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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by: DOUG on 1/22/2004 at 1:01:43 PM
I am trying to find information regarding an old
RRA I own. It seems to be very similar to the the one
shown on the Retro Raleigh site at Owls Head, though mine
is set up more as a racer than a touring version. It's
serial # AC60788 does not correspond to those to those on
the S# data base at this site. I would like to learn more
about this bike such as history, original spec, and value.
Any information would be a big help!





   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   RALEIGH RECORD ACE posted by Wayne on 1/22/2004 at 3:38:18 PM
Hi
The "RetroRaleighs" (www.retroraleighs.com)website has a good chart for dating old Raleighs. According to that site
yours was made after 1972, and before the late 80's I quote fom the site;
In 1972, an entirely different numbering system was introduced for the higher end (531 and subsequently 753) Raleighs. Serial numbers should begin with a "W", which stands for Worksop, the facility that produced theses frames. This is followed by another alphabet. This alphabet indicates the fortnight in which the frame was built (i.e. A = 1st fortnight, B = 2nd, etc.). The third character is always a numeral. It indicates the year of manufacture, the decade being assumed (i.e. "4" could be '74 or '84; it is up to the interpretor to know enough to tell if the frame is from the 70's or 80's). What then follows is a series of numbers. At this point, these appear to be some sort of sequence, but this has not been substantiated.
This was not only accurate for the "higher end" models but most Raleigh bikes.
Based on that, yours was made in a Raleigh factory using the "A" for the factory code, and was built in the third fortnight of 1976 - AC6.
I know the code letters for 3 of the Raleigh factories,

W - Woksop England
N - Nottingham England
R - Canada

I have seen the letter "A" mentioned before but it was part of a post about a Raleigh located in Malaysia, but maybe the bike was imported to that area?
I hope this was of help.
Wayne






MISC:   1976 Raleigh "sprite" 10 speed posted by: JONathan on 1/22/2004 at 3:24:49 AM
35 pounds of rolling steel, this bike rocks. I finally got it tuned last weekend, been taking it everyday this week.
Today, as on most wednesdays, the rec. riders wree out in force; especially with the good weather. I had the expanding rack deployed with about 10 pounds of gear packed in and it cruised.
I would come up on the spudded bikes at a stop light and immediately get a jump at the green. I'd be across the intersections before they got clipped in. Some would struggle by at 100 rpm on the straights, but I was coasting for log periods and not dropping off much.
On the wide open stretch of road, the bike just kept going faster and faster. I think the freewheel shifter cable needs lube inside the shroud, because it would not drop into 10th gear. Maybe I adjusted the cable a bit tight. 30 mph was topend for 9th gear, but I could have hit 35 easy with 10th engaged.
This was with the OEM rubber block pedals; with the ankling technique, of course. I hope they were having as much fun as I was. I had no idea these clunky 10 speeds could haul out like that. I wonder how it will be next week, when I go to the 21.5 pound "Technium". I'll probably tear the cranks out, after working the "Sprite" this week.
If you can get a "sprite", you'll not be disappointed. THe Huret "star?" steel pantograph derailer is slugglish, but it's reliablly consistent once you get it dialed.
Rides,
JONathan


   RE:MISC:   1976 Raleigh posted by Rob on 1/22/2004 at 4:24:06 AM
I've seen a few Record Aces in my travels, but I'll watch for Sprites now...I think there is something about heavy bikes, particularly for strong riders...I have an old Korean-built hybrid from about 1989, I don't think there is even a hint of alloy associated with it ...I occasionally take it on rough rides...it's clunky, but once I get it up speed it seems to smooth right out, and seems to want to go faster and faster....I kind of think of it as a 'flywheel' effect...

   RE:RE:MISC:   1976 Raleigh posted by JONathan on 1/22/2004 at 5:32:40 AM
Yes, I know what you're saying. We have hit on the "flywheel effect" in previous discussion.
This particular bike has the roadster-style bars. See 1976 "sprite" at Retro-Raleighs...mine is just like the yellow bike, only mine is carmen red.
The way it's setup, I feel like I'm rowing...pulling on the bars really gets the lats and back into transferring power, while pushing down hard with the legs.
Ever watched the "eights" pulling the estuary? It's "pull-push" simulataneously. Lots of drive comes out of that action.
I notice that the steel cranks are pretty stiff under a load. Interesting feature of this bike is over the bikebridge there are two steel plates that really bang loudly when crossed with a regular road bike.
The "sprite" crosses the plates with no bone shaking and with no banging noise to freak you out. Also, on the levee roads along washboard sections, it takes them real slick...no pogoing around from suspensions bottoming out.
The suspension is stiff with very little retention time to worry about. All this adds up to a lot of energy going to the rear drive. I think I may have to replace the rear axle, or straighten it a bit, because the freewheel has a lot of runout.
This was tyhe result of a bit too much enthusiasm on the trail last weekend.
The lugwork is better than my RRA ('77). Real tight frame on these bikes. I hope you get one. I have a ladies' frame 3-speed "sprite", which doesn't seem to get going like the standard frame. It's a '79 with lugwork that's not as good as the '76.
Both are Nottingham builts.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   1976 Raleigh posted by Dick in FL on 1/22/2004 at 6:46:34 AM
It elates me to see this kind of enthusiasm for Sprites. They are the "Rodney Dangerfields" of the English Roadster forum. My brother fairly drips disdain on the "neither fish nor fowl" handlebars, but I adore them. They are called All-Rounders and, I believe, are unique to the Sprite.

One cautionary note: The stem mounted shift levers are quite fragile, and if one neglects cable lubrication, they are apt to fracture.

FYI: One of mine appears to have never been used, and I used it as a reference to detail the other. The tires have ribs that run cicumferentially around the gumwalls and are embossed "Raleigh Racing". I'm estimating it to be early 70's (36 spokes, self-adjusting brakes, Dare grips, but no CPSC reflectors).

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   1976 Raleigh posted by P.C. Kohler on 1/22/2004 at 2:46:13 PM
Yes, Dick.. odd we have to come to Vintage Lightweights to find nice things said about the oddly much-maligned Sprite! Like it or not, this was one of Raleigh's great contributions to the Bike Boom of the 70s. It was also a machine that seems to have been sold, like the Sports, very often as a matching gents and ladies pair; or at least that what seems to come up eBay so often.

I loved my Spite 27s (plural, one was stolen almost brand new from high school!) since it gave me "cool" 10 speeds but had the "dignity" of an English roadster.

Now what's really rare is the original Sprite.. no not the 26" wheel 5-five hub version... but the 10-speed "racer" introduced in 1962. Never seen one.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   1976 Raleigh posted by JONathan on 1/23/2004 at 5:32:58 PM
Dick, the shifters on the "sprite" I'm running are chromed steel, not the sheetmetal shrouded plastic ones. Those always snap after the uv makes the plastic brittle.
They were the Simplex shifters. Those had a plastic wingnut that was easy to break when new. I have one pair with a surviving wingnut. It's all good, if they snap, the nut can be tightened with a open-end wrench. It just looks unfinished.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MY OTHER CONTI IS A ........................... posted by: L.P. on 1/21/2004 at 10:59:17 PM
Good day and what a day it has been.First i dropped $121.00 bucks on new front tires for my 93 eclipse and $62.00 for insurance.I felt like whats next!!!!
But on my way home i stopped by my old haunt and picked up a 1971 schwinn continental that has had to have been hung in someones garage since 1973!!!!!!!!!
At $12.99, i forgot all my car paranoia,the bike is in my room now and my car is in the rain.
I love it,
Take care,
L.P.


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MY OTHER CONTI IS A ........................... posted by Fred A on 1/22/2004 at 10:08:50 PM
Well. you can put a positive spin on the tires (no pun intended). Had you not needed them at that moment, someone else probably would have beat you to the place where the Schwinn Continental was........

