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AGE / VALUE:   Brooks enters the clothing market posted by: Chris on 2/17/2011 at 7:20:39 PM

take a look at "the Brooks Blog" at the "Brooks England" website
the John Boultbee criterion mk 1


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Brooks enters the clothing market posted by Chris on 2/17/2011 at 7:25:50 PM
also take a look what the long secret underground Brooks Vault in Smethwick has revealed............

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MISC:   OK... what month is.... 16? posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/16/2011 at 9:13:41 AM
OK.... getting ready to start all the long overdue "updates" on the DL-1. One of which it swapping in an NOS Dynohub 3 into the rear wheel...

Looking at the hub the date code is 69 and... 16?

I didn't realize the British calendar had 16 months?

I'm figuring one of the numbers is superfluous.... 1969 is doggone close enough.

Though any insights pursuant to this conundrum... would be appreciated.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Leap year has NOTHING on this hub!

           RE:MISC:   OK... what month is.... 16? posted by Roderic D. Schmidt on 2/17/2011 at 9:18:08 AM
Hi Larry
I have an AW hub from 1969 with 14 for the month. I've heard that it was a stamp for fortnights instead of months, but I've never heard of a stamp greater than the high teens, and it ought to go to 26 in that case. I've also heard human error, maybe someone's useless nephew had a summer job through nepotism stamping hub shells in the summer of 1969?


           RE:MISC:   OK... what month is.... 16? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/17/2011 at 10:29:40 AM
Hmmmm.... well... seems as likely as anything else, eh?

Fun stuff!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Numbers DO lie?

           RE:RE:MISC:   OK... what month is.... 16? posted by Chris on 2/17/2011 at 7:34:55 PM
Shhh, they don't know about that. I let 16,000 hubs slip thru before caught it and I re- set the machine, don't be so picky yes, I'm a nephew and who ya calling useless?

We see the mistakes But I would like to hear about what former employees did to the stuff they got to take home for their own bikes that we will never hear about.

           RE:MISC:   OK... what month is.... 16? posted by Keith Body on 2/19/2011 at 1:33:32 PM
Gentlemen, My calendar shows the 16th month as "Octember"

I think most repetive work in the Raleigh factory was carried out in a zombie like trance, for personal preservation. There is a scene in the film "Saturday night and Sunday morning" actually shot in the raleigh works, the actor is seen on an automatic turning bottom bracket axles.
I doubt if most of them even gave bikes a single thought when not at work.

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AGE / VALUE:   The Power of Sir Frank Bowden, and his son Sturmey conquered all competition posted by: Chris on 2/14/2011 at 7:11:00 PM
One of my Books is Raleigh and the British bicycle Industry and the olther one is: Framing production a social and business history. It gives an insight on just what grade of Businessman/ stragetigical genius/ cutthroat navigator Sir Frank Bowden was.

Bowden bought into Raleigh bicycle's founders: Woodhead Angois and Ellis and was a driving force with business capital and steel nerve and absolute vision and after blaming them for a nice list of fauults they were summiliary dismissed from their last business meeting while the directors discussed their position upon their return to the bicycle factory itself, they resigned on the spot!

A good number of lets wind up the company and sell it to Bowden numbers later

A few stragetic chess moves to edge out potential rivals and some good enthralling battles he secured his Pre- eminince and then secured his son's place as Company heir a move that lasted into the 1930's Then Bowden J.R. took over in 1921 and then it was passed to George Wilson a company man who was groomed take over and that lasted until 1960 ( early 1960's) when just barely into the merger with B.C.C. Wilson was killed in a car accident on the way home from work along with his gardiner.

But what has me intrigued and it is in the Sturmey- Archer Story book by Tony Hadland if you read between the lines .... Is that Bowden took a controlling and paternal interest in Sturmey- Archer formation. He not only funded and guided but when you look at what Bowden did behind the scenes TO THE COMPETITION!! with his son and all of Bowden's friends and "W.H. Raven who imported all his pals from Birmingham who were planted in stragetic positions in the Sturmey-Archer?? ( OR OTHER RIVAL COMPANIES PERHAPS?) HMMMMM........... works and the gestapo hadn't much they could teach!

No I am getting at the fact that there were a good number of other rival companies like Armstrong who had a 5 storey factory and had a way, way better hub that had fewer parts in it and it was a better product.

B.S.A. Is mentioned

Look at all the other names of hub gear factories mentioned in Hadland's Book

Sure, they didn't have Bowden funding them but no matter they had their own funding by other equally as rich figures in the trade.

Hercules was a deadly enemy to Raleigh! Gave Bowden, his son and other Sturmey( Raleigh ) people fits! they threatened and had actual Hercules 3 speed hubs way better stuff up their sleave and were threatening to put it on the market and take over Sturmey- Archer's business

there was back room bribery, deals, trade protection schemes, if you don't do this we won't do this to you over here lets set it up, control, and rig the whole game. They failed at the last moment to buy Hercules because Crane liked torturing the Bowdens and Hercules was sold in 1946 to T.I. for a good amount of liquid cash following the war which paid everybody mightily well.

