OldRoads.com

This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
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which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

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which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: Musclebikes (Sting-Rays, Krates, Choppers, etc.)







AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by: Robert on 1/18/2002 at 5:14:54 AM
Hello fellow bike fans. How about some feedback by those in the know. I just picked up the fore-mentioned bike for $400. tonight. It was repainted violet and decals applied then shot with clear. Most all parts* were included in deal, but rechroming and cad plating will be needed with exception to the rims. The polo seat was redone nicely, but no persons tag*. Whats the average going rate for a half decent restored bike these days? eBay does'nt have many 63's ever coming up for sale, and most shows/swapmeets I attend don't either. I'm looking to make a really nice ridder here, no show stuff for me. Any realistic responses welcomed. Thanks.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by JimW. on 1/18/2002 at 7:38:11 PM
No way I consider myself an authority; but $400 sounds pretty pricey for what you got. I'm not one of those preservationist maniacs, but that bike lost a huge part of its value with that makeover it got. It sounds like it would be almost impossible to get back to the original finish, since it had a serious repaint. Since you only want a good rider, maybe you should consider just giving it a less tacky new paint job and replacing parts with bad plating with new repro parts. Don't throw the old ones away, though. Doing a thorough, high-quality resto on it would cost a whole lot of money, added onto what you've already spent. You'd have so much money invested in it that you might not be able to recover it if you sold it. If it's incredibly rare (I dunno) maybe you'd be better off selling it for what you paid plus a little profit, if you can get it, to somebody willing to spend the money to bring it back to perfection. With heavy investment, nobody in their right mind would be riding around on it.

The rule of thumb is that if you're not interested in ending up with a show bike, don't spend a lot of money on the potential basis for one. Buy cheap, put some sweat into it, have fun with it. You can't lose that way.

I think it's getting a little late to be getting into investing in this type of bike. Those guys who wanted them desperately as kids are getting a little long in the tooth, and they're the ones with money enough to indulge their nostalgic urges to the extreme. There isn't a generation coming up behind the current fanciers of these machines who have the emotional incentive to want them that badly. In 10 years or less, these will just be nice old bikes. There will always be bike collections, of course, but there won't be thousands of fanatic Stingray/Krate collectors fighting over them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by Andrew on 1/18/2002 at 11:12:37 PM
I think $400 o.k. for a 631/2, it's older then 99% of vintage stingrays, of the two million made between '63 and '68...only 40,000 were '63's! If it has correct parts like- 36 spoke center stamped rear wheel, non crimped strut early headset ect. you could always part it out and get your money back + a resto will cost you, but do it as a labor of love. It's the first of the best selling bike in history! I have a Nov. '63 lime frame, that Im on the lookout for parts for, If you decide not to restore, I could use parts...Shayden@shore.net Enjoy the bike....Andrew-

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by Robert on 1/19/2002 at 3:42:06 PM
This Sting-Ray is a Oct 63 (K3-----). All parts appear original too. Really nice chrome 36 spoked wheel with nos blackwall knobby, front wheel nice as well. I believe I read that there were only 12,000 Sting-Ray's that were produced that year, due to a shortage of parts. Anyone else hear that before? One more thing now. On the front cover of Liz Frieds book about Sting-Ray's, is that supposed to be a 1963 shown in violet? I'm not sure if they came that way, that's why I questioned the guy that painted the bike when he sold it to me. He did an outstanding job anyway. Later!

Robert

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by Andrew on 1/19/2002 at 6:02:19 PM
Robert, Old Roads has a Stinray info page with colors offered by year, in '63 it was Flamboyent Lime, Flamboyent red, and coppertone. The one on the cover of Liz Frieds book is a '64...note the 28 spoke rear wheel(change made in early to mid '64). on page 22 of her book, it mentions 40,000 bikes sold in '63, also in the book 'NO HANDS; THE RISE AND FALL OF SCHWINN', they mention 45,000, but I don't know what the real number is? The '64's get lots of attention, but the '63 is much scarcer and will certainly draw a crowd at a show...have fun-

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by TIM on 1/20/2002 at 7:32:33 AM
the seat is correct for '63 without the metal Persons tag.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   1963 1/2 Sting-ray posted by Mark on 1/21/2002 at 9:15:53 PM
Tim.....When was the Persons tag added?






FOR SALE:   Parting out a 55cc Motobecane moped posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. at OldRoads.com on 1/17/2002 at 8:40:29 PM
Pictures, prices and details at: http://OldRoads.com/motobecane.asp

Great source for wheels, drum brakes, etc.

Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.







