OldRoads.com > Discuss: English 3-speeds
Discuss: English Roadsters Scroll Down For Messages

All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Search 18 years of ARCHIVES:  

VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc. has set up this discussion area for the sharing of vintage and custom bicycle information. Anyone may add their opinions to this forum, as long as they follow the rules outlined below. We are not responsible for incorrect or misleading advise which may appear here.


All pictures and text in these pages are (c)2010 VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm) and may not be used in any form without written permission from VVVintage Vintage Bicycles, Inc.(tm).

Vintage Bicycle Discussion Area

English Roadsters

Post a new topic, or click an existing topic below:

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Blackout? posted by: S.H. on 10/21/2008 at 12:29:15 PM
O n the older bikes I have,the bottom half of the rear mudguards have been hand painted white.I have asked the old boys down the club,and they seem to think that it might be to do with the blackout during the war,but dont seem to be too sure,which is amazing,as they re-live ww 11 every dinner time!There are 3 of them and believe it or not 1 was in the Army,1 in the Navy and one in the Air Force!Reg, the oldest (87) and I know you are going to find this hard to believe was caught scrumping apples as a teenager,taken to court found guilty,and given the choice of going to borstal or joining the army!He said no,no,please if I have to go any where put me in the Navy,which they did.Anyway I digress.Now upon the question of rod brakes,I have never had a problem with them,they work very progressivly,better I think than the cable brake bikes I have got.It is getting silly.Some bloke at work has got a set of "trick" set of hydraulic caliper brakes which crush the rims if applied to hard,I mean what the hell is going on?My boy had a bike with the back pedalling rear brake in a day he had destroyed a brand new back tyre!No no it was also back in the 70's they brought out the first disc brakes I can remember,and I thought then,well if my drum brakes can lock the wheels up (motor cycles)then how can discs be any better?From now on you can call me Rodders,love them!


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Blackout? posted by Matthew on 10/21/2008 at 2:29:08 PM
Hi Stephen,

The infamous white tail has been discussed to bits over the years. Do an archive search and have a good, informative and long read.

Matthew - just in from an evening in the shed

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Blackout? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/23/2008 at 2:42:38 AM
Infamous? Hmmm.... I didn't realize the white tail had nefarious attributes....


Larry "Boneman" Bone - again... I learn stuff. ;-)

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by: JS on 10/17/2008 at 5:59:20 PM
I have been reading the forum for a while now and thought you guys might be interested in my new blog: http://www.flyingpigeonproject.org

While not strictly about ENGLISH brake rod roadsters, there are some that are discussed. As you might guess from the UL, it's mostly about Chinese brake rod roadsters such as the Flying Pigeon, Forever, etc. Let me know what you think.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/19/2008 at 5:17:11 AM
Interesting stuff... I daresay that those who affix internal combustion engines to rod-brake roadsters are a far more adventurous lot than I, for certain!

It's intetesting to finally see stuff posted about these machines as they are ubiquitous over there. About as ubiquitous as the motorcar here in the US, I would imagine.

Kind of fun to know that where bicycles are the primary mode of transport... it's the same design everywhere... the "utility" roadster as opposed to the arse-in-the-air "Rolling Clouds".

If you think about it... I bet the folks that work in the manufacturing plants that produce the plethora of seemingly technical marvels they sell at the Wal*Mart... all ride to work on Flying Pidgeons.

Thanks for posting up your insigts into this realm. Very cool indeed as there's really not a whol lot of insight into them outside of their own realm.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Flying Pidgeons? Whaddabout ones that only walk?

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Christopher on 10/19/2008 at 7:01:32 PM
I want to say thank you for telling us about this awesome web site with all the cool links and information it currently contains and I am looking forward to seeing more of this site in the future.

Since I grabbed the hardcover book "Chasing Rickshaws" in the Borders bookstore and eagerly leafed through it and excitedly bought it to take home and sit up at night with it and re- read it and study it I am therefore as excited to see this website. This is better than the book because this website will grow whereas the book stays the same.

Both are not to be missed.

Welcome to Oldroads.com and thanks for the link!


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by JS on 10/20/2008 at 12:14:45 AM
Thanks for the comments guys. I'll continue to post here, but please comment on my blog if you like...there are a lot of people including me who could benefit from your insight.

BTW: How much to send a pair of 26" Schwalbe Creme colored marathons to Beijing? :D :D :D


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Thom J. on 10/20/2008 at 10:24:46 AM
JS- Thanks for your post and welcome. I've been eyeing one of these types of bikes for a while now but I continue my search for a DL-1. I don't know, there's just something about the old Raleighs. However, there are a group of folks out here in the Los Angeles area that are selling new FP's at a fairly reasonable price; www.flyingpigeon-la.com. I really should stop by their shop and take a closer look. I also located a movie properties company that has a boat load of old Chinese bikes that were used in films that they will sell on an as-is basis; price is good $30.00 for 3 bikes of your choosing. I'll definately be checking them out. Again, welcome and have fun. TJ.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/21/2008 at 2:41:36 AM
$299 for a Flying Pidgeon? Yeah... I would want to have a hands-on looksee at one before I handed over that kind of coin. I hope they're of a better quality than the Abley I procured a while back. That thing wasn't worht the $100 I paid for it.

