OldRoads.com > Discuss: English 3-speeds
Discuss: English Roadsters Scroll Down For Messages


I'm selling the OldRoads.com website.

I started the site in 1995 and sold my retail shop in April of this year.

I'm retiring from the bike business.

Here's a link to the eBay auction:



All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Search 18 years of ARCHIVES:  

Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc. has set up this discussion area for the sharing of vintage and custom bicycle information. Anyone may add their opinions to this forum, as long as they follow the rules outlined below. We are not responsible for incorrect or misleading advise which may appear here.


All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Vintage Bicycle Discussion Area

English Roadsters

Post a new topic, or click an existing topic below:

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   Blatant self promotion posted by: Matthew on 1/5/2008 at 4:16:25 AM
Hi Folks,

Shameless as it is I am going for some self advertising with apologies to all (Sorry Vin).

I am off on another epic ride upon my 1930s delivery bike (cycletruck). This time about 250 miles in SEPTEMBER 08 from Hunstanton Norfolk, England to Tower Bridge, London, England. To raise funds for the Royal National Lifeboat Institution. http://www.rnli.org.uk/

You can donate via http://www.justgiving.com

September is not a bad time to ride as children are at school and weather not too bad.

Matthew - little legs a blur.

           RE:MISC: Blatant self promotion posted by Matthew on 1/5/2008 at 4:25:29 AM
I forgot you'll need my full name to find me on justgiving.

Matthew Hodder

That's me!

           RE:MISC: Blatant self promotion posted by Matthew on 1/7/2008 at 2:38:49 PM
Hi folks,

I just updated my 'readers rides' page. Photos of the bike and me. You can scare your children with the photos!

Matthew - photo gnomic.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1974 Condor ( London) posted by: tamara on 1/4/2008 at 7:56:48 PM
I have this Condor that I bought in London in 1974. It's a road bike/touring as it has eyes for racks and fenders. It's always been indoors. wondering where I can find info. on it's value. thanks. Reynolds aluminium frame.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 1974 Condor ( London) posted by Warren on 1/4/2008 at 8:51:58 PM
I think you'll find it's a Reynolds butted steel frame...the other Reynolds makes aluminum foil. Steel is what you want. Value depends on size, condition, components and mojo. As well as where you are selling it...London, USA, Ebay? There's no Kelleys or Blue Book on bikes...take detailed pics.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 1974 Condor ( London) posted by sciencemonster on 1/4/2008 at 10:28:51 PM
Try here:


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 1974 Condor ( London) posted by Matthew on 1/5/2008 at 4:13:04 AM
Hi Tamara,

Condor Cycles of Grays Inn Road, London are still in business and are a Pashley / Moulton dealer. Look them up.

Matthew - where do I learn this stuff from?

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 1974 Condor ( London) posted by sam on 1/5/2008 at 11:10:41 AM
Reynolds(English) did sell Alum---handel bars and seat post.Don't know if they supplied Alum bike tubing.Maybe someone can give us more info?I agree with Warren on it most likely being a steel frame.

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 1974 Condor ( London) posted by Warren on 1/5/2008 at 5:40:20 PM
Agreed Sam. I've also got alloy Reynolds bars and seatpins from the 50's but I'm "almost" dead certain they never built an aluminum alloy frame. Steel alloy, yes.

And just to really cover it, we should mention the Renolds chain manufacturer...makers of the ubiquitous Coventry and Elite chains used on so many English roadsters and club bikes. Different company again.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: 1974 Condor ( London) posted by Matthew on 1/6/2008 at 9:53:16 AM
Hi Folks,

More research. http://www.reynoldsusa.com/english.html

Reynolds, of course never built frames at all, they are tubing manufacturers, steel for many years and then the 7005 aluminium (aluminum).

From the date of your bicycle Tamara I very much doubt it is aluminium. It is certainly Alloy steel because Reynolds 531 and 753 tubing is made from carbon mangenese alloy steel. By the way 531 dates from as far back as 1935 and is only available to special order nowadays.

Matthew - testing my mettle.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Ebay DL1 in Orlando posted by: David on 1/3/2008 at 6:37:14 AM
Not my auction. Item 220186418794 for pickup only in Orlando. Looks like the taller frame (?), complete exc saddle, decent condition. Probably will sell to "best offer."


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Ulster Sports posted by: Tom on 1/2/2008 at 10:14:24 PM
I have a 1952 Rudge Ulster Sports that needs a restoration. It has been painted a different red from original but the fork shows the original paint and also under the headbadge is the same red. I am looking for any pictures of one that has not been painted. I need the pics for the proper location for transfers. I can go by my 1952 catalogue but it is a little hard to see the exact locations.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Ulster Sports posted by Peter on 1/8/2008 at 6:28:01 AM
Tom -
I've got some pictures of a Rudge Ulster Sports - email me?

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Harry Quinn road bike posted by: Carl on 1/1/2008 at 8:11:10 AM
I have acquired a Harry Quinn road bike and I am wondering how rare the bike is and how old it may be. I am under the understanding that it was a custom built frame, built when Harry Quinn was living in Tenby, Wales. (I am from Wales, UK).
I am however uncertain of the age of it because the components on the bike seem to date to the late 80s and I have been unable to find information about Harry Quinn frames this late. The frame has a sticker stating that the tubing is Reynolds 653 and the frame number, on the bottom of the bottom bracket housing is Q136. The frame is painted flamboyant pink and white and had chromed forks and rear triangle.
The bike has the following components:
Shimano Dura-Ace, 7400 front derailleur, 7401 rear derailleur and downtube shifters. It also has Shimano 600, 6400 crankset and 6401 brake leavers and brakes, which all seem to date around 1987 - 88. I understand that the frame was purchased and fitted with these parts when new. The headset is a Stronglight Spidel and the bars and stem are Cinelli 63 – 40. The bike came with 3 sets of wheels, 2 sets with Mavic GP4 tubular rims, one set on Mitch hubs and the other set on Mavic hubs, both have screw on freewheel hubs. The other set is a set of Mavic MA40 rims on 7400 Dura-Ace hubs, which I cant use because I have not got a cassette and the hub has a freehub body incorporating its own coarse thread, so I cannot convert it to a HG freehub body.
I would much appreciate any information regarding the age and rarity of this bike.


           RE:AGE / VALUE: Harry Quinn road bike posted by Matthew on 1/2/2008 at 3:35:50 PM
Hi carl,

try the vintage lightweight discussion board, there's a link above on the menu. This is more the sort of machine for that DB.

Matthew - lighter than you think.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Can't wait! posted by: Chris on 1/2/2008 at 8:55:24 AM
A fellow has 3 balloon tire bikes he's going to give me but, I have to wait until Saturday when we go to collect them. The waiting is difficult. These are stored with somebody who is away and he won't go there when nobody is home. I have been helping him out, working with him.
They sound nice and I'm excited and can't wait. I'm getting these for free and want to give them to a pal who has helped me out. Maybe he'll forgive my working his territory.....
I'm impatient! What day is today? Wednesday! Arrggghh!
Will let you know what they are and if I get to lay my little paws on them!
Indoor kept, old, I'm drooling at the thought!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gotta wait longer! posted by Chris on 1/7/2008 at 2:34:48 PM
Waiting another week! They tease me telling me about whitewall balloon tires on the Schwinn too. Will write the update.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gotta wait longer! posted by Chris on 1/17/2008 at 10:55:17 AM
Turns out he failed to follow thru on his word. Every so often, you can get screwed. Oh well, Next!

