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AGE / VALUE:   Disassembling roller-lever brake handles posted by: Zach on 2/16/2010 at 10:02:57 AM
I am trying to swap the position of the uppermost "vertical" brake rods on my '62 Superbe Roadster. It appears that a previous owner swapped their position in order to configure them the American way - right brake handle to the rear wheel and left to the front. Thus, rather than the universal joints being "stacked" and the uppermost brake rods close to parallel, the u-joints are on the outside of the rods, and the rods are substantially flexed outwards. I am loosening the inward-facing nuts neat the center of the handlebars that secure the brake handles in place, but am finding that they bottom out against one another before they clear the threaded handle ends. The handles appear not to travel more freely laterally as I loosen those nuts, and the springs that grab those crescent-shaped levers, forcing the handles to return to the ready position, don't want to "unclip" before the nuts are removed. How do I create enough clearance between the threaded ends of the brake handles in order to remove the nuts? To be clear - I just need to get the linkages to slide off the ends of the handles in order to exchange their positions.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Disassembling roller-lever brake handles posted by Zach on 2/16/2010 at 11:45:29 AM
Never mind. A very simple procedure made complicated by anxiety and a fear of rubber mallets. The handle did have enough lateral travel once the crescent-shaped piece was encouraged to be free of the square section it sits on.

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AGE / VALUE:   Hub/ Bearing Cups Update...New issue posted by: JS on 2/14/2010 at 2:49:06 AM
You may recall I posted on a number of hubs that I sent out to be chromed. The bearing cups were removed in order to facilitate cleaning. The question was how to get them back in without using a torch and thereby ruining the new Chrome.

-Putting the hubs in the oven and the cups in the freezer DOES NOT work.

- Drawing the cups into place with a bolt on an old axle works. Even if it does require a fair amount of elbow grease.

Thanks for that suggestion.

Now for the next problem: All of the hubs were drum brake hubs. As you may know from the SA drum brake layout, there is a brake backing plate. There are three holes through this plate: 1 large one for the axle, One smal hole for the Brake pivot and one medium sized hole where the brake arm attaches. This hole has a sleeve that runs through it.

Problem is, this sleeve (for 3 out of 5 brakes!) has gone missing at the chromer, possibly dissolved in the acid. I checked the SA exploded parts diagram, and this part, while pictured, does not have a number. Usually it is inseperable from the brake backing plate, but on several of my brakes it could be removed.

Does anyone know whatI am talking about?
Does anyone have this part?
Does anyone know if it is a common hardware part, like a simple bush?

Suggestions welcome.

Thanks in advance,

JS- "Sleeveless in Beijing"


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hub/ Bearing Cups Update...New issue posted by David on 2/14/2010 at 10:07:39 AM
On my single disassembled AB hub, this bushing is magnetic. It's hard to imagine an acid bath would destroy a steel bushing and not the rest of the steel part. I think they must have been loose and your chromer removed them (reasonable) and then lost 'em.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hub/ Bearing Cups Update...New issue posted by JS on 2/14/2010 at 3:59:24 PM
Thanks David.

Glad you understand what I am talking about. Does anyone know if this part is available?

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AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by: Erik on 2/14/2010 at 2:05:17 AM
This may seem to be a dumb question seeing how long these things have been in existence but, how tough are steel westwood rims compared to more modern rims? They don't look all that substantial. Thoughts or abuse of westwood rims stories appreciated.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by JS on 2/14/2010 at 2:48:27 AM
STEEL rims of any sort are going to be much stronger (but heavier) than modern Aluminum Rims.

Westwood rims, in my experience, are virtually indestructible. They are used all over the developing world for work bikes and carry incredible loads over horrible roads. During my time in China, I have yet to see one scrapped because it was bent.



           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Matthew on 2/14/2010 at 10:02:29 AM
Modern alloy rims are double skinned the spokes attach through the obvious rim (the one you can see from the outside) and the inner rim has holes bored through it to allow the spoke nipples to pass through. They are incredibly strong, see riders like Dan Macaskill and what they expect of their wheels to see how strong rims are.

However as JS points out Westwood rims are very strong too. By comparison they are much heavier than alloy rims for a given strength.

Matthew - getting around to it.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Steve on 2/14/2010 at 10:03:10 AM
I have many Westwood steel rims here, but only one is "holed", and that's because it sat parked upright unmoved in a garden for at least twenty years, the remainder (exposed part) of the rim is fine....although a little tired.
I'm still on the look-out for a 16 x 1 3/4 Westwood (or Westrick or similar metric equivalent) rim for a 1940/50's tradebike to take a tyre size of 16 x 2.00 (54-305) etc.
I'd love it to be steel, but would be glad of anything !

