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English Roadsters

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24" frame, advice on Sturmey Archer FG hub? posted by: Chas on 8/3/2009 at 1:42:17 AM
Hello all,
I have recently ditched my MTB & lycra accessories, moving back over to road cycling for the first time in over 30years by way of a BSA which I'd like to clean and get on the road for some vintage cycling.

Previous owner had a cycle-motor fitted I belive, 24" frame, rear wheel is later raleigh rim with Sturmey Archer FG 4-speed dynohub dated Aug '60 (same as as me)!

My question.. will this hub do, or should I seek out a 3speed replacement?


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Tim on 8/3/2009 at 12:29:16 PM
I'd keep the FG because you will have 4 gears, instead of 3. Also if you ever want to run lights, the dyno is the way to go. If you just "have" to have a AW the FG could be worth something to someone.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Chris on 8/3/2009 at 12:55:09 PM
Yes, keep the f.g. four speed it makes the bike more fun to ride and it adds to the worth all around. The pictures on flickr were wonderful and I clicked it and it went to full screen close ups and I just sat there soaking it all in! I took the tour, so to speak!

Nice bike!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Kevin on 8/3/2009 at 7:07:24 PM
I'd keep it, too. Replacing the latter-day pedals and grips would make a big difference in the looks of the bike.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:���BSA 24 posted by Al on 8/4/2009 at 2:44:14 PM

Is that a four-speed trigger shifter? Looks too new. If not, I guess the FG doesn't do any good with a 3-speed shifter. But those 4-speed shifters aren't impossible to find.

I guess I'm more of a purist when it comes to these hubs - if the hub is worn out - races pitted, dyno not putting out light - why use it? That said, a 1960 hub is more likely in better shape than a later hub. Case hardened, forged steel innards in the earlier stuff, right. Maybe I'm off base here... Keith Body, you want to clarify?

Anyway, if the hub wasn't abused, I bet it's in great shape. With some loving and 20w oil, I bet it'll tick like a fine watch.

Cool bike. Those pinstripes are still hanging on!


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Keith Body on 8/4/2009 at 3:46:58 PM
Hello Gentlemen, Al, it was a long time ago when I pulled the SA gears apart. (50 years) I think the machined parts were free cutting steel, case hardened, gear ring, sun and planets just broached. In the UK, if we got 2 weeks without rain it was declared a drought. So on the average the ride to work bike was ridden through rain about twice a week. the water enters the SA gears through the ball race above the driver, 3/16 inch balls. So every time we looked inside the hubs they were full of red/brown rusty sludge.
SA gears were clever designs, but I favoured the chain gears and got to dislike these hubs. Our users almost never oiled or adjusted them.
This bike might have a BSA frame, looks like early 1930's, but not much else. BSA normally had a rear brake "bell crank" lever (lower head lug) like the Raleigh, double sided. So the handlebar may be Phillips/Hercules? the chainwheel not BSA, the remains of the head transfer are too high up, and show no varnish, the box lining (pin stripes?) don't look right. Is there a BSA logo on the front hub?
It has a cast BSA bottom bracket shell, but these lug sets were supplied worldwide.
I'm sure it's collectable.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Steve on 8/4/2009 at 4:48:25 PM
Keith, you must understand....they're all collectable !

I've released two old stagers tonight, I've never felt so low since Nerys Hughes left the Liver Birds, Lyndsey de Paul stopped playing the piano on the tele, and Mary Hopkins got married to a pig farmer from Wales !

Fortunately, I've got a video of Abigails Party (on Betamax), so all is not lost.

Still, life (not to be confused with still-life) goes on....and so does my 16" front wheeled Hopper Tradebike (I just know you're impressed with that)!

Steve - you have to put it all into perspective.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Chas on 8/4/2009 at 5:09:38 PM
Thanks for the replies..no surprise it's still raining here in UK! At almost fifty years the rear wheel(and hub)are positively gleaming compared to the rest of the bike where chrome is noticeably aged, the fork covers might be chrome on brass.
Trigger is modern. I have looked hard, discovered no other BSA trademarks/piled rifles on any components; did they *always* have their initials incorporated in the chainwheel? Keith's right, this one's newer as are cranks, Pin-stripes are as old as the mudguards.. tailor made to fit the frame. The tube around head transfer covered in oil so could have slipped upwards an inch.

How far do I really need to go with dis-assembly to get on the road? Or just clean up components and go from there.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Warren on 8/4/2009 at 5:16:43 PM
My first thought is that it looks like a Hercules fork crown.