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MY OTHER CONTI IS A ........................... posted by L.P. on 1/22/2004 at 10:24:09 PM
Thanks,your so right!!!!!!!
L.P.






AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by: Joe on 1/21/2004 at 11:07:37 AM
This weekend I trash picked an odd branded bike, the headbadge says Jacques Anquetil Bicycles, France. It's missing it's handlebars and wheels, but looks to be in fair condition otherwise. It has red label Simplex Prestige derailleurs, Mafac center pull calipers, Solida steel cottered cranks, Stronglight headset, and uses French threading throughout.
The forks are chrome tipped, with a cast and somewhat decorative chrome crown, semi fancy lug work, white paint with bright orange, chrome, red, and yellow decals with a black and white photo of Jacques Anquetil himself on the seat tube. The headbadge is a foil decal type as are all of the decals.
I trial fitted a set of both 700 and 27" wheels, and it appears to have had 27" rims.
The only info I have found online so far is a pic of a 20" folding bike with the same decal set. It looks comparable to a Peugeot U0-8 and by looking at the components, I would guess it to be from around the mid 1970's. I have compared the lugs and the fork to a Peogeot i have here but they do not match, I am assuming that it was probably made by one of the larger French manufacturers for a smaller company or distributor? It just seems that a Jacques Anquetil branded bike in the mid to late 70's would be unlikely due to the fact that his winning streak was in the late 50's/early 60's? I would have thought that his name would nave been somewhat unknown by then, especially to a somewhat entry level bike buyer?
Has anyone here heard of or maybe have any info on these?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Rob on 1/21/2004 at 5:29:49 PM
I seem to recall a discussion about them a few months back...I can't remember if it was here or on one of the classicrendezvous forums...What I recall is that they were basic OK bikes using Jacques Anquetil's name for marketing reasons...I think the Simplex Prestige der. came out about 1965...some of them have a month/year date stamp on the pulley cage (all the ones I've seen seem to be 1972...I might have one saying 1971, but I just guessing)...Are the MAFACS Racers?...Back in that era there were lots of French bikes that looked like Peugeot knockoffs...I've got a few...Peugeot was the standard...the big kid on the block...If I had to guess I would say right around 1970... Try searching the oldroads archives...if the discussion was in this forum it was only a few months ago... If I had the chance of one and the price was cheap I'm sure I would go for it... (I just bought, over the phone, from a friend of a friend, a 30 year old, hardly used Peugeot AE-8 (based on the description given...I haven't seen the bike yet)...$40CDN ($31US)...I probably would have paid $60 for a UO/E-8 in the condition described...those old French bikes, even the low-end ones have a certain charm that's hard to resist...) Something a bit different, a novelty... :)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by JONathan on 1/21/2004 at 7:41:50 PM
Very interesting find. Mercier had a "100" model-type with rival Raymond Poulidor decal on the seat-tube.
Early '70's. I painstakingly restored one, which I think would never have happened knowing what it took. The decals are in great shape and the paint "rubbed" out to a nice vintage-look.
I just wonder...Anquetil rode Gitanes at some point and Gitanes and Merciers were competing for sales. There was considerable mystic attached to the French bicycles when the bikeboom started and lugged, European frames were deemed superior to welded frames.
This was before the Japanese 10 speeds took off in the market with high value/dollar models. My Mercier with Poulidor sticker emblazoned onto the seat-tube is a quaint tribute to the sociology of the bikeboom. Basically, a beater, the bike has taken up a place of honor in my collection, as the bike epitomizez a distinct attribute of the VLW era.
It also, on a more personal level, demonstrated to myself that I can take a bike apart and put it all back correctly. I resreve the statement for VLW's, only. I acn't begin to figure out the new stuff, especially the suspensioned components. I think you done great with the JA bike!
Thanks for posting.
JONathan

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by T-mar on 1/21/2004 at 8:01:22 PM
I agree with Rob, it is probably an early 1970's model. Most of the entry level French bicyles during this period were cookie cutter bicyles. That is to say there was a pretty much standard component mix of Simplex Prestige derailleurs, Mafac Racer brakes, Solida or Nervar cottered crankset and Atom or Normandy hubs laced to steel rims. You might get some variation in some of the lesser components, but outside of the decals, and maybe the lugwork, most owners would be hard pressed to tell them apart. Equivalents to your Jacques Anquetil would have been the Gitane Gran Sport, Jeunet Model 610, Mercier Model 100 and Peugeot Model UO8. The one notable exception among the 5 major French companies in the early 1970s was Motobecane, who had a preference was specifying Huret (and later Suntour) derailleurs.

Most riders do not start their own bicycle brand until after their retirement. How long that brand survives depends on the rider's reputation, his interest in the business, the competence of his management team and the public's perceived value of the brand. In Anquetil's case, there was no French rider to match his reputation until Hinault came along in the 1980s, so it's not suprising that the make was able to survive well into the seventies. If you look at to-day's market there are a number of "Famous Racer" brands that have survived well beyond the end of the founders careers. Among the most famous are Coppi (45 years since retirement), Merckx (26 years) and Lemond (10 years). In fact, most European brands stem from a former professional racer. They may not have been a top name, but their passion for the sport never died and their legacy lives on in the bicycles that bear their names.

   another racer-turned-builder posted by John E on 1/21/2004 at 8:28:57 PM
As many of you know from some of my earlier posts, Otto Cap raced bicycles in the 1920s, then retired from racing and opened his company, Capo (a clever Italianate play on his own name, Cap, O.), in 1930, in Vienna, Austria. [www.capo.at] Under the Capo marque, his son, Harald ("Hary Capo") Cap, now designs made-to-order framesets, using customized computer-aided-design tools.

   RE:another racer-turned-builder posted by JONathan on 1/21/2004 at 9:18:31 PM
Yes, indeed. And a fine bike it is. Superior craftsmanship and the understanding of what makes for a superior ride is a combination that's hard to beat.
As a marked contrast to the Capo; it's mazing to me how really well the large-scale production bikes perform, considering the economic derivatives. Like my Mercier (100?) low-end bike with Poulidor waving, happily decal covering most of the seat-post
(so over the top!) is remarkably suited for road work...if you're a bit in shape, of course. 30#'s of bike will burn a lot of calories. Hip, hip, for the vintage "lightweights".

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Rob on 1/22/2004 at 2:22:41 AM
T-Mar's post reminded me of the story behind that famous Italian brand, "Bottecchia"...Ottavio Bottecchia was a famous rider in the 1920's...apparently the first Italian 'campionissimo'....he was found badly injured on the side of a road a few weeks before the 1927 Tour...he died within hours...lots of rumours...a French farmer admitted on his death bed some years later he had actually thrown a rock at him after he caught Bottecchia stealing grapes...I guess he had a good aim... The stuff of heros...the Bottecchia name survives to this day!!! And, Fausto Coppi,...he died in 1960 at the age of aroound 40, after contracting a tropical illness during a race in West Africa...but the rumour mill has suggested he was poisoned, apparently for his part in the accidental death of another rider during the race...apparently to this day, the matter, and the controversy, can still make headlines in Italy...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Joe on 1/22/2004 at 10:11:29 AM
I have the derailleurs off and apart now for a good cleaning, the rear cage is without a date code. The steer tube id is 22mm, and I am assuming it had either an AVA or Pivo type stem. I would like to know whether it had steel handlebars and rims. I was considering trying to find enough info on it to maybe put it back to original. I do have a spare NOS set of wheels from a U0-8 that would work well, along with an original AVA ‘death stem’. I also have a set of AVA alloy bars that would work as well. There are no brake lever clamps present to check clamp size to determine the bar diameter either.

