Discussion - English Roadsters

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ARCHIVE: July 17, 1997 through September 17, 1997

Discussion - English Roadsters

Archived discussions: July 17, 1997 through Sep. 17, 1997


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Subject: J C Higgins 3 speed hub
Entered on: Sep 18, 1997 15:27
Entered by: Randy

Message:
I have a JC Higgins 3 speed hub. It appears to be in excellent shape. I think its a 1962 model. Ive never seen one before. Is it rare? Anyone need one?




Subject: OLD RALEIGH SUPER LENTON
Entered on: Sep 19, 1997 02:00
Entered by: KEVIN

Message:
I HAVE A SUPER LENTON WITH A NUMBER ON THE SEATPOST 409 MV. IT HAS CHROME FENDERS WITH DOUBLE SUPORTS FRONT & REAR. A DYNO HUB WITH A CHROME HEAD LIGHT AND PLASTIC TAIL LIGHT . IT IS BURGANDY AND CREAM IN COLOR WITH GOLD PINSTRIPING. THE HAND BRAKES ARE OLD FASHONED LEAD AT BOTH ENDS OF THE CABLE WITH CHROME HAND LEVERS FASHONED LIKE NEWER RACING 10 SPEED IT ALSO HAS A RALEIGH BELL AND KICKSTAND WITH RALEIGH LOGO. IN ADDITION TO BOTH HAND BRAKES IT HAS A FOOT BRAKE. ANY WAY TO TELL DATE. ALSO LOVE OLDER BIKES ABOUT 20 FROM THE FIFTIES. I USED TO FIX UP BIKES IN FAIRFAX CO. FOR THE ADOPT A FAMILY PROGRAM .




Subject: raleigh 3 speed tourist
Entered on: Sep 19, 1997 13:49
Entered by: larry

Message:
I have this 3 speed raleigh that is almost like brand new.It has been kept indoors exclusively. the only thing it may need is new tires/tubes. It is for sale to the highest, reasonable, bid...




Subject: Starting the compilation of nameplates on English bikes....
Entered on: Sep 20, 1997 17:36
Entered by: Russ

Message:
Okay, because I'm feeling brave and stupid, I thought it might be fun to enumerate all the British roadster nameplates seen. I know, it's an awful lot like going trainspotting, but here goes....Apart from the usual Raleighs, I see listed on this page Rudge, Rudge-Whitworth, BSA, Dawes, Humber, Phillips, Dunelt, Triumph, Hercules, Robin Hood, The Defiance, Carlton, Elswick, CWS Cycle Works, Royal Scott....let me add Windsor, as in an ancient ladies frame model I saw hanging in a guy's workshop yesterday. Maybe we can come up with a cyberprize for the rarest old Brit Bike reported on line....




Subject: robin hood parts
Entered on: Sep 20, 1997 23:42
Entered by: Steve

Message:
Russ, if you can help me out here, I'd appreciate it. I got my bike from a junkyard, and while rideable, it's prettyfar gone. I'd like to restore it completly,but right now, I don't even now if it's athree speed or not. Any info you can poston my bike and the accessability of origionalparts would really be appreciated. After going over the bike the other day, the onlyorigional parts remaining I'm sure of arethe frame and the crank for the pedals. My sons name is Robin, and someday I'dlike to give him a beautifully restored bikewith his name on it. Any helps appreciated.




Subject: brit bike list
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 00:48
Entered by: calvert

Message:
& how can we overlook Sunbeam, Royal Enfield, Holdsworth, New Hudson, Hetchins, Sun Cycles, Mead, Armstrong, Keystone, Norman, Gazelle, Halford, Claud Butler.........




Subject: brit bike list
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 01:06
Entered by: calvert

Message:
& how can we overlook Sunbeam, Royal Enfield, Holdsworth, New Hudson, Hetchins, Sun Cycles, Mead, Armstrong, Keystone, Norman, Gazelle, Halford, Claud Butler.........




Subject: And...
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 09:04
Entered by: kath

Message:
Royal London, Scout




Subject: RE: robin hood parts
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 09:06
Entered by: JimB

Message:
I'm quite familiar with Robin Hood since I have one in my garage. It's a middle grade English 3-speed that peaked in popularity in the 1960's. Check the rear hub for a date code (example: "12 63" means if was made in December 1963). Robin Hood used Enrich rims (rectangular cross section versus peaked for Raleigh style rims) and most other parts are interchangeable with other 60's 3-speeds. Robin Hoods are not worth spending money to fix up in my opinion. Unless you have some attachment to the specific bike, I would suggest you shop for a bike in better shape at a garage sale. If you absolutely must have the Robin Hood restored, look for a bike with Enrich rims (such as Phillips) in nice shape and transfer the parts to the Robin Hood frame. Don't forget to rebuild the Robin Hood head set and bottom bracket before you start the rebuild.




Subject: Rebulding English Cottered Crank Bottom Bracket
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 09:18
Entered by: JimB

Message:
This is information those of you with English 3-speeds can use. I have done this well over 20 times and have the process down now. Start by removing the pedals from the crank arms using a pedal wrench or an old cone wrench. Remove the nuts and bolts from the cotters and liberally soak the cotter bolts with penetrating oil. Get a 3/8 inch socket that fits over the cotter bolt and place it on a piece of wood that is high enough to clear the chain ring. Place that socket on the wood, slide the end of the cotter bolt into the socket and firmly whack the threaded part of the cotter. After a few whacks, the cotter will fall free. Do not do this without the wood support or you will damage the bottom bracket. Do the other side and remove the crank arms from the bike. Next, take a broad screwdriver and gently tap on the locking ring to unscrew it from the bottom bracket. Using a cone wrench, unscrew the bearing cup from the bottom bracket. The crank axle and all the bearings will come tumbling out. (continued in next message)




Subject: Rebuilding Bottom Brackets (continued)
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 09:30
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Now you have a pile of parts. Use SOS Junior pads and water to scrub the chrome parts. Dry them well, then wax them with car wax. You can clean the bearing cup, axle, and ring with mineral spirits, then again using the SOS pads and water. If you want them cleaned up even more, use some Semichrome polish to make them like new again. You should replace the bearings and cotter bolts with new ones. American Cyclery in San Francisco can get English cotters and Bike Nashbar sells bags of the loose bearings for a few dollars a bag. After cleaning with mineral spirits, carefully grease the inside of the bearing cup in the frame with a high quality bicycle grease. Carefully place bearings into the cup until you complete the ring of bearings (don't underfill or overfill). Do the same with the cup that was removed. Insert the axle long end first into the cup in the frame and make sure it turns once it contacts the bearings. Screw the cup in the other side until it is firm. Back it off slightly until the axle turns fairly easily. Clean up any extra grease and install the locking ring hand tight. (continued next message)




Subject: Rebuilding Bottom Brackets (continued again)
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 09:43
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Now slide the crank arms over the ends of the axle making sure you put the chainring on the side opposite the removable bearing cup. Loosly fit the cotters, install the cotter washers, and finger tighten the nuts. Keep it this way until you have the rest of the bike (wheels, chainguard, etc) restored and back on the bike. There are cases when you may have to take the crank arms back off again, so don't tighten them now. Assuming everything is restored and you are ready to do final adjustments on the bike, use a cone wrench to adjust the removable bearing cup until the axle rotates without binding, but there is no slop in the axle. Gently tap the locking ring with a hammer and screwdriver until it is firmly screwed against the frame. Take a hammer and gently tap the cotters until they are well seated, then tighten the nuts. Ride the bike for a while, then go back and readjust the removable bearing cup to take up any slop. You have just completed the second toughest job on an English 3-speed rebuild (rear hub restoration is the toughest).




Subject: Steve and the Robin Hood restoration
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 17:40
Entered by: Russ

Message:
Steve,I am no expert on these things, and values fluctuate. For whatever it's worth, I have never paid more than $50 for an English roadster, if we exclude the costs of tires, tubes, cables, etc. I am inclined to agree with JimB, who is more knowledgeable about these bikes. At the same time, (gasp), if you take your time, you may find the stuff you need to make this one right, or you may find another one in better shape. Garage sales are a good idea, simply because these machines seem to survive pretty well in garages and basements, as opposed to the ones left outside in the elements. Good luck!




Subject: Cool stuff online re: English Roadsters
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 18:11
Entered by: Russ

Message:
For whatever it is worth, I stumbled onto a site that has the catalog from an August 1996 auction in England of cycles and cycle memorabilia. I recommend Lots 235-290 of the catalog at www.auctions-on-line.com/phillips/ault/96810 if you like the idea of drooling over odd old bikes that we somehow missed getting our covetous hands on!




Subject: More nameplates! Dursley-Pedersen
Entered on: Sep 22, 1997 18:02
Entered by: Russ

Message:
From perusing the above-cited site, let me add F.H. Grubb, Gloria, Hobbs of Barbicon, and the exquisitely English-sounding Dursley-Pedersen. Apparently, D-P manufactured a 3-speed hub system of their own, which I am frankly curious about. The same listing also includes references to Sturmey-Archer hubs I'd never heard of, including the KB, the K7, the KB4, the KB6, K3, and the model K (!). All of the afore-mentioned Sturmeys are 3-speeds, according to the list. There apparently was also a BSA 3-speed gear, which sounds intriguing.