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Perry rear hub brake posted by: Mal Tyson on 1/1/2008 at 11:56:47 PM
Hi....have a Perry 40 hole Rear hub brake which seems to be in very good condition. Can anyone advise if the older Perry units are worth spoking.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

WANTED:   Drooling towels ready? posted by: Matthew on 1/1/2008 at 3:51:47 AM
Oh dear!

It is never wise to look at cycle websites especially the Pashley website.

Look at this! http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/guvnor.html

I have a bad attack of the wants. No chance of affording one but, wow!

Matthew - must not covet.

           RE:WANTED:   Drooling towels ready? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 1/1/2008 at 6:19:34 AM
That IS most interesting. L795? Dunno how many US greenbacks that is... but it sound like it should be a lot!

At first glance as the images were loading, I thought what I was seeing were celluloid mudguards.... those tyres are something!

Oh... and in the realm of the "Guitar Enthusiast" we have a "disease" for the "wants"... it's called GAS... or... Guitar Acquisition Syndrome.....

I wonder what we could call it when it applies to velocipedes..?


Happy New Year!

Larry "Boneman" Bone

           RE:WANTED: Drooling towels ready? posted by Matthew on 1/1/2008 at 8:11:32 AM
Hi Larry,

GAS would be the same as PAS - percussion acquisition syndrome suffered by drummers, which is similar to WAB (What!! Another bike!) as spoken by long suffering spouse / partner / family.

£795 has got to be the best part of $1500 before shipping.

Matthew - where is my piggy bank?

           RE:WANTED:   Drooling towels ready? posted by Steve on 1/1/2008 at 11:23:07 AM
Just got in from the New Years Day family bike ride of something like ten or twelve miles, bikes all cleaned and put away.
Lets have a cup of tea, relax and see if anything doing on the website.

Well, you are never going to believe this but I actually stopped an elderly gentlemen at a supermarket car park in Windsor, Berkshire yesterday to complement and enquire about his bike.
The rodded bike was green with nice big fully enclosed chain guard complete with plenty of minor scratches and dents but it looked good.
Anyhow, it turned out to be a Pashley..... so it's somewhat a coincidence that this name should appear today.

Well Matthew, I've looked at the Pashley site for the first time ever and can't help but be impressed by what's on the menu !

The "guvnor" is a wonderful looking bike but (and this once again shows where my lack of knowledge comes in) where do you ride it these days with it's single speed hub.
I had a similar machine many years ago with 500 horses and no brakes, but there were (and still are) places to ride these beasts. I can just picture the old "leg trailing" action on this particular bike. It's lovely.

Moving on to the "phantom".........it's a stunner !

But what happens to the eighty bikes produced ?

Are they put in display cabinets.
Are they purely investment pieces or are they actually used in anger (and if so by who)?
I really can't imagine one being tethered to a lampost in Central London !

Would be interested to hear comments on the above.

Steve who's left oily finger marks on the towels...not me!


           RE:WANTED:   Drooling towels ready? posted by Al Fickensher on 1/1/2008 at 11:33:01 AM
Can't comment on Pashley but I did just last week make two purchases from The Motherland and for each the exchange rate was right at $2 USD per GBP.

           RE:RE:WANTED: Drooling towels ready? posted by Joe on 1/1/2008 at 1:14:20 PM
The current exchange rate changes with the rise and fall of the dollar's value, the current exchange rate for 795 GBP is $1,579.15. Yahoo has an exchange rate calculator at:
Those bikes look great, but are way out of my price range. Besides, part of the fun is riding a true classic. I don't think it would be the same to me if I just went out and bought it. There's something about finding that old dusty, forgotten machine and bringing it back to working condition again all these years later.

           RE:WANTED: Drooling towels ready? posted by Matthew on 1/2/2008 at 3:43:07 PM
Hi Steve, I bet the last Pashley you saw was hard at work delivery the post (mail). Pashley have the current contract for Royal Mail bicycles.

Joe I didn't use a calculator for my guess at the price. I listen to the business news on BBC Radio 4 (try www.bbc.co.uk ). I'm glad my guesstimate was near the mark.

Matthew - its in the maths

           RE:WANTED:   Drooling towels ready? posted by Steve on 1/2/2008 at 6:30:59 PM
Thanks Matthew, I hadn't stopped to think for one moment who supplied the Royal Mail bikes. I wonder if the contract comes with a maintenance deal or if they are maintained "in-house". It would be interesting to know how many are produced to fulfil the contract and over what time span.
Sorry, but having been involved with commercial vehicle purchasing (and selling) over the years, my mind automatically asks the above drab questions.
It's probably about time I cleaned the valves on my wireless and tuned in to other matters.

Anyhow, I broke all healthy & safety regulations today and it worked a treat !
I was drilling the surface rust from the inside of a wheel rim (tube side) whilst holding wheel and drill in a precarious position when it suddenly dawned on me that the traffic cone near to me had a firm round hole in the top
of it. To cut a long story short I got the scrap forks I removed from a frame recently and put the stem into the hole (perfect fit). Attach wheel to forks and hey presto no more backache. I can now stand up and drill away to my hearts content whilst the wheel rotates merrily depending on what angle you hold the drill at.
This is probably basic stuff to you thoroughbreds and no doubt you've all got your own ways of doing certain things.
Mind you I did have the common sense to wrap some tape in one or two positions on the spokes so that you know not to put your fingers in there when it is rotating at speed....it also makes a pretty pattern when it's going round (that's what my watching eight year old told me) !

Steve traffic cones are great but make sure it's a chunky heavy duty one !

           RE:WANTED:   Drooling towels ready? posted by Terence on 1/4/2008 at 12:58:45 AM
Thanks Matthew, but if you interested in Pashley bike there is a local dealer in North Carolina. He normally does free shipping in U.S. e-mail contact is milesawhelen@mac.com, phone number is 1-800-321 5511. It may help you, I already have a vintage Raleigh Sports bike(1970's model) & same like Pashley Roadster Soverign.
Buy one have fun!!!.

           RE:WANTED: Drooling towels ready? posted by Matthew on 1/4/2008 at 10:49:58 AM

Hi Terence,

I'm the same side of the water as Pashley but thanks for the info, I'm sure it will help somebody here.

Matthew - English and Roadster.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by: sam on 12/31/2007 at 5:32:41 PM
These were only made in 1969 and only sold in the U.S.A.---none were made for the U.K. market.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by smitty on 12/31/2007 at 7:16:24 PM
I think it is more like mid to late 70s. I wonder if it was made by the same mfg as the Yamaha motobike (I think that is what it was called) But it looks very simuler to me.

           RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Joe on 12/31/2007 at 11:40:27 PM
Try the BMX forums.
The best I can do is that its not in the 1968, 1969, or 1980 dealer binders that I have but it does show up in the 1976 catalog and order forms. There was also one with a tank that appears to have had a different frame. These were the R5 models. It appears that it may have been built in Canada only?
This was very similar if not a direct copy or clone of bikes sold by Iverson, Rollfast, and Ross at about the same time. I believe the Yamaha Moto Bike came out in about 1974. These were only rare since they never really caught on, they were priced higher than most others and came about a bit late, but the time these were out, the BMX craze had moved on to more race worthy bikes and less of the motorcycle look a like bike that was more popular in the early years.