I have been dealing with road bikes since the late 70’s and have never run across one of these before. Back then this area was saturated with Peugeot U0-8’s, various Motobecane’s, and the usual Schwinn Varsity’s, with the occasional Itala, Gitane, and various other makes, but I’ve never even heard of these before. I was wandering if maybe they were more common to a particular part of the country or if this may have been a one of brought in by a private owner from Europe? The one I found online was in a museum in NYC and it was a 20” folder. I had emailed Sheldon Brown as well as the webmaster of the sight that listed the one online and got pretty much the same response as T-Mar gave above.

The frame appears to be just regular steel but is fairly light for a 23” frame, it’s only slightly heavier than a 25” Super Course frame and fork. Quality of the lug work and dropouts looks slightly better than my U0-8. The Mafac calipers are Racers. The down tube shifters are clamp on style with no braze on posts. It does use several braze on cable stops that appear to be just crude stamped steel spot welded in place, one was bent around slightly and all of them are slightly misaligned or have visable space behind them. The headset is the same as the U0-8. and it uses a fairly small diameter seat post. I wander if there are any shops online in France that may have some knowledge of these? I had good luck finding information on an older Raleigh which was bought overseas by contacting a shop in London. I agree, that there is a certain novelty of an off brand bike like this, especially with the Jacques Anquetil name and the fact that it’s probably a good example of an early bike boom French bike and will stand out from the common Peugeot U0-8’s.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Joe on 1/23/2004 at 8:33:01 AM
Schwinnderella, Good call, it looks like almost the same bike. The one on ebay has nearly identical decals and looks to have what appears to be Suntour shifters, probably swapped out when the plastic Simplex ones broke. The one I found also has chrome tipped forks. Mine has fancier looking lugs, and a more detailed and chromed fork crown. Mine has a slightly different seat post decal with the addition of some writing in French above the foil photo decal. It also appears to have alloy wheels on it with small flange hubs. I'll email the seller to see if they have any history on it.

   French headset/steerer diameter posted by John E on 1/22/2004 at 3:02:28 PM
What I love/hate about French and Swiss bikes is that they are almost 100% metric, right down to the 22mm, instead of 7/8"=22.2mm, handlebar stem diameter. Since I do not trust old aluminum stems, particularly the AVA Stems of Death, both of my Peugeots now sport ISO stems, which I sanded down to 22mm. Yes, the black Salsa stem looks out of place on my UO-8, but this is supposed to be a safe, reliable transportation/commuting/cyclecross bike, complete with Sugino Aero cranks, aluminum rims, 27x1-3/8" knobbies, SunTour derailleurs, SunTour ratchet barcons, and Japanese road quill pedals.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Schwinnderella on 1/22/2004 at 4:01:30 PM
There is one on ebay now #2219744552

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by T-Mar on 1/22/2004 at 8:19:31 PM
My "cookie cutter" comment was not to infer that the bicycles where poorly made. On the contrary, it was more a case of everybody copying a successful formula. In fact the formula could be extended to other notably non-French makes. The Raleigh Grand Prix had all the same major components, with the substitution of Weinmann brakes for the MAFACs. Even Italian brands such as Atala and Bottechia were copying the basic format and using Simplex Prestige derailleurs though they would usually substitute comparable Italian branded cottered cranksets, steel rims, hubs and centre-pull brakes. During 70's bicycle boom there was no question that this was the most popular and most competitive price range of bicycle.

Since you have already tested 700C and found that 27" was a better fit, that would indicate a steel rim was probably original. Aluminum, clincher rims were rare on French bikes during this period. The next model up traditionally was a "Club Racer" which used the same basic component set-up but had tubular rims/tires, which your bike did not appear to have.

John E., given the advanced component replacement programs you have put in place for your Peugeots. I would suggest that it is not the Salsa stems that look out of place, but the vintage Peugeot frame! However, you have obviously found a formula that works well for yourself and I say "all the more power to you"!


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Chris on 1/23/2004 at 10:52:28 PM
Not all the Mafacs are the racer brand or Racer version. No Way!

Mafac made the Racer the cheapest version, the Compettition, is worth more, the Driver, also worth more. the Mafac brakes get rare and kind pricy and don't forget anything like the clips and cable guides and related do-hickeys!
Just collect Mafac. Get it "in the blood" and allow it to spread. Then the "bicycle bug" will have you collecting and saving all the old crazy French bicycle parts and bikes!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Chris on 1/23/2004 at 10:54:18 PM
Mafac made a wide variety of brakes. More names than what I can remember at the moment. They did cantileaver brakes also.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rare Find or Run-of-the-Mill? posted by Joe on 1/24/2004 at 9:40:29 AM
I contacted the seller with the Jacques Anquetil on eBay and he suggested that it may have been produced by Lejune?
He stated that it is in original form but didn't know what year it was. It has steel wheels with small flange hubs. By looking closer at the pics of his, it appears that the bike on eBay's frame is different enough to be from posibly another manufacturer. The lugs are different, geometry is noticably different, as are the forks. This kind of leads me to believe this was a brand that may have simply shopped for the lowest bidder when commissioning a builder for their bikes. But even still, this is only the third one of these I've seen so far.
For now, I will probably outfit mine with some of my spare U0-8 running gear and wheels. I'll keep searching for some history on these and if I find out later that it originally had other equipment I can always make the needed changes.

As far as the posts here about Mafac, I agree that these pieces are getting harder to find, the brake lever hoods are the hardest item to locate in good condition, and when you do, especially on eBay, they bring a mint. I can't imagine how many of these just dry rotted away over the years on the shelf. Most of the older Peugeots I have seen have been converted to Weinmann, Dia-Compe, or Shimano calipers and levers. Most of the Mafac pieces I've come accross at local bike shops have been new take offs that had been removed in favor of another braking system.






AGE / VALUE:   Latest Findings posted by: Gralyn on 1/21/2004 at 3:18:33 AM
Although I still say it's a dry spell - I have spotted a few old lightweights. Most times I don't spot any....but ever now and then - one turns up. Here lately: A pair of Peugeots (carbolite 103), an old Hercules 10 speed, a Ross Gran Tour Professional Model, a Gitane Grand Sport Delux, and a Motobecane Le Velo.

I found the Motobecane Le Velo today....and posted about it already.

Over the weekend, I found a Gitane Grand Sport Delux. It's green, looks to be mostly original - except for the saddle - which was HUGE!!! It has Weinmann side pulls and Weinmann single lever brakes with hoods. Rigida chrome wheels with high flange hubs with QR front and rear. 10 speed. Michellin tires - that seem to be in good condition - no dry rot, cracks, etc. Frame mounted pump (with the old bolt-on pump pegs). It had a large touring bag mounted on the bars. In the bag were new spare cable sets, lots of patches, and patch kits, and a Mafac tool set - which had many small flat spanners, tire irons, and various other items).

All for $10!!!!! Heck, the bag and contents alone were worth $10.

OK, so the collection continues to grow. And with more varaiety. I have a new digital camera - and plan to photo all of them - put them in an album, etc., put in the picture database, etc.
......but I will have to weed out some of them....







AGE / VALUE:   BCA Bicycle Corp of America? posted by: marc on 1/21/2004 at 2:53:59 AM
Has anyone heard of this company? There is a white bicycle at a local thrift store that's named "The New Yorker" The maker is Bicycle Corp of America out of Allentown PA. Never heard of this company. It had nice lugs, arya wheels, shimano hubs, shimano tourney brakes and levers, the shifters and front der were suntour, the rear der was a shimano sis, with a really long cage, never saw one like that before. Handlebars were sakae custom, forgot what the cranks were. It was marked 35.00. I thought it was interesting, I was thinking about picking it up for the brakes. Seemed a bit on the heavy side. any info would be appreciated


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   BCA Bicycle Corp of America? posted by Joe on 1/21/2004 at 8:57:21 AM
Just a thought, Ross Bicycles were made in Allentown, PA and the company was originally from NY.
Posibly an off shoot brand? Maybe they were a last ditch attempt after Ross had sold out in the mid 80's to Rand Bicycles just after a short run of selling rebadged Asian imports after converting the Allentown plant to making ammo boxes for Uncle Sam.


