OldRoads.com

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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by: Misc on 5/8/2003 at 1:43:42 PM
Why does oldroads sell on ebay?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3607639510&category=7298



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Dave on 5/8/2003 at 2:46:44 PM
Good question. This bicycle has the exact same components as my Coppi , I would be very interested in knowing what year this bike was built, (the Coppi has a Pat.81 rear deraillier but I'm sure it was added later).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Stacey on 5/8/2003 at 5:29:23 PM
Gee 'Misc', why does anyone sell on eBay? To liquidate goods and/or services in exchange for capital. Or, to get rid of stuff and turn it in to money, if you like.

It's no secret that Vin & Co are eBay vendors... with a bike like this what better place to offer it?!?!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Tom on 5/8/2003 at 5:55:35 PM
Well, this Raleigh certainly has me confused! Most of it screams mid to late 70's as the as states, but there are exceptions and I question its being all original. Avocet introduced their saddles in 1977 and they were aftermarket items at that time. Those appear to be 70's TA Pro cranks, not Campagnolo as stated (and which was usually standard on this model). I don't remember Modolo prior to the 80's. Finally, I thought Campagnolo introduced it's rims around 1990? Nothing seems to add up! Is my mind playing tricks on me again? Help me out guys, I need to know if I'm going senile!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Dave on 5/8/2003 at 7:54:59 PM
No, your not! My Coppi has NR Gran Sport cranks,(3 pin like the TA's),NR Gran Sport front derallier, NR Pat.81 rear derailler,NR SS Bottom Bracket,(113mm spindle),braze-on cable guides only at the bottom bracket shell & chainstay otherwise clamp on DT shifters and rear brake guides,NR brakes,Cinelli 1A stem and Criterium/Track type handlebar,Campy NR hubs and Omega sewup rims.The prior owner only had the bike for 4 years so the prior history is unknown.A friend in my bicycle club has the same model of Raleigh that is for sale , he had the frame built up in 1981 thru a bike shop and was not well off so he had the bike built up piece by piece when he could afford it.Looks like the Coppi went thru the same process.I had the bike re-decaled and painted,can't wait to re-assemble and ride it!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Tom on 5/9/2003 at 12:39:48 AM
Dave, I agree, it sounds like the '81 NR derailleur may be a later addition, though if a manufacturer upgrades anything on a bike to market it, it is always the rear derailleur! Sounds like new rims too. Based on the frame description, it 70's or maybe earlier. Shift lever bosses appeared about 1975 and were commonplace on all the upper end Italian equipment by the 80's. However, the equipment indicates it may be a mid-level frame. Have you done the standard assessments to determine the frame quality?

1. Are there reinforcing tangs at the brake bridge & chain stay bridge mounts?

2. Are there stiffening tangs brazed to the inside of the fork leg?

3. When you look into the bottom bracket, are the ends of the tubes mitred (i.e. they are not cut off square, but follow the curve of the bottom shell to provide maximum surface area for brazing)?

4. When you look into the bottom end of the fork column, are there helical ribs? In the 70's only Columbus tubing had this feature.

5. Are the dropouts forged and if so, who is the manufacturer?

6. Are there any cutouts in the lugwork or bottom bracket shell?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Dave on 5/9/2003 at 1:29:33 PM
Ok, the answers:1)yes;2)Yes;3)I'll check;4)The repainter has handled other Coppi's,they replaced the original Columbus decal with a new one;5)Campy dropouts;6)The top tube has heart-shaped cutouts on chromed lugs,(very nice).Thanks for all the assistance!The prior owner thought this was a mid-level frame.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   they sell on ebay? posted by Tom on 5/9/2003 at 5:49:15 PM
Your frame has all the nice, time-consuming (and expensive) features that manufacturers don't lavish on anyrthing but the top frame. The aluminum, three arm, Gran Sport cranks were introduced in 1974. Timewise, this aligns nicely with the lack of brazed-on shift lever bosses. Consequently, my best guess is a mid 70's frame, assuming the cranks are original.

Perhaps, the original owner was wise enough to put the majority of his money into a top line frame and had to resort to some mid-line components with the rest of his budget? That might also explain later upgrading, such as the '81 patent NR derailleur.

Another check I forgot to mention is to remove a hub locknut and inspect it's back side. There should be a stamped "CAM" and two digit year code. If it's 70's or earlier, I'd guess that as being the year of frame manufacture, or maybe one year earlier. If it's 80's, it's probably an upgrade. Let me know what you find.

Regardless, it sounds like you have a real winner! Congratulations!






MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Tourtist posted by: Drew on 5/8/2003 at 12:10:56 AM
Wanted to know the years made and which Japanese company made these for Schwinn? Sugino chainring & crank arms, Altus derailers, alloy upright bars, Bluemels fenders.


   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Tourtist posted by JONathan on 5/8/2003 at 3:31:32 AM
I would say; "PANASONIC" is the most likely builder of the Le Tour. I have a '74 Le Tour II that's Panasonic-built frame. A nice ride. Has cheap handlebars and gaspipe heavy frame, but well constructed. All that "Schwinn Approved" labelling on components is kind of a joke. To me, it's the same as the brand that built the component under its OWN name...I'd ride it, enjoy....JONathan

   RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Tourtist posted by JONathan on 5/8/2003 at 6:18:39 AM
The panasonic serial numbers are ###-### #. The last digit is (0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9) and is the year. So ###-### 9 would be 1979. The Le Tour II is 1977, not '74.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Tourtist posted by JONathan on 5/8/2003 at 4:24:00 PM
I have a Schwinn that's built by Merida. It's a '80's "Traveler" with sugino. Maybe it's a Merida, which is also Japanese. I don't know of any others.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Schwinn Le Tour Tourtist posted by JONathan on 5/9/2003 at 3:49:04 AM
If the SN starts with "M" it's most likely a Merida-built.






