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Vintage Lightweights

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MISC:   More info on my Ephgrave posted by: Pablo Maida on 7/5/2011 at 8:50:42 AM
Hello all. About 4 years ago I bought an Ephgrave frameset on ebay. I think the seller was Hilary Stone (rings a bell, but not sure-bad memory, lol). Seller was in UK so bike started life there probably.
I'd read the description on Sheldon Brown's site when I first got it but recently I read it again and either its changed /updated or I just didn't read it right. Seems it has a nicer pedigree than I had originally thought. That's besides the point though because I bought it strictly based on the lugs!

I'd love to find out more about the frameset, like year built, etc. I looked on bottom of the bottom bracket shell but there are no serial numbers there. It's quite interesting in that the fork was drilled for a front brake, but not the rear bridge. Rear dropouts are track type but fork and rear dropouts have eyelets for fenders. Rear dropout spacing would suggest it was meant as a single speed but I'm guessing on that.

Is there any other way to tell the vintage of the frameset or any other information? It does have the lollipops on the seat stays and the diamond spikes (for lack of better words) on the head tube, but not on the fork crown.B



Here are a couple pictures:
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/248868_1991353578000_1068194831_2218945_4669603_n.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/0001-1.jpg


I've been able to determine just last night its a Number 1 based on the lugs. Any other info or direction towards more info would be stellar. I have already seen Sheldon Brown's links and the Ephgrave registry (although without a serial number I doubt I can register it).

Best Regards,
Pablo-
Los Angeles, California
USA


by: 76.173.247.231


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           RE:MISC:   More info on my Ephgrave posted by Keith Body on 7/5/2011 at 1:20:50 PM
Pablo, Les Ephgrave was a quality hand built lightweight frame builder. Some history out there. In 1955 I had one made in about 1952 with cast lugs, yours is obviously later with pressed lugs. For me the front forks look later, but it's only a picture.
by: 92.14.53.166

           RE:MISC:   More info on my Ephgrave posted by Pablo Maida on 7/5/2011 at 11:43:49 PM
Thanks Keith. I've been able to determine its a 1962 Model No 1 for sure. Contacted the seller. Serial numbers must have been obliterated in the restoration that was previously done. Can't read a single digit on the bb shell.

I love this bike. I have it set up as a fixed gear road bike (and since the pictures I've gone back to a standard drop bar setup).

Thanks much.
Pablo-

(Another picture of the head tube)


by: 76.173.247.231


           RE:MISC:   More info on my Ephgrave posted by David on 7/6/2011 at 10:15:03 AM
If 1962, it was probably meant as a "road/path" fixed-wheel machine. You'd ride it to the velodrome, remove the brake and mudguards, replace your heavy road wheels with lightweight "sprints" (that you carried along on brackets mounted to the front axle), race, and return home after reassembly. It might have been intended to use a Sturmey ASC as well, but 62 seems late for that. Have you checked the steerer for a serial number? The British website www.classiclightweights.co.uk suggests most frames and forks are both numbered. I hope you've reversed the quick-releases so they're on the "correct" (left) side. We don't want anyone snickering at your beautiful bike!
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:MISC:   More info on my Ephgrave posted by Keith Body on 7/8/2011 at 2:06:46 PM
David, I think this one has forward facing drop-outs, most likely 4 3/4 width for either gear or fixed use.
The ASC was almost never seen, and not used by club riders except as a sort of occasional novelty or comedy. SA gears were generally regarded as purely for commuter bikes and teenagers. There is one case of a straight out 100 mile record (3hrs 20mins) about this time done on a ultra-close SA 3 speed, but the rider worked for Raleigh. By 1962 most time-trialists were on 5 speed gears, some with perhaps 13 -17 with a 56 chainring. By the late 1960's my wife used 13-14-15-17-19 with chainrings 55-53.
Quick release for the righthanded could have the rear lever on the right, you would stand behind the bike while fitting the wheel, and possible turn the lever downwards to lock so that you can get a hand round it. If you can close it with the left hand then it would be on the other side. The front wheel would have the QR on the left for the same reason.



by: 92.14.61.221

           RE:MISC:   More info on my Ephgrave posted by David on 7/9/2011 at 4:39:37 AM
I agree that by 62, SA hubs had been largely superseded by derailleurs. But you see them as original equipment on a lot of top-quality old frames. The people who chose them originally were knowledgeable riders who had good reasons for their choice; hardly "novelty" or "comedy." They may have been almost unknown in the pro peloton, but were well known and loved in the UK. One of my favorite rides is my Italvega with a Sturmey FM.
by: 216.15.114.27




