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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







MISC:   Delayed Gratification Revisited posted by: Wings on 11/28/2000 at 10:36:37 PM
THE THREAD OF COMMENTS ON
DELAYED GRATIFICATION (11/23 FOLLOWING) CONTINUES IN THAT AREA!









MISC:   ROAD RASH posted by: Art on 11/28/2000 at 11:28:29 AM
I'd like to hear of your experiences dealing with road rash. How do you treat it? Do you cover it? Put anything on it? For myself, I shower and brush the wound vigorously. Then I usually let it air dry, uncovered, if I can. I might load some antibiotic cream on it if it is particularly nasty. I'm asking because my 9 year old son, ignoring his father's advice to wear long pants or his knee pads, crashed on his scooter. My scrub it till it bleeds technigue lost out to his mom's soak it in a hot tub until it's clean. Not to be outdone, I did invent a cool tent method of preventing his sheets from touching his knees when he went to bed.


   RE:MISC:   ROAD RASH posted by Keith on 11/28/2000 at 11:56:55 AM
I'd love to hear a definitive answer, since I'm buying my 9-year old a scooter for Christmas. I've followed the "let it dry" technique for years. "Let it out to the air to heal," Mom always said. But recently I read that it's better to keep it clean and moist with ointment and bandages. But who knows, the site was probably hosted by Johnson & Johnson. BTW, that smelly Grandpa's Pine Tar Wonder Soap that Rivendell sells it great for cleaning anythibng,including road rash (yes, I've done it). Health food stores carry it too.

   RE:RE:MISC:   ROAD RASH posted by Dr. Oscar on 11/28/2000 at 1:30:04 PM
Mom's too gentle. Scrub it until he bites you, then apply antibiotic ointment. Keep it open to the air, it should heal quickly. Cover it if he wears jeans that could irritate it, though.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   ROAD RASH posted by Oscar on 11/29/2000 at 6:20:37 PM
Scrub the would with hydrogen peroxide. I remembered that detail after I nearly crashed this morning.

   RE:MISC:   ROAD RASH posted by sam on 11/30/2000 at 7:03:50 PM
Mom's right,The idea is to clean not make it worse.do get all the dirt out,running water is also good,My wife uses neosporin(hope I spell it right)it's good stuff.Cover only if you have to.






MISC:   Schwinn derailleur adjustment question posted by: Kevin Hardy on 11/28/2000 at 6:30:07 AM
I was told that some of the folks who haunt this discussion group might be able provide information (or refer me to a source - online and free, if possible)of information on adjusting a 1960's Schwinn derailleur (five-speed). I've just restored a May 1968 Orange Krate, and now that I've replaced the worn original cables with NOS, I've got to start from scratch on the shifting mechanism. I've checked in general bike repair manuals, but, as you know, the new ones are fairly well evolved from the 60's Schwinn set-up. Just wondered if there was somebody out there who knew the Schwinn set-up well enough to help me cut to the chase. It worked pretty well before I removed the old cable, so I'm fairly sure the hanger is not bent or anything like that. I've tried every cable tightness configuration and screw combination adjustment I can think of, and it either won't drop into fifth or climb all the way to first (or at least when I let go of the shifter it drops back into second or third). What's the secret?


   Schwinn rear derailleur adjustment posted by John E on 11/28/2000 at 7:02:15 AM
I assume you have the standard Schwinn-approved Huret Allvit rear derailleur, which is actually a pretty decent device. My recommended procedure:
1) Check alignment/straightness of hanger, body, and cage. Everything should be plumb. If the bike has ever fallen on the right side, the hanger or body may be bent inward. Judiciously bend it to correct any obvious problems.
2) Check for mechanism binding. As you pull up on the cable clamp, the cage should move smoothly inward. A little oil on the pivot points can make a big difference. Also, make sure your return spring is still up to the task. If the bike was stored in one of the lower gears, the spring may need to be replaced or restreched. ALWAYS STORE A DERAILLEUR BIKE WITH THE SHIFTERS IN THE MINIMUM TENSION POSITION (usually small chainring and small freewheel cog, even though one should never load this combination while riding).
3) Replace your chain. Today's "8-speed" SRAM chains are far more flexible than the originals, and greatly enhance the shifting of almost any derailleur.
4) The low-gear adjustment screw hangs straight down from the bottom of the unit. Adjust it so that the cage can move inward to the point that the jockey wheel is directly below the inside cog. If you still have trouble shifting into first, you may need to let out the screw A BIT further, but not enough to allow shifting into the spokes.
5) If your bike goes into first gear but autoshifts out of it, tighten the pivot point of your shift lever.
6) The high gear adjustment screw is embedded into the side of the derailleur body. Tune it so that, with A LITTLE slack in the cable, the jockey wheel is directly below the outer cog.
7) If this does not cure the problem, please post again.

   RE:Schwinn rear derailleur adjustment posted by Oscar on 11/28/2000 at 1:30:54 PM
Who's the man?

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn derailleur adjustment question posted by WIngs on 11/28/2000 at 10:12:51 PM
I would second John's motion with special attention to:
"1"( above) -- Alignment check -- I find most of the problems there and they are quick to fix.
"2" (above) -- A little oil really does help!
Did you take the rear wheel apart and replace the spokes? If so, check the position of the smallest cog in relationship to the frame. Would a spacer on the axle help to move you more into the shifting area? (Check all derailer adjustments first.)
Also at the same time check your chain alignment by sighting down the chain from the chain wheel to the middle cog on the rear wheel. Is the chain off in the area you are having trouble shifting to?
The last problem I had on a used bike -- after replacing the derailer to no avail -- was solved by replacing the chain. The old chain was stretched!