Subject: robin hood
Entered on: Sep 23, 1997 00:08
Entered by: calvert

Message:
Raleigh changed the name of its economy brand bike, the Gazelle to Robin Hood in 1943 (yes, raleigh built bikes during the war) This was done to avoid confusion with the Dutch-made Gazelle....years later Raleigh acquired the Dutch Gazelle company.....




Subject: robin hood
Entered on: Sep 23, 1997 00:16
Entered by: calvert

Message:
oh yeah.....the Invicta, too.....& the Dursley-Pedersen was the inventon of a dane but built in britain w/ brit backing.....a modern variation is still being made i've been told....til @ least recently ....




Subject: buyers market
Entered on: Sep 23, 1997 20:59
Entered by: claudia

Message:
gee, this discussion list is getting really long.wouldn't it be nice if the latest messages wereat the top of the page?on to buyer's prices--i got a very good green 74 ladiesraleigh sports at a thrift store for19.95. put an expensive brookes leather saddle on it tho. at the same thrift store ifound a german "spontane" for 9.95.it has great unpainted aluminum fendersand mostly usa parts like the grip shifer3-speed hub. my third 3-speed is a "ranger"made in nottingham--don't know if it isa raleigh or not but has a great headbadgeof a cowboy and oddly is called a chicago ranger.




Subject: Raleigh Superbe
Entered on: Sep 24, 1997 13:14
Entered by: Anthony

Message:
I was wonering about the value and interest in a Raleigh Superbe made in Nottingham Eng. It is in ex. condition and was stored in a garage. Thank you




Subject: Nameplates, Dursley-Pedersen, BSA
Entered on: Sep 24, 1997 14:58
Entered by: BILL

Message:
The Londoner and Popular Special the later having a great 3 color head badge on brass. From info contained in "The Sturmey-Archer Story" the BSA hub was essentially the same as the 1906 Sturmey-Archer and was used almost unchanged by BSA until 1955. Contact me for more details if needed. The Pedersen hub looks very different than any other hub and was available in 2 speed or 3 speed. I own a 1936 BSA mens roadster which I bought from the original owner and it is a great 3 speed.




Subject: more limey bike names....
Entered on: Sep 25, 1997 01:18
Entered by: calvert

Message:
Ariel, Juno, Grose, Referee, Stenton Glider, Benetfink, Selbach,Bertrand, Currys(The Curry), Buckley, Brampton, Merlin, H. Fitzpatrick(the "Thriller"), The Graves(Royal Sleuth), Evans, Maclean's Featherweights....




Subject: limey biker list....
Entered on: Sep 25, 1997 01:54
Entered by: calvert

Message:
I send out the rough draft of the limey biker list yesterday (the day before yesterday if your operating on GMT) to all who requested inclusion.....if you've sent me your name &'ve not received your list for approval email me on the double so i can make the corrections get the list out by sunday....thx...cgIf you've not submitted your name yet (refer to the 8/22 posting) there is just enough time to get it in...but no guarantee you will get an opportunity to proof it....so write it out carefully.....sample follows:RUBERIC QUILLER711 Pitstop ParkwayNonesuch, Kentucky45201502/555/5555bykecult@aol.calm'49 Raleigh roadster'51 Raleigh roadster'63 Raleigh roadster'79 Raleigh roadster'51 Rudge ladies'sport'30's Elswick rodbrake sport'70 Moulton MkIII'65 Moulton 4spd'63 Dunelt sportWWII Hercules all-weather(?) single speed sportWWII Humber roadsterInterested in all highgrade brit bikes. ...exhibits little tolerance for muscle bikes & chrome-candy encrusted ballooners....Looking for a pre'18 Sunbeam Roadster....also a good rodbrake brit delivery bike(& tyres for same).[follow this outline if it works for you]




Subject: Wheels
Entered on: Sep 26, 1997 18:42
Entered by: David

Message:
Does anyone have some 26x1-3/8 wheels for sale?




Subject: Western Flyer marked Hercules
Entered on: Sep 27, 1997 18:30
Entered by: Russ

Message:
Boy, is this one a mess! Here we go. The bike in question is a 21-in frame Hercules equipped with 26 x 1 3/8-in tires. On the left rear dropout is a serial number, 9493UR. Seattube markings include a decal above the bottom bracket (made in England) and one beneath the seat cluster (Guaranteed finest quality steel throughout all brazed and bonderized(?)). There are absolutely no braze-ons. The bottom bracket has an oil fitting. The fender eyes on the rear dropout are above the axel, rather than behind in standard Raleigh fashion. The front fork crown is similar to those on Raleighs, i.e., a cylinder shape with chromed cups on the outsides, but the front fork ends appear to be stampings, rather than brazed on ends. The chainwheel has H patterns, presumably for Hercules. The headtube is painted white in contrast to the rest of the black frame, and features a Western Flyer badge that notes the bike was made in England. The rear hub is marked B type 4 Manufactured by Hercules Cycle and Motor Co. Birmingham England. The handlebar mounted shift control is marked Her-Cu-Matic, with H, N and L instead of the usual gear numbers. Steel brake calipers and levers with double ended cables, a fabric covered spring saddle marked Hercules, Lucas generator and lights, chromed steel fenders, North Road bars and stem complete the equipment. I have done nothing more than bring it indoors after buying it today. Before I start dismantling this one, is there anything at all of special interest? I suspect not, but I would like to be certain before I start taking things apart. And is there any way to date this? I am assuming this is pre-1960, as the frame does not appear to be a Raleigh. Thanks!




Subject: English Bike shops
Entered on: Sep 28, 1997 09:16
Entered by: Tim

Message:
Claudia,Do you have the address of the bike shop in England that deals in vintage parts etc? Tim.




Subject: Western Flyer/Herc
Entered on: Sep 29, 1997 11:18
Entered by: Shamus

Message:
That Western Flyer/Herc is way older than 1960 if it have an H N L shifter. Right?




Subject: english raynal cycle- 'President' model
Entered on: Oct 1, 1997 03:07
Entered by: Kim

Message:
I bought a bicycle from a yard sale for $1.00. The front badge reads as follows: President- genuine english raynal cycle. Does any one have any information about this bicycle?




Subject: "english" roadster parts?
Entered on: Oct 1, 1997 10:25
Entered by: Bill

Message:
I recently bought a nice clean Columbia 3 speed 'Tourist' for tooling around the neighborhood with my kids. Does anybody have a source for a reasonably-priced English-style saddlebag (I think they call them seat bags nowadays)? The Caradice bags are nice but cost more than the bike! They used to be ubiquitous, but I haven't seen any in a while. Used and clean would be ok. I just need it to hold my camera while we're on the way to the park, etc. Also, does anybody have a source for the traditional handbrake levers? All the bike shops areound here just carry the fancy MTB styles and those aren't the correct type. Again, used and clean would be ok. thanx!




Subject: RE: "english" roadster parts?
Entered on: Oct 2, 1997 15:26
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Finding English bicycle parts is definitely a challenge in the US. There are only a few places I have found that still carry English 3-speed parts. Scott Cyclery in Willimantic, CT generally has a nice supply of odd new and used English parts. Scott specializes in collecting bizzare and obscure 3-speed bikes like 3-speed tandems, 3-speed in the bottom bracket, etc. He can be reached at 860-423-8889. The only other source I know is American Cyclery in San Francisco. Bradley has done a great job finding many obscure parts for me. Am Cyclery's phone is (415)664-4545.




Subject: RE: "english" roadster parts?
Entered on: Oct 2, 1997 15:30
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Another option you may want to consider is a "Nantucket style" wicker basket for the front. This style of basket on an English 3-speed used to be quite common on Nantucket Island (off the coast of Massachusetts). I have one for my English Roadster, plus a few of the black bags for under the seat. I use one of the other depending on what I need to carry. I know Menotomy sells the baskets because I saw them last time I stopped in to visit.




Subject: Re: "english" roadster parts
Entered on: Oct 3, 1997 22:01
Entered by: Fran

Message:
Via Bicycle, 606 S. 9th Street, Philadelphia, PA 19147; (215) 627-3370. Curtis Anthony is the owner. He has a good supply of english 3 speeds and parts. Certainly more 26" than 28" although he seems to have a knack for coming up with complete 28" roadsters in good condition. Last time I checked he had some carradice seat bags at around $40, I believe. Also has wicker baskets.




Subject: frame sizes
Entered on: Oct 6, 1997 09:03
Entered by: ChrisE

Message:
What different frame sizes are there for English 3-speeds? Measured along the seat post, I've seen 18.5", 19" 21" and 23"




Subject: RE: frame sizes
Entered on: Oct 6, 1997 11:09
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Those are the sizes I have seen. Rod brake roadsters with 28 inch wheels might have gone to 24 inches, but I'm not sure.