See these links:


           RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by sam on 1/1/2008 at 11:17:45 AM
Correction,it was 1976 not 69(what was I thinking!!)Only one year made then Raleigh decided to get out of BMX.Like schwinn raleigh made the mistake of think bmx was a passing fad.Not postive where these frames were built---I though Nottingham.They appear to be a modified chopper but the frame is a bit different and the fork was special to these.Not much interest in them with the BMX or Chopper guys.Shame,they are nice when fixed up as a "Kid" rider.Or as an interest to a raleigh collector.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Joe on 1/1/2008 at 1:31:06 PM
Take note to the one piece American style cranks on these. If you've ever worked on one, they more resemble an American bike than a British made Raleigh.
Raleigh didn't get out of the BMX market back then, they brought out the Burner and Grifter after the MX went away. The MX wasn't really a true BMX, it was more of a motorcycle look a like or just a kids bike. The R5 went even farther with the plastic tank and sprung shocks. They were too heavy to compete with regular BMX bikes and the forks just didn't take the abuse. They were more for show than go. I think Raleigh continued making BMX style bikes all the way on up through the years, they missed the boat though when it came to weight, most of their bikes were really heavy when compared to some of the other brands being made back then.
Try this link for more info: http://bmxmuseum.com/bikes/raleigh/

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by sam on 1/1/2008 at 8:24:46 PM
this model has the 3 piece cranks---I think the one shown is missing the cranks but the BB is standard raleigh 3 piece cottered type.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Joe on 1/2/2008 at 12:17:26 AM
Which headbadge does it have? Does is say "Nottingham England" on it?
If I recall there was one model that had an odd shaped crank arm, the arms sort were curved near the crank axle, (narrow crank axle). These were three piece cranks. I think I had a set of those cranks here at one time.
The R5, R10, and R11 list one piece cranks, I don't have a parts breakdown on the MX, only an order form for that year. The Grifter, R6, R7 and R9 models all list a crank axle.


           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by sam on 1/2/2008 at 11:06:47 AM
This one on ebay I can't tell.I have one I got as a frame and parts.The head badge was mostly gone---it was a sticker type--I'm told they were the same as the ovel sticker used on the small kids models bikes.It wasfun to build up from parts and I keep it for the kids whem the drop by to visit---keeps them off my bikes.I do remember the original crank set was small with a round chainguard rivited to the chainring(which was made to the crank arm like most sports models only had 40 or less tooth)
Might be interesting to build one of these up using a s/a 3 speed and center shifter---kinda chopper style.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Chris on 1/4/2008 at 9:35:40 AM
Canada was very weird for bikes. Especially English Raleighs, of which Canada had a lot of.
I had one of these run across my hands back in 1988-92 while cleaning out an old shop on East Erie street in Windsor, Ontario Canada. I remember this bike you are mentioning. It went to a fellow I knew along with coaster brake hubs.

He looked at me stunned and asked Where are you getting this stuff?
It was fun to do that to Joe! I remember the time I brought him this electric bike horn that was battery operated. I told him it would not work and I was impatient and I had written it off as broken and irrepairable. He said "Wait, He took it and got W.D. 40 and a screw driver and he sat and tapped and whacked the horn and used the W.D. 40 and slowly, while sitting at the kitchen table it came back to life and it was loud!
He grinned as I sat there unbelieving what had happened and he sat there with the button down blowing the horn.
Those were good times he always liked what I brought him.

I remember him telling me he had no funds and therefore he was going to miss the Omellenchuck auction.

I had like $180.00 and wrestled away Chater lea parts away.

That auction, missing that one ranks high among my missed boats and screw ups. Joe was so depressed he didn't want to talk. In the future......
When the police want to know why I have $20,000. straped to my body in hundred dollar bills, I will tell them it's so I don't miss another Omellenchuck auction!
Omellenchuck made alloy rims, had tooling there to make them. His wife Jeannie raced in the Olympics and he was a collector, builder, pack rat, who trained riders for the Olympics and there was enough old, boxed, goodies and vintage bikes there to make Hillary Stone get light headed! Tens of thousands of dollars of vintage parts went so cheap you would cry. The auctioneers were overwhelmed and did not care and they just wanted it gone. All this within 10 miles of my home base. Five states and Canada under my belt and the biggest stash was literally right under my nose. None of the area vultures were there. The clock parts collection and whale oil lanterns and Campagnolo boxed sets went so cheap it was a sin. I did not recognize any bike collectors and I know most of them or recognize their names.
Today, on e- bay it would reach $300,000.00 for all what we saw. Trailways bus's filled with wheels all with B.H hubs. It was like a treasure cave appearing like a mirage and then it dissolves around you at dawn and you are not done carrying it away as it vanashes.

Keep emergency funds on your person and look right in your own neighborhood be able to get a truck within 1 hour are the lessons to remember.

These people like their privacy are hidden away in plain little buildings fenced off, out in the boondocks, hermits who don't associate later on in life.

You have to able to strike deep and hard while the iron is hot and being there at the right moment is key.
The greatest stash I ever saw and we blew it. My stomach is sour the memories are flooding back. I am going to stop typing now.

Good Luck!

           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Chris on 1/4/2008 at 9:46:09 AM
It was my first auction. I had never been to an auction. Stunned at what lay before us I could not speak.

At an auction one has to be able to speak and speak quickly and you have to have money most of all.

I can only imagine what Hillary Stone in England has seen and bought and where all he's been. I rank Hillary as King of all of this. Holding the keys to the great treasure hoards of vintage cycledom itself.
I'm living in the wrong country!
Toodle- Pip!

           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Chris on 1/4/2008 at 10:05:48 AM
As the police stand around me, there with flashlights asking why I have so much money on my person they will be mentioning drugs. Am I selling drugs? they will ask.
my answer?
"Oh Hell No! officer I look for old bikes."
I'll tell them.... No! I look for and buy vintage bicycles and parts and this is for the times they won't take a debit or credit card! He might even tell me he has a bike for sale and write the phone number on the back of his card. Stranger things have happened! Serriously,
Come to think of it the adventures I have had and places visited and seen and cleaned out and things bought , ridden, sold and traded have been more fun and rewarding, and pleasureable than any drug out there!

I would not trade my adventure filled " bikre trip" for anything!

My friend Joe in Pa, who talks like Cheech from Cheech and Chong Hey Chris, try some of this man, it's good stuff!

( It's a Sturmey- Archer F.M. hub four speed alloy)

The Omellenchuck auction was cash only! Held on a Sunday when the banks were closed.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by hotrodzombie on 1/8/2008 at 9:08:41 AM
Great to see information on these bikes still coming out of the woodwork. :)

I have a Raleigh MX that I am planning on restoring. As far as I know it's the only one in the UK, so is very special to me.

I don't know much about them, but keep trawling the internet for info about them (hence I show up here!). As far as I know, the parts were produced at the Raleigh factory in Nottingham then shipped to Canada for assembly.

If you want a parts breakdown, check this page out: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/retroraleighs/catalogs/1977-drawings/index.html

(see the bottom of the page)

If anyone has any other information about these bikes that they wish to share with me, I would be delighted to hear from you.

cheers -HRZ-


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by Chris on 1/9/2008 at 10:12:57 AM
Canada. Bingo!

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: one of the rarest raleighs ever made posted by paul on 8/4/2008 at 8:25:53 PM
Just curious if anyone would know the value of a Raliegh MX, new, in the box? I have a friend whose Dad used to own a bike shop and he found it stashed away in the rafters of the barn the shop used to be in. It's unassembled, all there and red in color. Any clue?

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Another high-priced machine posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/30/2007 at 5:42:29 AM

A nice Superbe for sure.... price is somewhat high... and yet, it's got a bid already.

A Superbe "S"? What's that all about?

Larry "Boneman" Bone - not a student of economics....

