OldRoads.com > Discuss: English 3-speeds
Discuss: English Roadsters Scroll Down For Messages


I'm selling the OldRoads.com website.

I started the site in 1995 and sold my retail shop in April of this year.

I'm retiring from the bike business.

Here's a link to the eBay auction:



All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Search 18 years of ARCHIVES:  

Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc. has set up this discussion area for the sharing of vintage and custom bicycle information. Anyone may add their opinions to this forum, as long as they follow the rules outlined below. We are not responsible for incorrect or misleading advise which may appear here.


All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Vintage Bicycle Discussion Area

English Roadsters

Post a new topic, or click an existing topic below:

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1953 Portland 3-speed posted by: Bob on 9/10/2009 at 5:50:28 PM
I have uploaded a picture of the Portland, sucessfully I hope.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1953 Portland 3-speed posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/10/2009 at 7:47:21 PM
Interesting machine! Looking at the rear fender stay mounts, most definitely not a Raleigh manufactured frame. Looking at the brakes.... a bit of a puzzlement there as I was definitely expecting the older style with the lugged cable end.

Give her a good once over... some fresh rubber and perhaps a set of mudguards and you've got quite the unique ride for sure!

Thanks for posting up the pic.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Portland... PA? OR? ME?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1953 Portland 3-speed posted by Steve on 9/11/2009 at 3:41:35 AM
I'm confused by the handlebar stem arrangement, certain parts of it remind me of a Hercules Sports that I had.

Chainwheel is familiar (Williams ?), chainguard profile is also familiar (I've had two in recent times....one on a Hercules, and one on a long time mystery bike that eventually turned out to be a bike by Hobday in East London....and I don't think they had anything to do with Vindec, but I could be wrong).

Last time I saw a light like that....was on Fireball XL5 !

Steve - have fun

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1953 Portland 3-speed posted by Steve on 9/11/2009 at 3:52:09 AM
I meant to say that, certain parts of the bike remind me of a Hercules Sports that I had, not the handlebar stem arrangement, maybe I've been sniffing too much paint stripper, but the stem looks like it's got two giant sized Forth Bridge nuts securing things together !


           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   1953 Portland 3-speed posted by Warren on 9/11/2009 at 6:14:56 AM
The chainguard is identical to a 50's BSA example in my stash. I agree, the fork crown looks very Hercules.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by: Bob on 9/9/2009 at 5:35:46 PM
I would like to post a picture of the Portland 3-speed, however this site is telling me the file is too large. Not sure how to convert to post here. Any suggestions?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by Steve on 9/10/2009 at 1:14:38 AM
Right click on original photo in your files (menu should drop down), then click on "resize picture" to a smaller one.
It should "park" next to the original photo in your album (well it does in mine).
Choose the smaller photo in order to transfer to here.

I asked a similar question a couple of years ago....Larry Techno Roadster Strumming Ping-Pong Boneman came to the rescue, and explained it in the Queens English far better than I could ever wish for.

Hope this helps, I did wonder if the Portland had been produced by one of the Birmingham Brigade (I think it's called badge engineering), then released onto the open market via a small scale supplier.

I've come across similar before.

Out of curiosity, it would be interesting to see !



           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/10/2009 at 6:03:40 AM
Actually... you would need a windows "Powertoy" known as "Picture Resizer" to do that..... not to worry... it's free for the taking here:



It's an awesome tool actually... especially with the advent of these insane 10Mpixel (or more!) cameras out there these days!

Hope that helps!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - a thousand words will always download faster....

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by Steve on 9/10/2009 at 6:43:32 AM
Thanks Larry....I'd forgotten about that "megabit" !

I'd like to "right click" on this ancient groove panelled paint riddled door, I'm sanding down at the moment....

Steve - I'd rather watch paint dry !

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by Matthew on 9/10/2009 at 10:53:15 AM

Get the blow torch out; you know you want to. No NO Not indoors!

Matthew - nee naa nee naa!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by Keith Body on 9/10/2009 at 10:58:19 AM
Steve, bit late now, but hope the old door is (was) not lead based paint.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Portland 3-speed posted by Steve on 9/10/2009 at 12:58:42 PM
Something had been bothering me for 25 years, then it suddenly hit me the other day, it was the livingroom door !
I decided to attack it with the paint stripper left over from the Phillips tradebike job, my wife asked if I wouldn't mind doing it outside as she was trying to watch Coronation Street.
I duly obliged by removing the door as quietly as possible and carried it to my bike infested garage !
I won't go "on and on" about this, but I must admit that door stripping is very time consuming and very boring, but guess what....every cloud has a silver lining (hopefully).