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn derailleur adjustment question posted by Keith on 11/29/2000 at 7:44:03 AM
I would add: (1) replace the cable housing, if you haven't already, and (2) GREASE the cable where it fits in the housing. Also, at times after visual alignment, a touch up of ajusting screws (as little as 1/8 turn) may be necessary after testing under load. Also, NOS cables? Why not just new ones? Sometimes NOS can have surface corrosion -- check for this. I'd say get new stainless.

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn derailleur adjustment question posted by john hwarylak on 12/3/2000 at 7:01:37 AM
Just a seconding of the comment made on chain wear.

The guy at Harris Cycles recommends replacing the chain if the length of a 12" section is > 12 1/16". Replace the freewheel if the length > 12 1/8". The distances are fairly easy to measure with a 15" ruler or a 12" ruler, using 11" to measure.






AGE / VALUE:   Windsor " CARRERA SPORT " posted by: Kevin on 11/27/2000 at 4:40:35 PM
Hi. I would also like some information on this bike I own. It is in excellent, original condition. Metallic blue in color, with gold and black decals. 25" frame . I would like to know where this bike was "really" made, the type of tubing. I've been told it's a bottom end bike, I really don't care as it rides very smooth and for it's weight, goes very well. Any facts on my Windsor would be great. Thank you, Kevin


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by Brian L. on 11/27/2000 at 5:06:17 PM
This is totally tangental to your posting, but what the heck. As I understand it, the "Windsor" which Eddie Merckx rode to the hour record in Mexico City was, in fact a custom made bike (probabably by De Rosa) to his specifications and badged "Windsor" for polical reasons. Windsors were made in Mexico. I have seen lots of crummy examples. My brother had a pretty nice one which he unfortunately (in retrospect) had repainted and eventually sold.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by Bruce VR on 11/28/2000 at 12:47:05 AM
The Hour-Record bike was badged as a Windsor at the last moment for a huge $$$ chunk of change... It was built by Ernesto Colnago, see Cycles de Oro or the great hard-cover book on Eddy for more info... I had a Windsor Pro that looked like it was made by a young kid (probably was!), although some were OK, basically a Mexican company like the latter-day Benottos, sad in my opinion... The Pro was their only decent model...

Watch the video "The Impossible Hour" for a look at it in action... Eddy was "the" man in my opinion...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by sam on 11/28/2000 at 6:15:48 AM
Picked one up at goodwill for $10.I know next to nutton about light/weights,but I do feel if compaired to other mass produced bikes such as varsitys they do rate o.k. Mine has suntour dropouts and bar end shifters

   Windsor posted by John E on 11/28/2000 at 7:12:21 AM
Sam and Kevin -- This is just a guess, but it sounds as though both of you have basic lightweight carbon steel frames, which should be comparable to the Peugeots, etc. of the era. You have a 10-pound weight advantage over the "Varsinentals" and very decent commuting and recreational bikes. (I commuted happily on a Peugeot U0-8 until the chainstay cracked from too many hill climbs.) As the others observed, Windsor was indeed a bike boom era line of made-in-Mexico Benotto clones.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Windsor posted by Keith on 11/28/2000 at 9:37:26 AM
Windsor is known in lightweight circles for two things: (1) having paid to put the stickers on Eddy's hour record bike, as Brian says, and (2) for making a Columbus tubing all-Campy Cinelli clone in Mexico in the 1970s, which received widely mixed reviews (I had one for a while and it rode great). I don't think other models are noteworthy (I recall something about a Shimano 600 equiped 80s model). Windsor also made, and perhaps still makes, utilitarian one-speeds with double top tubes, rod-brakes and 28" tires, similar to bikes made in China and India, all of which are offshoots of British roadster bikes. My question to you is: what kind of dropouts does it have? If they are Campagnolo, then you've got the 70s era Cinelli clone, which is a respectable lightweight to some, worth perhaps several hundred. If the droputs are anything else, then at best it's a fun bike to ride.

   RE:Windsor posted by Kevin on 11/28/2000 at 9:38:59 AM
Hi guys and thanks for the input. Sam, my bike also has the Suntour pieces you describe. I went with down tube shifters, really cleaned up the look of the bike and prevented the cable housings on the bar ends from scratching up the head tube. I've had a real Bianchi (Italian made) and a Lotus, of those I still prefere the ride I get from this Windsor. Just a note of personal embaressment, I was driving into town one day and happened to see a pr. of bike tires in the trash. I stopped and as I was " saving " them a school bus pulled up. All the kids got a laugh watching me rumage through the trash. The tires, well they turned out to be a pr. of AVOCET "TIME TRIAL/20 27x7/8" in very good condition. Mounted up on the Windsor, maybe that's why she's so fast. Thanks all, Kevin

   RE:RE:Windsor posted by sam on 11/28/2000 at 12:31:07 PM
Wish I could say I have an all campy,columbus tubing Carrera,even if it were a cinella clone from Mex.But all it says is Windsor Approved-imported by linder evroimports 5-76 made in mexico.I plan to repaint it nextyear when doing some of the bikes I bought.Thought it would look good in black as it has half chrome stays&fork.---sam






