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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by: Steve on 6/4/2010 at 2:33:16 PM
Had a bike turn up here recently with a 26 x 1 3/8 Dunlop Tandem War Grade tyre attached.
I was wondering what the differences are/were in War Grade and standard tyres ?
by: 93.96.36.127

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           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Chris on 6/4/2010 at 6:01:44 PM
The war grade tyres are way way cool, awesome and neat as all get out to own in your bike stash. I am asking you to share pictures of this tyre really, I'd like to see it especially neat and rare because it also says tandem on it!

they are thicker, last longer more heavily constructed, able to withstand more glass, thorns, war grade explains it all. please post pictures!

I love all the different tires tyres from thru these years on these bicycles
Standard tyres had treads that were not as long, as large, standard wears out quicker war grade tyres were standard tyres pumped up on steriods. still geeked up because this says tandem on it.

Can't tell you how many times I see tires on a bike and want to buy the bike just to lay my little hands on the tire or pair of tires. I am a bicycle tire conouseur!
British bicycle tires are magical. They really are.

The story goes that Dunlop who was already tired of Raleigh bashing them in the head every year when it came time to haggle prices and this one year Raleigh got greedy and well, just too agressive in negiotating prices and when the Dunlop executive heard what Raleigh's offer was for that seasons supply of tires the Dunlop people told the Raleigh exectutive something along the lines of (Forgive me)

F... you! and the horse you rode in on!
The Raleigh guy said: "Excuse me?"

"We will stop production of all Bicycle tires. We will cease. This is it. There is not enough money in this to make it worthwhile for us."

The Raleigh people thought the phone would ring, that it would be all right. Dunlop would change their mind. They had too. Dunlop was a Giant! A great name!

Dunlop kept the promise and Dunlop ceased bicycle tire manufacture and it caused waves in the market and some tense times followed makers got it together to take up the slack and now, it's all non British.

The John Bull tire and Rubber company survived, diversified and is a modern company making other things.

I wish I could go thru the places and find the old dies, moulds with the lettering and mascost and in the dead of night make tires again the old molds used again. Make the magic work again in limited numbers for our bikes.

For the British motorcycles, scooters, bubblecars, bicycles, lightweight bicycles, trade delivery butchers bikes, small childrens bikes

all white tires
white wall
blackwall

all the sizes

everything the Brown Brothers catalog ever showed us so long ago. Again I wish I could bring it all back

find the bits and pieces and drag the old fellows out of the old age homes and with a gleam in my eye say I need you to help me, do you remember how to work this jig?

We'll get caught! I'll loose my pension, thjey'll throw us in the pokey I'm too old I'm 88 years aged.

They laid me off! We lost our jobs. Yes. Yes. It's all here go get me this, turn this gauge, if you'll shut up! yes! let me think!
He still knows and it comes to shape.
But I tell you with total certainty as it bacame reality again as we carefully removed the new rubber out of the machines and took care not to burn our hands my old 88 year old British friend A.W.O.L. from the nursing home would stop and tears would well and he'd get quiet and the memories would come flooding back all the workmates and what they did after work and all the adventures and stories and we'd stand there holding up a work of art.
Yes, I remember these.

Your'e tyre, here let it cool you need a pair.
Where did you get that bike? but it cost you a lot of quid!
It's time to go! We'd sneak out before getting caught.

"I have to get back before they notice me missing. Hey you fool American, I... I had fun today!"

And all these people, before we loose them, I want to find them and interview them and ask a million questions all my dear friends on oldroads.com are not able to answer for me.

It's out there someplace I pray, those old molds the bits and pieces of the production shop. Coker tire here in the states preserved the old molds and one can order fresh tires for the old car but what became of the British tire molds? Bicycle tires?

No answer. It's too large a question. We don't have access to company property, to their old records. They would laugh at me. Sometimes they would get quiet and say really, we do not know. Come see what we do today.
Someplace out there are fellows who are still with us and they know. They were there.

When things changed and firms went under or were merged into Raleigh and phased out and buildings closed and tooling removed and it all was auctioned and the Whole magical, breathtaking wonderland that was British manufacturing closed down. Did andbody realize that it would survive and be loved forever, by generations to come, that collectors old and especially the young and young at heart would unearth, dig out and study and fall in love with, repair, regrease, rebuild and ride again and look throught all the old publications and breath life back into it again and hunt and travel for spare parts, for other machines, all the autojumbles and wait until the gate opened up with money saved up and wait for the 67 year old guy in the white truck and leaf thru those old yellowed pages and have it flow thru the heart again and not becase per se, you want to re- sell it and just make money but because you want to experience and ride and enjoy and be a part of something so totally wonderful and decent and clean and good and go enjoy it yourself they way it was enjoyed before you came onto the scene.