Nice bike!

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Chris on 8/4/2009 at 6:49:54 PM
By the 1950's a lot of cyclists (folks who rode touring and racing type bike) (the lightweight stuff like Jack Taylors and Hetchins and so forth) "most of these folks had abandoned the hub gear camp" and Tony Hadland has told us. Also, Keith had owned a shop that catered to folks who owned bikes that used derailer gears. Sure he saw them and worked on them and sure his customers had bikes with the Sturmey gears in them but my guess is mainly there were more derailer gear bikes. I understand where Keith is coming from. Also because Raleigh and others made stuff there but shipped it out immediately to foreigh countries all over the world including the U.S.A. is makes sense that he would not have seen the stuff we are talking about. Raleigh didn't wave it around before shipping it off they just sent it. They didn't say: "NA NA You can't buy this!" to the folks in the home market and also I think of the Frank Patterson drawings which shows a lone male cyclists stopping here and there while touring Britian and so often the bike shown is in fact, a derailer gear model bike.

Keith is the real thing, a old school cyclist, a shop cycle repairer from back in the day.

He paints a picture as it really was, with awesome clarity.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Keith Body on 8/5/2009 at 2:34:59 AM
Hi everyone, It's so polite here.
Reminds me of an ex friend who spent years restoring a 1958 Morris Minor car. When asked for an opinion I unkindly said "I remember when they were rubbish".
Chris, Frank Patterson was stuck in the 1930's. He made amazing use of white space, I have a book of his somewhere. He actually did his drawings from photos, never went out.
My first bike was a BSA rod brake, BSA 3 speed, etc. Later I had a BSA Gold Column, a lot rarer than the RRA, a true hand built, brazed on alloy brakes, hand forged BSA cranks and alloy chainwheel, also a prewar BSA opperman racer.
I met Reg Harris (Raleigh professional sprint world champion), Frank Southall (hercules pre WW2 pro), had conversations with a cycle repairer who had worked at Dursley Pederson, and an early 1900's track racer whose family, at that time, small workshop manufactured roadster bikes to a high standard, machined and case hardened all their own cycle bearings. Their 28" wheel bike with 1 brake weighed 25 pounds.
I sold both Hetchins and Jack Taylor, and others.
I think its just stopped raining.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Matthew on 8/5/2009 at 1:54:21 PM
Hi Keith,

Well if it has stopped raining that can only mean one thing.... it's going to rain!

By the way, thank you for the value that you add to this discussion board. I've been posting here for about 9 years and the value of this board is the sum of its contributors.

Matthew - always with a comment.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Steve on 8/5/2009 at 3:47:18 PM
Keith, can you let me know what you eat.

I struggle to remember what I did last week, never mind the molecular structure of a Sturmey Archer hub from fifty years ago.

e.g. I wasn't happy about the amount of play I had in a Phillips BB/axle assembly today, so I stripped it and tried to improve it with other o.k. but "used parts".

To cut a long three hour story (experiment) short, I tried a mixture of Hercules, Raleigh, Pashley (Japanese) and unknown manufacturer parts.

The end result was, the original Phillips axle and bearing cups, new bearings and plenty of clean grease, nothing strange there you might think....funny how it didn't work the first time I tried it, but it did work after I'd messed about for three hours !

I personally think that I had "woken/cleaned" the thread up with trying other correctly threaded cups in the BB hence managing to get an extra turn on the left hand cup
in order to "nip" the bearings that little bit closer to the axle.

All is rotating well now, and the Phillips (which has been a bit of a pain in the a**e) is now off the critical list.

Some of you may recall that I managed to get some bearings stuck inside the chainstays on this very bike a few months ago, well, they came out today (just as I was about to fill the stays with a wall cavity foam solution of some description), a very long piece of wire inserted through the two holes inside the BB and wiggled around for quite a while eventually loosened up some crud which in turn allowed the balls to drop out.

I very much doubt I will forget the trying times (fun) this bike has provided me with (and it's still not finished yet).

I relay these basic problems on, in the hope that others may find it useful knowledge to solve simple problems with perseverance and non-specialist tools.

