AGE / VALUE:   Humber ??? posted by: kit on 3/9/2007 at 9:13:32 AM
Is there anyone who can help with date of manf. using Humber serialization?

Best regards,
Kit
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AGE / VALUE:   blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by: Chris on 3/9/2007 at 7:28:57 AM
Well, another 26 inch frame bike has returned from being bead blasted. The bike is a marvelous sliver/grey. This is the look of bare steel.
I am pondering paint issues before this bike is being put into primer.

I have a N.O.S. Diamond skip tooth (TRACK) bicycle chain in the lovely green box with the red diamond in the center. It's N.O.S.
I took the chain out to look at it and noticed that every other plate of chain has this blue-ish black finish on it.
This is a metal treated finish that is not painted on. It is not anodized either.
What is this metal finish known as? I've been thinking aout it. Now a bicycle chain is covered in and has oil on it. So this is not meant for bicycle frames, fenders, back stays and the like surfaces of the bike.
But...........What if something was put over this coating to prevent it from rusting?

Look at the chain, and the remember that this finish is far superior to scratches, and paint chipping would be non existant. Paint chipping is a real problem especially today.
The big thing here is to run. As far and as fast as my little legs will carry me away from today's powder coat paint because in my opinion it is for sh**. quality wise.
Powder coat paint is aweful. It chips really easily.
So I am trying to get this effect but without having the thing painted at all.
It's a lovely finish that would be utter terror to try to duplicate in paint and I don't think it's possible even so.

I'll keep the group posted as to updates on thie bike. Another thing, slightly off topic. When was the last time you saw something really exciting that made your heart jump and you snap out of the dull depressing doldrums of every day life? Man, you all should seen these two hot rod cars! My afternoon commute was enlivened by seeing two fellows in chopped up hot rod type Ford Model T whatevers with slick tires. These guys are out and about and their cars are really out of the ordinary and it was really so exciting to see it. I tried to catch up to them but knew better than to speed in that area so I had to give it up. I never see a car or a hot rod that has this effect on me. Except for these. I will try to get pictures sometime. The hot rod bug has bit me. It was like chasing the old fellow down to buy the Humber bike.Only this is 1000 times more magical and awesome. These fellows can't be caught and stopped to talk to they're too fast! I'll be carrying my camera to try to get snaps from now on. I'll stop rambling and simply say You shoulda been there!
by: 69.245.78.110


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Andy on 3/9/2007 at 10:15:58 AM
Could the finish you describe be bluing? Normally used on guns...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluing_%28steel%29
by: 67.119.92.14

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Chris on 3/9/2007 at 10:49:24 AM
It might be.Still not sure.
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by andy on 3/9/2007 at 12:28:47 PM
Bluing is normally kept rust-free through oiling, but I wonder if a few coats of clear-coat would do the same? Could be a cool finish...
by: 67.119.92.14

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by andy on 3/9/2007 at 12:53:11 PM
http://www.vansgunblue.com/

"When the desired finish is attained, stop the oxidation process by applying your favorite gun oil..."

This is where I wonder if clear-coat would do the trick...
by: 67.119.92.14

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Chris on 3/9/2007 at 1:39:16 PM
There should be some way to seal it up. Some subsitute for the oil. Think of how it would look! Thanks for pondering this with me.
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:AGE / VALUE: blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by sam on 3/9/2007 at 3:36:23 PM
And before "bluing" guns were "Browned"Or rubbed with salt and alowed to rust then wiped down with and oil rag.The first BSA bicycles used Snider rifle cleaning rod for stearing rods.
I'd use epoxy primer and quality(I use DuPoint)top coat(with hardner).And top coat the transfers with copal oil varnish too.
by: 69.149.105.249

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Chris on 3/10/2007 at 8:15:40 AM
Saw a Cadillac, and a Saab, and there are other car paints that are close to the color I'm looking for.

