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Archived: Vintage Lightweights







AGE / VALUE:   ARMSTRONG posted by: max on 8/6/2004 at 8:08:01 AM
I purchased an old "Armstrong" 3-speed bike from a yard sale, for my girlfriend. We are just wanting some more information on "Armstrong" bicycles. It says made in England all over it.
any info will help thanks!
Max
by: 24.21.113.132


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   ARMSTRONG posted by Ken on 8/6/2004 at 5:48:39 PM
Sheldon Brown has very little to say on Armstrong
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/english-3.html#armstrong
Read more at Sheldon's site about the Raleigh conglomerate.
In the early 60s, Armstrongs were imported for US sale by Coast-to-Coast Hardware stores, among others; I bought mine for about $39.95. It may not have been extra light but the paint and finish were very good.
by: 209.7.184.147

   RE:AGE / VALUE: ARMSTRONG posted by Warren on 8/6/2004 at 11:55:20 PM
Quite a few Armstrong "3 speeds" show up from time to time. You may get a better response to your query on the Roadsters discussion board.

There was one lightweight model called an Armstrong Moth that was of very good quality...I think someone on this list has one and could fill us in. Here's one result from google...

http://genetics.mgh.harvard.edu/'hanczyc/moth.html
by: 65.94.100.35

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: ARMSTRONG posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/9/2004 at 6:43:59 PM
Max... an Armstrong 3-speed is a decent mid-range quality similar to a Dunelt or Robin Hood in finish etc. Solid and dependable and nothing wrong with that! Armstrong were part of the big BCC (British Cycles Corp) conglomorate that was centred on Birmingham and environs: Phillips, Hercules etc. etc. Their real focus in the 1950s was on their wonderful club bikes and Armstrong's lightweights of that era were top-notch and prized today. As Warren said above, the "Moth" was the most famous of them but they had a number of others. They made the 3-speed roadsters in their sleep but dreamt of those club bikes!

P.C. Kohler
by: 208.251.223.2






AGE / VALUE:   Classic bike caught in the crossfire! posted by: Chris on 8/4/2004 at 3:34:03 AM
"Don't get the bike from me, and then get kicked out!"
Oh Crap, she's got the.....
Oh Dude!
We bargained it back, it was all she was willing to return and if she could have kept it and sold it, and not gone to jail over it, she would have! So what do you do, when you are a crazy lady in some serious need of counseling?

Angry, vindictive, no impulse control? off your meds? having a breakdown?
You break it!
How do you break a bicycle? That fork!
Oh no!, Oh yes!
Yes!
Never mind it's not yours and it's a classic belonging in a museaum!
Snap! grin!
Well, she conviently had a little accident with it and Oh, gee sorry, I "fell" over it and now it has snapped fork. Oh well! "That's what you get for leaving it here!"
I'm telling you, you never know what they will do next.
He's lost everything. Does not want to do anything just get away from her. With the neausea, rising in my throat, I held the broken fork....
I called the framebuilder repair guy, $125.00
All fixable. yes, send it. Sorry to hear about the rest of the tale but yes, send the part in!
I'm too embarrised to say the name of the bike because it did not deserve this. It's a prestigeous marque. Too fine even for my hands or his and to have this happen to it with a psycho lass was really a sorry mess I should have foresaw. He did indicate he was having trouble with her and we never thought to safeguard anything of his let alone the bike. Everything lost except the bike and a few belongings. He lost almost everything, then the truck breaks down and we chase parts till crazed, mechanic lied, repair costs go thru the roof. He's paying me back for my helping hand, I introduced him to a nice gal. They're on the beach.
He grinned at me: We saved the bike, Chris
Well, mostly.

by: 68.41.202.34


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Classic bike caught in the crossfire! posted by Oscar on 8/7/2004 at 4:15:44 AM
Perhaps some of us heard, "You love those bikes more than you love me!" I've heard it more than once, but never from a woman with a sledgehammer in her hand.

But somehow, she lost her key to the garage.
by: 65.54.98.161

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Classic bike caught in the crossfire! posted by TimW on 8/10/2004 at 11:11:46 PM
So are there any women who are VLW fanatics who frequent this site and complain that their husbands don't understand why they have 50 bikes in the garage? Is this just a guy thing?

My sweetie is sympathetic with my bike obsession, and has even memorized the names of some components so she can sound impressive (although she does seem overly interested in how much money we could make by selling some of the best ones ... )

I'm on a new mission! To promote vintage bike collecting and restoration as an equal opportunity obsession. I just don't have any idea where to start ... any thoughts?
by: 216.113.204.229






AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by: TimW on 8/3/2004 at 5:57:09 PM
I had an interesting weekend of finding unusual Raleighs. From a thrift store (Cdn $25 minus 30% from a 'scratch & win') a Raleigh Firebird. It is a road bike that appears to be similar to a Super Sport, definitely a better bike than a Record or UO-8. It has “Made in England” on it in the classic Raleigh text. It has Simplex derailleurs (can I find a date from the derailleurs?), Milremo stem (unmarked aluminum bars), Weinmann brakes and Weinmann hubs (if the front wheel is correct – rear is Shimano hub, not correct). The rims are steel, as is the seatpost. The seat is covered in denim that I need to peel off to see what’s underneath. The lugs are semi-ornate, and the finishing is a bit rough. The fork (esp the crown) is very nice, not a cheapy. There are no tubing stickers, but the weight feels as though it could be 531 p.g. main tubes.

The bike is in great shape! The paint is a very light orange with white bands & accents, and the “Firebird” text has flames on the trailing edge. This bike does not show up on the Retro Raleighs website, and I’ve never heard of it before. I checked under the BB for a serial #, and strangely all there is is an “X” (seriously). I’d like to date and find out more about this bike. My hunch is that it’s late 60’s or early 70’s, it’s certainly not from the 80’s. Has anyone heard of this model? What’s with the serial #?

I also want to sneak in another question about a non-VLW. At another thrift store there’s a strange old Raleigh bike for sale with a 26” (I think) rear wheel, and a 20” (I think) front wheel. The bike is an oldster, certainly not a lightweight, and looks like a working bike of some sort. The frame has a second cross tube below the top tube, and it has coaster brakes. It’s a beauty, and is for sale for Cdn$150. Does anyone know about this style of Raleigh bike? I’ve never seen one before, and am wondering at that price if it would be a good addition to my Raleigh collection (Competition, Super Sport, two Clubmans, Professional, 20 folder, Lenton, and my new Firebird). Should I ask about this on the middleweights page?

Thanks for any help.

by: 216.113.203.240


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by T-Mar on 8/3/2004 at 9:18:25 PM
I am not familiar with a Firebird model. Did you check the dropouts and seat tube for a serial number? I'm sure many members would like to see pics of these bicycles.
by: 64.235.205.216

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by TimW on 8/3/2004 at 9:37:31 PM
Fixing a mistake - where I said "Super Sport" above, I meant Super Course.

