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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







AGE / VALUE:   Araya posted by: Bob on 6/22/2001 at 10:11:13 AM
Saw an interesting bike several times recently and then again today.

Painted silver, it is marked by only one small badge "Araya" under a stylized "A". There was what might be a tubing sticker but I would have to stand on my head to read it so I didn't. Set up as a touring bike with fenders it has a quality look to it. Interesting cut out work on the lugs and seemingly good quality Asian components. I didn't look at it too closely. No listing for this brand at Sheldon't site or Classic Rendevous. Anyone know about these bikes.

The current owner (I don't know him) isn't taking very good care of this machine and I hate to see a good bike trashed by neglect. I might offer to buy it if it is as good as it looks at first glance.


   More Info posted by Bob on 6/22/2001 at 12:00:46 PM
The Araya has Weinmann 780 sidepulls, and Suntour V deraileurs. Brake cable routing is braze-on on the underside of the top tube. The hubs are high flange but I can't see a maker -- too many cut outs for Campy or Normandy. Arims are Araya. Gearing looks like 2X5 with a wide cluster in the rear. A really odd thing about this frame is the chainstays in the back -- they have a relatively large tube diameter -- much larger than my French bikes from the same period. The lugs have some interesting cutouts, but they are "heavy"-- there is still a lot of metal there.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Araya posted by Brian L. on 6/22/2001 at 12:01:41 PM
Araya has made decent to good quality rims and miscellaneous components for years. I was not aware that they also made (or had made for them) frames. In any case, I would wager that an Araya frame would be rare in the U.S.

   Araya bicycle? That's news to me! posted by John E on 6/22/2001 at 12:34:33 PM
The combination of sidepulls, fat chainstays, 5 cogs, under-tube brake cable routing, and high-flange hubs says "mid 1970s" to me. If the serial number is stamped into the bottom bracket shell and begins with "KS," it's a Kawamura (Nishiki's frame builder during that period).

   RE:Araya bicycle? That's news to me! posted by Log on 6/25/2001 at 9:36:46 PM
Araya did build frames during the 70's for Concord. I have two of them and they are my favorite bikes. I also think Araya made the hubs ( I've seen them) if not Shimano hubs were common with Araya rims. Concord although built their own rims and hubs (I replaced them on one of them with Aluminum Arayas) That should be a good bike to ride if the frame is like a Concord especially with those components.






AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by: Kevin on 6/22/2001 at 9:42:35 AM
Hi. While there is info on the older fillet brazed Super Sports, and on the 90's bikes, little is known of the Japanses built models from the 80's. Can anyone provide any facts on these bikes? Were they of Le Tour quality, or superior? What components were on them? Thanks, Kevin


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by HYNIE on 6/24/2001 at 12:39:28 AM
I FOUND A JAPANESE SCHWINN SUPER SPORT SP THAT WAS ALOT BETTER THAN THE LE TOUR, TRAVELER OR VOYAGERS. IT HAS SUNTOUR CYCLONE DERAILERS WITH A SUGINO AT TRIPLE CRANK, ROYAL GRAN COMPE SIDE PULLS, SR STEM AND BARS, SR LAPRADE SEATPOST, AVOCET TOURING II SADDLE ALLOY RIMS AND HUBS AND FRONT AND REAR RACKS WITH ALOT OF BRAZE-ONS.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Kevin on 6/24/2001 at 7:59:43 AM
Cool! Any chance you could send me some pics? Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SCHWINN SUPER SPORT posted by Bob Hufford on 6/24/2001 at 9:35:51 PM
Kevin,

I just sold a mid-80's Super Sport on eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1155482839

They are a step above the '70s Le Tours, Super Le Tours and Voyageurs. This one was Columbus Tenax tubing with Shimano 600. Others years were Tange tubing and Shimano 105. The mid-'80s to early '90s Japanese production bikes were the best bang for the buck, but don't have a collector following except for a few exceptions like the Bridgestone RB-1 or a couple of examples from Centurion (Dave Scott Ironman or Pro Tour). There are bargains to be had!