           RE:AGE / VALUE:���Another high-priced machine posted by Joe on 12/30/2007 at 9:55:03 PM
Not much for pics for that price either. Someone must think it's worth the bid. Looks like a normal later 70's Raleigh Tourist to me. I don't recall a model named Tourist 'S'. The pics are really dark which blocks out a lot of details.
I am also always a bit suspicious of any auction that hided the bidder's identity.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Another high-priced machine posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/31/2007 at 6:00:59 AM
Yeah... what's up with that hidden bidder stuff? Weird.

Well... more power to the sellor if he gets his price.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Another high-priced machine posted by David on 12/31/2007 at 12:29:26 PM
I think it's a Euro/Dutch model . Missing a part from the chaincase. I wonder if they "needed" to make it a private auction so we couldn't see that the one bid is from the seller himself.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Another high-priced machine posted by Joe on 12/31/2007 at 11:55:10 PM
I'm not sure about the Holland part, I have a Grand Prix that says made in Holland from 1977 and the headbadge lacks the Nottingham, England part on the bottom. It does appear to have a fork bracket and tire generator as well as a Dynohub? I can see something on the left side ahead of the brake and the front hub looks pretty large. the pics are pretty dark, I emailed them asking for better pics but got no response.
If they did bid on their own item, then they will most likely cancel the sale before it ends or pay the final value fee for nothing.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Another high-priced machine posted by Zach Mathews on 1/1/2008 at 9:30:02 PM
Those are drum brakes. The big front hub is not a dyno. I'd bet you anything that 1st "bid" is actually a reserve price in disguise. I've been watching bike prices up & down California for months & it doesn't fit. $500 would be more sensible - the bike is gorgeous.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Another high-priced machine posted by Joe on 1/4/2008 at 9:47:38 PM
I didn't realize that they did rod brakes with a brake drum and brake stirrup over the fender?
Anyhow, someone decided it was worth $900. It may be a nice bike, but I don't think I could bring myself to spend that on a bike no matter how nice it was. I guess I've just found too many nice ones in trash piles and yard sales.

I had emailed that sale for better pics twice, never got a response of any kind. That alone would keep me from bidding no matter what the price. I would think that if I had something listed at that amount, I'd be pretty quick to answer any questions.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by: Pete on 12/28/2007 at 5:14:04 PM
Been posting/reading all the posts here for several years now and it suddenly dawned on me that with our common interest in older bicycles how little we know about each other apart from their bikes.
Would be interesting to know how or what got others interested in older English roadsters,would also be interesting to find out a little about their backround to see what sort of person is interested in the same thing as me/us etc.
To start the ball rolling here's a little about me and why I love old bikes and whatI do:
As you know I'm Pete, I live in the UK where the cider apples grow and got into Bicycles about 5 years ago I guess by accident/misfortune as I could not afford a classic English motorbike.(I dearly would like a Norton ES2 pre 1950 but funds will not permit)Since realization dawned and the ES2 was deemed out of reach the bicycles have overridden my desires and my new desire is an ordinary (penny farthing) of proper vintage and not a replica.Now have a shed full of pre 1940 bicycles and various oil and carbide lamps which I really enjoy owning/riding/preserving/restoring etc.
I've always been deemed to be an "old fart" preferring older things to new,I'm 41 years old going on 70.My first car was an austin A30 (everyone else was driving Escorts and minis highly modified......not for me) My favourite car I ever owned was a Rover 95 (P4) 1963 vintage.
By trade I am a panel beater/sprayer (the old school variety where quality comes before price)Currently off work due to ill health and smarting from having to pay an extortionate vets bill for one of the cats which now has 3 legs!
Missing older values and worried about skills being lost to "money men" taking over as seems to be the way of the world at the moment.Guess I'll have to invent the time machine and go back to a time where quality of engineering and values were placed more highly than a monetary value.The time when our interest (proper bikes)was at it's peak.
Pete...off to the shed to build to build a time machine.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Matthew on 12/29/2007 at 9:25:36 AM
Well here goes.

Real name - Matthew
Home - Norfolk, England
Job - Social work
Trade - agricultural engineer
Family - Wife & 3, son 22, daughters 19 & 15
Current car 2003 British racing green Rover 25 2 litre turbo diesel
First car 1958 Austin A30 in black
First bike - Triang with front only rod brake
Fisrt Adult bike - Triumph Trafficmaster - Raleigh 20 clone.
Favourite Bike - My 'unknown' tradebike
Most missed / never should have sold bike - too many to consider but possibly my Elswick tradebike, sold when I was 16.
Best cycling moment - Round Norfolk tandem ride with a friend, 200 miles in three days or a 76 miles ride on the tradebike.
Best website - here, where else? been posting for about 8+ years.
Don't appreciate - limey bashing and prejudice.

Sorry this is unlike me but I'm rushing. Less narrative more fact.

Matthew - its all rather personal.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Edward in Vancouver on 12/29/2007 at 7:52:27 PM
Occupation: Chef. Currently working in my own chocolate shop/cafe.
Age 43

Not big on cars, first one I ever owned was a '72 Buick Skylark, big motor, lousy brakes...

First bike I ever owned/rode was a "Sears" 20" "convertable". That is, the top tube was removable, and could be converted to a girl's bike. (my sister was 2 yrs younger than I...) At age 6 I had other plans however and "modified" the bike with a friend's brother's bike parts (left in th drive, run over by his Dad...): Banana seat, Ape hanger bars, streamers, and a fat rear tire.. At age 15 I had saved up enough to buy a real "10 speed".

My fascination with all bikes English came when I visted a sports consignment store and saw a beat up Raleigh Superbe.(Buried under 3 coats of Canadian Tire's finest silver spray paint...) Never in my life had I seen a 3 spd dyno-hub, oil ports on the BB, locking front fork or "weird" caliper brakes that had no eyebolts. Intrigued I bought it, and at age 38 spent a lot of time, money, research and effort restoring it.

What a blast!

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/30/2007 at 5:18:15 AM
Name: Larry, Dingmans Ferry, PA, USA
Avocation: Packaging Design Tech, Mars, Inc.
Current Car: '07 Pontiac G5 GT
Current Motorbike: '01 Kawasaki Vulcan Drifter 800
Daughter: 24
Grand daughter: 3

Forgive me Pete... but my first MOTORBIKE... was a 1950 AJS 500cc Twin... I forget the model... ;-) Alas.... it became nearly impossible to get parts for (pre-internet years)... including having to special order "Gold Palladium" spart plugs!

First car? a 1963 Plymouth Valiant. Pushbutton automatic trans, 171cid "Slant 6"

I've stated here before... my initial interest in what we wrongly refered to at the time as "English Racer" bicycles was shortly after I had been given a Columbia "Playbike" (muscle bike) for Christmas in the late 60's. A buddy had just acquired a brand new Dunelt 3-speed that same year. Interestingly enough, he really wanted a muscle bike... and I ratler liked his machine... and we would often "trade" machines... if not for the day... at least for an hour or so.

That machine captured my interest... apparantly on a very deep level indeed. To the point where I slaved two summers cutting grass (1969 & 1970) to save up the handsome sum of $100 in order to purchase my very own Sprite 27 10-speed. I rode that thing everywhere...

As with most... once we start piloting motorized machines... and entering the "adult" world... oft times our "toys" of the past get set aside. My dad eventually disposed of the Columbia... and then gave away my Sprite.

Years go by... and I never really lost the affinity for the Enlish Bicycles... though, for many years... I didn't even own any bicycles at all. I did play around with a 21 speet GT mountain bike for a while.... but... then.....

