OldRoads.com > Discuss: English 3-speeds
Discuss: English Roadsters Scroll Down For Messages


I'm selling the OldRoads.com website.

I started the site in 1995 and sold my retail shop in April of this year.

I'm retiring from the bike business.

Here's a link to the eBay auction:



All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Search 18 years of ARCHIVES:  

Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc. has set up this discussion area for the sharing of vintage and custom bicycle information. Anyone may add their opinions to this forum, as long as they follow the rules outlined below. We are not responsible for incorrect or misleading advise which may appear here.


All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from Menotomy Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Vintage Bicycle Discussion Area

English Roadsters

Post a new topic, or click an existing topic below:

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by: Christopher on 12/4/2008 at 7:52:46 PM
Well, I got the D.L.1. bike in my hands, mostly.... The box arrived, broken and missing pieces of cardboard, these holes in the box are where the loose parts in the bottom of the box fall out of. And fall out, some did!

I'm missing a seat, rod parts, a lot of other important parts as well! He just threw it in the box, the indicator chain nut sticking thru the cardboard was cute! I unscrewed it and put it in my pocket. then I opened the box..

The bike is filthy and there is rust to clean. I barely recognize it.

The other frame, fork and backstay that was thrown in the same box without any wrapping at all. It did a back and forth close rubbing motion that did a nice, long, down to bare steel scar on the frame. major cosmetic damage on the frame. the worst I have ever suffered.

So much for selling the bike here. I'm keeping it.

Still it is good to see it. and I have the backstay and original fork with the 26 inch frame Raleigh frame. This fork and the backstay could have fallen thru the holes in the box!
Thank God it did not! I have all three pieces!
Oh, the horror I'd go thru to replace those parts!
I was looking forward to recieving the bike and I had bought a tin of black shoe polish for the paint. I was going to polish it tonight.

The good thing is, these pieces were not in my storage unit that went to auction or it would have been lost.

I am going to type up instructions on how to properly and cleaverly box up a bike for shipping.

I will post it here in a few days and ask you all to comment and add your thoughts.
I would like to ask Vin to add this "Instructions for boxing up a bicycle for shipment"

to the top of the old roads.com page so visitors to this site can print it out and give it to bicycle shop people, packing store people, or whomever.

I have read, over and over on other sites about other people's horror stories about bicycles being damaged by careless bike packers. This lazyness/ ignorance can be corrected by proper instruction. Damage from a careless shipper is more or a challenge to counteract/ or prevent but let's give it our best effort.

The final draft, after your comments, after it is all knocked into shape, I wouls ask that it be posted, permanently here so folks can print it out to give to whomever will pack a bike for them.

There is no excuse for this.

I love Raleigh bicycles and this site, and this "How to properly pack a bike" project may be my best contributions to old bikes yet!

I thought my friend knew how to pack a bike. I guess I was wrong.

I don't want other bikes, belonging to other prople, to be damaged like this.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Chris on 12/4/2008 at 8:28:59 PM
The original paint was rubber based paint that Raleigh used.
And marred decals is the icing in the cake.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Kevin on 12/5/2008 at 5:31:04 AM
Sickening story, Christopher. The same thing has happened to me, so I refrain from having bikes shipped. I just drove 130 miles to pick one up in person. As for packing, you can go to expertvillage.com and type in "packing a bicycle" to see videos on how to do it. I also have seen detailed information posted on the collector's forum (under Heritage) at schwinn.com. No need to reinvent the wheel, as they say ...

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/5/2008 at 6:22:52 AM
Christopher... If you're in need of rod parts to get her up and running, let me know. I recently stripped all the rod-brake parts off an Abley to convert it....

They're of course, not British or original... but... they're available... and the price ($0.00) is probably close to being right, the? ;-)

Sorry to hear of the debauchery. What amazes me... in this.... "Service Economy".... is that there are so many out there... that are utterly inept.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Packaging Professional... and damn proud of it.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Steve on 12/5/2008 at 7:26:02 AM
I suppose I've been quite lucky...so far, mind you I haven't really purchased an out and out beauty in good condition.
Most bikes arriving here are embarrassing to look at or have the mileage equivalent to an Apollo space mission and look as though they have crash landed in Farmer Browns mucking out yard on their return from Outer Space, then lain undisturbed for a minimum of thirty years hence acquiring an allover reddish brown patina (rust) before an excited Mr Muggins (me) comes along to collect them.

This brings a new meaning to collecting a pile of sh*t !

Fortunately, I happen to travel a considerable amount around the UK and try to "wangle" it so that I can collect the bike on an empty return journey (sometimes admitedly with a slight detour).

The plus side of living on a "little" island !

How about this...I purchased a very tidy completely uninteresting 1970's utility bike (for my wife) via eBay from Glasgow, Scotland around two years ago and made use of the very cheap delivery service. It arrived here (410 miles south) in the back of a white van in record time with no wrapping whatsoever, complete with peddles, wheels, un-turned handlebars all intact and no scratches, we got it out of the delivery van and rode up and down the street on it with no problems.
The negative was that the frame was just too small, so I put it straight back on eBay...sold it within five days to someone who lives five minutes away, and made £10 profit !