Subject: 25 mile rode with English Roadster
Entered on: Oct 6, 1997 11:33
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Last Sunday, I took my Dunelt 28 inch (wheel) rod brake roadster on a 25 mile bike ride through southwestern New Hamshire. The leaves are just beginning to change and the view was fabulous. At first I was afraid I wouldn't be able to climb the hills with just three gears, but that turned out to not be a problem. First gear is sufficient for all but the steepest hills, second works well on slight inclines, flats, and slight downhills, and third will get the bike up close to 20 mph on the downhills. Many of the other riders did double takes when they saw I was riding a full-fendered 41 pound bike with only three speeds. I made it up every hill without walking and completed the 25 mile tour in about 2 1/2 hours including a 30 minute stop for lunch. Overall, it was great fun.




Subject: 25 mile ride
Entered on: Oct 7, 1997 08:00
Entered by: jj

Message:
Nice job, JimB. From what I've seen, everyone who rides in any organized ride is going to be covered in spandex, riding expensive bikes and using the latest hi-tech gear. No one has the b*lls, or the muscle, to take an older bike on anything other than a loop around the block. Good work, man!




Subject: Ride the old ones proudly!
Entered on: Oct 7, 1997 14:44
Entered by: Russ

Message:
I second jj's response, JimB. It is a personal point of pride with me to avoid the use of any bike built within the last 20 years for much of anything! Where I work, all the other places in the rack are filled with insanely expensive mountainbikes that will never leave the street. I'll have to consider taking my Dawes out for a longer run, just to respond to all the expensive new stuff out there.




Subject: I enjoy all types of bikes
Entered on: Oct 7, 1997 15:53
Entered by: JimB

Message:
I own quite a collection of bikes and enjoy riding all of them. I even have a (horrors!!) 1995 bright red team Cannondale M200 mountain bike with matching team Cannondale "Spandex" jersey. I also have a vintage road bike from the early 70's, a 28 inch English rod brake roadster, two 1970's English 3-speeds, one custom 1960's English 4 speed racer, a 1932 Raleigh 3-speed, a 1936 Elgin baloon tire bike, and a 1954 Raleigh 3-speed.




Subject: Custom English retro racer
Entered on: Oct 9, 1997 09:25
Entered by: JimB

Message:
If anyone is interested, I posted information in the "Custom Bicycle" discussion note on a 1920's style English retro racer I am just completed.




Subject: kid's Raleigh
Entered on: Oct 13, 1997 00:35
Entered by: Robert

Message:
I came across a 24 inch-wheeled raleigh boy's bike yesterday. It was called a Space Rider and was bright orange. It also had a single-speed hub w/coaster brake. I don't remember ever seeing a Raleigh quite like this before. The color makes it look like a '70's model. It had the usual peaked fender, and a Nottingham head badge. Does anyone know anything about this bike, i.e. age and value? Thanks, Robert




Subject: Hercules English 3-speed
Entered on: Oct 13, 1997 08:59
Entered by: Rino

Message:
I am in need of some decals for a '57 Hercules Royal Prince. Where or where can they be found, or what or what do I do? Please help




Subject: RE: Hercules English 3-speed
Entered on: Oct 13, 1997 09:04
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Good luck finding decals. I have been looking for the last two years and have come up empty-handed. You will probably have to have them made (which costs about $200 each for the artwork alone).




Subject: Vintage Royal
Entered on: Oct 14, 1997 11:33
Entered by: Fred

Message:
I have a Royal in original condition with Serial No. 49897 on the seat post. Can anyone tell me its vintage and marketability. It has a generator powered Crown headlamp, bell, seat bag, Bates Dunlap whitewall tires and Huret speedometer with 43 miles on it.




Subject: RE: Vintage Royal
Entered on: Oct 14, 1997 12:52
Entered by: JimB

Message:
check the rear Sturmey Archer hub for a date code. For instance "12 61" is December 1961. As for the market value, it's worth anywhere from $15 to $400 in my opinion. How much you get depends on how and where you market the bike. A garage sale will get you $15-30. A web advertisement with picture should get you at least $100 and possibly much more if you find the right buyer.




Subject: Bike Names- English Roadsters
Entered on: Oct 14, 1997 14:59
Entered by: John

Message:
Bike Names- We're only just starting! How about:- Uppadine, Baines, Pennine, Reg Harris, Phillips, Dayton, Ellis Briggs, J.R.J., Quinns of Liverpool, Woodrup, Bates etc. etc. (and most of these are hanging in my loft area!!!!!!!!




Subject: English Bike Parts
Entered on: Oct 14, 1997 19:58
Entered by: PaulK

Message:
If more people who are looking for English Roadster parts came to the swap meets and asked the Vendors for them they would bring to sell. Nobody wants to carry around parts that don't sell. Most have parts at home.




Subject: Decals
Entered on: Oct 15, 1997 10:40
Entered by: Tim

Message:
I just sent a letter to an address in the UK that advertises Decals (or transfers). We'll see what happens and let the discussion area know




Subject: RE: Decals
Entered on: Oct 15, 1997 11:34
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Please publish the results of your letter. A number of us are looking for decals.




Subject: Tire and Rim chart
Entered on: Oct 16, 1997 09:40
Entered by: Menotomy Vintage Bicycles

Message:
We've created a vintage bicycle tire and rim chart showing tire and rim specs and rim cross-sections. You'll find it under the 'Old Maps/Pix' link at the top of this page.




Subject: Rudge Sports
Entered on: Oct 16, 1997 19:45
Entered by: Bob

Message:
I have a 1968 "Rudge Sports". 21",green,Whitworth chainwheel and VERY clean any idea on value?




Subject: Black Wall Tires
Entered on: Oct 17, 1997 09:09
Entered by: Rino

Message:
I am restoring a '57 Hercules Royal Prince. Just the other day I was given a '70 Armstrong, both are English 3-speeds. My problem was find black wall nobbe tires. I must have call and e-mailed the entire span of the US and was going to even call the UK. It isn't easy to find 26x13/8 black walls with a small nobbe, like the original. So what happened, I found them in K-Mart. Could not believe it. They are made by KENDA. When I tlod my bike shop that, they then knew what I was looking for. They even still produce a "roadster" tire. I haven't seen it yet but will. Hope this helps some one else!




Subject: A Cool Web Site
Entered on: Oct 18, 1997 15:48
Entered by: johnburt

Message:
All you Anglophiles will enjoy www.eskimo.com Look for Dekker Services and enjoy the Pashleys!




Subject: reflector
Entered on: Oct 20, 1997 20:17
Entered by: claudia

Message:
i lost the red rear fender reflector on my raleigh 3 speed. anyone out there have one to sell




Subject: RALEIGH
Entered on: Oct 21, 1997 08:06
Entered by: NANCY

Message:
HAVE RALEIGH 10 SPEED IN GOOD CONDITION 4 SALE. '60S OR ''70S.ROYAL BLUE. 28" WHEELS."RALEIGH" WRITTEN IN SCRIPT ON FRAME, GIRLS MODEL. CALL 630 627-7523 W/OFFER.




Subject: RE: Black Wall Tires
Entered on: Oct 21, 1997 09:27
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Tires for English roadsters (26 X 1 3/8) are only being made in Taiwan and Holland at this time. England stopped manufacturing them long ago and I don't believe Holland imports theirs to the US. As a result, I save my English Dunlops for accurate restorations and bicycles to be judged in shows. Walmart sells the Taiwanese 26 X 1 3/8 roadster tires for $5.97 each and they work great for bikes you want to use everyday.




Subject: RE: reflector
Entered on: Oct 21, 1997 09:30
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Reflectors are getting very hard to find. Ask around at your local bike shops, expecially the ones that have been there a long time. When you do find one, use some Loctite Blue (thread locking fluid) on the threads to make sure you don't lose this new one.




Subject: Rudge Sports
Entered on: Oct 21, 1997 13:42
Entered by: Tim

Message:
In response to the "Rudge Sports". I just purchased a Rudge Sports 23" mens model in black at a garage sale. Has the Rudge "Hand" on the main chain drive plus a dyno-hub and a Brooks B-72 saddle. It is in pretty good shape. The SA hub reads 64 9. Paid $75.00 Not a bad price I think considering the dyno hub.




Subject: Brooks Saddles
Entered on: Oct 21, 1997 13:51
Entered by: jj

Message:
Is there any correlation between make, year, or anything on determining when a Brit Bike will have a leather Brooks? I usually find them on Raleigh 'Sports', but also sometimes find vinyl Brooks. Any clues?




Subject: drop tube?
Entered on: Oct 21, 1997 18:30
Entered by: Timbob

Message:
Generally what are those 60's(ish) English Frames with the sloping(down, t'wards the seatstay) top-tubes called? (Ex's:many old Raleigh's, Phillips, and Robin Hood) Is a Raleigh Super Lenton like that? Anyone selling one? preferably a Raleigh or Phillips (and even better, with them nifty rear-facing back drop-outs?