AGE / VALUE:   Benotto 650 posted by: Tim Welsh on 6/20/2001 at 12:38:57 AM
Greetings and all that. I have come to have a Benotto 650 in near perfect condition. I guess its an Mexican made bike, as it doesn't seem all that special in construction or weight. Still its a classy bike. The components are Shimano 600 from the era when they had the beautiful scroll work on them (there's lots of 600s from that era in my city, Shimano must have sold this model heavily). The frame and components are all nearly scratch and wear free. Anyone know about these bikes?


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Benotto 650 posted by Bob on 6/21/2001 at 9:53:09 AM
The Benottos in my area were imported as frames and built up by a local bike shop. Shimano 600 suggests a mid-price range bike. The really high-end Benottos were numbered as thousand series, i.e., 3000. One would also expect Campy components. Have a look at:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/Italy/Benotto_main.htm

If the bike is in excellent condition and the components are period correct it might be worth something.






AGE / VALUE:   sears bike posted by: jacob on 6/19/2001 at 9:43:18 AM
hello,
I bought a Sears-Roebuck 3-speed bike at a thrift store. Is there any way i can
determine the year by the serial number?
thanx,
jacob


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   sears bike posted by Walter on 6/19/2001 at 4:33:11 PM
From what I understand of Sears products is that in the '70s and earlier they were Austrian made and of decent quality. After that they were for all intents and purposes if not literally Huffys. The people on the English Roadster page might be able to help out with Austrian Sears. I doubt anyone has a database for the Huffys. I could be wrong though and hopefully some people with more definite info will post.

   sears bike posted by John E on 6/19/2001 at 6:12:43 PM
If it has a 3-piece crank and lugged frame, it is a Steyr-[Austro]Daimler-Puch product, and quite reliable, decent, and worth keeping. If it has a one-piece crank and welded frame and weighs a ton, it is a Huffy, and quite worth donating back to the thrift shop.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   sears bike posted by Gary M on 6/19/2001 at 10:56:44 PM
I have a real nice Austrian Mens Roadster here, and a parts bike, make offer.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:sears bike posted by Mike Stone on 6/21/2001 at 1:47:21 AM
I was lucky enough to see one of the Sears Austrian three-speeds at a Church Flea market that had all it's papers. It was in absolutely mint - I mean NEW condition. It was $2.00 and I didn't buy it. It had all the original papers and even the reciept. This was the traditional Sears three speed that we see so often with the big white/tan diamond and small black round 'Sears' decal on the post tube; very nice machine.

Believe it or not, the bike was from 1958!

I used to think that those bikes were from the '70's or maybe the '60's, but they are a lot older than many people realize.

I have parted out a lot of these bikes and it is painful to do because as riders, they are very nice machines.

   Austrian frame durability posted by John E on 6/21/2001 at 7:09:21 AM
My LBS has sold Bianchis for years, also sold Austro-Daimlers in the 1980s, and services anything that walks in the door. The proprietor says he has yet to see an uncrashed Steyr-Daimler-Puch frame fail from metal fatigue. The same claim can probably be made for American-built Schwinn 10-speeds, but not for most European or Japanese lightweights.

   RE:American frame durability posted by Eric Amlie on 6/21/2001 at 8:41:50 AM
I have a '64 Schwinn Traveler (3 speed) which had the seat tube broken at the top of the internal lug which connects it to the bottom bracket. I mig welded it back together and am considering building it back up with a Nexus 7 speed hub. Any opinions on whether the weld will hold? Is this dangerous?