Yesterday, I had the door outside resting on two trestles whilst I beavered away (minus blow torch, and I never even though about lead content) when I had a visitor.
He brought his bike around (Raleigh Courier) for me to change a worn cotter pin, when during a conversation he happened to mention that he'd got an old bike in his garage that hasn't moved for at least twenty odd years....turns out it's a Raleigh Lenton that could be a bit rough !

I almost choked on the lead vapours and burnt my fingers.

I'm going to have a look soon, and see if it wants a make up call.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   Old Roads calendar. posted by: Thom J. on 9/9/2009 at 9:11:36 AM
Any thoughts about doing an Old Roads calendar for 2010 or ? Would be a nice change from the TDF/"go-fast" road racing bike calendars I see for sale. Velo Vision had one but I don't know if they'll do one for 2010. Thom J.

           RE:MISC:   Old Roads calendar. posted by Matthew on 9/10/2009 at 10:54:29 AM
Ask Vin.

It sounds like a good idea.

Matthew - Mr October (fallen leaves)

           RE:RE:MISC:   Old Roads calendar. posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/10/2009 at 12:15:21 PM
Sounds like a fun idea. Perhaps cobble it together en-toto and hang on the site in PDF form. Make it up from pics submitted from the "General Membership" of their machines, etc.

I'm sure there would be no shortage of material to choose from.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - It's on the Calendar.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Portland 3-speed posted by: Bob Anderson on 9/8/2009 at 3:54:17 PM
Does anyone know anything about the Portland Bicycle Company in Birmingham, England?
I came across a 1953 Portland 3-speed that I plan on restoring, however I have never heard of this company and was hoping someone may have some knowledge of its history.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Portland 3-speed posted by chris on 9/8/2009 at 6:19:19 PM
I have never heard of it until now. There were a lot of companies and this is not unusual. We would need to see pictures to be of help and I would love to see a set of pictures of your find.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Portland 3-speed posted by Keith Body on 9/9/2009 at 11:32:44 AM
Hi Bob and Chris, I have never heard of this name, but there were several makers in Birmingham who would supply bikes unbranded, also on a trade order of 50 would supply any name you specify and varnish fix the transfers.
I just wrote "vanish", appropriate for some.
The chance of recognising the individual maker using standard components? unlikely.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Portland 3-speed posted by chris on 9/9/2009 at 2:28:34 PM
yes, unlikely.
Keith is right on the money, and sharp as a tack. Birmingham was up to their ears in bicycle related companies.

still, we would love to see a picture of your bike

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Portland 3-speed posted by Matthew on 9/10/2009 at 10:57:43 AM
Portland bicycles? There's a concrete idea!

Keith is right, as always. You are very unlikely to unearth the origins of your beast but a photo, as Chris says, would be most helpful.

Matthew - OPC, that's the one for me.

(Ordinary Portland Cement)

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by: Sue on 9/8/2009 at 4:10:32 AM
We would love to know the age and make of this bike. It's still rideable. It has a back peddle brake, the front brake is missing. We found the old girl parked in a hay shed in New Zealand.


           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Chris on 9/8/2009 at 6:22:54 PM
The crankset is one of Raleigh's famous and standard crankset. The bike is a Raleigh and from the 1930's it looks like. Raleigh out of Nottingham, England

I like snapfish!

           RE:RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Sue on 9/8/2009 at 8:59:35 PM
Hi Chris
Thanks for that. Shall see if I can find a Raleigh site on the internet. Thank you again.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Keith Body on 9/9/2009 at 12:00:15 PM
Hi Sue, Unlike Chris, I can't see anything I recognise as Raleigh. The chainwheel could be a standard nicklin, who made millions for Raleigh. If the plating is (was) chrome, then its after 1930, If Nickel (more of a slight gold look) it is probably older. I can't see what the rear hub flange is. The number stamped on the seat lug is unlikely to mean much now.

           RE:RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Chris on 9/9/2009 at 2:34:49 PM
Wow Keith! I am very impressed with you! I tip my hat in respect. Yes Nicklin did make millions of chainwheels for Raleigh it became "Raleigh's standard chainwheel" but it was indeed known as a "Nicklin chainwheel" I remember a pal mentioning the nicklin name when I pointed to that chainwheel.
There were a lot of makers of British bikes.
Anyways, this is a neat find and nice bike and I'l glad you rescued it and I hope you get in back on the road with new tires and a going through.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Sue on 9/9/2009 at 6:27:26 PM
Thanks guys for your input I have added some more photos of the front and rear hubs.
Now I must share a funny wee story with you.
The better half is addicted to cycling. He is the proud owner of a very up market Avanti road bike which has all the modern bibs and bobs.

Well he pumped up the tyres on Doris (the old bike) and commenced to take her on a short 10k ride.

