OldRoads.com

This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
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which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

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which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Vintage Lightweights







AGE / VALUE:   Panasonic "Team" posted by: dave on 9/1/2002 at 3:02:46 PM
This appears to be a decent bike, with the frame being nicer than the components. Panasonic "Team" and underneath the
word "Team" on the top tube it said "Handmade". Tubing is
double butted Tange, dropouts are Tange as is the headset,
700 c Araya rims on generic Shimano hubs, Shimano Light Action
DRs, nice black suede saddle, LaPrade seatpost, Shimano 600
non aero levers, Dai Compe G calipers ... anyone know the
hieracy of Panasonic models?
thanks


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Panasonic posted by Darryl on 9/3/2002 at 12:13:27 PM
I have a Panasonic catalog from the mid 80s (they don't list the year) and the hierarchy then was

Team America
DX-5000
DX-4000
DX-3000
DX-2000
DX-2400(FOR SHORT RIDERS)
DX-1000
SPORT DX
All the above, except the Sport DX, has areo brake levers
so yours is older then this vintage year. The "Team" is on the top though.






AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Gypsy Touring Bike posted by: Patrick Lavery on 8/31/2002 at 12:53:01 PM
I looking for information on the Gitane Gyspy Touring Bike
I.e. years made, components , value etc.
Thanks in advance for any info you can provide


   Gitane Gypsy Touring Bike posted by John E on 8/31/2002 at 5:05:58 PM
Gitanes were nice bikes. Model-for-model, in workmanship and finish, they were generally a cut above Peugeot, about on par with Motobecane, and perhaps just below Bertin.

By the way, "Gitan" (Fr.) = "Gypsy" (Eng.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Gypsy Touring Bike posted by Patrick Lavery on 9/7/2002 at 4:20:24 PM
The Gitane Gypsy Sport that I just got was made in Taiwan
with Sun Tour GT Derailleurs, Sugino Crank and Dia Compe
brakes. The previous owner thought it was between 25 and 30
years old but couldn't be sure since he had purchased it
second hand. Is anybody out there familiar with the history of this model ? And since it was made in Taiwan does that mean it doesn't have the quirky French sizing ?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Gypsy Touring Bike posted by Patrick Lavery on 10/6/2002 at 4:12:39 PM
So far , I've drawn almost a complete blank on this model
Gitane. I've tried Sheldon Brown and Classic Rendevous
but nobody seems to be familiar with this particular model
Gitane. Some addittional info : the Fork is half chromed, the brakes are center pulls, and the fame is labeled "Tubes Legeres",(light tubing in French)The front derailleur is a Suntour Sprint. The frame is beautifully lugged with blue pinstiping around the edges of the lugs.
I even tried the Gitane Web site but never heard back






AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Keith on 8/30/2002 at 7:02:25 PM
Ray raises another good point -- part of the fuel for the interest is nostalgia. People who had Varsitys in the 1970s are now in their 40s, and can afford to go back and get the same bike they had (or wanted) as a kid. People are willing to fork out bucks to return to their younger days. I can understand that feeling -- I have it for my StingRay because those little bikes have a unique ride -- but I personally don't get warm and fuzzy about a 70s Varsity -- I had one at age 12-13, and couldn't wait to trade it in for a European lightweight, and the differnce in the ride was night and day (European lightweight w/tubular tires = flying; Varsity = lumbering along). Still, I now have a very pristine 70s Varsity, purchaced for $20 at a garage sale, mainly because the paint is perfect and it's the same color as the one I had. Now would I pay $150? Not likely. BTW,since this topic came up, I'm keeping an eye out for 70s vintage lightweight Schwinns as I ride to and from work. Easy to spot, with the large oval black on white headbadge, narrow tubing and Huret derailleurs. I see one or two nice ones every day, being used for transportation. They're sturdy and the chrome is better than on Euro bikes, so they've stood the test of time.


   nostalgia posted by John E on 8/30/2002 at 8:27:59 PM
My first bike was a fat-tyred Schwinn 2-speed middleweight; my second, a low-end Bianchi 10-speed. (I gave the Schwinn to my father and never looked back.) What do I ride now? A fat-tyred Schwinn [mountain bike] and a nice Bianchi road bike. The more things change, the more they stay the same, or something like that ...

   RE: Nostalgia    posted by Eric Amlie on 9/1/2002 at 3:24:53 PM
Keith hit it ride on the head for me. When I was 11 or twelve and all my friends were getting Varsities, I looked in the catalog and saw the 15 speed Sierra and Superior. I thought that would be just too cool (I've always been a gear freak and still am). About 10 years ago I started thinking about the '65 Varsity I used to have and that Sierra/Superior and started looking for them. That's what got me in to all this (I probably have 25 or so bikes now). As Keith said, I can afford this now much better than when I was young (I'm a little older than the folks Keith refers to but the theory is the same), but now space is a problem. I now have about 5 sixties vintage Varsities, a couple early sixties Continentals, a '62 Super Continental (15 speed), 3 Sierras, and a Superior. I also have various sixties vintage Travelers and Racers. I have two "good" bikes, a '71 P15-9 Paramount tourer, and a '70 or '71 Gitane Tour de France. I have one new bike, a Y2K Schwinn Super Sport GLX (last of the Reynolds 853 frames). Last night I just finished up a 1980 all chrome Voyageur 11.8 that I have been fixing up. Where will it all end? Soon I hope. It's getting out of hand. Of all my bikes the nicest riding is the Gitane. I'm not sure what it is about it but it is just SWEET.






AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 1950/1952 ??? posted by: Bill on 8/30/2002 at 3:22:26 AM
I have an old Schwinn mens bike. I have the serial # as well, unfortunately that's all. Well, other than it's red, has a front fender, and a rear luggage rack, no rear fender. Serial # is H550341. I checked the schwinn serial chart here at oldroads and this # is not in the series shown as far as I can tell. Can someone help me figure out what my bike is, model, year, etc.
Thanks to whoever hits me first, and second, and so on.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 1950/1952 ??? posted by Eric Amlie on 8/30/2002 at 1:14:48 PM
Looks like your s/n has one too many digits. Don't know what to make of that!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 1950/1952 ??? posted by Bill on 9/4/2002 at 2:01:34 AM
Thanks for the reply. Not sure what you mean by the extra digit in the serial #, cuz I looked at them here and it looks like I'm just not part of the list. Can you help me understand why you think I have the extra digit, and maybe what model I might have? I'm pretty sure it's one of the early 50's models, thats when the person I know who bought it would have. Thanks for the help...

   RE: S/N posted by Eric Amlie on 9/5/2002 at 12:59:12 PM
For a better listing of the serial numbers look at:

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/allday101/SchwinnCodes3.html

Normally I would think that your bike was made between 2/2 - 2/9 1953, but as you can see, these numbers have a letter followed by 5 numbers. Your s/n has a letter followed by 6 numbers. Later S/Ns had six numbers so I looked there next. I would then think that it was made in August (H) of 1965 (5) except that in 1965 Schwinn went to a new numbering system where the year was represented by another letter (A for '65, B for '66 etc.). Sooo, again, I don't know what to make of your S/N.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn 1950/1952 ??? posted by Bill on 9/11/2002 at 12:32:05 AM
Ok. I am sure there are six digits. The 53 serial # listings here show 6 digit numbers, just not one in my range. The other site you had me go to mentions at the top of page "Schwinn serial #'s for bikes made in Chicago". Was Chicago the only place Schwinns were made back then, or were there other places that may have serial #'d theirs with 6 digits? Why does oldroads show 6 digit numbers from years 52-53 with "H" front ends. Would they be mistaken? Still curious, I see six digits and am nearly positive it was purchased around 50 years ago. Guess I'll keep tryin things, there must be someplace that has thr info. Thanks for your help nevertheless. It's keeping me looking.






AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Corsa posted by: Rob on 8/29/2002 at 11:58:44 PM
I see there's been a fair bit of 'Raleigh/Carlton action' on this site lately...maybe it's a good time to ask again for a bit of information. I have a couple of old Carltons, late '60's; early '70's, which I plan to clean up and make roadworthy again. I got them for nothing during this year's spring clean-up week in a suburban community.

Here are the details: two bikes, very similar setup, one is orange, the other blue, the name on the top tube is, "Carlton Corsa". Stems and likely the bars, are GB, white Carlton brake hoods, brakes are 'MAFAC Racer'...I assume an exchange. One bike has a Huret Svelto rear der., the other an early Maeda (SunTour). One was set up as track bike with a single large steel crank ring (cottered), and a single arm Huret downtube shifter; on the other the front der. is missing , but it has a cottered steel double crankset. The rims , one of which I have partially cleaned up are steel with a beautiful chrome finish...no rust, no pitting. No quick releases, axle nuts have the letter, "C" embossed.

Can anyone give me more information? Frame tubing...is it Reynolds 531?...maybe double butted? Are the obviously attractive rims valuable, even though they are steel? Anything else...where did this model rank in the Carlton hierarchy? Likely year of manufacture? The community where I got the bikes has a lot of English emigrants, so it's quite possible someone brought them into Canada when they emigrated from England...


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Corsa posted by Gralyn on 8/30/2002 at 3:19:37 PM
The "C" on the wheel nuts is insteresting. I think it was some kind of fad or something. I have a bottom-of-the-line Raleigh which has these with "R" on them. I had a very near the bottom Peugeot with "P" on it's wheel and seat post nuts. I have a bottom-of-the-line MOtobecane with, you guessed it! "M" on the wheel nuts.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Corsa posted by Gnome on 8/31/2002 at 3:51:32 AM
I have a set of some old hubs bolts that have a "C" on them. White "C", red background. "C" as in Campagnolo! Hmmmm.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Corsa posted by Warren on 9/2/2002 at 12:46:30 AM
Definitely C for Carlton...I've got them. Campy never made an axle bolt like that.






AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by: Wallace.Z on 8/29/2002 at 11:59:37 AM
Hello All, About a week or so ago, I saw a post on this board about a NOS Schwinn Suburban going for almost $400.00! WOW! Now there's a Blue Schwinn Continental on eBay # 2134407792 thats near $160.00! Are these 10 speeds now becoming more collectable? I can remember seeing these Continental's & Varsity's at garage sales for $10 or $20 bucks a few years back. With the Skyrocking prices of these Schwinn's latly! I starting to think I'm in the wrong business? Any thought's??


    eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by John E on 8/30/2002 at 1:24:12 AM
I concur with your taste in old Schwinn lightweights, Ray. John Q. Public cannot figure out why a 1960 Conti is worth 10-20 times as much as a 1970 in similar condition.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Gralyn on 8/30/2002 at 3:08:04 AM
I stopped by the bike "supplier" - and the Suburban was still there. I'm pretty sure it was $35 at least. It was pretty rusty....so I still passed on it. All the bikes were still there from weeks ago...plus several more...of course, because they were all over-priced. Today, there was another Ross Grand Tour. It looked pretty good - but since it was so ordinary..and had 1020 tubing - I passed. There was also a Gitane. I believe it was from early to mid 80's.....but again...nothing special...and it had heavy steel cranks - regular steel frame - so I passed. It did have an Ideale leather saddle...but still, for $30 - I passed. There was an old Columbia - a small frame - and since one of my sons has been asking me to get him an "old man" bike - I thought I would pick it up for him. It's a 10-speed, Rigida rims, on-piece steel cranks - with the large bottom bracket. It wasn't as heavy as I thought it would be - not nearly as heavy as the Varsity. I think it's maybe a 1966 model. Well, anyway - everything in the store will be 1/2 price on Monday....too bad I will be out of town.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Gralyn on 8/29/2002 at 1:48:42 PM
I picked-up a Varsity a while back. I thought....why not, just to have one in my "collection". I don't really plan to ride it...it's a tank....but I thought it would be neat to have one. It cost me only $10. I haven't even cleaned it up and tuned it up yet. Maybe I will hang on to it for a while....
Also, I had passed up a Suburban a couple of weeks back....it was a tank also....but maybe I will check back today and see if it's still there. I think it was priced somewhere like $25 or $35. But I thought that was way too much.
Who are the people buying this stuff?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Keith on 8/29/2002 at 1:50:05 PM
Schwinn will always have a following of folks due to its prominance in the U.S. I suspect people who started with ballooners, middleweights and 'Rays are just working their way up the line and ultimately anything that was actually made in Chicago will be deemed "collectable." I have no problem woith that per se -- after all, they don't make them any more. On the other hand, they were made by the millions, and while NOS may be rare, along with first or second year Varcinentals, the rest are still out there in huge numbers. I wouldn't count on retiring on them. In contrast, the sensibility of lightweight collectors derives, from the most part, from two sources: the history of European road racing, and the 70s bike boom (which continued as something less than a boom into the 80s). The appreciation is for super fine craftsmanship. Aside from the Paramount, and a couple of other examples, that's simply not Schwinn. I'm not disrespecting them, and I own several myself, but I can't get that excited about a mass-produced eletro-forged bike. FWIW my wife prefers her $10 garage sale '72 Suburban to her Miyata Pro.

   Wealthy bike speculators posted by Tom Findley on 8/29/2002 at 2:01:55 PM
I have been looking for a LeTour, and have seen that speculators are running the prices up to about $150 on ebay.
This is too much money, and I won't pay it. When lightweight 10 speeds are still given to Goodwill, there is no point in paying tribute to the hustlers.

What I have found over the past few years is that bike demand is seasonal. Around October 1, a lot of bikes show up on ebay, and the prices drop. So I will wait until then to see what appears, and hope that the speculators move on to Beanie Babies.

   RE:Wealthy bike speculators posted by Tom Findley on 8/29/2002 at 2:08:56 PM
I can't write about the plan for the LeTour, because some people mught faint from ecstacy after reading it.

   RE:RE:Wealthy bike speculators posted by Oscar on 8/29/2002 at 4:26:36 PM
Plop! I faint from the expectation of exstacy. I repainted what I think may be a first-year LeTour. Oh well, it looks better now than it did when I first found it. Bent forks, too.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Eric Amlie on 8/29/2002 at 5:01:03 PM
The only ones that I see that really bring big prices are the near NOS ones like the pristine bikes that Larry Stone puts up on Ebay.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Rob on 8/29/2002 at 6:17:13 PM
I try never to argue with the marketplace...just go with the flow. For any market, if the prices are going up then the questions become, Is this a trend?; "Will the prices stay up, go higher or start sinking?"...those who can figure it out, or are just plain lucky, of course...get rich.

Schwinns, though, do have a certain 'je ne sais quoi'. Where I live, Vancouver, Schwinns are not unusual, but they certainly aren't abundant. I can't spot one at 300 yards as I'm sure some of the people who post to this site can!!

Here's a Schwinn experience I had a couple of months ago in a large thrift store... There was the usual collection of old bikes...mostly department junk. But one old bike, scratched and a bit tired looking caught my eye...it seemed very solid, very well built, and somehow appealing. Through the scratched paint I made out the word, 'Varsity',...and I thought, "...Ahh, a Schwinn"...