AGE / VALUE:   Chicago Schwinn posted by: Shelley Parker on 5/7/2003 at 11:54:05 PM
I have an older Chicago Schwinn female bike. It has 26x1 3/4 size tires but I can't seem to find a serial number on it to tell me how old it is. It also says its a Schwinn Hollywood and is the color purple. Can you give me any help on this? Thanks


   Frame location of Schwinn serial numbers posted by Tom Findley on 5/8/2003 at 10:51:45 AM
http://www.bunchobikes.com/serialnumber.htm






AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by: Gralyn on 5/7/2003 at 6:11:02 PM
OK, I picked up an Azuki (like a Nishiki clone) mostly because I didn't have on - and had never heard of it...and the price was irresistable. Well, today I spotted a Royce Union 10 speed. Made in Japan. I searched the archives - but it looks like the messages had to do with a Made in Italy frame....from the 60's. Well, this looks like a 70's bike. 4 reasons I picked it up:
1) I didn't have a Royce Union
2) The frame has no braze-ons
3) It has bolt-on, or with a band, down-tube shifters
4) The price was good.

It has shimano components - no Sun Tour. Shimano Tourney center-pull brakes. It has Shimano levers (the ones with the extra levers for riding the top of the bars). It has the common steel cottered cranks you see on a lot of these old Japanese bikes. It's white, and the decals on it still look pretty good. It looks like the finish will clean up and polish up pretty well. Steel rims - which may clean up OK. The front wheel has quick release (the old-timey kind....the big winged nuts).

Anyone have one of these? Or know anything about them?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by Dave on 5/7/2003 at 9:18:58 PM
I have heard of this brand,it was sold in some department store(s),(maybe Venture?) as well as some bike shops,low end of the price scale.It survived into the 1980's.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by Gralyn on 5/8/2003 at 11:52:54 AM
I think this bike will clean up pretty well. I didn't think it was all that heavy - until I hung it up in the workshop. It's pretty heavy....not quite a Varsity....but still heavy. The saddle looks like your typical lightweight bike saddle - except that it has springs on it. It also has they Japanese black vinyl.....with the diamond pattern....I think the same vinyl is in my '72 and '74 Datsun Z-cars.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by Dave on 5/8/2003 at 2:31:45 PM
My first 10-speed had a saddle like that, and simular components.It was a white German build "Standard" which my father purchased at a gas station.It had a bit of rust from sitting outside for several months.I would guess it was a vintage of '72 or '73.The first time I rode the bike I waved at a attractive girl in the neighborhood,and I was too close to the intersection and locked up the front brake,going over the top of the handlebars.She got a good laugh at my expense,and I was picking gravel out of my left hand for a few weeks.Those old Weinmann center-pulls were great stoppers!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by JONathan on 5/8/2003 at 4:31:12 PM
Good luck trying to locate Royce Union. They may have built bicycles a long time back. I seem to think "Huffy" connection and Royce Union. England had a Royce company (tires?), but I got no where there. I conjecture that Royce Union was a marketing name for any bikes from anywhere. There seems to be a Japanese connection, Italian and German/Austrian from all that I can gather.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by steve on 5/8/2003 at 5:39:43 PM
Have a look at Sheldon Brown's essay on Japanese bikes. A brand called "Royce Union" might have been among the first Japanese import bikes. Historically important, albeit humble in quality.






AGE / VALUE:   Dumpster Diving posted by: andym on 5/7/2003 at 12:27:45 PM
Last weekend I cleaned out my shed of unwanted bike stuff,crappy parts,cheap frames,steel wheels and stuff like that.This stuff filled a medium sized dumpster past half full,even I was amazed! Someone came by the next day and rummaged through all the other garbage and took all the parts,except for a handlebar and a front wheel.I wonder what he/she is gonna do with all that stuff? I hope they build something with it,and ride it past the house. Maybe they'll make a fortune from it on ebay! Hey, it was'nt one of you guys,was it???


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dumpster Diving posted by Gralyn on 5/7/2003 at 1:00:38 PM
It wasn't me. I still haven't got up the nerve to do dumpster diving.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dumpster Diving posted by Dave on 5/7/2003 at 1:33:22 PM
Where is the dumpster?

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dumpster Diving posted by Clyde on 5/9/2003 at 11:24:38 AM
Maybe they were welding artists, like the ones at the recent Jazz Fest were sculptures were constructed of discarded bike and motorcycle parts along with tools or found objects. One figure had wrenches for arm and leg bones, motorcyle gas tank for chest, deraileur parts for hips - get the picture? Just wish I had the imagination to assembly my junk parts into something cool.






AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by: Joe Taylor on 5/7/2003 at 6:22:38 AM
Thought some of you could help me out. I don't know much about the old Schwinns. I recently traded for a Schwinn bike in pretty good shape. The owner said he was told it was a Majestic but it is a racing style with stem mounted shifters. The serial number appears to be SO812188 but the first three (letters/numbers) are worn from the rear axle nut and washer. The hubs, brakes, and crankset are stamped Schwinn approved. The rear derailleur is a Shimano 400ff. The frame is a Schwinn Super Sport S/N K606020. It's a little rusty but it was free. Any info on model of the complete bike or age of both would be helpful. The complete bike could use paint but I want to know what model it is first. The owner gave me a new set of Varsity decals with it.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by Ricky on 5/7/2003 at 10:50:23 PM
Number one: Do not put varsity decals on this bike! This would be roughly equivalent to putting Chevette badges on a Camaro. The Super Sport is a pretty decent bike and is built by a different process than the much heavier and cheaper Varsitys and continentals. The frame is "Fillet-Brazed", which is important. These bikes are slightly more desirable than the Varsity/continentals and much less desirable than the much more expensive Paramounts. If you are looking to build a rider, this could be a good choice. These bikes are as sturdy as the varsity and nearly as light as the Paramount, so its a good compromise. If you're thinking of restoring for a profit, dont bother...it'll never get huge money. Unfortunately, they hardly sell for more than a Varsity...most folks have never heard of 'em.
If willing to restore just because its interesting, go for it. If you just want to get rid of it, email me.
Theres info here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_e-f.html#fillet