On his arrival home, which is up our rather steep driveway, he yelled out "Look at this." He came flying up it at a fair rate of speed. On his approach to the half closed garage door he applied the rear brake expecting a quick response which didn't happen. He swerved so has not to be decapitate by the garage door only to ride straight into a hedge.
Three generations of the family were there to witness this. He will never live it down, or forget the laughter. It was hilarious.


           RE:RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Chris on 9/9/2009 at 6:35:27 PM
I'm glad he's ok. decapitation by the garage door is not a good way to go.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Keith Body on 9/10/2009 at 2:41:35 PM
Sue, the style of this bike looks like British early 1930's, but export, as we had very few coaster hub brakes, and this was made like it, not converted. So as an export it could have been produced later. The name on the rear brake hub might help. The wheels appear to have been rebuilt with zinc plated spokes, the style of building is not typical of a large factory.
6 miles on it was a brave effort.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Sue on 9/11/2009 at 7:52:20 PM
Thanks Keith.
I cleaned up the rear brake hub and found the words
EADIE COASTER with what looks like ATENTS under the first two words the a number under that that looks like
9317 S820891-98. Does this help.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Keith Body on 9/12/2009 at 1:13:22 PM
Sue, Eadie coaster was (I think) made by BSA, and supplied to many makers, the other word must be "patents", tends to confirm a UK origin is likely.
Rarely saw these, but have had them apart, over 50 years ago. The freewheel is a roller one way clutch, not unlike one used in some car overdrive boxes, and the brake an expanding bronze sleeve, beginning to doubt my memory though. Instant recall takes about 30 minutes at best, I am 76.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Steve on 9/13/2009 at 12:39:03 AM
Keith, you do make me laugh.

I bet you're one of those irritating people that walks up stairs....and actually remembers WHY he's gone there !

I wish I could have a pound for every time I've failed that test !

Don't tell me....you live in a bungalow !



           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Keith Body on 9/13/2009 at 11:25:27 AM
Steve, I must have climbed the stairs, as I am looking at my TFT screen. Trouble is my feet are sort of semi-detached, and I had to get an automatic car. So I got the only Fiat with a white stick holder. I recently suggested to the "Help the Aged" collectors that perhaps they should be handing it out. Long term memory is sort of intermittent, like a moving fog. Recent memory is


           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by Sue on 9/13/2009 at 1:12:53 PM
Restoration is in progress. Doris is in bits. Her wheels are in the capable hands of another long toothed bike surgeon who has been working on bikes since he was in diapers. He is going to respoke the wheels for me. The front spokes are a bit strange in that one side of the spokes are longer than the other side, I thought they would all be the same length. Just have to get the crank apart now as there is a bit of play in there. Any idea were I might be able to track down the front breaks. Would appear that it had a rod and the brake pads would have come up and gripped under the rim, rather than grabbing onto the side of the rim. I'm 57 and love play mechanical things, far more rewarding that baking a cake.

           RE:MISC:   Can anyone identify this old lady's bike please posted by pramoedya on 9/20/2009 at 8:39:05 AM
my name is darma. I'm from Indonesia
I want to ask about year serial number my raleigh bicycle lady.number frame is BJ 36919


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

FOR SALE:   The last I have for sale posted by: David on 9/7/2009 at 8:43:26 PM

I will be listing some other parts as well, along with my 1931 Sunbeam roadster bicycle...unless someone here makes me an offer.

thanks for looking

           RE:FOR SALE:   The last I have for sale posted by Kevin on 9/9/2009 at 4:20:04 AM
Items for sale should be priced. If I want to make offers, I will go the auction route.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   B.S.A. posted by: Stephen Hogben on 9/7/2009 at 6:10:52 AM
Pedalling along by the canal yesterday,when I came across a bike,it had obviously been dredged from the water and been thrown at the side of the tow path.Looking closer it was a ladies B.S.A. Shopper!It did not look to bad so home it came.Stripped it down this morning,handle bars bent(large bit of pipe)front pedal cog bent against frame (large lever)rear wheel badly buckled(jump up and down on it,then some fine tuning with a spoke spanner)bent pedal (large pipe again) The Chrome came up really well with some wire wool.S.A hub has 80 stamped on it with a 5 near it,so is it 80 or 85? Will be ready to re-build tomorrow!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   B.S.A. posted by David on 9/7/2009 at 8:45:08 AM
May (5) 1980

Good luck with it.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   B.S.A. posted by Stephen Hogben on 9/7/2009 at 1:34:55 PM
Thankyou David,This means I now have 9 bikes!No room for any more,until the next one comes along I suppose!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   B.S.A. posted by Steve on 9/7/2009 at 3:41:49 PM
I've used molegrips (carefully) with a cloth between the jaws recently for taking dinks out of wheel rims (that otherwise would have gone for scrap).

