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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix 10-speed? posted by: Bob Smith on 7/31/2000 at 2:02:10 PM
I just bought a nice looking men's lugged frame Raleigh Grand Prix 10-speed road bike at a thrift shop. It's in good shape and seems to be of good quality, even has a nice Brooks leather saddle. I've seen a Raleigh Rapide 10-speed and this Grand Prix is of higher quality. It's about the quality of the Japanese Schwinn Le Tours.

It's probably not worth much as it's likely a '70s bike of Japanese or Taiwanese manufacture, but I'd like to learn something about it as I lubricate it and get it on the road. So far I can't find anything on Raleighs other than the English 3-speeds.

Is there a way to identify the bike, year & quality and does anyone know of a place/website to look for information?

Thanks!

Bob


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix 10-speed? posted by Keith on 8/1/2000 at 6:20:37 AM
The Brooks saddle suggests that it's an British-made Raleigh. Check the headbadge -- if it says Nottingham England at the bottom, then you've got the real thing. The Grand Prix was a lower-end bike, right above the Record, but below the Super Course. The frame is plain steel. You can look up the specs and get an idea of the year of manufacture at the Raleigh Heritage site (sorry, I don't have the address) -- they have bunches of old catalogs you can browse online. In my opinion a Grand Prix falls into the catagory of not sought after or collectable, not worth sinking lots of money into, but worth preserving and riding.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix 10-speed? posted by Keith on 8/1/2000 at 7:21:30 AM
Sorry, not Raleigh Heritage, it's Retro Raleighs -- www.speakeasy.org/'tabula/raleigh/raleigh-home.html

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Grand Prix 10-speed? posted by Gary Smith on 8/1/2000 at 8:01:30 AM
I bought a Raleigh Grand Prix at a thrift shop last year just like you've described for $2, cleaned it up and overhauled it. I enjoy riding it (nearly every day). Its comfortable and one of the smoothest bikes I have. I highly recommend you fix yours up and use it as its a good every day rider.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1949 Giro book posted by: Keith on 7/31/2000 at 6:29:09 AM
I recommend to all vintage fans, Buzatti's The Giro d' Italia, Coppi versus Bartali at the 1949 Tour of Italy, recently translated into English and published by Velo Press (1999). Bombastic, beautiful stage race coverage with a hint of flavor of Homer's Illiad and Dante's Divine Comedy.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1949 Giro book posted by Keith on 7/31/2000 at 9:30:44 AM
Sorry, make that "Buzzati."






FOR SALE:   For Sale Page Updated posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 7/30/2000 at 2:06:52 PM
We've just updated our "Bicycles and Parts For Sale" page. You can get to it
using the links at the top of this page. We've added some Ballooner, Musclebike,
English and Vintage Lightweight bicycles and parts. We've also added a couple
*Motorized Bicycles*.

VVVintage Vintage Bicycles
http://OldRoads.com








AGE / VALUE:   Mystery Bike posted by: PETE on 7/30/2000 at 11:12:56 AM
I have read most of your topic discussions, and I know there is someone out there who can help me. I have this bike that does not exist. All I know is that it says on the front plate that it is a Tyler bike made in Poland. It is red with all black tires and a white seat. The seat is a hard leather or vinyl with two springs.It also has white grips. I could use any information on the bike.







AGE / VALUE:   Campy derail posted by: racerrex on 7/28/2000 at 9:37:54 PM
I have a campy derailer marked "nuovo gran sport". I'm not familier with the campy grading system and was wondering if this is worth using. It looks like it needs an intermediate mounting bracket or flange. Is there somewhere on line to find a good exploded view?


    Campag Nuovo Gran Sport posted by John E on 7/31/2000 at 6:51:11 AM
According to Berto et al., ["The Dancing Chain," p. 204],
"In 1974, ... the Nuovo Gran Sport replaced the Velox." The
chart on p. 323 lists it as a "medium price racing" model,
between the Nuovo Record/Super Record and the Velox. The
photo of a dissected Campag. NR derailleur on p. 312 may be
helpful, but I saw no exploded diagram of the NGS in the
book. Since the NGS does not shift particularly well, and
since it also lacks the prestige of the Record line, I
personally would place minimal value on it. (Those were the
days when the still patent-protected SunTour slant
planograph design put everyone else, irrespective of price,
to shame.)