My point is all the other companies got infiltrated and summilary wiped from existance in quick, deadly fashion! BOWDEN WAS SOMETHING ELSE! On the surface but more so intrieguing behind the scenes with formidible influence to eliminate all potential competition to his beloved Sturmey- Archer that paid so well it was a HUGE ASSET and anybody and everybody else had to go. not infilitrated and water down and cheapened then badge engineered but it disappeared like Jimmy Hoffa!

Collecting the 3 speed hubs? I been all thru it!!

The stuff was too well built, too simple, too reliable, too long lasting and too good to be allowed to live!

The B.S.A 3 speed was a old pattern Sturmey- Archer hub and that died in 1955 with B.S.A.

But all the really good stuff the better of the best stuff is gone and was taken out early on like 1909- teens Bowden went hunting and hung the horns of companies and inventory as trophies.

There is more to this, the Sturmey- Archer and the 3 speed hub was big$$ business and Bowden was DETERMINED, PURPOSED AND DEADLY in CRUSHING OPPONETS as a matter of course . Bowden was an ace business man and must have enjoyed it as sport!

This is why we don't have Armstrong 3 speed hubs in out bikes the real ones.

Go hunting the antique hubs found in 1900 early bikes the non Raleigh stuff. It's the best magic of it all.

Bowden came and damned it all out of existence and the history is really only in the Hadland book. Shame we don't know more we never will. The cycling press was controled and often by Bowden

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Power of Sir Frank Bowden, and his son Sturmey conquered all competition posted by Chris on 2/16/2011 at 7:14:46 PM
Yes, we can say that Sir Frank Bowden was British bicycling's "J.P.Morgan"

I ran across a very early Armstrong 3 speed hub acquired it along the way from the basement of an old shop. Not bought from a collector but it fell into my hands by accident. It was an accident I didn't keep it.

To be honest I didn't think it was complete not enough parts but it was all there and could have been been laced into a bike and ridden. I didn't have the sense to know what I had and let it slip out of my hands. Later, my bike mentor called me a "danged fool" for letting that one slip out of my hands. No, it was a rare piece, original from about the turn of the century!!

I left a vintage Sturmey hub with a bike shop pal and he took it upon himself to open it up and when I returned they were examing the bronze brake inside it and we talking about how overbuilt it was.

I answered an e- mail from a fellow about 4 years ago he asked me about a certain brand of bike and I didn't know and then he mentioned an old lady who had paper files in her attic in England and I urged him to get at those papers and acquire them and he opened them up and they were actual missing corporate papers from Rudge Whitworth and the brand of bike that got us into it was some minor company Rudge bought up. I lost touch with him but I did guide him enough to get him to get his hands on those papers.

We got a glimpse of how industry worked in: Tucker the man and his dream. the same stuff happened in the bicycle business it was just as huge and important as the auto industry.

Bring something too good, too ahead of it's time, challenge and break taboo's and it disappears forever.

Gears that will make the bike literally leave the ground yes the flying bicycle I have no doubt it was already invented and shown off and somebody had grande ideas to make everybody better off and somebody wanted to provide himself a nice living and something unfortunite happened and the person, compamy, dream and the prototype (s) itself vanished.
They say Nikola Tesla had a flying machine of his own invention and that he was seen flying in the thing it's a riddle preserved in the book and if you are cleaver enough perhaps you can figure it out.

I don't care if there are dogs or if the book has green mold on it- Get them loaden up into the car and look thru it all! It could just be early copies of Raymond Palmer's "Fate magazine" of something even more strange and wonderful. I remember one book dealer asking: "Where did you get the Fates? I guess the early ones are rare?
Ah, chasing the winds! Trash picking, gargage sales, estate sales getting into the barn that nobody wants to let you pick thru. I think of the Joker from Batman Beyond: Such Secrets, Brucie!

In closing I tip my hat and raise my glass to Hillary Stone across the pond and wonder just what all he's found, seen and how even he must have gone speechless and shook his head at what he's seen and been fortunite enough to buy.

Has it ever happened, Hillary? Have you ever run out of money and had no working cash at all and have you Sir? missed out on marvelous treasure troves of Cyclings heritage because there was just too damned much stuff there in front of you and not enough money or time or trucks to haul it away?

And have you had people , (because they are crazy) send it all to landfil or skip while you stand there, because they want to be (expletives) and just not sell it to anybody?

I did Michigan, and six surrounding states and Canada up to Toronto where I bit them in their butt, in person. I phoned all over the world, cooresponded with collectors and only got so far. But to Have England and France, itself as your playground? Oh Hillary! Heres to you!