Steve - smooth braking

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: "Dangerous"?? posted by: Rod on 9/4/2009 at 7:44:49 AM
Now, what this article seems to assert is when carrying weight if I am stating this correctly, the SA gear will not work. They certainly are making a big deal of this and while many of us I am sure, have experienced switching to a gear and then pedalling with nothing going on, this seems to be an exagerration.

There are trips people are known to have made with 3 speed Sturmey Archer gears. They could not have done this according to the article if they were carrying a load.

> S-A hubs have a potentially lethal "neutral" position between their
> top and middle gears. If you are unlucky enough to 'find' this
> position, while, say, sprinting uphill, you could land on your ear,
> as if you had broken a pedal or a chain.

> HOWEVER, I've ridden them lots, and vigorously, and the only times
> this happened to me (twice) was: once when attempting to use a
> friction device instead of the official SA trigger (dumb!), and once
> when using the pathetically lousy SA cheesey plastic 2 cables-into-1
> control for their 5-speed.

That doesn't ring true. A friction device can only relax control
cable tension, which ensures fuller engagement if anything. As you
must be aware, disconnecting the control cable puts the SA hub fully
in top gear. I find the Sturmey-Archer psychological warfare, in
which they have always placed the blame on the user, exceptionally
effective. The more insulting their claims of user ineptitude, the
more the user cowers and takes the blame. I think they are fully
aware of this and use it to best advantage.

> (Two 3-speed triggers together, instead of the plastic abomination,
> work crisply and reliably.) Newer hubs by Sachs and Shimano have
> apparently eliminated this dead spot or neutral (freewheels both
> directions), and I like them too, especially the Sachs, but I still
> have confidence in the S-A, even though it does have a definite need
> for precise cable adjustment.

The dead spot is the essence of the SA hub and it requires it to
prevent having two gears locked against each other. Low and second
cannot do this because this shift merely lifts one pair of over-running
pawls. That's why there is no click when in low gear.

Jobst Brandt


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by ken on 9/4/2009 at 11:23:22 AM
A little background for those who haven't seen it: Jobst Brandt is the author of The Bicycle Wheel, a complete treatise on the theory and practical use of the tensioned wheel, and has contributed tons of useful information to the field. His answers to frequently asked questions are posted as a separate page on sheldonbrown.com.
He is a brilliant mechanical engineer, and I would trust his data on any measurable test. He is also a famous curmudgeon who permanently got up on the wrong side of the bed. Other brilliant mechanical engineers have disagreed with him...
Mr. Brandt's position on S-A is well documented. At the conclusion of this page on Brown's site, Sheldon carefully qualifies it.
I personally have hurt myself slipping _between_ gears ("misadjusted") but never in high as Brandt reports. Anyone?

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Rod on 9/4/2009 at 4:17:42 PM
Thanks for the response Ken: I errantly forgot to post the link to the Jobst Brand post: keywords "Sturmer Archer dangerous" and voila! http://yarchive.net/bike/sturmey_archer_hubs.html

From there, quite a number of other articles can be accessed from the main pages, even non-bike articles I believe.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Keith Body on 9/5/2009 at 11:36:43 AM
I would have thought that anyone using a SA AW gear would have discovered the "neutral". We used to find that this increased with wear, but we often used it to check the gear adjustment, optimum was not always aligned with the indicator rod. Feel the engagement as you pull the gear lever. Dangerous??

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Steve on 9/5/2009 at 2:36:33 PM
I've discovered the "neutral" a few times, each occasion scoring maximum points from the judges for "artistic content" !

Truth is, I think the hub was a tired hub, I simply adjusted things and carried on, but I was always wary of the hub that could redesign your undercarriage at anytime without a moments notice.

Steve - I've never had this problem on a single speed !

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Keith Body on 9/6/2009 at 8:32:40 AM
Hi Steve, I forgot it is now nearly 50 years since I did these.
First make sure the gear cable is free and oiled if trigger type. Also run the trigger cable as straight as possible. The main wearing parts are the planet pins and sliding clutch. The 4 pronged driver (cog attached here) has the cross shaped sliding clutch moving along the prongs to change gear. For high gear the driver engages with the protuding ends of the planet pins. Both surfaces are subject to rounding off. It might help to fit a slightly stronger spring to push the sliding clutch to the planet cage. The AW was designed so that the worn parts were very cheap to replace. I think more problems were caused by stiff cables, so that the sliding clutch only just reached the pins.
When the driver is engaged with the planet gears, the outer gear ring revolves faster, and drives the hub shell, to give the high gear.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Steve on 9/6/2009 at 10:40:07 AM
That's wonderful Keith, but next time can you be more specific !

