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English Roadsters

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by: Gary Kanel on 10/13/2009 at 4:42:37 AM

Well, I just found myself into another hobby. Quite by accident really. I was at an aution Saturday where there were a couple cool old bikes. A ladies Schwinn and some cool odd kinda bike I'd never seen before.

Well the odd kinda looking bike is now mine for six bucks. So brought it home, got on the copmputer and found out its a 1969 Raleigh Sports, its all in gold. Which I havent seen any pictures of others yet.

Its really pretty neat, 3 speed works, just aired up the tires and off I went.

So, now I wonder is ther decals and what not for these machines if I were to repaint it?

Whats the market value on this. I thought it was worth $6 anyway. Figure I'll just ride it some.

Thanks for any info you could give me on my newest hobby.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by Matthew on 10/13/2009 at 11:56:52 AM
Hi Gary,

Welcome aboard. You have hit on the best website in the wolrd for your new ride.

Decals are available at Lloyds Cycles and value, well there's a thing. These machines can go for silly money but you certainly bagged a bargain.

Matthew - mourning the loss of my moggy. (cat)

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by Stephen Hogben on 10/13/2009 at 2:24:06 PM
Hello Matthew,sorry to hear about your cat.Love cats won't have any more ,to painful when they go!

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/13/2009 at 6:44:59 PM
Gold, eh? Good catch that. Excellent price too. Post up some pics if you can. Meander about in here long enough and you'll come across such quaint sayings as "It's only original ONCE." (that being in reference to re-painting).

Glad to hear you've rescued the roadster. They are simply, the finest bicycles available. Clean it up. Oil it up. New tires if needed and just RIDE!

Welcome aboard!

Matthew... so sorry to hear of the cat's passing. My olde girl is getting on in years as well... 14 or thereabouts. My dogs as well... though not that olde.

They're family for certain. Even better than family at times.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - I once almost bought an all gold Dunelt......

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by JDuck on 10/14/2009 at 7:07:38 AM
Matthew, so sorry about the cat. We just lost my wife's favorite. Always the same as losing one of the family. We must always have cats in the house though.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by Matthew on 10/14/2009 at 10:29:48 AM
Sorry Gary, your post got hijacked!

I won't have another cat. We have now seen four pass away, two euthanised. I can't bear the loss agian.

The tortoise is 7 years old and will outlast all of us.

Matthew - mourning a moggy

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1969 Raleigh posted by Steve on 10/14/2009 at 2:56:36 PM
Now listen here Gary, this is very important....

I was at a vintage agricultural auction just over two years ago, I didn't come back with a tractor, plough or milking machine, somehow I came back with a very desperate looking Hercules Roadster.

People sniggered and watched in disbelief as I dragged it out of the auction room, I pretended not to notice and made out that I really knew what I had bought (for £10.00)

Truth is, I hadn't got a clue, I just loved the shape, build, enclosed chainguard, hub, sturdiness, weight, dirt, colour (black) and the historic content....all for a tenner.

When I got home, my wife said....oh !

Many bikes later, I now know a little more, much knowledge gained from the regulars on this site (to which I am most grateful).

Your next move will probably be to demolish the house, and erect a large temperature controlled building in its place to keep the bikes in....you have been warned !

Have fun.

Matthew, sorry to hear about your loss, as much as ours irritates me sometimes (when its scattered my bearings all over the floor), it somehow knows that I like it....even though its got dirty oil off a 3/16" chain all over its white furry nose at the moment !



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AGE / VALUE:   24T Sprocket posted by: JS on 10/12/2009 at 8:23:18 PM
Does anyone know if a 24T sprocket will fit in under the rear cover of a 26" chaincase?

(Right now I don't ahve this sprocket, just trying to plan ahead.)

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   24T Sprocket posted by chris on 10/13/2009 at 5:02:12 PM
Won't fit tried it myself- 22 is the largest

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AGE / VALUE:   Swiss Army bikes posted by: Jeff Bikeguy on 10/11/2009 at 5:09:25 AM
Yeah, I know...
They're not British but they are loosely based on the DL-1.
I picked one up yesterday and am wondering if there is some good information about them on the web. I found a few pages with a little info and a Swiss site that sells parts.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Swiss Army bikes posted by Matthew on 10/11/2009 at 1:11:37 PM

I don't see how they are loosely based on the DL-1 as they are military spec heavy weight, single speed machines and not rod braked roadsters.

They are a particular taste and will outlast most of us.

Matthew - making Swiss roll

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Swiss Army bikes posted by William Fotheringham - The Guardian on 10/11/2009 at 1:13:41 PM
From the Guardian newspaper 29/04/2001

Among the Lycra tights, drop handlebars, bottom-in-the-air cycling brigade, weight (that of the bike rather than its owner) is the equivalent of the 0-60 reading for sports-car owners. 'Just pick it up,' says the proud owner, as the latest carbon-fibre, titanium, multi-thousand pound offering is displayed to his slavering coterie, and they duly swoon. My first acquaintance with the Swedish-made Kronan bike was a variant on this. I picked it up to howk it into the Observer 's bike shed, and strained my back.

The Kronan weighs, at a rough estimate, at least twice as much as the slender carbon Trek machine on which Lance Armstrong won last year's Tour de France, but, at £150, it will set you back only a 20th of a replica of Armstrong's bike. The comparison is unfair, however: you can't ride an Armstrong bike to work without mortal fear that it will get scratched or nicked, any more than you could drive a Ferrari to the office.

There's a good reason why, in bike terms, the Kronan is more Giant Haystacks than Calista Flockhart. It is bombproof - literally. It is based on a Swedish army design first made 60 years ago and, indeed, the first Kronans to be sold were actually rescued from an army warehouse where they had gathered dust for decades. They were, however, in perfect working order.