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by DannyJoe on 5/8/2003 at 8:50:28 PM
After reading this post yesterday about the slightly more desirable Super Sport, I only wished I would run across something other than a Varsity, today it happened. A nice orange garage kept Super Sport with a Brooks B15 saddle, great paint and only needing a good cleaning, I will have to replace the tire's. It has a 2.7 Schwinn centerpull rear brake and a Schwinn approved brake on the front, Weinmann rims. How do I determine the year of my Super Sport? I noticed a letter MH6****?, the rest I can't make out, on the front of the headtube, is this my serial no. ? A very exciting find for me in the seemingly land of Varsity's.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by DannyJoe on 5/8/2003 at 9:12:47 PM
I believe my Super Sport was built in Dec. '72.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by Dennis on 5/9/2003 at 3:22:11 AM

I recently picked up a '64 Super Sport for 7$. At sometime in it's life someone cut off the derailer hanger. Now it has a Suntour VGT Luxe rd with a adaptor claw. That's a bummer because i have a pet peeve against adaptor claws. I haven't ridden it yet because it needs some work. The handlebars are only 37mm wide. That is practically kid-sized. On the handlebars is written "Sport" in script on each side of the stem. And on the stem it says Super, So it reads "Sport Super Sport" when the bars are in place. I think it would be about 28lbs with alloy wheels. I could also replace the steel stem and steel bars but then it wouldn't have that cool "SportSuperSport" script on it. What derailer did this come with?
ok then,
Dennis

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by Dave on 5/9/2003 at 1:41:16 PM
Dennis, I have a '64 Varsity I bought off Ebay from a guy who's Dad worked for Schwinn.This bike has Suntour Sprint front derailler,Suntour Honor rear,Weinmann sidepull alloy brakes,1" chrome fork?,(very odd).With Schwinn rack,waterbottle cages,(attached with hose clamps)and alloy 700c alloy QR wheels it weighs in @28lbs.I also added a Brooks leather saddle and alloy MTB pedals to the original cranks.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by DannyJoe on 5/9/2003 at 4:10:53 PM
After a little elbow greasing my '72 Super Sport turned out better than expected, it looks super! I removed some foam wrap which was placed on the top tube (safty reasons) and the paint was flawless as is the rest of the paint. The light surface rust was easily removed and I've now added the best looking bike to my young collection. I bought the bike at an estate auction where it stood next to a Coast King women's single speed from the '70's. The auctioneer called the bid on choice of the two bicycle's, a lady in the crowd wanted the coast king and I wanted the Schwinn. So we bid against each other on different bike's, this is a practice of auction's I see often. I won the bidding of the mind's and picked up my Super Sport for $10, she won the bidding on the Coast King and got it for $1.50 (only bidder). Ten dollar's was still a good price for the S.S. as it cleaned up to be my best '70's 10spd, but a $1.50 would have been a great price.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by Ricky on 5/11/2003 at 2:02:16 PM
Addendum: After re-reading the original post and my initial reply, I see that I skipped something. My first reply here was referring to the Super Sport which was the bare frame of the original message; I didn't address the "Majestic" issue. There's a good reason for this...I have no idea what a majestic might be as I have never heard of one. If you could post a link to a picture, perhaps more could be leaned.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Older Schwinns-1 Complete, 1 Frame posted by Joe Taylor on 5/27/2003 at 8:21:37 AM
On this website, I posted pictures of the bike I am trying to identify.
http://my.name-services.com/25503/
or
http://www.joes-bugs.com

Thanks in advance for any info you can provide.






FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by: Mike Patterson on 5/6/2003 at 11:35:53 PM
SPRING CLEANING
1)Carleton Criterium-700c wheels, friction shift 6x2, some decal damage, paint fair
2)Velosport Jocelyn Lovell Special Edition- 27" wheels, needs seat and pedals.
3)Nishiki Continental Touring bike-Drilled chain rings,6x3 friction gearing, pannier mounts, good shape.

Pictures available on request, also various Peugeot and Raleigh parts.


   RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 12:07:22 AM
I am looking for a long shot part. I have a Peugeot UO-18 which is now complete with all original (I use a SunTour der., but have the Simplex in a box) including Nervar steel cranks. The bike is equiped with a lighting system that is complete except for...and here's the kicker; a lens for the tail-light. The reflector is OK, but the lens is missing from the lightbulb. The bike is early '60's...I could use that part. I may have to mold one if I can't locate a lens. It may be a standard lens for rear lights of that time period...Thanks, JONathan

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by Oscar on 5/7/2003 at 2:26:41 AM
What is the make of the light?

   RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 4:54:01 AM
Hi, Oscar. The can says; "SOUBITEZ", it's a small bugger, but puts out 3Watts@6Vdc. The front light has a rectagular lens with an amber bulb. It mounts on the top of the front fender by a screw and nut. The housing has a single screw holding the aluminum cover in place. The rear is a plate that is attched to the rear fender. There is a reflector on the lower part and a lightbulb on the upper part of the plate. There is what looks like a screw hole for attaching the lens. The lens fits against the plate creating a watertight seal. The lens is the only part missing. Even has the splatter guard on the drive wheel. The bike looks very similar to the classicrendevous '50's bike...same color, too. Mine doesn't have chrome on the chain and seat stays, but has it on the lower half of the forks. The badge is a raised metal piece, rather than the flat plate in the pic. Interesting thing on mine is the tiny tabs through which the wiring is roved and crimped. The back rack is mounted to braze-ons on the seatstays. The rack looks like a marmot trap or a Fletscher on steroids. I wouldn't let a kid play with it! The fenders are chromed and shouldered. There are holes for rack braces and fenders front and rear. Just a neat ole putzer rig. Thanks, JONathan

   i'm an itiot posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 5:00:03 AM
That's; rectaNgular lens. "Rectagular" isn't even in Webster's 3rd. New International.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by Joe Taylor on 5/7/2003 at 6:05:42 AM
JONathan,

I'm not real familiar with the old Peugeot bikes but is the UO-18 a touring model? I have an old Peugeot in Texas that has full fenders, a generator, headlight on the front, and a taillight built into the rear fender. Sounds similar to what you are asking about. I will be back in Texas in about 6 weeks and can send you pictures if that will help. I don't want to sell just the lense as the bike is complete including a Peugeot tire pump in the frame mounts. E-mail is joe_taylor@libero.it
Joe

   RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 4:19:27 PM
Thanks, Joe. I see what you are saying about an intact bicycle being bit-pieced apart is loathesome to a vintage fanatic. I guess I'll keep huntin'. That's part of the fun. If desperation overwhelms me, I'd probably have a different viewpoint. Yes, Peugeot made the following models:
1) UO-8. nice riding 10 sp., chrome fork-crown; partial chrome on forks (sometimes on rear triangle); regular mild steel tubes.
2)UO-18. basic UO-8 geometry and tubes, finish, etc. additions are for touring: rack; generator and lights; full fenders; kickstand & bracket and a lot of brazed fittings to support these added features.
3) UE-8. a UO-8 in a mixte frame
4)UE-18. a UO-18 in a mixte frame
5) AO-8. UO-8 without cosmetic detailing of the UO-8.
The "P*##" series were the top line bikes, with the PX-10 being most prevalent out here in Ca. I remember a couple guys who talked pop into a PX-10 at $175+ in '60's gold standard bucks while most had Varsities and (my case) $50 Sears 3 sp. to run against them. I ain't complaining, I made it 40 miles to the beach and back on several occasions on the 3 sp. My close buddy got a PX-10 and he burned through 3 tubulars and had to get a ride home in a truck, while we kept pushing. Decidedly that was operator error on his part. My 3sp. brakes were a terrifying part of the machine, so I never got past 25mph, before checking. You only have to exceed the desing parameter once to get enlightened as to just how crummy they perform.
I have pristine bikes in each of the "U" series and an AO-8 model, with te exception of a UO-18 (mixte touring bike). My latest is the blue UO-18 in question, which is the best preserved. The decals are perfect! Paint is pristine, which strikes me as unusual for a bike (French, no less) that's over 40 years BP. I have an AO-8 from the '70's. Forgive my ramblings. I just love these ole Peugeots...JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by Rob on 5/7/2003 at 6:17:11 PM
Hi JONathan...Your run down on the Peugeots is pretty good. However, just for clarity, and I might be wrong, but I think the touring model of the U0-8 is the UE-8 and the UE-18 is the touring mixte frame. The 8 is the "boy's" bike; the 18 the "girl's", so to speak. I don't know that there is a UO-18...maybe John E. can clarify.

   my big dumb mistake!! posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 6:25:34 PM
Rob, you are correct. I looked at that before post and I knew something was "off", but the more I looked the dumber I seemed to get. That's excatly right. The UE-8 is the touring version of the UO-8. The UE/(O)-18 are the mixte variants. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I tried to be helpful, but only seemed to confuse. Glad someone who knows caught the dumb mistake. So I have the UE-8 that's in need of the tail-light. I've gotten that nomer wrong on several occasions. Just seems to be a tough one for me to keep straight.Thanks, JONathan

   RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by Tom on 5/7/2003 at 8:21:14 PM

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 10:13:35 PM
Tom, those higher-digit bikes you listed are of interest to me, as I would like to more about their characteristics. Seems I have a couple of luggless Peugeots that have decent componentry and integral hanger, but that don't quite fit the mold of the UO-8 classification...as I understand it. Well, I pretty much have a collection in mind that encompasses (or will encompass) a fair representation of pre-bike boom LW's from USA (Schwinn); England (Raleigh); Italy (Bottecchia & Maino); France (Peugeot) and the bike boom Japanese bikes that were (IMHO, arguably) the "peak" of pre-SIS, LW design. I Saw no reason to collect past the friction era. I mean what's the point? I chose, more by happenstance than anything, FUJI and Bridgestone as my reps. from that era. I guess they're the "everyday bikes" that I collect. With maybe one exception. I think they're really cool. I ride SIS all the time, but the vintage LW's are fun and functional, above all else. For Peugeots, I thought a UO-8; UO-18; UE-8 and AO-8 would be a starting line-up. This group is complete, except for restoration details,...like the doggone tail-light lens. Tell me more about those Canadian Peugeots. Frame, components, etc. THANKS A BUNCH, JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by Tom on 5/8/2003 at 5:16:07 PM
JONathan, you and Rob did a nice job covering the basic Sports (**8)and Touring (**18) series. The remaining series are pretty much specialty models. I'll keep the descriptions generic, because specified componentry varied so much from year to year (and even from day to day, depending on availabiliity from the OEM)! I believe that this was pretty much the remainder of the Peugeot lineup during the 70's bike boom.

PA10 - Basic racing bike, mild steel diamond frame, 700C tubular wheels, steel cranks, dropped bars & racing saddle.

PR10 - Mid-line racing bike, Reynolds 531 straight gauge diamond frame, 700C tubualr wheels, aluminum cranks, dropped bars and racing saddle.

PX10 - Professional racing bike, Reynolds 531 double butted diamond frame, 700C wheelset, aluminum cranks, dropped bars and racing saddle. (If the tubing decals have been made illegible by pump clips damage and componentry has been changed, this model is usually distinguishable from the PR-10 by it's chromed stays.)

UJ5: Junior sports bike, mild steel diamond frame, 27" wheels, 5 speed, derailleur, dropped bars and racing saddle.


UJ8/UJ10: Same as UJ5, but 10 speeds.

DA40 - City bike, mild steel "step-through, take apart" frame, 20" wheels, 2 speed coaster hub, upright bars and sprung saddle, chainguard, fenders, carriers, lighting system.

UNS40/NS40 - City bike, mild steel "step-through" frame, 22" wheels, 5 speed, derailleur, upright bars and sprung saddle, chainguard, fenders, carrier.

UP41/PE41: City bike, mild steel diamond frame, 27" wheel, 5 speed, derailleur, uright bars and sprung saddle, chainguard, fenders, carrier

UG45/G45: Children's sports bike, mild steel diamond frame, 24" wheels, 10 speed, derailleur, dropped bars and racing saddle.