Steve - it's a funny old world !

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Steve on 12/5/2008 at 7:35:55 AM
Christopher, I'm sure you'll get the old girl put right, in the fullness of time.
The nearest I've got to this, is having a "the Challis" bell arrive here with the securing clamp gone missing, It's a fantastic bell, but it ain't much use without the clamp !

Steve - clueless, sorry clampless !

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Chris on 12/5/2008 at 9:15:56 AM
I would like a page header thing here on old roads.com

We sell cleaning kits and soon, t- shirts. I would like a section here that instructs folks to box and ship a bike properly. I don't want to go to another place on the web I want old roads.com to offer "one stop shopping" so to speak. Folks come here for help with their old bike, so lets help them. Make it easy.

Please Vin? I don't want my bike to be maimed for nothing!
Fellas, please add your thoughts and help me out.

We don't have a thing written here yet on how to box a bike and we have cleaver minds here and we have learned the hard way from experiences (bad ones) please, can we do this here.

I don't care about credit, I just want to do this.


           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Chris on 12/5/2008 at 9:18:32 AM
Steve, keep asking about. Somebody has the clamp for your bell in their parts stash, or hoard, Save the bell, those are expensive keep asking!
those clamps are out there. Thanks for alll your replies,. When I get over this sore throat I will have a list of what I need.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Steve on 12/5/2008 at 10:09:54 AM
Thanks Chris. If anyone reading this does happen to have a "The Challis" bell handlebar securing clamp lying around idle that they would like to see go to good use on a real bike, please contact me.

I'm currently using the bell in my office (I work from home), whenever I want a cup of tea with some strawberries and cream or a piece of cake, I simply ring the bell from the hand held position, wait for approximately five minutes whilst one of my servants prepares the designated order and then delivers it to me on a silver platter with a napkin tucked inside one of those fake solid silver hoops...I'm not at all happy with this, it's simply not using the bell to it's maximum capacity !

Incidentally, I've just acquired a nice elderly double rotating sides Adie bell, it's good fun, but not a patch on "The Challis" for quality or ring tone.

Steve - the bells, the bells !

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/5/2008 at 10:31:56 AM
Uhm.... we could start with a link maybe?


Not a bad methodology either.

If I were to procure a bicycle on Ebay... I would include that link in my "special instructions to shipper"....

Of course... it could be hopeless anyhow... but.... leverage for dispute down the line.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Packing is essential.

Larry "Boneman" Bone

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Steve on 12/5/2008 at 11:05:20 AM
Looking on the "other side of the coin", I have been involved with mainly live cargo (human) transportation over the years, but occasionally, cargo that doesn't answer back (i.e. parcel freight) and I can confirm that when the going get's tough and schedule/deadline/times have to be met (or else there's a financial penalty) and that parcel has to go in that hold...no matter what, things can get a little frantic and gentle handling will go "straight out of the window" !

Just thought you might like to know...but you probably knew anyway.

Steve - boxed in


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles on 12/6/2008 at 6:10:25 AM
I'm all for putting up a "How to Pack and Ship a Cycle" page under the General Resources above.
Let's refine the instructions. Here's a start:

1) Get two bike boxes from your local bike shop (one for shipping, one for packing materials)

2) Remove the wheels, fenders, pedals, handlebars/stem, seat/seatpost.

3) Cut the sides off of the donor box and place them in the bike box to give it double walls

4) Do the same with the bottom of the box

5) Loosen the handlebar binder bolt and wrap the handlebar ass’y in cardboard.

6) Place the frame into the box, allowing the handlebar/stem ass’y to hang in front of the fork.

7) Cut a bunch of 6” cardboard squares, put a hole in the middle of each and push them on to the wheel axles until the axles are covered.

8) Place the wheels in the box making sure you use enough cardboard to protect the frame.

9) Loosen the seat binder bolt and fold the seat post down into the seat.

10) Wrap the pedals in newspaper

11) Wrap the pedals and seat ass’y in newspaper and place them in a plastic bag along with any other bagged small parts

12) Tie this bad to the frame.

13) Ship via UPS, FedEx, DHL (I think DHL is stopping domestic shipping).

14) Be sure your box is under the shipper’s “Oversize” rules.


           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Chris on 12/6/2008 at 8:09:32 AM

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Stephen Hogben on 12/6/2008 at 3:23:14 PM
After reading messages on mailing (Posting) I would like to add this,that old 1936 Rudge Whitworth Brooks saddle finally found somebody that wanted it!They lived in Texas U.S.A.I live about 20 miles from London and posted it to them on Monday 24th November at 1 00 PM. I was told it was a 10 day service. HA HA! It has still not arrived (December 6th) upon enquiry at the Post Office I was told that this service excluded weekends,Bank Holidays,and presumably days with a Y in it! Was told they might get it approx dec 11th.Was wrapped in newspaper,hope it survives!I'm sure the person waiting for it thinks he will he will never get it!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by sam on 12/6/2008 at 8:23:11 PM
Block the frame!Put a block in the rear drop-outs.Also use foum pipe insulation on the frame.Be sure to cardboard around the sprocket so it will not eat through the box bottom--nuttin like having your TA chainring dragged to Texas!

           RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Joe on 12/6/2008 at 11:09:55 PM
I've saved up a bunch of those fork protectors over the years from a local shop owner here. Depending on the bike and how fragile that particular frame or fork is, I'll often opt for just installing a junk hub or axle.
I've been on the recieving end of far too many carelessly packed bikes, many coming from shops who were paid to pack them correctly. It's been my experience that most shops don't want any part of packing and shipping a bike. Either do it yourself or find another method.
I've shipped dozens of bikes over the past 8 years or so and have yet to have any damage, but on incoming bikes it's been a different story. When shipping anything, you pretty much have to assume the worst possible handling. I've also found Never to mark it fragile, that only seems to invite damage from disgruntled shipper employees.
I've had the best luck with Fed Ex, UPS has destroyed 5 bikes, lost in the last 5 years.
(Just had a guy ship me several antique outboard drive shafts, he put them in a too small box, no packing and they slid out the corner, he had no clue how it happened).
I find that the more carrier friendly you make a box, the less likely it will be it gets damaged. A tired, upset driver or truck loader is less likely to get mad at your package if it's easy to handle. I cut in or add handles or staple on lifting straps to make loading it easier, and it also helps to determine the top of the box.

I had a UPS driver here one day who was using several new bike boxes, (with bikes inside), as a step stool to get to other items. The bikes were destined for the local bike shop. They were piled on their side, in the isle being walked on all day since the bike shop was at the end of the route. I called the bike shop owner to inform him of what to expect, he refused all three bikes.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Chris on 12/7/2008 at 7:05:12 PM
I forgot to mention that the first time the driver pulled up to the store I work at, the bike was on the list and was supposed to be in the truck but it was not and I got inside the U.P.S. truck to help the guy look for it and we didn't find it. he had the tracking number but it was not in his truck and here he was, there to deliver it to me without it.
It appeared later the same day, on one end, leaning against the building, outside the building, nobody checked it in. leaning on the wrong end too.

It's just very heartbreaking to hear of this happening so often. I'm pleased with the comments on this so far.

           RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Joe on 12/8/2008 at 1:21:43 PM
The whole subject of UPS and bikes shipping gets me so mad I could spit nails, between a seller or bike shop that just don't care how they pack a bike to a driver that's upset that he has to handle a box that weighs more than a pound or two ends up with what may have been a nice bike becoming a pile of parts at best. Over the past few years I've had bent frames, smashed wheels, missing parts, and a slew of other damage done. It is odd that it's always been UPS every time there was damage. I've had bikes dropped at the roadside with the driver never coming to the door. One was left at the curb along side of trash cans out for weekly trash pickup. If a neighbor hadn't gone out and grabbed it, you know where it would have ended up. When I complained, I was told that someone had signed for the box. The driver wrote 'Garage' in the signature box. After seeing that, they said that meant the box was left in front of my garage, which was even funnier since I don't have a garage.

The best experience I've had so far when it comes to shipping was a local branch of a national moving company. I had an old trike that had to go cross country from NJ to CA, the address was in North Hollywood. The buyer didn't want the bike taken apart. I was talking to a buddy who's wife worked for a moving van company and was advised to call the local office and see how much they would charge, they wanted under $70 to take it whole, but I had to wait till a truck was heading that way, that was agreeable to the buyer and it took only a week for the bike to leave. When I dropped off the trike, they set it in a huge plastic clam shell bin, made just for such items, it was bungee corded down, and strapped closed.
(Kind of like a big suitcase made to fit bicycles made from black plastic). The customer called me about a week later saying that the bike had arrived and that they had called her in advance, met her at the door, unpacked the bike, took away the box and wished her luck and were on their way. All for under $70. That was a few years ago so I suppose that rate too has increased but the bike arrived just as it left, no damage, no rough handling, no reassembly required. They were simply filling space on a truck, so long as time wasn't real important it was the perfect solution.
I've also had bikes delivered by anonymous truck drivers who shuffled them across country. They arrive whole and undamaged. A bike seems to fair better tied to the wall in a truck than in a box being walked on and thrown about like a piece of junk by some UPS driver.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Steve on 12/8/2008 at 2:00:55 PM
This all sounds, oh so familiar.

Passengers turning up with bikes and prams for coach (bus) travel were despised of, admittedly they weren't boxed hence they snagged (got caught) on just about anything you could thing of whilst in the hold.

I took four bikes (perfectly legal) on a train this year...all survived because I secured them to the side of the carriage wall (inside, this is not India) with an inertia belt mechanism !

I had an eBay purchase bike vanish last year into thin air,
the seller was a con merchant, I got him struck off !

Oh well, lets think of leafy country lanes, pretty birds, warm mornings, no traffic and a lovely classic bike...the joys of a wonderful pastime.

Steve - just in from the cold.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by mark on 12/8/2008 at 2:18:02 PM
i had a 2 stroke motor shipped to me on greyhound parcel.well it looked as though they were playing hockey with the package,with front end loaders.the cylinder was snapped off the motor.i cant imagine the force it would take for that to happen?then a greyhound shipping employee re tapped the box with clear packing tape,about 300 yards,it took me an hour to un tape the box at the terminal.i was in shock.the counter person said-things happen?i said its almost impossible to break a cylinder off a motor.the con rod snapped at the flywheel.i got 78 bucks insurance and left.i never used greyhound again.i use dhl.or fed ex.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Matthew on 12/8/2008 at 2:48:06 PM
I wasn't going to comment but here goes.

