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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sportif posted by: Gralyn on 7/21/2003 at 11:45:30 PM
Does anyone know where in the Raleigh line - a Sportif would be? I found one today. I think it has 502 tubing (maybe a Chro-Mo). Alloy wheels, stem, QR front only, side-pull raleigh brakes, safety levers, alloy cranks - but the chainring looks to be a stamped steel job. Sun Tour. It has that foam rubber grip stuff....but only a 5-speed rear. (I kind of think that there were a lot of 5-speed clusters left over from the 70's - that ended up on lower-end bikes in the 80's). Well, if anyone has any information on this bike - please let me know. It seems to be pretty decent, fairly light, and will clean up nicely.







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Carlton Professional posted by: Mike on 7/21/2003 at 4:37:28 PM
Hello,

I have what I think is a Carlton Professional bike that I am looking for more information on. I got the bike new when I was living in Africa in I think 1975 or so. My dad bought it for me in Sheffield in the UK which is not far from Worksop where my bike was made. Here is the description of the bike: Baby blue colour with white bands on each of the 3 tubes each with a decal. Down tube (from seat to bottom bracket)chrome decal with Carlton, red white and blue bands where white paint and blue paint meet. Also has a red,white,blue semi circle around "Carlton". Top of this tube has 531 decal - "531" in green and says butted tubes, forks and stays.

The tube from bottom bracket to headset has Carlton in white section. This is painted in red with black outline again with red,white,blue bands at either end. Top tube has "TI" decal in blue circle with red,white,blue bands at either side. Badge on front says Carlton Cycles - has man on a bike in yellow jersey. Forks are chromed about 2/3rds up with triangular 531 decal at top. Very top of forks chromes. All Campag ends. Lugs very fancy with cutout and red trim paint. Number on bottom bracket is A55 65. Has a space between the numbers. Weinman 999 center pulls, Zeus Criteriun (Sp?), Campag shifters, Brooks Pro saddle, Super Champion Medaille D'or rims with decals, Campag Record hubs, Sugino Mighty Competition crank, Cinelli bars, Cinelli stem, Pedals? Lambert toe clips, TDC block (I think it is TDC - 3 letters like that).
I have owned the bike since new and it is in totally immaculate original condition. Only the tires, handle bar tape, brake handle covers and toe straps have been replaced.
Any information greatly appreciated! Take NOSPAM out of email address to contact me.
Thanks,
Mike.


      Carlton Professional posted by John E on 7/21/2003 at 7:35:46 PM
Nice bike!!!!!!

Try this link:

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British/Carltonmain.htm

According to it, the Carlton Pro is virtually identical to the Raleigh Pro, even though they were marketed separately into the 1970s.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1983 Raleigh Team Replica posted by: Geoff on 7/21/2003 at 3:10:02 PM
Hi

I have an old Raleigh team replica built in 1983 with Reynolds 531 Tubing and Campagnolo Groupset.

I have the original receipt and the all the certificates to prove it was hand built by a member of the Team Raleigh Special Products Division, I also have the quality checklist before it left the factory.

It's in the team colours of red (with black and yellow Raleigh Logo) This is the bike that dominated the Tour De France in the early 80's.

The bike is truly in mint condition, as good as the day it left the factory (apart from some scratches on the front brake lever)

Do any of you out there have any idea how much I could get for this bike.

Thanks in advance

Geoff







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by: Joe on 7/21/2003 at 5:02:05 AM
Hi,
This weekend I found a bike at a yard sale that I have never heard of, it's headbadge and downtube read Jacques Anquetil. It says made in France and is quite light for a steel frame bike. (I weighed the bike on a shipping scale and it weighs just over 24 pounds as it sits now). The model is "Type Tour de France" (on the top tube in script). It has Mafac Racer brakes, Simplex gear changers, and steel 3 piece cottered cranks. The cranks have no name visible but are quite light duty looking. They are virtually half the diameter of a standard set of Nervars. I am assuming the bike was named after a French racer since there is a photo of him on the seat tube. The lug work is sort of fancy, but they do not look like the comon Nervar lugs. The front fork is chrome tipped with a chome crown, the saddle is an Ideal with an alluminum frame. The wheel set is a pair of Mavic Championat du Monde tubulars in pretty rough shape. (I will most likely run a set of Rigida 1320 clinchers if I decide to make it into a rider). It's wheel base is exeptionaly short, the rear tire is less than 6 mm from the seat tube with the tire pumped up.
There is no sign of any decals stating tubing type. I was wondering if it might be some sort of Chromoly or just thin steel? The bike is much lighter than my Raleigh Super Course. The bars and stem are both aluminum AVA, the hubs are Normandy Luxe with the red stripe.
Does anyone know any thing about these bikes or even when they were produced? (I am guessing early to mid-70's by the equipment).
Thanks,
Joe


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by Corey on 7/21/2003 at 8:17:07 AM
Hi Joe,
Uh, you do know who Jacques Anquetil was, right? Five time
winner of the Tour de France, and the first to do so, in
'57, '61, '62, '63, and '64. In fact, Lance Armstrong just
passed by one the 51 days Anquetil was in the Yellow
Jersey.