UG50/G50 : Children's touring bike, mild steel diamond frame, 24 inch wheels, 3 speed, derailleur, dropped bars and racing saddle, fenders, chainguard, rear carrier and light.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by JONathan on 5/9/2003 at 6:00:58 AM
Thanks for the Peugeot model descriptions. I have a folder from the '60's. No idea of model, but it's got a decal with words; "nouvous" on the seat-tube. Tires are 490mm bead. Lighting set and fenders and a rack are the extras. What to do with the bikes is a big question mark. I know it's a bit eccentric to keep the bikes. I just think they're cool. Thanks for the complete lowdown on Peugeots in N. America. JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Cleaning out the shed posted by Mike Patterson on 5/10/2003 at 3:18:01 AM
Ok, I guess this would be a good time to add two Peugeots to the list of bikes I'm selling (or trading).
4)Peugeot Touring with fenders, lights, generator etc. Front fender damaged AND missing tailight lense.
5)Peugeot "Sprint" in very good shape.






AGE / VALUE:   Another Raleigh Comes My Way posted by: Tim on 5/6/2003 at 9:16:29 PM
Against the back fence of a house two down from my Sister-in-Law, I saw some kind of road bike. I knocked, the owner said I could have it. So I took it, happy to find a Raleigh Lenton Sport in very nice condition.

It's Green and White, with few scratches and little fade. It looks 50's or 60's to me. It has Huret front der & shift levers (back says 'Alvit' - is that also Huret?). Brooks saddle. Steel rims. Orig tires, I think, not very degraded. It's stored at my sister-in-law's, so I haven't had a good chance to look it over. Anyone know when the Lenton Sports was built?

I just seem to keep getting great old Raleigh lightweights. Now all I need is space to open a museum, and enough people willing to pay entry fees so I can retire from my day job. Should be possible :o)


   Huret Allvit posted by John E on 5/6/2003 at 10:26:35 PM
The Brooks saddle and Huret Allvit derailleur say "1960s" to me. According to "The Dancing Chain," the Allvit came out in 1960-61. It should be a decent ride, comparable to a Peugeot UO-8. I believe the Lenton GRAND PRIX had Reynolds 531, which would place it a bit higher on the food chain.

   RE:Huret Allvit posted by Tim on 5/6/2003 at 11:56:43 PM
John. There's no 531 decals on it (or signs of any tubing decals), and it is a bit heavy. Maybe there's straight guage 531 in the main triangle, but I don't think so. The age you indicate sounds right, though. Anyway, it's classy even if low-end.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Another Raleigh Comes My Way posted by Warren on 5/7/2003 at 12:50:17 AM
H Tim...I had one of those Lenton Sports models, mine was gold and white...I think they made them up to the 70's. They were, as you suspect, very much the same tubing as the regular sports models. I think the angles are a "little" steeper than the roadsters. Good candidate for a club type bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Another Raleigh Comes My Way posted by Tom on 5/7/2003 at 1:39:54 AM
Try http://www.retroraleighs.com/ . They have images from several 60's & 70's catalogues. They also have the logic for decoding the Raleigh serial numbers, so you can trace the exact year of manufacture.

FYI, the Allvit derailleur was long lived. It survived well into the 70's. My 1971 CCM Grand Prix came with one and the 1973 Shields catalogue (largest Canadian bicycle & parts distributor)lists them.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Another Raleigh Comes My Way posted by Dave on 5/7/2003 at 1:42:58 PM
FYI- I had a 1980 Varsity with the very last,(I think) attempt at an Alvit rear derailler.I sold the bike,(too small for me) but kept the "Schwinn Approved GT500",(Huret Allvit).It has brass bushings on all the pivot points and works well but can't really go past about a 26 tooth rear cog.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bolt-on Down-tube shifters posted by: Gralyn on 5/6/2003 at 11:58:23 AM
I'm building up an old Itala frame - and I've come to the subject of gearing. I absolutely do NOT want to put stem shifters on it. It has no braze-on for the down tube shifters. It doesn't even have the braze on for the rear deraillieur cable stop. I rummaged through all my parts - and I found only one bolt-on down tube shifter. Only One. Of all the bikes I have - and all I've stripped of parts - I only have one bolt-on down tube shifter. And it is fairly rusted!
I also have an old Lotus, and a Raleigh Technium that I want to convert from stem shifters to down-tube shifters.

Is there a source for these bolt-on down-tube shifters? I know they made quite a few of them - but where can you find them anymore?


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bolt-on Down-tube shifters posted by Dave on 5/6/2003 at 1:33:25 PM
Grayln,Yes try www.firstflightbikes.com under vintage lightweight parts or www.cycleart.com in the store section.Another source might be www.renaissancecycles.com they have a lot of NOS parts.I just saw here on oldroads they have part #Z1HDS simplex alloy shifters for $8.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bolt-on Down-tube shifters posted by Tom on 5/6/2003 at 1:48:48 PM
If you don't something newer and Japanese, my local bike shop has several pair of NOS, band type, Shimano friction shifters for down tubes. If you're interested, let me know and I will obtain model, pics and pricing.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bolt-on Down-tube shifters posted by Keith on 5/6/2003 at 5:49:55 PM
I'd consider barcons as an alternative.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bolt-on Down-tube shifters posted by Gralyn on 5/7/2003 at 2:25:42 AM
Well, I dug around some more - and found another bolt-on down tube shifter set - a Huret. I think that will do for this bike. I will, however, want to get a Japanese one for my Lotus...and maybe for the Raleigh Technium also. (I had to dig through stem shifter, after stem shifter, after stem shifter.......until I found it.)

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Bolt-on Down-tube shifters posted by Oscar on 5/7/2003 at 2:32:32 AM
Gralyn, check in by email. I have a set of Sunour Power Ratchet clamp on downtube shifters for you.






AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn "New World" from '40's posted by: JONathan on 5/6/2003 at 6:01:14 AM
A friend has a '40's Schwinn "new World" 3 sp. lady's frame in #2 condition. I guessed at about $300. Is that high? Thanks, all Schwinn experts...JONathan







AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by: Tim on 5/6/2003 at 12:17:42 AM
Can I use a quick release axle and bearings on a Varsity t
that came off a higher end Schwinn?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by John on 5/6/2003 at 12:39:30 AM
Good question Tim. I'd like to know the answer too. I have a couple varisties with rust bucket wheels, and a couple of sets of alloys that came off of a sprint and a LeTour. John

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by Oscar on 5/6/2003 at 2:58:39 AM
The best parts of Varsities were the hubs. They were always aluminum. The earlier ones were French, the later ones were Japanese. They were among the few "standard" size parts that Varsities used.