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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SA B hub spoke lengths posted by: woody on 2/13/2011 at 4:39:59 AM
hell gentlepeople,
ihave a sturmey archer AB 3speed brake hub and i want to lace it into a 26x 1 3/8 westwood rim. i have a chart (aparently from Sturmey Archer) that says that i need 11" 1/16 spokes both side, which doesnt make much sense, as the flanges are different sizes.
online spoke length calculators put the sprocket side as being 280.9mm (11" 1/16) but the brake drum sid at 276mm.
two questions: has anyone encountered this problem and can inform me, or has the same creature and can measure?
secondly, where can i find these sizes? all the spokes on the net seem to be for modern bikes.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SA B hub spoke lengths posted by Keith Body on 2/13/2011 at 7:33:26 AM
Woody, assuming 40 hole, the chart says brake side 11 1/16,
gear side 11 3/16, crossed 4, westwood rim, sounds about right. The Raleigh westrick rims are a bit deeper, so a bit shorter. It should be OK to trim off up to 1/8 inch of extra length, after building.
Spokes are rolled thread, and it is possible to roll a bit more thread.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SA B hub spoke lengths posted by woody on 2/13/2011 at 3:50:13 PM
thanks keith,
how does one roll more thread? im assuming it is beyond backyard engineering?
this still doesnt fit the online calculators which say 280.9 (11.06") for the gear side and 276 for the brake(10.866").
i agree this is a pretty annoying question but i want to get it right before i order....

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   SA B hub spoke lengths posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/14/2011 at 3:49:43 AM
Hmmmm.... dunno 'bout "rolling thread" pursuant to backyard or basement engineering.... but I think if you were to get the appropriate sized die, you may be able to "chase" another thread or threee or four on there sans too much difficulty.... though S.S. spokes would pose more of a challenge.

Best of luck!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - A thread on threads... I like it.


           how to enter???? posted by Michael the Collector on 2/19/2011 at 8:03:28 AM
How do I get to put my question and pictures on your discussion board? Everything that I see is based on previous discussions.

           RE:how to enter???? posted by jj on 2/20/2011 at 5:08:40 AM
>> How do I get to put my question and pictures on your discussion board?

Look for the button that says "New Message"

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Anyone looking for a DL-1? posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/10/2011 at 7:59:46 PM
4 days left and $88 bid thus far... this might prove a good deal for someone.

Not my auction.... etc. et.al.



Larry "Boneman" Bone - GO for it!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Anyone looking for a DL-1? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/14/2011 at 10:00:11 PM
So it went for $225. + 100 for shipping... not too bad actually... though I do think the shipping's a bit high.

Anyone here get it?


Larry "Boneman" Bone - DL-1's are awesome!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Anyone looking for a DL-1? posted by Rob on 2/15/2011 at 11:11:46 AM
I spotted a women's 3 speed Columbia bike at Whitman College yesterday here in Walla Walla WA. I had never seen this brand before. Is it a Raleigh or a "dutch bike" It has the lovely DL 1 style womens frame but I think it has 26 inch wheels. Not for sale but I will keep my eye on it and try and contact the owner! Thanks for any info . I am riding a 73 Raleigh Sports mens frame project bike at the moment. Rob

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Anyone looking for a DL-1? posted by Charles on 2/15/2011 at 5:24:52 PM
I just picked up a Raleigh DL-1, Loop Frame Roadster, unknown vintage from a guy up in Toronto. I'm having it shipped to Seattle. The shipping costs UPS are $120 Canadian. I'll be posting to my blog soon. I have a gents DL-1 already and this will be the matching ladies version. It's a serious project bike though. Check it out at veloscene.net.

The bike is missing the back wheel and hub. If anyone has a spare 28" rear wheel they are willing to part with, please let me know.

Charles (cwestergard--at--gmail--dot--com)

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Anyone looking for a DL-1? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/15/2011 at 8:16:44 PM
@Rob: Columbia is about as American as they come. 2nd in line to Schwinn and they do have many a fan... I personally owned a Columbia "Playbike" muscle bike in the 1960's.

Wish I still had it!!!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - It was gold.... 3-speed... chrome fenders... :-S

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MISC:   rear versus front dynohub balance? posted by: mark on 2/10/2011 at 4:59:56 PM
For a sports model bike: any thoughts on "bike weight and balance" in terms of using a rear 3 sp AG dyno versus
using an old alloy 3sp Aw in the back and a front GH6 dynohub?
...if so what, about throwing 590 cr18s into the equation versus keeping 590 endrick or westrick?

           RE:MISC:   rear versus front dynohub balance? posted by David on 2/11/2011 at 10:59:47 AM
I don't think you'll notice anything, regardless of which wheel has the generator. Because the mass is in the center of the wheel, it won't affect acceleration much and it won't add a damping effect to the steering, either. It will only add a couple of pounds to the overall weight of machine and rider. One of these days I'll get around to building wheels with my Sun aluminum rims. That should make for both better acceleration and better braking.

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MISC:   phillips seat post size? posted by: mark on 2/10/2011 at 4:22:46 PM
anyone know the metric size of the pre-Raleigh Phillips? I know Raleigh is 25.4, 27.0 seems a touch large. thanx

           RE:MISC:   phillips seat post size? posted by Keith Body on 2/11/2011 at 4:00:49 PM
Mark, Only a guess, but I would expect it to be the same as the Raleigh, 27mm would be the size for a 21 / 22 G 531 seat tube, the butted tubes at 23G take 27.2.
The Phillips is probably made from the same sort of cold rolled and electric seam welded tubing as the Raleigh.
Although there is inferior tubing, some lightweight cycle people erroneously refer to it as "gas pipe".
I think you may be better on a genuine individually hand built lightweight bike. You can fix your feet to the pedals, to get about another 25% power, and feel the bike really fly along. The Phillips/Raleigh type bikes were mostly either for local commuting or teenagers not old enough to drive.