AGE / VALUE:   Sears "10 speed Muscle bike" posted by: Jeff on 1/17/2002 at 1:03:47 AM
Anyone heard of or have a picture of one? Mine is really rough....Sky blue paint..dual shifter on dual top tubes...24" tires...banana seat...and similar handlebars to the ramshorn fastback....Its not a Spyder 500 because I already have one of those....Any help here? Thanx...Jeff







WANTED:   1965 Sting-ray super deluxe fender set posted by: Robert on 1/16/2002 at 6:05:13 AM
Looking for a clean complete set only. Paying cash only. Sorry nothing to trade. Thanks


   RE:WANTED:   1965 Sting-ray super deluxe fender set posted by Bob on 2/3/2002 at 4:40:39 PM
I may have two or three sets tucked away in the old shop. Let me look and I'll get back to you. You need any polo seats?

Bob

   RE:RE:WANTED:   1965 Sting-ray super deluxe fender set posted by Robert on 2/3/2002 at 4:44:25 PM
I thought that I would give myself the answer to my quest that would make my day. Oh well. Anyway folks, I'm still looking.

Robert






AGE / VALUE:   Need help in finding year of Schwinn Thrasher posted by: Brian on 1/16/2002 at 2:27:44 AM
I have looked at the Schwinn Serial Chart, but still cannot figure out the year of this bike. The numbers on the rear tear drop on the spocket side says GO783 and then the other tear drop the numbers are 3188739. Any Help would be appreciated. Thanks Brian







MISC:   royce union posted by: Rod on 1/15/2002 at 10:55:17 PM
Has anyone seen or heard of a 20" chopper style bike made by royce union in the mid to late 60's?







WANTED:   ID help/ Frame Wanted posted by: Mark on 1/13/2002 at 6:53:42 PM
OK all you experts out there.
What is this FRAME and has anyone got one.
Forks, bars, cranks shown are not stock was coaster brake.
http://communities.msn.ca/mechanistic/justthebegining.msnw
Mark


   RE:WANTED:   Not an "Expert" but... posted by Stacey on 1/13/2002 at 8:37:26 PM
Looks to me like it might be a Yamaha Moto-bike. Like Quasimodo said... "It's just a hunch."

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Not an posted by Joel on 1/14/2002 at 3:37:09 PM
Yamaha or one of the other variations. A search for Yamaha Moto Bike will turn up several websites with pix and parts.

   RE:WANTED:  Yep, It's a... posted by Stacey on 1/15/2002 at 12:25:35 AM
Moto-Bike! Check out this auction, this guy does!
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1062559167

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Not an posted by Mark on 1/19/2002 at 1:19:37 AM
Joel (and anyone else)
What variations ? I have been to the motobike sites, nothing like this frame. Mine has: no large dia top bar,
a supersize lower bar, extra drop bar to the chainstay, those funky brace plates with the holes (one front, two back) and oh ya, no back shocks just fake ones. the front shocks shown are not stock, and probably did come off a motobike.
The Question remains WHO made the frame ?
I do not think it was a one off custom, it resembles a CHOPPER and a MOTOBIKE, I feel it may have been some manufacturers copycat.
How about it old timers ?
Mark






WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by: Jack Wright on 1/13/2002 at 5:10:29 AM
im in search of a child hood machine i once had, ive had no luck even finding info on its existance. These machines were single speed, had a true chopper look over 4 ft forks with springer front end, gas tank, headlight a very small front wheel fat rear slick tire and chrome fender. it was trick montgomery wards sold them in so cal stores in the mid 70's i would just be happy with a picture


   RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/13/2002 at 5:17:52 PM
With a smile on my face I say to you that you are wrong, Sir! Keep looking and don't settle for a picture. I had never heard of Iverson until the Bike Rod n Kustom article and then I took a good look at a picture they included and I realized I had a lead on one and I scooped it up.
These ARE out there! Keep looking and asking. Watch e- bay! The strangest things pop up there. You'll need a picture first, show it to everybody and keep looking!

   RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by eric on 1/14/2002 at 1:53:17 AM
i've got a 1977 iverson chopper. not sure if it is what you are talking about, but it has no tank. it's an all chrome singlespeed with a giant fork and firestone supersport tires.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by Joel on 1/14/2002 at 3:38:27 PM
I think Wards sold Rollfast bikes.

   RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by Gordon on 1/15/2002 at 8:58:23 PM
There is a picture of one in Evolution of the Bicycle Volume Two. If my memory serves me correctly I think it was called an "Open Road". I can try and scan the picture and email you a copy.

   RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by Jack Wright on 1/18/2002 at 2:26:36 AM
yes gorden proved me right and was kind enough to e mail the pic, now the search begins. Thanks for all your help

   RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by ron on 1/18/2002 at 3:57:10 AM
i have this bike i brunt red color 3-4 foot forks,gas tank ,
chrome finder in rear and black banana seat

   RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by ron on 1/18/2002 at 4:00:52 AM
i have this bike i brunt red color 3-4 foot forks,gas tank ,
chrome finder in rear and black banana seat. gordon is right it says open road on the gas tank

   RE:RE:WANTED:   1976-77 Wards Open Road Chopper posted by JW on 2/4/2002 at 3:02:44 AM
Looking for this bike in any conditionand will pay up to 250.00 depending on condition or can trade for a new bike in my invertory Thanks JW






WANTED:   ------] WTB : Yellow Oval Slik [----- posted by: Baldy Jeff on 1/12/2002 at 6:09:28 PM
Lookin for the 20 x 2.125 Schwinn Sting Ray YELLOW OVAL SLIK tire commonly used on 1965 + '66 blackwall bikes-
Have cash or plenty to trade-
Thank you!
Baldy Jeff







MISC:   SCHWINN PEDALS part# 6522 posted by: doug on 1/12/2002 at 2:01:29 PM
Schwinn pedals part # 6522. What year and models were these used for?


   RE:MISC:   SCHWINN PEDALS part# 6522 posted by chrismeme on 2/14/2002 at 11:02:03 PM
im think your pedals will fit almost any standard schwinn






WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by: Stacey on 1/10/2002 at 1:15:11 PM
I've finally scrubbed my way through the rust, paint & grime. Finding what's useable and what's trash... well, the fenders are the latter, especially the rear one... sigh. If anyone has a servicable replacement, I'd like to hear about it. I prefer used (grade 5-7), but clean & straight, light prppering would be ok. New/rechromed would look out of place. Thanks!

In the wind,
Stacey


   RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by sambo883 on 1/20/2002 at 2:26:32 AM
Hi Stacey, I can't help u on any parts. Just wanted to say, I got a Baracuda too. All original but has cellar funk on it. I guess it was in someones basement for a long time. Then one afternoon I saw it w/ their trash outside. There were some #'s on the underside of the crank that I don't know what they mean, do u? I'm going to start going through it pretty soon though. See ya..........in the wind (HD883)!
ds

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by Stacey on 1/20/2002 at 7:10:42 PM
Well met, Sambo! Glad to see an enlightened one around here, no one yet it seem has caught the meaning of my "In the wind" tag, congrats! Cool too to see another "Fish Monger" around, not many of us. When 6you get to cleaning it, the chrome seemed pretty strong on mine... Lot's of munge that cleaned well with a copper scrubbie, followed by polish. Though go carefully on the paint, there dosen't seem to be a primer under it and mine rusted up bad. As for the numbers, I noticed them but haden't tried to decode anything yet. Flash me an email with a pic if you can It might be interesting to gather some data and create a registry/reference source for these beasts... er, fish. If you get a chance, you can view my progress on "Lazarus" at; http://staceyrhymer.freeservers.com/lazarus.html

In the wind,
Stacey

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by sambo883 on 1/22/2002 at 3:02:56 AM
Yes, I will visit the site. As far as photo's, I don't have a setup to scan any. Only problem I have w/ mine is; there are several children stickers on and around the chain guard that are pretty much fadded but are on there good. Someone told me to use nail polish to remove them. They have been on there for awhile I'm sure. The numbers under the crank are: R68 060......that's all I got! I'll be in touch w/ ya as far as watching any postings. See ya.........in the wind
sambo883 (HD883)

   RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by Stacey on 1/22/2002 at 4:13:22 AM
Nail polish remover is a big NO NO, it will attack the paint! Use Ronson lighter fluid instead. It will take a bit of time to soften the gum, but it's much better for the paint. Good luck.

In the wind,
Stacey

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by sambo883 on 1/23/2002 at 1:27:59 AM
Ok, will do! It'll be awhile b4 I get to it anyway. I got a couple of other bike's to do b4 I get to the Barracuda. I got a Town & Country to put together and a Typhoon then a Peerless, plus plenty more...............! Never heard of a Peerless. Someone said it may have been put out by Rollfast. Picked up this summer at a yrd. sale. What do u have for bike's?
sambo883 (Laconia; Rendezvous??)