In the same way that Volvos have flashing lights to remind you to put on your seatbelt, the Kronan leaves little to chance. It's made of steel, and that steel is heavily enamelled to counter rust - down to the wheel rims. The brake doesn't involve any cables to fray or brake blocks to wear out - it's a hub brake like that of a motorbike. Dynamo lights means no batteries to forget or to fall out when you hit a pothole.

The tyres are bigger than those of many mountain bikes, while the carrier is sturdy enough bear a small field gun. Indeed, it seems to have a small, backwards-pointing gun barrel on it, although closer inspection reveals that, sadly, this is not some device dreamed up by a Swedish Q for wasting couriers with nose rings who take the mickey, but is in fact more prosaic: it's for you keep your pump in. And if you thought that was in the sledgehammers-and-nuts category, it pales next to the sturdy ring of steel to protect the reflector on the mudguard from those who take pleasure in destroying such things.

There is, however, a certain overengineered urban chic - as in work boots and divers' watches - to all of this. There may be too many features, but the same could be said of combats and pockets. And some of the fussiness makes eminent sense: you won't get oily yick on your trousers, as the chain has a solid cover. The huge mudguards (steel again, I suspect) keep you clean as well.

There is a ubiquitous, functional elegance about the Kronan: it is precisely the kind of bike you could imagine carrying John Major's old maid through the mist to communion, but it would look as well-placed chained to the railings outside a minimalist flat in Notting Hill. And the beauty of something this substantial is that, when it is chained to those railings - outside house, office or shop - that if a vandal comes along and attempts GBH, he will come off the worst.

The Kronan has gone down well in Holland, where there is a tradition of riding to work or the shops on bikes like this. And as for its appeal here, you only have to look at the success rate of practical-looking, mildly kooky Swedish products in this country, led by furniture and football coaches. The makers also hope it will be adopted by companies who want to set up bike pools or merely to provide their employees with company bikes. Its numberplate is designed to help you work out which one is yours in the bike shed.

It's a stylish enough and user-friendly enough (and, for the accountants, cheap enough) bike to suit this end, but all that solidity comes at a price. Riding up anything bigger than a railway bridge is like pushing a steam roller out of a ditch. 'No complicated gears to go wrong,' boasts the literature, conveniently and rather patronisingly omitting to mention that gears help you go up hills. And on the Kronan, you need all the help you can get.

If you live in a valley and work on top of a large hill, the Kronan would only be recommended for the masochistic. On the other hand, if you make sure the journey is relatively flat, or take to canal towpaths or converted railway lines such as those in the Sustrans network, you can bowl along, cushioned on those huge tyres. But don't lift it without due care and the number of your osteopath ready to hand.

For more information, go to www.kronan.co.uk

Posted by Matthew - oh yes it was.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Swiss Army bikes posted by Steve on 10/12/2009 at 3:40:36 PM
I've got a Tradebike (cycle truck) that could match a good percentage of the above.

"pushing a steam roller out of a ditch"....or in my case "pushing a fully loaded Gundle up Ditchling Beacon" !

I must read the Guardian more often.



           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Swiss Army bikes posted by Matthew on 10/13/2009 at 1:46:54 PM
I prefer 'pedalling a cement mixer' as a description of trade bike cycling.

Matthew - thighs like boardroom table legs.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Swiss Army bikes posted by Chris on 10/20/2009 at 5:34:49 PM
"And steel that is heavily enameled to counter rust" Don't the Swiss boil the steel frames in a caustic solution to prevent rust? Spra bonderizing (the Pyreene Company's Bonderite?) Rust? You must be kidding! Why even mention rust? British bicycle frames do not rust Hercules pioneered a process that gave it's frames a silver polished finish that guarded against it ever rusting then Raleigh with Pyreene's Bonderize or Bonderite finish.

So, are the Swiss just relying on many coats of enamel or doing something similar to the British?

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AGE / VALUE:   Sheldon left no heir for his bike interests posted by: Chris on 10/8/2009 at 6:40:03 PM
I remember seeing a mention of the modern version of the "all speed gear hub" that the late Sheldon got to examine. What happened to that hub?

I was thinking he left no heir, nobody to step in his place and write and carry on his work.. Nobody can match him and the harris shop continues on selling to customers, folks he still brings to the shop by way of his archived legacy.

Still, there in no ringmaster at all not even somebody in his old jersey. the stage went dark and has not been re- lit. it's sad to see

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sheldon left no heir for his bike interests posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/11/2009 at 4:09:16 AM
Is this the shortest post you've ever made, Chris? ;-) Just winding you up a little there.... for there's a lot said in it's deeper meaning.

Since I am in no small part and parcel a participant in the manufacture and packaging development for "Product W", I truly miss the Maven... the Guru... not for just his vast knowledge, but his... shall we say "out of the box" view on all things.

Meanwhile... I did receive your envelope... had forgotten to advise as to it's receipt. Thanks. Your bars have been crated up and ready to ship so I'll await the next "transmission". ;-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone - He would have wanted us to wax bicycles... not lugubrious.....


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sheldon left no heir for his bike interests posted by Bicycle Mark on 10/14/2009 at 8:48:12 AM
Did you mean the fixed-gear three-speed? Here's a link: http://urbanvelo.org/sturmey-archer-s3x-fixed-gear-hub/

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sheldon left no heir for his bike interests posted by Bike Mark on 10/14/2009 at 8:53:04 AM
P.S.: There were a number of suggestions to Sunrace that they name their fixie hub after Sheldon. Looks like with a little work one could change the logo from "S3X" to "SBX" ;)

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need new tires posted by: Ata on 10/8/2009 at 4:48:02 PM
I need new tires for my 1963 Armstrong and I am wondering where I can find some that look like the originals. Any suggestions??

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need new tires posted by Matthew on 10/9/2009 at 2:44:16 PM

Matthew - every little helps.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need new tires posted by Ata on 10/11/2009 at 7:54:30 AM
I just checked and they are 26 and 1 3/8.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need new tires posted by Matthew on 10/11/2009 at 1:14:56 PM
Try Wallmart or any good hardware / cycle store.