Seriously, I don't have an an expert opinion on the bike,
but just by the sound of it, if it was me, I would
leave it in original condition, with at most a new set
of sew-ups, but I could be wrong. Maybe it's just an in-
expensive frame, just trading on Anquetil's name. But it
doesn't sound like it. Anybody else know for sure?
Have Fun!
Corey
Corey

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by Gralyn on 7/21/2003 at 1:07:35 PM
From what you are describing....and it weighs approx. 25 lbs.....I would think you are onto something here. Keep everything original at least until you confirm exactly what it is.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by Tom on 7/21/2003 at 4:29:15 PM
Joe, you have a very nice find. During the bike boom I worked in shop that carried Gitane. I recall the sales rep telling me that the Anquetil bikes were made by Gitane. Now, I don't know if that was just sales talk or fact, but it did make sense as Anquetil was sponsored by Gitane for much of his career (he also used Helyett and La Perle bicycles). It seemed logical that he would maintain his relationship with the company and have them manufacture his bicycles.

If this is true, the weight and component mix for your bicycle very similar to an early 70's Gitane Interclub. The only exception is the aluminum railed Ideale saddle. In fact, it's probable that it's an Interclub with Anquetil decals. If so, the frame is seamless, lightweight steel with Bocama lugs.

      Jacques Anquetil Bike posted by John E on 7/21/2003 at 4:59:52 PM
I recall seeing a few J.A. bikes of varying price and quality levels and concur with most of the responses above. If they are not Gitanes, they are certainly comparable. Your particular specimen sounds like the early 1970s Peugeot PA-10, which was basically a UO-8, but with tubulars and an integral derailleur hanger. Bianchi made similar bikes in the 1960s, but most of the American buyers who wanted tubulars were buying higher-end bikes, with d.b. CrMo or 531 frames.

   RE:   Jacques Anquetil Bike posted by Gralyn on 7/21/2003 at 5:32:53 PM
If this bike is like a U-08 with tubulars......and weighs 25 lbs? I would think it has to be above that.

      Jacques Anquetil Bike posted by John E on 7/21/2003 at 7:30:49 PM
Since a stock 54cm UO-8 with steel rigida rims and 27 x 1-1/4" Hutchinson tyres weighs only 28 lbs, 26 lb with tubulars is certainly possible. The J.A. in question may have some variety of Reynolds 531 or Vitus tubing, but I would have expected at least the remnant of a sticker.

      Jacques Anquetil Bike posted by John E on 7/21/2003 at 7:31:16 PM
Since a stock 54cm UO-8 with steel rigida rims and 27 x 1-1/4" Hutchinson tyres weighs only 28 lbs, 26 lb with tubulars is certainly possible. The J.A. in question may have some variety of Reynolds 531 or Vitus tubing, but I would have expected at least the remnant of a sticker.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by Tom on 7/21/2003 at 7:46:12 PM
John E. is correct. The Peugeot equivalent during the bike boom would be the PA-10 and the weight was about 25 lb. The tubular tires, aluminum rims and close ratio freewheel saves about 3 lbs weight. These models were aimed at the entry level or "club" racer as they used to be called and were only about $25.00 more than the comparable clincher models. Other popular club racers at this time were the Mericier LeMans Club, Bianchi Record 71, Chiorda 030 and Raleigh Super Course TT. However, the three French models were predominant in our region as the Italian bikes used the inferior Campagnolo Valentino derailleurs and the Raleigh was a couple pounds heavier. Of course of didn't hurt that the French makes were putting in respectable performances in the big races.

But if you had the money, as John E. states, you bought something with double butted tubing, preferably manufactured in Italy.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by Tom on 7/21/2003 at 7:56:41 PM
Given the exetreme competitive market at the time, none of the French club racers used a "stickered" tubeset. These only started creeping in at the next price level, along with the cotterless cranksets. For this reason, I believe the J.A. is probably a just a lightweight steel, nothing special. However, the fact that it's a J.A. and not another Gitane/Peugeot/Mercier gives it an collectibility edge.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Jacques Anquetil Bike ? posted by Joe on 7/25/2003 at 5:40:20 AM
Hi,
Thanks for all of the info, it sounds like I may have a keeper in this one. I did consider the posibility of the lugs being Bocama's, since they are close to those of a Raleigh that I know used Bocama lugs. Does anyone know any way of daing a J.A. bike? Several of the lugs have a 9 60 stamp on them, but this seams to early for the style and components present.
Thanks,
Joe






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Technium posted by: Oscar on 7/21/2003 at 3:31:56 AM
I have a wreck of a Raleigh Technium. The sticker says its main tubes are 6016 (?) T6 aluminum. Does anyone know what the fork is made of? Cromoly or gaspipe? Thanks.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Technium posted by Gralyn on 7/21/2003 at 1:11:37 PM
You know - I have 2 of them. One is in excellent condition (it's actually listed on e-bay right now) and I have another with scratches and paint chips. They each have the frame as you describe......but having 2 of them....and going over every detail cleaning, polishing, etc.....I couldn't tell you what the fork is made of. I will check this evening and see if there is any detail, or information on one of mine as to the fork material. It' can't be aluminum....I'm betting it's Chro-Mo.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Technium posted by Oscar on 7/21/2003 at 2:57:50 PM
The fork has a sloping lugged crown fork. That rules out aluminum. The rest of the frame is toast, but I'm interested in the fork. Even if not cromo, I can pretend it is!