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Erik on 2/14/2010 at 11:17:54 AM
To all who responded, thank you. I figured stronger but heavier to be the case. The only experience I have had giving a steel rim any kind of abuse was when I was a kid trying like the dickens to ramp my 20" bike over the creek. I have no idead what kind of rim it was other than steel but, I never remember it going out of true. Which was remarkable coonsidering the abuse it incured.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by David on 2/15/2010 at 7:09:08 AM
Unless your 20" bike had caliper brakes, out-of-true wheels would probably have been unnoticed unless you managed to inflict a severe flat spot. 36 spokes on such a small steel wheel would have been really strong.

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Chris on 2/15/2010 at 5:27:39 PM
My god are they strong? carried J. H. Rosdail around the world all 50 states and around the world. Loaded up these carry everything pigs to market the kids to school used in pedicabs and pedicab busses laced right and kept with tight spokes these will outlast us all Use rim washers and these are hard to find rim washers were original equipment until some cost cutting idiot phased them out. keep em true and use rim washers but we have never heard of westwood rims failing these were too good todays wheels are not as strong.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Erik on 2/16/2010 at 12:44:26 AM
Excellent! Then I won't worry about "upgrading" to alloy rims for a bike that will be used in place of my car. What is the best way to prevent rust? I know how to remove rust but don't know of a good way to prevent it. I was thinking wax? Oh and the bike has a coaster brake so no need to worry about wax or other substances interfering with rod actuated brakes. Ideas, suggestions, experience?

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by JS on 2/16/2010 at 5:10:24 PM
Sure. Why not? If they are never going to feel a brake pad, go ahead and wax them. If you are using brakes pads however, I would not expect the wax to last.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Erik on 2/16/2010 at 11:28:59 PM
Boeshield t-9 got good reviews, claims it does not attract dust the way some other rust inhibitors do.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by chris on 2/18/2010 at 5:36:26 PM
Do not wax rims, it interferes with braking, keep them clean

           RE:AGE / VALUE:���Strength of westwood rims? posted by Erik on 2/18/2010 at 6:06:47 PM
Chris, it has a coaster brake.

           RE:AGE / VALUE: Strength of westwood rims? posted by Al on 2/19/2010 at 9:07:10 AM
My favorite is Simichrome. Metal polish that comes in a small tube or a big tub. Polishes without scratching. Leaves a nice coating. I've polished bikes that the owners then rode in the rain for a year, no rust.

Use it on the rear rim. But what brake is on the front? Not much you can do there.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Erik on 2/20/2010 at 1:29:22 AM
No worries, no front brake :) unless of course I add a hub brake to it, still, no worries.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Jorge on 2/24/2010 at 5:42:14 PM
Steve, Rigida has classic looking 305mm rims, same style in other sizes maybe for front too!
They also got Westwoods is steel, alloy and Westrics in Stainless steel in every size imaginable, excet 305s
@ → http://www.rigida.com/en/products/single-wall-rims/rims-18/as26wi

I hit a car door that got in front of me with my 28in Pashley, bent the door but nothing hapenned to the rim, hub brake got shot a little later though, i believe rims are very strong, Rigida makes Westwoods in alloy too, sounds interesting!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strength of westwood rims? posted by Dale on 2/26/2010 at 7:23:12 AM
Most of the strength comes from the assembly of the wheel. Strength does vary from rim to rim, though. A stronger rim will buy you more resistance to small localized bending when you hit things.

           Why the U.S lost the Vietnam war/ westwood rims Torrington spokes posted by chris on 3/2/2010 at 7:06:40 PM
We lost the Vietnam war because of these rims and Torrington spokes

Load the bike up with 300 pounds of supplies and have women push the bikes along the trails and keep the supply lines open

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Thanks! posted by: SpfldKen on 2/13/2010 at 4:03:20 PM
Thanks-What a great week of discussion.


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AGE / VALUE:   great Raleigh article posted by: Mark on 2/12/2010 at 11:26:49 AM
thought you all would enjoy this great Daily Mail article on a long-lived Raleigh and its proud owner


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   great Raleigh article posted by Chas on 2/12/2010 at 1:13:06 PM
"I replaced a blown tyre on it just last week and it cost me more to replace it than I originally paid for the bike almost 60 years ago."

That's inflation for you..


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   great Raleigh article posted by Matthew on 2/12/2010 at 2:40:14 PM
What a great report. Thanks Mark.

Matthew - read, black and white all over

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AGE / VALUE:   Here's something in California posted by: Zach on 2/11/2010 at 9:28:06 PM
A Phillips club bike, 1939. He sent me pics even though I told him I was not interested in mortgaging my house in order to acquire his bicycle. It is pretty though.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Here's something in California posted by Andrew on 2/14/2010 at 10:57:17 PM
Hello Zach - Can you Share the pix? I'd be interested to see them.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Here's something in California posted by Zach on 2/17/2010 at 10:52:41 AM
Here's a page with pics of that bike.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Here's something in California posted by Andrew on 2/17/2010 at 6:50:21 PM
Thanks Zach, that is so nice! I'm glad it' far far away from me....eases the temptation a bit!