THere is definitely something about them that is appealing...even if they might be 'tanks.' ;)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Ray on 8/29/2002 at 8:18:21 PM
I agree that trying to figure out the auction market is like trying to figure out the stock market. On the positive side you have the mystique of the Schwinn name, a clean bike, nice color of mid to late 70s vintage. Like most of you I could pick these up for next to nothing in the recent past. Lately I see these things being snapped up by every swinging richard because they are Schwinn bikes and nothing else. All the non collector market knows is that Schwinn went out of business so they speculate that the price will only increase. The buyers are going through a similar emotional event. Anyone on this page would never dream of paying more than $25 for that Continental that sold for $150 but the new owner I am sure does not know what we do. I am partial to unusual lightweight bikes and have started a good collection that spans the early days through the 80s. I have a first year suicide shift Schwinn Continental and Varsity in fantastic condition. I purchased these because of their historic importance and the unusual drive trains with the TDF pull chain rear derailleurs. I also have a 71 Schwinn Sports Tourer that was one model down from the Paramount in its time. Again an unusual bike, how many of you even have heard of this one. The average Joe could not tell my bikes from any other Schwinn lightweight if their life depended on it. They will pay for a bike that was like the one they had as a kid. Don't try to figure it out just enjoy what you have and keep the hobby alive.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Freddie on 9/4/2002 at 6:53:26 PM
I buy and sell a lot of older but better bikes and go through about 70 bikes a year. Schwinns Sell!!!!This past weekend I picked up a nice ladies world and a mens travler for $15 for both. Later modles with round headbadge and sold both for $65 the next day. Last year I found the nicest varsity I have ever seen. Mint. Even still had the nubbies on the tires and that pice of clear plastic clips on the dropout armto protect from chain slap. I over priced it because I would have liked to have kept it but it sold for $100 A near mint typhoon sold in 2 days for $150.forget about keeping a stingray in stock for long. the balloon bike market is soft. Nobody seams to have heard of colson or monark so these grand old tank bikes sit and everybody want to know how much for the phantom?I will never get rich at this but I buy almost every old schwinn I can Yesterday I sold a very rusty and poor con. varsity for 15. rotton tires, wrong seat and almost unreadable decals.People love the schwinn name.Now if I can just get rid of ths speedester.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   eBay bike prices are going CRAZY! posted by Freddie on 9/4/2002 at 6:54:00 PM
I buy and sell a lot of older but better bikes and go through about 70 bikes a year. Schwinns Sell!!!!This past weekend I picked up a nice ladies world and a mens travler for $15 for both. Later modles with round headbadge and sold both for $65 the next day. Last year I found the nicest varsity I have ever seen. Mint. Even still had the nubbies on the tires and that pice of clear plastic clips on the dropout armto protect from chain slap. I over priced it because I would have liked to have kept it but it sold for $100 A near mint typhoon sold in 2 days for $150.forget about keeping a stingray in stock for long. the balloon bike market is soft. Nobody seams to have heard of colson or monark so these grand old tank bikes sit and everybody want to know how much for the phantom?I will never get rich at this but I buy almost every old schwinn I can Yesterday I sold a very rusty and poor con. varsity for 15. rotton tires, wrong seat and almost unreadable decals.People love the schwinn name.Now if I can just get rid of ths speedester.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vista Siver Shadow posted by: peter on 8/29/2002 at 4:13:19 AM
I got here through a google search whilr trying to find out something about a Vista Silver Shadow 10 speed bike I saw listed in the local pennysaver. Never heard of it, but one google response showed someone mentioning one was for sale on ebay for those interested, which made me think that there must be some reason for it being worth mentioning. This site that we're at now, is a really nice site. I feel like I've stumbled into someone else's rec room. Thanks in advance if someone knows of this bicycle.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vista Siver Shadow posted by Gralyn on 8/30/2002 at 3:24:02 PM
I hate that you haven't received any replies on your bike - Unfortunately, I have never heard of this one - so I don't have a clue. It may be a Japanese built bike from the 70's or 80's - it seems there were many different names put on the Japanese bikes.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vista Siver Shadow posted by Oscar on 8/30/2002 at 3:43:31 PM
I think Vista made department store bikes that were modelled after Varsities and other Schwinn bikes. Even their headbadges were vertical ovals spelling "VISTA".

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vista Siver Shadow posted by Jay on 9/8/2002 at 4:19:13 PM
Your in luck. I have a Vista silver Shadow 10 speed. I bought it in 1980. It still works fine. It was made in japan. I am even using it in in some short Triathlons. I paid around $200 for it back then. I am thinking of upgrading but since I would want somehing for around $1,500 I have been putting it off. I can't imagine a used Vista would be worth more than $50. Please e-mail me to let me know if you got this and with any questions I might be able to answer. I probably have the old brochure filed somewhere.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Vista Siver Shadow posted by Jay on 9/8/2002 at 4:19:31 PM
Your in luck. I have a Vista silver Shadow 10 speed. I bought it in 1980. It still works fine. It was made in japan. I am even using it in in some short Triathlons. I paid around $200 for it back then. I am thinking of upgrading but since I would want somehing for around $1,500 I have been putting it off. I can't imagine a used Vista would be worth more than $50. Please e-mail me to let me know if you got this and with any questions I might be able to answer. I probably have the old brochure filed somewhere.






AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by: Tim Welsh on 8/28/2002 at 11:39:24 PM
I just love the local 'buy&sell' magazine. There's an older gentleman selling his Super Course, bought in '71. I haven't seen its condition yet, but it sounds like it's decent, never stored outdoors. He wants Cdn $35. I'm going to check it out later this week.

I know that other models were better (Competition, Pro, International), but has the Super Course made 'collectable' status yet? I plan to grab it if it's not too rough either way.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Lenny on 8/30/2002 at 12:53:56 AM
Hello David,

The two Super Courses I own (ca. '73) and SC MK II ('76) both have 26 tpi threads on the BB and headset (I know, because I have worked on them and while I had them disassembled, I measured the threads with a thread gauge). However, it is certainly possible that some were put together with 24 tpi threading during the early to mid '70s when demand strained (I imagine) Raleigh production. I have a '73 Gran Sport (labelled "Grand Sports") that I am in the process of overhauling. The BB is 24 tpi (with a Nervar-branded axle), not the 26 tpi I expected. I haven't taken the headset apart yet, so I don't know about its threading.

I believe that in the late '70s, Raleigh reintroduced the Super Course model; it had a shorter wheelbase than either the original Super Course or that of the SC MK II (1/2 inch shorter than the original SC). Perhaps the late model SC had the 24 tpi threads by then?

While my Gran Sport has a lovely, comfortable ride, it is a bit of a tank handling-wise (no doubt it would be wonderfully stable with panniers). I think the early SC and the SC Mk II are just the perfect balance between comfort and responsive handling. I have ridden a lot of bikes, and they are still my absolute favorite (and as been mentioned here often, still possible to get at a reasonable price).

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Lenny on 8/30/2002 at 12:54:33 AM
Hello David,

The two Super Courses I own (ca. '73) and SC MK II ('76) both have 26 tpi threads on the BB and headset (I know, because I have worked on them and while I had them disassembled, I measured the threads with a thread gauge). However, it is certainly possible that some were put together with 24 tpi threading during the early to mid '70s when demand strained (I imagine) Raleigh production. I have a '73 Gran Sport (labelled "Grand Sports") that I am in the process of overhauling. The BB is 24 tpi (with a Nervar-branded axle), not the 26 tpi I expected. I haven't taken the headset apart yet, so I don't know about its threading.

I believe that in the late '70s, Raleigh reintroduced the Super Course model; it had a shorter wheelbase than either the original Super Course or that of the SC MK II (1/2 inch shorter than the original SC). Perhaps the late model SC had the 24 tpi threads by then?

While my Gran Sport has a lovely, comfortable ride, it is a bit of a tank handling-wise (no doubt it would be wonderfully stable with panniers). I think the early SC and the SC Mk II are just the perfect balance between comfort and responsive handling. I have ridden a lot of bikes, and they are still my absolute favorite (and as been mentioned here often, still possible to get at a reasonable price).

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by smg on 8/30/2002 at 3:13:17 PM
Yes, there were 24 TPI Super Courses. Both of mine (the '73 and maybe '75 Mk II mentioned elsewhere) have the standard British-thread bottom bracket. Perhaps this reflects the S.C.'s anomalous position in the line - marking the point of transition from proprietary Raleigh to Continental "name" components. Or simply dealing with a component shortage of the moment.

Incidentally, my Super Courses differ in frame geometry. Both are 20.5" c-c. The '73 has chain stays of about 17.75" flattened/dimpled for the chain rings and a top tube of 22", while the '75 (?)Mk. II has a 22.5" top tube and 17.25" chain stays which are entirely round and necked down where they come out of the bottom bracket. Wonder what they were thinking of, and why?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Rob on 8/29/2002 at 1:11:26 AM
Hey...sounds interesting. I'm currently commuting on my '73 or '74 Super Course, and I sure like it, nice light feel very comfortable and very smooth. It's the bronze green colour, SunTour V-GT luxe rear derailleur, I forget the front one...SunTour or Shimano, alloy crankset...SR, I think with Motobecane stamped on the arms, 170mm, but looks to be from the mid '70's, six gear freewheel. The handlebars, stem, brakes all look original. Mavic rims, Shimano front hub, Suzue rear..both hi-flange.

The'71 might be the anniversary edition...oval headbadge, likely steel Nervar crank with cotters, Weinmann brakes, rims...I'm not sure, could be pretty basic, 5-speed freewheel, might be French...Atom, Maillard?? But the main tubes will be Reynolds 531 single guage.

Let me know what happens...if you don't want it and it's not too far away,(I live in Vancouver), and it's my size...53-56cm, I might be interested...$35CDN is almost a give away....