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carnielli Handlebar posted by: dean on 7/28/2000 at 9:04:45 PM
I am restoring a 1972 Bottecchia Giro. I always thought that the handlebar was Cinnelli, but on closer inspection it says "Carnielli." Anyone know if this is original equipment or anything about Carnielli?







MISC:   1962 schwinn traveler posted by: hal on 7/27/2000 at 11:21:50 AM
I have had this bike forever, all original, plan to hang on to it, and still ride it around the neighborhood.
It has a Sturmy Archer three speed internal hub, and generator lights, that probably needs to rewired to have lights. But would like to have some idea of value, and
any thing I should do or watch for to keep it maintained.


   RE:MISC:   1962 schwinn traveler posted by Marco on 7/27/2000 at 6:08:42 PM
Great bike, I've got one exactly like it. These aren't terribly collectible, but in 25 more years, who knows. Current market value may be from $100-$250 depending on originality and condition. Maintainence is simple: Keep it clean, keep it in the garage and change the oil every 3000 miles.






AGE / VALUE:   Holdsworth find posted by: ChristopherRobin on 7/27/2000 at 6:45:57 AM
What else is there? Chater-lea parts, French Cyclo, Capyanolo(it is early) Vintage Sturmey-Archer, Rene Herse, Old bicycle tools, truing stands? What else is there? The other fellow was right you want to go for the large size frames and ornate workmanship, Mafac Driver brakes, Mafac compettion brakes, Juy Simplex deraileurs can be worth big dollars! Play it smart, make us proud come down there with some extra cash.







AGE / VALUE:   Help !!! posted by: Mike on 7/26/2000 at 1:19:59 PM
HELP!!! I have the opportunity to get my hands on many old Holdsworth bikes. Does anyone know if these are worth buying. They all seem to be in very good condition. I can also purchase a few Falcon bikes.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help !!! posted by KCTOMMY on 7/26/2000 at 3:13:31 PM
Holdsworth was a famous English builder back in the 70's, and a little into the 80s. Nice touring bikes, and made some nice racing frames, also. If the frames are constructed of Reynolds 531 double butted main tubes, forks and stays (there should be a sticker on the frame indicating the type of tubing) and are in decent condition, they should be of interest to riders. I don't think that Holdsworths have the cachet or market power of Italian frames but I know I would want one. Let me know if you get a 62cm touring frame.

Falcons aren't as well known in the states, but can be equally good quality. However I've seen some really cheap, tacky Falcons. Again, check for construction with quality tubing and good lugwork.

   that magic green/gold/black decal posted by John E on 7/27/2000 at 7:14:57 AM
A bike's value is determined by age, condition, brand name,
frame workmanship and tubing quality, and, to a lesser
extent, by component quality. If present, that little
square-inch black decal with the big green 531 and gold
lettering says it all. A full "Reynolds 531 double-butted
frame, forks, and stays" bike is worth far more than one
with a "531 butted main (3) tubes" frame, which in turn is
worth far more than a plain carbon steel frame. Since
Holdsworth made a pretty broad product line, I do not know
what you have.

The nice thing about English or Italian bikes is that one
can still easily obtain parts for upgrades.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help !!! posted by Keith on 7/31/2000 at 12:21:55 PM
I recall something about Holdsworth making some great team bikes in the early 70s -- can't remember if anyone noteworthy rode them. A local guy even had one re-painted and decaled to match a pic of a team bike on the cover of an old racing magazine. I think this seems to boost the value of the brand -- that it can be seen ridden by someone prominent in old pics of the European peloton. If you acquire truly NOS never-been-built 531 db Holdsworth frames, yeah, I'd want one too (60cm ct). I saw a beautiful 1970 all-Campy Falcon this weekend -- very crisp somewhat fancy chromed lugs. But I've seen mediocre ones too.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help !!! posted by Keith on 7/31/2000 at 12:36:14 PM
P.S. There's a complete Holdsworth on Ebay right now. I'd watch for what it actually sells for. Look at asking prices for similar vintage frames at the various sites -- cycles de oro, recycledcycles.net, etc. to get an idea of value. Honestly guys, I think the market for 70s vintage lightweights is, to quote an expert, "thin," and will disappear once the generation that rode them is done thinking about them. My shot in the dark for a fair price would be $350 or so each, unless you've uncovered a stash of rare team bikes, but I'd look to buy them for MUCH LESS if you plan on re-selling them. I'm sure some may say they're worth more -- let THEM try to resell them!