On the flip side, Nobody thought one day there would be such a resurgence and re- born interest in these and the miracle of the internet and E- bay. The web sites such as this one. For this reason people did stash and squirrel and store away stuff. But nobody envisoned the internet and the bicycle collector market No, we have what we have because a lot of people saw this for what it is. Something wonderful and magical and special and something to make a buck on one day, after I'm gone. So and so can dig it all out of the shed and take it to the jumble.

Where people from all over the planet write in and help with questions and that the battle to preserve it all would rage on on the internet and some, a remnanent of the old guard a small fraction of the Cyclists touring Club and Cycling magazine and the Vetrans cycle club and current and old shop owners, fans, devotees, riders and collectors would give their time to promote vintage cycling.

The few that I know of, that have gotten wealthy in this business will just grin and look at you. I ask questions people won't and cannot answer. Why create competition?and they are too busy finding more stuff,the next lead,to sit and write about what they find and see out there in the field .

They get the call, go in buy, and bring it home on the truck put it in the wharhouse tell everybody they don't have them never seen them but they do and in good time it'll be for sale on his site.
Crazy high prices and while we waver,it is sold to somebody else.
"ne day, when I am old after I strip England and France of it's vintage bicycle history and am wealthy then I'll tell you."

They may teach us a bit of history yes, they'll put it straight come up with a paragraph minus pictures and do a short potted history washed clean of detail, leads, and reduce it down to postage stamp size.

Want to discover the soul of this stuff?
Find the old magazines, books, posters, trade publications

the C.T.C. Gazette, Cycling magazine back issues, the Brown Brothers catalogs we can't get onto this web site or any others for possible good reasons like copyrights.

If it were up to me, and it is not I'd share it all with you. Break open the dam, unleash the river.

You'll learn and be able to pass it down here to others like we do here.
Share what you read, what you learn. Take the stage.

It took some doing to get Brooks England to reintroduce the line of cycle bags and tool rolls after 30 years of some things being out of production and I know the price is a bit high but they are worth owning and buying and fitting to your bicycle. Still beautiful!
Please go to the Brooks England site and order a Brooks cycle bag for your bike. They put their neck out for us and we should not let them down. Let us hope that we can see more things brought back like the Brooks bags were.

In closing about the original tyres these were unique, more real,than the stuff we have today.

As for myself, I see recently that I am not the only one who wantsto pull up with stone cutting equipment and cut away walls and remove the gates and lettering and decorative pieces of an old factory before the wrecking ball destroys history forever.Not to sell just to preserve because I love this stuff.
Actually it is becoming to be seen as art.

Art you find in private collections
Art that will cost you a boatload of money to own
Yes, it is art. We are collectors and curators and preservationsts of, art.

Now, we will see things preserved as never before. Removed before destruction before it's too late.
With proper tools and trucks and with a real crane and not with Grandpa's floor jack.

The funny thing to me is and it makes me kick myself for being too timid, too respectful and just plain scared too.

It's a gallery owner, a rich one that has hired the crew to
remove it and miracle of miracles is it's legal that they are on the property and at work.
by: 71.40.121.165

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/5/2010 at 4:19:19 AM
Steve... I think Chris like your tyres. ;-)

Meanwhile Chris, yes... of times things are gone long before it's known how much they're appreciated. As to the stonecutters... There's a story out of Asbury Park NJ... a place where I spent many a childhood hour in wonderous activity...

A building.... "The Palace Amusements"... which in spite of the efforts of the "Save Tillie!" coalition... was torn down. A place of dreams. If you Google "save tillie" you can find the back story... and the images of when they actually saved the artwork that was "Tille"...

An image that is preserved in my mind as clear as day. It's preserved in many other places... and minds... actually featured on a Bruce Springsteen album cover as I recall.

I digress....

Steve... I daresay... from Chris's ever so eloquent description... that your tyres were literally designe and manufactured to go through the war...

Military often used bicycles for travel.... I can visualize someone navigating a bike through a bombed out, rubble strewn city...

As Chris mentioned... pictures would be greatly appreciated. We're all hoping these tyres have withstood the sands of time as well as it sounds to me like they're something that I might only see in a museum.

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - In a way... they DID save Tillie....
by: 208.252.179.24

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by JDuck on 6/5/2010 at 7:55:17 AM
Steve, Chris, Larry, I'm sure glad that this sight doesn't limit the size of posts. This stuff IS magical.
by: 66.254.211.103

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Keith Body on 6/5/2010 at 1:42:22 PM
Hi All, As I am only 77 I can just remember War Grade. Most sizes were limited to one tread pattern, and were harder rubber, probably containing very little latex, which originated in the far east. After 65 years I would not expect much elasticity.
I would think the moulds would have been sent to Dunlop factories in other parts of the world.
The Dunlop tyres we had in the 1960's had a tread that was far too hard wearing. The side walls usually failed due to under inflation, and people used to get free replacements.
Dunlop tubular tyres were popular in the 1950's for a similar reason. We could send back 6 for repair, and get 4 new ones free, and perhaps a small charge for one repaired.

by: 92.8.15.27

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/5/2010 at 4:27:25 PM
Thanks gentlemen, I'll try and upload a photo later today, I'll also show the bike it's been attached to (and still is) for hundreds of years, perhaps you can tell me....what make it is !
p.s. Chris, could you be more specific ;-)
by: 93.96.36.127

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/6/2010 at 7:51:55 AM
Dunlop Tandem War Grade tyre (and tandem) photos uploaded.