           RE:MISC:   phillips seat post size? posted by mark on 2/11/2011 at 4:35:09 PM
Hello Keith, thanks for the response. the bike is actually a Phillips sports [B'ham] model--one of those manhattans. Anyhow, I really like and am keeping the bike, i was just looking for taller seatpost options for this 21"--and a 27.0 alloy post i have doesn't seem to fit nor does the Raleigh sports 25.4 size. however i will go double check the 27.0 size
thanks mark

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AGE / VALUE:   sturmey archer hubs. posted by: woody on 2/9/2011 at 10:04:39 PM
i have recently acquired an AB 3 speed hub brake and also have a front gh6 dynohub, and was considering fitting the brake arrangement into the gh6 front hub, and the dynohub into the rear (this obviously requires drilling the four holes for the dynohub to fit into the AB shell.). the shell is virtually the same, both 90mm.
has anyone here considered or tryed this before?
or is it just a pipe dream?....

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   sturmey archer hubs. posted by David on 2/10/2011 at 9:21:36 AM
I'm sure the shell is the same. Be sure you don't separate the ring magnet from the armature if you remove the generator from the hub. You may have axle problems however. Have you checked exploded diagrams of AB and AG to see if the same axle is used? You might just want to sell the Dyno and buy SunRace/SA's combo drum brake and Dyno front hub. Then you'd have weatherproof brakes at both ends. Good luck.

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AGE / VALUE:   film posted by: sam on 2/9/2011 at 11:32:18 AM


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AGE / VALUE:   Need help with this project for this site posted by: Chris on 2/8/2011 at 7:19:40 PM
I would like to see a page here a permanent article with photographs and notes on how to do this.

I am asking for everybody's input and assistance in pulling this off.

Take a picture of a basic Raleigh tourist D.L.1. rod brake bike with the 28 inch wheels I dunno, lets say a 1972 Raleigh tourist .

Now pull off the cranks, pull out the bottom bracket spindle ( 08 GCC) pull out the adjustible cup and the locking ring

now measure the bottom bracket shell.

measure the spindle compare it with cotterless spindles from other bicycles of other manufacturers

no matter what the maker is, of the modern, alloy, cotterless, cranksets as long a the crankset will not run on that raised, circular part with the threaded hole for the enclosed chainguard that is on the frame.
Every Raleigh tourist has this place where the owner is able to later add on an enclosed chaincase

even bikes with hockey stick chainguards has this spot on their bike in case the factory wanted to use an enclosed chaincase on the bikes all the frames had this feature.

I mention this because we have to take care to find a long enough cotterless spindle that will just clear it.

This can rub just a bit and we don't want it to.

Anyways, I would like to see a article a permanent one telling the readers here HOW TO HOP UP YOUR RALEIGH TOURIST D.L.1. ROD BRAKE BIKE


This has been done before in times past but never by the maker, Raleigh of Nottingham, England.

I referr to the T.A. SPECIALITIES company that is still in business even now ( look them up on the web!) and they made a coterless spindle and even a chain ring set that will fit our Raleigh 's like a hand in a glove.

But, becauxse this bottom bracket shell is so standard and so similar to other bicycles out there today we can rob parts and swap them into our Raleigh's giving everybody a much , much better gear range and set up. You can put deraileur cogs on the rear sturmey archer hub and run 3/32 chain on the bike.

I look at bikes in the junk yards and thrift stores and know that a lot of this stuff would fit but nobody here has done this and I sam asking for some of the readers here to take over and do this and I ask Vin to devote a page here in the "resources section"

I have seen Raleigh tourist D.L.1. bikes pop up on e- bay with these T.A.Specialities front chainring/ cotterless cranks but they are rarely seen.

Of course the next project should be,

"Hopping up Your Raleigh Sports and Raleigh Superbes"

by converting the cottered cranks to cotterless/ alloy multispeed cranks.

So a three speed hub with a two in front is a six, with a three in front is a 9 speed with a cyclo cog and a deraileur is 18 and so forth.

Multi - speed/ hybrid gears on these bikes is awesome and it is strange we have never put it on record here and devoted a project page to doing this it is past time we did it.

So take your extra, non museaum piece Raleigh Tourist d.l.1. with those rod brakes and 28 inch wheels and go hybrid!