   Raleigh Super Course posted by John E on 8/29/2002 at 1:47:48 AM
For commuting or general transportation, I would not mind having a Super Course. It is definitely worth upgrading from the original Simplex or Huret derailleurs and Nervar steel cranks. The frame is a bit heavy by today's standards, but at least most of the threads and diameters are ISO standard, unlike my all-metric French and Austrian framesets.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Lenny on 8/29/2002 at 5:45:43 PM
At the risk of joing the "me too" chorus, I also think very highly of the Raleigh Super Course (and of the SC Mark II). I stil ride the SC Mk II I bought 25 years ago.

If you do get this bike, I recommend cleaning and regreasing all of the bearings ASAP. You will want to preserve those 26 threads per inch headset and bottom-bracket cups, because they are getting extremely difficult to find N.O.S. They will last a long time if you maintain them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by smg on 8/29/2002 at 7:38:04 PM
The Super Course so far seems to be overlooked by collectors--all to the good, because they're a very enjoyable ride, comparatively easy to find and reasonably priced. Cdn$35 sounds very good--I have a ca. '73 that came with somewhat scrambled components at $60 and a ca. '75 frame that was $42 on eBay.

I often wonder about how many of the various Carlton/Raleighs of the early '70 were sold. Internationals and Competitions seem to show up frequently, but the Gran Sport (which I want!) seems to be fairly rare. Anybody have any ideas?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by David on 8/29/2002 at 8:28:17 PM
Doesn't the SC have standard threading (NOT Raleigh 26tpi)?

Also, I suspect that Raleigh offered too much choice in lw bikes in the 70s; there's just not that much distinguishing the International, Comp, and GS. Anyone springing for the GS would probably have had a big enough budget to escape the Simplex der and get the Comp instead.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Pete on 9/1/2002 at 5:14:45 PM
I have a '77 SuperCourse which has English threading, and a '78 Super Grand Prix which has Raleigh thread.
The SuperCourse has 531 main tubes.
Has anyone seen a Raleigh with 531 tubing and Raleigh spec threading on bottom bracket and headset?
How about Lenton's, what threading on those?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course posted by Heath on 9/7/2002 at 4:38:11 AM
Yesterday, I purchased a Raleigh 10-speed Super Course at a thrift shop for $9.95 U.S. The bike is in great condition, looking to have been used very little. In an effort to find out more about the bike, I ran across your discussion. My bike is green with gold accents. It has a Brooks B15 saddle. Based on excellent condition, if the saddle is original, then the bike has hardly been used at all. It has decals which read Carlton Race Proved. The rubber boots over the brake levers are also marked Carlton. The tires appear original (marked: Raleigh Racing), The only damage is a cracked rear rim. The rims and brakes are Weinmann. The cranks are steel, made by STRONGLIGHT. Derailers are SIMPLEX. Dropouts are chrome-plated. Rear dropout has what appears to be a SER# 333659. Can anyone help me to identify the year model of this Super Course? Any other information regarding my bike would of help and I would be grateful.

Heath






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Eisentraut Limited posted by: Richard Bonn on 8/28/2002 at 7:38:35 PM
I just purchased an Albert Eisentraut Limited frame. It has a small dent on the top tube, but the paint is orginal and except for a few nicks looks pretty good.

Does anyone know what year's Albert made these frames. Were they sold built up by Albert or as frames only? If built up what kind of components did they tend to have. THis one has an early Dura Ace crank and front deraileur, CAMpy headest (I think NR) Campy BB and Campy brakes.

Does Albert repaint his old frames and does he still have the decals? How about Joe Bell or Brian Bayliss? Has anyone had any luck in repairing a small dent and only painting that area? IF so who did the job?

How is the quality of these frames....it looks like very good craftmanship. The price was right.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Eisentraut Limited posted by John S on 8/30/2002 at 6:49:10 AM
The Limited was a semi-production model by Eisentrout. He was mainly a custom builder. I believe he is still in business in Oakland CA and may be able to help you. Even though semi-production, ones I've seen are top quality.






AGE / VALUE:   Every time trial bike owned by Ian Cammish, UK posted by: Mark Stuttgen on 8/28/2002 at 1:03:54 PM
This message was posted yesterday, 8/27, on the English Roadsters page. I added it to this category because it fits better. There are no replies as of this posting.

I have a 61cm time trial frame owned and raced by Ian Cammish in the early 1980s. I acquired it from Moon's bike shop in Newmarket, Suffolk, UK, in late 1983. The decals on the seat tube and down tubes read EVERY. I am assuming this is a custom made frame. If anyone can tell me more about Every, I'd appreciate it. As I am interested in selling the frame, I'd also like help in determining its value. It is in very good condition.

Mark Stuttgen
Martinsville, IN, USA







AGE / VALUE:   Carlton Cycles/Raleigh Record Ace made Worksop posted by: Joanne Stuttgen on 8/28/2002 at 12:56:40 PM
NOTE: This discussion was begun yesterday, 8/27, on the English Roadsters page. I added it in the Vintage Lightweights category because it seems to fit better. Please see the initial replies on the other page.