I think Vin has done an excellent job here so can't add to directions of how to do it.

When I have shipped bikes, which is rare as I would rather deliver them into the hands of a purchaser, I have bubble wrapped the frame tubes. If not bubble wrap then pipe insulation. Lots of heavy cardboard around the front forks and rear drop outs, wheels wrapped separately and then tied or taped to the frame, pedals and chain weel off and wrapped separately then tied / taped to frame. More card and more insulation then wrap the whole lot up in one big parcel. All the feedback I have got is 'excellent packing'. It can take hours to do but I would rather never have a bike trashed in transit.

I have received heavy parts in remains of brown envelopes or jiffy bags which look post-apocalyptic.

Matthew - its a wrap

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by laurence Peter on 12/9/2008 at 6:50:03 PM
Regarding how to properly box a bike. This past April, I had the opportunity to acquire a vintage 1959 Rudge in excellent condition. I live in Michigan and the bike was being shipped from Virginia. So...I circumvented the potential shipping problem with broken frames and all. I jumped into my Dodge Calibur and drove the six hundred miles and picked it up myself! I'd say about 1200 miles in 24 hours. A very worthwhile investment considering the prize.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   how to properly box a bike project posted by Chris on 12/9/2008 at 8:08:17 PM
I think we should put at the top of the page, Pick it up yourself, in person, at the top of the page. With the cheap gas, and this beigh the safest way to ship something is to collect it yourself and bring it back safely in your car with old blankets keeping it from getting scratched. There really is something to be said for driving and having the joy of collecting it in person.

You can inspect the bike, check for a bent fork, look it over with your own eyes, it deters fraud/ screw ups as well, if you go in person. You can ask to see if there are tools, or bike catalogs or things forgotten like bike lamps. They may have another bike in their garage they were not going to sell, but when you are there for your bike you can always offer and buy more than you were going to.

Yes, at the top of the page we should extoll the virtues and benefits of not shipping the bike at all...

But, for those who need to ship something, we are gonna open up with both barrels and blast them, but good! with the ideas , experience, tricks of the trade of some of the sharpest minds in old bicycles.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   An Icon for sale on Ebay posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/4/2008 at 3:47:14 AM
Item: 150313377070

Wish I could afford this baby....

Even better.... I wish the creator was still with us.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - getting wishy washy....

           RE:AGE / VALUE:  Sheldon Brown's bicycle collection is up on e- bay posted by Christopher on 12/4/2008 at 8:30:36 AM
Well, It's happening! Sheldon Brown's wife is selling Sheldon Brown's bicycle collection. The auction is being handled by Sheldon's friend John Allen.
I believe we will see the rest of it as well.
Everybody watch and perhaps bid. these are historic moments and these bikes are like celebrities to us all.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   An Icon for sale on Ebay posted by Matthew on 12/4/2008 at 11:38:37 AM
Well folks,

It must be very sad for the Brown family to let these machines go. Sadly letting them go won't bring back Sheldon.

Matthew - thoughtful

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   An Icon for sale on Ebay posted by David on 12/4/2008 at 3:10:00 PM
Unlike most ebay bikes, you know these are in good condition and the seller is honest. I hope she gets good prices for these.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   An Icon for sale on Ebay posted by Mike on 12/6/2008 at 9:41:48 AM
What happened to it? It's gone. Someone make 'em an offer they couldn't refuse?

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by: Mark in Santa Barbara on 12/1/2008 at 7:23:17 AM

A colleague asked me about tire size for a small-wheeled Raleigh, and I'm at a loss. I told her I'd ask the lads (you-all).

Here's a couple photos to get the discussion rolling:




Any info would help. It's clearly not 26 inches. I find not reference to it in St. Sheldon's site.

Many thanks,

Mark in Santa Barbara

           RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 12/1/2008 at 9:30:58 AM
That appears to be a 24" tyre. As to the width... I'm unsure. These "mini" sports, while not uncommon, weren't quite as ubiquitous as the 26" wheeled version.

I daresay you're looking for a 24 a 1 3/8 tyre.

Don't know if these would be suitable.... but here's a link:


Hope that's at least close to the mark!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Tired vs. Tyred. It's a British thang!


           RE:RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by Warren on 12/1/2008 at 3:14:19 PM
Zoom into the rim chart at the bottom of this poster.


It's one of 3 24 inch tires....likely the 1st one....24 x 1 3/8 or E5. Very hard to find

           RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by sam on 12/1/2008 at 5:55:11 PM
24X1&3/8 wheelchair tires.(gray)
Finding a set in black may be a bit harder

           RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by Mark in Santa Barbara on 12/1/2008 at 6:38:49 PM
As always, one can depend on the breadth and depth of the collective knowledge here.

I appreciate it very much.