I've had a look at the BSA photos tonight, it's an interesting bike that looks to have been updated in one or two places.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Kevin on 8/6/2009 at 12:06:21 PM
When did Mary Hopkin marry the pig farmer? She's one of my favorite singers, but I only knew of her ill-fated marriage to record producer/musician Tony Visconti. Visconti, I think, was later married to one of John Lennon's mistresses. John used to ride a Lenton, by the way.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Steve on 8/6/2009 at 2:03:10 PM
No, not that Mary Hopkins, I'm talking about the one that lived up the lane from me....at Sunny View Farm !

No middle of the road stuff for John Lennon, somehow that doesn't surprise me.

Steve - those were the days my friend.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Kevin on 8/6/2009 at 4:35:14 PM
... we thought they'd never end; those were the days, oh, yes, those were the days ...


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by JDuck on 8/8/2009 at 7:31:38 AM
I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford, 67-70 and, believe me, "those were the days". I'm still in love with Mary Hopkin!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Kevin on 8/9/2009 at 4:11:09 AM
Me, too. Her "Earth Song, Ocean Song" is one of my favorite LPs. She has a nice website and an active group of unbelievably loyal fans. I have no idea if she rides a Raleigh or a Humber, though.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Keith Body on 8/9/2009 at 2:34:23 PM
Hi Chas, Steve and All, You do not want a memory like mine. My instant recall takes about 30 minutes, and a background search sub-(or semi) conscious can take weeks. So it gets triggered by items on here, and surprises me with things I had long forgotten. We were into soldering brake cables recently, and I have just remembered the emergency repair, tie a knot on the end of the cable, most cable brake levers will take this, not the barrel shape. I lost a pair of pliers today, then found them in my pocket. Just remembered the assembler in the BSA works throwing the handlebar internal nuts in the end of the handlebar. They just arrived at the right place to screw in the rod lever suports. I only do the passive stuff now, like recovering hard disk bad sectors, and sit here suffering from terminal idleness.
Apologies for nicking your thread Chas, but you BSA looks very like the early 1920's that my father had, but chrome plate didn't arrive til early thirties.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Steve on 8/11/2009 at 6:18:26 AM
I'm on holiday in a public library at the moment (I mean visiting a library whilst on holiday).
Throwing the internal nuts into the handlebar to the correct place....that really drives me nuts (but not as much as Mary)!


           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA 24 posted by Ann Walsh on 11/12/2009 at 8:00:09 AM
I have recently seen a Raleigh Pashley for sale in a bicycle shop and would like to know how good and reliable this bike might be.
I fell totally in love with the look of this bike, but as it is considerately more expensive than some other bikes, I need to be a little bit practical in relation to the quality also.

Many thanks


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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Larz Anderson Bicycle swap meet Brookline Mass posted by: Joe Rapoza on 8/2/2009 at 5:14:19 PM
Greetings everyone,

Joe Rapoza here from the Larz Anderson Musuem bicycle show and swap meet.

Up for bids is one swap meet space at the Larz Anderson Bicycle Swap meet and Show.

This will be a spectular show something for the whole family.

You are bidding on choice of any vending space in the field that is designated bicycle vending space. Preimum spaces are located directly on the side of the MC podem and to the entrance of the show concoure

We will be having a show and swap meet on August 9, 2009 8:00 am to 3:00 pm vendors spaces are 25.00. for a 10 x 10 space.

We will be haveing a dedication ceremony for the great Jack Kowal "Mr. Columbia". and Sheldon Brown

This year we will be having a separate section dedicated to frame builders, all frame builders will be admitted to the show free of charge.

We expect that at least 1000 people will attend this years

Sponsorship spaces are available.

Please RSVP email me to let me know if you are planning to attend.

Please provide email address and phone number.

I thank you very much and look forward to hearing from you.

Joe Rapoza




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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   brake cable trouble posted by: mark on 7/31/2009 at 12:06:44 AM
Hello, i am trying to put new brake cable on my 48 Herc...and my "for dummies" question" is...is ths where you would either replace the caliper itself so as to have a "crimpable" cable at the end (as i was advised at the bike collective-i do have some correct size weinmanns) or is there some way to keep the old caliper with its "hook & ferrule"? is this what cable knaarps are for (as seen at Harris) and if so how do i use them? i realize this is a dumb ? but what takes 15 min for a normal person is 1-3 hours of mental/mechanical struggle for me--at least for the first time :) btw thanks for all the great advice you guys give here/have given me