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AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Renown posted by: Andrew on 2/11/2010 at 12:49:25 PM
I recently obtained a Hercules 3speed, badge reads RENOWN mfg. is Hercules Cycle and motor works, Birmingham, the logo is a flying bird. The bikes geometry is rather slack like that of a Roadster. There are flip top caps on the oil ports on the hubs and the left side of the bottom bracket. The serial # is 859 5 The tires are 26" Dunlop and read "inflate hard" It appears to have been striped on all the tubes and forks with the box pattern found on the 30's vintage bikes. There are no brazes of pumps or chainguard. Anyone info would be great. Sorry my camera is out for service, i'll post a pick as soon as I can.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Renown posted by Andrew on 2/11/2010 at 9:13:40 PM
Did some cleaning tonight Fork ends are pinched and slotted, the droputs appear forged, maybe very cleanly brazed? The hub is a Hercules type A 3 speed and the rims are Dunlop SA3 26". There are oval cut outs on all the lugs and the BB is formed not forged. Any info would be helpful. Hope to have pix posted in a few days.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Renown posted by Andrew on 2/12/2010 at 6:47:57 PM
Hercules Renown


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Renown posted by Andrew on 2/12/2010 at 6:52:28 PM
Renown Headbadge


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Renown posted by Andrew on 2/12/2010 at 6:54:49 PM
Added a saddle, flipped the bars(for fun) and went for a ride, smooth and tracks well!


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AGE / VALUE:   Crewmates abord the Flying Dutchman posted by: Chris on 2/10/2010 at 2:54:17 PM
I tried to ring up a shop I used to haunt and talk to the owner and I had forgotten his number. Information found no such place. Appears he's gone out of business, again.

It's like my shipmates are abord the crazy flying dutchman, were all celebrating this last great treasure haul with food and drink and one minute he's next to me and the next he's gone.

Shops are gone, the street changed the signs down and re- done it's re- developed and even I have trouble finding it.

Walter and his damn barn full of English bike goodies! not hard to find. geez , how many times have I been there? how much tons of stuff I sold to that voracious buyer? He may as well live in the haunted bermuda triangle as I lose my mind caught in the rain, lost, entering the same gas station with my rain soaked map asking the attendant for directions over and over 3 times over. It's just the Ohio turnpike it's not mysterious to anybody just me. The stuff I am buying and selling and trying to buy from him is magical in varrying degrees yes, but crazy things have happened and with people not your every day people.

I'm in the middle of this huge pile of bikes deep in a basement and with a friend who I brought to the place and here the seller turns off the lights as a joke and I could not see my hand in front of my face and not wanting to drop the things I had pried loose and here my pal can see just fine in that pitch dark and he climbs down and over and up the stairs and turns on the light for me to see my way out how did he do that?

           the third Reich at war page 673 author Richard J, Evens posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 4:34:17 PM
"In early April 1945 Albert Speer encountered the Labor Front leader Robert Ley with Martin Boorman and others in deep discussion: Ley came rushing towards me with the news: Death rays have been invented! A simple apparatus that we can produce in large quantities. I have studied the documentation; theres no doubt about it. This will be a decisive weapon! With Boorman nodding confirmation, Ley went on, stuttering as always, to find fault with me. 'But of course your Ministry rejected the inventor. Fortunitly for us, he wrote to me. But now you personally must get this project going. Immediately. At this moment there is nothing more important'

(Here is where it gets spooky!)

Speer's team soon found that the inventor was an eccentric amateur who was asking for equipment so out of date that it had not been manufactured for forty years."

end of authors quote, and the rest is me rambling

You know gang, it occured to me what all we are surely missing, when we attend these rummage sales, estate sales where God Himself only knows WHO the owner of the junk we are snooping thru WAS WHEN HE LIVED, WORKED, COLLECTED AND THEN UP AND DIED!Sure, I',m looking for bikes, you want that Colson, I want the pair of Hercules, Shirley wants the furniture, the gals want the dishes and Sue, the bolts of fabric. We go downstairs to the basements, sheds, and you hold the flashlight for me. I lend you my cell phone and we call for a truck and pick out this and that. We go home with the prizes. I'm just at it for fun and hobby-ish pursuits, while Roger is more hungry with a business and he's looking for items to re- sell and flip for profit for his living and for various reasons and we go looking for different things.

Instead if we just take everything to that wharehouse and carry everything into the large room and dump it all on the table and inspect everything and I stop you all and tell you all who the owner of that farmhouse was in life, who he worked for, where he served and what all they were up to.

Except I am not trained for that kind of research, too lazy and narrow in scope- and I just want the old bikes and a few other every day plain things tyo acquire to further my collecting and things to make profit on.

Who all really delves into those paper notes, patent applications? the trunks of letters in the attic above the garage?