   frame repairs posted by John E on 6/21/2001 at 11:14:10 AM
Fortunately, Eric, that is probably the least dangerous of the common frame failure points. (On my Nishiki SemiPro, the seat tube lug portion of the bottom bracket shell broke off, and I was able to pedal it gently home.) Since the heat of your weld may have weakend the surrounding metal, I would not offer a warranty on the repair. If you have another use for the Nexus hub, go ahead and build this one up and ride it until the frame breaks again.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   sears bike posted by Log on 6/25/2001 at 9:50:03 PM
I've had a few of those. The date manufactured should be either on the back of the crank arm, under the seat, or on the bottom of the bottom bracket. The older ones were built in Austria yet the newer ones built by Murray not Huffy(not much differance!) Murray built manybikes for Sears, J.C.Penneys, and other retailers that marketed them as their own.
The early ones were good riders though.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bianchi serial numbers / date codes posted by: John E on 6/19/2001 at 7:37:11 AM
Does anyone have, or know where to find, a Bianchi date code / serial number chart? I have never been able to locate one for "Edward White's" [i.e., Edoardo Bianchi] creations.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bianchi serial numbers / date codes posted by Ed on 6/19/2001 at 7:50:33 AM
If you locate one,please let us know about it. Thanks






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Sturmey Archer Lightweight hubs posted by: Tom on 6/19/2001 at 12:03:05 AM
Does anyone know what years Sturmey Archer made lightweight road bike hubs large flange with freewheels. What bikes were made with these. Did they use 5, 4 or 3 gears?







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cantilevers posted by: Oscar on 6/18/2001 at 8:10:17 PM
It seems that some time in the late 80's, cantilevers went from high profile to low profile. That's fine with me, but, from my point of view, high profile brakes look better. Especially with that super-long straddle cable.

Is there any performance difference between high profile and low?


   straddle cable length posted by John E on 6/19/2001 at 6:49:54 AM
The straddle cable acts as a force multiplier. In general, a shorter straddle cable, with its flatter (less acute) angle, will pull on the brake arms with greater force than a longer one will. (By the same principle, the tension on a tight clothesline greatly exceeds the downward force applied to it.) If you really want that long cable, you need to compensate with high-friction brake pads, such as KoolStops.

   RE:straddle cable length posted by Oscar on 6/19/2001 at 6:29:17 PM
Thanks for the knowledge. My brother gave me his old mountainbike to strip. I was glad to see that he's a Kool Stop man himself.

He had the LBS put on a new crank for a 500 mile AIDS ride three years ago. I find out that he's been riding a 175 crankarm on the left and 170 on the right for thousands of miles. He probably thinks his new bike is screwed up because it's normal.

The bb cups seem to be misthreaded and locked in place, too. That's why they gave him the "buy a new bike" speech. He now has a Trek hybrid with suspension seatpost and stem. He looks every bit the urban gentleman on it.

   BB threads posted by John E on 6/20/2001 at 6:53:02 AM
> The bb cups seem to be misthreaded and locked in place, too

Perhaps someone forced Swiss-threaded cups into a British-threaded BB. The diameters are virtually the same, and the thread pitch differs by about 6 percent.






AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn & Benotto posted by: Tim Welsh on 6/18/2001 at 4:17:14 PM
Hello. There's a bus strike in my City (Vancouver), and so many old bikes have come out of basements that my neck is getting sore from checking them all out on the bike route. Near my work every day a beautiful old Schwinn Varsity is parked, green and orig down to the shiny bar tape. Is there any value to such a bike? It is from the 'Lemon Peeler' era, judging from the Schwinn graphics.

Also, I found an old Benotto frame someone was ditching, and it is made with Vitus steel (not aluminum) tubing. It's a true hand-build classic lightweight, nice lugs and all. I'm building it up as a fast urban warrior. Anyone know about age/whatever for Benotto bikes using Vitus steel?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn & Benotto posted by Oscar on 6/18/2001 at 7:45:29 PM
Here in Chicago, we still have a lot of them around. Most wouldn't be considered valuable as a collectable. There were just too many made. Those who do collect them would tell you that the ones with any value were made before 1974. Personally, I would dig one from prior to 1966 when they still had downtube shifters. Whatever the year, they were virtually indestructable.