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   brake cable trouble posted by David on 7/31/2009 at 2:09:15 PM
What the heck is a cable knaarp? Does this Herc use the type of cable that has a lead ball on each end (and the cable end just slips into the caliper)? It's probably similar to the hard-to-find Raleigh cable. I'd just replace the whole caliper with a less nice one that has the clamp.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: brake cable trouble posted by mark on 7/31/2009 at 9:39:23 PM
yes, my brake is similar to the Raleigh in that regard--as for cable knaarp--Sheldon Brown sells them as soution? for ths, bt am not clear on how they would work out.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   brake cable trouble posted by Keith Body on 8/2/2009 at 12:55:38 PM
Hi Mark, Using english terminology from 1960, your cable brakes have a brass nipple soldered each end. There are advantages in having open ended cables. Easier to adjust, vary the length and colour of the outer cable, replacement of inner wire only, easier to lubricate etc.
Basically 2 types of brass nipple at the lever end, pear shaped or barrel. These vary a little in size. The brake end will be pear-shaped.
Your Weinmann brakes should be better, just get a cable to suit. The difference between 1/4 inch and 6mm centre bolt does not matter. Just take care when tightening the cable eye bolts, as they are not made for motor mechanics.
It is not difficult to solder cables, use a soldering iron and corrosive flux. I will explain the method if anyone is interested.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   brake cable trouble posted by Matthew on 8/5/2009 at 1:56:51 PM
Hello Keith,

Please add a tutorial re; soldering cable ends. Thank you.

Matthew - soldering on.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   brake cable trouble posted by Keith Body on 8/6/2009 at 2:25:01 PM
Hi Matthew, Things have moved on a bit since I soldered brake cables. Always used Bakers No3 soldering fluid, corrosive flux. Used to dip a finger in it to apply a drop. (just counted them, can't remember how many I should have). Now I find there are reams of health and safety papers on this. It contains zinc chloride and hydrochloric acid, some of which evaporates when heated.
Also the solder was 40% lead.
The main thing to understand is that it's not the solder holding the nipple on, it's the mushroom shape created on the end of the wire, when filled with solder, that cannot pull through the nipple.
I would not use a flame, just a soldering iron. I found this, a bit over the top:
Which is motor inspired but has most of the essentials.
One of the most difficult things is finding and working some suitable wire cutters. We are dealing with multi-strand tempered steel (or stainless), but always tin the wire before cutting. Better not to use a flame, you will destroy the temper in the steel.
Don't try this on plastic, teflon, PTFE etc., coated wires, or those with solderless crimped ends.
Try taking the nipple off a redundant old wire first. Gently clamp the wire about 1/4 inch below the nipple, warm it up with the soldering iron and a spot of fresh solder, and as the old solder melts just tap the nipple along the wire with a small screwdriver or other suitable tool, I used an old blunt knife. You might reclamp the wire a bit further up, and then get the nipple clear of the solder. You will see the end of the wire bunched.
This is not the complete lesson, just a few pointers.


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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by: Steve on 7/28/2009 at 5:38:56 AM
Not strictly a Roadster topic, but possibly a contender for the "dim move of the day" award.

I required a replacement 16" x 2" front tyre for a an elderly tradebike (cycletruck), I suppose you could say the bike is half Roadster and half delivery truck.

Anyhow, I go a net surfing/hunting and come across a meaty looking Michelin VM100 2 - 16
I forward the virtual cash and tyre duly arrives two days later, but if you were to send a Raleigh Twenty on a moon fact finding mission....then this would be the perfect tyre.

Yes, it fits a twenty inch rim (not a 16"), so I read the very very very small print on the tyre wall....


God only knows what this tyre is really for (It's actually a very good quality tyre), but it ain't for my delivery bike, no doubt I will use it on something else....eventually !

Moral of the story is, if you want a 16" x 2" tyre, don't order a Michelin VM100 2 - 16 for DOT TEST USE IN NORTH AMERICA, because it's the wrong one.

Had the 2 - 16 been followed with (54 x 305), then I would have been on to a winner !

You live and learn, but remember....watch out for those "DOT testing North Americans"

Steve - tired

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by sam on 7/28/2009 at 5:01:34 PM
stay away from mo-ped tires,what you might try is:
Back by popular demand. Schwalbe City Jet 54-305 (16x1.95) 5 bar (80 psi) 348 g $18 (slick with grooves, black wall, made in Korea, the best 305mm tyre available!) Z.K.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Chris on 7/28/2009 at 6:30:07 PM
I had a set of 16 x 2.125 white made in england Michelins that I dearly wanted to fit onto my Raleigh Chopper or R.S.W. 16 and because it was .125 too large it would not work but wow, were those awesome and magical tires with the Michelin Bib guy and everything.