Subject: RE: Brooks Saddles
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 08:49
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Sheldon Brown explains that one pretty well on his web page.




Subject: RE: drop tube?
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 09:10
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Are you referring to the women's model with the two parallel downtubes? If so, those are called "mixte frames". The top tube is dropped to allow women in flowing dresses and pettycoats to easily mount and dismount their bicycles. If the females in your family do not wear dresses while cycling and they do not care much for European tradition, then they will get a better performing frame by going to a men's frame with the top tube parallel to the ground.




Subject: Raleigh Sprite
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 11:07
Entered by: David H.

Message:
I have a Raleigh Sprite with a 5spd Sturmey Archer, 26 in tires, generator lights, Brooks, & a rear rack. I need the shifters, they are frame mounted with two switches. It also has handlebars similar to the Schwinn Stingray Rams-Horn bars, Are these original? If not they sure look cool.




Subject: Peugeot Folding Bike
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 11:09
Entered by: David H

Message:
I have a Peugeot folding bike w/ 21 in tires. Does anyone know where to get these tires.




Subject: Brit. Parts
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 11:10
Entered by: David H

Message:
Pace Bicycle Heaven in Independence, MO (near Kansas City) has many Raleigh and other hard to find parts. call Mark Pace (816) 461-RIDE




Subject: 60's Raleigh
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 20:48
Entered by: charl

Message:
Are there price guides for English bicycles? What would the price range be for a 60's Raleigh English Flyer. Any information would be appreciated.




Subject: oddball sighting
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 21:35
Entered by: Russ

Message:
Spotted an interesting roadster the other day in Macon, GA. This was a J.C. Higgins 3-speed with what looked suspiciously like an old Sachs/Sears 3-speed hub. The chainring had "J.C. Higgins" spelled out in it, rather like BSAs used to be. The shift lever was a boxy unit mounted with screws through the top tube. Full fenders and rack, of course, repainted in institutional interior green...but featuring lugs EXACTLY like those on my 1972 Peugeot A0-18 10-speed. A magnificently strange old beast, and one I felt should be described.




Subject: RE: Raleigh Sprite
Entered on: Oct 22, 1997 22:18
Entered by: MartinH

Message:
My Sprite is a Humber 5 speed, but both bikes should be similar. The bike has regular, Raleigh-style handle bars, but they are mounted with an elegant, hour-glass shape goose neck - not the boxy kind that is common on Raleighs. I think that this set up is original but I have not seen another for comparison. Also mine has the dual shifters mounted on the top tube. I have also seen dual shifters on the handle bars. I do not know a source for the shifters - perhaps someone else on here will know.




Subject: MIXTE FRAME!!!?
Entered on: Oct 23, 1997 08:02
Entered by: CALVERT

Message:
The frame timbob is refering to is called a step-through frame (occassionly/erroneously refered to as a drop frame).....i've never seen a brit bike with a mixte frame (though maybe raleigh made some i don't know).....most mixtes i've seen have been french gitanes & motobecanes....




Subject: RE: MIXTE FRAME!!!?
Entered on: Oct 23, 1997 11:05
Entered by: JimB

Message:
So what's the difference between a mixte frame and a step-through frame?




Subject: Mixte vs. step-thru frames
Entered on: Oct 23, 1997 12:13
Entered by: Russ

Message:
A mixte frame features a top tube or tubes, straight but angled down, that run from the top of the headtube to the rear dropouts, as opposed to just a straight or curved top tube that is lowered. While Mixtes were originally mostly French, a la Peugeot UE 18s, Gitanes, Motobecanes, etc., they were the preferred frame for ladies' 10-speeds. Raleigh did built Mixtes, mostly derailleur bikes. If memory serves me, the experts used to claim that the ones with a full sized but lowered top tube that continued on to the rear droputs with seat-stay sized tubes was the strongest, followed by those with seat-stay sized tubes that ran from head to rear. The step-thru frames, whether they used the dramatically curved down top tube (think Raleigh DL1 Tourist) or straight and parallel to the downtube were not considered as strong. Admittedly, this is mid70s thinking here.




Subject: RE: Mixte vs step-through frame
Entered on: Oct 24, 1997 15:25
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Thanks. Now I understand the difference between mixte and step-through frames. According to your description, my wife has a true mixte frame on her 1968 ladies Peugeot. If the term "mixte frame" is truly limited to the frames as you describe them, then how do you explain the use of mixte to describe Cannondales H300 Mixte (http://www.cannondale.com/html/products/97bikes/h300_mixte_full.html)? That frame looks very similar to an English step-through frame. Is Cannondale bending the rules here?




Subject: Mixtes and Cdale
Entered on: Oct 24, 1997 17:57
Entered by: Russ

Message:
JimB, The answer to your question is, Probably. I have not seen the Cdale in question, but I think the mixte designation applies only if the rear triangle has three sets of stays, rather than the usual two. However, I may be quite mistaken. I have made a mistake or two in my life, actually....but let's not spread that around tooo much!!




Subject: The DL-1 a step through?
Entered on: Oct 25, 1997 00:52
Entered by: calvert

Message:
russ...the DL-1 is a diamond frame....the DL-2 is a step-through(as i recall)




Subject: raleigh catalogs
Entered on: Oct 25, 1997 00:47
Entered by: calvert

Message:
Anyone interested in a minty Raleigh catalog from the late 40's/early 50's?....all colour, 19 pages, also depicts the Lenton Sports, Robin Hoods, the dyno-luxe lighting system, full gear case bikes, &c....... $30ppd




Subject: raleigh catalogs
Entered on: Oct 25, 1997 01:08
Entered by: calvert

Message:
Anyone interested in a minty Raleigh catalog from the late 40's/early 50's?....all colour, 19 pages, also depicts the Lenton Sports, Robin Hoods, the dyno-luxe lighting system, full gear case bikes, &c....... $30ppd




Subject: Royal Enfield Classic II
Entered on: Oct 25, 1997 13:10
Entered by: john

Message:
I was given a mint condition Royal Enfield Classic II. I live in New York City and plan on using it around the streets. Does it have some value (beyond being a handsome bike) that I am not aware of?




Subject: The Mixte Question
Entered on: Oct 25, 1997 15:17
Entered by: johnB

Message:
Sheldon says a mixte must have three pairs of stays, so the Cannondale in question is NOT a mixte, but a step-through




Subject: Mixtes, stepthroughs, and a question of tubing...
Entered on: Oct 25, 1997 18:24
Entered by: Russ

Message:
Calvert, I stand corrected regarding model numbers. The lady's version of the DL-1 tourist, which probably was the DL-2 - grab your catalog and check! Next, it is good to know that Sheldon has weighed in on this one. Finally, what sort of Reynolds 531 was used in Raleigh Lentons? I have a frameset that was repainted, so no decals survived. It is c. 1958, 23-in., with a rear derailleur shifter boss brazed-on, as well as cable housing stops for the rear der. and rear brake. Is this simply 531 straightgauge, main frame only? Or is it the double-butted stuff?




Subject: Raleigh Superbe
Entered on: Oct 26, 1997 22:27
Entered by: Tim

Message:
I have a Raleigh Superbe I've been riding for 7 years now. In my years looking at and collecting English roadsters, I've never seen another. Does anyone out there have one or seen other riders with one? A few weeks back I sent a letter to an address in the UK looking for transfers. So far, no response from that source. I will keep you posted if something pans out.




Subject: RE: question of tubing...
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 09:12
Entered by: JimB

Message:
It's pretty easy to check the tubing to see if it's double-butted or straight-gauge tubing. Use your fingernail to tap on the tube from the end to the middle of the tube. The frequency of the noise will change for a double-butted frame tube, but will not change much for a straight-gauge tube. Try it first on a known double-butted tube to learn how it should sound.




Subject: Folding Raliegh 3 speed
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 14:04
Entered by: Brian

Message:
I recently acquired a green folding Raliegh 3 speed (Grip Shift). It is unlike most folding bikes that I have seen by Raliegh. This bike folds at the top tube but not to the side, it folds upwards and locks. The bike is fully fendered and has 16" X 2" Endrick Rims. The three speed hub is a Sturmey stamped AW 66 7. The serial number is on the rear wheel drop out stamped 0086562. The chrome rear rack seems to be stock. The seat may be an aftermarket made by Troxel. It is heavily cushioned and with a vinyl type upholstery. The only indentifying name plates and stickers is the Raliegh front plate on the head tube and a Raliegh medalion in the release knob for the folding handlebars. If anyone has any information it would be greatly appreciated.