Decided 4 years ago.... I missed riding bicycles. Thought... "Gee... what would be nice... an olde English machine".... What I ended up with was the very large frame Sprite 5-Speed that I've pictured here before... my very first ever Ebay purchase.

The rest... is, shall we say.. history.... I have a basement full of machines.... from my "feaux" Armstrong Clumbman to my 74 DL-1. Wish I had more time to spend on them too.

As far as the balance of life.... I've been trying to sell my home here on the mountain for almost two years... so that my Fiance and I can like... you know... actually buy a place TOGETHER... She has her place to sell too... but mine must go first. Real Estate here in the US is beyond dead... so, that part of life... is... and has been... "on hold". We're not thrilled... but we're abiding as best as we can.

As stated, I work as a Packaging Development Tech / Prototype Specialist for Mars, Inc. The folks that put the "M"... and almost anything else you may be willing to pay for... on your M&M's Chocolate Candy. As such, I hold one US patent... have filed for another... and am working on a third.

Other interest include: Boating, Fishing, MUSIC (Another OCD obsession as I own no less than 8 guitars), motorcycling and photography.

I enjoy going online for the most part... but over time, had seen too many discussion boards "decay". It's interesting that the English Roadster board is not at all one of them. Seems we're very much a civilized lot... and even if things go awry we're very quick to rectify any such issues. Usually attributed to a missed meaning or simple misunderstanding.

LOL... you want to see a Motorcycle or Automotive duscussion board break down into name-calling anarchy... start a thread about either Oil or Tires... It can get downright ugly.

A great topic Pete. Kewl to learn a bit more about our fellow denizens. I daresay... many of us are well on our wey to becoming anachronisms... and certainly I for one am a self-professed Luddite. ;-) (Another interest of mine... WORDS).


Larry "Boneman" Bone

           RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Warren on 12/30/2007 at 8:57:18 AM
I'm a self employed film and broadcast editor/producer/writer currently living in the town of Wolfville Nova Scotia with my wife Elizabeth, Adelaide(8) and Cole(10). I'll be 50 in 3 days. Yikes.

We opted out of urban life 18 months ago when we exited downtown Toronto and came to this small university town in the beautiful Annapolis Valley.

1st 2 wheeler, at 5 years old was a Raleigh single speed with 16 inch wheels.
1st car was a 69 Mustang coupe and 1st motorbike was a Honda Z50 minitrail. We currently drive old Volvo cars and old BMW motorbikes. Elizabth turned me on to Volvos when we met and that's all we've driven for 11 years. Just picked up a "new" 1990 740 wagon with only 200k kms! Also have a 91 240 sedan. In the motorbike world, we share 3 BMW's... a 72 R75/5, a 77 R60/7 and an 89 K75c. Incredible bikes, easy to maintain and relatively cheap to run as well. I would love to have a classic British bike, maybe a Norton featherbed (ES2, Dominator) or late 50's Thunderbird, AJS, Velocette, HRD (cough) will do nicely

You know most everything about my bike fetish since I rarely shut up about it so I've leave that alone. All I know is that everyone should have at least 6 bikes and at least 3 of those should be british.

My bike resolution is to restore my 51 CCM light Delivery bike this year and make it my daily rider.

Happy New Years to all you good people out there.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by Steve on 12/30/2007 at 3:15:53 PM
I must confess that I've only recently caught the bike bug again after an absence of some thirty years. I happened to be at a vintage agricultural machinery auction and purely by accident came across a pair of old sad looking bikes.
There was something appealing about them, so I bid and got the one I wanted (nobody seemed very interested)! I hadn't really got a clue what I'd got but nevertheless felt extremely proud and looked forward to getting it running again.
As kids, my brother and I would find bikes in the local stream, canal, pond etc and drag them home to be rebuilt or converted into Formula One racing cars which usually consisted of a scaffolding plank with wheel on each corner and a piece of rope attached to a flimsy wooden front axle to act as steering. Note - no brakes, just a good incline, a prayer or a nearby hospital was all that was needed !
I will lay the rest out methodically or else I will go off at a tangent and talk for ever.

Name: Steve
Home: London (but originally from the countryside).
Job : General "dogs body" of coach (bus) business.
Trade: Transport Manager (passenger road industry).
Family: Wife plus three.
Current car: Nil (I hire one or use the works van).
First car: MG 1100 saloon (67 Model) sounds good but it was a rust bucket.
First Bike: BSA single speed rodded childs bike with roll-over stand that unclipped from the rack and went underneath the rear wheel. I was aged about eight and I remember studying the BSA headstock badge and asking my dad what "small arms" were and why people in Birmingham suffered with this !
Someone managed to paint this bike with the left overs from the exterior house paint.........it still gives me nightmares to this day !
Strangely enough I did acquire a very similar Hercules recently, thankfully in original black.
First adult bike: 5 speed racer of some description.
Favourite bike: My old Herc Roadsters with K4 & K6 hubs.
Most missed/never should have sold bike: None - The bikes I've sold have been fairly modern or poor quality so it hasn't really bothered me.
Best cycling moment: Riding a vintage bike that I've bought back to life (especially after people laughed at me when I first acquired it as a heap).
Best Website: I was going to come out with a smart remark here but I have to say that I have really enjoyed reading other peoples comments, knowledge, ideas etc on this very website - it has helped me a great deal.
Don't appreciate:
(1) Cyclists.........going through red/stop lights at busy road junctions.
(2) Seeing rows of tyres hanging up in glamorous bike shops........none of which are of any use to me !
(3) Not having a cycle book that tells me everything I want to know !
(4) Having to convince my wife that there's only six bikes in the garage when shes counted 36 wheels !
Things I like: An old boy in an old fashioned traditional bike shop who knows exactly what I'm talking about.
To finish off, I must mention that I have maintained my wifes externally geared bike for the last twelve years until she had it stolen recently. I've since replaced this with a good old standard 68 model Raleigh Ladies 3-speed (I've just put a lovely new rack on the back which cost me a heck of a lot more than the bike itself)!
People I hate: Bike thieves.
Oh I almost forgot....my other interests are Crawler tractors i.e. Caterpillar, Marshall, Fowler etc etc.

Steve keep the info rolling in because I'm still a novice.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Matthew on 12/31/2007 at 5:27:20 AM
The bits I missed out.

We keep away from religion and politics here so I will keep to that but will just mention that my faith is very important to me.

Music; I play jazz percussion in a six piece band. I like so many different types of music it would take me a month to make a list. I don't like heavy metal, thrash metal etc.

Home; Is a small 1975 end terrace house in a medium sized village near the east coast (so near we don't often get a frost).

Other interests; Old tractors (see my 'trade' above, Local history or as it is said in Norfolk 'Loocle Histree' and the Norfolk dialect. Films particularly, but not exclusively, British. Writing prose and poetry. Corresponding with friends by letter; real-mail.

I try to make time for friends. Good friends are like good bicycles, a small amount of regular maintenance will keep them in good fettle for many years.

This DB is a staple of my life and has been a good resource of two way information for many years.

THANK YOU to Vin and the guys at Oldroads and to all the contributors here.

