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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Motobecane info posted posted by: Joe on 4/8/2004 at 7:09:26 AM
I have posted an early Motobecane sales brochure from what I believe is the ealry 70's online at:
http://bikepics.s5.com/index.html
It came from a binder supplied to the dealers back then by the distributor. It gives a brief discription of each model that was available then. The distributor was in the NY area. Feel free to save and make copies. I will leave it up for a few weeks and post other info.







MISC:   measuring BCD posted by: JONathan on 4/8/2004 at 1:07:48 AM
I have been trying to figure a way to measure the BCD on some chainrings that have cranks attached. I thought of one method. Place the crank with chainrings on a piece of paper with bolts removed. Draw circles into the bolt holes. Center the holes using intersecting lines of maximum diameter. Draw a straight line between two adjacent center-points of the bolt holes. Use a compass to find the perpendicular bisector to the line. Trace the line to beyond an estimate of where the center of the crank is located. Repeat this for the next adjacent hole left or right from the initial two. The intersection of the bisectors is the center-point of the crank/chainring assembly. Measure with a ruler the distance from the center of the crank to the center of one of the holes. Multiply by 2 for the BCD. Or, am I wrong in this definition. Is there another BCD definition? It's easy to rough out a circle by general inspection and winging it with a compass, but that would be for comparative purposes. I was looking for an accurate method. Thanks, for any advisement.
JONathan


   RE:MISC:   measuring BCD posted by Joe on 4/8/2004 at 7:08:12 AM
Sheldon Brown has a chart online with several brands listed: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gloss_bo-z.html#bcd

I also found a usefull little tool that is meant for measuring the bolt circle on car rims, it self centers itself acrossed 3 holes and gives the corresponding bolt circle diameter. It's made by Mac Tools and is called a Jiffy Gauge, I bought it about 12 years ago. It give measurements in fractional and metric. We don't have a Mac Tools dealer around this area any longer so I don't know if it's still available or if it's made by another supplier or not. It sure comes in handy for chainrings though.

I posted a few pics of it at:
http://bikepics.s5.com/photo.html

   RE:MISC:   measuring BCD posted by steve on 4/8/2004 at 3:00:16 PM
I've done it that way myself. I'd forgotten that doing geometry could be so much fun!

   BCD measurement posted by John E on 4/8/2004 at 3:31:21 PM
The easiest, most accurate approach is to measure the distance between any two mounting holes, and then to compute the BCD using high school trigonometry. Sheldon Brown uses two adjacent holes, but I prefer two non-adjacent holes, because a longer distance will have a correspondingly smaller relative error. In practice, one needs to be able to measure to about 1 percent accuracy, to distinguish reliably among the common classic road BCDs of 116, 118, 122, 128, 130, 135, 144, and 151 mm. Note also that the holes of a modern standard 130mm chainring can be stretched inward by 1 mm, to accommodate a 128mm Nervar spider. Similar tricks can be played down at 118 and 116 mm.

   RE:MISC:   measuring BCD posted by Rob on 4/8/2004 at 5:44:58 PM
It is, of course, basic trignometry... You can create a table of expected values for each of the standard BCDs, which would be the ratio of a chord of the circle to the diameter. The chord creates an angle at the centre point of the circle...gee, my last trig class was ages ago!!!...Anyway, it can be done...you would then match up what you find when you relate the chord length to the angle it creates. I think you would need a pre-developed table, because with only 5 chords, you're not going to get a very accurate real life diameter... The chord length would be from one bolt hole to the next...measured to the centre of the hole.

   RE:MISC:   measuring BCD posted by Rob on 4/8/2004 at 5:49:10 PM
I should also add that the angle the chord creates is a simple function of the number of chords in the circle...the centre of the circle being at the centre point of the spider... I hope that's all clear... :)

   adjacent-bolt chord to BCD posted by John E on 4/8/2004 at 8:03:39 PM
For a 5-bolt spider, the ratio of the BCD to the adjacent-bolt chord is always 2*sin(54deg)/sin(72deg)=1.7013. Measure the chord, multiply by this constant, and you have the BCD, as you can verify using Sheldon's table.