But... it's shaping up into an interesting machine anyhow... and yes, if I can get a chance, I'll post up a pic or two.


Larry "Boneman" Bone

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Kevin on 10/21/2008 at 4:11:14 AM
For $299 -- and usually, far less -- you can get a real Raleigh DL-1. It's a far better bike, and a much better investment when it comes time to sell it.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: My new Blog posted by JS on 10/21/2008 at 7:24:25 AM
Boneman, I'd be interested in some pics of the Abley. I just added a photo book of my bike on the blog. You can see it on the left side.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Thom J. on 10/21/2008 at 9:59:43 AM
Kevin- If you've got a line on a DL-1 in really good condition and cheap, drop me a line. Thom J.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: My new Blog posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/22/2008 at 2:42:07 AM
I'll try and get to it tonight.... Thus far... it's been medical testing both Monday and Tuesday and I've barely had time to actually do ANYTHING aside from day-to-day chores, etc.

Tonight... I'm hoping to mount up the rear brake and at that point it will be rideable.

I'll check the blog out a bit later today.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Abley FRIGHT to Abley LIGHT. ;-)

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Jeff Kaufman on 10/24/2008 at 7:50:42 AM
I recently got one of these. Overall I'm pretty happy with the quality of construction. The frame seems good, as do the fork and handlebars. The wheels that came with it were substantially out of true and I was looking to add at least one hub brake, so I've replaced the rear wheel. The new rear wheel is slightly smaller (622 instead of 632) but I found a westrick rim and the rear rod brakes still work. The new rear hub is a SRAM Torpedo 3-speed with coaster brake, which has been very nice in the rain.

I'm thinking of maybe replacing the front wheel as well. The smaller 622 rims have a lot more tire choices. I may also put a front drum brake on, but I don't know if I can get that to work with the roller levers. Any of you had success getting DL1 style rods to activate modern drum brakes?


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by mark on 10/25/2008 at 8:29:49 AM
excellent blog,that was very interesting!i enjoyed that.much better than the electra alternative.hollandais style bike.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by JS on 10/26/2008 at 11:43:25 PM

There are lot's of bikes with rod operated drum brakes here in China...however I am not sure what you mean by "DL1 type". Care to clarify?

BTW. Very nice bike. Is that an FP, Forever, or Phoenix?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   My new Blog posted by Jeff Kaufman on 10/27/2008 at 6:33:16 AM

The bike is a Flying Pigeon. As near as I can tell from looking at pictures of Raleigh DL1s with rod actuated stirrup brakes, it's exactly the same. I'm looking at getting a front wheel with a drum brake (and dynamo: Sturmey Archer XFDD), and I'm planning on rerouting the rear rim brake (which I don't use with my new coaster brake) to instead control the front drum brake.

So what I was wondering is, am I alone in this endeavor or have other people done similar things before.

(Alternately: how much parts interchangibility is there between the rod system for drum brakes and rim brakes?)

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Nice to hear! posted by: Chris on 10/17/2008 at 5:47:39 PM
Where did you get that? Wow! You only paid how much?? Wow! that's a awesome deal? Ya wanna sell it??

The guy was eying my bike. It sounds like I did get a deal and it's good to have somebody want to buy it from me but it's staying by my side.

Still, a japan Raleigh Super record does not turn the heads and inspire conversations like the B.S.A. did.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

MISC:   Vin on Vid posted by: Matthew on 10/17/2008 at 2:09:52 PM
Hey Folks!

If you haven't seen Vin on video, Expert Village as seen on Youtube, then you are missing a treat. I have yet to be bored by Vin's gentle educational and expert style. No wonder this website is so good. After nearly 10 years I feel like I have met the man who makes Menotomy tick.

Matthew - Vin - dicated


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by: Chris on 10/16/2008 at 8:00:57 PM
The goofballs at work like to mess with my bike. They were riding it in the store. My front wheel was hidden under the desk of the big boss because he caught them with it and he's looking out for me.
I came back to find it missing the front wheel. If it's not yours, you don't touch it! The bike is fine but I just don't like them doing that.

I am relying on the bike and need it to be there and in complete condition. I think folks forget that the bike is not a toy but somebody's main mode of transportation.

Now, if I took tools and pulled their car apart when they are out on a delivery they might understand.

I have the whole bike in the boss's office. it's guarded by the big man himself. Richard Ballantine writes about enlisting folks to watch out for your bike like keeping an eye on it for you.

I took the bike into a store the other day and they didn't like it and I took it out and down the way and I got somebody at the other entrance to watch it for me! Same store!!

Get a: "No" answer? find somebody who will say "Yes"
be persistent!

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/17/2008 at 2:22:55 AM
> Now, if I took tools and pulled their car apart when they are out on a delivery they might understand

GO for it!

"Sometimes in order to get the mule's attention you must hit it across the head with a board." - Wilford Brimley


Larry "Boneman" Bone - I would rather TEACH things the hard way.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Steve on 10/17/2008 at 3:36:43 AM
I can sympathise with the above, I detest anyone touching my bike without my permission.

How about this then...my daughter has been riding to school for three years (since the age of five), more often than not her bike is the only machine parked up in the purpose built bike sheds (especially in the winter).

