speaking of Humber Blue Raleigh Sports:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=98084&item=7148935733&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

About time someone does something about that rear fender...also note the absence of a rear brake cable - it's an S3C model (to further sour the deal).

What beats me is that someone's willing to pay $49 bucks for the thing.

1976 is the latest Raleigh that I bother to look at - the Weinmann equipment and reflectors of of 1977 models made for the transition of the Raleigh Sports from a prestigious, elegant bicycle to a no-class 1980's 3-speed Searsmobile.

-Kurt


by: 64.12.116.198






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Another Platinum Sports on ebay posted by: WArren on 4/12/2005 at 8:52:18 PM
I figure this guy saw the $355 the other one got . In equally nice condition, with pump pegs, smaller frame,

item 6525282458
by: 70.51.154.189


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Another Platinum Sports on ebay posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 4/12/2005 at 10:14:13 PM
$355!!!!!

Doggone... I'm gonna get me some platinum paint and GO TO TOWN!

Actually... albeit the price is high... the bike was in excellent shape and it's good to see one of these machines command that price. Hopefully, the new owner, having put forth that much dough will appreciate it's value, use it often and take good care of it!

As to this newly listed machine.... Exceptional condition. I wonder if it's been restored... or just had been stored in someone's bedroom or something. ;-)

Regards!

Larry "Boneman" Bone
by: 69.39.168.173

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Another Platinum Sports on ebay posted by Kurt K. on 4/14/2005 at 12:42:48 AM
There's something about mint 23" frame Raleigh Sports that bring the prices up on eBay - remember that Coffee '69 Superbe that went for $200 or thereabouts?

And on the other side of the spectrum, any post-1966 Sports with a 21" frame will bring nothing - even less for a very small-frame model, such as the 19.5" or 18" men's frame Sports from the late '70s.

-Kurt
by: 152.163.100.198