   RE:  Quick release posted by Eric Amlie on 5/6/2003 at 3:47:50 AM
The only two considerations I can think of are 1. Is the axle small enough in diameter to slide into the dropouts, and 2. Is the axle length and spacing correct for your Varsity. I think all the Varsities were 10 speeds so your rear dropout spacing should be 120 mm. If you have wheels from a 6 speed rear (126mm spacing) you could get a new 5 speed axle from your local bike shop to replace it with. I've got a bunch of wheel sets from early seventies Super Sports that I've been thinking of using on my sixties vintage Varsities. Haven't actually done it yet so I'm not sure about that axle diameter issue. I'll bet it will work though.

   RE:RE:  Quick release posted by JONathan on 5/6/2003 at 4:53:31 AM
Only hang-up I see is you may need a spacer for clearance for a 6 sp. cluster to not have the top gear chew on the chainstay. The six speed clusters are a bit deeper than a 5 speed cluster. I'm just speculating, here. I have had problems of clearance when I changed axles on MTB's. I'm just thinking of the radial angle of the chainstay (BB to dropout) being narrower with a 5 sp. cluster. I recommend a solid axle for the rear wheel for added strength and I don't want any stupid QR letting go of the wheel just when I'm punching it. just my 2c'c. By all means, go QR on the front. I mean, if your riding a bike like the Varsity, what's a "dogbone" gonna do to your payload? You won't even notice. You will notice a wheel sliding up in the dropout!...JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:  Quick release posted by JONathan on 5/6/2003 at 5:42:35 AM
I just looked at my '77 "Varsity", which I changed the rear wheel to a Normandy high-flange alloy hub that works great, but with a 5 sp. cluster. Looks like a 6 could fit. I measured 120mm across dropouts. Erik, it is standard, at least on a '77. I have a '68 that's in a shed that's being guarded by possums and raccoons at the moment, but I would guess it's 120mm too. The largest cog that can work with mine is a 28 tooth. That's a der. problem. Long shot guess...it'll work...JONathan.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:  Quick release posted by JONathan on 5/6/2003 at 5:59:55 AM
Just checked. A Normandy hf with QR will definitely work. I checked my UO-8 that is on my workbench. The rim is Rigida (steel), but alloy rims have to be the same size. So all you need is a Normandy alloy hub with QR and alloy rim. Not a big problem. The 6 sp. could be a sweat...JONathan

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by Tim on 5/6/2003 at 12:51:29 PM
Thanks for all the help I just want the QR on the front for ease of transport
Thanks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by TOM on 5/6/2003 at 1:39:33 PM
I’m not too conversant about Schwinns, as we don’t see many up here, in Canada. There are over a dozen different thread standards for axles, so without knowing the thread standard, it’s hard to say how easy it will be. It would be a lot easier to swap complete wheels than convert the axles. However, I have swapped out solid axles for hollow versions on several bikes and can warn you of the various pitfalls and what you need to know. The process is the same for all brands of hubs, front, or rear.

AXLE THREAD: Ideally, you want to use your old cones and hardware on a new, hollow axle. This may, or may not be possible. Most solid axles have either a different thread diameter or thread pitch from hollow axles. The exception seems to be some rear Japanese axles which both use 10mm x 1.0 mm (diameter x thread pitch), Campagnolo rear axles which are 10 mm x 26 TPI (threads per inch) and Campagnolo front axles at 9mm x 26 TPI. If you can use your old cones and hardware, you’re over half the way there, and can skip directly to the paragraph on axle length.

HUB AND CONE DIMENSIONS: If you can’t use your existing hardware, you need to take a few measurements with the existing axle in the hub. Measure the over locknut dimension (i.e. measure from the outside edge of one locknut to the outside edge of the other locknut ). Measure the locknut protrusion ( i.e. how far the outside edges of the locknuts protrude from the hub dust caps). Also measure the thickness of your dropouts. Now disassemble your hub and measure your cones. Critical dimensions are the diameter at the base of bearing race (i.e. the curved surface where the bearings ride), the outside diameter, and the length.

RACE DIAMETER: The most critical task is to find hollow axle cones with a race diameter that matches your old solid axle cones. Find a set of cones where the diameter at the base of the bearing race match closely. Now determine if the balls are riding properly on the cones bearing race. Coat the cone with grease, insert the cone into the hub and turn it on the bearings. Next, carefully remove the cone. You should be able to observe a thin line on the cone that has been wiped clear of grease. This is where the bearings are riding on the cone. It should be about half way up the cone’s curved surface . If it is at the top, it will not carry the vertical loads properly, and may result in premature cone wear and axle failure. If it’s at the bottom, it will not carry the lateral loads properly. Again, this may cause premature cone wear and the wheel may have side to side play, even with properly adjusted cones.

CONE OUTSIDE DIAMETER: Here, it’s better to go slightly smaller than larger. If it’s too large, the cone will rub on the hub’s dust cap. Of course, you can enlarge the hole of the dust cap if you want to. If it’s too small, it’s easy for dirt to enter, however this is an easy fix. Visit your hardware store and find a rubber o-ring that you can stretch over the cone and push up against the dust cap, to seal the opening. A little grease on the o-ring before mounting aids the seal. Wipe the excess grease off afterwards. (I use this trick on all my vintage hubs and bottom bracket which do not have factory rubber seals. It provides good sealing with minimal rotational drag.)