In an effort to extract and convert the majority of children (from brainwashed McDougalls burger wobblers) out of their parents over-powered, oversized and overpriced cars, they have decided to allocate the whole bike shed to age 9 upwards and anyone below that age can go and take "a run and jump"...even if you've used it religiously for three years !

On complaning to the ayatollah in command, she stated that Directives have been issued by big scary people in big scary offices (with solid wooden doors) that orders must be complied with (or else there will be big scary repercussions).

I'm now extremely scared, so I decided to hold scary negotiations (peace talks) at a neutral venue within the school grounds (behind the compost heap to be exact)!

The outcome was a pile of sh*t !

(1) I mentioned that the take-up in the bike shed had been a resounding 20% and that 80% was still vacant ?

Reply: The 80% is officially allocated to students (utilising a numbering system for each hoop and locker)just in case they decide to use it...there's more chance of me eating a brand new set of Fibrax 144's than that happening !

(2) I've now offered to chain the bike up to the outsides of the bike shed.
Reply: We can't allow that on Health & Safety grounds (incidentally the bike shed is planted at the furthest most point away from the school buildings on a concrete plinth).

(3) Well about the school railings next to the bike shed.
Reply: I'd love to be able to say yes but it's more than my jobs worth to allow that because of Health & Safety regulations !
At this point my health and her safety are wobbling precariously on dodgy ground !

(4) I'm now getting desperate for intellectual conversation without incurring the wrath of Messrs Health Safety & Nonsense, so I've started talking to trees, hence I've managed to come to an agreement with a 168 year old oak tree (named Cuthbert) that it's o.k. for the bike to snuggle up against him...now we have a new problem, Cuthbert lives in the school grounds and he's been warned to watch his step and not to take pitty on "Little Sweetheart" the bike !

The end result is that we're stuffed by bureaucratic nonsense and to persue the matter any further will result in expulsion and a possible prison sentence on a tropical island with no bike sheds...meanwhile the bike is ridden and pushed twice a day (or should I say four times a day) to and from school.

I'm glad I've got that off my chest, it was starting to niggle me.

Steve - no room at the Inn !


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by David on 10/17/2008 at 5:31:58 AM
Don't give up, Steve. Do others think that the UK may suffer more from the intransigence of nitwit low-level public employees than the US?

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/17/2008 at 8:14:35 AM
Nice to know that stupidity crosses all boundaries.

Perhaps you could share with them that there philosphy can be summed up with these words:

"No sense MAKES sense."

Whom might have said that??? Why... none other than that scintillatingly intellectual MASS MURDERDER Charled Milles Manson


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Reality? Yeah.... RIGHT

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Matthew on 10/17/2008 at 10:14:25 AM

I have suffered liekwise in the past but now work with grown ups who respect property and admire folks who do different.


Check your e-mails. I am peeved to say the least. What a ridiculous policy, probably made by a Range Rover driver (inverted hedgehog - work it out).

Matthew - you won't like me when I am angry

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Steve on 10/17/2008 at 11:59:09 AM
I've had the big boys out on this one.

Pythagoras, Abacus, Theory of Relativity, Algebra, the rusty Compass and even my old pal...the Slide Rule (which eventually pushed me into the land of Logarithms)...what on earth was that all about !

Yes, I think I've worked out what a Hedgehog driving Range Rover is !

Chris, your goofballs are probably a somewhat distant descendant of this species.

Steve - phew !


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Chris on 10/17/2008 at 5:54:16 PM
Write a letter a week and keep at it until after 2 years and whenever they realize that you are not going to go away they decide to change the policy again. To a policy that will accomadate your daughter. I think it is an aweful thing to do to a young gal in school.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Leave my bike alone, please! posted by Steve on 10/18/2008 at 12:22:34 AM
That would be quite funny.

Write letters for two years, get official approval to use the bike shed then decline the offer with...having given this matter considerable thought for two years, we've now decided not to persue the issue any further and have decided purely on Health & Safety grounds to purchase a motor car so will now not need the use of the bike shed after all.

We thank you for your kind attention in this matter !

Steve - We hope to be living elsewhere in two years time.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   ebay in N.Y area posted by: sam on 10/16/2008 at 6:51:14 PM
Too far to drive for a P/U

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay in N.Y area posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/17/2008 at 2:27:52 AM

Sounds more like ALASKA to me.... THAT I will have to mapquest.

Nice looking machine though. The LTD-III's did have a certain amount of "Spartan" charm to them ;-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Born in the empire state and sometimes lost there too.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay in N.Y area posted by Matthew on 10/17/2008 at 2:08:44 PM

Its between Schenectady and Albany NY.

Matthew - cheat! I used Google earth

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay in N.Y area posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/18/2008 at 5:47:25 PM
Yep... sure is... in fact, I've been by it every year on my way to Americad in Lk. George, NY (1 hour north of Albany).


Larry "Boneman" Bone - some places just sound further away than others.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay in N.Y area posted by Matthew on 10/19/2008 at 1:14:11 AM
Hi Larry,

Would you believe that the furthest I have been from home is the middle of France? I never had a passport until this year.