Photo links:

http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh1.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh3.jpg
http://www.reliable-net.net/'stuttgen/raleigh4.jpg

I have a 51cm Record Ace road frameset that I bought in Antwerp, Belgium, in July 1982. I was told at the time that it had been in the Raleigh warehouse for many years. In what looks like hand-lettering is this information on the front of the seat tube: Craftsman built by Carlton Cycles Worksop England. In the same shadowed lettering on the top tube, it reads Record Ace. A metal Raleigh badge on the front of the head tube reads Birmingham. The color of the frame is an unusual robin egg blue. It has yellowed with age. QUESTIONS: How old is this frame? Was it made by Carlton before Raleigh acquired it in 1960? Is this frame desired by collectors? What is the approximate value? It is scratched, yellowed, and has a ding on the top tube from the handlebars. The "decals" are in very good condition. Please advise!

Joanne Stuttgen
Martinsville, IN, USA








AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by: Bob on 8/28/2002 at 4:18:17 AM
Today I saw a 12-speed French Motobecane lightweight roadbike with Suntour derailler and rims made in Belgium. Paint in excellent condition, bike looks well cared for, nice Motobecane head-tube badge, lightweight pedals, good drop bars. The two shifters are mounted on the down tube. I would estimate that this bike dates from the 1970s. Can anyone tell me about the value and quality of these bikes? Are parts still available? How good was France's Motobecane line? Does anyone on this board own and ride one of these?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by Walter on 8/30/2002 at 12:45:15 AM
My first "real" bike and only the second brand new bike I had ever owned was a Moto Nomade, ca. 1977-78. Beautiful bike, not just to my very biased eyes but to most others as well. Light blue metal flake paint with dark blue decals including the "Made in France" one in script. Cotterless crank with proprietary arms and steel rings. Steel Rigida rims and centerpulls, badged as Motos. Over the next few years I replaced the Rigidas with cheap but durable Asian alloy wheelset and traded the Huret rear der. for a first generation SunTour Superbe and the stem shifters became ST barcons. I loved that bike and will forever have a softspot for original Motos thugh I now ride Italian.

   Motobecane posted by Elvis on 8/28/2002 at 4:38:14 AM
Hi. I have a motobecane 'Jubilee Sport" from the 1980's. A little newer, but same company. It has suntour downtube shifters too. The thing was so light it could zip up hills like no one's business, even though it was steel. I used to have a 1970's motobecane... It was a little too big for me but very well made.
Like most big companies, I assume thewy made some low-end bikes too. But most of the Motobecanes I've seen have been well made, durable, and fun to ride. I don't believe there's a terrible value for them, but they're definately worth keeping for their ride.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by MWM on 8/28/2002 at 1:09:48 PM
I've owned several of these bikes. The ones from the 70's were absolutely wonderful and I wish I still had them. I had a Mirage with a Simplex RD (1972?) and a Jubilee with SunTour (1975?). Lightweight and very high quality. Beautiful paint finishes were accented by fine gold pinstripes and subtle script lettering "made in france" along with the model name. I also owned a Super Mirage from the 80's that wasn't nearly as nicely finished - had a molded plastic logo affixed to the top tube. I may be wrong here but I thought they had some re-organization of their company in the early 80's. The bikes I've seen since that era aren't nearly as beautiful.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by Gralyn on 8/28/2002 at 3:18:31 PM
I have a Motobecane Nomade (the bottom of the line) but it's still a decent bike, actually really good. The paint on the top tube is a little faded - but otherwise - it looks really good. It's probably a 70's model. I recently picked up a Mirage. It has SunTour eqipment, Nervar or Nervex cranks (cottered), Pivo stem, I believe, cheap-looking crappy plastic saddle, the bars look as though they are steel. The Mirage is a step up from the Nomade - but this one's not much of a step up....other than SunTour deurs and shifters....everything else seems about the same.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by Keith on 8/28/2002 at 6:34:57 PM
I have a 1975 Moto Grand Record. It has Nervex lugs, and Campy NR. The ride is comfortable but reasonably responsive, owing to a middling geometry. FWIW it tracks like its on rails. The workmanship is better than some other big-name makers, such as Raleigh and Peugeot. classicrendezvous.com has some nice photos of Motobecanes. As I recall at least some fairly big names in thye peloton rode Motos in the 50s and 60s. The company still exists under the MBK marque, and one major French team was riding them in recent years -- can't remember which -- but they were actually re-branded Lightspeeds. If you need parts this discussion group would be a good starting place, as well as eBay. There are some shops that specialize in vintage components -- bicycleclassics and reniassancecycles (?) but you'll pay the full price. The least expensive and probably the most fun way to get parts is at garage sales, thrift stores, the curb on trash day, and old bike shops. You may have to buy complete bikes, but you can build up a pretty good stock of the solid mid-range stuff like Suntour in no time at all.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by Fred A on 8/28/2002 at 8:10:47 PM
I have a 1980 Motobecane Le Champion 12 speed, FULL CAMPY, and it rides like a dream. Better than a PX-10 and PKN that I also have. Like slicing through butter with a warm knife!