AGE / VALUE:   CZECHOSLOVAKIAN Sew Ups posted by: Kevin on 11/27/2000 at 1:15:11 PM
Hi! Need to talk with one of you who is knowledgable on sew ups. These tires are as smooth as a baby's bottom. The only identification on them is "ROZMER 27''-1'' Special DRAHOVA" other ID is a large R in the middle of an oval with small lettering. Presta valve appears to be stainless steel along with mathcing knurled cap and lock ring. I was told they were probably silk w/heavy cotton center. I need somebody to help me identify exactly what these are. The name BARUM has been mentioned. These are brand new and I'm looking to sell them.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CZECHOSLOVAKIAN Sew Ups posted by Keith on 11/28/2000 at 9:45:04 AM
A friend of mine used to buy Czech tubies in quantity, very cheap, from I believe a shop in Chicago. It took him a long time to realize that quantity does not make up for lack of quality. He went through 3 on a double century we rode together. I got tired (no pun intended) of stopping in the cold rain while he changed his tires again and again. I'm not sure, but I think he paid $8@ for his. I'll ask him about the brand and if he remembers, I'll post it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   CZECHOSLOVAKIAN Sew Ups posted by Art on 11/28/2000 at 4:10:30 PM
According to my exchange student from the Czech Republic, Rozmer means size, Drahova means track or velodrome, and Barum is the name of a manufacturer.






MISC:   Paramount Update posted by: Art on 11/27/2000 at 7:39:48 AM
I had gotten my crank, spindle and chainring for my Paramount Tourist. The spindle and crank were correct...the Schwinn script matched the script on the brakes and were consistant with the pictures I had. But the chainring didn't fit. It was a three pin ring just like the crank, but it was probably 1/16 of an inch too big at the tabs to fit the crank slots. I thought about forcing it, but I'm getting better at those kinds of judgements, and I called the restoration business that sold me the parts and for which I paid a premium. The owner told me to force it in. I told him I thought it was so large that I could damage the crank in the process. He told me I could send it back and he would fix it, but that the parts were genuine and that there shouldn't be a problem. The conversation bugged me. I've bought stuff from a lot of different people over the years and I rarely expect anything other than "buyer beware", but in this case, considering how much I spent and that I was thinking of having the bike restored through them, the owner's response bothered me. I went to my local bike shop where the guys have about 90 years of combined bike shop experience. The consenus was that the chain ring wasn't right. I had two options, send it back or file it down myself. The criteria for sending it back was did I trust the place to do it right? Frankly, I didn't. I thought they should have checked it before they sent it out. Then, if there was a problem, I think they should have offered to send another chainring for me to check and then return the incorrect one to them . I had a mail order company do this once with something they sent that was the wrong size and I thought it showed a lot of trust. I filed the tabs myself, slowly, by hand and the chrome on the inside of the tabs, flaked off, indicating to my bike shop gurus that the piece had been cheaply re-chromed. More proof that the experience wasn't a positive one. The good news is that now the ring fits well in the crank, and that the bike rides wonderfully. What did I learn from the experience? I may be naive, but I still feel that if you pay big prices for stuff, it ought to be right. I won't have this company restore the bike...in fact, I kind of like it the way it is. I can understand that the owner didn't have the parts in his hands when I called him, but I don't think I should have the responsibility to make the piece right. I think I like it better when I walk away with a bike at a swap meet, knowing that if I missed something or paid too much then it's clearly my fault. Still, this is a very cool bike and riding it was a wonderful experience, my business dealings not withstanding.


   RE:MISC:   Paramount Update posted by Keith on 11/27/2000 at 12:40:34 PM
The most disappointing purchases in my life have all been of sight-unseen items bought over the phone, by mailorder or internet, going back to when I was a kid buying those switch-blade looking knives from an ad in the olf Farmers Almanac. Boy, were they dogs! But sometimes you don't have much choice. I agree with not using the business for the full restoration -- the experience shows a lack of attention to detail. As much as your Wastyn Paramount deserves a full restoration, if I were in your shoes, I'd probably get cheaper, but period correct British (Williams, Chatter-Lea, etc.) stuff off of 50s Raleigh Clubman or Lenton Grand Prix models, etc. (I think there's a 50s Lenton in the Cycles de ORO for sale ads). But that's the kind of thing that keeps me from being a serious collector.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Paramount Update posted by Keith on 11/27/2000 at 12:50:10 PM
P.S. The Lenton Grand Prix was posted on Cycles de ORO on 9-4-00. It has Belelux derailleurs. But it has Raleigh Heron-pattern cranks, which would be a definite no-no even in my cheap frame of mind.

   wrong chainring diameter posted by John E on 11/27/2000 at 2:04:22 PM
I had a similar experience with NEW "engagement" chainrings from QBC. My 130mm BCD 50T ring fit my Ofmega spider properly, but my 135mm BCD 50T had too small an inner cutout and too small a BCD for my Campy Veloce spider. Yes, QBC rings are alot cheaper than Campy, but given today's computer-controlled machine tools, it should have fit. (Each of the 5 Campy rings I own fits the Veloce spider very precisely.)

Since nothing I own is collectible, I can freely substitute components without depriving future generations.

   RE:MISC:   Paramount Update posted by Oscar on 11/27/2000 at 2:11:28 PM
It doesn't seem that your expectations were too high, but it's a disappointment that they were not met. I think a high-end place that can supply rare components should back up the products it sends out. We're not talkin' Radio Shak here, where you can buy the same thing at a hundred other places.

In my business, we deal in high-end stuff that costs more. Since it costs more, we are paid more, but we have to work more at it too.

I'm glad it worked out in the end, but what a hassle.






FOR SALE:   VISCOUNT aerospace g.p. posted by: larry on 11/25/2000 at 6:12:28 PM
white and blue 27" Viscount. Aluminum rims, good paint, Derailleurs need (t.l.c) Frame seems to be aluminum and other metal (cro-mo). Everthing there except seat.