Still,I am drawn to that unique blue- black. like on this chain. It would look really fine. Can you imagine the mudguards and enclosed chain case parts all in this finish?
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Chris on 3/10/2007 at 8:16:53 AM
I'm fed up with paint chipping and I love this color.
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Chris on 3/10/2007 at 10:29:44 AM
Thought I'd clarify that the Diamond chain company (If they are still around,) is not involved in this bike project and that it's just crazy old me drawing inspiration from their awesome chain from yesteryear.
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by sam on 3/13/2007 at 10:10:09 AM
They are still around,still making chain,and they still make double roller bicycle chain too.
by: 69.149.105.249

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: blue black finishes DIAMOND CHAIN COMPANY- HUMBER BIKE PROJECT. posted by Chris on 3/13/2007 at 4:58:20 PM
Thanks Sam!
by: 66.51.146.59






AGE / VALUE:   Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds posted by: Mark Stonich on 3/8/2007 at 4:40:37 AM
A few months ago, I asked here if there was enough demand to justify production of a tool for removing fixed cups on English 3 speeds and others having similar 5/8" flats on the face of the cup.

I did get enough positive responses to have a batch of Fixed Cup Remover tools produced and now have them ready for sale. A dozen are already in the hands of customers and feedback has been good.

Details are at http://www.bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/

I had the machinists put slots on both sides, slightly differing in width, as the flats on the cups aren't always 0.625" across. I'm offering a small combo discount if you get one with a cotter press.

by: 209.162.11.59


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds posted by Chris on 3/9/2007 at 7:28:12 AM
I suggest everybody who has a Raleigh bicycle order one of these tools. Also, I recommend that Mark is elevated in status to vintage bicycle sainthood. He's earned it.
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds posted by Matthew on 3/9/2007 at 11:23:22 AM
I think beatification is a bit extreme. Perhaps we could bestow a knighthood on Mark, KORB (Knight of the Order of Repairers of Bicycles) maybe? Or KFC (Knight of Cycle Fixing) Okay I'll stop now.
Hats off to Viscount Lenton , the Hon M. Stonich esq.

Matthew - not even once a Knight.
by: 62.252.0.12

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds posted by Chris on 3/9/2007 at 12:09:57 PM
Wasn't there a vintage Raleigh bike collectors club called: The Circle of Silver Knights?

Ok, So Mark is now: Sir Mark. Yes, actually it is more appropriate especially now that he has ridden to the aid of cyclists in need of tools and information on hard to find replacement parts.
by: 69.245.78.110

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds posted by Craig on 3/12/2007 at 5:02:14 PM
I just ordered mine (the press and the BB tool). Can't wait to try them.

Craig McNeil KORB KFC KORN (Knight of the Order of the Rounded-ff Nut) KLLBEBAY (Knight of the Lost Little Bit you can't even find on EBAY)
by: 64.42.26.98

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Fixed Cup Tool for English 3 Speeds posted by Mark Stonich on 3/12/2007 at 7:23:11 PM
Craig, there will be a slight delay shipping your tools. The fixed cup tool has been so popular that I've cleaned all the local hardware stores out of 1/2" square nuts. So I ordered a box from MSC today. Should arrive Wed.

About whether I deserve sainthood or knighthood;
Since WWII knigthoods seem to be awarded based solely on how one affects Britain's balace of trade. Sir Richard Branson????

No thanks.

As for sainthood - I probably have earned it.
After all, what did Francis of Assisi do to keep old bikes on the road?

But, don't you have to be dead?


by: 209.162.11.59






ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   AW/Raleigh westrick spoke length posted by: Nick on 3/7/2007 at 5:12:19 PM
I own 3 1970/80's Raleigh Superbes, the latest of which,(ebay strikes again) is a very late 1982 British racing green with rod brakes in A1 condition, which i'm planning to upgrade with dualpivot calipers, rod brakes being what they are. I'm planning on building up a couple of 40h hubs with raleigh stainless 26 1 3/8 rims and was wondering if 283mm is the correct spoke length for a 4 cross Raleigh Stainless Westrick. I use them perhaps too much for some pretty high miles, today i took eight hours on my 1979 Raleigh Esquire to do 75 miles. Just (500 miles ago) put on a new Brook's B66, which is already amazingly comfortable but creaks alot. I figure building your own wheels is a good skill to pick-up, especially when some LBSs' charge a premium just because the components are not what they're use to. The Esquire has done about 2000 miles in the last 6 months, and the previous 36h wheel popped a 13g spoke at 800 miles(25 miles from home on a ride), so if i can find the spoke length for the AW, i'll have a hairbrained attempt at lacing a wheel.
Cheers, Nick.
by: 195.93.21.131


