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English Roadsters

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AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by: Robert Buhler on 9/27/2009 at 6:34:23 PM
Any idea on year or name of this bike? serial# B8159 I can e-mail pictures if needed Brakes are controled by bars and not cables.

RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Steve on 9/28/2009 at 1:44:03 AM
Robert, you will have to forward a picture (or two), but as a random guess I'm going to say....Hercules !

I've probably got a 50-1 chance of being right !


RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Robert on 9/28/2009 at 5:39:10 AM
check my photo bucket for some pictures


RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Steve on 9/28/2009 at 8:48:59 AM
Forgive me Robert, but I'm not the Ted Crane of computer logistics, does one need some type of URL in order to get access to your photobucket.
My odds have just gone out to 100-1

RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Robert on 9/28/2009 at 10:15:43 AM
hope this works


RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Robert on 9/28/2009 at 10:23:26 AM
bugman1116@yahoo.com if photo bucket is not working i can send you some pics.

RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Matthew on 9/28/2009 at 11:08:29 AM

Not a clue about the manufacturer, unless someone recognises the fork crown or the unusual seat stay end.

The mudguards and frame angles look pre-war but that is a long shot.

Matthew - just plain guessing

RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Steve on 9/28/2009 at 1:32:16 PM
It was almost a Hercules !

Offset steerer "rear brake" down rod, chrome fork crown (but with a recess in it, the Hercules I've had have all had "solid" chromed fork crowns). Quadrant gear changer mid 30's ?
Missed the seat stay end, and the hub, I'm now going to have another look !
I'm presuming it's got 40/32 spoke wheels.



RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Steve on 9/28/2009 at 1:51:07 PM
What size wheels/tyres and what markings are on the hub ?
The chainwheel is familiar, but I can't put it down to one particular make of bike.
As Matthew has mentioned....the fork crown design is possibly the biggest clue on show here, if it had an "S" or a "T" or three lines etc etc, the game would be over.


RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Robert on 9/28/2009 at 3:21:25 PM
Front wheel says phillips made in england rear says sturmey archer patent but no date mark.

RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Robert on 9/28/2009 at 3:23:36 PM
tires are bates war grade 28 x 1 1/2

RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Steve on 9/28/2009 at 3:48:46 PM
Brake rod arrangement below handlebars (side of steerer) could also point towards Phillips.

RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by Chris on 9/30/2009 at 2:20:53 PM
Would love to see a close up picture of the Bates war grade tires!

RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:three spd SA England bicycle posted by chris on 9/30/2009 at 5:37:13 PM
BSA? Thats my guess

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AGE / VALUE:Brake pad source? posted by: ronp6 on 9/27/2009 at 11:36:58 AM
Sorry that this an Austrian bike and is a little off topic but I need a front rod brake shoe that rubs on the top of the tire to stop from a Puch European market bike. I have it working but for the pad or shoe. Iis rectangular and 1 3/16 at the widest part of the dovetail 1 5/8" long. I was hoping some English bike use the same design or had a suggestion for materials for making one. I appreciate any help

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brake pad source? posted by Matthew on 9/27/2009 at 1:30:40 PM
Hi there,

All the German bikes, which I have seen, with spoon brakes just have a steel spoon rubbing onto the top of the front tyre, no brake block. Is this the style of brake you are talking about?

Matthew - non-stop

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brake pad source? posted by ronp5 on 9/27/2009 at 2:10:14 PM

Thanks. I wish mine were like that. It has a steel pad holder for a dovetailed insert like a rim pad only very wide. I assume it was a rubber block. The bike is a Steyr/Puch Waffenrod if that helps anyone. Ron

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brake pad source? posted by ronp6 on 9/28/2009 at 8:22:50 AM
Norm at Harris wins with the suggestion of cutting a piece from the sidewall of a car tire. Smart guy! Thanks, Ron

RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Brake pad source? posted by Chris on 9/28/2009 at 6:05:35 PM
That will work! yes

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:19?? Raleigh Tourist posted by: Pete F on 9/27/2009 at 9:27:24 AM
Guys - I need some help please to put a date on my Raleigh Tourist. I've just put some pictures up on 'Reader's Rides' - the folder has come up named 'Pete' - not quite what I intended but it does the job.

Reason I need to know is that I just got hold of a stainless steel rear rim so I have the chance to return it to original spec.. At the moment it has an almost certainly original s/s front, but the rear, and the hub gear, date from 1963.

I'm fairly sure it is from around the WW2 period, possibly one of those 'short supply' transitional models, but I have two possible hubs to lace in to the new rim, a 1937 K series (K7) and a 48 AW, and I 'd like to get it as right as possible.

Most of the characteristics tally with the 1939 catalogue - swept back bars, non-clamped front brake shoes, pump clamped to seat tube etc., but of course these could have been repeated in 1946 or 7. By the 1948 catalogue the Tourist had changed quite a bit - different bars, brazed on pump pegs etc. The serial number is somewhat indistinct - please see the photos - it could be 27813R or possibly a miss-stamped B.

So, opinions please - which would be the most authentic hub to go with? If anyone knows any defining details that would date this machine I'd be most grateful.

I'm still cleaning it up by the way, so please don't be too harsh about condition - it was the filthiest bike I've ever seen.

Thanks in anticipation,

Pete F.