BTW - A web search for the Raleigh Firebird just brings up lots about Chevrolet Firebirds - not the info I'm looking for ;o)
by: 216.113.201.213

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by TimW on 8/3/2004 at 9:39:19 PM
I will look around a bit more for the serial number, but every Raleigh I've looked at has it under the B.B. I'll take some pictures and post them for info.
by: 216.113.201.213

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/4/2004 at 2:44:26 AM
Hmmm.. does sound an odd duck. I know of no machine of this name in the Raleigh range for North America. The components, especially Weinmann brakes etc., date it late 1960s into mid 70s. If it's Reynolds tubing, it would surely say so on the frame or have the remnants of the transfer. And of this vintage, it would be a Carlton-made machine most likely. Since this is from Canada, methinks it might well be a UK market Raleigh brought over from the Home Country. By the mid 1960s, Raleigh's UK line was entirely different from that offered in the US and Canada. Model names, components and liveries etc. were often completely different even if the basic frame was the same. Models we revere here in the US, Grand Prix, Gran Sport, International, Competition etc. are simply not known in the UK and there are an equal number of UK models we don't know of here.

P.C. Kohler
by: 66.44.106.248

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by TimW on 8/4/2004 at 5:19:33 AM
That's a possible explanation, P.C., but my web searches don't confirm it. I have put different variations of the words Raleigh Firebird Bicycle Classic Lightweight into meta-search engines, and nothing comes up (I have to filter out Chevys). I assume someone in England is an afficianado of old Raleigh lightweights and would post info, but I didn't even pull up one 'for sale' ad.

I looked around some more for the serial #, but still the only marking I can find is the "X" under the B.B. It has a derailleur claw, so maybe a different number is under there? I'm still open to thoughts about this bike ...
by: 154.20.144.171

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by TimW on 8/4/2004 at 8:53:24 PM
Sorry to keep adding to this posting, but I'm still very curious about this bike. I e-mailed Sheldon Brown via the Retro Raleighs site, and he suggests the same thing T.P. does, which is that it may be a model brought over from Great Britain.

I have tried again with web searches, and although British sites come up, none have anything about a Raleigh Firebird (are North Americans the only ones who celebrate old VLW's?). In addition, the bike has its original dealer sticker, which was from a small town (esp back in the 70's) called Duncan on Vancouver Island, so it wasn't brought over by an immigrant from across the Atlantic (unless it was sold second-hand, but the dealer sticker looks as old as the bike).

I will take photos this weekend, and post them. I hope not everyone's on vacation right now, and that others may have more ideas & info.
by: 216.113.201.169

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by T-Mar on 8/5/2004 at 12:30:20 AM
Even if you can't narrow down the year, you should be able to determine if it is Reynolds 531 PG or the 2030 high tensile steel. Just measure the seat post diameter. The 2030 frames typically use 25.4 mm posts while the Reynolds 531 PG frames use larger 26.4 - 26.8mm posts.
by: 64.235.199.202

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by P.C. Kohler on 8/5/2004 at 7:28:53 PM
The problem in our knowledge base of British market lightweight Raleighs c. late 1960s-1980s is that Brits don't seem to care for them very much. They are largely undocumented and ignored by the V-CC (Veteran Cycle Club) and worse, you cannot reasonably get your hands on UK market catalogures because they are invariably caught up in Chopper Mania. Anything Raleigh from the '70s is Chopper this and Chopper that or it's just forgotten.

"Firebird" just doesn't sound like the sort of name Raleigh UK or North America would assign a quality lightweight, it has the ring of a lower end youth bike to me especially if the decal has flames on it!

P.C. Kohler
by: 208.251.223.2

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by TimW on 8/5/2004 at 8:36:04 PM
I will check the seatpost diameter, but I now suspect that with a steel seatpost, it's a 2030 frame (nice nonetheless).

I had the same thought that the name & graphics aren't what you'd expect for a Raleigh road bike. You will see when I post photos that it is not a youth-targeted bike. It's too big for one thing, but it really is very similar to my Lenton Sports. It does not have "safety brake levers", and looks like an honest, entry-level road bike for someone who was serious about getting into the activity.
by: 216.113.202.82

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by JONathan on 8/6/2004 at 8:18:21 AM
Interesting that it was named after a critter. I happen to have a Raleigh "Lizard", which is probably an early attempt of their MTB department.
The BB looks BMX, the dropouts are reinforced with heavy bead front and rear; frame has fancy graphics of a lizard and the frame color is almost luminescent teal blue.
Rides like a two-wheeled forklift, but it is funky enough to be a keeper. The novel construction has me intrigued. My take? Much experimentation was hitting the floors, back then. There was considerable flux in the market.
My lizard had Beretta wheels, which weigh a ton. They were trying all kinds of stuff.
A "firebird", such as the Phoenix, may have been a fitting model designation for that period.
Very unusual model, IMHO. I would definitely keep it around long enough to see find out more about the model.
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.59

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by Ken on 8/6/2004 at 5:55:12 PM
I had similar problems trying to place a Raleigh Royale (ca. 60s 10 speed) which didn't appear in any of the Retro Raleighs catalogs. Keep us posted if you find another source, OK?
by: 209.7.184.147

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by Derek Coghill on 8/6/2004 at 8:51:35 PM
JONathan, is your Lizard fitted with those huge wide steel rims and the enormous B/B? I was working on a Raleigh this week like that; it's painted in the blue - and - white scheme that the road bikes used but is an MTB. I've never heard of a Firebird that I can remember, and most of the long-established bike shops here have gone so can't ask.
by: 213.120.56.45

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by TimW on 8/6/2004 at 9:48:26 PM
Now that you mention it, JONathon, I remember seeing at a guy's house once two late 80's Raleigh trials mountain bikes with 24" rear wheels & 26" front. Also a "one-off" design at a time of experimentation.