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Technium posted by Tom on 7/22/2003 at 12:05:20 PM
Oscar, the fork material depends on the model number. The lower end Technium's used used hi-tensile steelfork blades, while the upper end models used Cr-Mo blades in the forks. It seems strange to use the terms lower and upper end with Techniums, when the whole concept was an inexpensive aluminum frame and even then, it was only partially aluminum!






MISC:   Bottecchia Information posted by: Edgardo López on 7/21/2003 at 1:58:02 AM
I have bought one old Bottechia, and I want to get information about that bikes if anybody knows where I can corroborate about old models, mine says Campione del Mondo 1966. If anybody knows something about these bikes or where in Internet I can found something please mail me or post it in here
Thank you Edgardo


   RE:MISC:   Bottecchia Information posted by Joe Taylor on 7/23/2003 at 11:56:17 PM
Bottecchia is an Italian manufacturer that I believe is located outside the city of Vittorio Veneto. Their web site is www.bottecchia.com. They manufacture a large line of road, mountain and comfort bikes and sponsor a local team in that area of Italy. I purchased an older model NOS from a bike shop while in Italy a couple of years ago. It had been hanging on the shop wall for several years and some of the components had been swapped out to complete repairs on customers' bikes. I was able to get the shop owner to replace most of the components with original equipment pieces. He even built me a new set of tubular rims, but could not find an original set of Campy hubs so I had to settle for Miche hubs for now. It is a really nice bike. Many of the Bottecchia racing bikes were made to fit the customer's measurements. Once in a while an ordered bike didn't get picked up for some reason and the shop owner would often sell it at a discount so as not to take a big loss. I had a friend pick up a nice Pinarello at the factory showroom that way. He just lucked out that the person who originally placed the order was his size. Ireally do miss living in Italy and hunting the smaller bike shops. Bottecchias are normally well made and enjoyable riders.






MISC:   need help setting up bar-end shifters posted by: Jim on 7/20/2003 at 9:21:45 PM
I just got a pair of bar-end shifters and I am going to set them up. I have always used down-tube or STI shifters. I am using them with aero levers. My question is: how do I route the cable housing to where the barrel adjusters are on the downtube? Do I have the cable come out where the brake cables come out? Somewhere in the middle. Any info will help. A picture would be awsome. Thanks....Jim


    bar-end shifters posted by John E on 7/21/2003 at 12:17:18 AM
I wrap my tape from the end of the bar upward. (I know, this is highly controversial!) I let the cable housing emerge on the inside of each bar, about halfway up the flat bottom section, i.e., about 5 cm from the end. I made the cables long enough to curve as far forward as the brake handles, which allows me to route them over my old-fashioned cylindrical Bellwether handlebar bag. I hope this helps.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Bottecchia posted by: David Chapman on 7/20/2003 at 8:47:49 PM
Jonathon,
Thanks for your help, and were 28inch Wheels standard on the bottecchia. I have 27inch?


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 7/21/2003 at 9:00:52 AM
The 27's are/were standard. They were on it when I bought the bike. Mine has so much room under the forks and stays that I think it is a mutant bike. JONathan

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 7/21/2003 at 7:51:32 PM
A bit confused, I am. Seems that tires marked; "28x1 1/4-1 3/8" are on rims that are not bigger than the 27 inchers! Also, the max. air is 60 psi, which seems strange. I wonder about tire sizing spec.s being standard. How could a 28 inch be the same as a 27 inch, unless the standards were different. I know that some roadsters had 28 inch wheels. I think the 700c size will fit the Bot. with the long-reach Weinmann "Vainqueur" cp brakes set to maximum throw...although the braking may be compromised for the advantages of tire selection using the 700c rims. The Bottecchias imported in the '60's seem to have 27 inch rims, as were the Peugeots. These would be the in the lower-end bikes, I presume. My Roold is 700c, which is consistent with a road-racer set-up....JONathan