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AGE / VALUE:   Old Raleigh Record posted by: Gralyn on 7/4/2011 at 7:23:30 AM
I have an old Raleigh Record....made in England....it has that weird looking fork like on the Sports models. So, it's one of the one's that is basically the Raleigh Sports frame made into a 10 speed. I was trying to figure out the date of manufacture - but I'm having difficulty. It's difficult from the color and components - because it's that green color that they used for so many years. I was going to try and come up with a date from the serial number - but I can't find a stamped serial number on it. There is a hand-etched serial number of sorts on the bottom bracket shell.....looks like a W...followed by a 4 maybe....and a bunch of numbers. It doesn't look like what you would expect from the factory. So, maybe a previous owner put that on there. But, I've been all over the frame - and have not located a stamped serial number. Any hints, experience, ideas? I'm just really curious as to whether it's maybe late 60's or early 70's, or maybe later 70's.
by: 184.39.213.10

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Raleigh Record posted by Gralyn on 7/5/2011 at 10:34:14 AM
I found it. A little more research and I got an indication of where to look for a serial number. My Raleigh Record is most likely a 1971 model per the location of the serial number and per the number itself.
by: 184.39.216.231




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AGE / VALUE:   1986 Schwinn Madison Serial Number posted by: Xavier on 6/27/2011 at 5:15:36 PM
I was wondering if anyone could help me decode a Schwinn serial number? The umber is SC629193, I believe it to be a 1986 Schwinn Madison, any help would be appreciated!
by: 65.188.197.200

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   1986 Schwinn Madison Serial Number posted by David on 6/28/2011 at 7:25:20 AM
Was the "Madison" model made that far back?
by: 216.15.114.27




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MISC:   70's Dawes Galaxy Bottom Bracket posted by: Brandon on 6/27/2011 at 11:14:15 AM
Looking to get a 70's Dawes Galaxy. Does anyone know about the bottom bracket size on these bikes?
by: 184.78.166.36

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           RE:MISC:   70's Dawes Galaxy Bottom Bracket posted by David on 6/27/2011 at 12:56:17 PM
I'd be very surprised if it were other than English/BSA threading, 68mm wide, with appropriate spindle length for whatever number of chainwheels it has.
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:MISC:   70's Dawes Galaxy Bottom Bracket posted by Robert on 7/4/2011 at 3:12:42 PM
I have 2 of the Dawes Galaxy's and they use the garden variety bottom bracket.
by: 70.3.196.116




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AGE / VALUE:   Dia-Compe 610 Canpania brake springs? posted by: Wes on 6/21/2011 at 3:11:41 PM
Hello, I have tried desperately to find replacement return springs for my fathers 1974 concourse campania. It has dia-compe 610 center pull brakes on it and the only ones I can find are for the 400s and 500s. Also I am new to bikes and I was wondering if I have to buy a new center cable(connects the calipers to each other then is divided by the braking cable) or if thats something that is made to fit. Thanks!!!!!
by: 65.0.113.192

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AGE / VALUE:   Vintage Miele Road Bike posted by: Lyle Hopkins on 6/18/2011 at 7:48:37 PM
Hello,

I recently acquired an older Miele road bike in great shape. I was wondering if anyone could tell me an age for my Bicycle. The frame is pearl white infinity cro-mo tapered double butted tubing (Tange) and the components are all Shimano Exage Motion. The serial number is 202029 0881. It also came with beautiful Italian made Ambrosio rims. A sticker on the rim indicates Miele by Ambrosio but any other info on these would be appreciated.

Thanks
by: 64.180.85.62

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Vintage Miele Road Bike posted by David on 6/20/2011 at 5:26:52 AM
Components suggest late 80s or 90s.
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Vintage Miele Road Bike posted by Lyle Hopkins on 6/21/2011 at 12:16:22 PM
Just found a site that deciphers Shimano codes. All the components are from 1988. Thanks for the help.
by: 64.180.85.62




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AGE / VALUE:   West German Pheonix Bicycle posted by: Steve on 6/18/2011 at 8:29:09 AM
Have just purchased a bicycle made in West Germany by Pheonix?? Model number 16 727673D. Can't seen to find any info. Any suggestions??
by: 2.126.211.56

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AGE / VALUE:   1976 Kia Sport posted by: Dawn Mechem on 6/17/2011 at 7:23:53 AM
I have a 1976 Kia Sport Bicycle that I have recently aquired. It is in descent shape for its age, could use new tires. The original seat has been replaced by a more updates schwinn seat. Is this bicycle worth anything to a collector? or any value at all?
by: 76.106.255.26

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   1976 Kia Sport posted by Veronique on 7/18/2011 at 7:54:18 AM
I recently came across a similar bicycle -- did you find out anything?

by: 24.33.245.10

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   1976 Kia Sport posted by David on 7/19/2011 at 8:07:25 AM
I doubt there's much collector interest. If it suits you, ride it.
by: 216.15.114.27