Steve


by: 93.96.36.127


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/6/2010 at 7:57:34 AM
Unknown Wartime Tandem, if anyone has any ideas of manufacturer....I'd be only to pleased to hear them.
Many thanks,
Steve


by: 93.96.36.127


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/6/2010 at 8:00:51 AM
See Readers Rides (Steves collection) for more details.
by: 93.96.36.127

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Keith Body on 6/9/2010 at 12:35:37 PM
Steve, I think your tread pattern would be straight ribs in the centre.
Tandem make, the problem here is that Brampton made lugs for most makers, yours looks late 1930's. I would guess it has Brampton bearings. If you do try to ride it, remember it is almost impossible to stop down hill with 2 up. We used to get 40 - 50 mph on a slight down gradient.
by: 92.0.25.179

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/9/2010 at 3:25:45 PM
Hi Keith, 40 - 50mph on a slight down gradient does not surprise me in the least. I've hit some "hairy" speeds going downhill on loaded tradebikes, but these (pre 531 jobs) are weighty beasts....especially with two on board, and need to be handled with caution (even more so with just the two hub brakes).
I was thinking the one mentioned above might be a Armstrong Moth (what a fantastic name) as it has a letter "A" on the lamp holder !
Moth, Sun Wasp etc, this is all new to me. Someone will tell me there's a Dunelt Dragonfly next !

Oh, I have ridden it briefly (it's poorly), and yes....the tyre tread pattern is straight ribs in the centre.
Steve
by: 93.96.36.127

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/9/2010 at 4:36:13 PM
Sorry Keith, it doesn't have a letter "A" on the lamp holder, it's more like a letter "V".
Another prominent marking (not a serial number) that might have a very good reason to be there is :- T9SC
T9SC is stamped into both rear dropouts very clearly.

I suppose I really should put this question onto the tandem discussion board.
by: 93.96.36.127

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Keith Body on 6/10/2010 at 4:22:12 AM
Steve, the Williams cranks and chainwheels might have listed date marks, but could always be later than the frame.
by: 92.0.11.232

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/10/2010 at 10:57:09 AM
Thanks Keith, I'll bare that in mind. I'm now off to find out why this Trivelox doesn't want to play fairly !
by: 93.96.36.127

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by JS on 6/10/2010 at 4:40:23 PM
Best article on vintage bicycle tires in a long time, right here:

http://chikutakurinrin.cocolog-nifty.com/blog/2010/05/be-tires.html
by: 209.222.3.10

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by chris on 6/10/2010 at 6:36:53 PM
thanks looking forward to seeing it
by: 69.153.86.42

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   War Grade tyre. posted by Steve on 6/11/2010 at 2:59:58 AM
I have to confess that I have never come across any manufacturers image moulded into the actual tyre tread itself.
I've obviously seen many different images on tyre walls....some modern day tyres have very little (or no) brand images at all on the tyre, just a series of code numbers !
An interesting article, thanks.
Steve
by: 93.96.36.127




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules ladies looped roadster steering bearing issues posted by: Robyn on 6/3/2010 at 1:26:23 PM
Hi,
I bought a 1929 ish Hercules ladies looped roadster frame and forks. When i got it there was only one race on the forks, one in th eupper part of the frame and the knurled race holding it all together.
I have taken a race set off a 1940's Hercules, but it doesnt fit as the the lower race that goes in the frame and on the fork are too thick.
They are about 7mm thick and in order to fit correctly so the bearings are protected by the head's collar, they need to be about 3mm thick.
I have some photos of my bike to give you an idea of what it is.
Maybe somoene with th esame model could show me what the correct bearings should be and where i could get some.
Please note i know that bearings with a chrome collar are not corect for this model.

Also im looking for a new crankshaft and possibly the cups.


by: 92.235.100.103


  Replies:
           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules ladies looped roadster steering bearing issues posted by Keith Body on 6/4/2010 at 1:34:29 PM
Robyn, Standard UK bikes normally had head bearings where the loose race that goes in the top head lug was the same as the one that goes in the bottom head lug. Ball bearing size was 1/8 inches, so 3mm should do.
Has the bottom head lug stretched?
by: 92.11.9.112




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FOR SALE:   Interest posted by: Christian Westberg on 6/2/2010 at 1:44:09 PM
Occasionally I happen to get hold on a rare vintage Raleigh DL-1 with rod levers and drum brakes.
Any interest in me shipping such a beauty abroad at a price range 1000 - 1500 USD + shipping, depending on year and condition?
Kind regards
Christian Westberg
Copenhagen
Denmark
by: 87.60.171.220

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           RE:FOR SALE:   Interest posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/4/2010 at 5:46:38 AM
Sounds nice but seems rather cost prohibitive... especially considering shipping across the Atlantic.