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Bottecchia posted by Tom on 7/21/2003 at 8:22:57 PM
JONathan, there are two different diameters of 28" rims, one with a 635mm bead seat diameter and the other with a 622 mm bead seat diameter. For comparison, rims with a 27" designation have a 630mm bead seat diameter and 700C rims hace a 622mm bead seat diameter. The 28" wheels with a 622mm diameter are interchangable with tubular wheels and 700C clincher wheels. They are what we used as commuting wheels on our racers, before 700C clinchers were introduced. The 28"/622mm bead seat diameter tires are easy to spot as they generally have a triple digit designation (i.e. 28 x 1-5/8 x 1-3/8). Depending on the age, in addition to the normal size markings, the tires and rims may have an ISO designation, format XX-YYY, where XX= tire section width (mm) or rim width between flanges (mm) and YYY = bead seat diameter (mm). Finding the ISO designation is the best way to ensure compatibility.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1964 Bottecchia posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 12:10:52 AM
Thanks, Tom. If I understand the descriptions, there are two "28 inch" wheels. I guess I have the ISO; 622 diameter 28 inch wheels. Here, I thought they were actually 28 inch wheels; that is to say, I thought they were 1/2 inch larger in diameter than the 27 inch wheels. Just when it looks like I have it figured out, too. Hey, I have to thank you a lot. My level of comprehension of all that is "bicycle" has been increased tremendously as a direct credit to you. The "standard" for meqasurement is the "XX-YYY" ISO in "mm" units, regardless of what the "inch" or any other descriptor indicates. Got it. Thanks, JONathan

   tyre dimensions posted by John E on 7/22/2003 at 1:46:44 PM
Yes, non-square, high aspect ratio tyre dimensions were popular in the early 1960s. My 1962 Bianchi Corsa came with 26" x 1-3/8" x 1-1/4" Pirelli Stellas, which used the same rims as standard English 3-speed 26" x 1-3/8" tyres, while providing a narrower road contact point and somewhat higher maximum allowable pressure, for higher performance. Most of today's tyres have square cross-sections, with comparable sidewall heights and widths. In response to an entirely different set of cornering challenges, modern automotive tyres have moved toward progressively lower aspect ratios. The only low aspect ratio bicycle tyre I recall seeing was the early 1970s Michelan Elan, which was arguably the first high-performance clincher which could challenge the supremacy of tubulars.

   RE:tyre dimensions posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 6:31:13 PM
Thanks, John E. I have learned much from your incredible, and generous, wealth of knowledge and wisdom.
As I understand it, then the "28 x 1 1/4=1 3/8" tires that are on my ERTO 17-622 rims are "high aspect" tires.
This observeably is the case.
Very interesting development that appeared in the '60's.
Just so I can understand the terminology; the "low aspect" refers to a smaller "rim width/tire height" ratio? And, vice versa?...
Or/(and) the "high aspect" tires are angularly displaced above the rim surface...
like; \-/ ?
Thanks, JONathan

   rim width/tire height ratio...correction posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 6:38:16 PM
Doggone if I can't say what I'm thinking correct. I meant, is "low aspect" having a higher ratio of rim width/tire height?
Would "high aspect", then have a low ratio of rim width to tire height?...JONathan






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by: Fred on 7/20/2003 at 6:23:58 PM
OK, so I'm back again- remember me, I'm the fat middle-aged guy looking for some two wheeled exercise.

Thanks to another poster (thanx again Jim B.),I found the bicycle that is perfect for my needs- a mid-late '70s Raleigh Sprite with a big frame, upright handle bars, and a big soft seat for my big soft rear end.

It's a joy to ride- smooth, easily handled, and the stock gearing makes me feel that I could scale a vertical wall in low gear. All in all, I couldn't be happier- with one small exception.

The stock parts-bin type Raleigh side-pull brakes with the self-adjusting levers that came with this bicycle (I swear they're the same ones that come on the 3 speed models) are mediocre on a good day (and that's after the cables and blocks were replaced and adjusted) and atrocious on a bad day.

Can anyone recommend some brakes to upgrade to? I figured I'd just get a pair of center-pull types, but can I get some that will be compatible with the Raleigh's full fenders?

My local bike shop's solution- modify the frame and fork to use a set of cantilever brakes, but I don't know how much I'd trust a cobbled up arrangement like that- never mind it would be extremely expensive.

TIA for any recommendations.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by Fred on 7/20/2003 at 6:47:18 PM
One more thing I forgot to ask- are those self-adjusting levers an asset or a liability?

Thanks again,

Fred

    Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by John E on 7/20/2003 at 7:49:43 PM
Braking effectiveness is determined by rim surface, brake pad material, lever design, and caliper design. Although your Raleigh is not too good in any of these categories, you should be able to improve the brakes without breaking your budget.

1) Replace the pads with KoolStops (cheap, easy).
2) If braking is still inadequate, consider one or more of the following costlier options:
2a) replace your steel rims with aluminum, which will also enhance the bike's performance and handling noticeably;
2b1) replace the old-fashioned sidepulls with dual-pivot calipers, preferably with a (costly) drop-bolt. (All else being equal, the shorter the drop, the greater the leverage.);
2b2) replace your sidepulls with vintage Mafac centerpulls, and set the straddle cable length as short as practicable;
2c) replace your brake handles, if you can find a set which offer greater leverage when pulling the cable.