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AGE / VALUE:   Holdsworth Special posted by: Russ on 6/15/2011 at 4:17:46 PM
I just recently picked up a Holdsworth Special mostly all Campy NR but the front derailluer and shift levers are Huret is that orginal? I have the spare Campy parts to complete the group on the bicycles but I would like to keep it as stock as possible. The bicycle is complete with racks,fenders and a Brooks Professional saddle I think it rides like a dream.Any info will be appreciated Thanks
by: 98.217.33.250

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Holdsworth Special posted by David on 6/16/2011 at 10:12:20 AM
I guess that a Holdsworth would have come with whatever the customer wanted. French ders are often used on top-end touring bikes, even with a lot of Campy. You may find the Campy has too little chain capacity for the tourist gearing.
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Holdsworth Special posted by Russ on 6/18/2011 at 12:58:19 PM
Thank you, it is geared more for touring due to the large cog in the rear for hills.
by: 98.217.33.250




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AGE / VALUE:   Carlton 1980 Catalogue online? posted by: Sam on 6/13/2011 at 7:55:09 AM
Hi there

I've got a very nice April 1980 Carlton built at Worksop of course - (based only on WE0001861 Serial on BB). Its painted and decaled as a Colnago Super - AND an Olmo Competition so quite a bike huh!

Would really appreciate pointer to online 1980s catalogue as I've been searching for ages..

Cheers
by: 80.177.6.30

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton 1980 Catalogue online? posted by Keith Body on 6/13/2011 at 11:50:16 AM
If your serial number is correctly interpreted then you have one of the last frames made before Worksop was closed. They were part of Raleigh for about 20 years, making Sun, BSA, Raleigh and others. It would not surprise me if there was no catalogue (I'm UK based) for that year. let's see some detail pictures and try to work out what you have.
by: 92.14.37.128

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton 1980 Catalogue online? posted by Sam on 6/17/2011 at 12:33:11 PM
Great. Thanks for the interest! I'm UK based too! I've also got an 81 Carlton Super Course which really was one of the last!

Here are the photos..

http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5830160378/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5828651827/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5829604953/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5830175612/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5830172276/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5830168758/in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/64004696@N07/5829614581/in/photostream/


by: 139.184.30.131

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Carlton 1980 Catalogue online? posted by Keith Body on 6/18/2011 at 1:51:38 PM
Sam, Nothing like getting hands on a frame, rather than relying on pics, you could be right about the brazed on fittings, I'm just surprised the way the paint has allowed the rust in those areas, probably not important except for model recognition. I was surprised to see the chain and seat stays not domed at the rear ends. But typical Carlton the way the attempt at finishing the rear end spigots is poor, but they were not allowed much filing time. No Italian maker of even low end racing style bikes would send them out like that.
From one short post I try to guess the level of bicycle knowledge, I assume yours is somewhat more than some.
I would not be surprised if Carlton did not issue 1980/81 catalogues, most of their bikes were in other names, as Raleigh was so much better known in the US.

Keith
by: 92.14.38.230




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AGE / VALUE:   Victoria Fahrrad Werkes posted by: kiwigem on 6/5/2011 at 2:44:23 PM
Anyone know anything about a West German bike company called Victoria Fahrrad Werkes? I just picked up a MyLady mixte, and I can't find anything on it. Thanks!


by: 99.40.60.13


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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Victoria Fahrrad Werkes posted by David on 6/6/2011 at 5:49:21 AM
http://www.victoria-fahrrad.de/
by: 216.15.114.27




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AGE / VALUE:   Le Tour Luxe posted by: Gralyn on 6/4/2011 at 8:20:17 PM
I actually located an old bike recently....it's been a while....don't find them often. I didn't know what it was, specifically - other than a Schwinn - USA made - ChroMo frame - alloy components. The lettering was worn off / missing - so I started looking through Schwinn catalogs to find what it was. Turns out it's a Le Tour Luxe, 1983 model. It is all original except for the rear der.....the hanger was bent - and looks like someone replaced with one that doesn't require a der hanger. Even the tires are original....still hold air....but they look as though they are about to come apart, though. Original rear rack, 18 speed, triple chain rings, bottle cage, etc.. It will be fun to fix it up and take it out on a nice long ride.
by: 184.39.215.115

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AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by: mark on 6/1/2011 at 9:09:09 PM
hi--i have a 51 ralegh clubman frameand cranks but nohubs or hndumnum etc parts....anyhow was wonderng if you had recommends for the front hub that should be highflange...would resilion contnental be a good choice? bayliss?...seems most HF's are 36h not 32h...hat budget recomends might you have... guess it will take awhle to fiind....also seems only certain hubs will fiit ralegh forks, am i correct? thanks for any input...also am thnkng now to use suncr18s 590s nstead of HTF Dunlop 597's but i know this model year should have 27's...but only the suns are 40/32? iis thiis what you would do? thanks mark
by: 166.70.39.73

