| I know when you read the title of this post you probably immediately thought of the gas pipe record in team colors but that's not what I'm talking about. The bike I just bought is painted in the team colors, says "TEAM RALEIGH" on the top tube and "RECORD" on the downtube but it's a full reynolds 531 frame and fork. It has campagnolo dropouts, chrome on the front fork which is not a sloping crown. It has workshop serial number dating it to 1979, it's not an Ilkeston serial number, it was built with the other carlton models. I don't know if any of the parts that were on it are original. Campy:headset, BB, cranks, brake levers, NR derailleurs and shifters, pedals. It also came with these parts which I know are not original: dura ace stem, early dura ace hubs with oil port holes and covers laced to arya aero rims, and gran compe brake levers. The frame has eyelet braze ons, also a cable stop on top of the chain stay. It has the remenants of a made in england decal with union jack and TI logos, also has a 1978 TDF decal above the shifters. Does anyone know what the heck this is? Was this a specific model raleigh offered? was it just a frameset? What level do you think it is? Is it a pro simply painted in the team colors rather than an exact team replica? Someone suggested that these were on par with the competition, I disagree. Why use campy dropouts on a competition especially in 1979 when you could have used shimano or suntour. I rebuilt the bike and rode it and it's a great ride. It's fast and handles very well, it corners like a champ. I also took it up a steady climb pretty hard and was suprised at how little flex the bottom bracket had, especially for a 60cm frame. That's another thing, it's a 60cm seat tube, with a 21 1/2 inch center to center top tube which is the same lenght as the top tube on my 1973 55cm blue raleigh pro. That seems like an odd frame size to me. Wouldn't you expect it to have a longer top tube? Could this be some custom order? any opinions or info would be greatly appreciated.|
My 80-81 Competition was built with Campy dropouts fore and aft. That's all the help I can offer.
| I'm an iddiot, I forgot about the competition gs. I own the older version with french parts. |
| I have a chance to get one of these bikes in good condition. What is it worth? Is anyone interested in buying this bike?|
| I saw one of these bikes for sale on Ebay a while back and, in my humble opinion, the bike is department store quality. Remember, I am talking about the one that I saw on Ebay. Your bicycle might be completely different. If you wish to estimate value it might be a good idea to list the components on the bike, make mention of the type of tubing(identified by a decal or sticker) and even include a picture or two. If it is similar to the bike I mentioned, I would definitely pass since the bicycle is anything but quality. However; there is the remotest possibility that, in the future, it might have some collectable value(I doubt this very much, though). Anyway, I hope this has helped a bit and feel free to identify component groups so that others can better help you identify value.|
| Allow me to preface by stating that I know the bike isn't really worth anything, but I like it--it's my first vintage, first road, and first French bike, and in the short time I've had it I've become quite attached. This is my daily beater bike, I'm riding it around Manhattan. |
First, the pictures, linked for size.
It's kind of a frankenbike, the guy I bought it from replaced some things--it's got a Suntour derailleur, the handlebars are clearly not original, one of the cable housings has been replaced, and one or two other telltale signs. I replaced the seat--I'm a rec rider, comfort is important to me. Serial number is 2203265, which from my googling leads me to believe it's a 1972 bike (7 digit SN with the first being the year) but I know nothing else about it. L16 is also stamped into the frame to the left of the SN plate.
Now, the question. The bottom bracket fell apart while riding. I was able to get one cotter pin out, but even after many hours with penetrating oil, a hammer and tap, liberal application of profanity, and a power drill I was not able to get the other one out. As such, one cup, the axle, and the crank arm are still stuck and quite beaten up. I think I'm going to have to replace some or all of them.
Can anyone help with IDing the model, and possibly what parts will fit correctly? I've seen one or two places that have old French parts, but I have no idea what I need.
| Interesting bike! The frame is definitely an early 1970s UO-8, which would have had downtube-mounted shifters before 1973 and stem-mounted thereafter. I am VERY surprised to see low-flange quick-release hubs; the AO-8 came with nutted low-flange hubs, whereas the UO-8 came with quick release high-flange hubs.|
As to your bottom bracket, I would replace the entire assembly, upgrading to an aluminum crankset. Your BB cups are definitely French-threaded, 35mm diameter with mm-pitch clockwise (RH) threads on BOTH sides.
| The wheels and releases may not be original--the flea market guy who sold it to me told me that the wheels are aluminum, but from what I can see the lower end bikes came with steel wheels. If I try and stick a magnet to the wheel and it won't stay, does that mean they're aluminum?|
I'll get the name off the releases. They're definitely old, but possibly not original.
Any favorite places to shop for those parts? What kind of crankset will I need?
Thanks for the help!
| If you're committed to replacing the crankset (good idea) then keep on with the drill with hardened bits and a couple of punches. When it comes out, keep the cups and replace the rest with cotterless axle, new bearings and crankset. Most any generic older crankset will work with the right axle. Ask your local LBS for help acquiring these parts...do not buy new. If they say they can't help you then move on till you find someone who will.|
| The ID# was on a plate? That stopped before the bikeboom...or at least very early '70's. I have a couple of UO-8's and -18's with same paint and decals with half-chrome stays and forks. Real nice riders, they are. The bottom bracket needs a Stronglight or Nervar cotterless crankset with the "right-hand/right-hand" French threading.|
The cottered cranks are pretty tough to pop, especially if the last guy jammed an English or Italian pin size as a replacement. Sometimes the pin gets bent up inside where the threaded end meets the body of the pin. This will score the inside of the crank hole and further jam it. I wear a face-shield when pressing the pins out using a very strong (read; "vintage") small forged-steel vise and a 14mm socket as a relief on the rounded end of the pin. There are special tools that are design-specific to this end, but IF your local shop can spring it loose for you, that's the best way. Just stand in the other room! The shops around here have not seen a cottered crank in a long time, so I work it out the hard way using my makeshift setup...it works, but it's not for the timid.
| First, let me say that you guys are amazing. Should I fire up the old blowtorch to try and get that pin out? If I'm going to replace the set I suppose it doesn't matter too much as long as I get the cup back. |
I volunteer at Recycle-A-Bike, they've got me repacking bearings, overhauling hubs, truing wheels, fixing headsets, and the like. They loaned me a chainring/arm and mismatched crank arm as well as a Japanese made adjustable cup--but it doesn't seem to want to hold, there's still play in the crank even with the cups tightened all the way down. It backed itself out again, and unfortunately I don't have the toolset at home to fix it.