I will hold onto this "critter" bike at least until I can understand why it only has a "X" for a serial number. That to me is at least a bit strange. Sure wish there was some what to learn about British Raleigh model lines.
by: 216.113.201.168

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by T-Mar on 8/7/2004 at 11:37:31 AM
I've seen a Royale model in early 1980s British Raleigh cataloques, but not a Firebird. Variation in models and designations depending on the marketplace is not uncommon. During my research into Peugeot and Nishiki, I've come across variations between bicycles for the Canadian and USA markets.
by: 64.235.206.103

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by JONathan on 8/9/2004 at 7:02:30 AM
Derek, the BB is like an axle housing on a '66 Buick "Electra 225". Look on the dropouts for heavy external weld beads. They definitely did not want this guy to come apart. My brother looked at it and said; "What were they going to do with that?" Usually he thinks bikes are kind of delicate at the dropouts. Not this one. Those guys really knew how to lay down a bead, too. It has MTB everything else. I can send a pic.
JONathan
BTW, the "Lizard" rides real hard. Those huge rims can take the 2.25 tires, which is a good thing. I do not think i could break this one in one lifetime.
by: 67.118.246.106

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by Derek Coghill on 8/10/2004 at 11:46:13 PM
I have absolutely no experience of Buicks (wrong part of the world), apart from the Rover V8 that is derived from them. The Raleigh bike, however, was built like a tank. Hernia - inducing lift to the stand.
by: 212.140.119.249

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Firebird - What have I got? posted by Ioanna on 4/11/2005 at 9:36:13 PM
I come from Greece but for the moment I'm in Glasgow studying.I found a Raleigh Firebird in a flee market and i bought it very cheaply.Mine is red.I don't know much about bikes but I am also very curious in finding out what this is, cause I was unable to trace it in any Raleigh catalogue myself.Its chain is a little rusty but appart from that it is in a good condition and surprisingly it looks quite new. I'm eager to find out more, if anyone has any clue. Thanks
by: 213.121.151.206






AGE / VALUE:   Nervex lugs serial numbers posted by: P.C. Kohler on 8/3/2004 at 2:14:49 PM
I recently acquired a very nice Peugeot PX-10 frame set with a serial number 606674 which is c. 1968-69 (according to the Peugeot pages in the CR List). Indeed, this very same frame is listed on the site. But with no components, the normal method of dating a PX-10 via date stamping on the Simplex stuff is missing.

This frame has a Nervex serial number (and a long one!) stamped on the bottom bracket. Does anyone know if a production date can be discerned from all these digits?

Also of interest is a little Nervex "Professional" decal on the seat tube between "Inoxdidable" and the Reynolds 531 one; I've not seen this before.

I am building this up with components from my too small frame '72 PX-10. Anyone looking for a 22 1/2" (c. to c.) frame and fork??

P.C. Kohler
by: 208.251.223.2


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nervex lugs serial numbers posted by schwinnderella on 8/3/2004 at 4:39:15 PM
Sorry i can not help you with your questions.
I do have an interest in your frame,what is the condition and what is the price?
by: 4.131.5.235

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nervex lugs serial numbers posted by Chuck Schmidt on 8/5/2004 at 5:28:02 AM
The Nervex "serial number" stamped on the bottom of the bottom bracket is actually the angles of the spigots on the bottom bracket. If you look closely, the "serial number" includes some "°" (degree marks) in amongst the numerals.
by: 66.133.195.96






AGE / VALUE:   Fuji find Pt. 2 posted by: JB on 8/3/2004 at 4:14:15 AM
So I go to church with my mother-in-law...in the alley behind is a bike leaning next to a shed. Went back today, and the owner gives it to me...a fine, though rough, Fuji Monterey...big bike...nice Nitto stem and bars. Anyone know much about this Fuji? It had to be divine intervention!
by: 65.128.64.117


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fuji find Pt. 2 posted by Gralyn on 8/3/2004 at 11:58:19 AM
I think it's great anytime you get a free bike - especially if it's a good brand. I'm not sure where the Monterey was in the line-up.....but I'm sure someone here knows.
by: 208.239.159.254

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fuji find Pt. 2 posted by JB on 8/3/2004 at 2:10:35 PM
Like I mentioned, it has beautiful engraved bars & stem, and states in several places "Valite tubing," Suntour gearing. I have another smaller Fuji to strip parts off, and build this one up. You're right, sometimes all you need do is ask folks nicely, and they'll part with an old ride hoping someone gives it a home.
by: 65.128.64.202

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fuji find Pt. 2 posted by Gralyn on 8/3/2004 at 5:43:39 PM
The Valite tubing was good!
by: 208.239.159.254

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Fuji find Pt. 2 posted by JONathan on 8/6/2004 at 8:35:20 AM
Lucky find! They might look a bit scruffy, but those were built to outlast several sets of components. Sounds like a touring bike to me. What is the wheelbase measure? My brother runs a valite Fuji sport bike that is well balanced on the road. They take it easy on you. Are you keeping it to ride?
I am trying to find out if the "va" in "valite" stands for vanadium...well known for resisting corrosion and for strength.
by: 67.118.246.59






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike? posted by: tod on 8/2/2004 at 9:42:39 PM
trying to find some info to a mystery french bike i just picked up.. wondering if anybody might be able to point me in the right direction.. I will try to upload a pict of it later..

The bike has BCM Bocama stamped lugs.. huret dropouts with a 4 number code serial number stamped on the left rear dropout... pivo stem, huret svelto first generation derailleur.. stronglight headset and model 93 cranks.. lyotard quil type pedals.. ideale 80 saddle... weinman 610 centerpull brakes..

bike has been repainted so no stickers exist.. cool paint job with the lugs outlined in gold and other interesting pinstripping..

could be a motobecane??? are 1st gen svelto's pretty low end?

thanks for any help...
by: 67.40.50.21


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike? posted by T-Mar on 8/3/2004 at 1:40:11 PM
French components do not necessarily indicate a french bicycle. I assume you've verified the threading? If not, the easiest check is the bottom bracket. A Stronglight bottom bracket with French threads will have a six sided adjustable cup and an eight sided fixed cup with one engraved ring.

If the number on the dropout is the serial number, then the manufacturer produces very small volumes (less than 999 per year, assuming one digit is a year code). The other possibility is the manufacturer used a sequential serial number and you got a sample of early production. Either way, it is improbable the bicyle is from any of the major French manufacturers ( Gitane, Jeunet, Le Jeune, Mercier, Motobecane, Peugeot ) and will be hard to identify unless there are some distinguishing frame features.
by: 64.235.205.218

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   mystery french bike? posted by tod on 8/3/2004 at 3:28:45 PM
I just checked.. french threaded bottom bracket and a french sized seat post.. I will try and post a pict of today.. also the wheels on it are not original.. I am guessing this bike had 27's on it.. it is strange.. all of the transfers are missing on this bike.. looks to be repainted.. decent paint job but there is a Turin bikes sticker on the lower seat stay..
thanks for the info..
by: 67.40.50.21






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy Valentino posted by: Oscar on 8/2/2004 at 2:48:57 AM
I'm trying to resurrect an old Campy Valentino rear derailleur. I'm using this derailleur because I want something to handle very large freewheels - maybe 23 teeth. I'm fighting a lot of corrosion in the spring and pivots, and I don't know if this unit is going to make it.

While Valentinos are legendary for their range capacity, is there another common derailleur that can handle a 14-32 tooth derailleur. I've seen enough of these large freewheels, so I know something else must have been used. Suntour VGT?