We do have DL-1's here... don't know about the Drum brakes... which would be quite nice actually.... that and full chaincases are rather scarce.

I wouldn't presume to tell you not to offer them for sure... it's just a bit expensive for me personally.

Thanks for making the opportunity available for certain!

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone
by: 167.9.1.11

           RE:FOR SALE:   Interest posted by Kevin on 6/6/2010 at 1:31:20 AM
Not many takers at that price. I have had four of them, and I paid $50, $50, $100 and $75. Shipping a bicycle that far would be expensive, and damage would be very likely.
by: 98.226.154.146

           RE:FOR SALE:   Interest posted by Andy on 6/14/2010 at 12:56:04 PM
I see them come up occasionally, though the full chaincase is rare as most were sold with hockey sticks in the US. $400 would be the highest price I could imagine, unless it was like a 1939 N.O.S. still in the crate or something like that...
by: 206.80.8.130

           RE:FOR SALE:   Interest posted by Christian Westberg on 6/15/2010 at 2:39:17 AM
Dear Andy

Do the ones you come across come with both rod lever and drum brakes ?

Best regards
Christian Westberg
by: 87.60.171.220




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Very cool SPRITE posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/2/2010 at 2:55:15 AM
Ebay item: 320538821390

5-speed train-wreck gears... with 26 x 1 3/8 tyres and safety nose mudguard.

Looks to be in excellent condition too.

I like it.

No... I have utterly NO ROOM in the corral at the moment.

Later!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - That Sprite is all right!
by: 208.252.179.26

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           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Very cool SPRITE posted by Thom J. on 6/4/2010 at 9:21:22 AM
Nice one. I'd much prefer a S/A S5 type IGH rather than the derailleur drive train. But that's just my preference.
Thom "last name like an eye-chart" Jakowczyk.
by: 63.204.42.231

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Very cool SPRITE posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/5/2010 at 4:07:08 AM
Agreed Thom... thing is... I thought the 26" wheeled Sprites were all IgH (I like that acronym!)... so whilst not my preference for this machine, to me it seems a bit unusual.

Whilst I do prefer the IGH... I'm not totally averse to derailleur gears... my "Lite Sprite" was equipped thusly as a 5-speed... and currently sports a 6-speed gearset.

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - It's still a Sprite
by: 208.252.179.24




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Vintage Bikes of Hong Kong posted by: JS on 6/1/2010 at 11:22:58 PM
Guys-

For all you Brit bike fans...particularly Hercules fans...you may want to check out the post I just made.

http://www.flyingpigeonproject.org/2010/05/hong-kong-vintage-cycle-club.html

-JS
by: 193.23.43.5

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AGE / VALUE:   Hot air ballooning over the white cliffs of Dover posted by: Chris on 6/1/2010 at 5:24:42 PM
I heard an interesting piece on the news about a fellow who went hot air ballooning only it was many little balloons ties together he described sailing over the White cliffs of Dover and landing in a lettuce patch paid 100 euros for the damage to the farmers field. Sounded magical and wonderful
by: 71.40.121.165

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hot air ballooning over the white cliffs of Dover posted by David on 6/1/2010 at 6:59:36 PM
Read George Plympton's article from the New Yorker (years ago) about a guy who did that out west somewhere in a lawn chair with weather balloons and a BB gun to pop them in order to land!
by: 216.15.114.27




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AGE / VALUE:   unleash the faieries posted by: Chris on 6/1/2010 at 8:19:52 AM
She would not stop, barely slowed down so, I shout out I want to buy your bicycle! How much? she asks I say "let me see it!" "I'm here every day come back and see me!"
So far, she has not.

Next time this happens I'll unleash the faeries to give her a business card, maybe, take the bike from her, make her turn around and sell me the bike. I dunno, assist me. She just kept on riding . This wolf only wants the bike!

She didn't believe that, perhaps. I was too hot and tired to run down a Raleigh Superbe piloted by a young women in a hurry. The fairies can live in my top hat and be called when needed.
by: 71.40.121.165

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   unleash the faieries posted by Chris on 6/1/2010 at 8:28:06 AM
This was the first Raleigh Sports in 3 years like seeing a mirage the bike! not the gal.
by: 71.40.121.165

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   unleash the faieries posted by Chris on 6/1/2010 at 8:35:50 AM
In this part of town they'd be rough, with piercings and tattoos everybody here has tattoos the kind of fairies you don't mess with we'd get into a disagreement about payment and they'd turn on me and beat me up. With foul mouths and snobby attitudes! They'd be collecting motorcycles and would not care for the English bikes. San Antonio fairies not the kind I want to dance with or employ to find vintage bikes. They fly up and start cussing me out: "You gonna pay me so much for bringing you this thing yeah !" they'd gang up on me! Not the Sweet English fairies with that neat Brit accent.