Subject: Folding Raliegh 3-Speed.
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 14:17
Entered by: Brian

Message:
I recently acquired a folding Raliegh 3-speed(Grip Shift). It is nothing like most folding Ralieghs I have seen in my area. This bike folds upwards at the main frame tube and locks rather than to the side, like most I have seen. The folding bike is green (looks original) and is fully fendered. The rims are 16"X2" Endrick. The 3 speed hub is a Sturmey stamped AW 66 7. The serial number is stamped on the rear wheel dropout with the number 0086562. The only identifying Raliegh name plates and stickers are the head tube name plate and a Raliegh plastic medallion in the folding handlebar release knob. The bike also has a chrome rear rack over the the fender and has a Troxel seat. The seat seams to be a possible aftermarket. It is upholstered and is heavily cushioned. If anyone has any information in regards to this bike it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks




Subject: Folding Raliegh 3-Speed.
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 14:19
Entered by: Brian

Message:
I recently acquired a folding Raliegh 3-speed(Grip Shift). It is nothing like most folding Ralieghs I have seen in my area. This bike folds upwards at the main frame tube and locks rather than to the side, like most I have seen. The folding bike is green (looks original) and is fully fendered. The rims are 16"X2" Endrick. The 3 speed hub is a Sturmey stamped AW 66 7. The serial number is stamped on the rear wheel dropout with the number 0086562. The only identifying Raliegh name plates and stickers are the head tube name plate and a Raliegh plastic medallion in the folding handlebar release knob. The bike also has a chrome rear rack over the the fender and has a Troxel seat. The seat seams to be a possible aftermarket. It is upholstered and is heavily cushioned. If anyone has any information in regards to this bike it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks




Subject: RALEIGH SUPERBE
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 15:45
Entered by: Bill L

Message:
Tim, I have a Raleigh Superbe in olive green that is in very good condition. I'm almost finished minor restoration, n.o.s.tires,etc. What would you like to know?




Subject: Indian Three Speed
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 21:30
Entered by: Kevin

Message:
For years I have had a three speed with an Indian head plate. I picked it up because the logo was the same as Indian motorcycles. I know that Indian (American) built bicycles in the early part of this century. Also the Indian logo was used on motorcycles built by Royal Enfield in the mid-fifties. I suspect that this bycicle has a similair origin. Has anyone seen another Indian labeled English three speed? The frame has quite a bit of rake, more than the two or three other three speeds I have (Raleigh and Hercules). I didn't have anything more than frame, forks, and cranks. Does anyone have an idea who built these bicycles? It's apparent association with Indian motorcyles makes it interesting enough for me to look for the appropriate missing parts. I have most of a Hercules parts bike for the missing parts but would like to know more before I get too far into this. Thanks




Subject: Indian bicycles from blighty.....
Entered on: Oct 27, 1997 23:56
Entered by: calvert

Message:
Phillips Cycles Limited built the Indian bicycles sold @ Indian Motorcycle dealerships beginning in 1948...3 models: the Scout, the Princess, & the Cheif.......i don't know how long they were marketed by Indian but the latest S/A hub date i've ever seen on one was 1954.....they were available in black, maroon, & dark green--each color w/ gold pin striping....




Subject: ANOTHER RARE NAME???
Entered on: Oct 28, 1997 08:18
Entered by: Bob Marshall

Message:
Have a very old frame with decal headbadge in gold that reads ABERDALE CYCLE COMPANY LONDON N18. Figure this is turn of the century---anyone have any info on this obscure make ? Bob




Subject: Royal Scot for sale
Entered on: Oct 28, 1997 08:30
Entered by: Bob

Message:
Gold 5-speed full fenders and in great shape---Best offer 905-479-7526




Subject: 77 Raleigh Sports
Entered on: Oct 28, 1997 13:09
Entered by: Jeff Groberman

Message:
I recently purchased a 1977 Raleigh Sports in virtually showroom condition. Is the bike old enough to be a "collectors" item? If so what would it be worth?




Subject: Raleigh Superbe
Entered on: Oct 28, 1997 22:15
Entered by: Tim

Message:
Bill L Re; the Raleigh Superbe. I got this bike bike from my Uncle who rode it in Cleveland. It has a Dyno-hub, a Brooks B-66 saddle, front headlight, rear light and the bag. No pump though. I really wanted to see if anyone out there had one. I've been playing with English roadsters for years and I've never seen another. As a matter of fact, when I first saw it in my Uncle's garage, I really didn't know what I was looking at. At the time, I was riding a Rudge Sports and a Norman. After looking at an early 70's catalogue, I realized just what he had. He also had a rod-braked Raleigh which he (don't cringe) threw out!. He gave me the Superbe in l990. Mine is not in need of a restoration although I would like to find a proper pump.




Subject: RE: Indian bicycles from blighty.....
Entered on: Oct 29, 1997 08:02
Entered by: JimB

Message:
The Indian bicycle is very collectable. I was offered an Indian Princess from the early 1950's for $250 and passed on it. The guy sold it an hour later.




Subject: RE: 77 Raleigh Sports
Entered on: Oct 29, 1997 08:05
Entered by: JimB

Message:
It's not collectable yet, but it's a nice bike to keep and ride. I have a restored 1971 Raleigh Sports that my 9 year old daughter just loves.




Subject: Raleigh Superbe
Entered on: Oct 30, 1997 14:44
Entered by: Rino

Message:
I would like to find a superbe with a dyno hub. What is a fair price for this kind of bike, and what colors are they available in? Thanks for any info.




Subject: Need help finding Raleigh rim
Entered on: Oct 31, 1997 14:19
Entered by: JimB

Message:
I'm restoring my 1932 Raleigh and I'm having trouble locating a 40-spoke Raleigh style (26 X 1 3/8 inch) rim. The rims needs to be NOS or be capable of being cleaned up to look excellent. If anyone knows where I can find one, please let me know.




Subject: Cavalier
Entered on: Nov 1, 1997 02:06
Entered by: jerry

Message:
Anyone know anything aboul an english bike named cavalier? It's a good look'n womens touring type bicycle.




Subject: Odd rim size
Entered on: Nov 3, 1997 13:19
Entered by: JimB

Message:
A friend who is not into English bikes offered me a set of NOS 26 X 1 1/2 inch Dunlop Westwood rims. I have never heard of this size. Does anyone know what they were used on or whether you can still get tires for them?




Subject: 26x1 1/2" Rims
Entered on: Nov 3, 1997 18:27
Entered by: johnB

Message:
Jim, Sheldon [Tire Size] Brown has an extensive tire/ rim size chart with more of a euro lean than the one here In it he lists 26" x 1 1/2' as having a iso number of 635mm and its use as " Rod Braked English Roadsters " If I read the iso thing correctly, that would be the ACTUAL rim diameter. What a bizarre way to measure bicycle wheels ?! As for tires ? Good luck. The 635mm dia doesnt match any other so called 26" rim.




Subject: STOP THE PRESSES
Entered on: Nov 3, 1997 19:13
Entered by: johnB

Message:
Hold it ... I misread Sheldons chart. those numbers are for a 28 x 1 1/2" rim. I should have recognized the 26 x 1 1/2" size, as my wife had an early Raleigh Mountain bike with this size rim. This size is an ISO 584mm [23"] and from what I can tell, is not easy to get tires for either. In fact, we sold my wifes bike and bought a GT with "real" 26" wheels because we couldn't find knobby replacement tires.




Subject: RE: 26x1 1/2 Rims
Entered on: Nov 3, 1997 19:46
Entered by: TimH

Message:
Sutherlands lists 26X1 1/2 Rims as designation "F9". Equiv to French disignation "650B" and German designation "26x1 3/8". Bead diameter is 584.




Subject: Warped Gear Cases?
Entered on: Nov 3, 1997 21:29
Entered by: MartinH

Message:
Two of my English bikes with full gear cases have this same problem: the right crank rubs against the gear case. I can manually push in on the case and with a 'thonk' it moves clear of the crank, but once I let go it thonks back into the crank space. This 'thonk' that I am attempting to describe is similar to how a soda can reacts when you push in on the side of it and then let go. What can be done to alleviate this problem? Any suggestions?




Subject: RE: Warped Gear Cases?
Entered on: Nov 4, 1997 10:17
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Make sure it's not being caused by a bent crank arm. If you are sure the crank arms are straight, then remove the cover from the bike and check for a bent or damaged cover. If bent, the cover will either have to be repaired or replaced.




Subject: For Sale: 28" x 1-1/2" wheelset
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 01:11
Entered by: David

Message:
I have an extra pair of 28" x 1-1/2" wheels with "Westwood" style rims that are for a Raleigh Tourist-style rod brake bike. They are black and in vg/excellent shape. The rims, however, aren't english; as I recall they're either dutch or japanese. They were purchased in 1986 and have seen little use. The rear has a 197x Sturmey AW 3-speed hub which is crisp and clean. Tires (vg condition) included. New set of 4 rim brake shoes (not Raleigh but functionally equivalent; fit on DL-1) included if buyer asks nicely. $150 + ship.




Subject: 3-speed English
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 08:57
Entered by: Dave

Message:
Hi, I'm looking for a 3-speed English bike, I'm assuming it would be from the late 1950's. Does anyone know where one of these touring bikes can be obtained??




Subject: 3-speed English
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 08:58
Entered by: Dave

Message:
Hi, I'm looking for a 3-speed English bike, I'm assuming it would be from the late 1950's. Does anyone know where one of these touring bikes can be obtained?? I've heard rumors that they still make these in Noddingham, England...