I know little about Benottos, except that they were orignally an Italian company who moved their production to Mexico. Vitus tubing is fairly a mark of quality, so you probably have a nice bike on your hands.

Good luck with the bus strike. If you see my friend Vince, say hello.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn & Benotto posted by Tim Welsh on 6/18/2001 at 11:59:13 PM
The Schwinn Varsity has downtube shifters, so its from before 1966? The Schwinn logo has a couple of funky stars around it, and the seams at the steerer tube are filled and finished (looks molded).

   Varsity age posted by John E on 6/19/2001 at 6:57:00 AM
Check the Schwinn's serial number, using the charts on this website. Until 1964, the leading letter denoted the month of production, and the first digit thereafter was the last digit of the year. Thus, A4xxxx = January, 1964. The only truly collectible Varsities are the 1960-61 8-speeds with the Simplex Competition ("suicide") front derailleurs, but almost any pre-1967 Varsity has some value, unlike the ubiquitous bike boom model, with the TwinSticks, mattress saddle, suicide brake extensions, and big chrome chainguard and spoke "protector."

   RE:Varsity age posted by Oscar on 6/19/2001 at 7:48:21 AM
The clean lines around the headtube are the most attractive part of a Chicago Schwinn frame. The frames were not brazed, they were electroforged. Essentially, the headtube to top tube junction IS molded, like you noticed. (Well, kind of. There's an interesting article about Schwinn's electroforging process at www.sheldonbrown.com.)

   Super Sport posted by John E on 6/19/2001 at 11:54:52 AM
To add to the confusion, the Super Sport, Superior (right, Eric?), and other mid-range Schwinn frames were fillet-brazed CrMo, but share the smooth look of the Varsinental electroforged frames.

   RE:Super Sport posted by Eric Amlie on 6/19/2001 at 2:37:07 PM
Yup, add the Sports Tourer to that list also. All Schwinn's (older) chrome-moly frames were fillet brazed. These have a decal near the bottom of the seat tube proclaiming the chrome-moly tubing. You can also tell them by the larger diameter of the tubing (about 1.165")






MISC:   Lambert posted by: Ray on 6/18/2001 at 3:17:36 PM
Just acquired an early 70s Lambert bicycle. Pretty light bike but a lot of proprietary parts. Brakes, Shifters, crank, seat skewer all Lambert alloy. Bike just like the one on Cycle de Oro page but not in as great of condition but not bad. Wheels have been changed out so has the seat. Also has a Carlton racing fork in place of the death fork as described in Harris Cycling page. Overall an interesting bike but not sure I will keep it.


   RE:MISC:   Lambert posted by Walter on 6/18/2001 at 6:40:10 PM
My experience with Lamberts came after the change to Viscount. While I rode a Motobecane a friend of mine was working his way up the Viscount ladder. I remember being very envious of the last one he had with a 22# weight. At this time (ca. 1977) such a low weight was very rare and expensive. Of course back then $1000 was real money not "entry" or "intermediate" as it seems to be today. His Viscount was less than half that amount.

It was SunTour equipped as I recall as was my Moto. At the time we were somewhat disdainful of Campy riders. "Campy snobs" was the term we used as they consistently looked down on our Japanese components even though the high-line SunTour and Shimano compared quite favorably with N. Record, esp. when it came to shifting performance.

Anyways, I'm digressing. You've got a neat bike. A bike that could run with the best stuff out there in the 1970s and was a real bargain. Lambert is rarer than Viscount but from what I've read neither are considered collectible, at least not yet. Good bike though, I'd keep it.