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Kevin on 9/7/2009 at 4:03:55 AM
You're amazing, Keith. I always have great respect for anyone who really knows what they're talking about. That's kind of a rare thing these days.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 9/7/2009 at 4:47:12 AM
Many folks are quite competent and handy, experienced and talented... Not everyone can put it to words as succinctly and eloquently.

Kinda like... I can play some real nice stuff on the guitar.... ask me to notate any of it in standard musical notation... Yeah... it could happen... in about 100 years. Maybe.

I've had that "Neutral" happen once or twice.... usually rectified by lubricating the hub, cables, trigger... and a good and careful "by feel" (meaning wee adjustments and test rides) adjusting of the entire system.

Seems to rectify it straigt away. Perhaps I've never encountered a very well worn hub as of yet.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Curmudgeons are cool.

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Chris on 9/8/2009 at 6:31:32 PM
If you get to know the thing, it is not a problem anymore. That's what we do here , we school folks on getting to know the hub so this is not an issue. I have gotten to know all of them over many many miles. And also this issue was eliminated some time ago and Sturmey- Archer was bought up by Sunrace and that company has since changed it's name to Sunrace Sturmey- Archer. A new winf was added to the factory in Taiwan and the old sturmey archer tooling and the name and other things along with two live people was all shipped to Taiwan where it hums along rather well.

I have read books about folks treking around the world and the authors don't even mention this about the sturmey archer gears.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Article: posted by Mark R. on 9/18/2009 at 4:35:55 PM
Modern Sturmey hubs (now made by Sunrace) have been redesigned to get rid of this issue, though I have yet to read the tech on what they did mechanically. Probably along the lines of what folks like Brandt have suggested. I have two bikes with these newer hubs and I'll admit it's nice not to have to be quite so fussy with the cable tension.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

WANTED:   Wanted: 1949 bicycle license plate posted by: Kevin on 9/4/2009 at 4:22:19 AM
Please reply to irishhiker@aol.com. Thank you.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Heard of this brand? posted by: Pete on 9/2/2009 at 8:32:34 PM
Served up to me in pieces is a 1953 City Road 3 speed 26 ". I will try to get a photo tomorrow but has anyone ever stumbled on one of these? Made in England of course..axled dated and verified by original by family.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Heard of this brand? posted by Stewart on 9/3/2009 at 6:11:13 AM
Dear Pete,
Please post your pictures. I have a chromed City Road (circa early 50s)that I built up from a frame and fork. I would love to see what the other missing pieces looked like. I think mine was built in London.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Heard of this brand? posted by Pete on 9/3/2009 at 9:46:04 AM
Try again on the photos


           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Heard of this brand? posted by Pete on 9/3/2009 at 9:47:09 AM


           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Heard of this brand? posted by Pete on 9/3/2009 at 9:50:55 AM
Stewart..email me at lutefisk@sbcglobal.net and ill send few photos..besides the posted ones. If you are interested in it I would consider selling. I have too many others... I can prove it!!!

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Can you imagine? posted by: Chris on 9/2/2009 at 6:32:16 PM
When companies closed or were merged, can you imagine the waste that must have went on?

I'd be telling the security guards, who are pointing flashlights at me and telling me to get out of the dumpster/ skips " yes go ahead and arest me, shoot me if you like, but I am here in this dumpster, searching until I find those serial number guides so the collectors in the future will be able to type in a number in a computer and info will pop up.
Yes, let me just deliver that information before I die.

It drives me crazy people write in with a number to give to us and it does us no good because that information has been lost in the mist's of time.

And information on Hercules for example is very difficult to come by and I have always gone on about the magic in all this but for so much to dissapear like it has is totally SPOOKY! YES ! SPOOKY!

I go on, and I'm silly and it's all in fun, but it's so weird. Unraveling this stuff is earie,

Large companies have in house historians and folks who stash things away for museaums and well, what is left of Phillips or Raleigh or any other make? not much.

Yes, this stuff is nothing less than magic and mystery.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Can you imagine? posted by chris on 9/2/2009 at 6:50:43 PM
I guess the reason is when changes happened folks were losing their jobs and it was not important to the folks who had to find a new job and then they had to leave and whomever took possession did not care enough they had other concerns and this stuff falls into the hands of folks who are not sold out enthiuiasts like we are and folks have to pay to store things and the reasons are many

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Can you imagine? posted by Patrick on 9/5/2009 at 2:24:26 PM
Trash is considered oompany property and one could get fired for taking it. I work for a large engineering/manufacturing co. and they recently went through a major building renovation. I found a real cool Detroit map from the '50's, in a trash can. I asked one of the building directors if I could take it. She bluntly replied "Only if you want to lose your job,it's still company property" Guess where that map stayed. They used to allow us to take used car parts for our own cars. Some idiot sued the company over a part that had failed and that came to a scraching halt! We can be fired for leaving with a paper clip from the trash,not worth the risk.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Can you imagine? posted by Christopher on 9/8/2009 at 6:50:18 PM
Well said, correct and quite true and especially more true given the state of the economy.