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by Stacey on 1/23/2002 at 10:51:10 PM
My daily driver is a Raleigh Capri, 10 spd part road bike, part english roadster. I also have a home-built recumbent that is just about complete except for cables & chains. Then there's my fish project, which is holding for parts. Then way down at the bottom of the project list is a post war Rollfast... not sure where it's headed.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by sambo883 on 1/24/2002 at 1:16:34 AM
A Rollfast, ay? I have my dad's Rollfast "Roamer". He got it brand new when he was around 9 he said. So, it's about a 1939-40. I cleaned it up and put on new Kenda WW's (I still have the originals but are junk). My dad sat on it this past summer for the first time in about 60 yrs.!!! Pretty cool bike.
sambo883

   RE:WANTED:   Ross Barracuda parts posted by chrismeme on 2/14/2002 at 11:05:56 PM
i got a mint condtion






AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh stick shifts, They kinda went nuts with so many posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/10/2002 at 1:22:31 AM
Good heavens! How many diffrent kinds of console shifters did Sturmey- Archer make? I'm looking for the rare 5 speed version in this stash. There is one that is worth more than the others.
Where would we be without the excellent Raleigh Chopper web sites? Iv'e been into Raleigh's for years but never into Choppers that much and I found myself not knowing they made so many versions of shifters. I found the resources helpful and incredible. There is a big following for these all over the world.


   RE:AGE / VALUE: Shimano stick shifts, I don't wanna get stuck./unhappy in muscle bike part land posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/11/2002 at 12:26:56 AM
Shimano click shift ones too. Yee gads! 3 speed and 5 speed shifts, cables everywhere. Is there any call for these? what do they sell for? I left them there, if I discover a call for them I'll go back. I'm looking for the famous Schwinn stik shift that sells at such a nice price. I'm looking and didn't see one! Aarrgh! "It's here somewhere, gotta be! more shuffle, and lookin! Nope! AAh, defeat!
I made myself pick up that green Stingray/Krate frame and fork because I told myself the thing can be restored so origonal finish doesn't matter. I made myself pick up the small wheels with these drum hubs in them. My heart is not really in anything but rod brake roadsters and fine British lightweights.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Shimano stick shifts, I don't wanna get stuck./unhappy in muscle bike part land posted by Stacey on 1/12/2002 at 12:40:48 PM
Chris,

Shimano 3 Speed Clik-Stik Shifters, eh? Any complete (Cable, Mounting Bracket, Over Shift Tube, etc.)White ones?

Small Wheel with Drum Brake? Non-Schwinn? Talk to me buddy, talk to me! What else is there that I can use on my Fish project? How about a Shorty rear fender or a Standard height sissy bar, one that mounts via thoes two pronged clip thingies that go in to the back of the bar and bolt to the rear of the drop out? Perhaps a Weinmann 1020 front side pull caliper (Alloy)?

Dude, you've found muscle bike Xanadu! Sweet!!!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Shimano stick shifts, I don't wanna get stuck./unhappy in muscle bike part lan posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/12/2002 at 4:51:35 PM
Ok, Ok, I'll zoom back out there, lay hands on the rest of it! Hopefully I won't miss my exit this time going back. I have 3 more stashes to visit, 4 major projects going at once and research on something huge!
The bike zombie will go back into the field and do Stacey's bidding! Ya, know what? All my childhood pals had booring bikes! I'm seeing what is out there, what other kids had and most of what I see is bitchin- cool.
We had Ross bikes (the Apollo's) a plain Stingray.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Shimano stick shifts, I don't wanna get stuck./unhappy in muscle bike part posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/16/2002 at 12:24:48 AM
If I am gonna get impaled by the thing in a mishap, then I want it to be the Genuine Schwinn stik shift!No getting jabbed with a Shimano Clik shift. If you gonna do it you gotta do it right after all. As I heal up, I want to see it go over 150.00 on e- bay.

I grew up with the handlebar thumb shifter the basic Shimano 3 speed shifter that now sells for like $16.00

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh stick shifts, They kinda went nuts with so many posted by Catfood Rob on 1/16/2002 at 8:54:07 PM
So, Chris, whats in this stash?????? Std 3 speeds are still sought after over here.... Hay, why not work your way down from a shifter, and build a complete Chopper?? Theyre real fun.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh stick shifts, They kinda went nuts with so many posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/17/2002 at 1:44:24 AM
Shimano click shift cable in origonal plastic covered cards. I can grap so much of this in two immediate stashes. I believe there is no real call for stick shift cable/ I only pick up Sturmey Archer replacement cable. Am I wrong?
I picked up 3 or 4 stick shifts.






AGE / VALUE:   swing bike price posted by: sam on 1/10/2002 at 1:26:58 AM
A friend of mine has come across a swing bike and would like to know what they sell for.Anyone seen one on ebay lately?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   swing bike price posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/10/2002 at 4:34:51 PM
I just thought up an idea for a calender but I don't think it would be all that good for the bikes image. Never mind.