Matthew - very tyred

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need new tires posted by Ata on 10/12/2009 at 8:59:52 PM
Thats funny, the tyred thing. :) Thanks!

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AGE / VALUE:   New Mystery Gear Hub posted by: JS on 10/8/2009 at 2:51:51 AM
Hey Guys-

I found another example of the "Mystery Gear hub" hear in Beijing and disassembled it with extensive pictures. If you are on dial up...go get a coffee while the page loads. Take a look and let me know your thoughts on this 3d jigsaw puzzle.



           RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Mystery Gear Hub posted by Chris on 10/8/2009 at 4:54:59 PM
Very currious. I look forward to looking this over in detail. I am glad to see your contributions here as well.

In my opinion,
Even before the time in history when Raleigh allowed Sturmey- Archer to be sold to other cycle firms for fitting to all sorts of brands makes and models and bikes with origins in many countries even before that, Sturmey Archer could not keep up with demand. The result was a parent company (in this case Raleigh) who ordered up multiple set copies of factory tooling and placed it in different locations under the names of Brampton, in Birmaingham, England Hercules, (in Birmingham England) Steyr steyria daimler Puch (in Graz Austria) and tooling was also in Nottingham, England in the "official" Sturmey- Archer factory. The Raleigh company sired a sub company Sturmey- Archer that went about sowing it's wild oats, fathering legitamate and illegitamate "children" so to speak and this is part of that legacy.

You might ask this hub: " Who's your daddy? and where were you born?"

in short, this satisfied demand in a world wide market that was craving the 3 speed hub.

As the late 1960's arrived and the sun was setting bikewise in England it all fell apart and tooling and buildings and notes and factory spec sheets that were supposed to be under lock and key it would up lost and blowing in the wind as well as scraped and thrown away in unbelievable quantities.

It is no surprise that some of that tooling or whatever would find it's way to China, Taiwan or anyplace else where there was a dollar or pound to be made.

All these countries came to Europe to attend what must have been the British bicycle industry's fire sale of the century. I'll bet they got so excited they didn't know what to buy up first and the shipping companies that boxed up tooling and loaded it ont boats must have done good business.

So to see "illigimate bastards" pop up in hub shells that resemble sturmey- Archer hubs is interesting but we have to remember that a fall off a clif is never neat, clean or organized and Raleigh once merged with the B.C.C. trying to hold onto everything it just got under it's umbrella it took an incredible fall off a cliff!

Dunlop was THE bicycle tire maker and they were everyplace and one day the Dunlop exectutives got sick of Raleigh bashing them in the head over prices they told Raleigh

Up yours! We will stop manufacture of bicycle tires and they did it was unimaginable but they did it. Guess who took up the slack?

It was not John Bull tyre and Rubber!! Thats for sure but Cheng Shin, Kenda and I.R.C. and others.

The Chinese caught some things it seems.
Like the entire industry and all it could still do!

Who would ever dream the wheel tooling from Schwinn that made the S- 2 Black Phantom!!! wheels in Chicago would be sent to Hungary ? When the new owners of Schwinn wanted to re-introduce an American classic the re- issued Black Phantom the wheels came back to the states from Hungary!

We just don't know as much, the details in the British case
The Moulton bicycle was copied without permission
and the club was looking into it as well as an interested Sir Alex Moulton
The Steyr 3 speed hub is said to been an out of patent clone.

Hercules was completely out of control and was troublesome and they threatened to put a rival 3 speed hub on the market and they tried to unseat Sturmey- Archer and sit their product down in it's place.

Hercules was a huge, and deadly rival to Raleigh and they did as they pleased Sir Edmund Crane was somebody to be feared and reconed with. They finally sold out to T.I. in 1946

There was B.S.A. who also was bought up but again there was a factory to chew up and make disappear and they had their own tooling and notes and files and where did all that go to?

If you read the Sturmey- Archer story book you will hear the tale about the B.S.A. hub being related to the Sturmey- Archer 3 speed hub almost identical except the B.S.A. was better than the Sturmey- Archer the hubs inventor (Reilly) let plans slip into the hands of a relative and found it's way to B.S.A and it caused Reilly trouble with Bowden the strong willed owner of Raleigh who owned Sturmey- Archer

there was Armstrong and a lot of other hub gear companies to nullify, destroy, buy up, bury, make vanish.

So, a lot of companies that contained much were dissembled and scraped and the Chinese came shopping, stealing, trashpicking, buying and copying at just the right time!

The Merger efforts that Raleigh and the B.C.C. undertook was not done cleanly or completely and things went missing on a huge scale.

If Sunrace thinks they own "Sturmey- Archer" (I laugh at this!) guess again! the box of goodies got dropped and was scattered in different direction all over the world.

The legacy goes on and this hub is an example. As a collector is is rather cool. Ride the thing and tell us what you think and stay on the lookout for more "damned oddities"

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Mystery Gear Hub posted by Chris on 10/8/2009 at 5:06:58 PM
People came over to the states from England and were sifting through our junkyards in search of the Triumph sports cars and some of the British leyland cars and they were loading them up onto boats for shipment back to the U.K. for restoration and it was like we don't want ya all to have this, we want it back and there was a real effort to get it back I heard this tale while haunting junkyards and supply places in Michigan when I owned three M.G. midgets at once. The exact model Triumph or whatever it was I don't remember right now.

The crazy things that collectors do, imagine it, on a huge grande scale done by the powerful parent companies.

The whole story has not been told we see just the tip of the iceberg the history is in scrap books and in the minds of living surviving employees who are in nursing homes in the u.k. It's at the kerb because grandaughter or somebody's nephew is cleaning out the shed or whole house to sell the house to the village because they are going to knock down the block and widen the road.

How do you think Hillary Stone is so smart and knowledgable and where he gets all the goodies!