One note please save your original Raleigh heron steel crankset, those steel crank arms and save those MAGICAL RED RALEIGH "R" cotter pin nuts for when you wish to sell the bike and preserve it for originality as well. Those red R nuts bring CRAZY prices on e- bay as we all know.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need help with this project for this site posted by mark on 2/9/2011 at 2:31:04 PM
Hi Chris--I have several sports but not yet any DL-1's--so you are the expert not me. But i wonder, given that the DL1 is a larger, heavier bike how much hopping up might be advantageous and isn't the heron chain ring one of the key pieces one wants on the bike? Maybe another hopping option is a modern sturmey 5 spd [with non-gripshift] plus a large rear cog? then you would still have the heron...just a thought....Have you or anyone-just for fun- tried doing a faux-clubman with a 70s roadbike Raleigh? if so, did you use 27"/700c rims or 590 Ea3? ...and/or i hear the original dunlop 597s steel lightweights are rare/special so could schwinnn 597 be used? what handlebars/stem would you use on a faux clubman? And thanks Chris for all the great English bike details i have learned from your posts

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need help with this project for this site posted by Chris on 2/9/2011 at 5:22:23 PM
Yes, the steel Raleigh Heron crankset is a desirable, hallmark of the brand, feature of the bike. We want to remember that the whole bike is best kept together both for re- sale purposes and to preserve the value of the bike not to break the continunity of the bike.

So, put these parts aside and save them......... because for practically, and lets make it better and more useful part of it, to make the bike more usefull and enjoyable and so you can really go and haul butt on the thing so you can go across country or really just take the magic of this bike to the max.

The steel crankset has to go. the cottered spindle has to go. it's heavy, it's a pain to service the bottom bracket, replacement pins are a hassle.

I just want a more wide range of gearing and I am willing to break all the so called rules lets get "out of the box" "think outside the bun" and build a super bike with this frame and fork and gearing.

I want to see a picture, blow by blow of converting a ridable Raleigh tourist D.L.1. to a super bike.

So break the rules, think ahead, be radical and innovative and lets put on a section that shows how to really do gearing.

The 5 speed hub is expensive is too already done, been there done that. The new hubs are fine but I did the 5 star hubs and they were horrible. No I want to see non english cranksets in this bike I want 3 front chainrings in alloy a rear derailer, with derailer cogs fixed onto your 3 speed sturmey hub or better still rare, mysterious hubs of the past like the old b.s.a. hubs.
I want to hear you saying:
"Where in the He** did you get those parts?
"let me see that no dude!! let me ride it and as you ride it you are cheering this is some righteous shi# you did to this bike!!"

Lets take that flying leap off of Mount Tam before we lose the company (Schwinn) type of thinking.

So, lets change the crankset, change the transmission

loose those westwood rims and find alloy rims in 28 x 1 1/2

Make a custom enclosed chaincase to cover all the heritical, insanely thought up, mischif you have in your back wheel and how it's all shifted.

I want to be able to ride all day cover 150 miles on the bike go at insane speeds where people pull out their camera phones and take my picture as I FLY on this old steel Black Mamba Raleigh!!

I write this post because I don't understand why this has not been done here already and documented. I pushed and nibbled and bit him occaisionally (the late Sheldon Brown) and he did his "Raleigh interchangability" piece on sheldonbrown.com and he mentions that some cotterless spindles do work in the Raleigh cups.

I had bastard parts in the bottom bracket of my 48 R.R.A. and forgot to document what was in it and now it's gone but that bike FLEW! I caught heck for not being original but it was the bike I wanted to take to the metro park and haul on.

I have to go for now, I will continue this thread tomorrow. I will answer your questions best I can.

Keith Body, can you join me in teaching vintage bicycle heritic-al thoughts into this group here you have seen and ridden engineered the off the wall gearing and enjoyed it all. I know. please chime in

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need help with this project for this site posted by chris on 2/9/2011 at 6:26:16 PM
ok, have more time. This is not new what I am saying. it's been done already. Our Sam, did a :Bently Ghost restoration and it should still be in the "Bike rod n kustom" ( on the web) archive. He did derailer gears a 5 speed (if I remeber right) had alloy rims in 700 x 38c same as the 28 x 1/1/2 wheels only in alloy on a 24 inch frame, 28, inch wheel Raleigh Tourist bike and his had the added kiss of the locking fork too!

Go to bike rod n kustom and look it up. Bently Ghost restoration it's called. ok, I mentioned that so there is credit given but besides that, what has been done and shown on the web? not much, we see the occaisional d.l.1. on e- bay with that T.A. Specialities conversion to cotterless spindles but a thumb shift, derailer gear set up with cotterless, alloy cranks that are multi speed up front who has done it and shown it.

You see, I have seen that the best . wildest stuff is usually quietly done by the home cycle mechanic and they just grin ear to ear and go enjoy the thing and, well you have to look at every customers bicycle that comes in the shop and you'll see interesting off the wall stuff.

I know that the steel, crankset is heavy, it's limited. That the Sturmey- Archer hubs have their limits and drawbacks and what offers more speeds are derailers and the 3 speed hub together it's called hybrid gearing study the old Cyclo material the British and French Cyclo all those cogs and adaptor kits. study the secrets of running 1/8 th basic 3 speed ( now they call it single speed chain) but it's really 3 speed chain find the narrow brands and run it through Huret and old cyclo derailers. or use modern 3 /32 chain and a Sakai or some Japanese or French crank parts. Tinker and experiment and you'll find that gee, it so happens to fit and work in the Raleigh bottom bracket cups!