I got the Motobecane at a garage sale two years ago from the original owner. The bike is in excellent condition and was even my frame size (25"). The best part? He sold it to me for $25!!!!!!! This is one bike that's never going to leave my house.........

Fred A

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970s-era French Motobecane posted by Fred on 8/28/2002 at 8:44:34 PM
Like Gralyn, I also have a Motobecane Nomade. The bike is much to large for me at 25 1/2 inches but it rides like a dream. The first time I rode it, it felt like I had ridden it forever. I would love to have one of the higher end models in a smaller size.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by: Don H on 8/28/2002 at 2:54:12 AM
Can anybody enlighten me on details of my just acquired Specialized "Expedition" model touring bike. I'm guessing early 80's from the 6 speed freewheel. It has a triple crank & Cantilever brakes with nifty ribbed aluminum brake pad backsides: front derailler is a Suntour "Mountech"; rear derailler just says Shimano with an etched elk or deer head emblem. Wheelset looks brand new, probably add ons: front is "Super Champion" silver alloy, rear is Mavic MA40 with the black anodized? finish, tires are brand new Kenda 700x25 (inexpensive but no wear). Overall looks like 9.5 on scale of 10. Appears It was almost never ridden (something I aim to correct). I haven't been able to find much on the net.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by Bob Hufford on 8/28/2002 at 3:55:31 AM
Don,

Nice find! Do a search here and you will kick up some info. I have the same (or similar) bike that is from 1983. The ribbed (Matthauser?) brake pad holders are add-ons, the Shimano Deore rear derailleur is a replacement for the original SunTour Mountech. Super Champion rims are correct and the hubs should be sealed Specialized (Sanshin/Sunshine). The original tires were Specialized Expeditions (of course). I think that Miyata made the frames for Specialized and the Expedition, the Miyata 1000 and Trek 720 were the top-end production touring bikes of the era. I can send you a scan of an advertisment from '83 if you'd like.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by Don on 8/30/2002 at 3:34:44 AM
Keith:
I have several VGT & I rode by my LBS to ask their thoughts on a change. The kid mechanic lubed up the shimano & adjusted it perfectly in about 1 1/2 minutes. This bike is very stable on descents & I like the non-flashy metallic grey, will ride it for a while as it is...setup with skinny tires, no fenders or racks, just a great warm weather commuter.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by Skip Echert on 8/28/2002 at 5:16:27 AM
Hello Don -
The Specialized Expedition of your bike's vintage is highly prized by touring bike aficionados. Great find!
Skip

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by Don H on 8/28/2002 at 1:48:36 PM
Thanks for the info:I took it on a long ride last evening & the Shimano rear derailler has trouble finding the big cog, couldn't adjust it out further: will keep looking for the correct part or replace with something that works & begin collecting fenders, racks etc. DonH

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by Don H on 8/28/2002 at 1:51:52 PM
Would appreciate the scan, I really like the bike, very smooth ride.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by Keith on 8/28/2002 at 6:41:51 PM
I think there's something in the Dancing Chain book where Berto says some of the 80s Suntour models had pivot seal problems, and this could account for the Shimano on the back, which might not be rated for the range on this bike. There some nice wide-range derailleurs available new, like a long cage 105 or a Deore. There are nice vintage ones out there too, but you'll have to look for them -- Huret Duopar, Suntour VGT, Campy Ralley, etc.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Specialized Expedition touring posted by keith on 9/3/2002 at 2:49:59 PM
I replied to Don about my love for this bike. Yes the rear der had a clever articulating pivot at the upper pivot. It sort of 'stretched' so the cage could be shorter, for better shifting. The upper pulley wore out quickly cos it was not on a bearing, but hmmm....I would compare it to the label on a soup can rotating about the can. eventually the side play increases and the shifts were awful. The downtube shift levers were synchronized so that there was a small movement of the front der when you shifted...no chain rub ever! Also they came with a special 40 hole Super Champion rear, tough to find a replacement. I had mine for eighteen years and 35,000 miles, dont know how anybody could damage such a bulletproof wheel, maybe they were trying to lose some of the weight??

PS mine was stolen so if anyone sees one for sale id like to replace it. get a hold of me vn80pl8@aol.com thanx






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   RRA on Roadster area posted by: David on 8/28/2002 at 2:49:25 AM
Someone who knows about Raleigh and Carlton could be very useful. Check the recent posts about a Worksop Carlton Record Ace.







AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate Sport posted by: swaczy on 8/27/2002 at 5:19:45 PM
Would anyone know what a 1974 Schwinn Collegiate Sport 5 speed bike in very good condition is worth? I am moving soon and will sell it (and two other older bikes.) I don't know if these have any interest to collectors, but I thought I should ask. Thanks for any help.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate Sport posted by Tom Findley on 8/29/2002 at 11:37:39 AM
If it's rideable, it's worth $25. If it need new tires and tubes, deduct the cost from $25. You may end up with a negative number. People give the bikes to Goodwill.