   good Holdsworthy article posted by John E on 8/2/2000 at 7:11:12 AM
Check out:
http://www.cyclingutah.com/may/may99/classic.html

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help !!! posted by Keith on 8/3/2000 at 7:48:02 AM
Good article! I love the tea break -- how qualintly British. The 64cm 1972 Holdsworth, with mixed 80s components, on Ebay went for $574 on August 1. I'd still suggest resell value of about $350 for frames, or $700-$750 or so for Campy NR-equiped bikes (so you need to get them for much less of your idea is to make money). If you stumbled onto really cool team bikes whose history you can trace, then you might get more from the few confirmed Holdsworth nuts out there, wherever they are.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Kool Stop brake pads posted by: Eric Amlie on 7/26/2000 at 7:05:51 AM
I have a bunch of '60s vintage Schwinn "lightweights" with Weinmann brakes which need the pads replaced. I have seen discussions that "Kool Stops" are the ones to go with. I went to my local bike store and found quite a selection of Kool Stop pads, but none resembled the old Weinmann pads for these tapered S-5 and S-6 rims. They all looked like they were for the more modern straight sided rims. Does anyone know the model # of Kool Stop that I should use?
Thanks.


     Kool Stop brake pads posted by John E on 7/26/2000 at 7:38:17 AM
Although the pads are square-cut, their cupped washers
permit you to orient them as required when you mount them
on your brake arms. I use them on all four of my bikes
(1961 to 1988 vintage) and recommend them highly.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Kool Stop brake pads posted by Fred on 7/27/2000 at 7:26:12 PM
I have Kool Stop reds on my custom built Fuji and they stop better in wet or dry conditions than any other type pad I have used.






AGE / VALUE:   WEST GERMAN ROAD BIKE posted by: Marco on 7/25/2000 at 7:11:35 PM
I would appreciate any info on a 10 speed road bike possibly 30-35 years old made in West Germany. The components are for the most part, Simplex and the brakes are Universal. The fragmented decal says something like "Streich...", but I can't be sure.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WEST GERMAN ROAD BIKE posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/26/2000 at 7:26:10 AM
West German bicycles, German bicycles in general are like the dark side of the moon! We know it is there but we never see it. I am amazed I do not know hardly anything about German bikes. Sachs gears and only a few other exceptions.

   Swiss BB threads posted by John E on 7/26/2000 at 7:58:30 AM
I agree with Mr. Robin. By the way, when restoring any
German or Austrian bike, bear in mind that the bottom
bracket is Swiss-threaded (35mm diameter x 1 thread/mm,
left-threaded fixed cup). In a mostly-metric world, it is
ironic that the only fully metric BB standards, French and
Swiss, are the two that have become obsolete. Swiss was
always the rarest of the four, and parts are becoming
somewhat scarce.

I would expect a typical older German bike to be somewhat
like my 1961 Austrian touring bike -- sturdily built and
beautifully brazed. The workmanship is stunning,
particularly by today's TIG-welded standards. Unfortunately,
I doubt yours is a collectible, unless it is in pristine
condition. (Mine was a $20 yard sale find.)

As to why we almost never see German bikes in the U.S., I
suspect they were overwhelmed by Steyr-Daimler-Puch /
AustroDaimler's sheer size and aggressive marketing. (S-D-P
made the original, lightweight Sears Free Spirits, before
Huffy or Murray took over the contract.) East Germany made
utilitarian bikes (and Trabant autos), West Germany made
a few high-end performance bikes, such as Rickert, but
Austria produced and exported a full product range.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WEST GERMAN ROAD BIKE posted by ART on 7/26/2000 at 9:18:32 PM
I had a Torpedo once, which I vbelieve is a German bike, single speed, with a very long wheel base. I also found an unusual West German bike. It has aluminum aero tubing,Shimano AX components, and a badge that had the letters KHS overlapped on it. I got an explanation that the bike was indeed made my KHS but it was manufactured in Germany..I don't know if this was true, but unfortunately the bike died an unpleasant death...but that's another topic.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   WEST GERMAN ROAD BIKE posted by Chuck on 7/29/2000 at 6:06:23 AM
Your West German road bike is probably a "Staiger". I own one from same era (30 years old+) and the craftsmanship is above-average. Could be collectible--I don't know. If anyone has further info on this bike, please post it because I would also be interested.