However my children, friends and colleagues (with a few exceptions) all come to me for directions. They call it MattNav or DadNav. I hate SatNav, it's a work of the devil. The instant dumbing down of every user. You never need to think for your self or take note of where you are going. What happened to, 'Just turn after the big tree next to the postbox (mailbox)' ?

The only time I got lost in France was when my friend was using his wretched SatNav! Common sense got us back on track. The only time I got lost on my 290 mile bike ride was when I didn't read the map properly, but my tongue and ears got me back on track - no 'recalculating'.

Matthew - its a map & pencil way of life.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   ebay in N.Y area posted by Steve on 10/19/2008 at 2:17:25 AM
Each to their own and all that, but I have to admit that I've never wanted a SatNav purely on the grounds that :-

A. I'm to tight !

B. I'd rather spend the money on a heap of scrap metal that no other person in their right mind would give a second look at (not unless they had been the victim of a cruel medical experiment that had gone drastically wrong).

C. I'm a bit of a sad case and have enjoyed reading maps for over 45 years.

D. I would be too embarrassed (or ashamed) to be seen pressing buttons in order to tell me where to go.

E. I don't have a Gas Main connected to the car, come to think about...I don't even have a car !

Steve - Lost in Space !

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by: donna on 10/15/2008 at 8:15:14 PM
After finding this site I am hoping someone out there can help me out. I have a Raleigh Sprite Model DL 95L - 10 speed (its yellow) and over the weekend I was riding home from the grocery store when a nice man in a 1998 Ford F150 pickup truck decided not to stop. End result is that the front end of my bike ended up under his truck (I jumped off). I now need some kind of estimate for repair/replacement so I can get the bike replaced. Any suggestions or advice would be appreciated.

Thank you!

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/16/2008 at 3:02:38 AM
YIKES. First... one must ascertain what the damage is... if you have a list of things broken, bent, etc. perhaps we can start from there.

I know for a time we had a feller here that would hunt for Sprites... tear them down and use / sell the parts for Chopper restorations.

I have a "Donor" Sprite downstairs in white... so perhaps I may be able to get some parts off of it for you.

Let us know!

AND... first and foremost... as unsettling as it is to see one of our "friends" so injured.... glad to hear that YOU... are undamaged. ;-)


Larry "Boneman" Bone - that's not a good place for a bike....

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by Christopher on 10/16/2008 at 7:54:34 PM
That person that Larry mentioned is me. The Raleigh Sprite bicycle does not sell for the same higher prices that the other Raleigh bicycles such as the Tourist or the Raleigh Chopper. The collectors pass over these and for some reason they don't sell for as much. For you in your situation, this is very good news. However the Sprite has parts that interchangably fit these other bikes. So the Sprites occaisioally get pulled apart for their parts. These are also easier to find. However, this practice is not widespread so don't worry.

Remember that myself, as a collector, and rider, I went to the Estate sales and church rummage sales, the garage sales, and police auctions and I put up signs in barber shops and at the supermarkets. I would find these bicycles for 15.00 thru 50.00 and as a hobby as a mad bicycle vulture, I would part them out. I wrote about it here. You want to replace your Sprites damaged parts or, replace the whole bicycle.

You can look about as I did and do, as all of us do, in the same places. If you have the time. You will find Raleigh Sprites and other bikes as well.

In the mean time, you can search on e- bay and on places like craigslist for another complete Raleigh Sprite. it will be cheaper, usually to just find anohter complete bike and transfer parts. You are going to either re- build the bike, or find another complete Sprite and get that bike ready to ride.
depending on your frame condition.
Us, bike collectors are a bit like mad scientists who cobble together parts from the dead bikes we find and we create Frankenstein ( a bike that is brought back from the dead because it has been re-assembled) and as the bike zips along the road and we are holding the handlebars, We cry, "IT'S ALIVE!!"

Right now, we are all happy that you are alive!
Ok, your bike has been in a car accident......
Is your frame and fork is still sound enough to ride? That is the question we need to ask you. You need to have a bicycle shop mechanic look over the bike and assess the damage. If the frame is not safe to ride again then we need to know that the frame has been pronounced dead or not. Have the mechanic tell you the condition of the frame and fork. A fork can be replaced. We don't want you riding a re-built bike that has a damaged or bent frame. Ask them to make you a lists of parts that will be needing replacement and tell us what is on the list.

Before I forget, I want to say I was very happy, quite pleased to read that you jumped off the bike. Your quick thinking probably saved your very life, you avioded injury and well, you could have wound up in a wheelchair or worse.

Welcome to Oldroads.com You have come to the right place on the internet for old bicycles. We have a lot of folks who contribute and answer your questions. Some people have owned bicycle shops and repaired all sorts of bicycles for decades in many places all over the world. There are collectors, restorer's, and everything in between. You could not be in better hands.

As for myself, I presently don't have any parts on hand to sell you but no worry because others here do have parts to sell you, perhaps somebody here can sell you a whole Raleigh Sprite bike.

There is e- bay and craigslist and I just found a complete bike for 30.00 in a thrift store. And if I can, then so can you.