Are you willing to purpously disobey the person or persons running that estate sale and get into the trunk and go further and carry it off either with or without their permission? and face the possible consequinces? Of course not!

Oh, I stuck my head in anyways looking for the old bike and I got yelled at, apologized, explained myself and I withdrew to the basement and for "parts approved" of the place.

Just wondering if there were any old bikes up there I'm sorry! He has a scowl on his face and I almost get thrown out!
If the dead could watch us and speak to us they would hiss

"You fool! I buried coins, gold coins 15 feet from where you were standing, or the notes of a lifetime from work I brought home from work is over there. Calculations and jottings now faded are in that file. Over there. I died before it was finished."

Oh the things they would tell us!
Instead we don't really know where we were that autum day before you got hungry and we stopped the estate sale ventures and broke for lunch at the Horse and Buggy Inn for that French Onion soup.

Just a house of somebody who died. Just a son or heir who wants it cleaned out and the property sold. The wife married him late in their life she's the 3 rd wife she has run off the grown kids, she gets everything! She's in a Hurry to sell it- his co workers are moved to Florida and / or dead. It was so long ago and money is all we are here for. The safe in Mr. Jennings bedroom is our first stop. Acording to our inventories, there is no mention of a gardiner! Well inventories are deliberately wrong, often.

She does not know at all and does not give a hoot about what she does know, she forgot. Oh he's dead and left me so much to deal with. She has a young lover, now and everybody is ignorant of what all lies scattered about cheaply throughout the basement. Oh people were supposed to be informed, plans were made, so and so company did want to be called first after all he was our employee and we did yes, have contracts with some interesting firms but well it never happened. He died and it was scattered to the winds and you and I should never have been there, not even to buy the dinette set and the bikes but it was treated no differently as if he owned a restaurant.

We don't know where all we have been, who they were, The things missed, hidden money in the place, jottings of the name of the bank and the account numbers all the way up to, plans on paper rolled up in some cardboard mailing tube.

Yeah, he worked for Hughes or whomever, they drank and chased women when the were not working for...........?????
Usually it goes into the skip, the roll off dumpster and when they stand literal guard so you cannot go thru it and it is delivered and immediately deposited into landfil as people watch,........ you know there are secrets there.

Ever get your head bit off when you ask to buy something and they don't want you seeing a simple garage ? There is something up perhaps?

That old equipment that was 40 years out of date? That old junk? What became of it? Uh, gee, I don't collect electronics the tubes looked blown out. I got his Rudge bike and I stand there grinning like a fool.

Um hummmmm. He was a crackpot, a nut.

Are you sure?

The book I quoted from resumes it's discussion of Nazi wonder weapons that never materialized and, after teasing us with what I quoted we are not told what all Speer's team did find, how far they investigated, what happened to the documentation that was studied and the team perhaps wound up in a Russian prison where they died of exposure.

Of course, these are mysteries not meant for us to search out and examine. Fine with me! REALLY.
But you know what? We were the ones waiting at the house for 2 hours before the estate sale opened up. We were there. It was there. We walked past it, sniffed our noses, we liked the house, she liked the pool they had out back. I slipped in the mud, fell down the hill and I dropped their Limoges china gravy boat while loading it up in the car.

Where were you? Busy on another case.
Did they ever have an episode of the x- files where some housewife stumbles upon the Secrets?

How did you free the Genie? Chris? Um Gee, the bottle rattled and I thought there was something in the bottle.

           off topic, again posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 6:02:10 PM
Nobody goes to companies for a "company estate sale" Perhaps the death of a company is more controlled than an estate sale? Mistakes are made, employees are no longer getting a check are not there anymore. Loyal or not? They are gone. They are worried and rightly so, about their pension. And in these economic times when things are so quickly going to pot? The security guard was finally let go and they came in and removed the ENTIRE chandelier and made off with it and the other had it's crystals removed. What happens when this huge company and it's scattered buildings and everything ceases to trade?

People strip companies for the real estate and tooling but who sifts thru the paper and notes and what all?
Landfil? every time? nothing is saved? not ever?

Listen if I can pull over the scrap truck with a 20.00 dollar bill to pluck out the bike that was supposed to be taken straight away to landfil and we are not supposed to be stopping that truck and we did anyways because I waved a bill at the driver....

"Here we have a Micr encoder from the Jersey Central bank forclosure" Do we have an opening bid?

anybody? "

Ever see the movie:
Catch me if you can?" with Leo Decaprio?

Sure, so and so did two tours of Duty in W.W. 2 and brought things back except the footlocker was stolen or he just looks at you when you ask nosy questions but now that he's dead you go and get the bolt cutters off his own workbench the big ones and gee, who has it now? I didn't want Henri to get it, he's getting everything else!

I really wonder what all....... is out there? Who found what?