   RE:adjacent-bolt chord to BCD posted by JONathan on 4/9/2004 at 3:32:45 AM
Thanks. I knew there were elegant methods, which provide the necessary precision without any guess work. Thanks for the trigonmetric solution and I really like that "jiffy gauge" tool. Thanks for all the greatr info.
JONathan

   130mm chainring posted by JONathan on 4/9/2004 at 3:44:07 AM
Thanks for the tip on how to adapt a 130mm chainring using the 128mm Nervar BCD spider. I have a few candidates for that nifty trick.






MISC:   How to tell if Peugeot is "Eastern" made?? posted by: Robert on 4/7/2004 at 2:52:06 AM
On a Peugeot, if the frame is brazed lugless construction and appears to be 80's was this made by Giant or???
Has Weinmann brakes, Shimano, deraileurs, so I'm assuming it is not a true made in France" bike.

Thanks



   RE:MISC:   How to tell if Peugeot is posted by T-Mar on 4/7/2004 at 11:59:25 AM
Most likely, it is a Canadian made Peugeot. Peugeot production started in Canada in 1978 and export of Canadian made bicycles to the USA commenced in 1983. In general, the quality control on these models are superior to the French manufactured Peugeots.

I have some Canadian catalogs from the '80s, so if you provide more specifics on the components we may be able to tie down the model. Given that it is from the '80s and assuming the components are original, the Shimano derailleurs will have two letter date codes on the back of the parallelogram which can be used to date the bicycle. First letter is the year code, where A=1976, B=1977, etc. Second letter is month code, where A= Jan., B=Feb., etc.

   RE:MISC:   How to tell if Peugeot is posted by paul on 4/8/2004 at 1:40:14 AM
I have a mixte Peugeot UE18 made in 1989 in Holland if that helps your survey/ question......paul






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   libertas competition posted by: tod on 4/6/2004 at 11:07:04 PM
Anybody have much info on Libertas bicycles.. I picked up a nice libertas competition today.. pretty easy to tell that it is not high end great shape.. does not look rode much at all.. i would guess 70's.. a mix of simplex,ofmega cranks and high flange hubs.. weinman 999's.. it was so clean i had to pick it up.. not found anything it quite awhile.. no reynolds stickers or anything though.. fairly light.. not a tank by any means.. as light or lighter than my bridgestone rb-2..just looking for any info.. thanks.







AGE / VALUE:   for the rider who has everything posted by: john on 4/6/2004 at 11:01:35 PM
check item #2235768374 on ebay.....great for the display case cause I'd hate to open it!!!!


   Campag. groupo posted by John E on 4/8/2004 at 3:39:42 PM
Hey, the entire groupo is still cheaper than the first-generation Gran Sport front derailleur, which has a $1600+ price to date and a completely unrated seller! There is also a 3rd-generation Gran Sport rear derailleur with an unbid asking price of $600, making me wonder what my 1959 would be worth now if I had had the brains to keep it.






MISC:   Ernie Clement posted by: Brandon on 4/6/2004 at 9:30:26 PM
I am restoring an old european roadbike with "FALCON-designed by Ernie Clement" emblem on the front. I am trying to determine the age/origin....any ideas?


   RE:MISC:   Ernie Clement posted by Derek Coghill on 4/6/2004 at 11:17:04 PM
Falcon still exist, ask them if they can help?

   RE:MISC:   Ernie Clement posted by T-Mar on 4/7/2004 at 1:42:46 AM
Falcon was a reputable English brand that produced a wide range of bicycles. Given the emblem, it sounds like a '70s bicycle boom model. Post more details regarding components or supply pics and maybe we can be of more help.

   RE:MISC:   Ernie Clement posted by Tim W on 4/7/2004 at 8:57:23 PM
I have an old Falcon lightweight with entry-level Campagnolo parts. Not beautifully constructed, but surprisingly light and with classic British style.

Here's where you can find out a bit more (mostly see pictures):

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British/Falcon/Falcon.htm






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Mixte posted by: marc on 4/6/2004 at 9:06:17 PM
Here's the link for the pictures of this bike its in the folder titled peugeot mixte: http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/samadamsfavbrew98/my_photos

Just wondering if anyone can identify the model and possibly age. I gave all the specs in my previous post, "Luck just changed."

thanks


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Mixte posted by T-Mar on 4/7/2004 at 1:36:17 AM
Peugeot U018C, circa 1974, or slighlty later. Per my catalogs, the crankset mounted chain guard first appeared in 1974, hence my age estimate. The C designator is the "competition" version of the UO18, with a dropped racing bar replacing the flat, sports handlebar.