Matthew - 45 and spinning.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by sam on 12/31/2007 at 9:06:25 AM
Real name is Sammy,but that just means I'm a sam.Son now 25 is a sam too(getting married next year),daughter is 27(2&1/2 grand kids)The wife turned 51 and I'm 57(married 31 years today)
First bicycle was a sears middle weight with bendix manuel two speed for christmas 1959
First car was a 1948 chrysler fluid drive bought in 1960s---still have it.
motorcycle---had a harley
Work---all my life!started in the 5th grade with a paper route--since 1972 I've worked for the railroad(like my Dad)
I live in south texas--near San Antonio.
current bicycles---amoung others I have a 1952 Claud Butler,1936 Russ tandem,1955 Fothergill,1953 maclean,and a Raleigh sports.
My projects for next year are restoring a 1910 house and finishing a couple of wood wheel bicycles

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by Steve on 12/31/2007 at 10:36:17 AM
I deliberately forgot to mention that I played in a punk rock band in the late seventies early eightees............but don't worry I will never ever post any photos on this website (I would be to embarrassed). I've since matured into a "normal" person with abnormal hobbies (according to some people) and abnormal tastes in music (also according to some people).
I just don't see anything abnormal about Classical music, Jazz guitar improvisation, Roadsters, Steam, Vintage machinery and the smell of the countryside.
I'm just one of those people that can't sit still on a beach all day sunbathing, I have to be doing something.

Anyhow, you'll be pleased to hear I've just managed to acquire two new 20" x 1 3/8 tyres for my Junior Herc.
Quality is debatable (made in Indonesia), so the jury is out until something better comes along.

Steve have you got your New Years Day ride planned yet ?


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by Geoff on 12/31/2007 at 11:58:22 AM
Age: 48 3/4
Occupation: electricity salesman/ surplus military truck screener/ classic English car parts business owner
Residing in: Shutesbury, Massachusetts
Drive: 1960 MGA roadster/1963 Jaguar 3.8 Mark 2/1968 Volvo 122S/modernish VW and Volvo for the snow and salt. Also own 1955 Jaguar XK140, 1969 MGC roadster (neither running) and 1952 Dodge M37 to plow the driveway and drag the dead cars around
Live in: 1848 Greek Revival cape cod house, always needing repair and paint.
First cycle: AMF ballooner. Rubbish. Learned to fix bikes by talking Mum into bringing home three stationwagon loads of junk bike parts from the local dump. Spent the summer building bikes and selling them (aged 12). Learned about Sturmey Archer and Brooks and lugged frames. Fantastic stuff!
First car: 1961 Jaguar 3.8 Mark 2. Never got it running.
Current cycles: too many to mention, but several Sports, '35 R-R-A, '30s Dawes club bike, nice original '54 Superbe, '47 Lenton Clubman, '56 Super Lenton. Trying to thin the herd a bit, though.
Family: saintly wife, Andrea, son Angus, 13, daughter Fiona, 8. We all love to ride and the grownups appreciate the finer qualities of the Brooks saddle.
Other passions: Morris dancing, folk music and dance (I play guitar and mandolin), my community, natural history, Cape Cod, good live ale and Scotch whisky, in fact, almost anything English or Scottish, especially manufactured products from the 1930s, 1940's and 1950's, environmental justice (what's that? Oops! No politics here).

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Matthew on 1/1/2008 at 8:17:31 AM
So we have the makings of a folk, jazz-punk quartet with drums, guitar and mandolin + Steve.

Almost completely off subject, this is one of the best threads for a while. (the best so far in 2008!)

Matthew - glad I called in.

(Larry would you say 'called in' or 'called by' to indicate a social visit?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Ed on 1/1/2008 at 8:31:36 AM
I started in about 1975 (I was 11) restoring old bicycles with a neighbor that told me he was born before the advent of the automobile. His name was Leonard Carlson. He fixed up old bikes at his house and sold them. I have very strong hands and helped him with mounting tires. He gave me pick of the pile. I chose a 1957 Sunbeam 3 speed. I stripped it to the bare bones. He called it my scorcher. I now teach at a bicycle Recycling shop ( buffalobluebicycle.org ). This is a fun way to meet other bikers and share in the community. I live on the Niagara river at Gratwick park. About 5 miles up river from Niagara Falls My house is full of old bicycles. I have English 3 speeds, folding bicycles old French lightweights and modern bicycles. I sell some on EBAY. I work in a plumbing shop as a purchasing agent. I am influenced by geography to ride bicycles. The Niagara river has a path running down one side and up the other. Some of the best paths for cycling in the world. This is connected to the 500+mi. Erie canal trail Sunday December 30th I rode from Gratwick to the Peace Bridge and back along the path about 25 miles round trip. What nice weather! As far as internal combustion engines. They don't deserve mention. Very dull! HAPPY NEW YEAR! Ed

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by Pete on 1/2/2008 at 11:06:21 AM
Wow, that was interesting.To get to know a little about the people on here with a similair interest and to have a glimpse of their other interests and a bit of info on their day to day lives has certainly made the forums a more personal thing.It's great to see that our interest is spread over such diverse people from all backgrounds and regardless of wealth or social standing etc.Can only be good news for the longevity and appreciation of our beloved older bicycles for future generations to appreciate as much as we have and do.
My very best wishes to everyone and may we all find that two wheeled hidden treasure that's still out there somewhere in a basement and just waiting to be discovered.
Cheers Pete.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Neal on 1/3/2008 at 11:52:50 AM
I've enjoyed reading this thread and while I don't contribute very often to this forum, I do know several of you through trading bike parts, so I thought I'd add my bit:

Name: Neal Lerner
Job: I teach technical writing at MIT, Cambridge, MA (though I don't have a background as a scientist or engineer--mine's in English and Education)
Other significant employment: I worked as a bike mechanic/service manager in a couple of different shops from 1986-1990.
Family: Two kids: Hannah, age 9, Clay, age 5, and my wife Tania (who's a biology faculty member at MIT), two cats. We live in a house built in 1851 in Brookline, MA (a Boston suburb)
First car: Chevelle Malibu with a 307 engine
First bike: a green Vista Flyer (a POS)
Current bike fleet: 11 English bikes, mostly Raleighs, including Raleigh Clubmans from 1949, 1950 and 1951; several other bikes including my newest: a Kogswell P/R that I bought as a frameset and built up (650B wheels); rode today to the office on my Bridgestone CB-1 winter beater (at around 10 degrees F with a stiff wind!)
When I'm not teaching or fiddling with bikes or riding, I'm often running, my primary form of exercise all year round. Otherwise, I'm writing academic stuff for a very narrow audience (just finished a book draft a couple of weeks ago after two years work).

Best wishes to all for the new year!


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by JDuck on 1/4/2008 at 9:30:00 AM
I read this almost every day. I am 59 years old and live in Southern Wisconsin. I have a wife and two cats. I spent most of my working life in building maintenance. I am currently working part time as an office assistant in a law offce. I am sort of semi-retired but not by choice. My first car was 64 VW. I now prefer Subarus but will probably go for better gas mileage next time. I spent the three best years of my young life in the USAF in England. I have always been an anglophile. My father had a small welding/repair shop when I was a kid and all my bikes were built out of junk parts. They got me around though. I always wanted an "English Racer". When I got out the airforce, I bought a new 1973 Sports with Brooks B-72 and tire pump. Very stupidly I sold it a few years later to move "up" to a ten speed. I have kicked myself ever since. After not biking at all for ten years or better, I decided to get back in. I have a 1973 sports that I was given after bugging the guy that had it sitting outside his garage. The paint is bad but I have returned it to mechanical perfection. I also have a Phillips Ranger that I put together from just a frame and one fender. I don't know the exact age as it had no rear wheel. I have a 1959 AW on it. I would love to have a large frame DL-1 but any I can find are far out of my price range. I keep busy by digging bikes out of the junk and making them into interesting machines. Most have north roads style bars and some are single speeds. I try to ride them all and the locals think I am nuts. Suits me just fine. For better or worse, I do all my own maintenance.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Why and what posted by Pete on 1/4/2008 at 2:54:02 PM
Mr JDuck, you sound a bit out of place in that law office.
I like what you're saying though about the locals thinking you're nuts and you don't care,all sounds too familiar!
If I win the lottery big time I'm going to pay for all the members here to come and sample some British beer,morris dancing and general bikey chat accompanied of course by the newly formed english roadster quartet.
I have been known to shake a mean tamborine after several ales so if the band are still recruiting,,,,,let me know!
A night out like that would definitely be a blast.
Cheers Pete the tamborine man.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Why and what posted by Matthew on 1/5/2008 at 4:16:17 AM
Hey Pete,

Roll on that lottery win! Mine's a Spitfire, or maybe pnit of Wherry, or Nelson's revenge?