     VISCOUNT aerospace g.p. posted by John E on 11/26/2000 at 2:48:01 PM
I remember the Viscounts well -- they looked sharp and weighed nothing. They are interesting and potentially collectible bicycles. Have you replaced the original fork, whose rampant failures destroyed the company?






AGE / VALUE:   Brooks Saddles posted by: Hilary Stone on 11/25/2000 at 8:10:19 AM
The good news is that Brooks Saddles has been saved. See text of press release below.
Hilary Stone

Press Release

Brooks Saddles free to build on fine heritage in £1 Million acquisition

The management team of Brooks, makers of fine leather bicycle saddles have
acquired the business from the liquidators of its parent company, Sturmey
Archer Ltd (in liquidation) of Nottingham.

Brooks, based at Smethwick, Birmingham had always been a separate
manufacturing centre from its parent company and so the team will be
straight back into production on Monday 6th November.

The acquisition was supported by private investors from within the bicycle
industry who have a high regard for the quality saddles that Brooks produce.
Brooks saddles sell to over 180 companies world wide with over 85% of
production going to discerning customers overseas. The saddles are used on a
comprehensive range of cycles including traditional and contemporary styled
bikes, touring cycles, tandems and performance road bikes.

Brooks Managing Director, Gordon Nixon is delighted to be back at work with
his loyal team of craftsmen, saying "We were deeply shocked when our parent
company went into liquidation through no fault of our own. Brooks was
founded in Birmingham over 130 years ago and we have always been immensely
proud of our heritage. We are now thankfully free to continue to build on
our reputation as the finest bicycle saddle maker in the world. We are
extremely grateful for all the support we have received, especially from our
customers who have stood by us and who have today, on our first day back,
given us orders in excess of a months production."

The acquisition of Brooks was overseen by Paul Bennett of the law firm
George Green (of Cradley Heath), acting with the investors in conjunction
with James Grenfell of Birmingham based Corporate Financiers, Invex Partners
Ltd. Banking facilities are being provided by HSBC, Birmingham.

----- * -----

Release: Immediate

For further information please call Gordon Nixon at Brooks - tel: 0121 565
2992
- fax: 0121 565 1630




   I hope they can make a go of it posted by John E on 11/25/2000 at 11:09:03 AM
Yes, this is smashing, as they say in the U.K. I think I'll order a Professional for my mountain bike, partly because I like the one I have, partly because I do not recall seeing another mountain bike with a tensioned leather saddle, and partly because I want to support the efforts of the management buyout team.

   RE:I hope they can make a go of it posted by Oscar on 11/25/2000 at 10:34:26 PM
I have a B-17 on my drop-bar mountainbike. It takes the whoomp out of the trail.

   mountain bikes w/ drop bars posted by John E on 11/26/2000 at 4:59:34 PM
As a hard-core roadie, I have thought about building a mountain bike w/ drop bars. What shifter system do you use on yours -- barcons?

   RE:mountain bikes w/ drop bars posted by Oscar on 11/26/2000 at 7:57:32 PM
I use Suntour 6-speed barcons. I like to have the bars way up high, so the stock stem still works. The only thing hairy about this set-up is downhilling with my hands clenched on the hoods and a very aero position. Most folks like to be upright when going downhill, but most people aren't crazy. It adds more thrill to the hill!






WANTED:   Dura Ace Cranks posted by: Jack on 11/24/2000 at 6:27:16 PM
I'm looking for a set of 165mm Dura Ace cranks. I need the square bodied ones from the late 70's to the mid 80's. I am tying to restore an old BMX bike and it came with the old style Dura Ace cranks on it. Let me know what you have. I am only looking for a set of Dura Ace cranks. Thanks
Jack







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto posted by: Paul on 11/23/2000 at 8:30:39 PM
Someone gave me a old Benotto roadbike. The bike is about 15 years old.I found a little info. I would like to find out more.


   from Sheldon Brown: posted by John E on 11/23/2000 at 8:43:10 PM
"Bennotto
An Italian company that moved to Mexico. Some of the Italian examples are exquisite. Such an N.R. bike should be worth perhaps $800. To pay a thousand or a bit more for a truly outstanding example with original paint would be fairly rational. Later Mexican production yielded nice but not terribly special bikes. For N.R. examples figure $600."

>>Bear in mind that the prices quoted are for pristine specimens only.

   RE:from Sheldon Brown: posted by bicyclepriest on 11/23/2000 at 10:21:41 PM
sheldon, sheldon. He's are man. If he can't call it nobody
can.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Benotto posted by Keith on 11/30/2000 at 6:41:39 AM
A friend emailed me after looking at the unoffical Hetchins site I had directed him to see. "Is there a bicycle-related site anywhere that doesn't have a link to Sheldon Brown? It's spooky!"






AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn posted by: Dave on 11/23/2000 at 8:27:27 PM
I have a 1974 Schwinn 3 speed Speedster, 26" x 1 3/8" tires. Its asure blue and in fair to good condition. Wonder whats the value of it is?


   schwinn.com/heritage/collector's forum posted by John E on 11/23/2000 at 8:38:20 PM
If it is not in pristine condition, I doubt it is worth more than $50, but please post your question on the Schwinn.com collector's forum (under "heritage"), to be sure. Some of the regulars there really know their Schwinns!