Replacing the calipers with cantilevers will indeed boost your braking effectiveness, but it will be a costly conversion. Consider replacing the front fork with one from a mountain bike, with the brake bosses already in place, because most of your braking effectiveness comes from the front, anyway.

   RE: Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by Wings on 7/21/2003 at 1:27:00 AM
I agree with John! I don't think I would attempt to go to a cantilever of any type. There are 990 conversion horse shoe shapped plates which I have on one of my bikes and works great -- but to find the right plate that would not move took some hunting and patience. There are even V-brake plates which I don' think I would ever go to!

1. One option is to replace the front fork so that you can use cantilever brakes or 990 or V brakes -- but I think that would place too much stopping power up front and therefore could be dangerous if not done right.

2. I have played with brake shoes and Kools Stop pads are great. I also suggest YPK brake pads -- I use the yellow and black ones. They are V Brake pads but I have even put them on BMX (not V brakes) bikes with good results. They cost $6 -- try a set and see it it is better.

Another option is made by Koolstop for V-Brakes on Mountain Bikes! These pads are longer and curved to the shape of the rim. Being longer they have a greater surface area that is in contact with the rim. These cost more but have worked well for me.

3. You could install a basket and place an anchor in it! Just kidding! :)
Keep pedaling!!!!


   RE:RE: Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by JONathan on 7/21/2003 at 9:25:18 AM
My Raleigh "Sprite" has 27 inch wheels and 3-sp. SA "AW" hub! They offerd up two versions; one with derailer gearing and the other was internal. There has to be a wide selection for your "sprite", if you have the 27 inch wheels. I use Weinmann "Vainqueur" 999 with long reach calipers. They stop very well and the fenders pose no obstacle. Finding a set may be very difficult. I give brakes away, but I guard the vainqueurs like a bulldog does a hambone. Good luck...JONathan

   Vainqueur 999s posted by John E on 7/21/2003 at 5:06:33 PM
While reassembling my freshly-painted 1959 Capo, I just finished completely rebuilding its original Weinmann Vainqueur 999 centerpull calipers, which used fiber pivot linings, instead of plastic. After 44 years, they still work beautifully! A decent pair of late 1970s 999 calipers (labeled "Peugeot") just sold very cheaply on eBay (less than $15, including shipping). Keep hunting!

   RE:RE:RE: Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by Dave on 7/21/2003 at 5:26:50 PM
Fred , Check out part#LBRAKE71 @www.firstflightbikes.com; they are New Old Stock Mafac Racers for $50, there is also several sets of Weinmann center pulls, some with hardware. Look at the Lightweight parts section.

   RE:RE:RE:RE: Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by Wings on 7/21/2003 at 7:05:31 PM
John mentioned going to alloy rims rather than steel. Not only would that give you better brakes but it would also give you a much better ride!!! Alloy rims improve how the bike feels!

I know you are happy with your bike --- but another option would be to find an old mountain bike since they all (almost all -- some have "U brakes" on rear) have bosses set for cantilever brakes and for $30 in parts you could have V brakes on front and rear. Put a downhill bar on it and you have the comfort bike feel.

Rims for the bike you have can be found in Thrift Stores by purchasing another bike -- just for the rims!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE: Brake upgrade for 10 speed Raleigh posted by Edward in Vancouver on 7/22/2003 at 3:46:15 AM
I know what you mean about those self-adjusting thingees on the Raleigh brake levers, and yes they were used on 3 speeds since about 1972. Most owners wisely removed them and put an adjusting barrel on the brake calipers.

Don't want to oversell the alloy rims, but they do provide far better braking suraface than steel--most importantly in wet conditions






AGE / VALUE:   Sugino GX vs. RT posted by: Gralyn on 7/20/2003 at 4:14:20 AM
Is the Sugino GX crank system better than the Sugino RT? Or is one just an earlier version than the other? I have a really nice bike which has the GX. However, it only accomodates 2 chainrings. I do have a really nice RT crank which will accomodate a 3rd chainring. I just would not want to de-value this bike.....but surely not...if the RT has threads for a 3rd chainring. If anyone knows - let me know.


   tall stackbolts posted by John E on 7/20/2003 at 7:53:52 PM
I have built several triples on ordinary road crank spiders, by using tall stack bolts and spacers. The only downside is that you will have to settle for a somewhat larger grannie than a typical dual BCD spider would permit.