   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   BCA Bicycle Corp of America? posted by dent on 1/22/2004 at 2:57:35 AM
I own a BCA with 531 tubing which I bought new in '87 it came with Shimano Scroll(105) group, eyelet's for fender's so it was more sport than race. Unsure of BCA's origin, Stacey responded to a post from me on BCA's in the past, maybe He/She(apoligies) can give us a bio refresh.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   BCA Bicycle Corp of America? posted by marc on 1/22/2004 at 6:45:00 AM
well it was an interesting bike. I really like the paint job and I'm not a fan of white. I think was more of a pearlescent. The decals were unimpressive, if I get it, if it's still there tomorrow, I might strip the decals off. Out of curiosity, what does the headbadge on yours look like? Also, does anyone have any experience with these shimano tourney center pulls?






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Cool BSA FF on ebay posted by: David on 1/20/2004 at 9:05:19 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3654294969







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by: marc on 1/20/2004 at 3:32:25 PM
I'm posting again about my motobecane mirage and mixte. Well the mirage I only paid 5 dollars for because the wheels were trashed. To me it looks like the bike was laying down on the ground and someone ran a car over the tires. Remarkably there was no other damage to the frame or fork. I search every inch and other bends, even at the rear drop out where the der. hanger was bent inwards. I guess moto frames are pretty strong. I took a closer look at the trashed wheels, the rear is a rigida chromix with the textured braking surface which I'm assuming was stock. The front is a no name and must have been replaced along the way. The brakes are weinmann vannequer 999's and are in great shape. The rear der. is a suntour V-GT luxe and seems to still be in pretty good shape, I haven't tested it but I will need a new hanger for it. The front der. is a suntour compe-V and is broken and unrepairable. Anyone care to guess if these are stock ders.? Also, there is a 1020 carbon steel sticker on the frame. Isn't this just basic steel? A step above pipes?

Now onto the mixte. There's no model name anywhere on it, can anyone help identify it? It has cottered cranks, I think they are nervar. Cottered cranks scare me, they seem like too much of a hassle if anything goes wrong. This bike also has the weinmann 999's and rigida chromix wheels. It also has huret front and rear ders. I did a quick test and they seem to shift wonderfully, and are great shape, perhaps this is owed to the fact that the odometer only shows 300 plus miles for this bike. I can't find a model name on the ders. but I'm guessing that they are not top of the line huret models considering the huret name is not cast into the rear der. but rather is placed on with a sticker. The handlebars are actually hybrid type, chrome.

So, I'm wondering if I should just keep the mixte intact? I know I asked this earlier but I figured I'd offer the other details I left out. My plan when I bought the mixte was to strip it and make the mirage an all french beauty. I could put the suntour AR's on the mixte and I've got another spare set of wheels that should fit it. Honest opinions would be greatly appreciated.


      MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by John E on 1/20/2004 at 8:51:49 PM
You got your money's worth, Marc. If you want to ride the mixte or have a good place to store it, by all means keep it intact. If the Mirage is more to your liking, then do the parts swap you suggested. I probably have a spare SunTour derailleur "claw," if you need one.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by Gralyn on 1/20/2004 at 9:05:27 PM
MOTO-MANIA!!!!!!!!!!
On my luch break today - I spot a Motobecane Velo. I had not heard of that particular model before. I have Nomade, Mirage, and Sprint. This one is silver, maybe 22 or 23 inch frame, Rigida Chrome wheels (no QR), Supermaxy cranks, Sachs Hurret gearing, Weinmann side-pulls, drilled levers with safety levers, lyotard pedals. It looks to be in really good condition....actually, good running condition. The tires were even up....and the tires weren't too bad. It was only $15.....then, a discount on top of that....brought it to $12. Awesome!
I think it's about a 1986 model (from the date code I saw on the handlebar stem).
Ever heard of the VELO model? I don't think it's very high in the line-up, though.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by Rob on 1/20/2004 at 9:11:44 PM
The Mirage with SunTour V-GT/ V-Compe setup and the Vainquer cps sounds to me like it must be from around 1974...assuming all is original. It will likely be a good basic run-around kind of bike...a good commuter...As SunTour ders are pretty good, the fact the front is broken and the rear claw needs replacing suggests the bike may have been roughly treated...But at $5 it sounds like a great deal... The mixte, I don't know anything about...

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by T-Mar on 1/20/2004 at 9:22:12 PM
Motobecane was one of the first European manufacturers to recognize the superiority of the Japanese componentry.

Your Mirage's componentry matches a late 70's model. The mixte sounds like either a Nobly or Nomade. The Nomade had dropped bars and a racing saddle, while the Nobly was basically the same bicycle with upright bars, mattress saddle, fenders, racks and kickstand. The derailleur is probably a Challenger model. However, the presence of a cottered crankset and a Challenger is a bit susprising. The Challenger may have been later replacement for an Allvit.

Regarding the tubing, your assumption is correct. 1020 is your garden variety bicyle tubing.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by JONathan on 1/20/2004 at 11:02:37 PM
That's a tough one, Marc. Personally, I would ride the mixte until I could locate some Araya, Rigida or Weinmann ally rimmed wheels for the "Mirage". I would use the SunTour rear derailer and if the seat-tube is suitable diameter to handle the SunTour front derailer, I would set it up.
Keep the Vainqueurs on the Mirage. Meanwhile you can ride the mixte to get a feel for how they ride.
I would test the Mirage to be sure it handles correctly and SAFELY. You know it's possible there was some subtle torquing of the frame triangles or forks especially, that wouldn't show up by casual inspection...without string tests for trueness. Make sure a trued rear wheel spins true in the dropouts...checking for any out-of-plane rotation.
Check the trued wheel in the forks for symmetrical rotation. Check that the front and rear wheels line up on the same line and plane. I check the ride very gingerly at first spin, to make sure it is safe, if nothing else.
You could fit the Rigidas in there to test the bike, before going to a lot of trouble fixing it up.
I'd be wary of the frame. Sounds like it had some savage treatment to cause all that damage.
You might really like the mixte as a ride. They are comfortable bikes.
Good luck.
BTW, the cottered French cranks are OK, just need the 9mm pins, which may be problematic. There's a LBS here that has them, so I know they're around.
I wouldn't trust the Mirage's cranks, knowing the extent of the damage sustained to other running gear.
JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   MOTO MAYHEIM!!! posted by JONathan on 1/20/2004 at 11:19:28 PM
Just one note...that mirage has "buy-the-bike" parts. Those Weinmann Vainqueur "999" 750/610 cp brakes
are worth it, for sure. My "Super Mirage" from the same era as your "mirage" is a nice riding bike. It has 3040 "high resiliency steel" tube set, which is way better than the 1020 tubes, IMHO.

   Clarification posted by JONathan on 1/21/2004 at 2:24:38 AM
I read over my post above and I meant to add that the "Mirage" is likely to have the same steel (3040) as the "Super Mirage".
Probably it will be the same nice ride. That's what I was trying to say.
Good ridin'.
JONathan






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Update on my latest 2 Peugeots posted by: Gralyn on 1/20/2004 at 3:00:46 PM
I had found a couple of Peugeot....whatever's....a few weeks back...with Wolber and Rigida alloy QR wheels. Well, I've been working on them. The blue one (1984 model) is almost finished. I put the Rigida's back on it...with the helicomatic hub. I put the original bars and brake levers (after removing the safety levers) and new bar tape. I was going to put some better side-pulls on it....but the ones I had would not reach...so I put the original Weinmann CP's back on. Original chainrings and cranks. It originally had stem-mounted shifters - but I replaced them with down-tube shifters. I put yellow cable housings on....it kind of matches the graphics. Well, it looks very nice, looks new. It weighs about 23 - 25 lbs. I thought when I bought them, that they felt pretty light.
.......does that seem right? Would these bikes have weighed under 25 lbs?