Get back with us here and let us know what the shop tells you what all parts got damaged in the accident and we can go from there in re-building the bike. Is this a mens frame or ladies frame bike? I ask because a lot of ladies like the mens frame bikes and they ride them, so just because you are a lady it is not to be assumed that you are on a ladies frame bike.
Keep your damaged bike. Even if you buy another bike at the bike shop. Things like the handlebar grips sell for 15. and up.
What happened with the driver? did you take his information, did the guy leave the scene of the accident?
Anyways, we are all here to help you.


           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/17/2008 at 2:33:49 AM
Uhhhhm.... yeah... what he said. Actually, quite as eloquent as ever.

Meanwhile... I did kind of miss the mark... if they're going to fix the machine absolutely ensure they will do it righ... or demand replacement or full value

Meanwhile... I saw recently that our esteemed host, Vince of Menotomy had posted up that there's a new price guide available. That might be an excellent place... that and Ebay... to get a decent idea of what the machine is worth.

Actually... I have a nice Ladies in coffee brown that is in the middle of a going over.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Damn cagers...

           RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by Chris on 10/17/2008 at 5:47:23 PM
Larry, perhaps Donna might be interested in taking the Ladies coffee brown Raleigh Sprite off of your hands. This way she'll have a bike to ride again and also, it will be safe from me pulling it apart.....

You should E- mail Donna and discuss it with her.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by David on 4/19/2009 at 11:30:22 PM
I am fixing a Raleigh Sprite right now actually, well not right now but earlier tonight lol! Any way mine is coffee brown also and has nice chrome colored handlebars nice shape no rust on them! I have been working the chain because it was froze up in places but I put some old motor oil on each link and then use two pliers and work it until it frees up! Am heading out tomorrow to get a new tire and also need to stop at the bike shop and get one of the derailur bolts where the rear cable goes into and then you screw it and or the nut to adjust the gears, as mine broke and I cannot find the same size one in all my drawers of parts! Most derailurs have the thick kind and this one is small or skinny! well that and the new tire and it should be ready to ride! Nice condition bike, was hoping it was worth more then the above mentioned up to $50 but hey if it costs me a $15 tire and a couple of $2 cables and that derailur part, I'd probably take the $50 and still be ahead of the game! Also have a Raleigh Space Rider if any one is interested lol! Thanks for reading, David...

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   ouch, my poor sprite posted by Gideon on 12/29/2009 at 5:02:55 PM
I just purchased a mid 70's Sprite. I bought it in Austin Tx. but it has the original dealer sticker on it from a shop in Cal. witch opened in 71. The bike has Huret derailers ,and from what I've read that means it is pre 77.I'm hoping it's a 76 since that would make it the same age as me. I'll post a pic for reference. I'll admit I paid twice the mentioned $50 price for it but it was completely rust free aside from some light rust on the rims, witch steel wool made short work of. The bike is 63 cm and only has a few scratches. She rides well but I notices when I took off the front rim to clean it that bearings didn't roll easy as I thought they should. I wold also like to pack or replace all the bearings but I haven't worked on a bike since I was a kid. I don't want to screw it up and I haven't found any info on bearings or the process of servicing them online. I've also been unable to find the serial #. I'd appreciate any wisdom you guys could pass on. Thanks, Gideon

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/15/2008 at 10:39:49 AM
OK... so in thinking on the Abley "Path Racer".... what might be a good option would be a coaster brake hub..

I know the SC's were not so good... what about the TCW's? Yeah... I'm sure we've been down this path before.... but just a quick thumbs up or down on it.

Meanwhile... I'm wondering about if I can get enough swept area with regular calipers on the rolled edges of the 28" rims that came with it...


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Not that I really want to stop....

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by Keith Body on 10/15/2008 at 1:01:49 PM
Hi Larry, Apologies, I have no idea what bike you are referring to, but I do know that if you put a coaster hub into a decent light frame you will bend the chain stay with the torque arm.
Cable brakes can be worked on westwood style rims, but you might have to trim the top of the brake blocks (Uk english) otherwise if they wear they can slice through the tyre.
As an ancient ex racer, I have used a foot behind the fork crown (rarely) in dire emergency.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by larryp on 10/15/2008 at 4:33:40 PM
Larry - Per Sheldon Brown: "Sturmey-Archer's record for three-speed coaster brake hubs is the very opposite...of reliable AW.
The TCW series is particularly notorious for unreliability. They had so much trouble with the original TCW that the re-designed it, and came out with the TCW Mark II.

This was still a problem, so they came out with the TCW Mark III and later the TCW Mark IV.

All four of these hubs shared a fundamental design flaw:

They ran the brake through the gear train. This means that when you're in high gear, when you would be most likely to be going fast...the brake is at its weakest!

Even worse, if your shifter is mis-adjusted and you accidentally shift into the "neutral" position between 2nd and 3rd gear, the brake will not work at all!

This flaw was so dangerous that Consumer Reports magazine rated the TCW "unacceptable."

That finally got Sturmey-Archer to do yet another re-design, and to abandon the tainted "TCW" designation, so the new, improved model was designated "S3C."

This model ran the brake directly from the driver, so it was much safer than any of the TCWs. Unfortunately, the S3C is rather fragile, some internal parts are prone to breakage.

This was in turn replaced by the "AWC" model, which seems to be reasonably reliable.