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: AW/Raleigh westrick spoke length posted by Mark Stonich on 3/8/2007 at 4:54:33 AM
I come up with 271.3mm for cross 3.

I would never use cross 4 as tangentally spoked wheels can potato chip from only moderate side loads if highly tensioned. However, if you must the figure I get is 280.8

Remember to use spoke washers if you use modern spokes. They have larger radius bends for modern, thicker hub flanges.

For DT spokes I use 2 washers under the heads of inside spokes (head on the outside) and one for outside spokes.

For Wheelsmith I use 3 and 2.
by: 209.162.11.59

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   AW/Raleigh westrick spoke length posted by Nick on 3/8/2007 at 7:04:44 AM
cheers for the reply Mark, i've just tried to measure the effective rim diameter of a Raleigh westrick iso 590 and it looks that the distance between inserted nipple + twice the nipple length is 582mm. I've checked on various spoke length calculators and the 26 1 3/8" and it gives 282.7mm. I've bought a load of 283mm DT Swiss so hopefully they'll do ok for the first attempt at a lace up. It also matches the length for a standard low flange front hub, so that'll be the second wheelbuild. I agree that 4 cross is just too obtuse an angle as it enters the spoke nipple. I've got a couple of wheels with 4 cross and they look very strained as the nipple comes out straight.
I don't know if you remember i asked you about the fixed cup in AW hubs. I asked Derek Folgate at oldbiketrader.co.uk and he passed me on to a guy that specialises in Sturmey stuff and has the original press, with replacement cups, so thankfully a pitted cup doesn't mean a dead hub. Following the use of your cotterpress, the serviced bottom bracket on my Raleigh Esquire is A1, and i even did a 75 mile ride on it yesterday.
Many thanks for the help with the spokes,
cheers, Nick.
by: 195.93.21.71

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: AW/Raleigh westrick spoke length posted by Mark Stonich on 3/8/2007 at 9:08:13 AM
Nick,
The difference in lengths is that some people, mistakenly IMHO, belive ERD should be measured to the top, not the bottom of the head of the spoke nipple. If you calculated length puts the end of the spoke flush with the head of the nipple, in the real world it will protrude and cause flats. This is due to spoke stretch and slight deformation of the rim at the spoke hole.

I use 578 for the Westick (Drop Center)rim and 582 for the flat Eastrick rim. My spokes get up into the slot, but don't protrude.

In a thread above this one I have supplied the info on the fixed cup tool. If I was supposed to get back to you when it was available, I obviously forgot.
by: 209.162.11.59






AGE / VALUE:   Alloy SA hubs ? posted by: Drew on 3/7/2007 at 4:57:22 AM
How rare are Sturmey Archer AW hubs stamped 'ALLOY', and what kind of value would they have. Have an example dated 1954.
by: 68.160.42.21


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Alloy SA hubs ? posted by Warren on 3/7/2007 at 6:02:14 AM
They're more desireable but they won't start any large bidding wars on an AW. Lot's of them were made in the 50's when hub gears were still specified on race bikes. They disappeared in the 60's as derailleurs took over. I would certainly prefer an alloy 54 AW over a similar vintage steel AW hub.
by: 71.7.150.172

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Alloy SA hubs ? posted by Chris on 3/7/2007 at 9:27:53 AM
Warren hit the nail on the head. The alloy shells are 1/3 the weight of the steel shells. It makes the bike more cool,special and magical. the alloy part is more rare.
Devote your life to finding as many of the alloy shell bicycle hubs as you can. It's fun!
by: 68.164.125.73