So yes, don't endanger your job but well, I love this stuff and have braved all sorts of hazards and what started me on this particular post was talking about the serial number codes for the old bikes where somebody writes in and rattles off some serial number and expects us to have this information on hand to help them and we do not have it. I am sure there were folks back in the day when Raleigh merged and the other companies that were folded into raleigh were being closed and folks were loosing their jobs and wondering what to do and yes, going into the dumpster was probably just as taboo and forbidden as it is now. Lost pension, fired, police called, you name it.

So things go into landfil and are lost forever.
Yet, for me being so sold out to this stuff there are risks I will take anyways and oh the hell with it but I don't want to encourage others to leave their common sense in the car with their good shoes.

I read an article about a airman from the 2 nd world war who buried something and he is going back for it. Yes, you hide it then and go back, when you can.

"There are ways, in the worst of human conditions, there are always ways, and there never is, any policing of such human resourcefulness . People always find a way. And the more you try to crush it, the more elaborate are it's devices."

-Victor Herman- Coming out of the Ice an unexpected life by Victor Herman
book, out of print but worth finding and reading

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

WANTED:   Tires posted by: Diane E on 9/2/2009 at 5:56:34 PM
I have a Jonas Ogleand DBS junior17 Serial # 4514086
ade in N?????? I know appr.what year it is (1950)but my local bike shop cannot find the right size tires 17.5 not 17 1/2 but 17.25 we THINK. Can anyone help me with more info?? I LOVE THIS BIKE!!!

           RE:WANTED:   Tires posted by Chris on 9/2/2009 at 6:27:13 PM
You will need to be patient, tires all sorts of odd sized tires are out there, still, in old shops, collectors have them stuffed in their sheds and garages, I have run across so many odd sized tires, and oddities and things with "bastard threads" on them. Don't panic but do be patient you will have to do a lot of looking around I believe.

           RE:WANTED:   Tires posted by Jacob on 9/3/2009 at 11:58:12 AM
By the way: DBS was a major Norwegian bicycle brand.
take a look at http://mo-ped.se/noreg/dbs.htm

Jacob, Denmark

           RE:WANTED:   Tires posted by Matthew on 9/5/2009 at 2:14:16 PM

Hi Diane & folks,

Look at the above webpage(s). If Sheldon didn't mention it then I am a firm believer that it never existed.

Matthew - lamenting our loss. Sheldon Brown RIP

           RE:RE:WANTED:   Tires posted by chris on 9/9/2009 at 2:55:58 PM
Mathew wrote:"If Sheldon Brown never listed it then I a am a firm believer that it never existed" True, but still there are still weird things that pop up and I am thinking of Charles Fort the founder of the "Fortean Society" who cataloged all the strange newspaper articles in shoe boxes about u.f.o. sightings and sea monster sightings and such things- he tracked these things down in person to see if they were true or not. Fort had boxes and boxes of sightings and articles and it got really crazy. I would find stuff that didn't fit, or fit between, what Sheldon listed and wrote. Sheldon was very busy, cooresponded with everybody and covered so much for so long but nobody could cover it all and like I said things fall between the cracks.

Also, there is much that can't be offically added into books. I went sniffing about only to be told that they didn't want this or that told and that folks still living would object and I got doors slamed in my face by otherwise reliable and good generous sources because there were reasons
Old bikes has it's share of the weird, small production run, oddities that are cool until one needs a pair of tires or a bottom bracket spindle.

I found Campagnolo parts marked "made in France" when we all know it's Italian and famously so. We aregued and I said Um it's here I am holding this in one hand and holding the phone reciever in the other and I'll send it to you so you will believe me! other crazy things not just rare but stuff that is not in the books stuff good and long since forgotten until it pops back up into the daylight and it stays hidden until I spend, or until you spend the day, all day digging in that basement and covered in dirt and wet, you brigh it up the stairs into the light of day to the car and back to home base. I got my shoes muddy and slipped down those old wooden stairs and landed at the foot of the stairwell. Sometimes there were no stairs remaining and we had to go get a ladder and run electrical cord and drop lights borrowed from work and they had a fit because I didn't get them returned in time and so I got billed for the replacements. keep looking

           RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Tires posted by Chris on 9/9/2009 at 4:17:45 PM
It fell between the cracks because it was from Norway. If there was a list of the different stuff made by each country over the last 100 years then this would be found there indeed.
I like how she wrote " I love this bike " anyways , it's out there to be found, somebody has these tires.