Sorry to hear you had trouble but neat to hear the way you describe the tire, even though it would not work for you you still described the tire in a positive light. One of the neat things about this are or were the beauty in even the tires. As usual, Sam comes to the rescue with expert advice.
I had one of these bikes that you mentioned.

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/29/2009 at 2:43:08 AM
KUDOS Chris... I grow so weary... and disturbed by folks that refer to "The Michelin Man"....

BIB... yes... the foreshortened version of... BIBENDUM....

And why does he look as he does... like a stack of TYRES????

I can't imagine....


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Bib... the man that embodies the colloquialism "spare tire".


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Steve on 7/29/2009 at 3:39:45 AM
Thanks gentlemen for the technical and Mr Blobby advice.

I did wonder if the tyre might have been for a mo-ped (or a wheelchair for drag racing).

Anyhow, I've just sourced a 54 x 305, so I should be o.k. now.

As a point of interest, I've just fitted a black 20 x 1.95 "Bronx" tyre on to a 20 x 1.75 Westwood rim, it's a modern day Westwood rim (hence the 20 x 1.75 marking as opposed to 20 x 1 3/4) with no makers details that I can see....it looks good though, and fits the Phillips Tradebike nicely.

Funny how a Roadster and its derivatives can eventually lead all the way down to a 16" wheel, but it's true....very rare, but true !

Meanwhile, I don't know if it's the same in the States, but the Michelin man artifacts (I know that's the wrong word, but I can't think of the right word that ends in "nia") are quite sought after here on the other side of "the pond".

Finally, I'm currently looking for a 16 x 1 3/4 or 16 x 2 Westwood rim, I'm having to use an Endrick rim at the moment....and use the front rod brake only in the event of a major life threatening emergency or an attractive lady wanting to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing !

Steve - memorabilia. michelinmanania ?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by sam on 7/29/2009 at 6:02:50 AM
or an attractive lady wanting to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing

Talk about being sweep off your feet by an English roadster!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Steve on 7/29/2009 at 11:56:00 AM
Take a look at eBay : 2 0 0 3 6 5 8 9 9 7 2 4

He's just one of many !

Now, should I buy one for my Roadster, or should I buy some flowers for my attractive wife instead ?


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Steve on 7/29/2009 at 1:26:30 PM
Maybe I should have said....long suffering (as well as attractive) wife !

Steve - you never know who's reading these things !

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by c on 7/29/2009 at 6:52:52 PM
Swept off feet by a cyclist, done in life is beautiful

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Kevin on 7/30/2009 at 7:50:58 AM
My Hercules trade bike (with rod brakes) had no tires when I got it. I never was able to find a tire for the 20" front, but a Schwinn middleweight S-7 (26 X 1 3/4) fit the rear rim perfectly. I ended up putting a regular 20-inch wheel on the front, and a Schwinn rear rim with coaster brake. The rods and stirrups are still there, but only for looks. I kept the old rims in case I ever sell it or find a front tire.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Steve on 7/30/2009 at 9:04:30 AM
Kevin, I was (and still am to a certain extent) in a similar position.

I managed to acquire a Techno 20 x 1 3/4 tyre for the Gundle 20 x 1 3/4 Westwood rim, and a Bronx (as mentioned above) 20 x 1.95 for the 20 x 1.75 Westwood rim, I'm not sure if the latter is supposed to fit....but it does !

I'm currently running a Hopper tradebike with a regular 16 x 2" rim on the front (rods and stirrups in place for show and emergency use only), but am on the look-out for 16 x 1 3/4 or even 16 x 2" Westwood rim (if there is such a thing) as 54 x 305 tyres are available.

I don't have much problem securing 26 x 1 3/4 stuff but, a year or two ago, Matthew mentioned that diverting into the field of tradebikes (cycletrucks) was like "entering the dark side" where people could be heard screaming and being chased by ghouls....sorry, he didn't say that last bit at all, I just invented it, but you know what I mean.

High gravity i.e. 26" tradebikes can be challenging on the original chunky parts front but, rough Low gravity tradebikes i.e. 20/26" (or even 18/26 and 16/26") will soon have you entering the tunnel of doom and gloom and have you questioning the meaning of life, and why am I doing this !

Well, I've just ridden something this afternoon for approximately six miles or so, it was a recent import direct from "doom and gloom R us"....and it was great !