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Mystery Gear Hub posted by Chris on 10/8/2009 at 6:30:24 PM
I read the Sturmey- Archer story book and the updates and no mention was made of an F.M.B. hub which is the four speed f.m. combined with a brake in exactly the same shell almost as what you show us.

I acquired the original blueprint drawings of the f.m.b. and another type hub. From a collector who traveled to the U.K. and pried it away from an old gentleman who got it somehow. there was pain and suffering associated in getting it on his end before I layed cash in his hands and carried it home- it winds up in my hands and I sat there looking at it.Wondering why it was not in Hadland's book it would have had to be in it's own section of things almost made.

What was really cool was seeing an actual living and breathing sturmey- Archer X.A.G. dynohub prototype on e- bay! the alloy shell, the cermamic magnet technology in a working prototype on the sellers desk posing for the picture on e- bay.

Stuff survives, unfortunitly if falls into the hands of folks who don't know what it is, how big and how much money was made years ago in selling and repairing it years ago.

it's old, the new owner of the shop is some 29 year old grandaughter and here the shop mechanic has retired, has cancer or has died and it's sitting forgotten in the shop, business, enterprise, factory, conglomerate or whatever and here your's truly walks in and dumb as a dead armadillo but with the interest in this old thing because it's neat and I like old British bicycles but gee, what is it? And now I have it.
They moan, "you didn't sell it to Chris did you?" Sure it was going to landfil, the trash, the scrap man the demolition company gave or sold it to him. He was friendly and brought us beer! Cleaned out the sheds. old loyalties are forgotten things shift into the hands who don't know who to be loyal to whom to sell to or not. it's an iten to be sold. period. without the baggage of personal feelings "um it's a bike and he was there" done deal. prototype, rare, one off, last one ever made, the result of time and money whatever! 200.00 and it's yours kid and some 16 year old jackass like me wipes the dust on his pants and loads it in the car rack and takes it home to get quizzed about it when I phone my bike collecting teacher and report how I'm doing.

In Finding Forrester (movie) the stunned professor asks William Forrester "Jamal Wallace is a friend of yours?"

Um, William had cancer here are the keys to the estate, the safe deposit box, rights to the sequel book, and the book in the typewriter (everything) William befriended the 16 year old black kid from the bronx, a basketball player
This happens in real life, all- the- time.
the old school authors or draftsmen, machinists, chemists whomever are all around us and often hiding in plain site but they are cantankerous, opinionated, strange, they rub folks the wrong way and when they leave your group you suffer they vanish back into the mist and take their experiences and knowledge and contacts with them. What bothers me is what happened to the tools he had, of the old parts, or the manuscript of the book he was working on? "Don't tell me you threw it away!!"
and like Dr. Kevorkian many of these people "enjoy agrivating people for fun" They also value their privacy, they just don't care anymore. These are your greatest sources but you also have to know your stuff, read the books and magazines and hang out in the shops. Just get out there! "I don't know you you are not one of those Schwinn collector nuts! Great! ok, here is the whole place, the basemant light is on the left knock yourself out. I'm retiring to Florida. Do you have my cashiers check? Good Boy!

Basically I showed up at the right time and not knowing anybody and being a nobody I got to snap it up often because the real buyer did not show up at all, had no funds available, or was late or because I outbid, offered more I got it. When they complain why did you sell that stuff to that idiot? Well, he was the only one who showed up! He paid cash, you like to mess me over with a series of smaller checks and he bought it all at once, in cash. People do not wait, when it goes it goes.
So never produced, mooted hubs are still real in plans and drawings and those like everything else, like to go missing and it turns up.

And I'm not connected to many folks, have not hunted on that large a scale and it was hit and miss and If I can find stuff like this think what all the real collectors are finding, learning, unearthing and have hidden in the wharehouse s they maintain. There is secrecy in this people look at you and say nothing and the British are maddeningly good at this. In fact, one really has to be British and in the country to really go anywhere as a collector or amateur historian.

Machinists love to tinker and what better than a bicycle hub? or a whole bike?

Myself, I've been a cross between Indiana Jones and Inspector Clouseau in my chase of the Raleigh bicycle.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Mystery Gear Hub posted by JS on 10/8/2009 at 11:28:55 PM
Well, Chris I can tell you for certain that the Mystery Hub is not based on any Sturmey-Archer design that I know of.

Nor is it based on the Sachs or Bendix designs. It's very different.

As to Sunrace, I'd have to disagree. They "own" Sturmey-Archer in that keep the brand viable by providing new and competitve products. Not just the same as ever variants on a 3 speed. Quality, materials, design and function are all much better than ever. Clearly they are not living in the past, but making sure S-A stays alive and viable.

The SA clones cannot say that. As a result, I suspect the few that remain will soon be gone: Eaten by Shimano, Sunrace and others who further their gearhub tech.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   New Mystery Gear Hub posted by Chris on 10/13/2009 at 5:07:25 PM
the fact that it is different is what makes it interesting. A mystery inside the hub shell that resembles a Sturmey- Archer 3 speed dynohub the oiler is British as well but inside it's all different, huh?

Yes, what you said is true.

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AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh's tooling posted by: Chris on 10/7/2009 at 6:16:26 PM
The British government ordered the destruction of 12 million dollars worth of Delorean car tooling.
Some of the Delorean D.M.C. tooling was dumped into Galway Bay, Scuba divers have photographed the dies lying on the ocean floor.

What happened to Raleigh's tooling? The world famous, all steel rod brake 28 inch roadster that made the company famous. Nowhere have I read of what happened to it.

When I was buying direct from Raleigh's factory I was told a story I will never forget. It concerned the decal transfer department.

When the fellow (bloke) who was in charge of it when he retired they decided to go and burn the building the company decided to do this themselves and they set fire to the building and everything inside it the drawers full of transfer decals and this covered other makes and brands of bikes Raleigh had bought up and now owned the rights to.
They didn't want to deal with it.
Old rubbish he said!
Nobody of the calibre of Hillary Stone was called in to purchase it. Astounding!

sold but rather destroyed. I would like to know if that was true. Look, if I'm offered one of the very last 7 of the 28 inch rod brake royal roadsters and tires and other bits and parts he would have sold me decals if they were there in some shelf.