Generally, if you have a TCW of any "Mark" version, I advise against riding it unless the bike has two good hand brakes."

Hope this may help.



           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: TCW hubs? posted by Warren on 10/15/2008 at 4:35:16 PM
Gotta be honest Larry...that rod brake frame with 28" wheels will make a rather poor path racer. They were generally sporting bikes...lighter than average frames, 27" or 700c wheelsets, flip-flop fixed/free rear hubs and lightweight mudguards.

But if you must...I ride a TCW and like it. I have added some insurance with a front hub brake because the TCW has a reputation for sudden brake failure.

Old school fixies scrub speed by palming the front wheel in front of the fork crown, with a glove of course. If you try this behind the fork crown, your hand is mincemeat. Mudguards complicate things too.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: TCW hubs? posted by Warren on 10/15/2008 at 4:40:16 PM
I just read the Larryp reply above. Oddly enough, my 57 TCW stops on a bloody dime, better than any coaster hub I've owned, regardless of gear. I know they fail but I'm rolling dice on this one.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by sam on 10/15/2008 at 7:53:31 PM
Larry,how about buying a sachs internal geared hub and talking Mark Stonich into building a fixing block for it.Make a multi geared fixed hub.Infact they're easy to do so I'm positive Mark could whip up the part.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/15/2008 at 8:05:28 PM
OK... so coaster brake aint a good idea. Not to worry. As to converting to a "Path Racer" I basically got the idea from the Pashley Guv'nor.

Meanwhile... I've got the Abley stripped of all it's superfluous parts... mudguards, chainguards, rod brake stuff. Have affixed a standard stem and inverted northroads bars..

It looks pretty funky... and... with all that stuff gone, seems surprisingly light.

One thind... the "Ganga" tyres... (yes... that's what they're called!) on this thing are absolutely dreadful. Firstly... I had to pull the tubes out of them as they had what I THINK... are "woods" valves... that I couldn't get to work for love nor money...

The tires themselves were a BEAR to get off and on the rims.... and are about as "round" as my EAR.

For now... they're on there and the bike actually looks pretty interesting.... Once I get the brake levers and cloth tape on the bars I'll try and post up som pics.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - I aint racin' NUTHIN' on that thing

           RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/17/2008 at 8:19:05 AM
LOL... OK... so I find some real nice cloth "hockey" tape.... I stare at the choice of colours.... and of course opt for the "redneck" CAMOFLAGE stuff.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - they'll never see me coming....

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by Matthew on 10/18/2008 at 8:39:08 AM
Hi Larry & folks,

How about a hub brake! You can use a dyno four or AG hub with the drum brakes in the generator housing.

I have chequered flag handlebar tape on my little Raleigh hotrod.

Matthew - its the weekend, so I am a busy chap.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   TCW hubs? posted by chris on 10/19/2008 at 6:53:49 PM
I never believed that the T.C.W. hub was offered in an alloy shell but it obviously was, because I held one in my hand and owned it for a short time. Pulled it from a shop in Kalamazoo, Michigan The hub shell said T.C.W. mk 2 Alloy

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

WANTED:   Re You ! posted by: Steve on 10/15/2008 at 12:50:18 AM
Re Matthews posting below on the 13th, I would just like to emphasise that to the best of my limited knowledge, a gathering of this type of machine has not taken place before.

These bikes have been (and some still are) the "wheels of industry", the older ones show the scars of many altercations, have endured the hedgerow and trash treatment yet have survived to live another day...a testament to their "tank like" rugged build quality and rather quirky appeal.

The majority of the earlier bikes are on 3/16" running gear and in single speed rod brake set-up (heavy and reliable). Some of the later bikes drifted towards 1/8" and three speed cable brake set-up (much kinder to the muscles...and safer when fully loaded going downhill, especially on a wet day).

Small or large, this gathering will take place at an interesting venue in 2009 and should reveal some famous old British names and a variety of differing designs.

Now for a question:

All the "big boys" produced Trade Bikes/Cycle Trucks (as well as Roadsters) so, in what year did factory built Trade Bikes/Cycles Trucks first start to appear ?

The winner might get a Christmas card or a brake block (used of course) !

Please forward any suggestions or comments you may have concerning the event (not the Christmas card or Fibrax 144)!

c/o Fellowship of Trade Bicyclists (FTB)



[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   For Sale: Raleigh Superb 1973 posted by: Patrick on 10/14/2008 at 1:44:21 PM
Hi,Nice bike, missing seat and grips. Has a generator front hub,I dont know if it works and locking fork, Key is missing. Hows about $25.00 locally, only in the Detroit area. Thanks. Pat


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   For Sale: Raleigh Superb 1973 posted by Kevin on 10/14/2008 at 5:49:54 PM
Large frame, with rear rack -- great deal. If only I lived closer to Detroit ...

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Feaux Guv'nor "Fabrication" posted by: Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/14/2008 at 2:28:14 AM
OK so if I really want one, I can get a Guv'nor 3-speed... for $1895 + $75 S&H.

That's a bit pricey... but for what it is, I suppose not utterly unwarranted.

Thing is... as with many, I'm just now getting into the beginning of the "heating" season... and really... since there's no way of telling how much the cost will be... even if you estimate and DOUBLE the estimate...