MISC:   16" atom type hub(non stamped) posted by: Jeff on 1/9/2002 at 10:14:45 PM
I have a 16" atom type hub laceed to a 16" rim...dont think its schwinn because it doesn't have ATOM stamped on it. What other muscle bikes used an atom front wheel? Could it be from the elusive SS-5? Any help here? thanx
Jeff


   RE:MISC:   16 posted by Cal on 1/9/2002 at 11:46:43 PM
Not sure what the SS-5 is, but I've seen other drum brakes from the 1970s on some off-brand muscle bikes, including ones laced into a 16 inch ("n") hole rim.


   RE:MISC:   16 posted by Stacey on 1/12/2002 at 2:55:34 PM
Jeff,
Jump over to: http://staceyrhymer.freeservers.com/bent.html Down near the bottom of the page is a front durm brake... it's an older Arai unit. It's not Grimeca, I have one of thoes too in a rear model. Can you post/send a picture of it? Might help the identification process.

In the wind,
Stacey

   RE:RE:MISC: Take a look at her recumbant project posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/13/2002 at 5:26:56 PM
Neat recumbant project Stacey!

   RE:Take a look at her recumbEnt project posted by Stacey on 1/13/2002 at 6:26:54 PM
Thanks Chris! I'ts painted now and I've started to put her together, looks real sharp. Just as soon as the weather breaks a bit, I'll add some updated photos. Also, keep your eyes on the site for details of project "Lazarus" my Five Dollar Fish. Should be coming to a browser near you mid-week.

   RE:RE:Take a look at her recumbEnt project posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/14/2002 at 5:45:02 PM
recumbent: r-e-c-u-m-b-e-n-t. recumbent.It's time for spellcheck and a program that fixes dyslexia to be stuck in the brain.

   RE:RE:MISC:   16 posted by Jeff on 1/14/2002 at 10:22:00 PM
Great web page Stacey....You have some serious skills. Not too many people can take a picture from their mind and convert it into reality!! The bike Gods have smiled upon you!
offbranders rule!
Jeff

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   16 posted by Stacey on 1/15/2002 at 5:50:04 PM
Thanks Jeff! I appreciate the feedback! Now, those skills... is that with site building or bizzare bicycles? LOL!!! Not all the credit is mine, I have a welder/fabricator/painter friend that has been very instrumental in the coming together of this project.

I think the blessing is a curse at times. You don't know the hours of sleep missed due to a concept formulating as my head hits the pillow. Allowing repast only after watching the countless slow rotations of the second hand as these concepts sort themselves out. Or the frustration of being well towards completion of a project and suddleny out of nowhere this wild sprite of an idea leaves its indellible mark upon my brain. Apart it comes, a new direction persued. only to repeat it's self again and again and again until in a fit of frustration I throw my tools down screaming, Stop, Stop, STOP! This insanity must cease! Once cleared, I pick up my tools, let the creative juices flow, and putter hapily along with the task at hand. Yes, it is a blessing and I wouldn't trade it for the world :-) It's life, enjoy it!

In the wind,
Stacey

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   16 posted by JimW. on 1/17/2002 at 5:46:19 PM
Stacey,
I haven't had a chance to go back to see your 'bent project
lately, but it looked very promising last time I checked.
When it's finished, there's a place for it in the BikeRod&Kustom Gallery.
Jim
http://bikerodnkustom.com

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   16 posted by Stacey on 1/17/2002 at 6:32:34 PM
No changes posted lately, Jim. I've been side tracked with other tasks & projects... Did my "Josephine the Plumber" impersonation this morning. Thanks for the offer, it does wonders for my self-esteem. I hope to have some time to work on it and the site next week. In the meanwhile, why not check out "Lazarus" my Five Dollar Fish at http://staceyrhymer.freeservers.com/lazarus.html . Perhaps, there might be an encore piece here? LOL

In the wind,
Stacey






AGE / VALUE:   Sting-Ray Fastback posted by: Fred on 1/9/2002 at 4:34:28 PM
I would like to find the Year of this bike .
if anyone who might know? e-mail me.
Serial number is CB5119.Sky Blue
Thank you


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sting-Ray Fastback posted by Drew on 1/9/2002 at 8:19:44 PM
That would be March, 1966.....C=March and B=1966. It's the first year of the Fastback. In my mis-spent youth about 1972, I found a Fastback in the woods and decided to destroy it.... the owner informed the police and I got in a tad of trouble. I treat my Stingrays with care today!