My mind was reeling he switched the conversation to the address and bank wire numbers and he had to get off the phone as they had the "Christmas order to get out?

The bike I got was not on the inventory, off the list one of 7 in wharehouse the other 5 are spoken for for company Derby big whigs" you want it? the draft was made out to Raleigh not the man himself, I bought other stuff until one day I called and "e no longer works here."I can't trace him now.

If one is going to raise the Phoenix from the ashes or in this case a Famous Heron you have to know what happened to it and where is it now?

I can tell you, at 60 cents a minute the telephone is not the way to do it!
I have written about things in unlikely places.

The saints may have been taken up to heaven without ever dying but this does not happen with bicycles or the remains of the factories but one does wonder when looking over Hercules in search of history.

Where are the old folks who worked in these places?

If you saw a U.F.O. they would tell you that if you ever talked somebody would be picking your bones out of the sand. Well, why is this information so elusive to us?

Where are the former employees? This is just bicycle history.

The Huret brothers (f they are still alive)don't give interviews.

Folks in this offer the things they have (ome of it)for sale but they don't tell the fantastic tales and what they have discovered.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh's tooling posted by Huret on 10/8/2009 at 7:21:40 PM
Per Bikeforums, some of the highly sought Huret derailleurs are the best.

Simplex too, better than Campagnolo:


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AGE / VALUE:   45.00 for front axle cones? posted by: Chris on 10/6/2009 at 6:10:23 PM
Well it is a beautiful thing to see! And I'm glad to see somebody offering them too!

But 45.00 for a set of front axle cones? Yee Goodness! Yow!

e- bay item #
160366181929 front axle cones for vintage raleigh bike

These have the shoulder and are an exact copy and the seller claims these are better than the factory made ones. He is correct about the cones being the achillies heel as the cones do pit and wear out. I had one crack right thru one time myself.

So keeping an eye on the front hub cones in your old Raleigh is a good idea.

I remember the open drawers in the back of the shops and I was trying to get my huge hands into the little compartments to pull out the small and various original sturmey Archer and Raleigh replacement parts in a pile, onto the shops desk by their cash register and lawn mowing money was handed over for small Raleigh parts and then I pulled out whole drawers and that was quicker.

The parts would be dirty and have little paper tags on them. "Don't take too much we have to repair customers bikes"

I was young and didn't ride Campagnolo and my friend asked what all was in the back of this one shop and I rattled off and when I mentioned Campagnolo he advised actually insisted I buy all the Campy I could get my hands on. I didn't want it. I was so devoted to chasing the old rod brake raleigh stuff but soon I was gathering up all the Campy parts I could find. Sometimes he had a attitude like I was the village idiot who won the lottery. (joe) "Um, that's Chater lea you have there? (Chris) Yes says Chater lea on the boxes and he has more of it. What's Chater Lea? (I asked) Smoothly and without getting excited he tells me to buy it all up and send him some. "Um... you want to get all of that if you can .... Where are you calling me from again?"

Does he have any Bates? Bains? Thanet? Hetchins? ( joe)

"Yes he has some of those brands": "Why? are they any good?" He would get quiet like he was trying to remain calm and not loose his composure and with me it must have been difficult. He was at work marooned till 5 p.m and I was unearthing the long lost and still famous old parts in all these old shops and had my hands on stuff and I did not know what I was doing at all. He was my guide, teacher and friend. This one time when I was visting him I went into the city and he had to work and he told me he would give his left (something) to be where I was on such a beautiful day like it was. I had to explain that I was not rubbing his nose in it and that I really did need his advice. He'd say: "You can't really be this stupid!"

I'd say "Oh yes, I can, I am!" I'd explain that I was young and didn't know. And this was before the net before I collected books and borrowed books from shop owning friends He'd get quiet then excited and talk fast" it went on for years but none of us forsaw the day when a set of hand turned axle cones would be fore sale at $45.00

Yes, Chris, yes. Where are you now? Slow down, what else does he have?

it was fun times.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   45.00 for front axle cones? posted by chris on 10/6/2009 at 6:47:05 PM
I didn't tell him where I was ever and I must tell you not to ever tell where you are, where the old shop full of goodies is,
because folks will swoop in and buy it out from underneath you. collectors whomever.

I always said "An old shop" Where are you finding this stuff?

I was surprised so much of it was in the dumpster or slated to be thrown out this was in the 70's 80's and early 90's

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   45.00 for front axle cones? posted by mark on 10/7/2009 at 2:30:07 PM
And then there's the Phillips bike bell pushing past $130 right now on Ebay--love to have it myself but way out of my range, desirable yes but i had no idea these get this pricey!

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   45.00 for front axle cones? posted by Chris on 10/7/2009 at 6:16:14 PM
yes, but in a whisper I will say " Yes but, it's in the original box!" the box!

imagine a whole case or larger box filled with many many smaller boxes each containing a n.o.s. bell.

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WANTED:   Looking for cable for SA 3-speed quadrant shifter posted by: David on 10/4/2009 at 8:00:28 PM
Hello everyone

The other day the cable snapped on my SA 3-speed quadrant shifter (this one's on my Phillips 28" roadster). I was wondering if any of you guys have one hanging around or know the best source for one.



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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge finish? posted by: Dave F on 10/3/2009 at 8:41:22 AM
I'm looking at a Rudge right now, and the finish is pretty much flat black...were they painted like this? The owner is saying that it's not oxidized but rather the factory finish..hmm, I dunno. If so, that's fine...just don't want to buy under false pretenses :)

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge finish? posted by Kevin on 10/3/2009 at 2:44:30 PM
IT's oxidized or repainted. Check for decals.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge finish? posted by Matthew on 10/4/2009 at 6:32:27 AM
British cycle factories were immensely proud of their finishes. They gave them names which reflected this pride and they didn't offer matt black or satin finishes as an option. As Kevin says, the bike has oxidised or been repainted. The easy answer is to try some T-Cut on a hidden section of paintwork. Oxidised paintwork will shine under the influence of T-Cut.