Steve - Where there's a will....there's a way.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Kevin on 7/30/2009 at 4:33:24 PM
Steve -- It's nice to know I'm not alone with my trade bike tire woes. Low-gravity English trade bikes are really rare over here in the Midwest. I got my Hercules at a bike show at which everybody was buying and selling Schwinn Sting-Rays. I doubt that I will ever find a front tire that fits that odd front rim, but I keep looking. Even though the American rims aren't correct, the coaster brake is utterly reliable, and I would feel a lot safer going down a steep hill with it than with the original rod brakes. Still, I'd love to return the bike to its original configuration. It's a bit like having a Model A Ford with power brakes or an automatic transmission.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by David on 7/31/2009 at 2:12:14 PM
Once again, everyone should look at Sheldon Brown's tire sizing page and understand it!



           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Watch out for those North Americans ! posted by Steve on 7/31/2009 at 4:03:36 PM
Thanks David,

I'm going to copy it down, then highlight the bits that affect me mostly, then the tricky bit....attempt to remember (and understand) it !


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AGE / VALUE:   way cool CCM catalog posted by: sam on 7/27/2009 at 8:19:48 PM
This should be part of the Database!


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   way cool CCM catalog posted by Warren on 7/28/2009 at 7:32:03 AM
This one is also fab....great graphics and very early.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   way cool CCM catalog posted by JDuck on 7/29/2009 at 7:39:18 AM
Great stuff! If I use period stamps and currency, do you think I can place an order?

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   way cool CCM catalog posted by Chris on 7/30/2009 at 10:04:55 AM
Thanks for sharing this here and oh yes it should be added to the database here!

What is interesting for me in seeing this CCM catalog that Sam has told us about is that in my first few moments of looking through it online I saw a skip tooth sweetheart crank set that is identical almost to one I found in a ruined old shop in the ghetto of Detroit. Only the one I found was for a tandem! with a smaller one first and then the larger heart shapped skip tooth chainring!

It was incredible pulling that crankset out and sitting there on the cold wood floor holding that truly ancient artifact in my hand and sitting there totally stunned! It was exciting because one sits there wondering in amazement at what all else this place is gonna have? What else are you going to find? and you just keep looking in a hurry. This book sheds light for me about the crankset it's history and what bike it goes to, and who made it and the age of it. So it solves a mystery for me this CCM book on line and I'm glad to see it.

It shows the Schwinn sweetheart crankset was somebody elses before Schwinn got ahold of it.


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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by: LP on 7/27/2009 at 7:28:10 PM
I've got a Rudge bicycle. With AW Sturmey Archer, It's undated and the only numbers I can find on the frame. Are 82740 R near the seat and 557242 Z underneath the frame. Does anybody have any idea of the date.
Any help would be great.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by Steve on 7/28/2009 at 12:40:41 AM
I've not seen any Rudge dating information data, but I would guess the "R" has something to do with it.

Post a good clear photograph and let the comments roll-in.

However, your undated Sturmey Archer hub does make me wonder though, I have two "three speed" hubs here (one black, and one with lovely chrome work that does state AW) but I can't remember the reason for them being undated.

I'm guessing the black one is pre war, and the chrome one (which does state AW) is a later hub, it goes without saying that both are in Westwood rims.

I think we've hovered around this subject before, but I can't remember the outcome.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by LP on 7/28/2009 at 9:40:56 AM

Hey I posted some photos at the above link. Like you suggested.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by Matthew on 7/28/2009 at 10:25:03 AM
Hi there LP,

Late 40s or early 50s. The photos of the hub need to be further to the right to see if there are any date stamp figures showing at all.

Matthew - National health specs, do it for me.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by LP on 7/28/2009 at 3:41:20 PM
Hey I've updated the link with some photos likr you suggested.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by Steve on 7/29/2009 at 3:48:13 AM
It's so frustrating, but I would also go late forties/early fifties.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by LP on 7/29/2009 at 8:16:13 AM
What do the numbers 82740 R and 557242 Z which I've found on the bike represent then?

Thanks for your suggestions!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by Keith Body on 7/29/2009 at 12:54:49 PM
Hi LP, This Rudge I see as 1938 - 1948. My personal bet is pre WW2, as after there was a lot of black paint (to about 1947?) instead of chrome. The trigger is certainly no later than 1948.
Most British volume cycle makers modernised in the late 1930's, so you have better angles, fully brazed frame, wheel cones with lock nuts, and managable frame sizes.