Mark in Santa Barbara

           RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by Jeff R on 12/1/2008 at 7:20:41 PM
What you have is a Raleigh Space Rider. It has 24 X 1 3/8 tires and they are still avaiable in black. I gave one to my sister inlaw as she is small and could not place her feet on the ground on a full sized sports. The pedal cranks are also shorter, 6" insted of 6 1/2". In the early 50's the 24" wheeled bikes were called junior models.

           RE:RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by Chris on 12/1/2008 at 7:46:53 PM
The grey wheelchair tires have the old Dunlop tread pattern and grey tires look good on the bike and the rubber used is of good quality too.

           RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by Jeff R on 12/2/2008 at 4:23:46 AM
Go to Sheldon Brown's web site, find Raleigh 3 speeds and then type Space Rider in the Google search and you will find info on the bike.

           RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by sam on 12/2/2008 at 2:23:33 PM
Jeff's right--several brands do make 24x1&3/8

           RE:RE:MISC:   Small-wheeled Sports posted by ken on 12/4/2008 at 11:29:22 AM
Yes, but it's the 540, right, not the 547? I had this problem with a Raleigh years ago, but I've forgotten which one it was (and which one I wound up having to eat...)
Please report when you have a definitive answer.
I suggest we take Sheldon's advice and use the ISO dimension when we know it. Knowing it's 24x 1 3/8 doesn't identify it.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   cargo bikes posted by: sam on 11/28/2008 at 7:32:25 PM

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   cargo bikes posted by Matthew on 11/29/2008 at 5:32:47 AM
Trikes http://www.businessonwheels.co.uk/gallery.php

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   cargo bikes posted by CHRIS on 11/29/2008 at 9:06:13 AM

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Legnano...wow posted by: Warren on 11/28/2008 at 6:20:23 PM
Look at this little time capsule. The most detailed pics of any auction ever posted.

ebay item 280288088148

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Legnano...wow posted by Steve on 11/29/2008 at 12:06:14 PM
Wow, hmmm......

That's quite something :-

To be hidden away for 25 - 30 years !
It's certainly the most photos I've ever seen for one item.

Would this be called a mixte frame ?

Good to see a 100% feedback rating and finance/payment details, I had my C/C details cloned recently in....Poland !

Looks nice to me, but I know nothing about them.



           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Legnano...wow posted by Mike on 12/1/2008 at 9:00:53 AM
Is this a bottom of the barrel Legnano or Chinese-made knock-off? The components look pretty antiquated and the workmanship kind of rough. Cottered crank?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Legnano...wow posted by David on 12/2/2008 at 3:53:38 PM
The seller has had a bunch of 'em. I think they're real Legnanos; obviously utility bikes and not racers, though. Legnano is a maker (like Peugeot, Raleigh, Schwinn, Bianchi, etc.) that made a full line from cheap kids' bikes up to out-and-out racers.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Legnano...wow posted by Warren on 12/7/2008 at 4:37:03 PM
Waddayamean cottered cranks! Looks like Gipiemme...Campy derailleurs too. 3ttt stems and bars. Legnano branded Silca pump could get a mini bidding war and make $100. Made in Italy. The bike has some mojo and is really worth the price. I know it's a cheap frame but it's no Huffy. Put a basket on it and lug groceries around in style. Look beyond the obvious.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   still sore over the bike theft posted by: Chris on 11/26/2008 at 8:51:39 PM
Having difficulty in casting out the demon in the movie "The Exorcist" the junior priest exclaims "Take me! Take Me!"
Well, my Raleigh Tourist D.L.1. is on it's way to rendezvous with me here. I am wondering "Well, are you gonna lose this bike as well?" I had the B.S.A. stolen here and the bike thieves are bad, this is a big city. I'll be screaming at the bike thief "Take me! Take me!" Leave the bike!"
Another movie that comes to mind is "Corvette Summer" with a young Mark Hamel from "Star Wars" fame. They pull a junk corvette out of the junk yard, restore and soup it up to a pimped out, super vette. Only it gets stolen so the kid goes searching for it. He finds the thieves, ends up working at the shop with them where they explain: It's not personal, kid," and they like his work and so they let him work with them stripping and re- painting the cars. Everything works well, until he steals back the corvette. All heck breaks loose. Good movie! Anyways, I haven't resorted to the Oujia board to locate the missing B.S.A. paratrooper bike but it still really drives me crazy when I think about it. I wonder," Where is it??" And I sent for my Raleigh Tourist bike? It's going to go everyplace I do!

I am not having another bike stolen. I am very determined this time.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   still sore over the bike theft posted by Steve on 11/27/2008 at 2:13:19 AM
A message to everyone...watch out !

Recession + hard times = thefts x scumbags

Result = pain for you and joy for them.

Don't expect too much assistance from the lawman, he's got limited resources and much bigger scumbags to deal with.