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:19?? Raleigh Tourist posted by Matthew on 9/27/2009 at 1:38:15 PM
Hi Pete F,

Looks pre-war to me so here's an idea; if you want reliable ride-ability then put the '37 hub in and use AW internals as K-series are not as robust. If you are looking for originality, hmmm, well go for the K-series and ride carefully. Or you could look for a pre-war AW?

Its a great bike, good looking, and nicely original.

Matthew - on the phone>>>>>>>>>>>>

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:19?? Raleigh Tourist posted by Matthew on 9/27/2009 at 1:38:19 PM
Hi Pete F,

Looks pre-war to me so here's an idea; if you want reliable ride-ability then put the '37 hub in and use AW internals as K-series are not as robust. If you are looking for originality, hmmm, well go for the K-series and ride carefully. Or you could look for a pre-war AW?

Its a great bike, good looking, and nicely original.

Matthew - on the phone>>>>>>>>>>>>

RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:19?? Raleigh Tourist posted by Chris on 9/30/2009 at 4:51:27 PM
I have one of these! (in a clothes closet of all places!) stripped/ blasted and in bare grey steel.
a 26 inch frame, for 28 inch wheels with the fork and backstay. The other frame and fork went missing from the bead blaster's shop! "No you only brought in the one frame!" and I know I was doing two at once!
In Nottingham, these stoped in the 1950's (mine is from 1956) and and in South Africa they made them for awhile after that but they stoped making the 26 inch frame before they ended production of the rod brake roadsters there as well.

I remember talking to somebody at the factory and they admitted to having the tooling and they could start up production again of the 26 inch frame model but they wanted an order of 500 bikes. Didn't offer any unless you placed an order but, they could do it.
Basically the world famous rod brake roadster got standardized into a 22 or a 24 inch frame model with 28 inch wheels.

And so the 26 inch frame and the larger still 28 inch frame like the Phillips Imperial are rare.

Your bike is very likely prewar and I totally love your rims you have on this! That's solid quality!
I have a book by Ernest Cole on South Africa and shown is an African Raleigh or Phillips bike and the wheel rims and especially the tire shown is different from what we see. The African bikes had special colors, single speeds, and unique rims and tires.

Sounds like your bike is from the 1930's

Raleigh has special, and totally marvelous and magical stainless steel wheel spokes in these bikes with "R" stamped on the spoke heads. When that stoped I am not sure. I don't think I have ever seen a Stainless steel Westwood pattern rim in 28 or 26 for that matter but in Westrick or Endrick they did in those.

I love the rear carrier racks on these bikes there was a wide variety to choose from Frank Ashby and Sons ltd, Brooks made awesome steel racks, rear racks with Brooks all leather pannier boxes. I love the Brooks leather saddle on this!

gears? You could buy a two speed Sturmey- Archer rear hub from Hillary Stone who sells from the U.K.
Hillary is on e- bay with his stuff
Go with the pre war a.w as the K series is not nearly as serviceable as parts are rare.

I love the long steel cranks on this bike!

I have had the a.w. the f.w., the f.m. the 3 and 4 speed dynohub combination hubs in mine both alloy and steel shell hubs. The alloy shell hubs were never laced into these 28 inch wheel roadster bikes but I did it and didn't have one come apart but to be safe stick with the steel shell hubs and your bike is likely before they introduced the alloy shell Sturmey- Archer hubs anyways.

The rare (as all heck) bottom bracket spindle cups offered on e- bay right now the sell is from Greece will fit your bike and some more searching for a "08gcc" spindle
will make the bike ride like new.

A re- built rear hub or a n.o.s. new condition old vintage hub with the bearing cups racesd in new condition will make it fly

a new condition front hub as well

new old stock headset cups as well.

But that is pouring money into something you might not want to do.

Anyways, the parts are out there on e- bay and old shops still have them, collectors have and hoard then till death do they part with them. look on e- bay and buy something wonderful from Hillary Stone and enjoy it!

My 26 inch frame bike was in the same box as my 24 inch 1960 Raleigh tourist the same box that had the hole in the bottom and while I lost parts to the 1960 bike the 26 inch frame bike made it to Texas ok, it scratched up the paint on the 24 inch bike.

Are the thimble fork crowns in the fork of your bike the same thimble fork crowns as in the later produced 1960's onwards models?- as I am needing a set of thimbles for the forks. I wonder if they made these in two sizes. I suspect the older bikes used slightly larger parts in the older forks.

It's worth it to fit new parts such as cups, spindles the bike rides like new

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:19?? Raleigh Tourist posted by Pete F on 10/3/2009 at 10:19:44 AM
Guys -
Thanks for your encouragement - I think a winter strip down/rebuild with the 37 shell, AW innards sounds good.

Pete F

Champion 26 inch posted by Miles Waller on 12/7/2009 at 4:30:04 PM
Looking for a fork

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Trophy Brand? Sears and Roebuck decal on it posted by: Chris on 9/27/2009 at 8:33:36 AM
Just picked up a Trophy brand english 3 speed. Actually it says made in France on it. Bike is complete. I was wanting to use the frame for a fixy bike I want to build. But before I tear this old girl apart I want to know if I should or not.


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Trophy Brand? Sears and Roebuck decal on it posted by David on 9/28/2009 at 5:12:45 AM
I've never heard of Trophy as a Sears brand, but you never know. Is the Made in France sticker on the frame? Or on some component? (pic link doesn't work)

RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Trophy Brand? Sears and Roebuck decal on it posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/28/2009 at 5:41:13 AM
Extract the url from the "link"...