If you want a "real" grannie, consider a triplizer, which is a center ring with two bolt circles. Harris Cyclery either sells them or can provide more data.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sugino GX vs. RT posted by Gralyn on 7/21/2003 at 1:21:17 PM
I think I have decided what to do. As my RT looks just as good as my GX....and as the weight difference, if any - is practically negledgible......I will swap out the GX for the RT with a granny gear added. That way, I can ride it easier up those hills. I will keep the GX....so that I can put it back original anytime I want to...and if I sell it....I can sell it with original equipment. Hopefully, it will accomodate the 3rd chainring....ie, I won't have to add a longer der. cage on the rear.....maybe at worst - have to remove a link from the chain.....I'll check it all out before I actually do it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sugino GX vs. RT posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 3:34:20 AM
Gralyn, I have a TA triple and I have the "Crane" derailer, which gobbles up loose chain. The cage is sticking down and gets causght on brush, etc. FWIW, I really don't see much use for the smallest chainring running on the smaller rear cogs. The only reason I wanted the third (small) CR, was to get a "granny" or "bailout" gear...I like that term. How sweet it is to crest with a smile....JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sugino GX vs. RT posted by Gralyn on 7/22/2003 at 2:15:42 PM
Yes, I never attempt to run the smallest "granny" gear on the front with the smallest gear on the rear. Although, I have one Schwinn Traveler with this set-up...and it accomodates it nicely. I have another beater Traveler - but if you run with the smallest and next-to-smallest on the rear - the chain rubs itself. But, I never use that combination anyway - on either bike. Usuall it's the largest 3 cogs on the rear with the granny gear on the front.
I have 3 road racing bikes - that I would ride much more - if I had some lower gears for the hills. One has an Exage set - so I want to keep it Exage - but it doesn't accomodate the 3rd chainring. Another has a Sun Tour Blaze set-up which doesn't accomodate the 3rd chainring. And the other bike has a Sugino crank....but the gearing isn't really a "set". So, I thought on that one - I would swap-out and have granny gear.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sugino GX vs. RT posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 6:52:23 PM
Those "Travelers" with 4130 and SunTour Arx, Sugino cranks, are real cruisers. I just came from a weekend of riding in Sacto. There was the Eppie's, Great Race going. It's along the American R., Jedediah Smith Memorial Bikepath. It's run-canoe(kayak)-bike with 3 man teams. There were some guys in the 8th decade on bikes! The path was closed for the race, but I got lots of riding in the 106 Deg. heat on my MTB. I regret not taking the "Traveler" as it cuts along those gravel-bed roads real nice, yet it sweeps along on the blacktop like a cool breeze. Mine is a 1983, which has served me well all year, in all weather. The whole set-up is due for greasing, the brakes are the only item of attention that I've kept in top shape. Oil the chain and ride! The hp tires are great for blacktop, while the cheapo ($10 Shen Chengs?) get put on for the rough stuff....JONathan






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   rims posted by: mark on 7/20/2003 at 4:10:58 AM
does anybody know a good place to get a set of 27 inch rims anything would be apreciated. thank you


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   rims posted by Randy on 7/20/2003 at 10:32:58 AM
The obvious answer is to try your local bicycle shop(s). You might, however, simply go to the local landfill site and see what you can find. I have picked up about six sets of 27 inch rims, alloy no less and some with quick release hubs. All of these wheels require only minor truing. The dump is a great source for vintage parts. If you are interested, you might benefit from having a look at http://geocities.com/randyjawa/. This site is devoted to telling and showing novice bicycle restorers how to go about fixing up old bikes and doing so on a very small budget. Good luck.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   rims posted by DannyJoe on 7/20/2003 at 1:26:01 PM
I have also taken the advice of dump digging in the past week's and came up with 2 set's of 27in. wheel's, one alloy the other a nice Nervar 5spd. cluster chrome rim pair with decent tires. I even picked up a 4130 tubed Schwinn frame/World Sport already stripped of parts for me.

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   rims posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 12:31:07 AM
Hey, I haven't tried this, but how about posting on a bike shop or club bulletin board. There are several clubs and shops that sponsor rides. Someone may have, or know of, a pair of alloy 27 inch wheels that they would gladly sell...seems that the 700c (622mm) wheels are replacing the 27 incher variety. I presume that this is true, for the greater selection offered for tires of the 700c variety. Good quality 27 inch tires are a bit tough to find. Unless you want vintage precision in the bike, I would suggest going for the 700c wheels, if they will fit on the bike properly. Good luck, JONathan






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Thinned the herd today posted by: Gralyn on 7/20/2003 at 3:32:04 AM
Someone came by today to look at a Schwinn World....and ended up buying my Nishiki Olympic 12. I had just got that bike, too! I know I have to get rid of some of them - but it always hurts to part with them. I really wish I didn't have to - but I have limited space, limited funds, and limited time....so the collection can't just continue to grow. But every time - I feel a bit of sadness.







AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Semi Pro posted by: Paul S on 7/20/2003 at 3:24:06 AM
I just purchased an older Centurion Semi Pro frameset. Seller wasn't much help with its history and I was wondering if anyone out there might be able to help date this bike and tell me what components it originally came with. It's yellow with crome head lugs and fork crown. Crome wrap around seat stays and cromed fork tips and drop outs. Semi Pro script on chainstays. Seat lug outlined in red and red pinstriping on top tube and fork blades.No braze ons but has mounting for one water cage. Has an acual metal circular centurion headbadge.Any assistance would be appreciated.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Centurion Semi Pro posted by Tom on 7/20/2003 at 4:49:27 PM
I don't know the exact history of Centurion, but I do know that the name was owned by US companies who contracted Japanese and Taiwan manufacturers to make the frames. Consequently I believe they were probably established during the early 70's bike boom. The earliest reference that I have seen for a Centurion bicycle is 1976.

