| Were horizontal dropouts intended for use with either derailer gears with chain tensioners or single sprocket setups (one-speed, fixed, Sturmey, etc) ? The current fashion of vertical dropouts that make wheel placement a no-brainer seems much more appropriate for derailers.|
| I think the advent of 18/21/24/27/30 speed derailleur systems (where will it end!) made horizontal dropouts seem unnecessary. Single speed, fixed or internal hub geared bikes with horizontal drops would allow you to accomodate a large range of cog and chainwheel combinations without having to shorten the chain. Vintage club and race bikes often ran flip flop hubs with different ratios on each side, requiring a shift in the axle position. Also, early derailleurs were not near as refined and also worked better when the wheel was adjusted to a preferred position. |
Todays drivetrains are idiot proof but not the most flexible. Think touring...you're out in the boonies, have an accident and trash your rear derailleur. You take your little portable chain tool and now you have to try and shorten a chain to a fairly exact length to run your bike single speed to the next town without dropping the chain. Tougher to get right with vertical dropouts. They do keep the wheel in position and relieve stress on the axles, bolts and quick releases but those issues were solved a long time ago. Frankly, I think they are no real improvement...horizontals worked just fine for decades...no reason to change them that I can see.
| Well said. I still like non-forged (stamped) dropouts mainly because they can be bent back after a mishap and they allow for some lattitude in axle adjustment for various reasons that may arise; especially when a replacement wheel is not conveniently located. Also, different size tires are easier to fit out. MTB's have vertical dropouts, on all mine anyway, for rigidity and strength. I can't see the advantage of verticals in a touring bike which won't get punished off-road like an MTB.|
JUst my 2.
| Well I found something at the local thrift this weekend that will keep my interest. Picked up a Peugeot Mixte in good condition for $10 at the Goodwill. Haven't torn it apart yet, but the thing that caught my eye (beside the Peugeot name) was the smallish handlebars. They are small cruiser bars that are slightly dropped at the ends. Gives the bike a racing look yet still not as off putting (to some at least) as the drop bars. The brakes are Peugeot branded Dia-compe or Weinmann centerpulls, Suntour Stem Shifters, Atax stem, Cottered cranks, Suntour Honor rear der, Simplex front der, and only front wheel is quick release. Any ideas on the year of manufacture?? I believe the model was a Grand Sport but will have to check again.|
| The short handlebars were fairly common on the French and Japanese mixte frames.|
| Got the same setup on one of mine, except it has all European components. Look for "tube special allege" sticker to place it in the '70's. I'd guess late '70's, as that's when the Japanese components came on strong, but the bike-boom placed a lot of pressure on makers of European bikes to opt for Japanese components to meet demand. This could push the date back to mid-70's, if that was the case for Peugeot low-ends. You have externally lugged frames in the '70's, too. Internally lugged and "carbolite 103" sticker is likely an '80's bike, BUT the cottered cranks were a bit obsolete by the '80's. Maybe the owner swapped a few parts, but left the cranks alone. A good dog-runner bike, as you can bail in a hurry, if needed; like when Rove zeroes on a rabbit. |
| Sounds like a Carbolite 103 tubed frame. I have a Grand Sport in a mens frame. I've seen some confusion here about whether or not the Carbolite 103 was built with external or internal lugs. I have two with external lugs and two with internal lugs, so I think every everyone was right!|
| I've got a Schwinn Voyageur 11.8 with some sentimental value, and I'd like to keep it if at all possible. However, the stem is just too short. It's an 80 mm stem, and I need a 100 mm stem ideally. The big problem is that this stem is a .833 stem, AKA a 21.15 mm quill. They just don't seem to exist anywhere. I either need to replace the stem, replace the fork so I can get a stem that fits, or replace the whole frameset. Any ideas or advice? |
| That is really weird! As I also have an 11.8 frameset, I checked the fork (Tange, no-name forged tips) with several english and french stems with no luck. The only stem that would fit was a "flat-top" "S"chwinn stem from a 70's Sports Tourer. I have two of these stems and they are both about 90mm. Anyone know if they came in different lengths?|
Scott, as the 11.8 are great rides, rather than change fork, I'd turn-down a stem of your choice to fit (I hope you're not a lawyer)...and thanks for bringing this obscure factoid to our attention.
| I have a Schwinn with round Schwinn Japan headbadge which I concluded must be a Voyageur from the equipment , which included Suntour friction bar end shifters, although it had no down tube or top tube decals- nice all chrome frame with forged dropouts. It has a polished alloy stem with an S on each side, which I believe is the .833 diameter. I like short stems - let me measure mine and get back to you about a swap.|
| Anybody familiar w/a 3 speed sturmey archer moustache handlebared bike, probably mid '50's to 60's made in France, Red Flash on the head tube, (Decal)|
| Since I had some minor flooding in my basement, I'll gloat about this. Lot's of basements flooded around here with the recent rains, so folks are cleaning them out. Today I picked-up on the curb:|
a Zebra Junior Racer, 24 inch wheel, Japanese-made kids road racing style bike, Suntour group components, a little grime and surface corrosion, but nothing too bad, virtually no wear on the tires, and no dry rot. By next spring my kids will be big enough to ride this.
A Fontan, made in France, a bit more ragged than the Zebra, but at a quick glance should be road worthy without too much effort. Anyone know anything about these? all I've been able to find is one reference to them having made a PX-10 knock-off. I haven't looked this one over too closely yet, it's still in the back of the van, the garage is overflowing with bikes.
Yesterday I picked up a pretty dirty, but salvageable Takara (Suntour group components) and a classic Raleigh english roadster 3-speed with decent Brooks leather saddle.
The day before, a very solid Fuji Supreme (also Suntour component group) Anyone know the exact year or years for this? Also, a Robin Hood (raleigh-made) with S-A 3 speed coaster brake.
| Way to go! Since you can make good with repairing these, I would take them down for more compact storage and keep track of what goes on what. I take pictures of the setups so I can return to original state if desired later without any guessing. Work them one or two at a time or as needed. The roasdster bikes with SA hubs are showing up a lot as commuter bikes wired to poles and rails on the street. The riders must have scrounged these up from various sources...definitely not LBS's!...as some adventurous types have spotted how great they ride and opted for the comfort and, as you have so well described, economical aspect. The hubs last a long, long, long time with just a few squirts of 30wt now and then when might you think of it. The "Supreme" was '70's, I think based on what mine has for components and the Fuji "Valite" pipes. I can look at mine again (it's in a shed) to see exactly what it has. Kind of a tank, but nothing like my "sports 12", which IS a tank, but good running tank; like a Schwinn "varsity" for robustness, except it handles better. I have seen nothing at the usual charity stores except beaten down junk. You done great! |