AGE / VALUE:   Renaissance Cycles Burned to the Ground... posted by: Bruce VR on 11/23/2000 at 1:46:54 PM
More bad news... Baron's awesome vintage parts are gone, he lost it all in a fire. See his web page for details, I've given him at least $2K for parts that were just awesome! Please support him as he rebuilds from scratch. He is a man of integrity and will go to any length to get NOS parts for a customer. Sad day.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Renaissance Cycles Burned to the Ground... posted by Oscar on 11/25/2000 at 7:25:47 AM
Devestating! Baron seems to keep a good attitude about it. Pay your insurance! (He'll be back)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Renaissance Cycles Burned to the Ground... posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 11/25/2000 at 9:02:52 AM
I'm horrified to learn this, it makes me sick to read that this happened. I hope he get back on his feet.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by: Brian L. on 11/23/2000 at 8:16:03 AM
I wonder how many of us were denyed the bike of our dreams in our youth? When I was a kid, all I wanted was a Schwinn Stingray, particularly a 5 or 10-speed with the stick shift, huge rear slick and springer fork. All my friends had them. Instead my Dad got me used Raliegh 3-speed. Apologies to the Raliegh roadster afficiandos amongst you, but how embarrasing could that have been to a kid? I broke the frame riding it off road. In junior high, Nishiki Internationals were the bike to have. I spent my lawn-mowing money to buy one and Dad was just furious. It's funny how things in your youth can shape you outlook.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Eric Amlie on 11/23/2000 at 8:52:38 AM
Delayed Gratification indeed. When I was 12 all my friends were getting Varsity ten speeds. They were the bike to have for us. I was not allowed to have one as it was a "racing" bike and therefore dangerous like "speed" skates. I longed not only for a Varsity but for a Sierra 15 speed. I have been on a nostalgia kick for several years now. I decided to try to find a Sierra. In my quest I have aquired about 20 Schwinn "lightweights" from the early to mid 1960s. It's starting to get out of hand. I did finally find a Sierra. Now if I can only find a '63 Schwinn Superior! I don't think any of this would have happened if I hadn't been denied that Varsity when I wanted it so badly.

   Delayed gratificaton posted by John E on 11/23/2000 at 11:06:01 AM
My first bike was a $15 used springer-framed 2-speed Schwinn with 26 x 1.75 tyres; my second, a bottom-of-the-line 1963 Bianchi 10-speed, which my father bought because at $55 it was cheaper than a Varsity (and, as I soon discovered, at least 10 lbs lighter). In high school, I coveted the Bianchi Specialissimas that hung on the wall at my local bike shop. My current 5-bike stable includes a fat-tyred Schwinn mountain bike and an upper-midlevel Bianchi that fully lives up to all of my years of expectation and anticipation.

   RE:Delayed gratificaton posted by Oscar on 11/23/2000 at 11:53:45 AM
"I'll be #*&@'ed if I'm buying you a $120 10-speed bike. You'll just break your neck with it." Coaster-brake or not, I was the fastest kid in the neighborhood anyway.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Scott Brittle on 11/23/2000 at 1:01:28 PM
All my friends had Varsity's also. When my parents got me a Continental, I was disappointed. I've gotten a little smarter with age, but not much.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Wings on 11/24/2000 at 9:16:43 PM
?What is a Schwinn Superior???
I have often wondered why I love bikes so much. For fun I just like to visit bike shops. I also enjoy the discovery of a bike in thrift stores. I am not sure why!
I grew up on a coaster brake (used) Iver Johnson. I could go up any hill faster than anyone -- I know now the bike was geared just right. Everyone else rode large chainring cantilever Schwin frames. If you had a JC Higgins you were out of it. If you showed up in Junior High (we all rode bikes to school then) on a skinny tire bike (10 speed or 3 speed) you were looked on like you were from another planet. Really out of it.
I customized my Iver Johnson:
1. Black brush paint job.
2. At least a 12 inch goose neck with "Riser" handlebars (close to ape hangers).
3. I added a heavy duty rack. I could actually sit on the rack and pedal and steer. (My early desire for a recumbent -- that did not exist).
4. I purchased a wheel set from Sears to replace the wooden rims and I remember the wheel set used skinny tires -- which was a no no. But that and the gearing made for a cool bike.

I was given a Black Phantom at Christmas. I quickly stripped it because it was not cool to have fenders and horn tanks. When that bike was stripped -- I had the fat tire bike everyone else had. But, that bike was a dog to pedal. It could not climb hills. I parked it and continued to ride my customized Iver Johnson. Now I have two Phantoms in parts -- Why? I have only purchased two new bikes in my life. I love to buy old bikes and customize them. Perhaps I am repeating what I enjoyed doing, as a kid, with my old wooden rimed Iver Johnson. I really wish I felt this way about thimballs, buttons, or spoons! The storage would be easier!!!!!!

   superior Schwinns posted by John E on 11/26/2000 at 3:00:58 PM
Sheldon, as usual, tells all about it in his website. For many years, Schwinn produced a little-known family of CrMo fillet-brazed (check his glossary) frames, which fall nicely between the "Varsinentals" and the Paramounts. The Superior, one of the rarest, was made for 2 model years only:

"The 1962-63 Superior has a one-piece steel (Ashtabula) Hurét crankset with 3 chainrings (15 speed). The 1962 model has 26-inch wheels and the 1963 model has 27-inch wheels."

(At that time, Schwinn was still using standard Euro-BCD steel chainrings on the Varsinentals, as well. If I had a non-pristine Superior, I would be very tempted to convert to cotterless cranks, a 7-speed freewheel, and aluminum rims, and remove the kickstand.)