Interesting machine.... If not for the Made In France sticker... I would say Raleigh manufactured....


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Buy and outboard motor from Sears and ROW BACK!

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Trophy Brand? Sears and Roebuck decal on it posted by Matthew on 9/28/2009 at 11:14:12 AM
Well Ditto with David, which means this isn't a common machine. Looks small framed and rather neat. Save it from fixie-dom and find another to strip down.

Matthew - No cheese eating surrender monkeys here (an no offence intended)

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AGE / VALUE:cyclops bicycle posted by: dave on 9/27/2009 at 5:18:22 AM
i have a older cyclop 12 speed road bike it was made in vernon bc canada it also says it was hand painted it seems to be in great shape. dont know much about these.i cant seem to realy target a good web site where they have these bikes. so if anyone knows any thing about them i would like to know what they would be worth.

thanks and take care

RE:AGE / VALUE:cyclops bicycle posted by David on 9/27/2009 at 7:42:24 AM
Custom made frames seem to sell for less than popular brand names, so if you want to keep it you're in luck; you have a good bike cheap. Post some pictures.

RE:AGE / VALUE:cyclops bicycle posted by Matthew on 9/27/2009 at 8:33:36 AM
Hi Dave,

You would be best off posting your note on the Vintage Lightweight discussion board. They will be better equipped to help you.

Matthew - vintage and lightweight

RE:AGE / VALUE:cyclops bicycle posted by Warren on 9/27/2009 at 1:05:54 PM
Cyclops was a very respectable custom marque here in Canada. Mike Mulholland built these frames but died quite some time ago. A collectible bike north of the 49th parallel.

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BF6 front KB5 rear 1935 brake hubs posted by: Matt on 9/25/2009 at 11:33:21 PM
I have a 1935 Raleigh with KB5 rear hub and BF6 front hub brakes.

The performance of the brakes is now very poor and would like to replace the pads. The only drum brakes I can find online are BF/C parts. Are they compatible?


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BF6 front KB5 rear 1935 brake hubs posted by Matthew on 9/27/2009 at 8:38:14 AM
Hi Matt,

I cannot say for sure but if you can strip your brakes out and take your shoes to a supplier then you can compare one with the other. Or alternatively go to a good motor spares supplier and ask to have your shoes relined. Riveted or bonded they can put new friction surfaces on your shoes. I have done this on commercial vehicles and I knwo a great number of car brake shoes are sold on 'exchange' whereby the old shoes go back for remanufacture.


Matthew - going for a brake (and short enough already)

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:���BF6 front KB5 rear 1935 brake hubs posted by Matt on 9/28/2009 at 6:17:43 AM
Cheers Matthew. I'll give that a go

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AGE / VALUE:Western Flyer posted by: wakie on 9/25/2009 at 11:01:46 PM
Can anyone give me more information about my bike? Girls Western Flyer, Made in England, 3 speed, chrome headlamps, number (serial?) is 2905. Would really like to know the year the bike was made and whether or not it has any value. The rust is recent -- I had it outside last winter. Thanks! (working on posting a picture...)

RE:AGE / VALUE:Western Flyer posted by wakie on 9/25/2009 at 11:26:25 PM
here are two photos of the bike


RE:AGE / VALUE:Western Flyer posted by David on 9/27/2009 at 7:46:42 AM
Raleigh-built for Western Auto stores. Check the rear hub for the two-digit year; bike built shortly after. Value is probably a little lower than a similar Raleigh; $100 or a bit more, most likely. Cool headlight.

RE:AGE / VALUE:Western Flyer posted by wakie on 9/27/2009 at 11:13:05 AM
Thank you for the info, David. I found the number 62 on the hub, had no idea to look there! Cheers

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by: brian on 9/24/2009 at 1:00:42 PM
i recently bought an old english three speed with a headbadge that says "reynolds"
i have found very little on this bike brand unless it is somehow related to the current bike tube manufacturer.
any info would be great.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by Chris on 9/24/2009 at 4:17:22 PM
Would you be so kind as to share some pictures of this bike.

is it a mens or ladies frame, what color, what type oand brand of seat, what are the componet parts made by?

Would love to see it.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by brian on 9/24/2009 at 8:57:33 PM
sturmey archer 3 speed hub, 26"x1 3/8" dunlop rims.made in england. utility crank. seat is reynolds, headbadge says reynolds.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by brian on 9/24/2009 at 9:12:47 PM
here is a pic


RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by jj on 9/25/2009 at 5:01:51 PM
Reynolds tubing could indicate a handmade 3-speed.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by brian on 9/26/2009 at 3:50:58 PM
i thought it may be handmade, but wasnt sure if a handmade bike would have a reynolds headbadge, or if reynolds was a small bicycle company that someone may have been familiar with.
thanks for everything so far, if i get a better pic of the headbadge i will post it. in the mean time keep it coming


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by brian on 9/26/2009 at 3:51:01 PM
i thought it may be handmade, but wasnt sure if a handmade bike would have a reynolds headbadge, or if reynolds was a small bicycle company that someone may have been familiar with.
thanks for everything so far, if i get a better pic of the headbadge i will post it. in the mean time keep it coming


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by sam on 9/26/2009 at 7:37:23 PM
Did it say Reynolds or Raynal?