Thanks.
by: 65.54.98.146


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy Valentino posted by T-Mar on 8/2/2004 at 1:53:22 PM
Vintage derailleurs with capacity to handle a 32T cog include: Campagnolo Gran Sport GT, Campagnolo Gran Turismo, Campagnolo Rally, Huret Super Allvit III, Huret Duopar, Shimano Crane GS, Shimano Titlist GS, Shimano Tourney GS, Shimano 500 GS, Shimao 600 EX RD-6210, Shimano 600 RD-6207 GS, Simplex Maxi, Simplex SLJ5000GT, Simplex SLJ500GT, Simplex SLJ6600GT, Simplex SX400GT, Simplex SX410GT, Simplex SX630GT, Simplex SX810GT, Suntour AR RD-4400, Suntour ARX RD-4500, Suntour BL RD-3300, Suntour Cyclone RD-6800, SunTour GT, SunTour LePree RD-6700, SunTour Seven GT, SunTour Vx RD-2400.

As you can see, there are quite a few and I may have missed some. Most of the common derailleurs came in both short and long cage versions. The long cages will handle a 32T without difficulty. In some cases, such as Simplex and some SunTour models there was nothing on the nameplate to distinguish them from a normal model. These you will have to identify by eyeballing cage length or checking the model number, which I've included where known.

The base Shimano Skylark and Eagle derailleurs would also supposedly handle a 32T cog based on Shimano's data, but in my experience I would bypass these two.
by: 64.235.206.204

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy Valentino posted by Oscar on 8/3/2004 at 12:51:03 AM
I'm impressed. I have a few of the derailleurs that you listed. Thank you very much.
by: 65.54.97.201

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Campy Valentino posted by JONathan on 8/6/2004 at 2:11:35 AM
Yes, thanks, Tom. BTW, I have great service out of a Shimano "Crane". They were a TOL derailer, IMHO, for that era.
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.35






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Iformation Needed posted by: Lee on 7/31/2004 at 3:08:17 PM
I purchased a new Steyr Clubman for $125 when living off Central Park in 1973-73. Included were 4 years of parts and labor. Bright blue with Olympic rings this was Made in Austria. Any information regarding curent value, numbers made etc would be appreciated.
by: 67.140.236.25


   :   Information Needed posted by John E on 8/1/2004 at 1:58:54 AM
The Clubman, the base-level offering of Steyr-Daimler-Puch of Graz, Austria, was comparable to the Peugeot AO-8. Steyr used old-fashioned full-length gear cable housings, in contrast to Peugeot's more contemporary brazed-on stops and open routing. The Clubman's Simplex components and plain gauge carbon steel frame tubing were unexceptional, but its workmanship and frame reliability were well above average, making it sort of the VW Beetle of bike boom era bicycles.

According to Harald Cap, the son of Capo (capo.at, no "www.") founder Otto Cap, big competitor S-D-P's peak total bicycle production (Clubmans, plus all Puch models, and a full line of children's and utility bikes) was around 100K units per year, so I would wild-guess that implies about 10K Clubmans per year.

Collectors have yet to discover Austrian bikes, although the Austro-Daimler Vent Noir is starting to catch on. Except for a sprinkling of Austro-Daimlers and a literal handful of vintage Capos, American' exposure to Austrian bikes was limited to a few 1960s Sears 3-speeds and 10-speeds.
by: 64.165.10.7

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Iformation Needed posted by Pat Lavery on 8/1/2004 at 11:20:20 AM
Montgomery Ward also imported Austrian bikes under their own house brand in the '70s. I owned one during my college days. Nothing exceptional but it was a decent bike.
by: 68.33.6.106

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Iformation Needed posted by Ken on 8/2/2004 at 6:09:37 PM
Sears too.
by: 209.7.184.147

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Iformation Needed posted by Paul on 8/7/2004 at 11:28:05 PM
I still have my Steyr Clubman, purchased in 1971 for about $100. Its green. A friend
had a gold-colored one.

In the late 1980s, I replaced both derailleurs and switched the five speed cassette for
a six speed. The bike is still humming along, though it spends most of its time on
a wind trainer. Parts are difficult to find - I'm afraid of
what will happen when the bottom bracket needs overhauling. Does
anyone know how to deal with cottered cranks anymore?

Someone is selling a varient of this bike on ebay. Its set up for
an upright rider.
by: 68.106.116.70

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Iformation Needed posted by JONathan on 8/9/2004 at 7:53:02 PM
The biggest hunt would be for the cotter pins, although they are available at more shops than I thought. The bike sounds like the Sears bikes that were Steyr-Daimler-Puch; made in Austria. They are excellent values, too.
It was when the "FreeSpirit" versions came on the scene that quality started to change; but not with the overlapped Austrian builts. My father cranked a S-D-P "FreeSpirit" everyday for years. It was 3-sp. S/A "AW" hub geared.
It is ready to go another 10000KM. mhAs for servicing the BB. The archives have quite a lot on "How to". The bearings are standard 1/4"...I think. Never can be sure until after one checks the size. Finding alloy 26" rims is tough, but I run 700C's on a '73 Raleigh "LTD-3"
(a light-duty "Sports") with no problems. Drop-bolts can be used if the Weinmann "Vainqueur 999-750" is not long enough. BTW, Sears put out a 10 sp. with Campy "GS" or "NS". Someone knew bikes at Sears. The Austrian Sears 3-sp. bikes were awesome runners. After blowing by all the Schwinns, I lost all self conscious inferiority feelings.
Of course, this would be running knocked down to bare-bones and no climbs. Tire pressure limitations was the biggest thing holding me back from catching those Peugeot PX's! Just kidding. The 3-speeds were underrated for performance. I have been looking for a nostalgic Sears, Austrian built 3-speed.
Just a couple,
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.44

   RE:: Information Needed posted by Murray on 4/16/2005 at 6:38:39 AM
4/15/05 Just bought a new NOS 70's Clubman on ebay. Seller has another identical for sale!
by: 67.49.129.116






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   sticky modolo brakes posted by: marc on 7/30/2004 at 11:19:21 PM
I have some modolo america brakes on one of my bianchis. They are the recessed allen head type. on both the front and back calipers one of the arms seems to stick after pressing hard on the levers. is there a solution? should I just go ahead and change the cables and housing?

marc


by: 68.20.29.177


   :   sticky modolo brakes posted by John E on 8/1/2004 at 2:01:28 AM
My Bianchi came with Modolo Speedy brakes, which I stupidly replaced with early-generation Campags. (The Modolos are better!) Anyway, if only one shoe is dragging, you simply need to recenter the pivot bolt. Replacing the cables, housings, and pads is not a bad idea, anyway.
by: 64.165.10.7

   RE::   sticky modolo brakes posted by marc on 8/1/2004 at 2:32:01 AM
what is the best way to re-center the bolt?

thanks
by: 68.20.24.130

   RE:RE::   sticky modolo brakes posted by Oscar on 8/1/2004 at 3:02:53 AM
Loosten the bolt just a bit to get the calipers to move a bit. Get a third hand tool or some jig to hold the calipers firmly against the rims. Then retighten them and unsqueeze the brakes. They should be centered, but if not, try it again. If you overtighten the bolt, it will tend to drag more.
by: 65.54.98.101