AGE / VALUE:   WEST GERMAN ROAD BIKE posted by: Marco on 7/25/2000 at 7:11:35 PM
I would appreciate any info on a 10 speed road bike possibly 30-35 years old made in West Germany. The components are for the most part, Simplex and the brakes are Universal. The fragmented decal says something like "Streich...", but I can't be sure.







AGE / VALUE:   world vayaguer posted by: nick on 7/14/2000 at 10:15:38 PM
found: schwinn world voyaguer made for schwinn chicago in japan serial #2E1962 orange with chrome lugs, chrome fork ends and chrome seat/chain stays. Dura ace cranks. Bar end shifters and mostly alloy components. can ayone tell me how old it is or if its a keeper(rare).


   decent Japanese touring bike posted by John E on 7/25/2000 at 4:32:27 PM
The Schwinn World Voyager is a decent Japanese touring bike,
eminently suitable for commuting or recreational riding, but
probably not a collectible, although I suppose one could get
lucky on E-Bay.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   world vayaguer posted by Keith on 8/1/2000 at 6:25:18 AM
A local rider rode an old Schwinn Voyager -- equiped basically as you describe -- on the grueling Paris-Brest-Paris ride. You could ride that bike around the world and back. But I fully agree -- not sought after or collectable.






AGE / VALUE:   world vayaguer posted by: nick on 7/14/2000 at 10:15:38 PM
found: schwinn world voyaguer made for schwinn chicago in japan







AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 531 3-Spd posted by: Tim Welsh on 7/24/2000 at 4:18:13 PM
A local bike shop has an OLD Raleigh racer with 531 plain guage, drop bars, orig fenders & light (like an oil lamp!), and a S-A 3 spd hub. Bike looks all orig, in pretty good shape. Value anyone? Thanks.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 531 3-Spd posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/25/2000 at 9:22:58 AM
These do not pop up in thew bike shops hardle ever so I would snap it up. E- mail me with pictures after you get it. http://www.ChristopherRobin@starmail.com

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 531 3-Spd posted by Tim Welsh on 7/25/2000 at 3:13:10 PM
Mr Robin, Thanks for you response.

Looks like I can get the bike for about US $130. Is this a safe value to pick it up for?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 531 3-Spd posted by Tim Welsh on 7/25/2000 at 3:13:44 PM
Mr Robin, Thanks for you response.

Looks like I can get the bike for about US $130. Is this a safe value to pick it up for?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 531 3-Spd posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 7/25/2000 at 4:30:40 PM
I believe this sounds acceptable. Reynolds does not make 531 tubing anymore, they were sold and the new owner does not make it anymore. What does the rear hub say on it? The A.W. is the basic, common, bread and butter hub. This should have a Sturmey-Archer F.W.(four speed wide ratio) or better yet a F.M.(four speed medium ratio) The S.W. is a replacement for the A.W.(three speed)that did not last too long ( semi-rare, but nothing special) This should have Blumels mudguards (plastic or rather celluloid) a lightweight alloy seat post,(G.B.) alloy Hidiumium brakes by G.B. the rims should be nicer than usual steel rims. These should say "Dunlop special stainless steel lightweight" The leather seat should be a Brooks or a Lycette. Does this have any bell or a rear rack or a light set or a water bottle attached? Does this have a Lucas cyclometer thing on the front wheel? Usually the shop will have a basic Raleigh Sports or if you are lucky a Raleigh Supurbe (sports but with a locking fork and a dynohub generator with head and tail light.) and they would be asking this same price but you have stumbled upon a bike worth sinking the money into. If the frame is nice, the decals are there(by the way what does this bike have written on it?) What model is this? What color is this? What size frame measuring from the center of the bottom bracket axle(called a spindle, where pedals attach with wedge pins ("cotter pins") should be a 22 or if you are lucky a 24 inch frame. A larger frame is worth a bit more, so I am told.Pick it up and get it road worhty and have some fun the bike will be light and fast and you will like it. You could always put it up on E-bay if you do not want to keep it.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh 531 3-Spd posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/25/2000 at 4:37:16 PM
I would play it cool if I were you If you go in there and ask all kinds of questions these guys likely do not know themselves then they may decide to keep it and place it up on E-bay themselves. It is just an old bicycle, Ok? That old thing over in the corner. I would ask "So how did you get this anyway? and get a reciept from them.