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by brian on 9/28/2009 at 1:21:46 AM
it says reynolds on the headbadge. the date on the rear hub says 54. the front hub is an oil lubed and stamped "bayliss-wiley". it also has a drive side specific locknut. the botom bracket is oil lubed, cottered cranks.

at this point i am torn as to how much i should dump into the bike. my original plan was to upgrade a few parts, wheels, bottom bracket, etc. but the oil lubed hubs and bottom bracket has an appeal. the front wheel is locked up and i dont know if its salvageable.

is it worth the work or would i be better off replacing these things? the rear hub feels rough but i know sturmey archer hubs and it should be fine... what to do...?

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:reynolds bicycle company? posted by Matthew on 9/28/2009 at 11:18:30 AM
Save it Brian,

And be glad you did. You might be the owner of a rare-ish machine. The front wheel may only need bearings stripped and re-greased. The rear hub will live to see another day too.

Matthew - save the oddballs like me.

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Powder coating rims? posted by: Hal on 9/23/2009 at 4:53:51 PM
Has anyone tried powder coating rims?
I have a Raleigh DL 1 that the rims are rusty but straight.
Was wondering if anyone has tried powder coating rims and with what results.


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Powder coating rims? posted by Chris on 9/23/2009 at 5:43:41 PM
It chips. That's what happens. I advise against it.


RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Powder coating rims? posted by Matthew on 9/25/2009 at 10:03:39 AM
As I know there is an issue with stickers not sticking to powder coating then maybe having a braking surface coated in PC would be a bad idea?

Matthew - take a brake.

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AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by: Christopher on 9/23/2009 at 12:31:32 PM
Take a look at the Brooks England website. I just about about threw up my breakfast whern I read that some of the Brooks bags are made in China.

the 2 large bags the glen brook and the other one are made in China

the website has been overhauled gone are the machines spitting out the springs

they took down the old site and put up a new web site and it is not complete and this makes no sense to me. it's not as good as the last site and why put up something that is not complete?

it's worth reading the Brooks comments on why the saddle bags and only the bags not the seats are made in china.

interesting recommended reading

RE:AGE / VALUE: PLEASE RAISE HELL!!Visit the site, Please E- mail Brooks your comments posted by Chris on 9/23/2009 at 4:33:28 PM
Please visit the "Brooks England" web site. find the section " bags" go to the Millbrook section, read the crap replies from the company for yourself and PLEASE E- MAIL YOUR COMMENTS TO THE BROOKS COMPANY.

The subject is: the reintroduced Brooks Millbrook and the Glenbrook bags are being made in China.

Lame ass excuse (s) are:
"China is delivering the High Quality stitching these days."

"We had to go to China to get the high quality Brooks deserves"

(And with this one, I am struggling to keep breakfast and lunch down and this one really pisses me off!)

"You should see our suppliers factory before expressing negative comments about the Brooks Millbrook bags"

also and interesting footnote to this is,
The blog has them on the defensive about the use of leatherette or more specifically, about the use of faux leather. The ORIGINAL BAG PRODUCTS from Brooks DID USE THE FAUX LEATHER.

However and it is awesome and magical that the responses from Brooks Customers are overlooking this fact BECAUSE THEY ARE LONGING FOR THE TIMES BEFORE THE 1950'S WHEN BROOKS MADE THE BAGS IN ALL LEATHER.

So Brooks is having to remind folks: "hey, we are just reintroducing the faux leather these were originally made in after 1950."

Brooks is telling us they don't have the tooling machinery, and labor they can't find somebody to stitch up a simple bag!

this selection of two bags is not anything a basic shoe repair shop 's personelle can't do.

Stitching is not rocket science and here they tell us we had to outsource the work to China.

Also, please mention (if you care to) the subject of removing the old site and not replacing it with fully working new one. Gone are the trips thru the past history and patent books back to 1908
Gone are the snippits of actual footage of the factory spring making machine.

ask them what was wrong with the old web site? why not just update it not ruin and gut all the good work, time and effort that had made the old web site so great and let them now what you think of the new one.

In closing, Brooks has their old files and ways to contact former employees who could be called back to work on the company's re-introduced line of bags. Using labor that has not forgotten how to stitch, sew, and assemble these simple bags.

They are saying that they "are still searching for u.k. suppliers" and that is hopeful.

How difficult (or expensive) is it to find and assemble factory tooling for bag making?

please take a moment and e- mail your thoughts to the folks behind the computer and behind the decision making desks at Brooks.

This really chills my blood! I have the sickening feeling that more tragic insults are on the way ending up with Saddle production being started up in China or Taiwan like what happened with Sturmey- Archer/ Sunrace.
and today, September 23 rd, 2009 I predict that more products will be outsourced from England to this "suppliers factory in China"
I sure hope not, but I smell it in the wind.

Brooks may be happy with a suppliers factory in China but I know the vintage bicycle (Vintage British bicycle) community would not be.

Brooks is like the cornerstone, the last remaining breath of life,

It's highly regarded, sought after, so well loved.

The Brooks saddles, their bags, the Carradice bags (another company) but still.
The fine leather saddles so loved the world over, I won't go on.
Please e- mail your feelings.
Thank You!


RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: PLEASE RAISE HELL!! posted by Chris on 9/23/2009 at 4:46:31 PM
One of the things that bothers me so much is
How can a thing so very British, something so intertwined in the soul of things British, as a vintage British bicycle's tool bag be made in China?