I have heard about people finding sunken Mississippi steamers that sunk and back long ago the river ran a different course, flooded and now it's buried on now filled in land that is somebody's farm. Dig it up, create a museaum, display the childs toys hidden in a mans woodworking toolbox things intended to be given as gifts to that child. The man drowned or just the box was lost. Everything was shipped on the steamers back then. Bikes too! The Titanic air horn whistle, the one that blew telling you you had 15 minutes before the ship was to sail recovered, restored and blown again- it's on you tube.

We went to the exhibit in Detroit and they had perfume from a salesman's suitcase recovered , opened and you could smell it. Things re- appear against the odds and are missed in the first place. When I went to bike distributor's going out of business sale nobody denied me access to the place. I have not made a habit of going to companies locations when they go out of business I stuck to estate sales and such. But it interesting to read that even Nikola Tesla could not keep his notes from blowing down the street after Morgan cut funding. Vandals broke in, things stolen and damaged. Sounds like a breach in security to me! I've read tales of urban explorers who open closed buildings just to go exploring to see what they can see. They find everything and everything in between and you thought it was sorted, sold,sanitized or secured?

Not always. I'm sure the expression "barn fresh" is a broad term.
There is Ayn Rand's: the Fountainhead and everyday reality lies between it sometimes. Just like a bike with good chrome and complete and in amazing shape with all the period parts , so goes the same with everything else out there asleep waiting to be discovered, awoke, and simply needing a good clean up and fresh batteries.

I know this website is not the Fortean times website. So I'll end this crazy non bike thread, but if there was a website where people that uncovered the fantastic at an estate sale when all they really wanted to find was common antiques told their story (s) I'll bet it would be interesting.

Like "Antiques roadshow, declassified and uncensored"

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Crewmates abord the Flying Dutchman posted by JDuck on 2/11/2010 at 8:15:56 AM
I just love your posts. Please keep rambling.

Jeff-time to read them!

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by: kent on 2/10/2010 at 8:24:59 AM
I just bought a 1965 Raleigh Sports. It is chrome from head to toe, and in excellent condition. Has anyone ever seen one before, or know anything about it?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/10/2010 at 8:48:37 AM
EXCELLENT find! Yes.. they're very few and far between! There's information here and there on this site pertaining to them... my mind is a bit nebulous but I recall they were issued in limited number to Raleigh dealers... or I may be thinking of something else

I'm sure others will chime in as well.

Of course, we'll all good naturedly refer to you as such things as a "lucky dog" or reference that you should "wipe your feet"...

Nicely done! Nicely done, indeed!!!!

Oh.. and of course.... PICS PLEASE!!!!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Chrome don't get you home... but who cares!?!??!?!?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by kent magyar on 2/10/2010 at 9:54:42 AM
Here is a pic of the chrome Raleigh


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by kent magyar on 2/10/2010 at 9:56:50 AM
One more photo


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by Matthew on 2/10/2010 at 11:39:36 AM
Lower those handlebars. I think you have the stem too far out of the headstock and that is dangerous.

Matthew - over the top?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by kent on 2/10/2010 at 12:13:26 PM
Yes I will. I will probably take it entirely apart, and clean each part individualy. Thnx. Anyone care to guess at the value of this bike?

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 2:20:51 PM
These are rare and prized by their owners.A special deal the rod brake models with 28 inch wheels were also chromed enclosed chaincases al all. Thrown about as a bonus and the original cost was more because of the chrome plated frame.
Good eye, yes the handlebar stem is too high.

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 7:39:29 PM
If the Price is right...
I'll say 1,000.00 Drew

serriously, we don't see these too often and it's strange.
Oh, long time Raleigh bike collectors , fans, former shop people, e.t.c. have seen these, talked about it, owned them but we don't see many come up for sale and you ask me to give an accurate value? Hee- Hee. my semi accurate guess is $1000.00

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by Matthew on 2/11/2010 at 11:53:06 AM
Maybe I am too English for my own good but I wouldn't give an all chrome model shed room. They are garish and unsubtle. I am the sort of chap who doesn't care for flashy Campag parts either, I like the painted monotone of black trade bikes.

So I wouldn't give you much for a chrome bike, shall we say £20 and I'll get it out of your way?

Matthew - too shiney.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by kent on 2/11/2010 at 12:48:47 PM
I am from the USA. We love garish!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by JS on 2/12/2010 at 1:15:18 AM
Strange. Chroming an old Raleigh or Philips is pretty common in China. I have seen about half a dozen.

Cost to throw the frame in the chroming vat is negligible as well...probably less than $100.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by chris on 2/15/2010 at 5:30:15 PM
American chrome will not match english chrome it's different

English chrome is better and back in the day, it was awesome

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by chris on 2/15/2010 at 5:30:28 PM
American chrome will not match english chrome it's different

English chrome is better and back in the day, it was awesome

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   All chrome Raleigh Sports posted by chris on 2/15/2010 at 5:32:48 PM
mom and grandmom thought the cadillacs were gaouche

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AGE / VALUE:   take a look! posted by: Chris on 2/9/2010 at 6:02:35 PM
U.K. e- bay item # 300394423765

These are downright magical. I know they are just steel spanners but these are worthy of being framed and displayed on the walls

Also, check out Rachelphelp's ladies bike with e cool valenced mudguards.