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Update on my latest 2 Peugeots posted by T-Mar on 1/20/2004 at 8:44:33 PM
In order to get a Carbolite framed bicycle down to 23-25 lb, I would think that you would have to equip it with tubular wheels & tires and make a few component upgrades.

To put the weight into perspective, the catalog quotes 27 lb for the P6 (Carbolite 103 frame, Solida 2000 cranks, Atom hubs with Rigida steel rims, Huret Eco derailleurs, Weinmann 730 brakes and steel bars/stem). The advertised weight is 26.5 lb for the P8 (Carbolite 103 frame, Solida 5270 cranks, Atom hubs with Rigida aluminum rims, SunTour Seven derailleurs, Weinmann 610 brakes and steel bars/stem). Now to top things off, these are weights for the small frame and you can just about guarrantee that Peugeot was being aggressive with their claims, so as not to lose any market share to their competitors. If you've got a typical 23" frame, I think you would realistically be looking at about 27-28 lbs, with a stock set-up.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Update on my latest 2 Peugeots posted by Gralyn on 1/21/2004 at 3:18:23 AM
Well, I know the wheels are aluminum. New tires that are pretty light. Very light alloy crankset. I think the bars and stem are alloy. Alloy seat post. Saddle is not really light - but it's not heavy either.....pretty light. The ders seem a bit heavy. I'll have to take it somewhere and get an accurate weight on it.






AGE / VALUE:   finding ebayer posted by: Mark on 1/20/2004 at 12:50:54 AM
Hi, All i am trying to find the name of a ebay seller called Igrillo he was selling a bianchi ,i was interested in . Does any one have his name or e-mail adress. Thanks Mark. at ml fremeau@verizon.net


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   finding ebayer posted by Stacey on 1/20/2004 at 12:19:09 PM
Try this link Mark:

http://cgi2.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback&userid=igrillo&item=-1&frompage=285&de=off






AGE / VALUE:   A nice thrift store find posted by: marc on 1/19/2004 at 9:49:12 PM
Well I started to tell you all about the bike I found in my post about my freewheel problem with the weinmann wheel set but I'll give you a full description here. I found a motobecane women's touring bicycle which is a treasure trove of parts for me and the motobecane mirage frame I'm building. I was originally going to use the weinmann wheelset on it but then I found this beauty. It has rigada wheels, and huret drs, I was going to use some suntour AR's I had laying around but now that I've got those hurets I'll go for the all french look. These rigadas arent quick release like the weinmann's but they have the cool "M" nuts which will look extra nice on my mirage. This bike also came with an old schwinn touring bag that is going to look great on my 1951 schwinn traveler. Not bad for 20 bucks.

This ladies frame is one of those funky frames from the 70's I think. The top tube is actually two smaller tubes and the rear brake cable runs inbetween them. The paint is nearly perfect on it and I was wondering if these frames are of any particular interest or should I just send it on its merry way. I've seen a similar raleigh and even a huffy.

I also saw a ladies peugeout, the paint was almost perfect on it. It was white with blue and orange decals. The finish was very interesting though, from afar the frame almost looked like it was made of styrofoam, kind of hard to explain. It seemed rather light as well. It had rigagda wheels, I think suntour drs. Also had a peugeot water bottle. I was tempted to pick it up for the wheel set, but then what do I do with all the pretty ladies frames? It was only 20 bucks. Should I have gotten it? I think it was canadian.

your opinions will be appreciated

marc


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   A nice thrift store find posted by marc on 1/19/2004 at 10:36:20 PM
Almost forgot, at a different thrift store I spotted a somewhat early green varsity. I looked up the serial number and its a 67. It had a sprint der. made in france. Also had a rather nice miller generator light set. It was marked 20 bucks. I would think the light set is worth at least that. Are these earlier varsities worth anything? the paint was in pretty good shape. wheels were straight, nice schwinn embossed seat. another bicycle for your consideration

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A nice thrift store find posted by marc on 1/19/2004 at 10:52:45 PM
forgot to mention something else. the peugeot was a Monaco.

   Mixte posted by john on 1/19/2004 at 10:53:14 PM
marc: According to Sheldon Brown, the frame you describe is called Mixte. My wife rides a Shogun with this type of frame and loves it. No only does it have a unique look, she thinks it gives the bike a light, airy look. I have a Moto with very bad paint, and if I had your frame I'd probably put my parts on it and build it up for my daughter. IMHO, don't trash it....you never know when you might be able to use it. john

   RE:Mixte posted by JONathan on 1/19/2004 at 11:16:20 PM
The Moto might have Vitus tube set, which is good stuff. The others had "high resiliency 3040" tubing, which is hevaier, but still real good.
The Moto paint work and general finish is superb...representative of the best for its day and level. That makes for collectibility, IMHO. Those are important parameters to consider.
For ride? They (mixtes) are tight rides. I like the stiff rearends and mountain goat abilities. The one I keep for riding myself is a Peugeot "carbolite 103" internally lugged frame. I run on service roads and trails. Fun to ride.
It seems to me, that the trend is toward a "mixte" type of geometry. Makes sense to me. They are way stronger than what is called a "ladies frame". The front end is a bit springier than a double-traingle, IMHO.
The front wheel rides forward in the forks, which probably helps cushion the road, too. The "varsity" is a "must buy" when I come across any. None in the past year. They can be made into great commuters, too.
Alloy wheels and better shifting derailers and brakes make them 21st century rides.
$20 is cheap! Get that "varsity"...if it's still there.
Good luck,
JONathan

   RE:RE:Mixte posted by marc on 1/19/2004 at 11:25:54 PM
so do you think I should keep this moto mixte all original, and not strip it down?

   RE:RE:RE:Mixte posted by JONathan on 1/20/2004 at 12:38:07 AM
My Moto mixte is "GranTour" model with Vitus 186 tubing. Very light bike. Components are SunTour and alloy bars and wheels. I would use the wheels on another bike with no regret.
Taking off the cabled components is more involved, and I choose to keep it all intact. The hweels are easy to put back. The Rigida nutted wheels are probably steel rims. The Weinmanns may likely be alloy rims.
If this is the case, then I'd keep the mixte intact. The "Mirage" is a good ride. I have a "Super Mirage" with SunTour components as OEM. I would use the "Ar" on the "Mirage". You may need an adapter claw to hang it.
There was the "nobly"; "Nomade"; "Mirage"; "Super Mirage" and "Jubilee" (I think) as their progression of models. Genrally, if the paint and decals are in very good shape, I try keeping the bike intact, unless I really need a part.
If you extract any parts, make a note where they go and note installation features that might prove troublesome to recall if you refit later. I would ride the mixte, too. You may like the ride. They are not really "ladys'" bikes. I ride the "lady frame" bikes to tune them up.
They are way to "wavy" for me at 220#'s. The "Nobly" "ladies frame" is a big hit, here; mainly because of the paint job is all I can figure...and I don't try too hard either. I like the mixtes because you can step right off in an emergency...like when your dog might rip after a rabbit on the levee run!
Bottom line. I would use the wheels if you think they are better, but keep the rest intact. Just my 2 c's. Also, there are always exceptions, like when I get to 99.9% completed and you absolutely can't locate the missing link anywhere else.
The "mirage" will be a nice ride. The "Super Mirage" is the same bike, IMHO, only it has a few better components...probably the wheels mainly. Go with the alloy wheels on the "mirage". Good luck, let us know what you decide and how it works.
JONathan

   RE:Mixte posted by Dick in FL on 1/20/2004 at 3:45:28 AM
Hey, John! What more can you tell me about Shoguns? I picked one up at the thrift store for $1.95 simply to get the new tires. Once home, I noticed that it is significantly lighter than my his & hers Schwinn Suburbans. And it has a 3 piece cotterless crank and lugged construction. What level of quality/performance are Shoguns? I have already transferred the lady's Suburban handlebars and controls over to it to create a lightweight Suburban. (My very heavy man's Suburban came from the same thrift store in "showroom" condition with an interesting Positron II shifter for all of $2.95 .... near my upper limit for new acquisitions.) Am I going to like or regret the outcome of this project?