China reminds me of "The Borg" from Star Trek. They assimilate everything, everybody, peoples jobs ,every damned thing from everyday life.

Look, China takes care of China. remember that.

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by sam on 9/23/2009 at 5:45:41 PM
and who do you think Taught the British to make TEA...

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by Kevin on 9/23/2009 at 6:38:22 PM
The truth is, Brooks can't find many Englishmen willing to work for 50 cents an hour.

RE:AGE / VALUE: Brooks England website update posted by mark on 9/23/2009 at 11:46:54 PM
All of you are quite right to deplore and protest Brooks for this...i myself & i am sure many of you have tried hard for years to buy American & British. That said, let us be careful not to blame China or Chnese people themselves, it's more a function of the bad side of globalization based on (relatively) cheap petroleum. Let's hope Brooks realizes their error, let's keep riding our bikes and let's watch carefully how and where we spend our dollars and pounds....hopefullly we can try to spend a bit more for local and national products across the board, not just in the bike realm

RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Brooks England website update posted by Chris on 9/24/2009 at 4:52:19 PM
It's magical because it's a British bicycle tool bag. These things are magical and when it comes from China it not magical.

The C.J. Adie bicycle bell the bells were also marked Flying Scot on the bell, when they closed down the factory, scrapped the machinery, transferred production to so far away land and sold cheap - *** garbage quality bells that don't sound anything like the older better stuff even if it does have kids cartoon pictures on the bells the soul was lost and the product we are offered now, is not magical anymore. It's not worth buying.

It sure as heck is not worth searching for, not worth my time to dig for in old shops in bad neighborhoods, not worth bothering with in the future , nobody will be collecting them.
The product now has lost it's MOJO it's soul, it's not special anymore. It's lost it's sexyness, it's appeal, the look of love , that's was on it's face........... is gone.

If it were a woman it has to have enough sexy pull to make you go and cheat on your wife and not care if you get caught.
It has you waiting to see her again. Thinking about her all day at the office. Not the clients, not the commission, just wanting to get back home to her. It does strange things to ones mind.
The book that you can't put down because it is so good.

The food and atmosphere that is so special you drive across town and out of your way, or across the state to taste again.

When you gut out the quality and believe it or not quality extends and envelopes the name of the country it was made in. Shoes are magical because they are Italian. Cars because they are German. Cars that were magical were once , (but not anymore) American.

Pinapple is awesome because it's from Hawaii. The crap they serve today is from Costa Rica and Indonesia.

When a restaurant you love that has awesome steak and good service changes ownership, the service stinks the place is dirty and you sit there and moan aloud and sorrow and just to give them the chance you still sit and order and they bring you the worst steak of your life with the same high price but it's aweful. I ask "Oh, Gee When did you change hands?" And you make a note NEVER to eat there again.

Brooks has enough magic in the moonlight and mojo in the name and quality but when it's made in China coupled with us expected to pay the costs as usual but the soul is gone, it's NOW JUST A PIECE OF JUNK I CAN GET ANYPLACE AT WALMART AND YES, I HAVE SEEN THESE EXCAT BAGS IN THE CYCLING SECTION AT WAL MART! that magic is not there anymore like wet fireworks. I am left disappointed.


RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: No Chinese BAIT AND SWITCH FOR ME, MA! posted by Chris on 9/24/2009 at 5:02:10 PM
Shopping at Brooks Brothers ( no relation between the two companies) One sees the influx of goods and products and items (yeah, items is the proper way to word it) you see the stuff is now made in China stuff that used to come from Italy or elsewhere is now from China and they quietly have swithced it and one good reason is to get upset is the price is as high as ever, the quality is poor like what you find at Walmart and the label is what is the common finds, what the poor masses get and all that they get.

I asked what is this? I can get this same quality at walmart. What do think, Why do you think I am here?

I left the store. Get your argument over the hill of their rehearsed objections and get your voice heard.

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by Kevin on 9/24/2009 at 5:47:51 PM
I noticed the same thing while looking through an L.L. Bean catalog. Almost everything used to advertised as "Made in Maine" or "Made in the U.S.A." Now most of it is listed as "Imported." The last pair of Clarks of England shoes that I bought weren't even made in England, and I could really tell the difference. The English ones lasted for years and years; the new pair were shot within 12 months.

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by kenneth on 9/25/2009 at 8:16:12 PM
The Chinese can make good quality products too. I am Chinese and live in Asia (although I am not from Mainland China) and I have seen and currently use good quality Chinese-branded and made products, though these are rare.

What you get in the west is determined by the multinational corporations in the first world countries who will exploit Chinese workers to create products for maximum profit to the consumers disadvantage. The true Satan is not us Chinese or the mainland Chinese worker, it is the Capitalist Captain of Industry (regardless of ethnicity).

To be fair to Brooks, I have a Glenbrook purchased last year. I assume it is made in China. However, if I compare it to my original 1960s English-made Raleigh saddle pouch (probably made as OEM product by Brooks?), the quality of stitching and material is equal if not better. Unfortunately the Glenbrook is not made in leather. However, those limited edition Glenbrooks in leather, are almost double in price!

To please traditionalists who want authenticity at any price, I think Brooks should have English cowhide leather saddlebags handmade in England by Englishmen. This should be priced fairly, to pay the artisan the wages he deserves and the company its profit for an authentic, high quality product that pleases the buyer.