Subject: Raleigh Tourist
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 12:31
Entered by: Tim

Message:
I am currently starting a resto on a Raleigh Tourist. 24" w/28"tires. I need front and rear fenders (mudguards) and a tire and tube. Any help in this area would be appreciated. Thanks




Subject: RE: 3-Speed English Bike
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 13:12
Entered by: JimB

Message:
If you want a new one, they are still being made in England and other countries. Check out this web page for the US distributor: http://www.eskimo.com/~mdekker/classic.htm. If you are looking for a used one, put ads on the bulletin boards at bike shops and universities, shop the garage sales, visit the second-hand shops, and ask around to friend and relatives over 50 years old. Garage sales and estate sales in retirement areas and older sections of cities are other good spots to look. Take a load of $1, $5, and $10 bills and a large vehicle like a picup or station wagon.




Subject: RE: Warped Gear Cases?
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 13:16
Entered by: MartinH

Message:
JimB, thanks for your response. The problem is with the case and not the crank arm. When looking down while sitting on the bike, I can see that the case is not parallel to the frame and the front end of the case juts out just enought to rub against the crank. As I said before, I am able to move the case into the proper position - but it does not stay that way. As soon as I take my hand away, it pops back out of position. It is likely a bent gear case. Any suggestions on how to repair one of these?




Subject: RE: Warped Gear Cases?
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 15:02
Entered by: JimB

Message:
That's a real tough one. Have you checked the mounting screws and brackets to see if they are all there, undamaged, and tight? Have you tried removing the crank arm and cover, then re-seating it? That's about all I can think of. This sounds like it is becoming a question for Sheldon Brown.




Subject: Dyno-Hub and Lamps
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 16:25
Entered by: Randolph

Message:
I have a new old stock Dyno-hub, front lamp and tail light. The lamp and tail light are Sturmey Archer. I also have the clamp that the light sits on in the front. The clamp attaches to the stem and has an "R " engraved in it as well as the Raleigh Bird (dont know what type of bird it is) Does anyone have anything they would like to trade for this?




Subject: RE: Warped Gear Cases?
Entered on: Nov 5, 1997 16:40
Entered by: MartinH

Message:
Thanks for the suggestions. I actually took the whole case off and remounted it on the bicycle. So all screws etc. are accounted for and tight - but the problem persists. I will wait a few days to see if any of our friends here can help out. If not, then I will send a message out to Sheldon Brown. If he has the answer, I will post it here. Thanks again.




Subject: over 50, eh?
Entered on: Nov 7, 1997 09:43
Entered by: Philsh

Message:
Friends and neighbors over 50 are going to have old English weenie bikes, are they? I'm talking a little tonge in cheek here, but as an 'over 50 dude' I must say: What do you squids see in these English 3-speeds? They have featureless diamond frames, no character, every one looks the same, they do a poor job at everything (not fast, not good looking, heavy). So, what is the facination? When I first started seeing them in shops in the early 50s I saw them as just typically British.




Subject: RE: over 50, eh?
Entered on: Nov 7, 1997 13:14
Entered by: JimB

Message:
I posted the over 50 comment. Considering they stopped selling them in the mainstream around 20 years ago, you'll find most of them in the possession of people over 50. Us over 40 people were more into 10-speeds at the time. As to why people like them, I like them for a number of reasons. They are *very* plentiful in my area of the US and as a result, they are dirt cheap to buy. In fact, many have been either given to me or I purchased them for $1-$15. They are uniquely British in character (i.e. "This is the way our bikes should be because this is the way we have been making them for the last 100 years"). They are totally indestructable. Even a bike that has been neglected for 30 years still fuctions well. Try that with a 10-speed. Parts are totally interchangeable with only a few exceptions. This helps a lot when doing a nice restoration on a slim budget. Some of my best restorations have less than $50 invested in the whole project. Finally, the rod brake bikes are real head-turners in this era of the cruiser. I get stopped on the bike trails all the time when riding my fully restored Dunelt rod brake roadster.




Subject: More on why we like English 3-speeds
Entered on: Nov 7, 1997 12:51
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Because the bikes are inexpensive and have upright handlebars, everyone in my extended family who is capable of riding a bike has asked me to restore one for them. This past summer, I completed the last one. All of them love their English bike and would never dream of letting it go. I can't get my 9 year old daughter off her 1971 Raleigh Sports long enough to break in her Cannondale mountain bike.




Subject: Why we like English 3-speeds
Entered on: Nov 7, 1997 13:51
Entered by: Dave

Message:
Age of the persons or the bikes is irrelevant. What counts is quality, integrity and sound construction. English bikes have all three in spades and, like Jim B said, they will literally last forever. When Philsh says "typically British" I have to assume he is referring to such "typically British" products as Jaguar XKs, Supercharged 4 1/2 litre Bentleys, Aston Martins, Rolls-Royce Silver Ghosts, Vincent HRD motorcycles, Barbour jackets, bespoke tweeds, green wellies and, yes, Raleigh bikes. They all have superb engineering, innovative yet practical design and the build quality of Big Ben. And, to my eye, they are quite beautiful in their straightforward, no-nonsense way.




Subject: Why we like English 3-speeds
Entered on: Nov 7, 1997 13:58
Entered by: Dave

Message:
Age of the persons or the bikes is irrelevant. What counts is quality, integrity and sound construction. English bikes have all three in spades and, like Jim B said, they will literally last forever. When Philsh says "typically British" I have to assume he is referring to such "typically British" products as Jaguar XKs, Supercharged 4 1/2 litre Bentleys, Aston Martins, Rolls-Royce Silver Ghosts, Vincent HRD motorcycles, Barbour jackets, bespoke tweeds, green wellies and, yes, Raleigh bikes. They all have superb engineering, innovative yet practical design and the build quality of Big Ben. And, to my eye, they are quite beautiful in their straightforward, no-nonsense way.




Subject: English Roadsters as emblematic, historic pieces
Entered on: Nov 7, 1997 19:31
Entered by: Russ

Message:
I must join in, now that Philsh has thrown the gauntlet, so to speak. English roadsters are perhaps the triumph of the bicycle as no-nonsense transportation. I can hear the partisans of the mountain bike leap to their feet ... but consider these facts: unlike derailleur bikes in general and mountain bikes as a whole, these machines came stock with fenders. Ever ridden to work in damp weather on a bike without them? Messy. The ones with the fully-enclosed gearcases were designed to run forever with minimal cleaning, minimal fuss. The internal gearing really does seem to last forever. My '62 Dawes 4-speed looked uglier than home-made sin when I got it, and the rust made the poor dear redder than the flags used to be over Lenin's tomb. It is nothing short of amazing how well this bike had held up, though. Some strenuous cleaning, repacking bearings and replacing consumeables led to a machine that is sturdy, reliable, and a joy in traffic. I can ride to work in a suit and not look ridiculous on the thing, and the really funny thing is, all the students who see this bike love it and want me to find machines like it for them. There is something deliciously anti-consumer, anti-marketing driven and outrageously conservative about them. Simply put, the old British bikes were designed to last almost forever, and the componentry stayed pretty standardized because it worked. There really is almost a century of tradition behind these bikes, and it was based on stuff that worked. In a day and time when the S company changes standards at will, when the latest technological fad is trumpeted as progress, and nobody seems to learn anything about the past, this is refreshing. You want subversive? Find an old Raleigh. Finally, if you want a bike for conspicuous consumption, go buy some carbon fiber thing like the racers in the newsgroups complain about when the frames fall apart after two seasons. If you want a bike that you can ride, enjoy, and pass on to your children, find a good old Brit bike, oil that Sturmey routinely, and learn to smile tolerantly at people in search of the next big thing.




Subject: Why we like English 3 speeds
Entered on: Nov 8, 1997 01:06
Entered by: Tim

Message:
Hey Dave, In your why we like English 3 speeds retort to Phish, you forgot to mention BSA Gold Stars, Ariel Square Fours, MGTCs and TDs,Triumph TR 3's, 4's, Morgans, Morris Minor Travellers,Hillman Huskys, Beef Wellington, Jaffa cakes, Lotus seven's, warm beer, Pubs, Austin A55 Cambridge's, Woolsley Hornets, Mini Coopers,Daimler Darts and of course Humber.




Subject: More Anglophillia
Entered on: Nov 8, 1997 19:13
Entered by: johnB

Message:
...Steak and kidney pie, Fullers E.S.B., Baked beans for breakfast, Monty Python, Mr. Bean, Vera Lynn, Supermarine Spitfires, Bangers And Mash, Samuel Smith Old Brewery Pale Ale, Crop Circles...




Subject: anglophilia, con'd
Entered on: Nov 8, 1997 21:47
Entered by: Russ

Message:
...also tea time, Short Magazine Lee Enfields, Carradice saddlebags, Brooks saddles, really cool pith helmets, the ability to wear bowler hats and not look silly, Peter Sellers, ....