Can we see a picture of the bike?

           RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Tires posted by Chris on 9/9/2009 at 5:06:32 PM
Sheldon and others have not devoted space on web sites to showing and discussing the strange, odd size tires and weird parts bikes with difficult to find replacement parts that you can't get around. The freakish, weird, bastard stuff. Somebody pulls a bike from up from the ocean floor where it has rested for decades, throws it on the boat deck and the question is Wow, Cool! Where do I find replacement parts?
Somewhere on the web there should be a page showing readers bike finds. All the odd,. rare, stuff with parts and tires that don't fit into the computer searches, the Sheldon Brown lists, If you have found something interesting and folks at the bike shop stop and stare at it in befuddled speachlessness and stutter "I don't know where you'd find parts for that!": Well,it's part of cycling's "parade of the damned" as Fort writes and it's part of vintage bicycles own, "Book of the damned"One of Charles Fort's early books. It's what makes it so cool, why they say I love this bike, why people stare at it, why they want it, why offers are made, why it gets stolen and they even left the mountain bikes in the garage and took the pair of Raleigh's.
an example would be,
The Cyclo company made a "Rosa rim tool" leaver like tools to remove the dents and kinks in Westwood and Endrick common type steel rims. Until the powers that be made them stop making and selling it. Better to sell the customer a whole new rim or a whole new bicycle! The idea of fixing a bicycle rim when a new one could be sold was scandalous-
another example-
The Torrington company catching hell and being ordered to stop production of so strong a bicycle spoke that in Veitnam they kept the supply lines open because women were pushing bicycles laden down with 300 pounds and more of supplies hanging on the bicycles and why didn't the spokes break in the wheels? because Torrington made super strength spokes- Torrington spokes in the wheels of those bikes. Until folks showed up to forceably lay hands on and seize the company's spoke tooling machines (some of them) But by then, and for other reasons as well , we withdrew from Veitnam. If it was short lived, withdrawn quickly, from long ago and from a company that was unique and went out of business under strange circumstances, if, after a lot of searches you still find nothing, if the bike people have never heard of it, if folks gather around it, if collectors come out of the woodwork to drive you nuts wanting to buy it. If the hurdles you have to go over, under and around are difficult and costly and dispite others who would say "it's not meant to happen" and "let it go" and still you persist on until victory then in a sense, it's "damned."

Still, the "damned stuff" or strangest or rarest or prototype odd, "one off" is the most fun stuff to have. The mystery, the magic, the crazy but true, the story about the lady who bought a fur coat at an estate sale and finds a brooch sewn in the hem that was appraised at $250,000.00 or the "flying bike" that really flew but the inventor who patched it together in his garage had a heart attack before it could be marketed or shown in public.
What makes a thing marvelous it the fact that parts are going to be impossible to find. That it is from a different era and that searches and quieries come up with nothing.
Yes, there is sorrow when you want to enjoy it or ride it and you can't, because you can't mend it.

I had a "Marx Moon buggy" a six wheeled plastic toy that you got in and turned handles and it spun and was so awesome. It was magical because I out grew it and grew old and tall to tall for it. So the magic got handed down to kids who thought it was the most flipping cool toy they ever saw and rode it all around grinning. Magic is sometimes a thing we sadly out grow but that's only true in some things.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:WANTED:  B.S.A. 3 speed hubs posted by chris on 9/9/2009 at 6:33:45 PM
The B.S.A. 3 speed hubs, (the old ones) and the tools, and methods of servicing the hubs, the replacement parts for them. These are "damned" a thing lost to time, few are in use, even fewer replacement parts, fewer yet service tools, nobody discusses these in the groups on the net, little information is on the net about them, nobody hardly anybody repairs them, pulls them apart, it's nothing like the Sturmey- Archer 3 speed hubs no the B.S.A. is lost - already over horizon part of a lost era.

It had no dead spot, nobody ever rode one and had one slip out of gear resulting in a no gear engagement, free wheeling- free fall slip where they fell onto the top bar of the bicycle injuring themselves. There was no fear of it slipping. With the cable slack, it was in low gear.
Not high.
It had better bearings, hard machined steel, long lasting parts inside, it was smooth as silk to ride and while they can be found and some are in bikes you can find, it is still "damned"

I want to see an old timer an old school bike mechanic do a "you tube" video on repairing and servicing a B.S.A. 3 speed hub from 1919 or so.