Matthew - shining to rise.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge finish? posted by Dave F on 10/4/2009 at 7:28:24 PM
Thanks...that's what I figured...the owner was suggesting that they started painting them flat during WW2 so that they couldn't be spotted as easily from the air...bicycles? I didn't want to be the fool...and now I know I'm not...thanks!

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MISC:   RAYNAL posted by: Matthew on 10/2/2009 at 3:02:49 PM
Well, if you wait long enough knowledge comes to find you.

Raynal Manufacturing Co. Ltd.,
Woodbarn Road,
Birmingham 21
Telephone Smethwick 0738

Quite a range of bicycles, including two delivery bicycles (Steve I will be in touch)

Matthew - seek and ye shall find

           RE:MISC:   RAYNAL posted by Steve on 10/3/2009 at 8:11:45 AM
I'm intrigued.

It's been a funny old week here....Reynolds wing nuts, an old "flip-flop"....and I daren't say what the third arrival (donation) is because I haven't seen it or got it yet, I know it's seized, but hey....what's new !

Seek and ye shall find, how very true.


           RE:MISC:   RAYNAL posted by Matthew on 5/14/2010 at 2:08:01 PM
The October 2009 issue of Icenicam magazine carried an article on Raynal, providing information on Raynal’s purchase of Dunelt Cycles. With their permission, I’ve added the following relevant extracts to this Dunelt history. Please bear in mind that the following is copyrighted to Icenicam:

Raynal purchased the rights to Dunelt Cycles in 1937, buying into an established brand name, and ready access to its network of retailers. 1938 advertising finds the Dunelt Cycle Co now listed at Raynal’s address at Woodburn Road, Handsworth, Birmingham, 21.

Raynal was bought out by Tube Investments in 1950. TI acquired Raynal purely to secure the Dunelt Cycles brand, and in 1951 we find the business now listing its office address as Dunelt Cycle Co Ltd, Cornwall Road, Smethwick, Bimingham 40 (though only the next road down from the old Raynal cycle works, so the manufacturing didn’t really appear to have moved at all).

TI Reynolds Tube Manipulators produced a series of prototype model mopeds in the mid 1950s, one version of which, fitted with a Rex engine, became listed under the Dunelt brand – though never actually went into production.

February 1959 finds Dunelt Cycle Co Ltd registered from Rabone Lane, Smethwick, Birmingham 40, though apparently no more than an office from another side of the old Raynal factory block, which now seems to have been renamed ‘Attercliffe Works’ in some reflection back to Dunford & Elliott’s history from that area of Sheffield.

Dunelt branded cycles continued to be sold up to the last years of the 1960s, though headstock badges reveal these later machines of Nottingham as the brand transferred to Raleigh, so he Raynal factory would appear to have been disposed of sometime during the decade.

Respects to Icenicam Magazine

Matthew - copy -right or wrong?

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MISC:   nexus hub question posted by: mark on 10/1/2009 at 3:30:59 PM
Hope this is not too off-topic or sacreligious BUT--
i have a never used Shimano 4 speed coaster hub, was wondering if i could use/mount it safely without the coasterbrake as if it were a free wheel hub?

           RE:MISC:   nexus hub question posted by mark on 10/3/2009 at 8:11:23 AM
p.s. i wasn't planning on using this on one of my english bikes :)
i do have a 70s schwinn too

           RE:RE:MISC:   nexus hub question posted by ken on 10/5/2009 at 12:01:17 PM
You said coaster, not roller... It seems to me the drive clutch would only rotate about a quarter or half turn whether or not the brake itself were present, but one of the engineering-smart guys here ought to be able to clarify.

           RE:MISC:   nexus hub question posted by Mark R. on 10/5/2009 at 9:41:21 PM
If it has a back-pedal (coaster) brake then no, you cannot. The brake arm needs to be clamped or you'll spin and destroy the hub. I know, because I had the clamp come undone on a Sachs 7-speed hub and it snapped the axle. :(

If it's a "roller brake" then yes, as it mounts separately from the hub's innards (I've taken the roller brake off my Nexus 7).


           RE:MISC:   nexus hub question posted by mark on 10/7/2009 at 2:40:29 PM
thanks all for the info, mine's definitely coaster not roller so i will use it as is...another Mark R.!

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MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by: brian on 10/1/2009 at 10:50:40 AM
i have a 1954 sturmey archer hub. i have used these hubs, mostly mid 60's through early 70's. always smooth. anyway, i found this '54 model and it seems to work fine mechanically but will not roll smoothly at all. if this were a standard hub i would take it apart clean the gunk out of the bearings and re pack them.
i have done a lot of research on these bikes but i have a question that hasnt been answered.

can i clean this gunk out by flushing oil through it or is a break down inevitable? i have worked in light oils and the free spin has improved but it is not near perfect. from what i have read some grease for the outer bearings is okay.
can i reach the outer bearings to clean/pack them without taking apart the inner mechanism?

phew, thanks

           RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by Schultz on 10/1/2009 at 1:39:10 PM

Yes, you can pry out the bearing ring and clean it out and regrease the bearing ring no grease inside the hub remember you can flush it out there is grease in both sides of the bearing ring and the one side has smaller bearings under a cover and you grease those as well.