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Keith on 11/27/2000 at 7:10:28 AM
I was very fortunate -- as a kid in the mid-60s my dad got me a real StingRay. It was a 1-speed, but it was all I needed. I never thought of another bike until my friends started to get 10-speeds. And I never wanted a Varsity -- the cool kids were geting Raleighs, Gitanes and Peugeots -- but I ended up with the Varsity. Less than a year later I scraped together the $130 to buy a Gitane Interclub, which was probably all the bike I ever really needed, though I still lusted for an all-Campy bike. My next-door neighbor, who was only in bicycling for a short while, had a black Schwinn Paramount, and for years that was my dream bike. As I gained more knowledge, I tended to want a Cinelli or Masi (this was before Breaking Away, mind you). I got a great deal on my Mercian Professional when I was 14, and have been satisfied with it ever since. I have the Paramount now, but I'd still love to have some classic, first-tier Italian steel. Some day.

   Schwinn Superiors posted by Eric Amlie on 11/27/2000 at 8:51:03 AM
Sorry I didn't answer this myself, I was gone for the holiday weekend. Thank you for your post John. The Superior marque has appeared and disappeared over the years since at least the forties. It has always been a high quality bike just under the Paramounts (except for the late '70s, early '80s when some of Schwinns import bikes (Volares, and Voyageurs)were probably just as good). The '62 and '63 were the only 15 speed versions (at least in the catalogs) though.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Mike Stone on 11/27/2000 at 9:04:31 PM
hee hee, good to see all my Schwinn forum friends hanging out here. Anyway, Brian hits it right on the noggin with the delayed gratification concept.

My pappy is to blame for the more than 40 bikes hanging in my garage like bats and covering the parking space like soldiers waiting for action. I was pretty happy with the Sears 20" convertable all-steel (even the seat) "TON-of-riding-enjoyment" he gave me when I was about seven. Little did I know when he was wrestling the solid rubber tires onto those cast iron(?) rims that it would be the last bike he would ever buy for me.

By eleven years old, oh, how I longed to have a Sting-Ray just to be able to keep up with my friends who had them. They were kind and patiently swooped around me just to chase away the boredom of waiting for me and my iron-horse to catch up with them.

Oh, if they could see me now! What kind of respect and, perhaps even ENVY could I generate from those fellows if they could see the fine bikes I have now. Ha Ha Haaaaaaaaa. Yes, I can almost imagine that one day they may come to my door once again ringing there bicycle bells and beckoning me to join them. "Mike, let's go fishin'. The drought dried up the ponds and we can catch 'em with our bare hands..."

Then, I would throw open the doors of my garage and reveal my glorious arsenal of magnificent two-wheeled machines. "Come on, Fellers!" I would shout, "Pick yer favorite. Get off that banana seat and hop on one of these fancy schmancers with ten speeds!" Ah, the bikes are there waiting, but Ricky, Dave, and Rob have not yet arrived to fulfill my dream.

Oh... Oh, Pappy, look what has become of me now. If only you had bought me that Sting-ray. And, and then a Varsity after that. Then, when I was older, perhaps a Peugot or maybe a ...

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Wings on 11/28/2000 at 1:45:08 AM
Mike,
That is cool!
What if ...............
You were given that Stingray? Just think of the lifetime of enjoyment you would have missed! Not to mention the excitement of OldRoads! Your "Pappy" did you good because by his one gift you got muscles and a garage full of treasure! Do you have a Stingray in that garage?

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Mike Stone on 11/28/2000 at 2:26:31 PM
Wings, why... yes, now that you mention it, I DO have a Sting-Ray in my garage AND I have a couple Varsity and AND I have some fancy imported ten speeds like Peugeot and raleigh. Saaaaaaay, now that you mention it, Pappy did do me some favor in an old testiment kind of way.

I think I will end my years of expatriation and call Pappy. Maybe I can stop going to counceling too. Heck, maybe I can put my childhood shadows behind me and even become a Boy Scout Troop Master or something.

Oh, this is great. I haven't felt like this in years!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Delayed gratificaton posted by Wings on 11/28/2000 at 10:32:46 PM
Mike, I think you just need to go out and buy another bike!
Counseling???? Now down deep we know that the counselor takes our money, and yes they help -- BUT, I find I feel so much better, so much healthier, so cured, so up, so happy, and so much better than walking away from the Counselor --
WHEN I just go and talk to the guys in the bike shop!
Depressed, go talk to the guys in all the bike shops!
And then -- I find -- Just go and buy another bike!!! Or at least just go look for one!!!! It makes everything ok.
DR. Schizoid Freudwings,
Specialist in proper Head Sets!
aka, Getting proper bearings!
Stop looking at the downtube and get cranked!
The wheel is a word picture of the CYCLE OF LIFE. Nothing is new under the sun. What goes around, comes around! When it does come around, it is a time of joy to clean, wax, detail, adjust, and ride the cycle of life.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Wander posted by: Scott Brittle on 11/22/2000 at 9:10:32 PM
I am hoping someone has some information about this bike. The head badge main lettering is WANDER, and around the outer edge is: FABB BICICLETTE MARCA DEPOSITATA. There is a decal on the downtube “Made in Italy.” On the front fender is MODELLO SPORT. It is a 57 cm steel frame with chrome head tube lugs and chrome fork crown; the dropouts are also chrome. It has 27” wheels with
Ambrosio rims and Campagnolo low flange, 36 hole hubs. The front derailleur is a Simplex side shifter, the rear is a Campagnolo Sport. It has Gnutti cottered cranks, 49/46 chainrings and Universal side pull brakes. It has a built in kickstand and a unique lock, with key, on the left seat stay. The bike is a beautiful red with matching fenders with the WANDER crest, and a rear rack. It is in great shape, and other than the tires, it is all original except the handlebars and seat. I have recently acquired this bike from my father-in-law, who purchased it new in Los Angeles in the mid sixties. I was going to use this as a commute/rain bike, but once I saw it, I thought it might be collectable. Any information, or estimates of value would be greatly appreciated.