The cosmetic description for you frame matches an attempt by someone trying to replicate the aesthetics of a top line early 70's Italian bicyle. The complicator, is the single bottle fitting. Brazed-on fittings started gaining popularity in the mid 1970's and most upper end models had the full complement of brazed-on fittings by 1980.

My best deduction is that you probably have a frame fom the mid to late 70's. If so, Centurion seemed to be using primarily Suntour components during that time. I would assume complete Superbe group, or possibly Cyclone with a Sugino crank and Dia-Compe brakes.

     Centurion Semi Pro posted by John E on 7/20/2003 at 7:56:55 PM
The more pedestrian Centurion LeMans (plain carbon steel frame, cheap aluminum crankset) dates back to 1972.






AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by: Kevin K on 7/19/2003 at 1:00:10 PM
Hi all. I've decided to move the location of the shifters on my 1979 LeTour IV from the stem ( twinn sticks ) to the down tube. However Schwinn uses braze ons in the location. I've used my Dremel tool to carefully remove the braze ons that would hold the cable housings for the shifters. I've used a good quality auto primer and Schwinn touch up paint to repair the bare metal area. I next installed the new shifters. Nice. My question is should I drill a small hole in the back side of the down tube and install a stainless steel screw to hold fast the shifters, or is simply tightening them firmly good enough. Thanks, Kevin


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by David on 7/19/2003 at 2:41:05 PM
Many bikes have no brazed-on stop. I've only seen scratched frames (from the shifters sliding) on bikes owned by people who didn't pay attention to anything on their bikes.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by JONathan on 7/19/2003 at 5:48:11 PM
Question: Would not the "brazed-on" tabs, or stops, help to keep the shifter clamp from sliding along the down-tube? Unless, of course, they are such a location along the tube that the shifters would be inconvenient to use.
It's a done-deal, now. I'm in it for the possibility of making use of that "stop" for a stem-to-downtube conversion that is in the planning stage...JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by Tom on 7/20/2003 at 12:37:26 AM
Personally, I would have gone to bar end shifters. This provides convenient shifting, while retaining the original cable stops. If you later decide that you want to revert to the original set-up, you have that option. Finally, the clamp-on down tube shifters are notorious for collecting your sweat. It pools there and eventually causes the clamp to rust and may even blister the paint.

However, given that you have already passed the point of no return, I would not drill the tube. The clamp should hold sufficiently, provided you re-tigten after the first ride.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by Kevin K on 7/20/2003 at 2:29:04 AM
Hey all. I realize removing these brazed on items is not always a good thing. I chose not to use bar ends as they usually scratch the devil out of the head tube. I've got my " riders " and then I've got the bikes I collect and ride every now and then. This LeTour IV is one of those. Last year I probally put 5 miles on it. What I didn't want to happen was for the shifter to slide on the down tube and ruin the paint. So I'll do as you guys have suggested. I'll snug it firmly onto the tube and watch it. Thank you very much for the input and advice. Kevin

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by Gralyn on 7/20/2003 at 3:31:17 AM
I have a Schwinn Traveler....'85, 86', or '87 model...I can't remember - but it came with stem shifters. I have a new set of clamp-on down-tube shifters. I was going to put them on - but it had those braze-on cable stops down there. So, I thought - forget it. But, I guess I could remove them....or most of them....leave a little for the stop for the clamp-on shifter. I have cable stops on other bikes - and they can be small and simple....but on this bike - they are rather big....they have like a cable guide....and a stop....kinda big and ugly.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by Tom on 7/20/2003 at 2:49:46 PM
Kevin, there's a cheap, effective and sanitary solution to your problem called a spreader bar. It permits you to run all kinds of handlebar mounted shift levers (bar ends, stem mounts, STI/Ergo, thumshifters, etc.) without the gear cable housings contacting the head tube. It's bar of plastic with a couple of troughs at each end that the gear cable housing snaps into. Placed just ahead of the brake cable, it will hold the gear cable housing about 65 mm apart. The cable housing can contact the headtube, but only if you turn the bars past about 45 degrees, which is not a normal riding situation. Several brands of new bikes come with them, notably Giant. A lot of mechanics just throw these things out, so you may be able to pick them up at no charge.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by Jimbo Jones on 7/21/2003 at 10:03:37 PM
Did the same thing to my Letour IV. Suntour down tube power shifters. Doesn't slip. Man those long twinn sticks were a dumb idea. Nothing like being out of the saddle and accidently shifting one of these with your knee.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 12:44:17 AM
Scary thought. I preder the downtube shifters because of the faster, more precise, shifts you get. The ;ess time time spent fiddling with shifters, the better off I am, especially in tricky conditions. Just my 2'c's...JONathan