Velocipedial Vigilante (St*ve)


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by: Christopher on 11/26/2008 at 8:03:48 PM
I have made some new friends here in my new home town. Blessings and oportunity, Both! and I see people riding three wheel rickshaws or Tri- shaws only these are Worksman type heavy duty carts/ bicycles that are for selling ice cream or snow cones or other food items. You see hot dog carts downtown as well. Many of these contraptions (forgive me) are modified bicycles.
I was offered a ice cream bar and I told him: "No." and I shook my head. He offered again and he handed me a pure bananana frozen popsicle. Not just flavored but real bananana! Yow! are they good! Never had one before, things are different here!
Back home, I saw an bicycle/ ice cream cart on display in Michigan (but few in actual use). at the Macinac Island's Grand Hotel, where the movie "Somwewhere in Time" was filmed. As a collector,- except for pictures and catalogs showing the British stuff, that was all I'd seen. I saw heavy duty worksman bikes at the beaches for rent but, You never really see an actual hot dog cart and selling ice cream? Not from where I was living. Not anyplace. Well, I have written before about the awesome book "Chasing Rickshaws" but that is for a slightly different thing. Those are that use our wheels from our Raleigh Tourist bicycles. The same 28 x 1 1/2 inch Westwood rims are used in rickshaws and trishaws. But food carts here are different they use heavy duty 26 x 2.125 wheels. I have a pal who has one in his shed but it not for sale. (It's huge, these folks don't fool around!) However his dad has one for sale............ and as he says: "you can put 400 pounds weight on the front and sell almost anything." Well,...... I'm buying the bike and going to get set up selling something, riding around town like they do. I'm going to learn the ropes and I have ideas. I've never ridden one of these before and it's not an easy thing to maneuver about. It's going to be an experience!

The book, "Chasing Rickshaws" does not cover food vendor's modified bicycles! and I'm embarrised to report I don't know the proper term for the 3 wheel bicyle- ish food vendor's bike. What do you call it? Also, finding a book or books on this subject, both the new stuff and also skipping backwards through time studying the history of it will be new waters to sail through. I saw roasted cashews sold in Toronto, Canada but that was a cart and what I see here is sold from Worksmann type industrial bikes.
Anyway's I don't have to move to India to be a rickshaw driver! My mind is working on gearing issues already!

Why don't they have gas powered bicycle type motors attached to these hulking bikes? It's because of the fact the thing has food items on it. I'm sure!

I will be writing on this subject and keep you all updated on my adventures.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by Chris on 11/26/2008 at 9:23:53 PM
I remember reading about a fellow in England in the 1960's who has a forge and he traveled about shoe-ing horses with his modified motorcycle side car aparatus.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by Steve on 11/27/2008 at 2:37:12 AM
In the 1960's we used to have a man visit our cottage (in the middle of nowhere) on a bike fitted with all the relevant equipment, to sharpen all our bladed utensils/tools.
Those were the days when I was scared to go to the outside toilet at nightime (even with the lovely smelling paraffin lamp),the wind would howl underneath the well worn wooden door hence shake the latch and frighten the living daylights out of me, I was convinced the bogey man was going to get me !

Funny how you don't forget those things i.e. the red metal Tri-ang peddle car and the four wheeled push-along dog on a frame (which may also have been Tri-ang).

Steve - living in the past (as usual)

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by sam on 11/27/2008 at 6:49:46 AM
They're three wheeled cycletrucks.Threre is this great place on Frio City Road where they load up with wonderful ice-cream bars made in Mexico every morrning and head out.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by Chris on 11/27/2008 at 6:33:28 PM
Thanks! they must be the folks who make the bananana ice cream bars. Thank You, really. Thank You!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by Matthew on 11/28/2008 at 10:15:38 AM
Here in England the tricycles made for delivering and selling ice cream were made by a long defunct company called Warwick. These were used by the famous Wall's Ice Cream company and lead to their famous by line, 'Stop me and buy one!' During WW2 (I have told this tale before) many of these trikes were pressed into RAF service and were used to train navigators. A compass in a gimble was mounted where the ice cream tub would have been and the navigators had to pedal across the airfield navigating by compass!

Pashley made (make) these trikes too and there was one on eBay recently. They weren't converted bicycles they are specially made tricycles.

As for me anything made of or tasting like banana is a turn off. Sorry but YUK!

My pedal car was a Triang Gadabout 1968 model and I sold it after 35 years of ownership. I never had the wheeled dog but my sister's stuffed rocking horse was made by Triang and my children had a 1960s tin Triang rocking horse too.

Matthew - nostalgia isn't what it used to be ( and it doesn't come wrapped in brown paper anymore).

Ps They are now making a high speed stairlift, to get you to the top before you forgot why you were going upstairs!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by Bryan on 11/28/2008 at 11:41:05 AM
...And where abouts is this new paradise Chris? Sounds like a lot of interesting bikes there. I love seeing bikes being used for utilitarian purposes, and you just don't see that in a lot of places.

Good luck on the new beginning.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   A new chapter! An exciting time in paradise posted by Steve on 11/28/2008 at 12:13:07 PM
Hmmm...I wished I could have a pound for everytime I've forgotten why I went upstairs !

Moving on, I've just come home from Regent Street in the West End of London and couldn't help but notice a rickshaw (that's not what the black taxi/cab drivers call them)...anyhow, the white lights attached to the front of the bike (trike) were quite impressive and reminded of the old days (here we go again) when you would see a steam engine approaching in the distance in the dark displaying three lights in a triangle formation (two attached above the buffer beam and one above the smoke box door) thus denoting express passenger train, the rickshaw tonight was definitely no express and the pilot looked somewhat relieved to get off the road to a place of safety.