I had one, had it laced into a wheel at the shop and the owner looked at me like it was forbidden, evil, like I was not supposed to have one or be able to own one and here I was, with the audacity to want to ride the thing. Comments were made about how much better they were over a Sturmey- Archer hub. I was not supposed to tell anybody that she allowed their mechanic to lace it up for me and that if so and so found out and so on.... It was crazy especially that B.S.A. had long since stoped making them and that the B.S.A. had become part of Raleigh and really all of it had vanished. I told her it was a 50 year old antique hub. "But then, why do you have a new one?" It's new! Get it out of here!" "I don't want B.S.A hubs in my shop." (this was in the early 1980's) "Because I am a collector, I know people, and I paid more than I should have for it." I said.
She was young enough, the shop not old enough to have ever sold them and well, somebody who taught her about the bike business did not like the B.S.A. hubs as if they could loose their franchise for selling one. "You should not have that." "Why don't you use a Sturmey- Archer instead?" "You built that in the wheel for him??"
She freaked out and for no reason.
I wasted a lot of money having wheels built instead of learning how to build them myself but I was always out searching for things. And in the dead of winter it was a good excuse to be in the shops I brought in wheel building work to them.

a better built part, that has no flaws, that lasts forever, that does not self destruct within a year that doesn't chew chainwheels and chains up like the modern stuff does is also "damned"

Back in the day, the B.S.A. hub was repaired just like the Sturmey- Archers were and tools and replacement parts were common place. Something happened. The inferior hub of the two, won out. Partly because the B.S.A was expensive to make and was too well made. A real effort was made to wipe it out. The Sturmey Archer 3 speed hub was a gold mine they didn't want threatened.
When they stare, stunned, and ask "Where did you find that?" You know it's special.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   English 3 speed specialist in San Diego??? posted by: Mark Stonich on 9/2/2009 at 4:39:24 PM
A friend just asked me if I knew of anyone in San Diego who could do quality work on an English 3 Speed. Either a shop or an experienced gent working at home.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: English 3 speed specialist in San Diego??? posted by mark on 9/2/2009 at 11:14:26 PM
check the oldbike.blogspot.com great diy blog ths guy has been working learning them on hs own
he lives in san diego

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: English 3 speed specialist in San Diego??? posted by mark on 9/3/2009 at 9:23:40 AM
my previous reply was meant to suggest a possible source for leads in San Diego, not that this person works on other people's bikes

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   PHILIPS posted by: victor palma on 9/2/2009 at 9:17:11 AM
dear sir: I have a philips cycle which was of my father and I was repairing it.The serial number is 188406 and is very important for me to know where and when was made.
If you coldn't give me this information please send me to whom I must to contact.
Thanks in advance for your help
best regards

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   PHILIPS posted by Matthew on 9/2/2009 at 10:55:39 AM
Hello Victor,

Sorry but the records for such makes as Phillips are poor. A photograph would be a great help in trying to date the bicycle.

Matthew - here to help.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   PHILIPS posted by Chris on 9/2/2009 at 6:32:11 PM
Yes, we need a picture of the bike. The serial numbers do us no good we have not been given or left the deciphering codes.

Phillips, was huge! made a lot of wide variety of bicycles, out of Birmingham, England until a 1961 merger with Raleigh and then Phillip's 3 factories were closed and production shifted to Nottingham, England where it continued for a while.

What size wheels ? what color? mens or ladies frame? cable or rod brakes?

a lot of folks here collect and have and love Phillips bikes we are Phillips historians ,here and we know Phillips and the individual parts like the hubs very well.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   PHILIPS posted by Joe Murdock on 10/31/2009 at 10:15:48 AM
I just got a Philips bike myself and need a bit of help finding some information on it. It is a 26 inch, sort of a tan/gold color, cable brakes, men's frame, Stumy Archer rear 3 speed hub, twist grip shifter, No idea of age. Looks to be in great condition though. Just want to get an idea of what year it is and what it is worth. ANY help or information would be great. E-mail me at Outskirtscustoms@yahoo.com

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   American 3-speeds posted by: jj on 9/1/2009 at 3:40:59 AM
What do you all think of American 3-speeds like Columbias and Sears Free Spirits, etc? Some of them have a Sturmey-Archer gearbox and their frames are longer along the top tube.

           RE:MISC:   American 3-speeds posted by JT on 9/1/2009 at 1:58:43 PM
I have two of them from the 80s (AMF and Huffy) that I ride regularly because I have not been able to find an English roadster with a frame large enough yet. The quality of the components is somewhat lower, but they are still much better than the dreck in Walmart etc today. With an extra large handlebar stem you get the same upright feel, just not quite so many admiring glances.

...>>>>>>>> MORE MESSAGES >>>>>>>>

HOME (OldRoads.com) Discussion Areas Literature and Price Guide Cleaning Kit Glossary
Stat and Feature Database Picture Database Serial Number Charts General Resources