Subject: more anglophile
Entered on: Nov 9, 1997 08:58
Entered by: Tim

Message:
...Austin Healy Bugeye Sprite, 3000, Singer Gazelle, Sunbeam Alpine, Norton Manx, AJS "Teacup Twin", neat old castles, Fawlty Towers and WALLACE & GROMIT!




Subject: Why we like English 3 speeds and other stuff...
Entered on: Nov 9, 1997 14:55
Entered by: Scott

Message:
On the streets of Manhattan, there is nothing better than a "3-speed", and, sorry to say, that includes mountain bikes. Having borrowed a high-end mountain bike from a friend, it was a relief to get back on my 3-speed Triumph- far more comfortable in the stop and go heavy traffic of the big city. By the way, not all 3 speed bikes are English, nor are they obsolete- the last time I was in Holland, almost everyone was riding a Batavus or Gazzelle-contemporary models at that-though many were the new 7-speed Nexus gearing.




Subject: Why we like English 3 speeds
Entered on: Nov 9, 1997 15:04
Entered by: Scott

Message:
And as for visual appeal, have you ever seen anything as lovely as a Pashley 3 speed?? I own a 16 speed Masi, an 18 speed Colnago and a 3 speed Triumph.. But what I REALLY want is that Pashley!




Subject: even more anglophilia...
Entered on: Nov 9, 1997 15:17
Entered by: Scott

Message:
You all forgot to mention a few other minor British contibutions, like THE BEATLES, The Rolling Stones, Eric Clapton, Led Zep, Parliamentary Rules of government, etc., etc., etc....




Subject: anglophilia
Entered on: Nov 9, 1997 18:43
Entered by: Kevin

Message:
BREN guns, and the concept of innocent until proven guilty




Subject: S/A 5 speed hub
Entered on: Nov 9, 1997 19:04
Entered by: Kevin

Message:
I was digging through my pile of wheels and pulled out a Sturmey Archer S-5 (five speed, 1969). I don't where I got it or how long I've had it. I don't believe I've ever noticed a bicycle equiped with one. My question is: What do they use for a trigger (shift)? I am taking for granted that the hub operates basically the same as a three speed hub. I would like to put it on the road but need some information. Thanks. By the way in the list of good Englsih stuff did anybody mention Sturmey Archer specifically? ( know its a division of Raliegh) and how about Rolls Royce Aircraft Engines?




Subject: The "over 50" comment
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 09:18
Entered by: JimB

Message:
I didn't mean anything derogatory about the bikes or the "over 50" owners of Brit bikes. It was only based on my experience in buying the bicycles I own from their previous owner. With only one exception, everyone selling me an English 3-speed appeared to be over 50. The once exception was the Dunelt rod brake roadster that I puchased from the grand daughter of the original owner. There is a whole new generation that is discovering the joys of English 3-speeds. Plus, those who are over 50 and sold theirs now want them back after seeing nicely restored examples on the road. These bikes have met the test of time for over 100 years and will be loved by future generations who need personal mobility on a local level.




Subject: Re: over 50 and Brit bikes
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 10:00
Entered by: Philsh

Message:
JimB, I didn't think you meant anything malicious. It was a good opening for me. Now, when you all list your 'super good Brit' stuff in the previous messages you are just reinforcing my point. Tweed jackets? "Conservative"? - my points exactly! And why didn't anyone mention Lucas Electrics, huh?




Subject: 3-speed
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 13:38
Entered by: WesK

Message:
The 3-speed is one of the best bikes to ever travel on US ground. I myself own several, but only one is an actual British bike-a 1957 Royal York that was originally equiped with a sturmey-archer sw 3-speed hub. The rest of my bikes are sears and murry brands from the early 70. But I preffer my York anyday.




Subject: 3-speeders
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 13:47
Entered by: WesK

Message:
one of my more favorite American models is my 71 American Flyer. It is very light and has a smooth operating Shimano 3.3.3 hub. The 3.3.3 hub is very quite and works well. The sw hub that was on the York always slipped in high gear, so I finally got an aw to replace it. I would upgrade all my shimano hubs to aw's if I had the time and money. The aw hub has never given me any trouble. The shimanos have always needed a little readjustment after every ride.




Subject: Royal York
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 17:16
Entered by: WesK

Message:
Does anybody have a chain gaurd for a 1957 Royal York? The bike is a non-Raleigh English-made 3-speed. The Bike I have is a classic black color with the three-color gold Royal-York decals. Does anybody know anything about the Royal York Bikes? And are there any others here in the states?




Subject: Witcomb information
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 20:09
Entered by: pj

Message:
i own a 10spd Witcomb road bike that i bought used in the mid 1980's. i was told that it was an ex race bike at the time. the frame is made in London England. this is about all i know about this bike. any one that has information about the company or the product please e-mail me.




Subject: Philsh & rounding up the usual anglo-imagry.........
Entered on: Nov 10, 1997 23:41
Entered by: calvert

Message:
My first impressions of things english turned me into a knee-jerk anglophobe....early exposure to my visiting & insufferable liverpuddlian cousins (....a GI marriage....hillbilly/brit)...)led me to associate anything english with "hooligan".....until i discovered a Dunult 3spd Sport that did a whole lot better @ hillhopping & ridgerunning the Alleghenys (Penna Appalachia)than my Schwinn straight-bar ballooner (my first wheel)then i discovered that tweeds do a first rate job of keeping you warm in a cold wind, &c......years later, i'm still an anglophobe but i'm less likely to dismiss a technical solution simply because its british in origin..... ...when the US market stopped considering the bicycle serious adult transportation the brits continued to develope it and eventually turned it into a very reliable means of getting around.......& for many years, until the introduction of the paramount and superior models, schwinn used BSA components for its light wt racing bikes.... very much to my surprise, my cousins turned out to be alright too....& i especially liked those Matchbox series cars & lorrys they'd send my brother & me every year @ Christmas time.....




Subject: I found some shifter cables
Entered on: Nov 11, 1997 08:38
Entered by: JimB

Message:
I just bought a quantity of NOS Sturmey Archer shifter cables used on English 3-speeds and have more than I will ever need. These have the threaded end that goes into the shifter, but they will also work with the newer 3-speed shifters. These shifter cables have been out of production for almost 20 years. I have silver ones and white ones. Please e-mail me and I will let you know the details.




Subject: I question Sturmey-Archer hubs!
Entered on: Nov 11, 1997 08:47
Entered by: Philsh

Message:
Well how great are these hubs? How many times have you been standing on the pedals while humping up a hill and the d*mn hub skips and you slam your (self) down on the top tube? I know someone here is going to say it is only because the flipping indicator chain was not properly adjusted and I say poppycock (see I can talk Brit, too). It is all part of the design, and I'll tell you those SA transmissions just cannot take the leverage of a 200 pound adult pumping up an incline.




Subject: Never Mind the Bullocks
Entered on: Nov 11, 1997 10:33
Entered by: Mark A

Message:
I just thought I'd offer my 2 cents on the recent discussions of "all things bright and British." While I ride a 1930s Raleigh DL-1 because I like it, and because I think I can sometimes negotiate the bicycle within the social spaces of streets and roads as an type of anti-consumerist sign, I think we have to remember that any "subversive" possibilities of this kind are highly circumscribed. As Stuart Hall has demonstrated in his book on Thatherism in the UK, A HARD ROAD TO RENEWAL, a nostalgia for the British roadster of the pre-war depression era was successfully manipulated by the conservatives in the UK in order to win popular consent for their slashing of social programs and their implementing a austerity plan whose sacrifices were primarily borne by the working classes. Finally, I really love riding and touring on these bikes as much as anyone, but while these bicycles were a part of a vibrant popular culture, they were also mass produced commodities, and, thus, manufactured under the "not-so-nice" conditions of mass industrial production. We should never forget that they were made by workers under highly rationalized and alienated conditions and that firms like Raleigh, while making a fine product, were profit-driven and placed bicycles-as-commodities before people. Without false idealism then, I always try to enjoy my bicycle as a remnant of these workers' lives and labors, their joys AND their sufferings.




Subject: Here Come The...
Entered on: Nov 11, 1997 16:00
Entered by: johnB

Message:
...And Malcom Mc Claren never had profit in mind when he "Invented" the Sex Pistols...It's just a Raliegh, man. Would you ride a Chinese bike ? How about a Taiwanese bike ? Did Raliegh workers of the '60s and '70s make a decent living? How many of them would Love to have a job like that today? Is every item I own a political football ? Do I really have to boycott Kathy Lee Gifford's beautiful clothes from K-Mart? Let's go for a bike ride...




Subject: Shimano or Sturmey-Archer hubs?
Entered on: Nov 11, 1997 15:40
Entered by: WesK

Message:
I dare to question which is better: the time tested AW hub, or the Shimano 3.3.3. I've had both good and bad experiences with both, but which will rule supreme?