Well... let's just say that the Guv'nor would be better as a springtime purchase.

HOWEVER.... I've been scheming... I have that Abley... never been assembled... and I think... with a little creative cobbling.... I could convert that into a "Path Racer"...

Biggest challenge will be the brakes of course.

Stay tuned......


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Yeah... it just might work...

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Feaux Guv'nor posted by Chris on 10/14/2008 at 7:24:04 AM
buy the bike! it's worth every penny.

I am serrious.


           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Feaux Guv'nor posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/14/2008 at 8:22:37 AM
LOL... of that, I'm sure. Worth freezin' my arse overwinter?

I may have to find out, aye?


Larry "Boneman" Bone - No that's not bearings chattering....

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

AGE / VALUE:   Seatpost styles posted by: David on 10/13/2008 at 9:12:15 PM
Does anyone know when they switched from the older T-shaped seatposts to the newer "pillar" style? I see the older-style ones on machines from the 1930s and earlier. Why did they switch? Seems like the T-shape would be better as it allows you to adjust the horizontal position of the saddle.

My 1931 Sunbeam has the modern "pillar" style. It appears to be original to the machine, but I could be wrong.

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Seatpost styles posted by Steve on 10/14/2008 at 1:23:12 AM
I've always gone along with the 1934 to approximately 1940's theory simply because I have bikes of this age fitted with the "T" shaped pillar.

The 30's bikes are geared and are theoretically supported by the S/A hub markings but the 40's bikes are pure guesswork as they are single speed Trade Bikes/Cycle Trucks and I'm guessing that they might just be 1940's machines (although they could quite possibly be 30's) !

"I used to be indicisive...but now I'm not so sure" etc springs to mind !

I've also often wondered if there is/was a definitive date when this style finally ceased.

On a lighter note, I do find that large hairy scary spiders have a preference for the "T" style...it provides for a much more relaxed and secure life style and is far easier to build extensions without the need to apply for planning permission and specialist equipment !

Steve - it's on the web !


           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Seatpost styles posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/14/2008 at 8:21:27 AM
Hmmm... re-designed by the arachnaphobic....

Most interesting. If my Mum were to ever have such an experience... she would never get on a cycle again....


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Not quite daft... but a wee bit buggy?

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Seatpost styles posted by Keith Body on 10/15/2008 at 12:46:04 PM
Simple really, the old style "T" shape went with shallow seat angles, otherwise the saddle would be too far back.
Obvoiusly some cross over between types.

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Seatpost styles posted by David Poston on 10/15/2008 at 3:46:39 PM
Did seat angles change from roadsters of the early 1900s to post-WWII era? I thought the angles were pretty consistent for the rod-braked, 28" wheel machines.

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help Identify posted by: Ron on 10/13/2008 at 4:17:47 PM
I bought an old Raleigh 3 speed at a moving sale. The bike has a decal on the rear fender - "NederlandsFabrik" and a dealer decal "Bruins Amsterdam". Is this a Raleigh made in Holland? It is a Raleigh Arizona, green, and the serial number was not on this sight. Any value? Let me know.-Ron C.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help Identify posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/14/2008 at 2:25:07 AM
"NederlandsFabrik" would be the number one clue here. An Holland built machine, unless of course there's a "Made In England" transfer on the top tube.

I have a very nice LTD 3 in red in my collection... I forget what year it is but it's in excellent shape.

You can check the rear hub for a date code stamped into the shell.

Don't know if you're in the States or Europe... if you're here with us colonists, I daresay that bicycle, having been SOLD in Amsterdam, has come a long way in it's lifetime!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - I'm english too... well... somewhat.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help Identify posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/14/2008 at 2:42:48 AM
Uhhh... that red LTD-3... is of Holland manufcature...


Larry "Boneman" Bone - ADDD (Attention to Detail Defecit Disorder)

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help Identify posted by Ron on 10/14/2008 at 2:45:15 PM
Thank you for your responses, yeah, kinda figured out it was a Dutch bike. The owner brought it from Holland to Minnesota. A little more detail, the serial number on the seat down tube is 352909. Does this translate into a date of manufacture? Also, it is an "Arizona" model. I haven't seen that model listed on any vintage Raleigh websites. Their are white plastic grommets on the fram where wires from the generator would run to the front lamp and the rear fender lamp. The wires have been pulled out and run on the outside - probably wore out and the owner did not want to dissasemble and pull wires. It does not have a dynamo front wheel hub. It has a generator mouted on the front fork that drives off of the tire.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help Identify posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/14/2008 at 4:03:49 PM
Hmm... holes... grommets... not that it's out of the question but sounds like it may have been done after originally purchased. A neat idea actually.

I would have to imagine that "Arizona" would have been an exotic name in Holland, eh? Meanwhile... clean off the shell on the rear hub... that should give you an answer as to age.

Sounds like a nice find! Provenance and all that!


Larry "Boneman" Bone - Arizona.... Sedona Arizona?

[X]  Report inappropriate messages

WANTED:   You posted by: Matthew on 10/13/2008 at 1:34:18 PM
Hi Folks,

If you care to look at the Flickr group, Leonard Gundle (etc, etc) you will find discussion about a National (sorry UK) gathering of trade bikes (cycle trucks).