I have ideas for the next oldroads.com T- shirt!
by: 71.40.121.165




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1973 Rudge Sports posted by: Ted on 6/1/2010 at 6:11:10 AM
I have a rough old Rudge Sports from 1973 that I paid 5 bucks for. Frame remains solid, but there's lots of chrome rust/grease and clunking bottom bracket needs overhaul, but SA AW 3-speed works good and there are lots of original parts. Brakes also work but cables need replacing. Bike still has generator hub and all components, but not sure if they work. Would I be better off breaking it down and parting it out, selling whole, or just dumping it?
by: 65.115.233.125

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           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1973 Rudge Sports posted by David on 6/1/2010 at 6:56:54 PM
Are you trying to make a profit or would you like to keep it and ride it? If it's really rough (bad fenders, e.g.) it's probably most useful as a parts bike, though none of the parts are exactly rare.
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1973 Rudge Sports posted by ted on 6/2/2010 at 6:45:23 AM
Not sure I can do overhaul on bottom bracket due to cottered cranks. I don't want to put a ton of work into it because I'm not sure it'll be worth the effort.

by: 65.115.233.102

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1973 Rudge Sports posted by Ted on 6/14/2010 at 12:27:42 PM
any idea where i can get a chain guard that would fit this bike, or, more importantly, the clamps that connect the chain guard to the frame?
by: 65.115.233.125




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by: Law on 5/30/2010 at 8:22:56 AM
All,

I've run into a problem and was woudering if anyone can shed somw light and guidance.

I had to get a new chain for the Raleigh because the old one broke a link. I have the wheel on the frame. the chain in one hand and the cable in the other.How do I put them all together? If you put the chain in the wheel, you can,t srew the cable onto it. If you put the chain on the cable first, then you can't screw the chain into the wheel.

I'm scratching my head on this one, what steps do I take besides backward while someone can shed some light.

Thanks in advance, Law
by: 71.71.4.177

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           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by Keith Body on 5/30/2010 at 2:33:15 PM
Hi Law, Is this the gear control indicator in a SA AW 3 speed? The threaded piece on the end of the cable is supposed to turn on the cable, try it before connecting. The AW indicator screws into a theaded pin in the middle of the hub, (don't try to over tighten it), and your cable end screws on. You should be able to see the adjustment indicator.
If the threaded cable end won't turn on the cable give it a few turns in the opposite direction, a bit of trial and error.
by: 92.6.197.207

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by Law on 5/30/2010 at 5:28:05 PM
Keith,

Yes, this is a SA AW 3 speed hub year 68. The indicator chain has a male threaded section that goes into a threaded hollow tube attached to the shifting cable. The cable tube does not turn. Is it stuck or do I have a different set up and require anything else. When I got it, it did not have this extra piece and it was together.

Thanks again for any input. Law
by: 71.71.4.177

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by Law on 5/30/2010 at 5:28:37 PM
Keith,

Yes, this is a SA AW 3 speed hub year 68. The indicator chain has a male threaded section that goes into a threaded hollow tube attached to the shifting cable. The cable tube does not turn. Is it stuck or do I have a different set up and require anything else. When I got it, it did not have this extra piece and it was together.

Thanks again for any input. Law
by: 71.71.4.177

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by David on 5/30/2010 at 6:26:28 PM
I'm not sure what the "extra piece" is. As Keith said, the indicator chain has two threaded rods attached to it. One has a very short threaded section and goes in the axle and screws into the "axle key" deep inside the hub. Screw that in until it stops but do not tighten it. The chain will hang loosely out of the axle and the other end has a long threaded rod. When you install the wheel in the frame, turn the indicator chain to the left until it points toward the shift cable, don't tighten it do that. Now the little adjusting tube on the end of the shift cable should be threaded onto the indicator chain assembly. If the tube doesn't rotate freely on the end of the cable, there is some problem. Try squirting a little WD40 in there and see if you can slide the tube up and down the cable. Loosen it up. The cable should not twist in order to connect it to the indicator and adjust the shifter. Good luck.
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by Law on 5/30/2010 at 7:17:17 PM
David, Thanks for info. My problem is that the threaded tube does not rotate on the shift cable. I will soak with some 3-in-1 and see if I can get it to work.

Law
by: 71.71.4.177

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   cable to chain? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 5/31/2010 at 4:06:03 AM
Hmmm, yeah, that barrel on the cable should turn freely. Could be stuck as you mentioned. Suggest something like PB Blaster if the 3 in 1 does not free it up.

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - over a barrel? I hope not!
by: 208.252.179.24




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union "Made in England" posted by: Justin on 5/29/2010 at 9:38:30 AM
Hello, I have been looking for info on a bike I bought at a market. Lots of conflicting info is all I found. It is a Royce Union 3 speed (Sturmy Archer,England), black, head lamp (powered by back tire). The badge on the front says "Union Cycle Company, LTD/Royce Union/Made in England." On the cross bar it has another "Made in England" sticker. Look alot like the other Royce Union bike I,ve seen pics of. Everyone says thay are not made in England, but Japan or Holland.