Go further, and share it with the group here. Try every cotterless spindle in the every drawer in every bike shop until you find a spindle that will work in that original raleigh 26 t.p.i. cups and then hook that spindle to a modern, alloy front chainring set. Then, do the rear wheel and either go hybrid and use the 3 speed hub or go derailer only. I had a terrible time getting spokes right to use a derailer hub in my steel 28 x 1 1/2 westwood rim!! I saw alloy rims, never owned them. Sam has a set in his bike, but the rims are impossible to source is that it? I saw magical stuff at the swap meets saw stuff I never knew was ever produced! People "hopped up their Raleigh Twenty bicycle" I referr to the Sheldon Brown article where he encouraged people to buy an old Raleigh twenty folding bicycle and change everything even the forks in the thing to make a folding Raleigh twenty super bike with modern and improved parts. Had Sheldon lived longer, he likely would have further honoured my request and we would have already, a page on his site showing the hopped up futureistic Raleigh tourists D.L.'S and Sports and Supurbes. Sheldon wanted a commuting bike that folded and had small wheels so he could take his Raleigh twenty on the train and bus and that kicked off the "Re-born Raleigh Twenty movement" as I call it especially when he wrote about it and shared pictures on the web. Sheldon was ahead of his time as well and being helpful, wonderful, patient teacher to all who asked!
I saw a picture here awhile back and can't find it now of a Raleigh tourist mountain bike!
The best and most magical stuff pops up and vanished before you can get your butterfly net out and capture the dang fairy! I am serious.

I remeber reading in Cycling about a fellow who had his bike stolen and what was special was that he missed the bike so much and why because he had an ANOTHER 3 speed hub mounted behind the seat post so one long chain ran from the chainwheel crank where the pedals are up to this 3 speed hub that was attached with a clamp around the hub shell and then the chain went back down to the rear wheel and the chain went around the sprocket and back to the front chainring. It did or did not have a cyclo 3 speed conversion cog on one hub or not I don't remember I am quoting from an obscure article in a past issue of cycling and it was not illustrated so I am drawing a visual illustration for you all by memory from an old article. But it gave more speeds, more easier to pedal and sustainably pedal and he went all over, cover greater distances and it was unique and different and way better. How many speeds? it was more than nine, it sounded. He had the bike with it on it stolen and he wanted it back very badly. It was unique. He was ahead of his time, a rare flittering fairy that you want to capture and hold onto it while it cusses you out so you can copy it yourself.

These bikes are traditional, genteel, polite and wonderful. It's why we love them. So keep that. keep fenders ( mudguards and even the enclosed chaincase on the bike but modify it so you can do gearing. But traditional, polite, and genteel also worked against Raleigh in the more recent modern times.

Schwinn was scared of lawsuits and riding down mt. Tam was an event missed by the engineers and designers at Schwinn and here, the early Gary Fisher, Kelly, e.t.c. mountain bikes were the old Steel Schwinn Excelsior's!! Talk about missing the boat!! Think out side the box. leave your bike with the most demented machinist who breaks all the rules and see what he brings you in 8 months later.

When somebody stops you and wants to study the bike you ride away and decline to let them study your bike this is what these bike-ie's do!! or else they are going so fast you can't stop them to study the bike. People are strange the coolest bike stuff is hidden, discreet, never shown this is the reason I don't see the stuff I mention shown here. Well, everybody is busy,and I love to go off on wild tangents but I see I am just following a lesser traveled road the trail is already there just not often used but it has been and by sharper people that rode before me and most of them long, long ago. The good stuff is underneath the bar you have to know it and ask for it and they quietly pour you a drink if they know you. Strangers don't get in and if they do, what is offered to them is basic, is limited but if you are an old timer, if you've seen stuff, read hard to find out of print, collectable literature you just about have to kill to get your hands on you'll see here and there where the magical and awesome and really neat stuff peeks through the blinds at you when it appears and shure looks like, that nobody is home.

I've been through basic, done it. Now I want ultra advanced/ slightly forbidden cycling when I say forbidden I mean something on the bike that you never see and when you leave it it the bike shop the old fellow calls over his trusted old friend and say's I want you to see the stuff this customer has on his bike take a good look at it? ever see anything like this and when the old guys say either Yes, but not in a long time" You know you have it right on the money to be able to have them saying they "have never seen anything like that" is a mightly difficult trick to pull off indeed.

every back issue of popular mechanics and look over all the paper stuff the collectors don't want to let you see let alone buy and add to, modify and alter it. look them over, study, and remember to think outside the box, get crazy and inventive.
call this:
How to make your Raleigh Tourist, Sports, Superbes into a multi- speed alloy cotterless super bike.

You know the later Raleigh Super Tourer bike was not improved until it was made my Maeda Industries in Japan and then it was more Super than before.