A few like minded souls thought that a gathering together of these two wheeled leviathans would be a good idea. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

The gathering would be under the title of the 'Fellowship of Trade Bicyclists' or FTB (full to bursting).

Matthew - of the trade cycling.


[X]  Report inappropriate messages

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chinese or Indian? posted by: Jon Weinstein on 10/10/2008 at 1:36:48 PM
Anyone have an opinion based on personal experiences: when buying a modern clone of an English Roadster, which is your preference, an Indian or a Chinese model? I think both are currently in the marketplace, from what I read online. Thanks, Jon

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Chinese or Indian? posted by Warren on 10/10/2008 at 3:18:07 PM
I've ridden both (a Hero and a Flying Pigeon) and I've seen a mechanic work on both in a shop. They are heavy, the plating is horrible, the fit and finish is generally poor.

To be honest, there is no reason to buy either when the same money will get you a used english roadster of immeasureably greater quality.

If you have to choose one, go with a political choice. Choose democracy. I'm fed up with chinese products.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Chinese or Indian? posted by Chris on 10/10/2008 at 6:36:22 PM
There was a time when we made things here.

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chinese or Indian? posted by Kevin on 10/10/2008 at 7:39:22 PM
I'm with Warren on this one. There are plenty of real Raleighs, Humbers, Rudges, etc., if you're patient. I had a Mexican roadster once that was absolute crap -- I kept the wheels and rod brake parts, and junked everything else.


           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chinese or Indian? posted by Ted Trambley on 10/10/2008 at 11:09:20 PM
A local shop told me they had located an old English roadster for me, a BSA to be specific, and I was very excited about another English bike in my collection. This BSA was worse than a Huffy. Made in Holland, it is called Classic and is the cheapest bike I've ever owned -but free. I will cut it up for the trash once I get the hubs off. Rear is a SA 3 spd with drum brake dated 02-88, not old. The rest is garbage but then what can you expect when competing with European wages against Chinese labor mills. This is why Huffy, Murray, Columbia etc all went out of business or overseas. I'll stick with REAL English bikes.

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chinese or Indian? posted by Larry "Boneman" Bone on 10/11/2008 at 5:36:29 AM
I acquired a brand new "Abley" machine a while back. It's quality is dubious at best. Brand new in the original box from overseas... the frame was wrapped in this kraft paper stuff....

A nice idea to protect the finish.... execution could have been better... like maybe had they waited for the paint to DRY before affixing transfers and the tape....

It still sits unassembled in the garage. Mostly I had started to put it together... but there were things missing like appropriate nuts, etc. to allow for proper rod brake assembly and adjustments.

Anyhow... my enthusiasm for putting it together waned considerably and it's now more like an albatross in the corner.

Get an English machine by all means. They are out there and if you're patient you should be able to acquire one for a reasonable price.


Larry "Boneman" Bone - dis-ableyed....

           RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chinese or Indian? posted by Stephen Hogben on 10/11/2008 at 2:01:27 PM
Bought a late B.S.A. gents bike the other week for £20,have ridden it and it is ok,according to the 3 speed SA hub it is 1985.However I cannot believe how cheaply it was made!No brackets for a pump,no bracket for front light.Also very poor chrome work.I know Raleigh produced it using the B.S.A. name,I just wondered if they did this to produce a cheaper bike?

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Chinese or Indian? posted by Ed on 10/12/2008 at 4:55:51 AM
There are European made bicycles that are of quality. I received as a gift a German made bicycle from Heidelmann of Hanover. This has a SA AW 1956 hub. The big difference is the 40mm thompson bottom bracket and the frame has drop outs like a track bike. I had my doubts about the bottom bracket but this was made well. Many good bikes are out there. I have owned Steyr of Austria that I think was far better than Raleigh. Sears bicycles that were made in Austria were high quality. I volunteer at a bicycle recycling shop called Buffalo Blue Bicycle. We often see many nice Roadsters not from the Nottingham plant. I should say my 1967 red Hercules is my best ride. The only bicycle in my garage that I can ride a no hands long distance. Ed

           RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chinese or Indian? posted by Jeff Kaufman on 10/29/2008 at 5:52:21 AM
So far I've been quite impressed with my Chinese Flying Pigeon. Very little of the shoddy workmanship people are describing with other 3rd world roadsters. The problems so far are:
* wheels came out of true -- but I was planning on replacing them anyway to get 622mm instead of 635mm rims
* missing one nut in the brake system (took the one from the 'hood ornament' and it's fine)
* no instructions -- but I figured it all out ok
* rear fender and rack not quite aligned perfectly with the rest of the bike
* the seat has been fine so far but looks like it's made out of pretty low quality leather and may not last too long
* one pedal came slightly bent -- but I need to replace them anyway because MA law wants reflectors on the pedals

But fork is good, the frame is good, the handlebars are good, the paint is good, and overall I'm quite happy with it.



...>>>>>>>> MORE MESSAGES >>>>>>>>

HOME (OldRoads.com) Discussion Areas Literature and Price Guide Cleaning Kit Glossary
Stat and Feature Database Picture Database Serial Number Charts General Resources