I love this stuff!!
Wow and double wow!!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   take a look! posted by Corey K on 2/13/2010 at 11:56:26 AM
Chris, I couldn't find any auctions for rachelphelps, though she dhoes hace feedback for 15 items. I even checked for completed auctions. Can you post a link to the ladies's bike?


Corey K

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   take a look! posted by Corey K on 2/13/2010 at 11:56:27 AM
Chris, I couldn't find any auctions for rachelphelps, though she dhoes hace feedback for 15 items. I even checked for completed auctions. Can you post a link to the ladies's bike?


Corey K

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   take a look! posted by chris on 2/15/2010 at 5:34:11 PM
i was looking at u.k e- bay where all the good stuff hides she is a regular there

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AGE / VALUE:   Frank Bowden vs Ted Crane Hercules v.s Raleigh posted by: Chris on 2/9/2010 at 5:01:25 PM
I have been reading in one of my books about all the fighting tiger fish tactics Frank Bowden did and all the intrigue and manipulations and battles Frank Bowden went thru to get and keep control of Raleigh and then to ram down his son thru the boards throat so he could install his son and set up the Raleigh dynasty.

Bowden entered the game extremely wealthy and fought and soldiered on from there. Raleigh took on Hercules Cycle and Motor founded by the Crane Brothers Ted and his brother whose name excapes me at the moment. The interesting thing is Crane was near broke when they started the company and they built Hercules into the largest cycle company in the world by the 1930's and Hercules nhas a record of kicking Raleigh tail all over the place.

Tough as nails they threatened to develop a rival 3 speed hub and install that in place of Sturmey- Archer.
A lot of behind the scenes adventures went on in the end they sold out in 1946 to Tube investments not Raleigh and it was not until 1960 that Hercules and Raleigh were wed in forced union together.

Ted crane did it all without any of Sir Franks advantages or connections, or back door crony-isms. All the chess tactitics The crane brothers just kept the unios out and worked their tails off from beginnings in a run down ruin of a building a former dunlop building assembling the bikes in the streets how they built Hercules and how the made their moves right and left to asseble such a mighty company such as Hercules would be an incredible story. As I said They did it without Bowden's advantages.

Would love to really get in an read it all. Who backed them and all the inner workings.

Hercules was a real formidible opponet

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Frank Bowden vs Ted Crane Hercules v.s Raleigh posted by ken on 2/11/2010 at 11:38:10 AM
Didn't just threaten- they did produce their own dreigang hubs. I kept one because Sheldon talked about how you could put multi cogs on them because they had threaded drivers. (He also states that S-A used threaded drivers before they switched to splines in the 40s.)

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AGE / VALUE:   House of Bondage by Charles Cole posted by: Chris on 2/9/2010 at 4:31:16 PM
I trashpicked a book about South Africa entitled: House of Bondage by Charles Cole. The book knocked me on my ass. The horrors of life in South Africa.

Eye opening to say the least! There were pictures of English bicycles in the book. So at first I was looking at the bikes but as I sat and read it at night you get into it and the author went without food and faced jail, beatings and he really sacrificed to bring the revealing pictures the book has, into existence. Ohh, to get that English bicycle? You would have to work in unspeakably bad conditions deep in the mine and work for like 66.00 a month and when the work contract was over you would leave for a brief vacation back home and you only would have a bit of cheap, soon the be rags, clothes,
the Hercules or Raleigh or Phillips bicycle, a few other knickkacks you over paid for, as well.

One fellow who had a wooden leg who was there signing up for another stint in the mines he lost the leg in a mine accident.

It is an eye opening book it made me angry and I sat and wept bitter tears as I flipped thru the pages.

We don't have to work in mines and go thru hell to obtain our bicycles and we are lucky.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   House of Bondage by Charles Cole posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/10/2010 at 8:59:41 AM
Chris, one need not venture as far as South Africa to hear of the terrors and desperation that is mining. In a book I had read, "The Kingdom Of Coal", about anthracite mining in the Scranton, PA area... not far from me, there were similar stories of horro. In fact, I've been in one of those mines at the Lackawanna County Coal Mining Museum.

A typical story... firstly... EVERYTHING was owned by "The Company". Hence... workers and their families lived in COMPANY OWNED housing. Procured everything, supplies, groceries, clothing... EVERYTHING... through the "Company Store".

IF... you were in the mine and just so happened to get yourself killed (not uncommon!), they would put your body off to the side... and at the END OF YOUR SHIFT then remove you from the mine. You would then be carted to your COMPANY OWNED house... unceremoniously deposited on the kitchen floor... and if... there was not an eldest son old enough and physically capable of replacing you in the mine... your family WOULD BE EVICTED.