But the best magic is the old, forgotten, British magic those gears and hubs and lightweight frames. Keith is correct the 1950's Raleigh record Ace bikes were already obsolete as new because the real riders had already abandoned the hub gear camp but still the bike hold it's own today. done for today-chris

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need help with this project for this site posted by David on 2/10/2011 at 9:16:33 AM
While "hopping up" a roadster can be done, it seems pointless. The bike will remain quite heavy even if you manage to find alloy 28" rims and replace the crank with alloy. Also, good condition cotterless spindles are increasingly hard to find. Unless a Phil Wood or a YST or Mavic threadless bottom bracket is used, you're still stuck with the 26tpi Raleigh cups. The thing I love about the DL1 roadster is the ride; like a Cadillac or a cabin cruiser! If you want a sportier ride, why not ride a sportier bike?

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Need help with this project for this site posted by Al on 2/10/2011 at 12:03:04 PM

This is a great thread. I've got a DL1 I've been modernizing, too. What sparked my interest: I rode a DL1 that had alloy Weinmann Westrick rims in 28 x 1 1/2. The bike rode smooth as silk. Still slow to turn with that relaxed frame design and huge fork offset, but that's what I enjoy about these frames.

A DL1 roadster with alloy drive train means I can have my cake and eat it too - a classic imperial bike frame design, but with less rolling inertia. Weight of the bike frame and all its luxurious fitments doesn't matter as much as rotating wheel mass. Sportier? No. But I felt like I could ride that bike all day.

Alas, the only rod-brake alloy rims in 635 rim size I can find are made by Rigida. The shipping cost from the UK and the rest of Europe is a bear.

So, I'm still thinking what to do: perhaps 630 or 622 alloy rims with drum brake hubs. And then figure out the rod linkages.

As for the bottom bracket, I'm using Phil Wood Raleigh 26 tpi cups with an NOS Shimano UN-71 bottom bracket bolted to a Sugino Super Maxy crankset.

Velo Orange sells an internally expanding threadless bottom bracket that works on Raleigh frames, too.

As for using a rear deraileur, I decided no for a few reasons. First, a deraileur spoils the look for me. And if I install an enclosed chainguard, no go.

So where does that leave me? I'm thinking of using a 1960s S/A S5 hub. Or even an old Sachs S7. But the newer internal hubs would mean spreading the frame to accommodate a 120-132 OLD hub. Not a big issue if you also align the droputs. But I wonder about the added stress at the brake bridge if I really load up this bike. And lastly, I'd have to figure out correct chainline between the rear hub and the front chainring. Trial and error would get it. But I don't have a stash of bottom brackets around to do that.

Anyway, if you've read this far, I hope you enjoy modernizing as much as I do. It's a cool idea, Chris. There are so many permutations of a modern DL1. I wish I had more time to figure mine out!


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Need help with this project for this site posted by sam on 2/10/2011 at 6:37:59 PM
Getting the DL-1 to go faster is a great idea till you try to stop
Better to start working on the brakes first
Mine has "V" brakes

           RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Need help with this project for this site posted by Roger Blake on 2/10/2011 at 6:40:36 PM
There used to be commercially made rear dual sprockets that fit on the 4-speed SA, so I imagine they would work as well for 3-speed SA's. I believe they came complete with the shifting hardware. I have seen them on Moultons. A few weeks ago there was a thread about them on the Moulton discussion group hosted on Yahoo.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Need help with this project for this site posted by Chris on 2/16/2011 at 10:25:04 AM
Sam did an expert job in fitting the v- brakes to the Raleigh's frame and fork and the bike stops on a dime!

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AGE / VALUE:   Dutch Raleigh posted by: Zach Mathews on 2/3/2011 at 9:31:58 AM
I have just purchased an old black Raleigh Sports. When a Raleigh looks this Dutch, where was it built? It has a coat guard, internal wiring to a bottle dynamo, and rod-to-drum brakes. It has 50's decals but the hubs are matching '69s. I am not yet in possession of the bike, having purchased it sight unseen for a reasonable price from someone I believe to be reliable. What do you good people know about Dutch Raleighs? I believe they are still manufacturing roadsters there under the Raleigh name, no?


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dutch Raleigh posted by Matthew on 2/4/2011 at 11:28:19 AM
Hi Zach,

I'd go with 1969 because this model was made in various versions into the 1980s. The coat (skirt?) guard is possibly later so don't be confused by that. The rod drums are interesting and would be the cause of needing a bottle dynamo.

WE have a very similar cycle sitting in a garage in Essex, I think it is a 1951.

Matthew - details are all we need.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dutch Raleigh posted by Chris on 2/7/2011 at 7:14:17 PM
What does the headbadge say on it?


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dutch Raleigh posted by Zach on 2/8/2011 at 10:12:34 AM
I guess I have trouble calling it a skirt guard if it's on a gents' frame. Let's call it a kilt guard? There is a thread from a month ago on bikeforums about the bike. I put up the two closer shots available from that discussion on my site, above. The link to the bikeforums thread is below. I'll take pics of my own and post them once I have possession of the machine.