   RE:RE:Mixte posted by JONathan on 1/20/2004 at 6:11:02 AM
Shoguns are cool. I am ashamed to tell what I forked out for H & H 1979 "Suburbans". Turned out to be a boondoggle of sorts.
The ladies model was found to be quite intimidating for someone used to a Raleigh "sports". The regular framed one tops off at just under 50#'s. That's with fenders; alternator with front and rear running lamps; "shark cage" rear racks; a church bell ringer and hamdlebars that could double as a '55 Buick bumper!
Mine has the "positron" rear derailer and it has the front freewheel mechanism. Mine would take more than a handlebar transplant to lighten up to any noticeable degree. The 25 inch frame makes for one big dawg! You done GREAT with that price. Both of ours were hardly used...maybe I can understand why, after having checked them out.
The big fella grows on you and it gets out on the road, just for kicks. I feel sorry for the other one. Basically it would have to beat out a Moto "nobly" and a Raleigh "sports". That ain't gonna happen as best as I can see. I think I made a mistake, so what's new? I paid $70 American for the pair!
They sure look great side-by-side on the dirt driveway with all that chrome shining away.
Good luck, JONathan

   RE:RE:RE:Mixte posted by Dick in FL on 1/20/2004 at 6:57:45 AM
Here in flat Florida one can pedal for days without shifting so the weight of my Suburban went un-noticed until I had to lift it back onto its ceiling hooks. (The finish quality is so excellent; perhaps I should store it on the floor.) BTW: I've concluded from other posts relating to thrift store purchases that Florida must be the Sargasso Sea for old bikes. Retirees bring their mounts down here with them expecting to ride and then get discouraged by the relentless summer heat. The ones that don't get put out at the kerb end up for a few days at the thrift stores which are compelled to mark them down continuously until they vanish. Most of my paid-for bikes average $5-$6. Some of my kerbside acquistions needed nothing more than air in the tires. I have the nagging premonition that this situation of undervalued bicycles is only a temporary economic distortion, and the eventual and inevitable price/value correction is going to be eye-opening ... and for more products than just old bicycles.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Mixte posted by marc on 1/20/2004 at 7:34:06 AM
I tell you prices are getting out of hand. Prices are getting a little silly especially at the thrift stores. The moto that I bought today for 20 was only that price because it was half off monday. What really made me laugh was the murray 10 speed department store piece of 80's crap next to my moto marked at 42.50!!! Well I guess I'm glad the person who does the pricing doesn't know jack about bicycles since I bought a raleigh robin hood 3 speed for 5 bucks there at the same store. I guess it all has to do with luck.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Mixte posted by JONathan on 1/20/2004 at 7:50:31 AM
Interesting surmise of the VLW situation. Eventually, the well is going to dry up.
It's happened around here, from what I've observed. There are a lot of high-end bikes on the roads, but most are recreation riders. I've seen an increase in the small numbers of vintage lightweights on the commuter routes.
People are still pushing those MTB's, especially during the muddy season. We used to push 10 speed and 3 speed full frame bikes as kids, but that ended with the bikeboom of the '70's. The MTB's took over and, now, few people
know that a VLW will dust the MTB on blacktop. With "Fat Boy" hp tires, they'll get to near what a VLW can do at cruising speed, but there is a lot of extra effort put out to keep that up. Still the vintage lightweight is an obscure entity that gets tossed out more than ridden, INHO.
Sure makes for supporting a fun and CHEAP hobby, and useful clean transportation for most mundane tasks.
I wish Florida was closer to California. In fairness to MTB's, they are safe rides and they are easier to master. I've been running a real brute this winter and I've beeen glad a few times in the slosh.
Good rides,
JONathan
BTW, my Suburban is a "two-hander" into the truck!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Mixte posted by Gralyn on 1/20/2004 at 3:00:27 PM
Hey, from what I've seen.....that Murray, or Huffy, etc. priced at $40....they get gone, too.....even at those prices. Sometimes there's just no rhyme or reason to the pricing.....but then again, that can apply to most all items for sale - not just VLW's

   RE:RE:Mixte posted by Shoguns on 1/21/2004 at 1:03:16 AM
Marc:I'm sure some of the other contributors can tell you much more than me, but I like em. I had two that I really liked, but they were just too small. My wife is sold on hers which has QR side pulls and wheels, tange fork, etc. The cromo frame is strong yet not overweight, components are decent, and service is easy. Nothing exotic, just a nice bike. Check out http://pages.zdnet.com/mlander24/id8.html They have one listed for $300. My main ride is a schwinn world sport that I think is very similar in quality/components. john






AGE / VALUE:   A nice thrift store find posted by: marc on 1/19/2004 at 9:49:12 PM
Well I started to tell you all about the bike I found in my post about my freewheel problem with the weinmann wheel set but I'll give you a full description here. I found a motobecane women's touring bicycle which is a treasure trove of parts for me and the motobecane mirage frame I'm building. I was originally going to use the weinmann wheelset on it but then I found this beauty. It has rigada wheels, and huret drs, I was going to use some suntour AR's I had laying around but now that I've got those hurets I'll go for the all french look. These rigadas arent quick release like the weinmann's but they have the cool "M" nuts which will look extra nice on my mirage. This bike also came with an old schwinn touring bag that is going to look great on my 1951 schwinn traveler. Not bad for 20 bucks.

This ladies frame is one of those funky frames from the 70's I think. The top tube is actually two smaller tubes and the rear brake cable runs inbetween them. The paint is nearly perfect on it and I was wondering if these frames are of any particular interest or should I just send it on its merry way. I've seen a similar raleigh and even a huffy.

I also saw a ladies peugeout, the paint was almost perfect on it. It was white with blue and orange decals. The finish was very interesting though, from afar the frame almost looked like it was made of styrofoam, kind of hard to explain. It seemed rather light as well. It had rigagda wheels, I think suntour drs. Also had a peugeot water bottle. I was tempted to pick it up for the wheel set, but then what do I do with all the pretty ladies frames? It was only 20 bucks. Should I have gotten it? I think it was canadian.

your opinions will be appreciated

marc


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   A nice thrift store find posted by paul on 1/19/2004 at 10:46:57 PM
I bought($25 in thrift shop) a 1989 Peugeot mixte made in Holland back a year or so ago. It too has a white pearlescent finish. With it's long wheelbase, it rides well, is full fendered with lights, rack, pump and flat handle bars, 700c 28 Schwalbe with presta valves, called UO18 in "peugeotspeak" paul

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A nice thrift store find posted by marc on 1/19/2004 at 10:51:35 PM
forgot to mention the peugeot model name was "monaco."






MISC:   small Raleigh in Waltham, MA posted by: Lincoln on 1/19/2004 at 5:17:10 PM
Was just over at the Global Thrift Store in Waltham, Massachusetts. They have a small Raleigh (19"???, I'm not good at estimating) Super Tourer. Sticker for 531 tubing (I think that's what it said), alloy wheels, some kind of Weinmans I haven't seen before, chainwheels in a style I hadn't seen before but cotterless cranks, Huret front and Crane rear deurailleur, and a cheesy saddle. Cheesy light green color too, tho maybe it would look nicer with a little cleaning. Other cheesy feature is stem mounted shifter. Felt light when I picked it up. Most of this info is subject to my powers of recollection, as I did not take notes. It would be nice if it went to someone who appreciated it.