I think the whole thing needs an overhaul, but it's still pretty good for a flea market bike. I'm loving riding it (so much faster than my old hybrids).
SN is indeed on a plate on the bottom, wheel quick releases and hub have 'SANSIN' on them, brakes have 'MAFAC "Racer"' on them, frame has a little decal on the seat tube just below the top that reads 'tube special allege peugeot', the derailleur is a Suntour, wheels seem to be aluminum (magnet doesn't stick at all), two mismatched Panaracer tires (one is Dual, the rear is 'Tour Guard'). Anything particularly special or worth keeping? Is any of it even original?
Any favorite shops in the NYC area? I went to one (Gotham Bikes) and they pretty much spit on me.
| I thought it would interest you to learn that contrary to both our expectations the LBS hereabouts sees and services cottered cranks routinely in the form of fitness training equipment they sell. I discovered this while attempting to purchase the ancient VAR cotter pin press they had hanging in their service area. They had a great assortment of pins as well.|
| As of 1973, Peugeot was still using riveted plates for serial numbers. The inwardly-curving quick release skewers were mandated by the CPSC circa 1974, to reinforce proper operation.|
I suspect the Japanese cup you are trying to use is thin-walled, whereas the original French cups are thick-walled. Thin-walled cups accommodate spindles whose bearing races are farther apart than those designed for thick-walled cups, although you can sometimes use an Italian spindle, designed for a 70mm BB shell and thick-walled cups, with a 68mm BB shell and thin-walled cups.
| Interesting...I've read on another site (bikeforums.net) that the original cups were thin-walled where the Japanese cups are thick. (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/velos.html). Which is true?|
| Try to find Sugino "5-S" spindle. It's for Italian BB and yes, they have them for cottered cranks...for the purists. I have some French built cups that are thin x-section...compared to my Japanese bearing cups; except the cottered-crank cups may be thicker. I'd have to measure one, but the cotterless units that I've got look thinner. I doubt those wheels are original. Most had the Rigida "chromix" or "deluxe chromix" (nibbled rim faces) rims onto Normandy hf hubs. All mine came that way. A quick swap to Araya hp rims (hooked-bead) will transform the ride into something great...and safer due to superior braking. Swap those pads for salmon KoolStops and you're right up there with the best of lot. It's really marvelous to show the speed these bikes fathom against the new stuff; excepting the pure-bread road racers. BTW, looks like you have an "AVA" stem on that one. I'd get rid of that for a decent stem. Sand a Japanese SR to fit if you can't find a French make. I have Pivo and Atax stems on some of my French models. Good luck.|
| Regarding cup thickness, I may well have had a dyslexic moment. Whatever Sheldon says regarding thin versus thick BB cups is probably accurate; the man is a stickler for details, and I rarely, if ever, find errors on his website.|
| Nice old bike and I agree about the ride. These old French bikes do ride quite nice. That said, I have several old Peugeots, very similar to yours, and I have plenty of spare parts and they are absolutely original and in good condition. Additionally, I can easily supply you with a good alloy crank set and appropriate bottom bracket and the crank set will even bear the Peugeot pantograph. If you get me a list of what you need, I will do my best to help you out.|
| Thanks very much for your reply on oldroads, I'm really excited about this bike. If you want the honest truth, I'm not really attached to anything but the frame, and maybe the MAFAC brakes, they seem to be the only original things on there. I think I'd like to keep this one with a freewheel on it, although I'm scouting another bike for my first fixed experience. I'd be interested in almost anything you have, especially replacing my AVA stem of death and my BB. It's an around-town bike, I don't think I want drop bars. |
Here's a list of things that need to be upgraded/replaced, in priority order.
2. Brakes, the current ones have no stopping power. I might keep the brakes and just replace the pads.
3. AVA stem
4. Seatpost, I have a seat (body geometry) that I like but the seat post is the wrong size--it's currently in the seat tube with a spacer.
5. Wheels/tires? They seem to be OK, don't know what new ones will get me.
6. Bars? They're bright chrome, don't really fit with the rest of the bike.
The derailleurs need adjustment, but I think I'll stay with the friction shifters. Cup and cone is fine with me, although everything (including the chain and wheels) could stand a good cleaning.
Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it.
| Good Service|
| Hello, I have a Black and White Schwinn Wasp it is in very good condition except for a few dents and rust stains. All parts are original and I'm wondering how much it will go for.|
|This is a great site, we're glad to have found it, unlike the search we have been doing to identify this old bike. It's a 26 incher according to the tires. The face plate has the name "Nonpareil" and in smaller letters, "Nonpareil bicycle works, St. Louis USA". Can anyone give us any info on it's age? Is it a lightweigh? Is it worth anything? It's been stored on a garage wall.|
| I also have a nonpariel bicycle, mine is a heavy weight. I have found through people that these bikes where sold through hardware stores. Mine is actually a Schwinn DX modle frame dated 1937. I think they used all brands and put their headbadge on. Hope this helps. |