Matthew - so much good ale so little time!

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Any colour you like as long as it's black ! posted by: Steve on 12/28/2007 at 11:57:25 AM
Just come in from the garage having completely stripped down a 55 rodded Raleigh to the bare bones(frame)!
I'm just glad I filled the headstock with diesel fuel yesterday so that life was made easier today whilst trying to get the handlebar stem out without damaging it. Is there an easy way of doing this or do they always put up a good fight ?
Anyhow, whilst twisting, pulling, swearing and generally questioning the meaning of life whilst doing the above I couldn't help but notice that my more interesting bikes (in my opinion) are black which made me think of Henry Ford and Ted Crane(Hercules)and no doubt many others.
Were they colour blind or just to busy rolling them off the production line to bother with such a minor matter.
(1) Were other colours available pre I guess the 1930s.

(2) Was there a premium to pay for this if they were available.

(3) Was it the automobile or the cycle industry that made the break through into glamorous colours first.

I think the above questions prove that I've got no cycling history books here............just a pair of oily hands and loads of even oilier but healthy tools !

Steve the novice and Happy New Year when it arrives.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Any colour you like as long as it's black ! posted by edgar x on 12/28/2007 at 3:16:30 PM
Once Ford's assembly line was fully operational (mid-teens?) they went to all black because it dried quick enough to not slow things down. Before that you could have a variety of colors.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Any colour you like as long as it's black ! posted by sam on 12/28/2007 at 10:15:37 PM
Manny other colors were used.The original color industry came from germany in the form of dyes.I think they were trying to make gun power and ended up with color dye.
and Old Henry's black was really Japaned(a very dark green or blue)that only looked black.It dryed in minutes.
Manny of the brit bikes were painted black and re-painted a color on order.They were oved dried)You will find a lot of them showing the black through the color coat.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Any colour you like as long as it's black ! posted by Matthew on 12/29/2007 at 9:15:34 AM
Hi Folks,

Early Rudges were often deep red (maroon) Royal Enfields were sometimes blue and Raleighs of all ages were available in, and sometimes exclusively, green.

In England black was fashionable throughout the Victorian period due to Royal preference with primary colours considered garish or vulgar. Red was the fore runner to hi-viz in a less complicated world and was associated with the General Post Office and fire brigades from very early on. Navy blue was just that and a lighter blue was French and we certainly didn't want that did we? Yellow was extremely loud and vulgar best left for fairground roundings and hoardings.

Black was classless and yet gave an air of distinction. White of course was not at all practical.

Matthew - multi-cloured but predominantly pink.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:    Satans Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by: Christopher on 12/26/2007 at 10:46:28 AM
I did a very stupid thing, needing a ride for a job interview... I made a friend who turned out to be the town turd and I'm sorry I accepted a ride in that car! I had the scare of my life and we nearly died! This person is not going to be near me ever again. Not in my world!
I will run the other way!
Traveling along the same roads as beloved family and friends are complete lunatics. This fellow could not stay in his lane, went off the road, nearly sideswiped cars, people honked and I screamed and pleaded to be let out! He is taking psych drugs and god knows what else! and loves to drink on top of that. A lot! I persuaded him to pull over and I ended up being a chauffeur. It was that or walk 100 miles back into town. No police anywhere to save me. I'd be grabbing the lapel of the officers coat screaming "Save me!"

The system fails, these goons get behind the wheel and go out regulary and put everybody at risk. I am not going to chaufer him ever again and so, Look out! It's just a matter of time before he kills himself and who ever is unlucky enought to be near him. Hopefully, he'll get arrested. Dear God! The types that are out there driving! I don't miss driving a car. I love my little bicycle. I am safe from the Devils angels that drive.
We need the police to be able to stick a gizmo into the mouth and analyze the leagal and especially illegal drugs, booze in the saliva of a motorist and when the thing lights up like a christmas tree..... put them in jail and take their car and sell it and give the proceeds to the police departments for more bullet proof vests or whatever equipment they need. Finally getting calmed down enough to rest four days later.
Everybody please be careful out there, especially cyclists who have nothing around them.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:    Satan's Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by Christopher on 12/26/2007 at 11:35:02 AM
The officer walks up and inquires if you have been drinking.
They need to go a little further...

Are you on mediacation (s)? Do you have a mental history? are you suicidal? are you possessed by devils?
The cops don't ask enough questions!
My old grandmother said it best when she said to "be home in bed before 10 p.m.!"

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    Satan's Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by Christopher on 12/26/2007 at 11:47:57 AM
I'll have enough money for a car soon and I will have mixed feelings about driving again.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:    Satans Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by Kevin on 12/26/2007 at 2:45:23 PM
Yet another good reason to restore the old Raleigh in the basement ...

           RE:AGE / VALUE: Satans Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by Matthew on 12/29/2007 at 12:37:28 PM
Did you get the job?

Matthew - just asking

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Satans Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/30/2007 at 5:27:02 AM
Chris... not for nothing, and please don't take this at all as an affront... You're one of the most eloquent folks that I've had the pleasure to observe online. All your posts here are well written... and nearly photographic in their descriptive quality.

I daresay, you could harvest all your posts on this forum over the years I've been here... string them all together and it would make for a most interesting book! ;-)

That being said... sounds like an harrowing experience... and I'm surely glad you got through it safely.

It's interesting to note... And sometimes many don't think it through... but there are so many circumstances in life where we literally put our lives in the hands of others. 99.9% of the time, it works out... but then you hear of experiences such as the one Chris just went through.... and it becomes nearly un-imaginable how a simple act.. such as getting a lift... can put us in such jeopardy.

Even riding a bike along side the road. A colleague of mine, whilst riding his... was struck by an SUV... he went flying... landed on his helmeted head....

It pretty much was a major life-changing event... as he was never able to return to work... and to this day suffers from debilitating headaches. I'm not real big on helmets for bicyclists... but in this case, I believe it saved his life...

Chris, glad to hear you're OK... let's all hope that for all of us, '08 is a banner year!


Larry "Boneman" Bone

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Satans Angels are roaming the roads, behind the wheel! posted by Chris on 1/2/2008 at 8:54:08 AM
Update! Thought you'd like to know!
He got a ticket for 29 over the limit! he was going like 90 miles perr hour! He has a court date! grin! hee- hee! oh, I love it!
I learned this before telling him I won't allow him in my world ever again.
Chris- safe on the bike, alone and safe!
I appreciate your concern. I'll be more cautious.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   Tire source? 26" x 1 3/8" posted by: Joe on 12/26/2007 at 2:58:11 AM
I was wondering what was a good look the part tire for a Raleigh sports? I have been running good used tires for some time, those from Kenda that the local shops stock are look undersized when mounted on the Raleigh rims. They look more like 1 1/4" tires than 1 3/8" to me.
Tire prices online are just out of range, I've seen some listed at $29 and $39 each plus shipping, that puts a pair of tires at $72, I bought 2 tires for my car for less. These aren't high tech or ultra light road bike tires, just plain old blackwall three speed tires. The ideal tire would look correct for the bike and not be so narrow and low that I have to worry about rim damage.