MISC:   bar tape from spent tires posted by: JONathan on 7/30/2004 at 7:27:51 PM
Call it; "Depression Mentality" ( before my time) or maybe "Creative Recycling" (as a euphemism) best describes this experiment. A lot of thin wall tires go bad while a great deal of tread is still very good. Today, two conditions arose that led to this idea. First, I needed bar tape, which I did not have and second I needed to replace a 25-622 tire. As I frequently use the tread portion (tire minus the bead and sidewall) for various things I usually cut the tire into chunks. This time I thought about using a whole tire tread as a friction shield when I just happened to look at the Trek on the rack with raggedy tape. Hmmm. I wondered. I carefully trimmed the tire and wrapped the bars with it as a substitute for bar tape. It looks and works great. However, I can't reccommend it without further testing...like on the road. That is the bottom line. The road is king of all tests!
OK, so has anyone tried this out? The herringbone tread on those racing tires is very nice for grip surface. I know one thing for sure. This stuff won't wear out too soon. THe tricky part is getting the end inside the bar-end. No big problem. The fact that these othrewise perfectly good tires have to be replaced and usually tossed has been a source of disgust for the cheapskate that I am. Hey, I knowe it sounds dumb. maybe it is, but it really looks kind of cool, too. One can leave a bit of the fabric for a highlight.
Don't say it,
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.2


   RE:MISC:   bar tape from spent tires posted by Pat Lavery on 7/30/2004 at 11:45:22 PM
Do you need two old tires to cover the bars or will just
one do ? It seems like a good idea , but I don't think I've
had a set of tires and bar tape wear out at the same time
by: 68.33.6.106

   RE:RE:MISC:   bar tape from spent tires posted by marc on 7/31/2004 at 12:55:31 AM
it does seem like a good idea, I imagine it looking like some of the fake leather handlebar coverings used on motobecanes, which I've always thought were cool. My only concern would be my hands smelling like rubber. I don't know if this could be avoided by cleaning the tire. would armor all do it? or maybe something like wesley's tire bleach? Can't wait to hear about your road test.
by: 68.20.29.177

   RE:RE:MISC:   bar tape from spent tires posted by JONathan on 7/31/2004 at 4:20:13 AM
One tire is more than enough to do it. O had about 10 inches to cut off. The bike had been sleeping for 10 years so the tires had started to unravel around the wall, leaving the near perfect tread as useless for safe riding. The cloth tape was white with considerable seterioration, but still useable. It looked so ratty on the beautiful paint job that I decided it detracted too much from the appearance. The brake hoods are OK, but about at the brittle stage of their service life. Again, these parts are sensitive to ozone and uv light, so they go out without any service just sitting. The brake pads are OK, but they are not gripping at 100%, due to some jardening of the material. The gumwall tires are not suitable for the bars. Thinwall racing tires are about perfect. I keep a swatch of tire in my road kit in case of a tire blowout. The section can go inside the tire as a patch, then a spare tube (also in kit) will air up with the "boot" holding the pressure. The tire wrap provides some cushion effect, but not as mushy as cork tape. I have not weighed the strip of tire tread, but it is considerable heavier than regular tape. It saves me about $10 to $20 off the cost of fixing up a bike. I have tire; tubes; brake pads; cables and housing; tape; saddle and bearings (if necessary). This all adds up fast, so if a bike cost $30 to begin with and it needs all this stuff, the price goes upwards of $100. The neat thing is these VLW's are still a great deal. They ride extremely well with minimal maintenace after this modest restoration. I can get the tire wrap real tight on the bars, too. You can really put the heave-ho while nubbing it up. I figured that I'm not the first guy to try this, but I have not heard of anyone doing it, either. I have discovered that with VLW's that anything new in bikedom has usually been tried sometime in the past. Carbon fiber frame material not counted.
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.146

   RE:MISC:   bar tape from spent tires posted by T-Mar on 8/1/2004 at 11:17:04 PM
JONathan, don't rule carbon fibre out of the VLW realm. Mossberg had a carbon fibre frameset as early as 1974. The Exxon Graftek carbon fibre frameset appeared around 1976.
by: 64.235.206.208

   RE:RE:MISC:   bar tape from spent tires posted by JONathan on 8/6/2004 at 2:16:51 AM
Well, I am NOT surprised. The road test had superb results. I taped over the ratted cloth tape that was still intact. The grip is prodigious. No major smell on gloves. Sure looks different.
JONathan
BTW, Tom. I am completely amazed at what I keep learning about these VLW's! Thanks for the information on CF.
by: 67.118.246.35






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by: J.T. on 7/30/2004 at 1:12:04 AM
I bought a race/road bike from a thrift store the other day. It has been repainted and I don't know who made the bike. It is a ten-speed with multiple Sun Tour components. It has a Shimano 333 Stem Shifter and Shimano 27" Wheels. The brakes, handle bars and front derailer are diacompe. There was foam padding on the handle bars but I replaced it with tape. When I removed the padding there were two inscriptions. On the left hand bar there was an ivy wreath. Inside the wreath it says "Japan Champion". On the right hand bar it says "KB". Anyone know wjo made the bike?
by: 67.5.136.119


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by JONathan on 7/30/2004 at 6:14:51 AM
Not too much to go on. Fins, gills and scales...what kind of fish is it? If you have names for the cranks, wheels (hubs and rims) and freewheel type and make, the field could be narrowed a bit. The higher quality Japanese imports from the '70's were: Fuji; Miyata; Nishiki; Univega (Nishiki); Centurion; Bridgestone; Panasonic; and a host of branded Schwinns. The assumption is US imports. Canada had several others. Sekine comes to mind.
Post a picture of the frame so the lug work and seat-stays are discernable. This can be matched up with known models for a good guess. The alloy "Champion" bars indicate a good quality bike. There were other quality rides, such as Kobe and Nakamura, etc., but these were fewer, at least from my experiences spotting VLW's. A serial number can be useful as gifferent makes had different number schemes and location on the frame.
Good luck, JONathan
Note: Sounds like a great commuter bike; the more generic looking the better, IMHO. Even lousy paint protects against rust.
by: 67.118.246.240

   S/N, please posted by John E on 7/30/2004 at 2:34:23 PM
In addition to more details on components and lug details, please post the serial number. Kawamura, Nishiki's framebuilder, punched S/Ns such as KS78091 (my 1971 American Eagle Semi-Pro) on the bottom of the BB shell.