Most mine workers back then were Polish immigrants. Hence the concentration of Polish folk in the Scranton and Hazleton areas to this day.

Mining was one insanely hard life..... And never... EVER... have I experienced such darkness. Part of the tour when you were in the mine... a mere 300 feet down... was they would shut off the lights.

Black... complete and utter... black.

Hey! I still have those bars man!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Yes... I HAVE been in the dark. ONCE.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   House of Bondage by Charles Cole posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 2:54:07 PM
Interesting it really is. I let my pursuit of Raleigh rod brake bicycles take me into South Africa in search of the bikes produced there. I've shared my mad quest (s) here already and really, when was the last time anybody besides me has written us here and inquired about their rod brake Raleigh, Phillips, B.S.A. or similar bike from this part of the globe? We don't have any body here who is from South Africa and really it's still closed off and secretive. There is no e- bay covering this part of the globe. One cannot buy goods from this part of the world, it still is not done.

My Canadian friends were eager to see the Raleigh I was conjouring up from South Africa. I had the payment draft drawn up and ready to be delivered but the gal said "Forget it, T.I. has just closed us down!"
The book gives rare insight on life in the country. I never see the badges from the bikes, never do we see any bikes or hear from their owners or collectors. The only one I did get ahold of was a tricycle brought over by a couple who had moved here and they threw it away at the kerb when the daughter outgrew it. It had the slightly smaller, silver backed, Raleigh heron badge with Springs, South Africa on it. I have since lost it, in a batch of things I sold by mistake. It was found on a street not far from my home it was weird.

I remember Don the bike distributor pal of mine muttering to me: "Watch it, buster" I drove him crazy. He's get to see every trophy, every new find.

My family has roots in the Michigan copper mines where great grandfather was the Welsh orphan boy who carried the dynamite in the copper mines. Orphans got the task of carrying the dynamite or so I was told.


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AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by: Curtis on 2/9/2010 at 11:17:26 AM
Hi, I originally posted this in Balloon/Middleweight..jj suggested I try here.

I picked up this Rudge a few weeks ago. Cantilever frame, Rear SA hub says 58, wheels are 26 X 1 3/4.. It came with chrome fenders and chain guard, which I've left off until I determine if they were original or not..They seem cheap, maybe aftermarket to me. I was under the impression that Rudge fenders and stays were of the higher quality of the Raleigh bikes..

Info and pics of an original would be greatly appreciated.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Curtis on 2/9/2010 at 11:27:38 AM
Another view


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Curtis on 2/9/2010 at 11:38:30 AM


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Warren on 2/9/2010 at 3:56:15 PM
That would be a Raleigh made Rudge. Raleigh made a few canti-framed models of their own at that time and the chrome mudguards were typical of early 60's bikes. Likely OEM? I've had a few similar models. Rudge was originally a premium line of bikes but the consensus here has been that after the takeover, Raleigh TI slowly downgraded Rudge and eventually all marques after a time. Dunelt, BSA, Rudge, Hercules all played second fiddle to the mother corporation.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Chris on 2/9/2010 at 4:22:35 PM
Love that front rack it's a Wald from Maysville, Kentucky Wald made a lot of things very large and great company back in the day


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Warren on 2/9/2010 at 5:00:59 PM
One other oddity...Dunlop 26 x 1 3/4" rims are typically westwoods and don't work with caliper brakes. They are usually found on delivery bikes. Any chance of seeing a closeup? Maybe it's not the original wheelset?

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Chris on 2/9/2010 at 5:45:35 PM
John Vernon Pugh's son took the Rudge company into strange waters, literally. "As what can only be described as a bizarre decision the company spent considerable sums of money and time and effort into developing adapatable sidecars for motorcycles that were also water worthy canoes giving the river man a new mobility." Needless to say the market demand for such niche products was not great....
Having spent such precious resources for a company in Rudge's position was not wise and the company was sold to E.M.I. who wanted to add the cycle buisness to offset the seasonal buisiness of phonographs it failed and E.M.I. was glad to unload it on Raleigh later on.
The Rudge plant in Hays, Middlesex was dismantled and production was moved to Nottingham. I'd love to see a set of photos showing the Rudge plant before closure.
The fenders on this bike are strange! British mudguard stays married to what looks like American type fenders.

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Warren on 2/9/2010 at 6:08:29 PM
I think you're right Chris...those fenders could be chrome but not that big. I think the wheelset and the mudguards are swapped out. The calipers/rims may tell the story.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Curtis on 2/9/2010 at 8:48:06 PM
Thanks folks! This is a fun little detective game!

Wheels are stamped: Dunlop 26 X 1 3/4 Enrick.FA 26 X 1 3/4
Rear Sturmey Archer hub: SW, 58

Here's some front caliper, I'm not sure what ya'll would like to see but I'll post it:


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Curtis on 2/9/2010 at 8:54:04 PM
Chris, I would love a sidecar canoe..What a GREAT concept!! Seriously.
And I really like the beefy front rack too. Thanks for the history..