           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by ken on 8/4/2009 at 10:44:50 AM
Here is a history of S-A triggers that describes yours as the first trigger, model GC-3. As always, Keith nailed it: 1938 - 1948 is the period attributed to it.
This is a large .pdf , 5.5 mb. I found it linked from Tony Hadland's site.
It's always a pleasure to find a nice photo that matches...

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by LP on 8/5/2009 at 7:35:53 AM
Hey all thanks for your messages, some interesting stuff in that PDF too, thanks alot for that Ken.
I was messing around with the back wheel this afternoon when I noticed the number '48' on the back side of the Cottered Crank do you guys think that this is the bate of the bike and since there is no date on the AW hub that it original to the bike?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Date posted by LP on 8/5/2009 at 7:39:25 AM
Ignore the above message

Hey all thanks for your messages, some interesting stuff in that PDF too, thanks alot for that Ken.
I was messing around with the back wheel this afternoon when I noticed the number '48' on the back side of the Cottered Crank do you guys think that this is the date of the bike and since there is no date on the AW hub. Also is the lack of date on the AW hub an indication of whether it is original to the bike?

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MISC:   Vintage Bicycle inventory coming to OldRoads posted by: Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 7/27/2009 at 5:52:28 PM
We don't ship during the cycling season, BUT!, we've put together a deal with a Massachusetts bike shop who DOES ship and who DOES NOT use da web!.
We will be posting their vintage inventory here.
They are a family-owned shop selling Schwinn, Raleigh and other makes for over 50 years. The depth of their inventory is amazing, I leave drooling every time I visit.
High end road bikes, Schwinn Sting-Ray Krates, Raleigh Tourists and Sports 3-speeds, big old balloon tire bikes - they have them all.
So, watch this space. I'm hoping to get it going this week, if I can get my daughter to help me...



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WANTED:   Hercules 48 stem post posted by: mark on 7/27/2009 at 4:31:04 PM
Hi, I have a 1948 Hercules Sports (per hub date) that has a bent stem post--since this is non-Raleigh I suppose I have more options? anyhow, does anyone have an inexpensive stem post that will work for this application--or point me where?
are there non-English parts that will fit? The current post does go in and out but is for sure skeewampus

           RE:WANTED:   Hercules 48 stem post posted by Warren on 7/28/2009 at 7:35:14 AM
Just about any steel stem would be appropriate as long as it has the same clamp diameter as your bars. Many bike shops will have these lying around for a fiver. I've got some but shipping from Canada is expensive.

           RE:WANTED:   Hercules 48 stem post posted by Keith Body on 7/28/2009 at 11:14:14 AM
Hi Mark, For very many years British cycles handlebar stem was 7/8 inch diameter. The fork column (steerer) was 1 inch outside. This includes Raleigh, Phillips, all racing and club bikes, in the standard design. Used to frequently straighten the steel handlebar stems, think gorilla and heave.
Usually resulted in some improvement. You would be surprised how easily these components can be bent (unbent), same as the front forks.

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AGE / VALUE:   sorry, it's dutchbikesseattle.com posted by: Kevin on 7/25/2009 at 1:09:26 PM
I left out an "s."

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   sorry, it's dutchbikesseattle.com posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/26/2009 at 4:02:28 AM
Very nice stuff...

Way overpriced for my liking... I wonder how sales are...


Larry "Boneman" Bone - 10x what I paid... for my first CAR even....

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Dutch Roadsters, delivered to your door posted by: Kevin on 7/25/2009 at 1:03:57 PM
Here's a company that imports classic Dutch roadsters and delivers them to your door in the US. Check this out: http://www.dutchbikeseattle.com



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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by: greg on 7/24/2009 at 6:41:40 PM
Well, I'm just getting to the DL-1 i bought back in December, the Handsworth one that sparked a bit of dicussion here. Been wiped down, shoe polished, proofhided & the fork thimble replaced. Plan on spending some good time going over it next winter but just want to get it roadworthy now. Cotter pin has been filed & the crank arms are nice & straight. So here's my questions:

Front fender mounts to the fork by a bracket that comes up thru the middle of he fender & bolts the fork. The fender has about an eighth of an inch of play & moves back & forth. Is this typical or should the fender be completely secure & not move.

The bolts that secure the rods in front of the head tube roll up over each other when the brakes are applied. Doesn't seem right. Is there a fix?

There's play in the rear hub. This is a single speed & it has an enclosed chaincase. Can it be tightened up w/o removing the wheel?