Rickshaws in London are despised by some but have there uses for others (especially in the evening).

I would ride one for myself, but I wouldn't fancy a complete stranger steering me through busy irritated traffic.

Rick Shaw - (St*ve)


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Happy Thanksgiving posted by: Chris on 11/26/2008 at 4:17:43 PM
Happy Thanksgiving to all my oldroads.com friends

I saw a Winebago camper here in town today and it had an enclosed chaincase tandem on it (painted on) so whoever they were, they are classic British bicycle enthuiasists. They kept on going on down the road. I stood and looked .



[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   wtb enclosed beaten chaincase hercules 30s posted by: mark on 11/26/2008 at 3:37:22 PM
i want a full chaincase for my hercules,30s era.after talking with a few uk blokes im finding that they came with a hockey stick chain guard,and enclosed.i want an enclosed chain guard!i saw a few aftermarket ones and dont really like the aesthetic of them.so if anyone has one beaten or good,let me know..thanks .

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   wtb enclosed beaten chaincase hercules 30s posted by Kevin on 11/26/2008 at 5:05:46 PM
What size bike do you have -- 26 inch or 28 inch wheels?

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   wtb enclosed beaten chaincase hercules 30s posted by Kevin on 11/26/2008 at 5:07:36 PM
I asked the above question because the chaincase on my Roadster is longer than the chaincase on the Sports.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   wtb enclosed beaten chaincase hercules 30s posted by mark on 11/26/2008 at 9:00:43 PM
hello kevin,i shoulda put that in.its 28 inch wheels.its a full size bike.heres a pic.thanks


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by: Chris on 11/25/2008 at 4:24:06 PM
Vin, can we see the piece of aretwork the t- shirt shop has or is the final product going the be a surprise?

Now us trashpickers have compettition abd they have wings!

Looking forward to this!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by Vin - Menotomy Vintage Bicycles on 11/26/2008 at 4:56:53 AM
The back of the shirt has this artwork (see photo link) and the front left chest has something else.
The shirts are black and the heaviest weight cotton I could get. The ink is yellow.
I chose to do a small quantity of them on this first run to see how well they do.
We should have them in a week or two and I'll take some pix of them on a live human.


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by Steve on 11/26/2008 at 5:27:02 AM
A live human...thank God for that !

Herman Munster - Steve

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by Carl on 11/26/2008 at 8:34:16 AM
Looking forward to seeing them!

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by chris on 11/26/2008 at 9:10:57 AM
Change the artwork, the fairies are ugly. Please don't make this the final product and the one Raleigh d.l.1. is too large

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by Bryan on 11/26/2008 at 3:24:16 PM
Can't please everyone I guess, but I for one, think it looks great.

Thank you for doing this Vin, I think its a fun project.

Snow riding in Pittsburgh today,


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   t- shirt posted by mark on 11/26/2008 at 3:36:37 PM
im buying one.it will look different than that pic.i have seen artwork and went meh,then saw the shirt and really liked it.even if i dont like it,, i need a shirt.shirtless in cold canada.im lying its not cold where i live,im 150 miles west of seattle. a stones throw from there.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   WOODS VALVE INNER TUBES posted by: Jim Coffed on 11/25/2008 at 10:59:39 AM
I am recommisioning my father's '73 Raleigh Roadster (Tourist. I would like to get the correct 28 x 1-1/2 inner tubes with Woods Valve for the bike. Does anyone know where I can get these inner tubes in the USA

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   WOODS VALVE INNER TUBES posted by Chris on 11/25/2008 at 4:23:06 PM
It does not need to be that exact down to the tire tubes valves. Schrader, Woods, or Presta as long as the brakes are good and the tires in good shape.
You can use a presta valve equiped tire and it is close enough appearence wise and the Presta valve is the best valve made. The Woods valves are prone to leakage.

In the U.S.A. we didn't see the Woods valve that is a "European thing"

With the rise of the 700 c wheel bikes us 28 inch wheel bike riders now have modern tubes with the best valve available the Presta valve.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course 12 Speed posted by: Peter Weinstein on 11/24/2008 at 4:30:17 PM
I own a Raleigh Super Course 12 Speed Racing Bike with Thunmb Shifters. I bought the bike in 1979. It is, however, on a small frame. I rarely rode the bike. Itnis in excellent shape with exceptuion that it has been hanging in my garage for the last ten years. I had it taken down and gone over about three years ago and it needs to be cleaned and gone over again, but I ould rather sell the bike to someone who respects classic English made racing bikes of that era. It really is a cool and beautiful bike. Does anyone have any idea what a bike like this is worth.I paid $500.00 in 1979.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course 12 Speed posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 11/25/2008 at 3:40:47 AM
Well... I was perusing one over the summer at a yard sale. Completely original... by that, I mean every last speck of dirt to attach itself to the machine since new... was still there. Original tyres... that while holding air.... were completely shot.

They wanted $400 for it... cuz "That's what they're selling for on Ebay".