The curious item is the racing saddle. My catalogs show a coil spring, mattress saddle on both the UO18 & UO18C. Perhaps this was a personal substitution or maybe Peugeot went to a racing saddle later on. Personally, the racing saddle would make more sense on a UO18C, given the dropped bars.

Nice find. The condition appears to be excellent.

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Mixte posted by marc on 4/7/2004 at 2:02:14 AM
thanks for the info. When did Peugeot stop using the decals that are on this bike? Also, where in the line up was the UO18C?
Well, I can't wait to take it for a spin and see how she rides and I think my girlfriend will be riding this at Cirque. Other than that it already has a spot on the wall although I'm a bit torn, I always say that I want to ride all the bikes I collect but this one is just too pretty to ride very often. thanks again.

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Peugeot Mixte posted by T-Mar on 4/7/2004 at 2:56:39 AM
The U018 and it's standard frame counterpart, the UO8, were one step above the A08, which was the base model in Peugeot's adult, lightweight line. There were lesser models in the overall line, but they were children's bicycles or 5 speeds.

Regarding the decals, an online 1976 catalog indicates a major graphics change, but this is a foreign catalog and shows only the top end models. While it is unlikely that the domestic, low end models had different graphics, it does remain a possibility. However, I do have documentation illustrating that the graphics on the domestic UO8 had definitely changed by 1978. So, your bicycle is definitely no later than 1977. Thank-you for bringing this up.






AGE / VALUE:   Campag Gran Sport front derailleur posted by: John E on 4/6/2004 at 8:53:03 PM
Interesting item on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3670178801

Check out that price! (... and to think that my Capo came with a worn-out set of 1959 Gran Sport derailleurs and shifters ...)


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Campag Gran Sport front derailleur posted by T-Mar on 4/7/2004 at 1:45:58 AM
I need a GS front derailleur for my Legnano, but I don't think I'll be bidding on this one!






AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer female bike posted by: Lynn on 4/5/2004 at 4:15:33 PM
Would love to know the age and value on this bike. It is a female, tires 26 x 1.75, head badge (Western Auto Supply Co.)Back-rear rack, one speed, seems to be in real good condition, all original. It does have a serial number on it,
in front of the serial number it has 35 x 10. If anyone can give me some information on this bike, it would be great.
Thanks Lynn







AGE / VALUE:   Western Flyer female bike posted by: Lynn on 4/5/2004 at 4:15:33 PM
Would love to know the age and value on this bike. It is a female, tires 26 x 1.75, head badge (Western Auto Supply Co.)Back-rear rack, one speed, seems to be in real good condition, all original. It does have a serial number on it,
in front of the serial number it has 35 x 10. If anyone can give me some information on this bike, it would be great.
Thanks Lynn







MISC:   1939 Rollfast Deluxe bicycle w/light posted by: peggy on 4/5/2004 at 3:14:17 PM
I know this bike is rare, so I am curious if anyone knows what it's approximate value might be. It's a boys orange and white full size bike in good condition, all original.


   RE:MISC:   1939 Rollfast Deluxe bicycle w/light posted by marc on 4/5/2004 at 4:22:35 PM
It's hard to put a value on these bikes especially if they are not either schwinns or columbias. If you want something to gauge it off of I just sold a 1938 fleet wing men's bicycle built by roadmaster/cleveland welding company in great original condition missing the fender light for 189.00 on ebay. I know ebay is a fickle thing, sometimes prices sky rocket and sometimes they don't. The light helps the value but if you're trying to sell it you might want to find just the right collector, or you can throw it up on ebay with a 1,000 dollar reserve just to gage what you could get for it there.