These are fun to overhaul!
First off look it directly into the eye and say to it HA! I AIN'T SCARED OF YOU! If this thing senses that you are scared of it it's all over! Seroiusly, it's not difficult. You can find books on bicycle hub repair and overhaul at your used bookstore in the cycling section alongside books on Lance Armstrong are books from the 1960's and 1970's on bike repair paperback books like

glens complete bicycle maintence and "sinceres" bicycle repair
and you can ask your local bike shop if they will let you see for a little bit the book called "sutherlands manuel"

Do what I did, and bring them Tsing Tao beer from China or their favorite cold beer and after they are loosened up a bit, then sweetly ask them to look the other way while you borrow the book go in the shops office or across the street to wherever there is a copy machine and you have your naughty way! - Just you, the book and the xerox machine!!
Be prepared to be rejected for trying this stunt. Go across town and schmooze the other shops! The Sutherlands book is expensive regular folks who are not shop employees or owners are not supposed to see it. It's for the trade only and all that yada yada
The sutherlands book is the "bike shop repair book bible" it's expensive! Hopefully somebody will look the other way while you, the copy machine and the open book are getting busy!

The Sutherlands book covers it all! You are studying the Sturmey- Archer a.w. 3 speed the basic bread and butter hub also it takes on other names like the Brampton, hub from birmingham, England. Steyr, or steryia, from austria. the Sears 3 speed hub, and others. you can find this in the used book store for 3 to 4 dollars but if you are up to adventure and want the best book go after the sutherlands book.
your hub, The Sturmey Archer hub from 1954 has flats on the left hand ball cup for putting the beast in the bench vice and you turn and unscrew it giving you access into the things inner guts. if it is marked a.w. don't be scared!

parts are available things like new clutches and planet pinnions and the inner guts there is no timing to set like the f.w. 4 speed and look the book over and then go to it!

keep us informed of how it goes and if you need anything.
oil is singer sewing machine oil or equivilent.


           RE:MISC: sturmey archer help posted by Al on 10/1/2009 at 3:14:25 PM

Here are the original Sturmey Archer tech manuals:


Mark Stonich's site is also chock full of good stuff:


When you get ready to grease eveything up, don't hesitate to write back and get loads of advice on the best grease, correct weight of oil. That always gets everyone here all riled up.

Or you could search the archives.

My 2 cents - On later S/A hubs I use Weld-Tite's bicycle oil for the hub parts. Weld-Tite sells exactly the same looking stuff as the original Sturmey Archer oil, down to the same plastic bottles. S/A oil is no longer sold. Then I use Park grease on the bearings. And auto lithium grease for the dust channels - won't dissolve in the oil like the Park grease does.

For 1960 and earlier hubs, the consensus from the cognoscenti is that the hubs were designed for oil only.

I'm sure there are folks out there with different - and better - ideas.

The thing with these old hubs is that all the old grease has turned to a thin coating of varnish over the last 60 years. Simply adding fresh oil doesn't cut through it. It's got to be cleaned up before it will run really smooth.

I've heard mixed reviews on the best way to clean the innards - some use only kerosene, some use citrus degreasers, and some warn against using any degreaser. The last folks only use light weight oil and scrub with a cloth. They say that removing all the oil destroys the lubricating film on the hub parts, causing even more wear. Suit yourself.

Good luck!


           RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by brian on 10/1/2009 at 7:13:22 PM
thank you everyone. lots of great advice. for the record, i'm not exactly scared of it, but have a lazy/leave well enough alone attitude. i dont want to rip the guts out if all i need to do is regrease the outer cups.
who knows what i will find once i get digging into it though.
i'm up for the challenge and i'm sure curiousity will force me to one day tear one apart.

thanks again and i will keep you posted

           RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by brian on 10/1/2009 at 7:13:24 PM
thank you everyone. lots of great advice. for the record, i'm not exactly scared of it, but have a lazy/leave well enough alone attitude. i dont want to rip the guts out if all i need to do is regrease the outer cups.
who knows what i will find once i get digging into it though.
i'm up for the challenge and i'm sure curiousity will force me to one day tear one apart.

thanks again and i will keep you posted

           RE:MISC:���sturmey archer help posted by mark on 10/4/2009 at 12:57:31 PM
Schultz--Do you recommend any particular edition of sutherland's? i notice in abebooks.com that it is expensive! AND that there are at least 4 editions, i wonder if later editions dropped some of the SA stuff? thanx

           RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by David on 10/5/2009 at 7:29:48 AM
There are PDF scans of Sutherland's on the net and are not hard to find. Check diff editions and see which you like - then download it!

           RE:RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by Schultz, sgt, schultz on 10/6/2009 at 5:50:06 PM
Yes, it's expensive! Worth it but expensive

I was not aware that p.d.f. files were out there on the net.

Go with Davids suggestion. So much of my advice is from the days before the internet arrived.

The earlier editions will have the older Sturmey- Archer hub stuff in it while later editions will cover the newer stuff. Don't forget the used bookstore by the way!

My pal said to me:
"You want to use my copier in my office and xerox what?"
I stood there with the Sutherlands book in my hands with a mischievious grin on my face.

Ok, go ahead but.... "I know nothing, Nothing!!"

           RE:RE:RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by Schultz on 10/6/2009 at 5:57:59 PM
It is worth mentioning that Bike smith design and our pal Mark Stonich is about the only one offering the heir and successor to the world famous and now, no longer produced

"Park Tool cotter pin press" Park ceased production of their tool and left us all out in the cold shivvering and unable to remove the cotter pins in out bikes.

Park said "Ah, so sorry we no longer make!" And so, Mark Stonich as the hero that he is, he started making this tool for us.

So everybody order a cotter pin press tool from Mark!

At one time, I petered my shop friend to pester his supplier to order three of the Park cotter pin press tools for me: "because this is exactly the kind of thing they will someday discontinue!!"

I was right!

           RE:MISC:   sturmey archer help posted by brian on 10/21/2009 at 10:41:00 PM
phew, finally got around to cleaning up that hub. lucky me, i took off the dust cap and the spring, dowsed it with wd-40, put it back together and now it is smooooooth. so far it seems like everything is in good shape.
its a nice surprise to see people post more info.
seriously thank you all.
i'll keep updating too, dont worry.