MISC:   Peugeot "Iseran" posted by: JONathan on 1/18/2004 at 9:49:54 PM
I have two Peugeot "Iseran" 12 speeds that look just like the picture at: http://pages.zdnet.com/mlander24/id48.html
Are these really just "AO-8"'s with a TDF name on the top-tube? One is great riding, the other is just the frame and forks. The components
oif the second bike were useless for any practical purpose. The cranks were OK, but the wheels were 26 inch, with a BMX caliper on the fromt (bent up) and a twisted side-pull Weinmann rubbing the tire on the rear.
Mongoose pegs were bolted on the rear axle. The axles were both bent, torn up races and missing bearings. It was a case.
The frame and forks are true as the day they came off the line! It was as if the frame said; "thanks", when I removed all the garbage. The "Iseran" is int. lugged (faux welded) frame tubes. These are tough bikes.
My question is where they fit in the line-up of "carbolite 103" units. I thought they were AO-8's, lacking any chrome work to distinguish from the UO-8's. Intergral derailer hanger and sloped fork crown are distinguishing features.
There was a "P-6" mentioned earlier, too. Is there a definitive diagnostic to apply toward estblishing the models?
Thanks,
JONathan


   RE:MISC:   Peugeot posted by T-Mar on 1/19/2004 at 4:48:53 PM
I tried to do some research into this matter of base Peugeot models but have have come away from it somewhat frustrated and confused. Part of the problem is that I have a mix of Canadian and USA data, and the models and introduction dates often varied between the two countries. However, here is what I have found out.

The AO8 was Peugeot's base, adult ligthweight during the 70's bicycle boom. It's was readily distinguished from other models by the complete absence of chrome on the frame and forks. Nothing new here, I think we all knew that.

Sometime in the early 80's Peugeot introduced their Carbolite 103 tubing which permitted the use of internal lugs. For a while during this period, both externally and internally lugs frames were simultaneously available. What is interesting, is that the catalogue refers to the externally lugs frames as using "103" tubing, while the internally lugged frames used "Carbolite 103" tubing. Whether there is an difference in the composition between the 2 tubesets, I can't say. Maybe it was just marketing?

Regardless, during this time period the base, externally lugged frame appears to have been a UO5, while the P6 was the base, internally lugged frame. Neither had any chrome on the frame or forks and both used claw adapters for the rear derailleur mounting.

By 1986, the base Peugeot frames were being manufactured using HLE tubing. The frames still had a lugless appearance, though I can't say if they were internally lugged or welded. Also, I can't say if HLE differed from Carbolite 103, or if it was just a name change which resulted from a marketing decision.

I have references to several base Peugeot models during this period, though Iseran is not one of them. However, based on the graphics, the Iseran is definitely from the 1984-1988 period and the name is consistent with Peugeot naming models after the famous TDF mountains. Perhaps if you can send me or post the component mix from the Iseran, then I can compare them with my specs and determine if it is not the base model.

It would be cost efficeint for Peugeot to make several models of bicycle using the same basic frame. The practice has long been exploited by most manufacturers. All you need is a different component mix, maybe different cosmetics and a different model name decal. I've never compared the frames geometry wise, but it wouldn't suprise me if an AO8 & UO8 frame were identical outside of the cosmetics. Even if the Iseran isn't the actual base model, it wouldn't suprise me if it was the base frame, dressed up with slightly upgraded components.




      Peugeot posted by John E on 1/19/2004 at 4:57:28 PM
The UO-8 and AO-8 designations were specific to Peugeot's basic 10-speeds of the late 1960s through 1970s. When Peugeot switched to internally lugged Carbolite 103, I am unsure whether the UO-8 and AO-8 labels were updated (UO-10?). Since I worked part-time at Bikecology from 1972 to 1975, I know far more about Peugeots of that era than the later models.

Side note: Take good care of that bottom bracket, since it uses a hard-to-find Swiss (left-threaded 35x1) fixed cup. The left side is a somewhat easier-to-find French = Swiss = right-threaded 35x1.

   RE:   Peugeot posted by JONathan on 1/19/2004 at 8:32:29 PM
Thanks a lot for all the good information, Tom and John E..Tom, the Iseran that is up and running was originally equipped with Sachs-Huret derailers; Weinmann "Vainqueur" cp's for brakes; SR stem and steel drop-bars; French built, alloy cranks and narrow steel rims which are not hooked-bead as I discovered in quite a rude manner.
Switching to SunTour rear der. and alloy wheels made the ride. The second "Iseran" had only the SR stem and steel drop-bars; French, alloy cranks, Lyotard pedals and stem shifters (alloy) as similar to the runner.
The clunky "Falcon" derailer like on cheap MTB's was on backwards. They managed to get one gear, which was surprising to me. The BB was in good shape. My guess is the bike was used for downhill runs on dirt roads with maybe some jumps thrown in for fun. That would explain the bent axles and the cranks were not used much the way it was setup..or at least it must have been unpleasant to pedal any distance.
The front hub and spokes rubbed a bit into the left dropout which wrecked the wheel for any bicycle uses. The rear wheel was coming apart where the hub shell meets the back of the bearing races. That wheel is gone. Despite all the abuse, the frame is in good shape! One note about the steel; the exposed metal has built up an oxide layer, which limits the rust damage. The rust is just a little surface powdery stuff.
I wonder if they used vanadium in the alloy. The derailer tab needed starightening, which is no problem with stamped steel dropouts. The runner had a broken rear derailer that jammed into the spokes. He must have felt that. I kept the derailer as a "collectible"...you never know. Why throw anything away if you don't have to?
John E., the information you provided will go a long way toward any future decisions on rebuilds. Thanks, again. I'm glad I guessed "left" on the right side!
Good ridin'.
JONathan

   RE:MISC:   Peugeot posted by T-Mar on 1/19/2004 at 10:03:36 PM
The UO-10 was definitely an externally lugged frame. It was pretty much a UO-09 with aluminum rims and few other component upgrades. The UO-09 itself was basically a UO-08 with an aluminum, cotterless crank. All three were in the line-up as late as 1979.

The replacement for the A08 appears to have been the U05. It also had an externally lugged frame with no chrome. While the crankarms were aluminum and cotterless, the chainrings themselves were steel. The rims and handlebars were also steel and the hubs used hex nuts on both wheels.

The UO5 co-existed for a short period with the P6, which used a Carbolite 103 frame, Huret Eco deraileurs, Solida swaged cotterless crankset and Rigida steel rims laced to Atom hubs (QR on front only). It also had steel bars.

JONathan's Iseran sounds very basic for the era and appears to be a development of the P6, using the new HLE tubeset. Sach and Huret merged in 1985, so the earliest your Iseran could be would be 1986, which is also the earliest year I have for the HLE tubeset. I have data for a couple of 1986 Peugeot models with Weinmann CP and Huret derailleurs but they have aluminum rims, so your model seems even more basic.

So it appears that the evolution of the base Peugeot lighweight model was A08, U05, P6, Iseran. These four models span a period of about 20 years. That would be a nice little collection to own!

Looking further at the info, it appears that all the "U" series bicycles are externally lugged frames that use Peugeot no name tubesets. I haven't come across any internally lugged, Carbolite 103 models with a "U" series number.

Here's something else for all you Peugeot-philes. I have catalogues that use both a UO 8 and UO8 designation, while a review says UO-8 and an ad says U-08. That's four different designations for the same model! So is it "you oh eight" or "you zero eight"? Once we get that straightened out, what is the proper position for the space, or should it be a hyphen? Does anybody really care? Not me!