I can post a pic of rear caliper tmrw..

BTW, I found this bike in Brooklyn, NY, not far from Coney Island..
Total spent so far:
$40 for the bike
$55 for tubes tires and cables

Total: $95

           RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Curtis on 2/10/2010 at 8:43:13 AM
Both front and rear are stamped *Dunlop Enrick.FA 26 x 1 3/4*
image: http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/curtibun/1265808655.jpg?t=1265816242

Both calipers are cast GB GRAND TOUR British Made
image: http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f72/curtibun/1265808632.jpg?t=1265816376

The seat post from center of bottom bracket to top of post is 18"

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Warren on 2/10/2010 at 9:27:28 AM
Well you've got me. I can't find a catalogue from the 50's or 60's with a similar bike listed but that's not unusual because they often made different models for export markets.Those are the first endrick rims I've seen in that size and I've never seen GB brakes on a roadster before although Raleigh did spec GB brakes on their road bikes (Gran Sport, Lentons etc.) Those Grand Tours are rare and maybe collectible. Is the front hub a Raleigh? If it is, I'd guess that it might be all original. Enjoy it.

I though you'd have a hard time finding tires for those rims. What did you buy?

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 6:12:03 PM
Great, we go ahead and doom the original Rudge company because they assume we are serious and they think there is a market out there for this insane project. Still, today, it might really sell.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Chris on 2/10/2010 at 7:35:24 PM
tires are the english version of the schwinn size A schwinn tire will not fit it's not interchangable even if the numbers are the same you need a tire marked British

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Canti frame posted by Warren on 2/11/2010 at 5:25:32 AM
Here's a similar but different Raleigh export frame of the same period...


           RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Curtis on 2/11/2010 at 8:56:20 AM
Warren, Thanks! Good looking out.
Yep. That's the same caliper setup as the one I have but those are definitely different mudguards..

Thanks for all the assistance.

The guys at B's Bikes in Greenpoint Brooklyn set me up with a pair of tires: Kenda Extra Prima 54 - 571, 26 X 2 X 1 3/4

A nice fit for this bike.

I put the fenders on yesterday just in time for what everyone here called, a mild 'blizzard.' haha!
Very close clearance at one spot on the rear, but overall, I think it works..and it's great in the snow!

Here it is:


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 2/11/2010 at 9:23:43 AM
From the Adirondack Museum. A decked canoe SIDECAR and the motorcycle that transports it.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - I don't have one of those....


           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:���Rudge Canti frame posted by Chris on 2/18/2010 at 5:45:54 PM
So all that research and developement that doomed the original Rudge company was gathered up and used and another company put it into production somewhere and some time after John Vernon Pugh's time

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AGE / VALUE:   Antique Raleigh bicycle sign- Porcelain posted by: Jeff on 2/9/2010 at 11:05:02 AM
Subject: Raleigh bicycle sign
Hi folks,
I am located in Colorado, USA. I acquired a vintage Raleigh bicycle sign in porcelain. I am trying to get information on age, origin, and value. I have exhausted hours of internet searches and contacts to no avail. I was hoping you folks may be able to offer some assistance. I have attached a photo of the sign. The dimensions are 35 ½ x 24. It is bordered by a ¾” black metal frame that appears to be factory installed. Porcelain is blue and black I would appreciate any help. Thanks


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Antique Raleigh bicycle sign- Porcelain posted by Chris on 2/9/2010 at 4:31:00 PM
A famous and long running ad campaign. The company got letters when they tried to retire it and it was brought back. Pulling what I remember from memory from the book. There were two frames originally the lion chasing the guy was the first and then when the fellow had outrun the lion he takes a nap under a tree by a brook and the lion creeps up and takes the bike from him and the lion has a grin on his face. The lion wanted the bicycle, that is all.

There are valuable we see them offered from 2,000.00 to $4000.00 U.S. what it sells for often is less- it is hard to say exactly. Later on the African was given a pair of Khakhi long pants and a gold wrist watch and was dressed a bit more modern. A few versions and different variations of this theme appeared.

Take it to Antiques Roadshow!

I'm currious where you got it and what you paid for this.

These old signs always have wild riotous colors.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Antique Raleigh bicycle sign- Porcelain posted by Chris on 2/9/2010 at 4:46:46 PM
Translated into foreign languages too.

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sunbeam Sports on Boston CL posted by: David on 2/7/2010 at 3:31:32 PM
Looks complete from the pictures:


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sunbeam Sports on Boston CL posted by Keith Body on 2/8/2010 at 9:24:38 AM
Sunbeam looks like a just post WW2 BSA, and has the correct gear lever.
Why do we see so many pictures with handlebars set dangerously high?

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