What's the deal? I am no vintage bike expert, I ride a 2008 Cannondale Synapse 6. Bought this to commute 4 blocks to work.

Thanks for helping,
Justin
by: 98.235.135.183

  Replies:
           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Matthew on 5/29/2010 at 10:36:41 AM
Royce Union marketed bikes that were from everywhere. Japan, Holland, England and Germany...maybe Italy?

Date it by using the date code on the rear hub.

Not high end in the quality stakes but that's no reason not to love it.

Matthew - ride what you have and care for it
by: 82.26.202.151

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Justin on 5/29/2010 at 11:32:25 AM
Thanks for the clarification. Where would I go with the code to get the date. He said 1959 but I'd like to verify. I paid $25, its in good shape, needs cleaned though, good or bad deal?

Justin
by: 174.59.44.186

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Matthew on 5/30/2010 at 1:14:00 AM
£17.29 for a rideable bike is pretty good whatever the brand.

Look on the rear hub for figures such as 9 59 that would give you a date of September 1959.

Matthew - bargains are out there.
by: 86.29.229.34

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Jeff Bikeguy on 5/30/2010 at 7:39:45 AM
Probably Raleigh-built.

Where are you located? I passed up a nice one yesterday at my local market. Looked to be late 50's too.
by: 71.173.184.95

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Justin on 6/3/2010 at 5:11:47 AM
Lancaster, PA, Thanks again for all the info.
by: 170.122.200.57

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Jeff Bikeguy on 6/3/2010 at 11:24:21 AM
It was probably the same bike I saw. It was at Saturday's Market in Middletown. Black, nice paint, fancy gold graphics, bottle generator light. I couldn't read the date on the rear hub. It looked like it would really clean up nicely!
by: 64.65.219.134

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by robert ahtye on 8/4/2010 at 9:28:01 PM
It was in 1958 or 59 I was in fifth grade saved up my paper route money and bought a Royce Union bicycle from a store a three speed I spent a fortune for it back then I think it went for forty dollars when it cost more for goods all made in America not China. It was my dream bike and drove itall over the neighborhood even crashed it while racing my neighbor hit a wall bent up the frame but it still worked. I sold it to another neighborhood acquaintance back in the days when the Chinese in China were all Communist enemies of America. When I was ten years old those were very good years and no I'm not Frank Sinatra singing.
















by: 71.135.57.138

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by ricky on 6/20/2011 at 4:19:36 PM
Hey I have a royce union I bought for ten dollors at a yard sale its a girls bike and the rear hub has the numbers 61 12 on it I can't tell what year that means? Any help?
by: 174.252.193.210

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Royce Union posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/21/2011 at 2:38:22 AM
Nice! That would be indicative of having been manufactured the 12th month of the year 1961. So.... FIFTY years of age.

Poke around on this site and you'll learn BOATLOADS of stuff about properly caring for and operating one of these classic machines.

NICELY DONE!

Larry "Boneman" Bone
Dingmans Ferry, PA, USA
by: 24.102.170.149




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by: Law on 5/28/2010 at 8:03:48 PM
All,

So I was lookin' on Craigslist when I came across a nice blue ladies Raleigh that I thought would get me some good pickin' parts. The price was right, 35 dollars. I call and it's mine. His words " did you know this thing is made in England?" Nice guy tho' didn't know much about what he bought at the flea market. I get it home and the wife lays instant claim to it. It looked good from the get go but once some simple wipe and clean was put to it, it went WOW. No more chance of getting anything off of it. It was made in 75 Feb and was owned by a couple who kept it in their Airstream when they went around the country. Sold it when they stoped riding. The tires are original equipment Dunlop and still look presentable and hold air great I have one question for the crowd, I heard that production in the Nottingham factory stopped mid 70's. Can someone tell me when exactly?

Thanks, D#$@,why couldn't it have been a mens bike!

Law
by: 71.71.4.177

  Replies:
           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 5/30/2010 at 4:10:45 AM
Nicely done for the lady. As it were, seems every machine I find... especially the odd pair here and there, the ladies is always in better shape.

Meanwhile, if memory serves, Raleigh was up and running well into the 80's. 1984 comes to mind for some reason but that's nebulous. I'm sure others will have a more precise date. I have a couple of machines from the 70's... all made in Nottingham, so for sure, you've the genuine article.

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - Better to be commandeered than dismantled.
by: 208.252.179.21

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by Law on 5/30/2010 at 5:05:23 PM
" Boneman ",

You are so right there, For the multitude of reasons I'm sure. I was told that this bike was part of a pair with the mens bike snaped up first even tho it was in sad shape. But no takers for the blue lady. Their loss.