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by Kevin K on 7/22/2003 at 3:07:31 AM
Hi. I like the Twinn Sticks on bikes like the Varsity, Continental and even the Super Sports. The chrome fits in great. But on the LeTour, Schwinn should have hung them up. Yea, the bikes not original anymore. It's a bike. I sure like the look a whole lot better now anyway. Kevin K

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   SHIFTER LOCATION MODIFIED posted by JONathan on 7/22/2003 at 3:50:26 AM
I think they are great on my Varsities and Continental. They have appeal in the coolness category. I ride for fun when on those bikes, not to have efficient, safe operation for commutes and long hauls. When I invert the Varsity for derailer tuning on the workbench, those shifters make a handy stabilizer...if I don't get carried away. Saves the cables and tape! It's best to keep one eye trained on the forks...don't want that monster to lie down on me when I ain't lookin'....JONathan






MISC:   Road Rash... posted by: Rob on 7/18/2003 at 6:13:02 PM
This one's for all you road warriors...I just gotta stop watching the "Tour de France"!!! ...took two spills this week...the first since a black ice incident last December. I commute to work daily, 18 miles round trip, rain or shine. Lots of road rash, but nothing serious. The weather and the cycling around here has been just terrific...I'm on my favorite bike and I guess I'm just not slowing down enough for turns and tightspots...loose, dry road grit and gravel were factors in both spills. The first, to avoid a little dachshund suddenly coming around the side of a large square park-style litter can...no way I was going to hit a dog...dogs, cats, wildlife, kids and old people are pretty well sacred with me..I'd rather take the spill; as for other adults....hmmm, :)...actually I think we all just react and try to best mitigate whatever situation we get into.... The second, this AM...turning into a narrow lane, another cyclist, some sand and road grit, and I'm down before I know it...it put a wobble in the front wheel, too...it's still rideable, I think, salvageable..

Anyway, good riding...and always remember to "expect the unexpected..."


   RE:MISC:   Road Rash... posted by Gralyn on 7/18/2003 at 6:56:37 PM
Well, let's see.....my last spill.....maybe almost 2 years ago? I was on a Ross. My fault...something stupid. It was new pavement...and very low shoulder...and I got too close to the edge of the pavement. I went down. Hit my knee worst of all. It has slowly gotten better - although it's nothing internal to the joint - it's more like a chip of bone, or pavement in it - that if you bump against it just right - it hurst like hell.
Before that....someone hit me with a truck. I was lucky - walked away with a bruise the size of my head - on my back.
Then, before that....a dog (maybe a Lab) decided to run along ahead of my....then the dog starts darting back and forth across in front of me. He darts to the right - cutting across my front wheel. I rolled over and over and over. I was bloody, and my front wheel looked like a taco. The front fork wasn't salvageable either.
Of course there were lots of them when I was a kid. But there's one close call - I feel I should mention - just for folks to keep in mind. I was riding along - not in the middle of the lane - but just right of it when a pick-up truck comes up behind me. I move over near the edge.....as the truck comes past me, I whip it back behind the truck. However, I didn't realize the truck was pulling a trailer. About an inch or two more - and I would have been in a really big mess...or I would have actually been a big mess.

   RE:MISC:   Road Rash... posted by Oscar on 7/18/2003 at 9:12:34 PM
It's been very long since I've crashed. If you enjoy riding fast, it's an inevitability.

Actually, I skidded out in some slush last winter, but it was so slow and I got up on my wheels so fast, that I don't count it.

Hope my number isn't coming up.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Road Rash... posted by Corey on 7/19/2003 at 3:37:03 AM
Just went down last Saturday in a double paceline
(I'll try to relate this to vintage lightweights, :-] ) at about 23 mph with a group of seven. On the right at the
front the lead guy corrected his line and the follower
crossed wheels. His front wheel turned left, he looked
left and I remember seeing (I was two riders back in the
accelerating left line) the most amazingly horrified look
on his face. He slammed directly down hard on his right
shoulder. His leftward turn took down the rider in front
of me. He went sideways. And of course I couldn't
correct and avoid, and clipped his wheel and went
down on my left. Slammed down hip, tailbone and shoulder
but didn't lose too much skin from elbow and knee.
The thing I thought after I stopped was, "broken hip,
Levi Leipheimer, broken sitbones!!" But no, nothing
broken.

But there was this noise after everybody stopped sliding,
"Ahhhhhhh!!!!" that didn't stop. It was the rider who
slammed down on his shoulder. It took him a minute more
to stop screaming. But(!), he recovered and actually rode
back to the start!

But my bike (circa 1995 Quattro Assi and not vintage)
was relatively unscathed. In fact a creaky saddle that
hit the pavement, stopped creaking!

Keep spinning out there,
Corey