   RE:RE:MISC:   Peugeot posted by JONathan on 1/19/2004 at 10:53:30 PM
Thanks, Tom. I had to ditch the rear wheel on the runner. It may hve been alloy rimmed, I can't recall. I must have put the steel wheel on it and then swapped later, when the tires kept blowing from the high pressure it couldn't take.
The front is alloy,and it may be the original. I got the bike before any interest in collecting. I thought it was a good bike to fix up for working out. Well, it was that, but it's funny how different we think when riding is the main focus.
I dread to think how many of these good bikes ended up dozed at the dump. Again, you are right about the model conundrum. Who cares. Actually, I revelled in my ignorance, thinking I had found a gem. Turns out it was a mundane offering, but when I think of the rattle-traps I've ridden, it really is a gem of sorts.
It's all relative, I suppose. I ask myself; "Do I really need a better bike?" Answer is; "No". Do I want a better bike? YES. That's called "collecting". Interesting to me, the best ride I have is a "Team FUJI" and it is not an order of magnitude better in ride, whereas the MSRP may have been an order of magnitude greater.
Then, I look at my '71 Schwinn "Super Sport" and it's hard to believe that it might be worth more than my "Team FUJI", if I ever wanted to sell either, which I don't. The old "beaters" are too much fun to fix up.
Thanks for the Peugeot abstract...a supplement to your , excellent, earlier descriptive post, awhile back.
JONathan

   RE:MISC:   Peugeot posted by Joe on 1/20/2004 at 10:17:08 AM
Last summer I was trying to identify a few early to mid-70's Peugeot's and had gone back to a few local shops which sold these hoping they could shed some light on the subject. I was trying to figure which models I had, especially after reading and hearing all of the various different names both here and on eBay. The way it was explained to me at least for the bikes still made in France, there was only 3 basic models offered from the local shops, the A0-8, U0-8, and the PX-10. The A0-8 was basically a U0-8 with nutted axles, and no pump pegs, and stem shifters, the U0-8 had quick release hubs, frame pump and pegs and downtube shifters. Both had serated side steel Rigida rims, steel handlebars, cottered cranks and Simplex Prestige derailleurs. Both used Mafac center pull brakes and padded levers. The PX-10 had Stronglight cotterless cranks, Simplex Criterium derailleurs, Reynolds 531 frame/forks, tubular rims, and a leather Ideal saddle.
One dealer actually had an old order sheet from 1975, it only listed these three models, along with a U0-8 mixte. Most of the local dealers had never even heard of any of the other Peugeot models. It seems that they all had sold Peugeot to about the same time, and were under the impression that Peugeot had gone bankrupt in the USA.
I was wandering if Peugeot had different importers or distributors in different parts of the US? Maybe the local distributor only handled a few models? I believe the distributor or importer was in NJ. I have also seen a one noticable variation in the few U0-8's that I have, some have a single downtube shifter braze-on with the left side being a clamp-on, while the other uses standard clamp-on downtube levers. Other than that difference, the two bikes are identical. Both are from about 1972 or '73.
I also have a Peugeot mixte that has "Record du Monde" on the seat post and shares all other components with a U0-8. It uses the upright type handle bars, Mafac brakes with Plastic handle levers, and a sprung mattress type saddle.

   RE:MISC:   Peugeot posted by T-Mar on 1/20/2004 at 8:09:33 PM
Peugeot had at least two USA importers during the early 1970's bicycle boom, Franklin Imports Inc. of New York City and Untied Import Sales of Gardenia, California. I have some documentation that indicates this was not a territorial split, but a line-up split. That is to say that each company had exclusive rights to distribute certain models and not the whole line. In Canada the splits were territorial, between Shields and Pro Cycle.

By the late 1970's the independent distributors had given way to Peugeot Cycles (USA) Inc. and Pro Cycle was granted exclusive Canadian distribution. At this time Pro Cycle also started manufacturing Peugeot bicycles for the Canadian market, with export of some models to the USA commencing in 1983.

There were definitely more than 3 models imported to the USA. The mixte U08 Joe describes is actually a U018 and was also available as a UO18C, with drop bars. The UE8/UE18 (standard frame/mixte frame) was probably the 3rd most popular model after the UO8/U018 & A08. It was basically a UO8/UO18 with fenders, racks and a light. There were also the PA10 and PR10, which were two tubular tire racing bicycles, similar to, but lower priced than the PX10. Of course these are just the adult, lightweight models. There were also several juvenile models and city bikes.

A while back, I posted a fairly comprehensive desciption of all the Peugeot models during the 70's bicycle boom era. Use the search engine to find it, if you want more info.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Peugeot posted by Joe on 1/21/2004 at 11:06:49 AM
Thanks, T-Mar, that does certainly explain the different models I see and hear about from other areas of the country, I knew the later ones were most likely Canadian but had wandered about why the only ones sold around here were all the same three basic models. I believe the order form I had seen was for Franklin Imports in NY.
Model identification of the early Peogeot's is vague since they didn't have the model name on the bike. (At least none of the ones I have seen here did anyway.) I have seen a few online which had the model designation on the rear dropout though.






AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed? posted by: Ed Worcester on 1/18/2004 at 5:50:29 PM
Greetings. I just picked up a blue men's Schwin Collegiate for $25, in great shape. It has a shimano 3 speed hub/coaster brake. I can't seem to find any info about this bike or the hub on the web. Any idea of the era (60's, 70's, 80,s) that this bike was made? Does anyone know how reliable the old Shimano hubs are? Thanks.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed? posted by Ken on 1/18/2004 at 7:21:49 PM
Ed, I'm interested too. First of all, you need to locate the serial number and date the bike using the chart on this site. I checked the Schwinn Lightweight Data Book http://www.geocities.com/sldatabook/models.html and the only year between 1960 and 1979 that a 3-speed Collegiate is listed is 1970. No specification is given as to the hub manufacturer. I would be a little surprised to learn that Schwinn used Shimano 3-speeds then, but it's certainly possible; I have a 68 Breeze with Sturmey-Archer and all Euro components, but I have also found that Schwinn used whatever was available. One further check you can do is tire size; if the tires are marked "to fit Schwinn S-6" or something like that, it's an indication that it's an original wheel. A department store 26x1-3/8 tire wouldn't fit. See http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire-sizing.html for all the dope.
From a reliability standpoint the Shimano hub is perhaps better than the S-A, and is less likely to fall between gears to the dismay of the rider. I've got one like yours on a cruiser. The coaster brake is not great, IMHO, even for a coaster brake, but it's ok for cruising.
Email me if you want. Let us know what you find out.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed? posted by T-Mar on 1/18/2004 at 7:44:24 PM
If the hub itself is post 1976 it should have a two letter date code on the hub body, wherein the first letter indicates the year (A=1976, B=1977, C=1978, etc) and the second leter indicates the month (A=JAN, B=FEB, C=MAR, etc.).

Shimano made 3 models of 3 speed coaster brakes, 3CC, 3SC and 333 Trimatic. I have trouble shooting charts, exploded diagrams and dissassembly/assembly instructions for all three models. Unfortunately, I don't have a scanner, but I'm sure we could arrange something if you really need them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed? posted by T-Mar on 1/18/2004 at 7:50:18 PM
Oops, I forgot to mention that the Shimano units seemed quite reliable. I don't recall ever having to take one apart. The pages for the charts and diagrams are remarkably free of dirt and grease, which would also seem to indicate that I never had to reference them for a rebuild.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed? posted by Ed Worcester on 1/19/2004 at 3:23:15 PM
Thanks for the replies - it looks like I need to find some serial numbers to get a better idea of it's age. It is definately a Shimano hub, but even thought the bike looks original, I guess it's possible that someone could have replaced the stock hub years ago. I appreciate the help.
- EW

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Collegiate 3 speed? posted by Dewane on 1/21/2004 at 12:08:55 AM
I had a 3-speed Collegiate just like this one. It was from the late seventies I believe.

I've heard that the Shimano was a good hub but once it goes, it's impossible to fix. It also uses grease, rather than oil in the hub from what I remember.

And mine was stolen, so if this has a California bicycle registration sticker on the downtube I'd be interested to talk to you!