The 333 indicates lower-end early 1970s Shimano components. I am guessing your bike weighs about 15kilos=33lbs. A lighter weight would indicate something better and/or newer.
by: 66.185.168.82

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by J.T. on 7/30/2004 at 5:28:19 PM
The crankset has the same KB inscribed on it. The s/n is under the crankset, KS70120
by: 67.5.140.46

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by JONathan on 7/30/2004 at 8:05:51 PM
How about "Kabuki Bridegstone"? I have a Kabuki that is made by Bridegstone. One way to see is to check the lugs for magnetic response. They used Al lugs and thermal bonding, way ahead of the times. I would check mine for serial number, but it is second tier location. Another thing is to look for "integral derailer hanger" and check for forged dropouts. This would make it a keeper, for sure.
Unless it was a Schwinn "varsity" with its unique construction, the identification of the myriad look-alikes is tough without decals and/or stickers. Unless there is a specific serial number provenance. Have you given it the test ride? The better bikes ride better, so you could then narrow it down to maybe a dozen makes.
Good luck and happy rides,
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.2

   Nishiki posted by J.T. on 7/30/2004 at 8:21:46 PM
Doing some of my own research I stumbled upon the Nishiki logo. The square with a stripe through it in the middle of the logo is inscribed next to the "Japan Champion" on the handle bars. It is also inscribed on the crankset nest to the "KB". Did Nishiki make a KB model?
by: 67.5.139.145

   Nishiki posted by J.T. on 7/30/2004 at 8:27:31 PM
Doing some of my own research I stumbled upon the Nishiki logo. The square with a stripe through it in the middle of the logo is inscribed next to the "Japan Champion" on the handle bars. It is also inscribed on the crankset nest to the "KB". Did Nishiki make a KB model? The bike rides great.
by: 67.5.139.145

   RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by JONathan on 7/30/2004 at 8:36:23 PM
I meant; "Bridgestone"! What you have desribed has me looking back to the beginning. To avoid "barking up the wrong tree", so to speak, but not to add confusion, the conclusion that the bike is Japanese based on the components is a bit of a leap. I have, for example, a Raleigh (English) '77 "Gran Prix" with SunTour components and I believe Dia-Comp center-pulls, which were Weinmann clones. Seems that Dia-Compe obtained license to manufacture the venerable Weinmann "vainqueur"'s and other, I think. The Champion bars were ubiquitous on many makes. What are the cranks? My Ralieghs have branded cranks, so this could rule out the Raleigh.
It probably is Japanese, but one needs an open mind considering the whole of the possibles.
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.81

   RE:RE:RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by JONathan on 7/30/2004 at 8:52:32 PM
Nishiki! Yes, that is a great find. I have an American Eagle three speed that is a Nishiki bike without the name. Later, they went to Nishiki as the Japanese model names became popular...and synonomous with high quality rides.
Nice work. I ride a Nishiki "Olympic" from the ;80's. Cro-moly frame and superb crfatsmanship. The ride very well, indeed. Check for forged dropouts. These look more rounded and they have a center ridge, sometimes with adjusting screw for axle alignment.
The integral derailer hanger is part of the dropout, as opposed to a detachable "ear" to hang the derailer. I would check inside the tubes for any rust build-up and, lacking any to speak of, I would fix that one up to ride all day long.
Check for a pretty full description of Nishki lineup here in the archives of "VLW discussion". You done good!
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.81

      1970's Japanese Racer posted by John E on 7/30/2004 at 8:53:16 PM
The KSxxxxx serial number under the BB just about clinches it -- you have a Nishiki or American Eagle, built by Kawamura Bicycles (KB) of Japan. Various Shimano stem shifters were used on the low-end Custom Sport and Olympic models, which also sported cottered steel cranks. (Later Olys got cotterless aluminum Sugino Maxy cranks.) If your bike lacks quick release hubs, I vote it's a 1970 American Eagle Custom Sport.
by: 66.185.168.82

   RE:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by T-Mar on 7/31/2004 at 2:37:09 AM
Some questions for John E. Given the KB bars and KSXXXXX serial number, I agree that it is an American Eagle / Nishiki. However, given that they both your and JT's frames are KS numbers and JT's is sequentially lower, wouldn't it appear to be 1971 or earlier? Assuming that, wouldn't it be an American Eagle? Assuning the period and given the engraved bars and SunTour hanger, wouldn't that narrow it down to the Kokusai model? I'm just trying to apply your past enlightenment on the American Eagle / Nishiki brands.
by: 64.235.205.189

    1970 Japanese Racer posted by John E on 8/1/2004 at 9:25:35 PM
Hi T-Mar,

I bought my American Eagle Semi-Pro in March 1971, during a dock strike, so it was presumably built towards the end of 1970, probably as a 1971 model. At the time, Kawamura offered only two models in the U.S.: the American Eagle Custom Sport and the American Eagle Semi-Pro. The mid-level Olympic and Kokusai/International were introduced in late 1971 or perhaps early 1972. The Kokusai had a straight-gauge CrMo frame, aluminum rims, and aluminum Sugino Maxy crankset, with the Semi-Pro's SunTour VGT derailleur and half-step gearing (54-48 (originally 47 on the Semi-Pro) / 14-34). All but the Semi-Pro had stem-mounted shift levers. The Semi-Pro started with SunTour downtube shift levers, but migrated to barcons about the time it got chromed rear stays and long pointy lugs and was renamed the Nishiki Competition.

If JT's bike has cottered cranks, steel rims, and nutted axles, it's a Custom Sport, probably made in late 1969 or early 1970.
by: 64.165.10.7

   RE: 1970 Japanese Racer posted by T-Mar on 8/1/2004 at 11:57:32 PM
Thanks John E. I really didn't start following the line until 1973, by which time they were re-named Nishiki and had five models. I just thought it seemed out of place to have an engraved (alloy?)handlebar on the entry level Sport. Normally, at this period, an engraved bar would have been indicative of a mid range, or higher, model.

For your interest, I have some literature showing a 1972 model called the American Eagle Road Compe. The Road Compe has the bar end shifters and chromed stays you describe for the Competition, but the picture is not good enough to determine the lug style, though the head lugs appear to be chromed. I assume the Road Compe is the successor to the Semi-Pro and the predecessor to the Competition, as my 1973 literature indicates the Nishiki Competition as the equivalent model.

By the way, just to name the exception that proves the rule, I am the original owner of a 1977 Nishiki International with a CGxxxxx serial number. And yes, it does have the 'Made by Kawamura' decal on the chainstay. So, non-K serial numbers do exist for Kawamura made Nishiki.
by: 64.235.206.208

   Road Compe vs. Competition posted by John E on 8/2/2004 at 3:29:26 PM
Thanks for the post, T-Mar. In 1972, I was working at Bikecology when American Eagle introduced the Road Compe, which had much narrower gearing (54-44/14-16-18-21-24) than the Semi-Pro/Competition, an integral derailleur hanger, and, I believe, tubular tyres. With 27x1-1/4" gumwall tyres, Randonneur handlebars, and wide range gearing (54-47/14-18-22-27-34), the Semi-Pro and the early Competitions were aimed at the touring market.

There is probably enough cumulative knowledge in this forum to assemble a reasonably accurate Nishiki database, but I can help only in the early years.