   RE:MISC:   Lambert posted by Ed on 6/19/2001 at 7:46:59 AM
I have a 1970 Lambert Grand Prix.The decal on the down tube indicates 15 speed, however ,at some point, the original triple chain wheel was replaced with a Lambert double chain wheel,also the rear derailler is a simplex.If I remember correctly.The deraillers in the Cycle de Oro photos had Lambert on them,as my front derailler does.Other than that my Lambert appears to be all original,wheels,Wrights saddle,death fork etc.The fork is fine so far,I've talked to a couple of mechanics,one who is a fellow Lambert owner,and was told by both that they had never seen any problem the fork.My bike will not be subjected to anything more strenous than normal road road use so I plan to keep an eye on the fork and let it alone for now. My only complaint with the bike is that I have to tighten the handlebars slightly after each ride.I've enjoyed the Lambert alot since I,ve owned it,no mechanical problem so far,quiet comfortable ride.Good luck with yours. Like Walter I would advise you to keep it.

      Lambert fork posted by John E on 6/19/2001 at 11:58:53 AM
> My only complaint with the bike is that I have to tighten the handlebars slightly after each ride.

I worry about you with that Fork of Death, Ed, particularly if you mean that the stem is coming loose inside the steerer tube. You may not be able to detect an impending failure if the steerer tube begins to separate from the crown. I would remove the fork and store it for posterity, and enjoy the bike with something mechanically sound. Since it's all British-threaded, you should have lots of options.






AGE / VALUE:   schwinn racer posted by: sean on 6/16/2001 at 2:30:50 PM
I just bought a schwinn racer this morning. The serial # is H249003. it only has 0ne speed and is in mint condition. its red has front calliper and rear coaster brakes. the seat is red and white and has a big S on it but its not made by schwinn. any info would be great!!!!!


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn racer posted by Oscar on 6/17/2001 at 6:41:27 PM
According to the serial number chart, your bike was built in August of 1962. Since the front has a caliper brake and the rear has a coaster, I wonder if you really have a two speed kickback, which were common in middleweight bikes of you Racer's vintage. The kickback had an easier "hill climbing" gear that you can get to by kicking back the pedals almost like applying the coaster brake. Try it and see if I'm right.

Nothing looks nicer than a clean red bike. Racers and Speedsters are some of my favorite Schwinns.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn racer posted by sam on 6/18/2001 at 10:06:51 AM
Kick backs all had 2 bands on the hub shell ,single speeds had one--the color of the bands were told the gearing.and as Oacar pointed out racers are one of the cleanest lookin schwinns made.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   schwinn racer posted by sean on 6/22/2001 at 8:35:21 AM
thanks for the great info! the rear hub has one red stripe, but i havent had a chance to try the kick back. this weekend i came across another bike that looked almost exact as the schwinn. except it said western auto and made in england. the bike was a three speed. any idea what this might be.






AGE / VALUE:   28" tires posted by: Bob on 6/15/2001 at 2:21:54 PM
I am looking at a used wheelset. The hubs are "Phil"and spin smoothly (as one might expect). The cluster is 7-speed so I suspect this pair dates from the early 1980s. The rims are apparently steel and also apparerntly 28". The tires are marked "28" and have knobby tread (after a fashion). Can one still get 28" tires? I assume these were a touring or tandem set up.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 posted by Kevin on 6/15/2001 at 4:09:40 PM
Hi. I purchased a bike some years back that had 28" tires on it, yet the rims read 700. I would try a set of 700's on them, just for grins. They might work. Kevin

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 posted by Warren on 6/15/2001 at 5:08:48 PM
Really unusual...true 28 " tires were not used on 7 speed clusters from the 80's...there were some European and Canadian tires labelled as 28 x 1 1/2 and were actually interchangeable with 700c's. I'd try a 700 first. Failing that you will have to measure from bead to bead. 28 inch tires are generally 635mm while 700c's are 622mm.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 posted by Warren on 6/15/2001 at 5:09:25 PM
Really unusual...true 28 " tires were not used on 7 speed clusters from the 80's...there were some European and Canadian tires labelled as 28 x 1 1/2 and were actually interchangeable with 700c's. I'd try a 700 first. Failing that you will have to measure from bead to bead. 28 inch tires are generally 635mm while 700c's are 622mm.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 posted by Warren on 6/15/2001 at 5:12:12 PM
Oops...twitchy finger and I failed to reload before posting.