And last, how much oil should be in tne chaincase, what type & how does it get in there.

Thanks, Greg


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by Kevin on 7/25/2009 at 2:39:57 AM
A little play in the fender is OK, as long as the bolt holding it to the bike is secure. Loosen the rear hub nuts and pull back on the axle to tighten the back wheel, then tighten the tensioners to keep the wheel where you want it. Lubricate the chain and the rear hub, but not the chaincase itself. The chaincase is there to keep the chain and the rider clean.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by greg on 7/25/2009 at 9:58:40 AM
Thanks for the reply. I thought the chaincase might be like the Enfield's Primary case, just enough oil to keep the ptimary chain & bits lubed.

I guess I wasn't clear about the rear wheel. Its at the cone where there is play. With a bit of wheel wobble resulting.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by Bob Ferrante on 7/25/2009 at 11:14:05 AM
Great info. What type/viscosity oil should be used on the chain and into the oil hole in the hub? Thanks, Bob

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by Steve on 7/25/2009 at 12:29:50 PM
Have you adjusted the cone in order to take the play away.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by Keith Body on 7/25/2009 at 2:22:29 PM
Hi Greg, I was a Raleigh (and others) retailer in the 1950's. These bikes were not supplied to the home market. If the rear hub has no lock nuts on the cones, you adjust the left cone so that there is a little play at the rim, when you tighten the hub nut this will push the cone in a bit further. If it has a lock nut then you can adjust more accurately. Have you got a brake adjusting eye bolt under the bottom bracket? If so you may be able to stop the front eye bolts touching. The brake tubes on the front are screwed into the connectors, it may be possible to turn one a little. As I have never seen one of these (export only) thats as near as I can get.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by Kevin on 7/25/2009 at 6:19:03 PM
20-weight motor oil works well in three-speed SA hubs. As for an old stiff chain, I clean it first with a wire wheel on my bench grinder, dip it in used motor oil, and wipe it off with a rag.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   DL-1 questions posted by greg on 7/26/2009 at 2:42:20 PM
The joys of old mechanical things! Keith's advise about the left side adjustmet was spot on, no lock nut. However , once adjusted properly something started rubbing. By placing my thumb on the back of the chaincase & index finger on the axle & appling slight pressure, tada, no noise. there's a couple of small spots on the back of the case where the paint's rubbed off so after supper will try to pinpoint the source of the rub. Then on to the brake suggestion...


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WANTED:   fender bracket/brace posted by: Hannah on 7/23/2009 at 11:44:58 AM
I just need one piece to get this gift from a neighbor rolling again.

I need a replacement fender _bracket_ for the fender of a 1962 three speed Triumph. It's not the stay bar that runs parallel to the ground, but the brace for the top of the rear fender, the piece that attaches with the caliper.

My local bike shop doesn't have one, though they are usually quite good with parts. If anyone has one gathering dust, let me know.


           RE:WANTED:   fender bracket/brace posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 7/23/2009 at 12:31:12 PM
They sell 'em here too...


Scroll down a bit...


Larry "Boneman" Bone - mudguarded....

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ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Prop stand for trade bike posted by: Kevin on 7/23/2009 at 4:15:32 AM
The prop stand on my low-gravity Hercules trade bike is AWOL. I was thinking about trying to fabricate one out of conduit, or maybe the back section of a steel folding chair. Has anyone else out there attempted either? Any thoughts?


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Prop stand for trade bike posted by Steve on 7/23/2009 at 12:35:24 PM
No....but I have the exact same job to do on a 30's Gundle, once I've finished the bikes that are in front of it in the queue !

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AGE / VALUE:   hercules 50s posted by: sam on 7/22/2009 at 8:00:58 PM
I guess they think Jimmy can do miricles--50s M/Ws hathorn/hercules.Been setting in the shed way too long.
Sports bike with the curved bars and oiler port BB,Hercules 3speed hub.Very old tires.
Jimmy is a good bike guy,maybe....


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AGE / VALUE:   huffy bike posted by: edith on 7/22/2009 at 9:08:35 AM
i have a huffy kool kitten bike i got for my brithday when i turned six in 1970 cant seem to fine anther any were it has small tire in the front lg in the back bannana seat and sissy bar is mark huffy kool kitten

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   huffy bike posted by Matthew on 7/22/2009 at 11:26:28 AM
Try the Muscle Bike discussion board.

Matthew - cool cat not a hot rod.

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