           RE:MISC:   Tire source? 26 posted by Kevin on 12/26/2007 at 4:59:16 AM
When I needed tires, I bought a girl's lightweight at a rummage sale for $5, removed a good set of tires and other parts, and discarded the rest.

           RE:MISC: Tire source? 26 posted by Matthew on 12/26/2007 at 5:07:13 AM
hi Joe,

if you are in the states then I am given to understand that Wallmart stock the tyres (tires) that you need.

Matthew - its amazing what you learn here!

           RE:RE:MISC: Tire source? 26 posted by Christopher on 12/26/2007 at 11:41:43 AM
Tires at Wal mart have kevlar beads now instead of wire beads and are sold folded up in boxes. Tubes are one size fits all at least for 26 inch tubes.
Wal mart, the fine folks who brought you China made Huffy bikes, the folks responsible for the closure of the 100 year old hardware/ clothing store in a small town near you.

           RE:RE:RE:MISC: Tire source? 26 posted by Chris on 12/26/2007 at 11:44:33 AM
There are lots of things wal mart does not carry. Hot pots, electric kettles that heats hot water and other things.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Tire source? 26 posted by Joe on 12/26/2007 at 12:41:57 PM
No 26x1 3/8" tires in Walmart either. The one here still has some wire bead tires, but their all pretty much low end junk. I tried a pair of 27" tires last year, I couldn't find one that was round, the sidewalls ran into the tread and vise versa. The tubes are pretty much one size fits all in Walmart, but I've seen the same thing with this size in most shops too.

           RE:MISC: Tire source? 26 posted by Matthew on 12/26/2007 at 4:00:31 PM
Joe & Chris,

As a UK resident and British citizen I have never shopped at Wallmart and was not making a personal recommendation. We have a Wallmart owned subsidiary over here called ASDA (associated dairies)and I don't shop there at all. How ever I do shop at other big supermarket chains and none are better than the rest. The loss of corner shops and local retail experts in hardware, bicycles, electrical goods etc has been going on all my life and seems no faster now than when I was a boy in the 60s. Bulk buying, poor wages, cartels, out of town retail developments have all contributed to the demise of local shops.

Matthew - mourning but realsitic

           RE:RE:MISC: Tire source? 26 posted by Joe on 12/26/2007 at 11:04:41 PM
Unfortunately thats the case here too, we have one good bike shop near me, all the others are chain run stores with no really clue when it comes to anything that was built more than a few years ago. I doubt if those that order inventory for places like Walmart have any clue as to what those tires they ordered actually fit, or care for that matter.

The local shops can't and don't even try to compete, it's nearly immposible to tell or even show the average consumer the difference between a $49.99 bike and one that sells for $400 in a bike shop. All they see is cheap bikes. Most people don't care for their bikes anyhow. I worked in a shop for some time years ago and I was shocked at how many really nice bikes came back for service or repair that were simply stored outdoors all the time. Most died of rust and neglect.
I can't imagine telling someone now that they need two new tires and tubes for their 5 year old bike and it will run them $80+. Most would junk the bike. The cheapest tires in the local bike shop are in the $16 range, and those were super cheap road tires. The majority of bikes sold are comfort or mountain bikes, those tires are higher yet. Most in the $21 and up range, figure another $5 each for tubes and something for labor and I don't see how they stay in business at all.
Part of the problem is that the local bike shops just don't do the volume to be able to buy quantity to be able to compete with the big chain stores.
Another problem is the high mark up lately with the rise in fuel and shipping costs. That and I am sure along with some greed has driven the parts prices up out of reach. I find it hard to believe that a wholesaler needs to sell at a higher price to a bike shop than can be had online to a retail customer. Tires are an excellent example of this.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Off on one again! posted by: Matthew on 12/25/2007 at 4:55:42 PM

Hi Folks,

Hope your Christmas was a good one and that you enjoyed peace relaxation and good company.

I have been reflecting, as one does, and I know already what I'm doing in September 2008. I'm off on another epic ride, probably about 300 miles in all and spread over five days ending in the capital, LONDON, having started in Hunstanton, Norfolk. I will ride the East Anglian (Norfolk, Suffolk & Essex)coast to raise funds for the renown Royal National Lifeboat Institution, which is a wholly voluntary funded lifesaving organisation providing all(bar one) of the UK's all weather life boats and most of the inshore lifeboats too. No UK government money goes to save lives by boat, at sea in British waters.

I will keep you posted about my ride and of course there is only one choice of machine for such a ride. Yes of course, my trusty trade bike! See it on Flickr in the 'working bicycles' group.

Matthew - mad* - for all the right reasons

(*mad = slightly eccentric; not as in US English mad = angry)

           RE:AGE / VALUE: Off on one again! posted by Matthew on 12/25/2007 at 5:07:38 PM
I forgot this link, most important.


The specific fund I'll be supporting will be 'train one save many'.

Matthew - and so to bed.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Off on one again! posted by Steve on 12/26/2007 at 3:53:57 AM
Interesting stuff Matthew and very worthwhile.
My wife has planned our Boxing Day outing here and I'm glad to say it involves a bike ride of approximately four or five miles to a shop with some vouchers (well you can't have everything can you) !
My dilemma is which bike to use.
Do I use my trusty old emergency friend of twenty five years which my sister found abandoned and gave to me............it's hand painted in Hammerite grey/gray and silver, has standard S/A AW 3-speed and is nothing special to look at but has come to my rescue on many occasion in the past.
I don't even know what make it is although judging by the style of frame number (which is located on the framework above the rear brake caliper assembly)I suspect possibly Puch. When I've figured out how to decrease the size of my 760kb photos I will place it on "readers rides" together with some of my other much older stuff.
So it's a choice between Roadster or Alien ?

Finally, a basic safety tip.
I was fixing the old twenty inch junior Herc the other night and decided to inflate the dodgy looking tyres just to see out of interest where the air would instantly gush out from..............well it didn't.
Well it didn't not until about ten minutes afterwards when the front tyre exploded just as I was dismantling the rod assembly.
Thirty pounds of pressure doesn't sound much to me but when it catches you unaware and hits you in the face you then realise what a fool you've been !

Steve the novice and still learning.

           RE:AGE / VALUE: Off on one again! posted by Matthew on 12/26/2007 at 5:12:14 AM
Hi Steve,

I too have been hit by bits of flying tyre and have been rendered temporarily deaf by the consequent report. My Dad literally blew up the front tyre on my trade bike when he rescued it. The war grade Dunlop tyre and butyl John Bull innertube gave up after 60 years. Poor show!

Matthew - I'll take the coast road.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Off on one again! posted by Steve on 12/26/2007 at 10:10:29 AM
It was a lovely sunny winters day so I chose the Roadster (of course).
We enjoyed our ride so much that we totally forgot about the shops (ha ha ha).

Question. Why do certain cycle shop assistants look at me as though I've recently escaped from somewhere supposedly secure when I ask for 20" x 1 3/8 tyres ?

Please tell me that they're still produced (even if it's in a land far far away that I'll probably never ever go to) !

...>>>>>>>> MORE MESSAGES >>>>>>>>

HOME (OldRoads.com) Discussion Areas Literature and Price Guide Cleaning Kit Glossary
Stat and Feature Database Picture Database Serial Number Charts General Resources