   28 posted by John E on 6/15/2001 at 5:48:35 PM
There are two "28-inch" sizes: 700C-compatible, which yours probably are, and British roadster. The 7-speed freewheel would have been a trivial conversion from a 6-speed, and a fairly easy conversion from a 5-speed (new axle and spacers, plus re-dish). I saw a few of the fat 700C-style tyres around 1970, on European 3-speeds and 5-speeds.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:28 posted by Mike Stone on 6/15/2001 at 6:51:20 PM
They do make 28" tires. The traditional bike in China is an old Raleigh knock-off. They use 28" tires and you can get them brand spanking new. Look for sellers of the traditional Chinese single speed road bikes. I've seen them on the internet, but forget where. There are several. Do some surfing and one should turn up.

Mike Stone

Mike

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:???28 posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 6/16/2001 at 8:34:09 AM
Try http://www.SheldonBrown.com and look at his tire and rim chart information page. You can order a whole range of tires from Sheldon (Harris Cyclery) including 28 X 1 1/2 but you want to be sure that are ordering what you really need. This can be confusing.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   28 posted by sam on 6/18/2001 at 10:19:12 AM
As pointed out your bike most likely has one of the two common tires marked 28"---But antique bikes used 28" single tub tires,late 30s used cleancher 28" tires,and I saw at a thrift store a few weeks ago a matching pair of new German bikes with 28" x 2" tires






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crank arm removal for '70's vintage Peugeot posted by: Mike Stone on 6/15/2001 at 11:48:34 AM
Hey, what kind of crank arm pulling tool do I need for removing the crank arm from my '70's vintage Peugeot ten speed?

I bought a crank arm puller from the local bike shop, but the diameter is too small for the threads on the crank.

I looked at the Nashbar catalogue and a couple other tool sellers, but it doesn't seem that crank arm threads and diameters are listed.

Is there some special tool needed for removing the crank arm from a Peugeot?

Any idea where I can get one?

Mike Stone


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crank arm removal for '70's vintage Peugeot posted by Brian L. on 6/15/2001 at 1:50:49 PM
You need a French-thread crank puller, Stronglight or equivalent. I don't believe that anyone is manufacturing them anymore. They come up for sale occasionally on ebay. If your town has a retrogrouch friendly bike store, they probably have one to service your needs, but I doubt that they will sell it.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crank arm removal for '70's vintage Peugeot posted by Schwinnderella on 6/15/2001 at 5:48:53 PM
Speaking of tools ,anyone have a recommendation for an online seller of bicycle tools at a reasonable price. I need to replace some of mine as well as add a few new ones. Thank you

   I think Sheldon has them posted by John E on 6/15/2001 at 5:50:46 PM
TA and Stronglight both made pullers. (I have one of each.) Check with Sheldonbrown.com. If anyone can find them, he can!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Crank arm removal for '70's vintage Peugeot posted by mike slater on 6/15/2001 at 5:52:08 PM
Mike,
Harris Cyclery has the tool you need. If your crank is a Stronglight and predates 1982, then the threads are 23.35mm.
Order tool #395 from Harris.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:Crank arm removal for '70's vintage Peugeot posted by Mike Stone on 6/15/2001 at 6:47:10 PM
Thanks, Guys. I knew you would come through for me with good information. I will contact Sheldon and see if he has what I need.

From the markings, I think my Peugeot is a PX-10, but a previous owner put Camagnolo parts on it (no complaints here!).

She sure is a good rider, though. I plan to ride her on the 150 mile Shore to Shore Leukemia tour on the Wisconsin shore of Lake Michigan in July. I just rode her on 180 mile tour a couple of weeks ago and she held up better than any of the other machines on the tour - completely trouble free.