So I told them to go ahead and LIST it on ebay and walked away.

Now... that being said... yours, having "provenance" and sounding as if it was actually cared for over time SHOULD command more.

Best of luck selling it... and yes... I absolutely appreciate you wanting it to go to a proper home... where it will be revered and excersized like the retired thorobred that it is.



Larry "Boneman" Bone - Ebay... the bane of garage (tag) sales everywhere.... ;-)


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course 12 Speed posted by Warren on 11/25/2008 at 6:44:17 AM
Just my 2 cents but $400 should get you a nice double butted bike with good components. I love Super Courses because of the mojo factor but I'd have a hard time paying more than a hundred for one.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course 12 Speed posted by David on 11/26/2008 at 6:12:20 AM
I gotta agree with Warren; you're unlikely to do better than a hundred or two. Of course, with ebay, you never know!

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Super Course 12 Speed posted by Chris on 11/27/2008 at 6:36:29 PM
love those r- nuts the prices they fetch is well, nuts.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   1935 Brookes saddle posted by: S.H. on 11/23/2008 at 3:17:39 PM
That old saddle finally found a a home in Houston Texas,U.S.A.!


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   front brake posted by: Michael on 11/22/2008 at 5:42:25 PM
I have an old german "Executive" single speed coaster brake bike which has 26 X 1 3/8 wheels with a frame that looks similar to a Raleigh 3 speed. I want to ad a front brake and would love suggestions. Thanks!

           RE:MISC:   front brake posted by Matthew on 11/23/2008 at 3:05:21 AM
Hi Michael,

If the front forks are drilled through for a mudguard (fender) bolt then fitting a front cable brake is easy. Get your self a cable operated calliper brake from a scrap bike. Take all the fittings, lever, cable, calliper and brake blocks. Then bolt the calliper to your bike and set up the lever on the handlebars. Connect the cable, get a new cable if there is any doubt about the old one. Get new brake blocks and fit them. Hey Presto! You have a front brake. This will work for Endrick and Westrick rims but not for Westwood rims. (these are the rime on rod braked bikes).

Matthew - having a break.

           RE:MISC:   front brake posted by Michael on 11/23/2008 at 8:34:20 AM
Thanks Matthew. The bike does have a hole for a fender. What size brake would I buy if I were to purchase a new one?

           RE:MISC:   front brake posted by Matthew on 11/23/2008 at 8:57:37 AM
Hi Michael,

Your local bicycle shop should be able to advise you on the correct calliper to use but if I were you I would look on eBay or visit a local community run bike enterprise to get 2nd hand parts. If the parts are suitable for a bike fitted with your size wheels then they should fit your bike, unless the forks have a large clearance between the tread of the tyre and the crown of the forks. By the way the mudguard may need to be changed because it may not have clearance for the brake calliper. best way to sort this out is to look at another bike with a front brake.

Matthew - stop me!


           RE:MISC:   front brake posted by sam on 11/24/2008 at 7:28:34 AM
what you should have is an Altenburger (brand) calliper brake.

I may have one--will have a look if interested---sam

           RE:MISC:   front brake posted by Michael on 11/24/2008 at 11:20:03 AM
Will do. Thanks gentlemen!

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Rode the 3speed tandem last night posted by: sam on 11/21/2008 at 7:09:39 AM
rode to Hemisfair park last night for an outside movie.We live outside San Antonio so we trucked the tandem into town parked and rode to the park.Nice night but was a bit windy,which made it a bit cool(by SoTex standards).This is the event:
For this type of ride we use our beater tandem,an old 50s schwinn town%country frame with Sturmey drum hubs and rims from a dutch bike.It has a big basket on the front to carry blankets and chairs.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rode the 3speed tandem last night posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 11/23/2008 at 3:41:45 AM
Seeing as it was 15 degrees with howling wind yesterday AM here (unseasonable would be an extreme understatement), your tandem ride and a movie sounds absolutely delightful.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Global warming.... yeah.... right...

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rode the 3speed tandem last night posted by Steve on 11/23/2008 at 8:01:31 AM
I'm being a temporary traitor at the moment hence yesterday I rode my...wait for this...65 Moulton 4-speed "mad scientists" bike !

It was so cold (mainly due to the wind chill factor), I couldn't feel my teeth !

Needless to say, my fingers and toes had long gone, it's time to get the serious clothing out.

Steve - wrap up warm or pay the price

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rode the 3speed tandem last night posted by Matthew on 11/23/2008 at 9:27:12 AM
On your advice Steve I am now wearing a scarf around my teeth.

Matthew - madder than jelly wallpaper.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rode the 3speed tandem last night posted by Steve on 11/23/2008 at 1:18:55 PM
I once had my mouth put in a bandage due to eating a dodgy curry that was rediculously hot, but a scarf arounds ones teeth...you could get arrested for that !

I could expand on the dodgy curry story, but I won't because it's too sensitive (and painful).

Steve - gagged

...>>>>>>>> MORE MESSAGES >>>>>>>>

HOME (OldRoads.com) Discussion Areas Literature and Price Guide Cleaning Kit Glossary
Stat and Feature Database Picture Database Serial Number Charts General Resources