If the artisan can prove pure Anglo Saxon lineage since 1800, a higher premium should be paid since that reflects the true authenticity of the article. Just kidding... :)


RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by Kenneth on 9/26/2009 at 2:57:51 AM
I should add that I too am of the opinion that Brooks is English and should stay that way- I love their products, particularly the saddles for their quality and traditional styling.

But these advantages are at risk. Once demand goes up, we will be able to find identical copies in Shenzhen, China. Like Italian handbags, they will come in various grades of quality, the topmost ones may be better than the originals. And all will be sold at a fraction of the originals prices.

The only discernable difference will be product improvement - I've examined a fake Prada handbag of exquisite quality and beauty, as beautiful as an original example of a similar model I held in my other hand. Even the zips and tags were faithful copies. The owner proudly pointed out the only difference to me:

The fake had a small discreet zip pocket expertly sewn into the inside of the bag to hold coins or such.

Brooks manufactures in China at great risk.

RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by JS on 9/26/2009 at 9:41:13 PM
The reason why Brooks or any other manufacturer would outsource to Taiwan, Mainland China or India is quite plain to me. These are countries where bicycles, and roadsters in particular, are still used as transport and not as play things. Therefore the bike park of these countries is very large and the collective corporate infrastructure for supplying parts to produce and maintain this fleet is equally massive.

So if you wanted to make bags, and your current supplier wasn't up to it, you go to where the bag makers are: In this case they went to China.

As a side note, Taiwan in particular has for many years now been the hub of bicycle manufacture and innovation. And of course the Taiwanese firms conduct most of the manufacturing on the Mainland. The quality is top notch.



RE:AGE / VALUE:Brooks England website update posted by Bryan on 9/30/2009 at 6:38:49 AM
Chris, I completely understand and share your frustration with this. One thing you mentioned was seeing identical looking bags while shopping in the cycling section at Wal Mart.

If you are concerned with protecting domestic business concerns (or businesses located in England or the rest of Europe), I humbly suggest that you stop shopping at Wal Mart, as they are the biggest offenders of outsourcing to manufacturers outside of the United States under the guise of offering "cheap" products. Of course, this only hurts us in the end, as we lost good manufacturing jobs and people can't even afford to buy these cheap goods that once were produced locally.

I speak from experience as the former general manager of a company who supplied Wal Mart, only to be driven out of business when they stopped buying from us in order to save a few cents to an overseas competetor.

I won't shop at Wal Mart. Even though I am currently unemployed (due to the aforementioned disagreement with Wal Mart, I always seek out smaller local businesses that are struggling to compete against these retail monsters.

By the way, I mean nothing against the Chinese, I just think that everyone should support their local neighbors as best they can before importing goods that can be made just as well close to home.

RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Wal Mart posted by Chris on 9/30/2009 at 2:43:37 PM
I can't find what I want at Walmart anyways. I resent the "great value" line of items edging out the well known and well loved products I have used for decades I don't like their produce at all, don't like the aggrivation after a days work, don't like the long lines, hate having to take food to the jewlery counter for a far faster checkout where they don't have a scale and can't weigh the produce I do buy. The local H.E.B. is not that far down the street and H.E.B. has pride in being local and it has a place in the soul of Texas.
I like the shiny clean floors at Walmart and little else.
My punishment for shopping at Walmart because it's across the street from work is I miss out on the better selection of H.E.B. The Schwinn Sting Ray bicycle was briefly sold at Wal Mart and somebody pulled it and it's not re- appeared. (The 1960's Schwinn Sting Ray copy was made in China) It is interesting to see the Schwinn line of bikes sold at Walmart. A tragic developement that would have Frank V. Schwinn and Ignaz before him, scowling and especially, cursing on for 29 pages of rants about the chain stores and shoddy quality.

As for Brooks outsourcing the bags to China I am too upset and can't see straight to write anymore on the subject.

RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Wal Mart is my classroom posted by Chris on 9/30/2009 at 2:54:50 PM
I saw the 1920's Iver Johnson truss rod bicycle pop up and re- appear in some god forsaken foreign country where it was being re- released and sold. Basically somebody came over here and bought things like plans and tooling or stole it and made it without permission plans or licence.

Fire King Jade-ite mixing bowls made in China too, another thing. I guess the reason why I am in Walmart is to study history to see what is being made where and notice "the whatever happened to" of this or that company's product. I guess Walmart is my classroom so to speak. Interesting to Keep an eye on this nasty behemoth and what it's up to. I grew up near K- marts world headquarters in Troy, Mi studied the decline of Franks Nusery and Crafts and studying the decay of things I love in general.

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BSA Paratrooper Bike posted by: Tom on 9/21/2009 at 10:16:22 PM
I found a WW11 BSA Paratrooper bike and need a few parts for it. Anyone have a BSA saddle, chainset, rod pedals, grips. The bike is ridable as is with the non original parts on it. I want to restore it this winter and need some parts. There are some placesonline where I could get parts.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BSA Paratrooper Bike posted by Matthew on 9/22/2009 at 10:48:56 AM
Hi Tom,

You will be hard pushed to find parts. How did you find the bike? If you are in the UK it usually takes in excess of 600 to find one to restore.

Well done in finding one. You might be able to get the pedals made if you can find some one with a pair as patterns or you could use pedals with no rubbers and an end cap to give the (non-folding) effect.