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AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Ulster Tourist posted by: adrian steele on 9/30/2009 at 7:21:33 PM
Hi there, I'm new to this site but was wondering if anyone can shed some light on a bike I've recently inhereted. It's a Rudge Ulster Tourist in original condition as far as I can tell, in need of some tlc but on first inspection looks ridable without full restoration. The rear Sturmey Archer three speed hub has 56-9 on it, is this an indication of the year ? I'm a proficient cycle mechanic/engineer but have not tackled a vintage restoration before so any guidance would be appreciated. Thanks.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Ulster Tourist posted by David on 9/30/2009 at 8:58:30 PM
Yes - that's the year. I think it's probably a Raleigh, really, with some annoying and quirky details such as 26tpi threads on several key parts. But you'll get plenty of useful advice on this site. Post a picture.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge Ulster Tourist posted by Chris on 10/1/2009 at 1:46:45 PM
Raleigh bought up Rudge in 1932 added Rudge to their line of bike Raleigh boasted in house production of Raleigh, Rudge and Humber bikes.

new bottom bracket cups are available on e- bay from a seller who is greece both of the rare as hens teeth including the fixed cup! N.O.S. this is where the pedals go around. your bike has the rudge hand in the crankset rudge colors, rudge decals but raleigh took rudge over and made them in nottingaham in raleigh's huge modern factory yes it will use and have in it raleigh's fittings that are raleigh's 26 t.p.i. and not 24.

26 t.p.i. threading was raleigh's own and today it is a bastard thread unless you go to e- bay or other sources.

would love to see pictures of your bike sorry for your loss in the family

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MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by: Thom J. on 9/28/2009 at 1:02:27 PM
On my DL-1, the side-wall on the rear wheel's tire has a slight protrusion/tear on the letter D of Dunlop. I've used a little rubber cement in the past to hold it back in place but it appears as though the inner tube's pressure has caused it to separate again. I was thinking of using a piece of vinyl or portion of older inner tube as a "boot" inside the tire and then re-glue to break. How does this sound to you folks? Any other suggestions I should try? Thx in advance, Thom J.

           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Matthew on 9/28/2009 at 1:44:05 PM
In a word - Dangerous.

Matthew - what price a tyres and your safety

           RE:RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Chris on 9/28/2009 at 6:03:43 PM
Well, I am all for preserving the originality of the bike's appearence but this thinking goes out the window (and should for you as well) when safety is the issue and it is the issue here.

Replace the rear tire.

If the bike has an enclosed chainguard and will be a bit of work to replace that rear tire please take the time and replace the tire anyways.

The Dunlop tire could blow out, at a bad time we don't want you to fall or get hurt and it's not worth the risk.

I would cut it up and make a key fob out of the words "Dunlop" save the lettering from the tire I assume it's written twice one on each side.

I am all for reflective vest and bright green yellow reflective shirts or jerseys as well.

           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Steve on 9/29/2009 at 1:08:53 AM
Chris, love the keyfob idea....never thought of that.

By the end of today, I'm probably going to have around 60 keyfobs !

As a point of interest, I sometimes use old (life expired) innertubes for tie'ing delicate metal parts up into the garage rafters without marking them (cut the valves out first though).


           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by KEvin on 9/29/2009 at 3:41:12 AM
Old 20 inch and 24 inch innertubes can be cut into strips and used as rim strips for 26" bikes. Just cut a new hole for the innertube stem to poke through. Another example of "re-cycling."


           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Thom J. on 9/29/2009 at 7:57:56 AM
Thx for all the info and updates. I figured that the rear tire would need to be replaced but was hoping not to. So, what brand of tire do you recommend? Schwalbe, Kenda or ?

           RE:RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Chris on 9/29/2009 at 9:52:52 AM
Schwallbe is best or better than Kenda steer away from brands that have narrow tread patterns you want wide treads that are safer than the narrow ones Schwallbe is best these vary 28 inch tires are interesting

i wish to see these key fobs sold someplace! hint hint hint they will sell!!

           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Matthew on 9/29/2009 at 10:28:45 AM
Well I would search out and use a Michelin, preferably a World Tour or a Zig Zag both long lived and safe.

Matthew - Tour le monde

           RE:MISC: Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Al on 9/30/2009 at 10:48:16 AM

My new favorite tire:

Panaracer Col de la Vie in 650A. It's cushy, a tad wider than all the other 26 x 1 3/8 tires out there. Gumwall.

I also use Schwalbe puncture resistant tires. But they seem kind of dull and clunky compared to the Panaracers.

As far as repairing your old tire, I used to do this all the time with tubular tires. I made a boot from an old tubular casing, about 5 inches long, and glued it in place with latex emulsion. It spanned the inside of the wounded tubular casing. I don't see why the same wouldn't work with your tire. I guess you'd need an old tubular tire, tho...

Good luck!

           RE:RE:MISC: Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Chris on 9/30/2009 at 2:19:14 PM
I love the Michelin Zig Zag tires! As for key fobs use two cutouts "one on each side of the coin" and stitch them together with brown thread.

           RE:RE:RE:MISC: Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Chris on 10/6/2009 at 5:59:45 PM
Steve, when will I see your key fobs for sale at oldroads.com?

           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Thom J. on 10/7/2009 at 9:40:18 AM
OK, does anyone have a line on these Michelin World Tour and Zig Zag tires in 28 X 1 1/2" size? My local vintage shops aren't finding them on their list of available tires. The Schwalbe Marathon HS368s are available and look to be very nice so I may go with those unless you folks can come up with an alternate source for the Michelins. Thx again, Thom.

           RE:MISC:   Tire side-wall patch/repair. posted by Dale on 10/9/2009 at 6:08:24 AM
Beware that the 28 x 1 1/2 Schwalbe Marathons of about four years ago should not be operated at the rated 80 psi. Multiple users (including me) report blowoffs. There seems to be no problem at 50 psi.

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