   Wander - I thought they were German posted by John E on 11/23/2000 at 11:17:53 AM
Nice find! (The world has moved on, but I still like steel frames, fancy lugwork, and half-step gearing.) I am, however, thorougly confused, as I always thought Wander was a German brand. The bike sounds like a Randonneur/road touring bike, similar to the 1956 Peugeot that recently fetched over $500 on eBay. Can you find the original handlebars and saddle (Ideale leather?)? If the paint is in good shape and everything else is original, it may indeed be collectible. (In contrast, my early-1960s Capo has a crummy repaint job and no original components except the Campy d.t. shifters. Mine is a wonderful, comfortable, practical commuter, but I suspect yours is a bit too pristine for the daily grind.)

   RE:Wander - I thought they were German posted by Scott Brittle on 11/23/2000 at 12:56:37 PM
I thought that too. But the German bike is a Wanderer from Wanderer Werks. This is Wander, and all the lettering on it is Italian. Unfortunately the bars and saddle are long gone. I failed to mention that the rear freewheel is 4 gears, an eight speed. Thanks for the reply, Scott.

   collectibility posted by John E on 11/23/2000 at 8:36:04 PM
If I had a bike like that, I would install some nice vintage handlebars and an Ideale or Brooks leather saddle. I am not qualified to run my own "bicycle antiques roadshow," but it sure sounds like a rare, high-end machine to me! Try the Cycle Utah! website -- their Classic Corner editor really knows Italian bikes and gave me quite an education about my Bianchi's TreTubi frame.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Wander posted by Marco on 11/24/2000 at 10:29:13 PM
I have searched for 6 months for any information on a Wander and have not turned up a thing on it. Bicycle search engines were of no use and logical websites drew a blank. I honestly thought that I had the only one in existence...until now. Scott, is it possible to send me a pic of this bike? I would like to compare it with mine and possible gather any additional information from you on it...like what dealer/distributor your father-in-law may have purchased it from in the 60s, etc. It's always been a mysterious breed because NO ONE has ever heard of a Wander. If the two models are alike, then I can identify the bar and seat because mine are original to my Wander. This may help you in your search. E-mail me if you want. Thanks.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Wander posted by ChristopherRobin on 11/25/2000 at 9:08:53 AM
Ask folks at the bike swap meets. Print up a flyer and hand it to the swap meet people. I had to print up flyers asking the vendors to bring in their English parts they had at home to the show. They didn't think it would sell and so they left the stuff home. Now they bring it to the show and it sells. Ask fellow bike collectors about it. Search out the bicycle old timers and ask. This stuff is just getting put into the internet world, the sites are still being built. Get back into the field! Keep hammering away at it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Wander posted by Jean-Marc Turgeon on 11/27/2000 at 10:21:42 AM
Hello!
Nice to hear peoples talking about Wander bikes;this is so rare!You guys are wright: Wander was a german bikes trademark that Garlatti SPA bought the brand circa 1940;Emilio Garlatti cycles in Parma, Italy, decide to use this name on their racing cycling bikes along with the Garlatti brand to have more visibility (use on the "Corsa" models)
My Wander is not a vintage bike; i bought it in late 70`s here in Montreal,and it is made of Colombus frame, Campagnolo and Shimano gruppo (12 sp.)I had an accident which damaged extensively the frame of my nice-coloured charcoal frame and i was quite sad; since i was planning a tour in Europe later on, i contacted Garlatti cycles to come visited them in 1987; i met the very nice M. Garlatti and he told me the Wander history; he then give all new labels to apply on my new painted Wander frame and a unique example of a racing suit prototype made for the Belgian national team bearing the Garlatti sponsor;it seems that very few peoples knows about old or newer Wander bikes but now we are more!I simply love my Wander and it is one of the best bike i never had;thanks. PS:If anybody wants to contact Garlatti in regards to Wander name, i will be please to give you their address in Parma.(Please excuse my bad english writing, it`s my second language !!)Jean-Marc.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy triple front derailleur posted by: Eric Amlie on 11/22/2000 at 6:43:32 AM
I have a '71 P15-9 Paramount tourer with the Campy triple crankset and Campy front derailleur. Does anyone know what model this derailleur was? I would like to find another one to put on my '66 Schwinn Super Sport that I am fitting with a 36/52 Stronglight 99 crankset. In the likelyhood that I will not be able to find one of these, anyone know of another vintage front derailleur that will handle the 36 to 52 tooth jump? Thanks!