Matthew - Busy Short Arnsa!

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BSA Paratrooper Bike posted by Tom on 9/23/2009 at 8:30:30 AM
I am in Canada and bought it at a farm auction. I got it cheap. It is in good shape, has been painted, a lot of the original olive/green shows through. My friend has one being restored and I can make the pedals using his as a design. I was at a local car show 2 weeks ago and a guy had a BSA Paratrooper with the twin downtube seat post, very early model. It was being restored. There are a few in my area, I know of 6 of them all not for sale. I also have a lead on 2 more unrestored ones if I can talk the guy into selling them. They are original and in good shape.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BSA Paratrooper Bike posted by Bryan on 9/30/2009 at 6:42:33 AM
Wow, Canada! These are rare birds, but it seems that there is an unusually high concentration around you. Neat.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BSA Paratrooper Bike posted by RICKY on 10/15/2009 at 1:09:51 PM

RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:BSA Paratrooper Bike posted by julian on 2/2/2011 at 12:47:46 PM
hi how much do you want for your paratrooper ? please send information on jultajess@gmail.com i am from malta . thankyou

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MISC:One of our projects is finished! posted by: Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 9/19/2009 at 6:02:01 AM
Ya know how you feel when you find an old steel fulcrum sleeve in a parts drawer?
You know you are going to use it on your commuter 3-speed because it will never fail.
Well, we’re getting them in Alloy now!
So next time one of those plastic $3.00 sleeves leaves you with only 3rd gear, remember it didn’t have to happen.


RE:MISC:One of our projects is finished! posted by Chris on 9/21/2009 at 6:28:17 PM
I love it! Bravo!

I always searched out the old steel ones like they were magical gems, saved and revered them, collected them up and saved them.

Yes, you do see so many of the plastic ones disentrigate and fail, and when the plastic ones break you are stuck in 3 rd gear!
Very good idea, Vin!
i logged on and bang zoom there is the picture and before i even read what vin had to say I thought Oh, Neat! Cool!
Bravo! and it's "ChristopherRobin approved"

This part, was and still is, essential and it is ESSENTIAL on MILLIONS OF BICYCLES AROUND THE WORLD!

There are thousands and thousands of bikes with this very part broken.

Now just to hoist the flag and have spotlights attracting attention, to get everybody with an old 3 speed to think of and go to,

RE:MISC:One of our projects is finished! posted by Steve on 9/22/2009 at 12:20:07 PM
I have a "real" fulcrum sleeve sitting on the monitor shelf in front of me, I might be missing a pixel or two....but I won't lose my fulcrum !


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AGE / VALUE:importance of keeping threads protected posted by: Chris on 9/17/2009 at 6:09:36 PM
Had a bike shipped awhile back, it certainly could have been luckier. The front wheel must have fell over with the front wheel nuts off of the axle because the threads are mashed down on the one side where it must have fallen over long story short is -the nut will not thread on the axle now. lovely!'

this thwarts a reassembly until I fit a new axle in the front hub. lots of ways to mess it up and good! from poor shipping.
At work we see boxes that are reinforced with wood inside the cardboard while I am not sure if thats a good idea for shipping a bicycle it is interesting that you never see anything but a plain cardboard box used to ship a bike. if the parts were placed in a bag with padding around the bag and it tied to the frame or better yet, in a seperate box that is taped to the larger outer box then small parts would not have fallen through the hole in the bottom of the box and I wonder how that hole got there it must be interesting at U.P.S. to see all the parts that come out of boxes and wind up loose on the conveyors rattling about. Does U.P.S. have a lost and found of stuff in a bin someplace?

Actually, I knew better that to request shipping with U.P.S. in the first place.

RE:AGE / VALUE:importance of keeping threads protected posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/18/2009 at 2:50:35 AM
Cardboard???? ;-) Yes... being a packaging professional, I hadda throw that in. You see... "Cardboard" is really a very specific material.... used in the manufacture of... playing cards.

Now... as to most "Shippers" (i.e. - "Boxes"), they are usually constructed of Corrugated Paperboard. As to how protective that can be... well... I've designed structures out of the aforementioned that you can park a car on.

Now... that being said, PACKAGING and PACKING, while related, are complete and separate from one another. You could have quite simply, the best PACKAGING in the world but if you're not on the ball when you are PACKING something with it... that can be problematic.

Now... UPS... they're part of the DISTRIBUTION process... and us Packaging Development Folks are always trying to come up with PACKAGING that will withstand the DISTRIBUTION CYCLE. 99.9% of the time, we do a great job. If in fact, the package would never need be opened once it arrived, heck, we would have a perfect record.

As it were... and just for reference... in many cases, if you want to put a package through the acid test.... ship it from point A to point B via UPS. If it survives that... it will in all liklihood survive pretty much anything else.

Sorry to hear of your incident. Yes.... threads need to be protected... ESPECIALLY the threads on our machines. It's not like you can run down to ACE Hardware and get a die to chase them with unfortunately.

Now THAT would be something invaluable to us... and I wouldn't be surprised if Vince has one... a Raleigh screw plate set... hell... even a Whitworth screw plate set... albeit that can probably still be found readily in the UK.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Yep... I'm one screwed up Packaging Professional

RE:AGE / VALUE:importance of keeping threads protected posted by Kevin on 9/18/2009 at 4:20:49 AM
I no longer buy bicycles that have to be shipped, because very few people know how to properly wrap, box and ship one. It's not like shipping a pair of shoes. I have gotten bicycles with absolutely no protective packing, wheels and fenders banging against the frame, pieces rattling around in the bottom of the box ... you name it. In addition, UPS seems to like to throw bike boxes as far as they will go, rather than carry them. My solution is simple -- I either buy locally or at bike shows. It's better for me and better for the bikes.


RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:importance of keeping threads protected posted by Randonneur on 9/18/2009 at 10:17:12 PM
Well, you'd have to be crazy to mail a bike at times, it seems that way.

I had an axle and it had messed up threads too, while trying to put a nut on it!

RE:AGE / VALUE:importance of keeping threads protected posted by Matthew on 9/20/2009 at 10:32:30 AM
I have shipped a few bikes and have spent hours preparing them. A Moulton I shipped to Germany with front wheel out and forks wrapped in polystyrene, corrugated paper and more corrugated paper, then parcel tape and the handle bars wrapped separate too. You cannot do too much to wrap a bike for shipping. Air freighted bikes should have soft tyres too (or so I am told). I have never used UPS but we have received items from them, the local driver is a good chap.

Bad packaging is the seller's fault and you should get recompense. Tardy sellers will just want the item gone and consider clear labelling outside of their remit.

Matthew - a fussy packer

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AGE / VALUE:gerard debaets on e- bay posted by: chris on 9/17/2009 at 1:44:06 PM
A photo of the man, brings back memories for me, see lightweights section post

e- bay item # 270454785580

RE:AGE / VALUE:gerard debaets on e- bay posted by Christopher on 9/17/2009 at 2:05:38 PM
I did not get the book from the elderly daughter and I tried ! it had ALL of the press clippings from Europe, it was a big tome scrapbook of pictures I could have written a book with that info. Oh the folks at the Cafe in Detroit want to skin me alive and hang the carcas on the wall because I got the collection of bikes and not them but Mrs. Steiger liked me because I did not drink and was a clean, nice young man who didn't hang out in pubs.

so this e- bay photo makes me upset to see it. it was family history and after I got the bikes, tools, componet parts and the lathe I went to chase other things elsewhere and she got ill and moved away and died and I never got my hands on that material and it drives me crazy.

I am hoping that the rolls of undeveloped 35 mm film I have in my deposit box are the pix I took of the bikes after getting them. they got mixed up with slightly risque photos of somebody I know and now, developing them will be a hassle until I find a developer who will cooperate. (Hey, I was young and crazy) I have the bike photographs on one of the rolls of film. my advice is to label film properly and don't get it mixed up.

I got to see the book and it was neat to say the least. I have opened time capsules, seen awesome things and collections, gone speachless at what I have gone into and had the pleaseure of rooting through of classic bicycles treasure troves with the utter joy of going through it ALL BY MYSELF without any competitor collector there to get underway, and I have bought, sold, traded, ridden, enjoyed and gifted away some truly neat stuff.
It was fun, Oh My!

RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:gerard debaets on e- bay posted by chris on 9/17/2009 at 2:15:39 PM
She had gone into the local shop and was asking about rod brake bike parts, 28 inch tires and stuff. Never told them that her poppa was Girard Debaets who made a front fork for her after she got it caught and broke it in a trolly tram rail set in the roadway.

they were rude to her, and referred her to me, also becausae I had bought up the shops stock of old parts so business from then on was referred to me. "She is a nut and right up your alley chris perfect for you, go see her." Actually she was a joy to meet! spent 5 hours waxing the kitchen floors on her knees "old school"

Campagnolo parts not in the history books as this fellow was close to Tullio. I have to get this film developed and post the pictures of the one bike posted.

If one is persistent and keeps at it the great treasures will fall at your feet.

RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:gerard debaets on e- bay posted by Chris on 9/17/2009 at 2:28:35 PM
we race against time and don't know what it is we hold in our hands. an old bike one hears a name and doesn't immediately recognize the name. people die, move away, there has been floods, fires, squabbling heirs the shop is seized for back taxes, over zealous customs officials, rival collectors, cutthroat natures of the personalities involved,

I spent the whole day at this one place removing every tangled wheel out of the 2 nd storey room and sorted each wheel set what i wanted aside and then had to put them all back in the same room so it would be as it was a hedge from thieves who had gotten a ladder and gone in thru a window and gotten in and cut hole in the floor, dropped in to the shop below to rob it- (he shot at one of them he said) so the wheels had to block the upper room window. here, all those wheels burned up in the fire at the shop i was thinking of those wheels the other day. I pull up to visit and here he's at a new location down the street with a new b.m.w. out front and the old shop with the goodies still inside was all a burned out ruin as is much of the neighborhood but back in the day, they sold flying Scots whose riders trained on them to win the medals in the olympics. there were parts and things still there that I wanted and didn't get out in time.

the fact that there were still things there and not already bought up by others I don't know why.

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Replacement SA plastic parts posted by: David on 9/17/2009 at 10:09:23 AM
I replaced a disintegrating plastic pulley wheel and fulcrum clip with steel ones from


and they work very well. Say goodbye to SA's shoddy plastic.

RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:Replacement SA plastic parts posted by David on 9/17/2009 at 10:13:02 AM
Oops. You'll need to replace the apostrophe in the above URL with a tilde (the key to the left of the 1/! key). I forgot this site does that...

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