Thanks also for the note regarding S/Ns. The KSxxxxx series evidently applies only to the late 1960s and early 1970s.
by: 66.185.168.82

   RE:Road Compe vs. Competition posted by T-Mar on 8/2/2004 at 8:14:44 PM
According to my literature, both the 1972 Road Compe and 1973 Competition had tubular tires. Unfortunately, as you know, much of the old literature is not very detailled and there is no info on the gearing. Also, the pictures aren't good enough to determine if there are integral derailleur hangers.

Your mention of a Nishiki database is appropriate. Nishiki comes up often enough on this site that I have been slowly going through by old catalogues, road tests, etc, and assembling a spreadsheet of Nishiki models. Right now, I've got data on about two dozen models, but I'm sure that I will easily double that figure by the time I've gone through all my literature.

As for the serial numbers, I've had success decrypting the serial numbers on other makes, notably Miyata. If Nishiki owners think this is worthwhile, I willing to try it for their brand. Just send me the serial number, year (if known), picture (if possible),and models of major components, along with the date code.
by: 64.235.206.79

   RE:Nishiki posted by Doug on 8/4/2004 at 5:21:16 PM
I picked up a Nishiki Prestige at a yard sale but can't find any info on it. It seems to be a fairly solid bike.
Anyone familiar with the Prestige model?
by: 158.253.161.88

   RE:RE:Nishiki posted by T-Mar on 8/5/2004 at 12:37:35 AM
Yes, I that model in my spreadsheet. Probably late 1980s. The 1987 model I have specs on indicates Tange Champion #2 main tubes with hi-tensile stays and a CrMo fork. SunTour Alpha 5000 derailleurs. Does this match?
by: 64.235.199.202

   RE:RE:RE:Nishiki posted by Doug on 8/5/2004 at 11:05:52 AM
Thanks, T-Mar, I appreciate your help. The frame is Tange #1 double butted. Shimano RX-100 brakes, derailleurs and crank. 4130 crmo fork. Sakae Custom handlebars. The paint is red with white tape on handlebars. It looks like the rims need to be trued and it didn't have a tire on front. Is this a basic department store model?

Thanks again for your help,

Doug
by: 4.153.248.239

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by test on 8/10/2004 at 1:57:43 AM
.


by: 12.73.1.11


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   1970's Japanese Racer posted by Dave Fuller on 8/15/2004 at 11:14:39 PM
While looking around a very cluttered garage,I spied a bike hanging in a corner,covered in years of grime,film and tar. But I saw what were once chrome tipped forks. "If you can use it you can have it, it's been hanging there for twenty five years" the old fellow said. That was August 11 '04.
The 12" long seat tube decal says "Made by Sekine Canada Ltd." After lots of cleaning and polishing,I found:62cm frame in nice cond., pretty mid green,in full lug const/w
Tourney brakes by Shimano
Finger Tip shifters by Shimano
GTO Thunderbird front derailers by Shimano
Lark SPD rear derailers by Shimano
SR crank levers,stem, and bars w/ SR Sakae Custom and Road Champ, both enclosed in wreaths.
Wheels by ARAYA 27x11/4 WC HP Japan,in beautifull lustrous chrome.
Hubs are Shimano,front TA, rear 333 and a large 2" wide chrome ring between the 5 speed cassette and hub, with SEKINE relief arond it. Ser. no A3 8618 Green,nice bike.
by: 24.69.255.204

   Nishiki Tange Number One posted by Swarna Duttagupta on 10/1/2005 at 4:19:58 AM
I picked this up from a person whose brother claims he paid around $1400 for this bike. It is yellow and green and is fit for somebody of a 6'+ height. It has gear levers on the lower main body bar, where you attach a bootle holder.

I could use some info on this bike and the approximate value in dollars and its vintage value/rating.


by: 71.10.226.107

   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS: 1970's Japanese Racer posted by G-Man on 7/2/2006 at 11:11:32 PM
I recently aquired a Nishiki Competition road bike from a friend of mine. His grandfather bought it some time ago and never rode the bike. This bike is as original as they can get.
Hardware goes like this:
Serial # KS195805
Compe Forge/Gran Compe stem
Sugino Mighty Competition 54/48 cranks
Suntour GT rear & Suntour Compe V derailers
Araya 27x1.25 steel rims/quick-release hubs
Kyokutp Pro Ace pedals
KBZ (Japan Champion) stamped handle bars
Can anyone tell me what year or anymore info on this bike? I am thinking of restoring it and using it as my road bike.
by: 68.186.12.135






VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn World Sport and Schwinn Sprint posted by: Gralyn on 7/29/2004 at 5:22:09 PM
I picked up another Schwinn World Sport today.....ChroMO frame, alloy wheels, alloy cranks. How many of these have I picked up? Anyway, there was also a Schwinn Sprint. It looked like a regular lugged high tensile Taiwan frame. Chrome wheels (bolt-on), steel cranks, stem shifters.

Where did the Sprint fall in the line-up? It just didn't look like anything at all special....
by: 208.239.159.254


   RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn World Sport and Schwinn Sprint posted by Bryant on 7/30/2004 at 10:53:06 AM
Yeah, I've seen the Sprint also and wasn't terribly impressed, especially when compared to the World Sport. According to the pricing from the Schwinn LWDB, the Sprint fell out below the Varsity but above the Sportabout.
by: 198.26.122.12

   RE:RE:VINTAGE LIGHTWEIGHTS:   Schwinn World Sport and Schwinn Sprint posted by Gralyn on 7/30/2004 at 11:53:15 AM
Yes, it appeared the Sprint was very low-end. I guess I picked up the World Sport - thinking I will re-build it and sell it to help fund my hobby. Right now, I have at least 6 bikes - dis-assembled down to the frame - that I need to re-build and sell. (Really, they take up less space when not assembled as complete bikes - and I'm totally out of space).

After getting this World Sport.....I stop by another thrift store - and I spot one of those Peugoets....no model name on the bike - but looks to be early 80's....Rigida 27" rims, Maillard helicomatic rear hub, 103 carbolite frame, etc. I had one like it - and sold it. I already have 2 of them I need to sell. This one is the same color exactly as one I already have - though it appears to be maybe a year or two older.
by: 208.239.159.254






AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by: TimW on 7/28/2004 at 11:43:03 PM
I have posted about this bike before, but just made a new discovery about it. I have converted an old Steve Bauer frame (late 80's that came with early indexed Shimano drivetrain)into my comuter and tourer. It's a lugged & butted Tange 900 frame (seamed tubing, I'm told) that is a very responsive and SMOOTH bike to ride (though its BB is a bit too low for safety).