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy triple front derailleur posted by Brian L. on 11/22/2000 at 7:25:01 AM
Simplex made a very attractive triple front changer. Believe that it was a variation on their LJ line. Actually didn't work that great on triples, even TA - just not enough tolerance between the plates. Should work fine on a wide double, though. Other than the remote chance on ebay, you might check out renaissancecycles.com.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy triple front derailleur posted by Keith on 11/22/2000 at 7:43:36 AM
My understanding is that it was the regular old Campy (Nouvo) Record (#1052) front derailleur. It will handle a triple. They are available from various sources, including Ebay, and you might want to try Bicycle Clasics, which is having something of a sale right now. Good used ones are reasonable -- new in the box/NOS cost a lot more. It would not be "correct" for your Super Sport. Other, more modern front derrailleurs, would probably be a better choice (like a new Shimano 105 triple).

   shifting the wide double posted by John E on 11/22/2000 at 8:54:10 AM
Since you are not concerned with keeping the Super Sport "authentic," I like Keith's Campy suggestion. A 36-52 gap is only a bit more severe than today's industry-standard 39-53. You will need to use a good, flexible chain (I like SRAM/Sachs/Sedis) and avoid power-shifting, which we retrogrouches do anyway. However, if you can find a 50T / 122 BCD ring, it might be an even better choice than the 52. (Personal opinion: any gear above the low 100s is a waste of a ratio.)

You may also want to consider putting a triple on the Super Sport. I am delighted with my Peugeot's new 18-speed setup: 34-45-48 / 13-24. I use a Shimano 600 in front and push a short-cage SunTour cyclone to its wrap-up limits in back.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy triple front derailleur posted by Eric Amlie on 11/22/2000 at 9:44:17 AM
Thanks for all your answers guys. The Super Sport had SunTour derailleurs on it when I got it so it already is not original. I am not too concerned with keeping it original (just so I can put it back to original if I decide too). I would like to keep it somewhat retro though. Keith, according to Sutherlands the Nouvo Record will only handle an 11 tooth difference in chainwheels. The NR was my first choice until I read that. Perhaps they are wrong though. John, I agree about the higher gears. At my age & weight I almost never use the highest gears anyway. This is also the reason I wanted the 36 tooth chainwheel. I just bought an Ofmega (Campy NR copy) triple on Ebay. I am toying with the idea of putting that on the bike but with a 30 tooth small chainwheel that leads to an even worse problem finding a retro front derailleur. I would probably use a Campy Rally or Shimano Crane GS (if I can find one) rear. I guess I may have to abandon the retro front and just get a 105 as Keith suggests. I'll keep my eyes open for that Simplex though.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy triple front derailleur posted by Bill Putnam on 11/22/2000 at 10:08:50 AM
If you do put a Nuovo Record front derailler on your Super
Sport, remember that the seat tube outside diameter is
slightly larger than standard. I carefully filed the
inside of the clamp area near the pinch bolt to get mine
to fit after breaking the aluminum clamp on another Nuovo
Record Derailler.

Also, if you have an older Super Sport with the Huret Drop
outs, you may want to have your LBS tap the threads, as if
I recall the threads in the Huret were slightly different
than on Campy.

I set my Super Sport up for touring with a 28/45/52 triple
and the Nuovo Record front derailler would do this, but I
always shifted carefully-the shifting isn't anywhere near
what a modern triple derailler will do. Also, I have a
Rally derailler on the rear which doesn't shift all that
well either. I remember a friends Crane GS and that was
a much better shifting derailler (same make and ratio
freewheel, and old Sedisport chain.) You might consider
keeping the Sun Tour deraillers that are on the bike now-
they are somewhat retro and shift better than the old
Campy.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy triple front derailleur posted by Keith on 11/22/2000 at 10:54:30 AM
Sorry, I wasn't paying attention to the 36/52 -- I was just saying what came on a '71 P-15. But I wouldn't be surprised if the NR worked beyond the Sutherland's recommended range. The old Huret Standard on my Gitane Interclub handled a 36/52. In all I like John's idea of a 36/50 best. Most modern road fronts should easily handle that. Bicycle Classics has new Campy Rally rear derailleurs. I've never used one, though I have a friend who's used one on his Gitane form many years without a hitch. But like a lot of the old Campy stuff, Frank Berto pans it in the Dancing Chain as inferior to cheaper Suntour, consistent with Bill's remarks. BTW, I think the Super Sport is an interesting and cool bike. It's amazing to think they were hand filet brazed in the "cage" where the Paramounts were made. And the Paramount tandem was really basically a tandem Super Sport. It's unfortunate they were marketed and spec'd to be just a notch above the Continental.

   derailleur mounting suggestions posted by John E on 11/22/2000 at 12:45:40 PM
The simplest solution to mounting an industry-standard clamp-on front derailleur on a Schwinn seat tube is to make a shim out of a strip of steel or aluminum. (I also did this when I put SunTour downtube levers on my Varsity, which had come with TwinStiks.)

The simplest solution for changing rear derailleur brands is to hang the new derailleur from the original derailleur's mounting bolt, with a little judicious shimming or filing as needed.

I agree with Keith about the Super Sport, which is a well-kept secret between the venerable Paramount and the ubiquitous Varsity and Continental ("Varsinental"?).

   RE:derailleur mounting suggestions posted by Eric Amlie on 11/23/2000 at 8:42:37 AM
John, your suggestion on shimming the front derailleur is a good one, but not applicable to the Super Sport. The "Varsinentals" have tubing diameter of 1.000" with about another .005" for paint thickness. I measured the Super Sport seat tube at 1.165". This is even bigger than the standard 1.125" that I expected to find. Bill Putnam speaks of this above. Unfortunately my Paramount is in winter storage in a friends basement so I can't measure it or take a good close look at that front derailleur right now. I think the Paramount tube diameter is the standard 1.125 though. The Super Sport also has brazed in Huret dropouts with the rear derailleur hanger cast in so unless there is a threading issue (as Bill Putnam also speaks to) the rear derailleur should not need the mounting "claw". Just bought the newer Campy Rally (not the good one) off Ebay. I will try to use that on the Super Sport.