It still doesn't help me in the parts dept. I still need a mens back brake and lever with cable. It would be great to have some extra parts as well.

I'm not remembering exactly, but I thought that Raleigh's were made in other factories like carlton ? starting in the mid 70's. I'm glad this one is a Nott' case

Thanks, Law


by: 71.71.4.177

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 5/31/2010 at 4:09:51 AM
What type of brake ... sorry, waxed nebulous on the "subject" machine... but if the brakes from the ladies would work, I have a spare set of calipers that I had removed from my Sprite that should work as well.

Cheers!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - it's good to be able to stop.

by: 208.252.179.24

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by Law on 5/31/2010 at 5:54:45 PM
"Boneman",

I thank you for the offer, I would be interested if they are men's brake calipher and lever from a bike of that age ( around 68 ) The PO had put a cheap set of caliphers from a womans bike (japanese make). Let me know.

As for the barrel on the cable, I am soaking it in 3-in-1 and shooting it with BB blaster. So far, nothing is moving. Might be time for a new one. Where? Harris?

Man, If I didn't have my old Sears 3 speed to ride, I'd be goin' crazy. Not to mention, I couldn't be commuting to work. I really want to get my Raleigh bike back to roadtime duty.

Law
by: 71.71.4.177

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 6/1/2010 at 2:46:14 AM
Mens calipers for sure. Raleigh. Chromed steel. Let me look and see.. I may have two levers from a 1962 Colt donor bike that would be suitable as well.

If you're interested, email me a UPS friendly ship-to address and we'll cobble the whole thing together.

Later!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - parts is parts.... providing they're the RIGHT parts.
by: 208.252.179.21

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh for the Lady posted by Law on 6/2/2010 at 4:04:59 PM
Larry,

If the deal I am trying to wrangle falls through, I will go for some of your stash, Thanks.

I can't seem to email through the discussion board here, my email is not lotus notes anymore. If you want to PM me
lminer@pinehallbrick.com will do the job. I'm sure the shifting cable is fused to the barrel. Time for a new one.

Law
by: 71.71.4.177




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WANTED:   Rear derailleur etc. posted by: Thom J. on 5/28/2010 at 10:28:38 AM
So I'm thinking again about adding a rear derailleur to the Raleigh Trent Sports in an effort to expand the high and low gear range of the FW hub. Currently I'm using a 20T cog in the rear and it works great. I'd like a little more top gear in the 90" range and a low gear in the area of 30". With two cogs and a RD I should be able to do this. SSSssssooooo...I'm seeking to purchase a RD of appropriate vintage (late 50's to mid 60's) and single lever clamp-on shifter. If any of you folks have these items in your parts box, please do drop me a line. Thx in advance, Thom.
by: 63.204.42.231

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AGE / VALUE:   Very cool Raleigh lightweight! posted by: Jeff Bikeguy on 5/27/2010 at 6:00:33 PM
I'm not into lightweight bikes but this thing is neat!!!!

http://cgi.ebay.com/1934-Raleigh-Record-Ace-RRA-20-Rare-Vintage-Bicycle_W0QQitemZ270567066419QQcategoryZ0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4012.m506QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DNGRI%26its%3DI%26itu%3DUA%26otn%3D20%26pmod%3D330432682106%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D8230715333122697109

Too bad it's on the other side of the pond. It's the kind of thing I would love to see in person.
by: 71.173.172.165

  Replies:
           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Very cool Raleigh lightweight! posted by Matthew on 5/28/2010 at 12:44:03 PM
Oh, but it isn't the other side of the pond; you are!

It's way out of my league, the folks on the lightweight DB would like to see this one.

Matthew - hear the Raleighing cry!
by: 86.29.115.161

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Very cool Raleigh lightweight! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 5/30/2010 at 4:13:40 AM
U got that right Matthew.... out of my league as well... but a very VERY nice machine.

As to the Raleighing Cry... that's right folks.... in the "Kings English" they prounounce it "Rally". :-)

Later!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - Tweed ride? It's really knind of a a Raleigh rally.
by: 208.252.179.21




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AGE / VALUE:   The Memory of Running posted by: Chris on 5/26/2010 at 6:35:44 PM
It was $1.87 used, at the thrift store and it's a harcover. time to buy it has arrived.

Some books you order and pay a lot for full price two copies one to keep in plastic the other to read.

Some you wait until you find it in the thrift store.

He loses his mom and dad and then, when the phone rings telling him his missing , troubled sister has been identified by her dental records he brings down the old Raleigh bike off the hooks and rides some distance to go claim the body.

When I finish the book I will write a proper report of what I think.

So far I've hit a couple of wheel mangling, pot holes so to speak, but I will get it down like bad medicine and be able to really comment.
by: 71.40.121.165

  Replies:
           RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Memory of Running posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 5/27/2010 at 5:44:35 AM
Books... all books... are in a way a treasure. A way for one mind to communicate to another. Yes... some books are "collectible"... but they all represent to me very considerable effort on the part of the writer. A certain dedication.