CONE LENGTH AND OVER LOCKNUT DIMENSION: Next you’ll have to match the dimension over the outside edge of the locknuts with your solid axle setup. This is affected by the cone length and again it’s better to go undersize on the length. If the over locknut dimension is too small, simply add washers/spacers as necessary. If you can’t get it exact, it just means that the wheel may not insert and remove easily. If it’s too wide, you may have to spread the stays while inserting the wheel. If it’s too narrow, you may have to back off and re-tightening the adjustable nut on the quick release skewer each time you insert the wheel. Try to maintain the same left and ride side LOCKNUT PROTRUSION as close as possible to the original set-up, to avoid disturbing the font to rear wheel tracking

AXLE LENGTH: This should be the equal to, or 1millimetre smaller than the dimension over the locknut outer edges plus the thickness of both dropouts. If the axle tips protrude beyond the dropouts, the quick release will not clamp the dropouts. Don’t go too short, or there may not be enough axle length to properly support the dropout. This may be a problem with the thinner section of stamped dropouts. Yes, you can shorten axles to length, however if you do, cut the axle using an old locknut as a guide. Space the locknut to the point you want cut, using washers. The locknut will aid in cutting a square end and then, when you turn the locknut off the axle, it will clean up the burrs.

QUICK RELEASE SKEWERS: If you’ve had to shorten an axle significantly, you may also want to shorten the quick release skewer. A skewer tip that protrudes beyond the adjustable locking nut can be quite painful, if you catch yourself on it.

DROPOUT SLOT WIDTH: Theoretically, a dropout slot for a particular solid axle could be too narrow for a hollow axle. I have not run into this and it would probably only occur with stamped dropouts. Of course, if this occurs you could file or cut a wider slot.

I hope this helps.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by Dave on 5/6/2003 at 1:43:38 PM
Johnathan, I have a QR new wheel on my commuter Varsity for ease of flat tire replacement. It has a 5speed cluster and I cut about 3mm off both ends of the 130mm axle with a dremel tool.I still have to spread the dropout ends out a bit to get the wheel into the dropouts and I have a washer on the left side to compensate for the thin dropouts but it works fine.It was worth the extra effort because the new wheels probably shaved 4 or 5 pounds off the stock ones.

     Quick release posted by John E on 5/6/2003 at 3:15:51 PM
I strongly recommend upgrading Varsities to QR hubs and aluminum rims; this is by far the most significant of several improvements you can make. I had no trouble fitting my 1974 with a 6-speed freewheel; since the original wheel had a 5-speed freewheel with an outside chainguard and a big chrome spoke protector, the width between the dropouts may have already been closer to 126mm than 120mm. My litany of changes: 1) Araya aluminum rims; 2) Sunshine QR hubs; 3) 6-speed 14-28 freewheel; 4) downtube SunTour shift levers (with a fat shim under the clamp!); 5) remove kickstand; 6) remove suicide brake levers; 7) KoolStop brake pads; 8) Serfas ARC saddle; 9) Pletscher "mousetrap" rear rack; 10) aluminum handlebar; 11) toeclips. Had I kept the bike, I probably would have gone for the 3-piece crank BB conversion kit, Stronglight, Nervar, or Sugino cotterless cranks, Japanese road quill pedals, and an aluminum stem, as well.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by Tim on 5/7/2003 at 3:42:59 PM
Bad news guys it wouldn`t work the axle is a little short,but no big deal.
all cleaned up ready to ride I do need decals for it but it`s a 79 and can`t seem to find the right ones
Thanks again ...Tim

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Quick release posted by JONathan on 5/7/2003 at 6:17:18 PM
Hmmm. Tim, you got me interested enough to try on my '77. I have a solid axle from a standard Normandy hf hub. They must have different takes on the rear traingles. Very interesting. Do you know any artists? I was thinking about having a friend paint a decal on my '77. Don't laugh, if they can paint motorcycle gas tanks to look like a million bucks, a bike decal is a warmup!...JONathan






AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by: Bryant on 5/5/2003 at 10:28:26 AM
Saw this one today on E-bay. NMA, although I wish it was. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2172301554&category=420. I didn't pay this much for my car, and there is 6 days left in the auction. Sorry but I don't get it, I must be missing something.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by andym on 5/5/2003 at 12:41:45 PM
Check out what the high bidder has bought off of ebay just in the last month. This person has some serious bucks to spend on bike parts(the high bidder being evergreenhs2)

Think twice about throwing anything away!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by Gralyn on 5/5/2003 at 3:52:53 PM
Yes, I have several of those ders. - still in the box!
No, just kidding! It just blows my mind!

    Simplex Derailleur posted by John E on 5/5/2003 at 5:58:29 PM
To me, the most interesting question is the relationship between condition (NOS, gently used, rusty, worn, shot) and price. This auction does appear to break new pricing ground for NOS Simplex components.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by JONathan on 5/6/2003 at 2:45:30 AM
Doo-ditty-doo-dah...I'm rumaging threw my boxes as we speak!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by Tom on 5/6/2003 at 2:02:24 PM
If we pool our resources and can find 350 souls willing to put up $10.00 each, we may be able prevent this guy from hoarding another piece of the good stuff. Well, I can dream, can't I? Just imagine what his bicycle room must look like!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by steve on 5/6/2003 at 3:16:56 PM
The vision thatcomes to mind is of several gun safes filled with derailleurs, cranks, brakes, etc. - tastefully displayed on red velvet cushions. . .

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by Chris on 5/6/2003 at 6:29:00 PM
I prefer on the marble window sills on the sunny side of the house so everything shimmers in the morning when the sun comes up. However, red velvet sounds nice.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Simplex Derailleur posted by Jimbo Jones on 5/8/2003 at 8:18:20 AM
Zowie ! What history this thing must have. I wouldn't spend that much if Jesus himself rode in on it.






AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by: John on 5/5/2003 at 1:47:49 AM
Just picked up a 1977 Varsity Camelback today. Does anybody know the purpose of this camelback geometry?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by JONathan on 5/5/2003 at 5:30:32 AM
A curved top-tube is weaker than is a straight top-tube. So my wild guess is that they (marketing floor) wanted a curved top-tube to satisfy some preconceived esthetic and yet have it be strong enough to withstand strains that a regular frame (st. top-tube) could easily take in stride (roll?)...ergo the two curved top-tubes. This design tapped onto the mechanical strength inherent to a "box-section" (a geometry with very high polar moment of inertia), except it didn't form a true box-section, lacking straight sides. This was, of course, at the expense of the rider to compensate for the additional mass in the frame by having to pedal harder than would otherwise be necessary with a straight top-tube. IMHO, it was/is a "looks' rather than functional attribute, and therefore inconsistent with the spirit of lightweight designs. Just my 2c's...JONathan

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by lumpen@gtcinternet.com on 5/5/2003 at 2:01:53 PM
Although the term "lightweight design" is a bit of a stretch when it comes to "Varsinentals".However, a Varsinental will outlast quite a few true lightweights.I rode my commuter Varsity at a fairly hilly ride in Indiana this weekend,(the Gran Prix had a flat),and I had the chain run into the spokes,went over the top,(I'm OK) and put all my weight into the fronf wheel.The wheel was toast,but the bike itself was fine.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by JONathan on 5/5/2003 at 7:23:37 PM
Yes, indeed. "Lightweight" and "Varsity" are rarely used in the same sentence...an oxymoron perhaps. I have two ('68 & '77), one as a ride and the other as a museum piece. The '68 is beautiful with all the decals intact and paint is new looking. The '77 is a solid rider. I feel fearless on the road. As heavy as the bikes are, they conform beautifully to the LW design in their geometry (double triangle) with superb joinery, albeit mechanically derived in production. A beautiful example of quality construction that's not labor intensive. If you get alloy wheels and replace the crankset with a modern system; ditch the kickstand, you can have something that approaches the upper limit of what is lightweight which to about 30 pounds, without peripherals. To me "function" determines "structure" and true functionality is remarkably esthetic...JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback,back to your question posted by sam on 5/5/2003 at 8:18:22 PM
This design dates back to the teens.At that time almost all bikes were sold with 28" single tube tires and a very large diamond frame.To make the bikes easer for kids(and short adults) to ride they curved the top tube down at the seat post--this is your camelback bike ,those with two top bars are the early motobike style.This curve is repeated in canterlevered frames to drop the seat hight too---sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by Warren on 5/6/2003 at 2:43:52 AM
As Sam says...it allowed shorter riders mount bigger bikes. I just bought a pre-war CCM with double camelback top tubes. 28" westwood rims with painted centre line and pinstripes. Heavy as hell but a majestic ride.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by JONathan on 5/6/2003 at 2:55:29 AM
Yes, gentlemen. And to our right is a "mixte" frame with 27 inch wheels that top out halfway up the head-tube. I can't see where a "mixte" is referred to as "girls'" frame. They are as tough as diamond frames. I know, because I run a Peugeot UE-8 (mixte) as a dirt rider sometimes. They climb real good with the low center of gravity. I think the double top-tube "camelbacks" (how does it resemble a camel?) are a good way to break a leg, if you ask me. I had one as a kid. You are correct, they'll get you in shape. Be the first on your block to legpress 400#...JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Why camelback posted by Tom on 5/7/2003 at 2:12:26 AM
JONathan, just hypothesizing - the curved top tubes are sort of humped and there are two of them. What has two humps? A camel!

I agree JONATHON, the mixte was great for climbing. The back end was very stiff, due to the extra set of stays. Sort of the 70's version of "compact" frames.

I'm not very up on Schwinn Camebacks, but do twin top tubes continue to become the seat stays? If so, this would be significantly cheaper to manufacture than separate seat stays and a top tube. This may be another reason behind the design. Cheaper to manufacture, low stand-over height and aesthetically unique - sounds very marketable.

Frankly, I'm surprised somebody hasn't marketed a 4 tube bike. Theoretically, you could bend two long continous stays that form a double top tube, seat stays, chain stays and twin down tubes. All you would have to do is tack on a seat tube with bottom bracket, head tube and rear stays. Wrapping the twin stays under the bottom bracket, in combination with the triangulation of the twin down tubes should provide an incredibly stiff bottom bracket. I've seen twin down tubes on Colnagos and others. The continous seat & chain stays are quite common on BMX style bikes. Has anybody put it all together, or am I off in left field again?






MISC:   Question posted by: Michael T. on 5/5/2003 at 1:06:51 AM
I saw this item on Ebay today: 3606666871

It is a Fuji lightweight. What is interesting is, the guy claims this bike is a 1994 model. It sure looks JUST like my Fuji Royale II that has been estimated as somewhere between 1979 and 1983 model. What do you guys think?


   RE:MISC:   Question posted by Warren on 5/5/2003 at 1:49:16 AM
Looks like late 70's/early 80's to me...no braze-on cable guides, Suntour parts...maybe he mean't 84. No way it's mid 90's.

Ask him the question if you're registered.

   RE:MISC:   Question posted by andym on 5/5/2003 at 3:31:23 AM
Definitely late 70's. The guy might have bought it used in 94'. I don't think the guy knows a whole lot about bicycles from his description.

   vintage posted by John E on 5/5/2003 at 5:52:37 PM
Because of the centerpull brakes and 6-speed freewheel, I concur with the late 1970s estimate.

With the accumulated knowledge base of the forum regulars, I think we should be able to come up with a list of "default" equipment change dates, to help anyone estimate the approximate age of any particular bicycle:
1) the change from 5- to 6-speed freewheels;
2) the change from 6- to 7-speed freewheels;
3) the change from freewheels to freehubs;
4) on high-end bikes, the change from centerpulls to sidepulls;
5) the change to aerodynamic brake cabling;
6) on high-end bikes, the change from steel cottered to aluminum cotterless cranks;
7) on low-end bikes, the change from steel cottered to aluminum cotterless cranks;
8) the change from friction to indexed shifting;
9) on high-end bikes, the change from downtube to brake handle shifting






AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course MKII posted by: Mike Slater on 5/4/2003 at 12:35:22 AM
I have a beautiful 1974 Raleigh Super Course MKII in original condition that I am interested in selling. I was thinking of doing the e-bay thing, but it seems like quite a hassle. So I'll offer it up to folks here first.

The bike is 23 c-c, red/white paint with only 2 very small scratchs- otherwise perfect, chrome great, decals fair - the small band decals that cover the white/red color change need replacing. Bike is clean and ready to go. The original Raleigh tires have seen better days - not worn just old.

I have e-photos for anyone that is interested - contact me offline. Would like to get $200.