Subject: Re: Shimano or Sturmey-Archer hubs
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 09:42
Entered by: Sheldon Brown

Message:
The Shimano 333 hub is a bit lighter than the Sturmey-Archer AW, but has a very bad track record for failing under the weight of American riders. They are also generally not reperable when they fail...there were too many versions of them, and the usual failure mode is that a pawl or other small part breaks, then jams up the works and leads to further damage to other parts. By contrast, most Sturmey-Archer hubs that need repair don't need parts, but just cleaning and lubrication. "Philsh" asked: >Well how great are these hubs? How many times have you been >standing on the pedals while humping up a hill and >the d*mn hub skips and you slam your (self) down on the top tube? You should never stand while pedaling on an internal-gear hub. If you have to stand, it means that either your saddle is too low, or that your gear is too high. If you are interestd in English Roadsters, check out my page on English 3-speeds at: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/english_3_speeds.html Sheldon "Epicyclic" Brown Newtonville, Massachusetts +----------------------------------------+ | Yet Britain set the world ablaze, | | In good King George's glorious days! | | --W.S. Gilbert | +----------------------------------------+ Sheldon Brown




Subject: RE: SA hubs can't take the pounding
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 12:37
Entered by: JimB

Message:
"It is all part of the design, and I'll tell you those SA transmissions just cannot take the leverage of a 200 pound adult pumping up an incline." -- I fit that description exactly and I have never had a problem with my Sturmey Archer hubs. Of course, I keep mine in top shape and when they need a rebuild, I have a skilled expert like Sheldon Brown rebuild them. Sheldon is doing the front and read hubs on my 1932 Raleigh this week. When complete, that bike will be used to tackle some moderate hills in New England.




Subject: More on SA hubs can't take the pounding
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 12:43
Entered by: JimB

Message:
When I do long rides in the hills or mountains, I always opt for either my Cannondale mountain bike or my vintage road bike. Three speeds are meant for rides along rivers, rides through urban areas, and rides along the seacoast. You need the right equipment if you are planning to do some heavy hills.




Subject: Witcomb bikes
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 13:20
Entered by: PJ

Message:
does any one know any thing about Witcomb bicycles? has any one heard of Witcomb bicycles?




Subject: Still looking for English rims
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 15:26
Entered by: JimB

Message:
Has anyone had any luck in locating 26 X 1 3/8 inch Endrick or Raleigh style rims? I can find every other part on the English bikes, but the rims are just impossible to find. I hate to pay $60 each to have old ones re-chromed, but it's getting to that point.




Subject: SA hubs
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 15:55
Entered by: WesK

Message:
I'm going to have to agree with Sheldon on the Sturmey Archer vs. 333 hubs. The SA's are also much more straight forward to dismantle and clean. One of the biggest problems I have had with the 333 is that there is only an axle flat on ONE side, and I have had the axle roll out of the rear dropout on a bike with extremely low gearing(28t chainring driving a 18t rear sprocket). I am much more comfortable on a SA knowing that the axle is being held in place much better with double flats. As for slipping, I have never ever had a properly adjusted and oiled AW hub slip in ANY condition. If the hub slips or doesn't make a nice ratchet sound, then it's probably time to overhaul.




Subject: Woodrup Frame
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 18:26
Entered by: pat

Message:
21.5 cm frame-never put together-1982 How much is it worth?




Subject: Phlish & what the heck happened to my message?
Entered on: Nov 12, 1997 22:00
Entered by: calvert

Message:
i'll try it again.....in response to Philsh....... My first impressions of things english turned me into a knee-jerk anglophobe....early exposure to my visiting & insufferable liverpuddlian cousins (....a GI marriage....hillbilly/brit)...)led me to associate anything english with "hooligan".....until i discovered a Dunult 3spd Sport that did a whole lot better @ hillhopping & ridgerunning the Alleghenys (Penna Appalachia)than my Schwinn straight-bar ballooner (my first wheel)then i discovered that tweeds do a first rate job of keeping you warm in a cold wind, &c......years later, i'm still an anglophobe but i'm less likely to dismiss a technical solution simply because its british in origin..... ...when the US market stopped considering the bicycle serious adult transportation the brits continued to develope it and eventually turned it into a very reliable means of getting around.......& for many years, until the introduction of the paramount and superior models, schwinn used BSA components for its light wt racing bikes.... very much to my surprise, my cousins turned out to be alright too....& i especially liked those Matchbox series cars & lorrys they'd send my brother & me every year @ Christmas time.....




Subject: More on the shift cables
Entered on: Nov 13, 1997 08:14
Entered by: JimB

Message:
A few days ago I posted a note regarding the excess NOS Sturmey Archer shift cables I have. Last night I measured them and the plastic sheath is 17 1/2 inches long. There are two types -- smooth silver/grey and ribbed white. The overall length from tip to tip is approximately 55 1/2 inches.




Subject: Don't forget the BBC
Entered on: Nov 13, 1997 15:28
Entered by: Patricia

Message:
I do not own any English bikes and I am impressed and slightly intimidated by ya'lls knowledge of these machines. I ran into a guy selling a not-British bike but I thought it might be a knock-off so maybe someone has some info. He said it was a late 40's Takai (Taiwan??) It had those hand brakes that extend the length of the handle bars (i don't know the term for them). It had a completely enclosed chain guard, which compared to 50's american chain guards, was quite large. It had a closepin (nomenclature?) seat and a very sturdy wicker basket in back. It was a large/tall frame (big enough for a 34" inseam and then some). The guy wanted $200 for it. It was pretty rusty. He said it was rare, but the guy was a salesman so of course he was trying to get his $200. Is it worth it? Is it rare? It sure was neat lookin'. I don't remember how many speeds it was. Any info much appreciated.




Subject: RE: The value of English bikes
Entered on: Nov 14, 1997 08:06
Entered by: JimB

Message:
A bicycle is only worth what someone will pay for it. You should keep in mind that English style bicycles with enclosed gear rear hubs are the most prolific type of bike in the world. They were first made in the late 19th century and have been sold in the millions in one form or another in every former British colony and former trading partner. Keep in mind Britain was a powerful manufacturing and trading partner in the 19th century and the early 20th century. These bikes are still being made in England, Holland, Scandanavia, Asia (especially China), and Africa. In fact, they are considered "the family car" in China and Africa. What this means is there are hundreds of millions of these bikes someplace on this planet. Now most of us reading this discussion group live somplace in North America. The number of these bikes in North America is probably less than 1% of the total worldwide. Most of those in North America are concentrated in the 'rust belt' of the US and Canada because that's where most of the population lived when those types of bicycles were sold. The point I am trying to make is a specific type of 3-speed might be very rare where you live, but it's not rare on the world market. As prices increase, more of these used bikes located in cheaper areas are brought to high demand areas and sold for good money. That's why they will never be high-priced collectors items. As I said before, a bike is only worth what you are willing to pay.




Subject: and more comments
Entered on: Nov 14, 1997 18:41
Entered by: Kevin

Message:
I have really enjoyed the discussion regarding the merits (and demerits) of English Three Speeds. I am a middle aged guy who has been "playing" with bicycles for years. I have only been THINKING about bicycles since I got on the net (recently) and began reading some of other people's comments. I find the bicycle community to be as "fad" driven as any other. Twenty years ago I provided amusement to the some of my friends who were driven by ten speeds and tire width measured in fractions of an inch when I mounted a five speed tandem wheel (internal drum brake) on a Schwinn frame fixed up two caliper brakes in front and another in the rear (2.125 tyres of course). Four brake levers on those steerhorn handle bars along with thumb shifts. (I wanted to ride in the hills of So. Arizona and my road bike wouldn't do.) Now nearly everyone with more than one bicycle has at least one mountain bike. (most all of which are better than my Schwinn was) Attempting to get back to the point I want to make. If you want a mountain bike - get one. If your goal in cycling is measured in grams don't buy an English Three Speed. They are not Beach Cruisers either. Most bicycles have their place and for many that place is a specialized one. The very reason these bicycles (three speeds) will not preform specialized taskes as well as specialized bikes is the very reason they are great bikes. They are versitile. I believe they will work well for 90% of the riding many (90%?) of us do 90% of the time. I can use a specific bike when I want to do a specific task, but I can (and like to) use my "general" three speed for general tasks. I have invested ("invested" is what I tell my wife)hundreds of dollars in a couple of my bicycles and still most often get out a twenty five year old Raliegh when I ride for pure pleasure. By the way any of you know the Colin Laing the frame builder? I ran into him a week or two ago and got to talk English cycling with him for nearly and hour. A real gentleman and a store of information!




Subject: 3-speed Raliegh Tourist for sale
Entered on: Nov 16, 1997 18:36
Entered by: DJD

Message:
For sale to best offer: Raleigh DL-1 tourist, early 1950s; 24" c-t. Frame was repainted and all parts rechromed about a year ago. Full chain-case; rear dyno-hub. Wheels and tires are new & unridden. New brooks saddle with spring at each corner. The bike is very plain looking: gloss black with a couple of thin red & gold pinstripes, "RALEIGH" on chaincase in small letters. Everything has been renewed down to the brake linkage bolts; this is for all intents and purposes a brand new bike. It is surplus to our needs. Pls. advise if interested. I have no idea what this is worth, and will likely simply take the best offer.