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dutch Raleigh posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/9/2011 at 4:25:19 AM
Thumbs up on the "Kilt Guard"! Now I want one.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - would one really ride with a kilt, I wonder?

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MISC:   HEY CHRIS: German Bikes posted by: JS on 2/2/2011 at 8:54:43 AM

I remember a while back you wanted some more info on German Roadsters.

I just published a post on a bike that would interest you. German...no. Austrian...yes.

You can check it out on my blog.




           RE:MISC:   HEY CHRIS: German Bikes posted by chris on 2/5/2011 at 10:49:39 AM
thanks, I will take a look at it

           RE:MISC:   HEY CHRIS: German Bikes posted by Chris on 2/7/2011 at 7:12:26 PM
I enjoyed the article very much, THANKS! well written and I like the layout of the site too. BRAVO and WELL DONE! Keep up the excellent work.

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MISC:   Humber head badge posted by: mark on 1/28/2011 at 4:33:56 PM
Sirs: So in the archives i have seen a bit of mention of non-dual forked Humbers--an old Sheldon post "Humber sports model" for ex.--and also head badges a little mention....but was wondering if anyone knows when or for how long Humbers had head decals versus metal head badges--did the George V metal head badge appear pre-WW2 and then surface again in the latter 40s/early 50s and maybe then the design changed after Queen Elizabeth's coronation? Is "Sports model" but little else for decals on the seat tube indicative of war-era bikes...i have seen similar on a 48 herc....?

           RE:MISC:   Humber head badge posted by chris on 1/29/2011 at 11:19:43 AM
they did decals for a long time i think when raleigh got hold of humber they went to badges there were a dizzying arry of various decal transfers for each manufactuerer

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AGE / VALUE:   I would if I could posted by: Chris on 1/27/2011 at 10:43:54 AM
The trailer was being pulled by a moving truck and it had two bikes and some items clearly being taken to the dump. if I could have run and jumped into the moving trailer I would have just to see what they had bikewise. they were going too fast. I stood there and got agitated at missing it.
now, if I were a policeman I could pull the people over and make up an excuse for pulling them over give me the bike and I would tear up your ticket!!

where exactly the dump they were heading to was, I don't know.

I do run after people or up to people if they have stuff stashed into the trailer and the say they don't have time to go thru it and I cry! and sometimes they won't take me along.

One day you'll see somebody going down the road, hauling me off to the dump and you ask hey, "isn't that Chris?" it's ok, I'm going to a place where I'll be happy!! They can throw me up on top and tie me down with the bungee cord! I'll go anyplace as long as they have bikes.

I see these old bikes in England I it sickens me to think of the bikes that are not being offered for sale but rather thrown out or have been thrown out all the treasures and this mead is so historic and those forks it belongs in a museaum it is so cool!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   I would if I could posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 1/29/2011 at 9:30:01 AM
You're killing me Chris.... I got this graphic of you jumping onto a moving trailer Indiana Jones style.... to save the bicycles..... LOL....

And I suppose what makes me laugh is that I'd be right along with you!

As to being the... "Bicycle Police"... well, I certainly can relate but you're scaring me a little there ;-)

There are certain things that I need be mindful of pursuant to my personatlity.... I simply cannot peruse websites or newspaper sections for Humane Societies or animal shelters... As you are with the bicycles (me too actually), I want to SAVE THEM ALL.

Very simply... and very sadly the reason for the castoffs is lack of demand and lack of education. Folks just don't know how awesome olde British Roadsters... and many other classic machines are.

Everything these days.... even the cheap krappe at Wal*Mart.... has to be TECHNICAL.

But hey, when you look at a society that spends 8 hours a day staring into a computer monitor... then only to run out and buy a Kindle or some such thing... to stare into that...

I'll take the classic... anachronistic(?) BOOK every single time. Turn REAL PAGES. Dogear 'em if you have to.

And Chris... if you're gonna trailer hop, please ensure you're wearing the appropriate gear to ensure your safety. Helmet... body armor... etc. (It was all a part of my "vision").


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Jump on it!!!!!


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FOR SALE:   Bike Airplane - $4.95 posted by: jj on 1/27/2011 at 5:43:35 AM

Bike Airplane, goes on any handlebars. Prop spins while you ride.



           RE:FOR SALE:   Bike Airplane - $4.95 posted by JDuck on 1/27/2011 at 8:00:31 AM
I have one!

           RE:FOR SALE:   Bike Airplane - $4.95 posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 1/29/2011 at 9:31:37 AM
Hmmm.... looks like a Corsair. Howzabout a Supermarine Spitfire for us English Roadster riders????



Larry "Boneman" Bone - CONTACT!

           RE:FOR SALE:   Bike Airplane - $4.95 posted by JDuck on 1/30/2011 at 3:00:08 PM
Not a corsair. What it looks like up close is a Hughes H-1 with decals!

           RE:RE:FOR SALE:   Bike Airplane - $4.95 posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/1/2011 at 5:18:57 AM
Hmmmm... methink's you're correct. I like that the prop diameter matches the wingspan too. :-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone - yeah, I might just get one.... for the Rat Fink

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