   RE:RE:MISC: 1939 Rollfast Deluxe bicycle w/light posted by Rif on 4/8/2004 at 2:10:21 AM
Rollfast were built nearly as well as Schwinns D.P. Harris Hardware and Manufacturing company was one of the oldest bicycle, bicycle component and accesory, and roller skate suppliers. They started out mfg. ball bearings (hence the name). Established in 1895.
I have copies of fairly in depth history from 'Classic Bike' magazine. Let me know if you have any more questions. I don't claim to be an expert by any means but if I can help I'd be happy to.
Rif

   RE:RE:MISC: 1939 Rollfast Deluxe bicycle w/light posted by Rif on 4/8/2004 at 2:11:20 AM
Rollfast were built nearly as well as Schwinns D.P. Harris Hardware and Manufacturing company was one of the oldest bicycle, bicycle component and accesory, and roller skate suppliers. They started out mfg. ball bearings (hence the name). Established in 1895.
I have copies of fairly in depth history from 'Classic Bike' magazine. Let me know if you have any more questions. I don't claim to be an expert by any means but if I can help with information I'd be happy to.
Rif






MISC:   Another nice mountain bike posted by: marc on 4/5/2004 at 3:14:56 PM
picked up another nice mountain bike yesterday. It's a trek 930. It's a full chrome moly frame and its double butted as well as fully lugged. fork is cro mo as well. It's red and the paint is great. It didn't have the original rear wheel but it is a 21 speed with suntour components. The seat stays have trek cast into them. I haven't tried to date it yet. I was thinking late 80's but when did trek start making 21 speed mountain bikes and stop using lugs on their frames?


   RE:MISC:   Another nice mountain bike posted by Joe on 4/7/2004 at 7:38:42 AM
Marc, Try http://www.vintage-trek.com/
you might be able to email them the serial number and get a date on it. As far as 21 speeds, my 88 Schwinn mountain bike was a 21 speed, and I don't recall it being very new a system then.






AGE / VALUE:   What is it? posted by: Tim on 4/5/2004 at 12:40:11 PM
Greetings,I no good with lightweights so I thought this would be the place to come.
I just got a Schwinn 10 spd,I know big deal a Sch. 10 spd but I`ve never seen one like it. it says Schwinn but no model (Varsity- Cont.etc.)also the top bar from head to seat tube is curved,like a Sting-ray fastback.
Is this thing worth saving?
Tim


   Camelback posted by Oscar on 4/5/2004 at 7:08:28 PM
That kind of frame is known as a camelback. I think maybe some smaller sized Varsities had camelbacks. Usually on the 17" models.

I have a camelback Speedster. At least half the cool in that bike is in the curved top tube.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is it? posted by jon in desmoines on 4/6/2004 at 6:26:38 AM
I found a camelback varsity 10 speed, and swapped the 10 speed bars for some schwinn upright bars and brake handles from a junk collegiate,makes for a nice smooth cruiser,
WARNING! you sound like you might be in danger of becomeing a collector. have fun!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is it? posted by Tim on 4/6/2004 at 12:12:42 PM
Way to late- I`ve already got 47 bikes,but I`m into balloon tires. I`ve got a few m/w`s if there real nice 2 tricycles 2 Whizzers and even 1 unicycle.
More of a sickness than collector
Tim






AGE / VALUE:   1970's Schwinn cruiser "typhoon" posted by: Melody on 4/4/2004 at 6:27:46 PM
Hi, I was wondering if anyone know how much a 1970's Schwinn cruiser bike "typhoon" in worth. The bike is in excellent condition and has all origianal parts except the back tire. The chrome is in remarkable shape as well. It looks alomost brand new. It has original paint and so on. If anyone has a price range I would really like to know. Thank you
melody


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1970's Schwinn cruiser posted by From the hip on 4/5/2004 at 3:52:54 AM
Used bike shops can sell them for $50-$75.






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   nice club bikes posted by: Warren on 4/4/2004 at 10:17:40 AM
Hee's 2 I'd be proud to put my butt onto...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=420&item=2235686399

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=420&item=2235686736

Brit bike envy!!


      nice club bikes posted by John E on 4/6/2004 at 8:07:14 PM
Thanks for posting. Regarding the Raleigh, I would not expect to see radial front spoking on a bike from the 1930s. If the hub flange is steel, it is probably up to the task, but I would be very concerned about radial spokes on an aluminum flange of that vintage.

   RE:   nice club bikes posted by Derek Coghill on 4/6/2004 at 11:05:54 PM
I had a 30's Sunbeam that had a radially-spoked front wheel, if that's any help. It had steel everything.