I was looking at a tire shop across from my work, and noticing the Bridgestone logo on their sign is the same logo as on the seat tube of my bike. So, I guess Bridgestone built Steve Bauer bikes. Does anyone know any more about this? I know Bridgestone has a good reputation, but don't know where Steve Bauer frames fit in.
by: 216.113.204.229


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by T-Mar on 7/29/2004 at 3:20:54 AM
Outside of the fact that they are both a capitalized B, there is little resemblance between the Bridgestone and Steve Bauer emblems. The Bridgestone emblem is italic, while the Steve Bauer is not. The Bridgestone emblem is a two-tone letter(red and black) while the Steve Bauer is single tone (red in my samples). The Steve Bauer emblem is superimposed with a diagonal, white lightning bolt, while the Bridgestone emblem has a straight, white line that runs from bottom left to upper centre and then 3/4 down the centre axis, sort of like a check mark that has been rotated through 180 degrees.

The Steve Bauer frames, at least in the beginning, were made in Japan. The only excpetion was the top model, which was built in Canada.
by: 64.235.205.204

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by TimW on 7/29/2004 at 5:30:04 PM
Well, T-Mar, you seem to have sharper eyes than mine. I'll have to take my bike to the tire store and do a direct comparison. I think there is more than "little resemblance" between the two logos, but it sounds like you are right that they are different.

So if Bridgestone didn't make it, does anyone know what Japanese company actually built the bikes for Steve Bauer? I assume they were farmed out to an existing maker.
by: 216.113.203.113

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by JONathan on 7/29/2004 at 9:55:28 PM
Bridegstone estabished a division for bicycles in the US. It would not surprise me if they built the frames. The RB-1 was a racing machine that had great appeal for it's high value for the price.
Just a guess,
JONathan
by: 67.118.246.170

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by TimW on 7/30/2004 at 5:58:19 PM
I'd love to believe it's a Bridgestone frame, but it could have been built by Kawamura (big Canadian connection given all the Nishiki's here), or some other Japanese maker. Unfortunately, the only clue is a TINY, non-descript "made in Japan" sticker.

I welcome people's guesses, but if anyone knows more, I'd love that info. There seems to be very little info about Steve Bauer bikes, although they rank as a decent to great Canadian/Japanese VLW. T-Mar: You mention the top model was made in Canada - do you know more?
by: 216.113.202.239

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by T-Mar on 7/31/2004 at 5:30:48 PM
Tim, pretty much everything I know on the history of Steve Bauer bicycles was posted in my response to you last fall.

While it's possible that your Steve Bauer was made by Bridgestone, it is unlikely. If I recall things correctly, your bicycle uses Tange 900 tubing and Bridgestone was using Ishiwata on their road bicycles during this period. Most Japanese manufacturers were highly automated in the late 1980s and very conscientious about quality and optimizing the manufacturing process. This is best done by sticking with one tubing manufacturer. Even better consistency can be obtained by using one tubeset per manufacturing line. Using a single source also keeps the tubing cost down via volume discounts. So while it's possible, I doubt that your bicycle would have been manufactured by any of the companies favouring Ishiwata tubesets.

By the way, the reason I was so familiar with the differences in the two logos is that I have a Steve Bauer headtube decal staring me in the face every day and I have applied several dozen Bridgestone logos to model race cars.
by: 64.235.206.117

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by TimW on 8/3/2004 at 11:28:41 PM
T-Mar. You have a good memory, remembering the info you gave me last fall about the same bike. And, you have good detective skills, infering from the type of tubing that Steve Bauer bikes weren't made by Bridgestone.

My wife's Nishiki International is exactly the same tubing, so maybe that was the same maker (Kawamura, I think). I guess I may never know more about the bike, unless maybe I try to track down Mr. Bauer himself! Don't think I'll take that on!
by: 216.113.203.173

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by TimW on 8/3/2004 at 11:32:05 PM
T-Mar. What Steve Bauer bike to you have - is it the Canadian-made one? What components did it come with?
by: 216.113.203.173

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by T-Mar on 8/4/2004 at 4:05:36 PM
The top line Steve Bauer replica, 1987, came with Campagnolo C-Record. Later models may have come with Dura Ace, as the bicycles were meant to be exact replicas of what Steve Bauer was riding. Steve rode the pro team bikes while he was in Europe, but used his own brand when competing in Canada at such events as the Grand Prix des Ameriques and the Foster's Grand Prix.

BTW, I do not own one of these bicycles. However, I do have a large, poster size photograph of Steve on one his bikes which I took in the late '80s at one of the Toronto races. It's adjacent to by workbench, so it's pretty much etched into my memory.
by: 64.235.199.53

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   My Steve Bauer is a Bridgestone? posted by brian on 8/8/2004 at 2:38:46 PM
hi, recently bought a steve bauer canadian bicycle used, jjust wondering what all the fuss is about?
its got a white B with a lightning bolt diagonally through it on the front jjust under the handlebars.
any thoguhts?

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MISC:   More enhancements to OldRoads.com posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 7/28/2004 at 12:08:05 PM
In addition to enabling pictures on our Discussion Areas, we're also adding a new file upload section. This is similar to our Picture Database, but it allows files of all types (not just picture files), and serves up files more quickly than our Picture Database.

Here's the link:

http://oldroads.com/oldroads_file_upload.aspx

by: 172.200.187.155







FOR SALE:   Peugeot-Tommy Simpson T-shirt posted by: Chuck Schmidt on 7/27/2004 at 9:20:55 PM
AD: Peugeot-Tommy Simpson T-shirt

I've had requests over the years to make a Peugeot T-shirt so here it is for you Peugeot and Tommy Simpson fans; a Peugeot team photo taken in 1965 (the year Simpson won the Worlds).



The image is a very durable high resolution heat transfer applied to a pre-shrunk 100% USA cotton heavy-weight T-shirt. Available in all sizes and the following colors: black, dark grey, light grey, dark blue, medium blue, light blue, dark green, medium green, light green, red, orange, yellow orange, yellow, purple and white. Please state a second color choice in case your first choice is unavailable. Price is $22 shipped anywhere in the world.

Ordering instructions on my web site at http://www.velo-retro.com

--------------------------
Tom died 13 July 1967, near summit of Mont Ventoux, on Stage 13 Tour de France. His last words were "Put me back on my bike." One of his team mates was a very young Eddy Merckx.

PALMARES: 1961 Tour of Flanders, 1963 Bordeaux - Paris, Manx Trophy, 1964 Milan - San Remo, 1965 World Pro Road Race, Tour of Lombardy, 1967 Paris - Nice, 2 stages, Vuelta a España, Manx Trophy.

Fan site:
http://townsleyb.members.beeb.net/procycle/simpst.htm

Tom Simpson by Owen Mulholland
http://www.torelli.com/home.html?http://www.torelli.com/owen/simpson.html&1
---------------------------

Chuck Schmidt
South Pasadena, Southern California


by: 66.133.195.96



   RE:FOR SALE:   Peugeot-Tommy Simpson T-shirt posted by Chuck on 7/27/2004 at 9:49:37 PM
Photo at:


by: 66.133.195.96