Mike Stone

   the frame is better than the parts posted by John E on 6/16/2001 at 10:50:30 AM
Peugeot frames tend to be better than the original parts. Your PX-10 with Campy should be a competent bike, a cut above my very satisfactory PKN-10, with I outfitted with SunTour Cyclone rear and Shimano 600 front derailleurs.






AGE / VALUE:   ebay/Bertoni posted by: Brian L. on 6/15/2001 at 8:18:57 AM
Watching ebay is clearly a common pastime amongst the regulars of this page. It's become a good historical resource and way of setting market prices for vintage and other bike goods.

I have what I consider a good range of vintage rides to suit all moods and weather considerations. Lately I have been desiring something with a more modern edge and have been scanning ebay religiously. Price cap for a frame was $180 inclusive of shipping. After about 3 months I scored a Bertoni for a grand total of $167.50. This is an amazingly beautiful bike with great and distinctive workmanship. Tubing is 100% Columbus Max which was the last of the wonder steel tube sets that mountain bike builders were using just at the advent of modern suspension. All differentially shaped and swagged, double-butted, aero rear brake routing, aero fork blades. Very clean filet brazing, 126 rear spacing with short Campy horizontal drop-outs, brake-on front mount. Italian-made, but looks to be higher quality American paint. Plan to build it up with a mix of 70's and 80's components.

Was told by seller that frame may have been made by Billato. That name sound familiar and it seems as though I recall that it may be fairly old. Does anyone know anything about either Bertoni or Billato?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay/Bertoni posted by Brian L. on 6/15/2001 at 8:30:10 AM
That should have been "braZe-on front mount"

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay/Bertoni posted by desmo on 6/15/2001 at 11:52:03 AM
I remember Bertoni as a maker of mid-range Italian bikes in the '80s and that's about it. As for Billato, I found this on Sheldon Brown's website:

Marin road bikes are built by Billato Linea Telai. Roberto Billato and his two brothers, Stephano and Silvano, have built the company their father founded just after the end of World War II into Italy's premier frame building company. And while you may not recognize the name Billato, you are familiar with the family's works of art. Billato frames have won World Championships both off-road and on the road, in countless many spring classics as well as in a little race called the Tour de France. Indeed, there are less than a handful of bicycle companies who can boast such a long list of victories. Which is certainly why many of the worlds most prestigious brands rely on the Billatos for their craftsmanship.

Contact info:

Billato Linea Telai snc
Zona Ind. Nord - IX Strada, 54/56
35129 PADOVA - ITALY Tel +39 0498072887 - 0498077461
Fax +39 049773730
E-mail info@billato.com












WANTED:   Need this pedal posted by: Ray on 6/14/2001 at 6:24:58 PM
Need the left pedal that looks like this one. Will buy set if you have. It is from a 1955 Peugeot that is nearly complete.
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1152841&a=8469637&p=37383820







AGE / VALUE:   Eisentraut 45CM "Alpine" posted by: Don/ollo on 6/14/2001 at 4:55:21 PM
Acquired this bike a few months ago from an old fellow who had it builtup by Bill Stevenson (here in Olympia, WA) for his wife in 1979. She seldom rode it. Decals are near new condition, paint has a few nicks from bike rack transport. Mavick wheels, Shimano 600 derailers, brakes & crank, Sun tour shifters. It has a nearly straight mountain bike type bar. I commute about 4 miles each way to work & usually ride an old Schwinn 3 spd Suburban or a Schwinn World Tourist. I really need a 52 or 53 CM frame but put on a tall seatpost & ride this bike when the sun shines. It rides & handles smoother than any new bike I have test ridden & weighs about 23pounds! I work with several dedicated riders & opinion is divided on value, one says not worth much because of age but another says this is a really great framemaker. I will probably sell it eventually, any thoughts on value? Or information on this model?


   Eisentraut posted by John E on 6/15/2001 at 11:13:28 AM
My opinion of Eisentraut's work is very high. You can find some information about him in classicrendezvous.com. Do not let it go too cheaply -- I would expect its value to increase with age.