I don't think there are bad books.... just books that I don't care for. Additionally... the "pot holes"... well, sometimes that can give you the appropriate contrast and enable one to better appreciate the pinnacles.

Sounds like an intersting tome nonetheless. Enjoy and do apprise us as to the overall read!

Later!

Larry "Boneman" Bone - Books.... Paper, binding, cover, etc. NOT "glowing digital image of words".... no... they just are not.
by: 167.9.1.11

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   The Memory of Running posted by Kevin on 5/27/2010 at 11:32:48 AM
I agree, Boneman. Someone said that a book allows the writer to live a "life beyond life." It sort of takes my breath away, sometimes, to think about how an author, dead for 200 years, can still make a modern reader laugh, smile or weep. In a sense, then, he lives. Language, alphabets and printing are among the greatest of all miracles.
by: 72.12.200.38




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MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by: Roderic D. Schmidt on 5/25/2010 at 9:25:36 PM
Greetings All!
So I've begun work on getting the '62 Rudge Sports I got ahold of into running condition, and noticed tonight that the BB oil port is gone, leaving just an open threaded hole. Does anyone know if the plastic oil port cover available for SA rear hubs will fit the aperture? As an alternative, what screw would fit the aperture to keep grit out?

Thanks
Roderic
by: 98.116.32.78

  Replies:
           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Chris on 5/26/2010 at 8:58:35 AM
this is a Keith Body question! Keith can you tell him?
by: 71.40.121.165

           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Keith Body on 5/26/2010 at 12:17:23 PM
If the original oiler was a sprung ball bearing type then it's probably a press fit, but many oilers had a 2BA thread which is almost 3/16 inch. If there is a thread in the hole you could close it, but I doubt if anything harmful will get in. The oil very rarely reached the bearings unless really over-oiled, then it would leak out. If there is no liner in the bottom bracket (we used to fit a bit of cardboard) then grit and dirt falls down the tubes and the oil will mix with it, and could reach the bearings.
On the theory that some lubrication is better than none we used to run a little oil into the bottom bracket by leaning the bike and running it down the axle and into the bracket cups. Aso the same for pedal bearings next to the crank. Bear in mind we were trying to make utility bikes a bit better without any cost to the owners. These were probably ridden 1 or 2 days a week in the rain, without any maintenance, and only occasional tyre inflation.
Not much help really Chris.

by: 92.19.17.200

           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Roderic D. Schmidt on 5/26/2010 at 12:58:48 PM
Thanks Chris and Keith
I'm going to be riding this one a bit once I fix it up, so I'll monkey around with plugging the hole when cleaning and lubing the BB. I'll post what I find out, hopefully early next week.

Roderic
by: 207.246.218.205

           RE:RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Chris on 5/26/2010 at 6:22:15 PM
Keith, you knew the thread pitch without my having to "divine" it out of the Brown Brothers book.
Does the oiler the metal flip type oiler from a 1950's sturmey archer 3 speed hub does that oiler fit the bottom bracket as well or were those different i think they are not quite to same. One can try to see if it will fit or not.


by: 71.40.121.165

           RE:RE:RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Chris on 5/26/2010 at 6:23:35 PM
I have seen different types, styles, versions between different makes of bikes over the years
by: 71.40.121.165

           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by David on 5/27/2010 at 9:09:41 AM
Not correct, but a plastic SA hub oiler lid might do just fine. Threading wouldn't matter much. But you'll be best off to grease the BB and just be sure to close the oil port to keep out crud.
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Kevin on 5/27/2010 at 11:34:58 AM
You could also just plug the hole with grease ... or a whittled-down golf tee.

by: 72.12.200.38

           RE:MISC: raleigh oil port compatibility posted by mark on 5/28/2010 at 1:55:49 AM
if you did line the bb--say w/ cardboard or plastic from milkjug-- is it the whole bb or is just the middle part btw/ the cups ok? noticed w/ my philips the tubes open directly to bb 58 raleigh just skinniny openings near cups?
by: 166.70.39.73

           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Keith Body on 5/28/2010 at 2:24:55 AM
Mark, In the 1950's we had an alkaline battery with a tubular cardboard case just the right size, but length trimmed to just over 1 1/2 inches. These do not exist now. Just between the bracket cups.
by: 92.18.67.148

           RE:MISC:   raleigh oil port compatibility posted by Roderic D. Schmidt on 4/29/2011 at 1:58:22 PM
Greetings all
So I've tried both the metal and plastic oiler caps from SA hubs, and neither fir the BB oiler port. No brass screws of a large enough size were carried by my local hardware store, so I ended up intering a plastic liner into the bb, and using metal putty to fill the aperture. I figured I'd never be using it for oil anyhow. I smoothed out the puitty, and painted over it with some rustoleum black semi-gloss, and now it looks really good in dim light to people with bad vision!

Thanks!
Roderic
by: 207.246.218.205

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