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           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by Keith Body on 6/2/2011 at 2:35:37 PM
Peter Kohler has the specifications copied OK, but writes total rubbish about these being used by club cyclists. It was a schoolboy bike. I think he just copied the Raleigh publicity nonsense.
The hubs I think were Bayliss Wiley solid centres, Resilion were rubbish. Any normal front hub with a 5/16 inch spindle will go in, in the unlikely event that you want later QR's they were mostly 9mm, we used to file the tops off the protruding threads to fit.
by: 92.14.33.70

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by mark on 6/3/2011 at 7:54:48 AM
thanx for the info KeIth. what do u mean by schoolboy bike, I am looking fwd to riding mine, the 531 defniitely lghter than the 3 spds ihave--so ths wiill be my only LW AS I am mostly into UK 3 spds--so Kohler exagerated the club-ness of the clubman? btw what Indicator does a 52 AM hub take? same as AG orAW or SW? but FIRST HAFTA RECOVER FROM BROKEN THUMB...anyhow thanks
by: 166.70.39.73

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by Keith Body on 6/3/2011 at 12:49:42 PM
Mark, The market in the UK for these was basically teenage.
The medium and close SA gears have a toggle chain selector which screws in to the indicator which is inserted in the other side of the hub. The AW indicator screws in from the right hand side only. Best to check the info out there.
I can't mend a thumb, hope it joins OK soon.

Peter Kohler is very useful for the specs, but he could not know that Raleigh publicity material was grossly exaggerated. I was in the retail cycle trade at the time.
by: 92.14.20.229

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by Chris on 6/4/2011 at 10:11:57 AM
Keith is totally correct as usual. The Raleigh publicity (house organ) machine was huge because Raleigh was on it's way to taking over everything! Componet makers and smaller companies took their orders from Raleigh and were controlled. There were sub suppliers and other nameless companies that made stuff for Raleigh and other companies and were not ever mentioned it was secret there was a lot of secrets to this stuff and lies to conciel and attitude to say you'll know what we choose to tell you and if we don't you don't need to know. We were told: "Buy Raleigh! it the best!!" One lady I met who was there repeated the phrase: "Ride a Raleigh ride a wreck, Ride a Hercules break your neck!!" but we as collectors and users fell in love anyways and for those of us outside the U.K. what we know of it is different still.

They churned out a lot of false information and advertising focused mind brainwashing mish mosh!
What the catalogs show and say to us may be what the bike was supposed to have on it as new but what was done
"in the spirit of what was the thing to do" or "the real way to set it up in the shop or what you and your mates did with your bikes"

was hardly what the company taught or preferred quite the opposite.

There was B.S. and reality and when you read the history books on Raleigh it is maddening and vague and when you are in this for some period of time you see it's faults and omissions and lies.

With Schwinn, they had dealers calling them up with suggestions and relaying bits of on the street or in the actual shop news and Schwinn said: "We have engineers and marketing people advising us." "We don't need dealers calling us up and offering "help" and this was Oscar W. Watson's shop calling trying to help out the company!! It was fustrating, they were out of touch and slow and the same was true with Raleigh.

It's difficult for us who were not alive and there when it came out new in the shops and those of us who were not there and already alive and riding, repairing and selling the bikes and those parts those of us who did not ride with the fellows at the time on these bikes and with experience of these parts. We believe the lies and streched truth. basically what Raleigh was telling us and persuading us to believe was far from the common reality with the man on the street, the clubmen were another story too.

Keith was there. As a rider with friends and racing buddies. As a repairer who knew and experienced most of it all, and saw it unfold and he had, and has still, the knowledge of the various makers, componet parts and how it competed against others in the market place and what was "advertisement brain mush" and what was how it performed and what happened in reality. What was good and what was rubbish how it lasted or didn't hold up for customers and riders.

rubbish is defined as something that "was all show and no go" stuff that broke .

Keith was in the trade at the time and there is no better way to truly understand a thing but to ask the people who had to repair, service and sell the thing.

We are extremely lucky to have Keith with us here.

I wish we could have the old Thomson Brown Brothers catalogs here posted on this web site and have Keith take us all inside what was the cycle trade master book the bible of British bicycles and repairer replacement parts all the gears! and all of it Brown Brothers was a jobber book a supplier of it all they had huge depots buildings all over and they supplied ALL the shops. I wish Keith could lead us into that series of books and give us the guided tour of what it was really all about how wonderful and neat it was.

Scan the Brown Brothers book and have Keith take us through it.

I rambled badly today and writing was difficult for me I apologise.
by: 12.91.193.250

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by Chris on 6/4/2011 at 10:19:11 AM
Keith is worthy to write the history the accurate history of this stuff.

I came late to all this stuff- the shops I visited were run down all in ruins, in bad neighborhoods, I arrived as the party was winding down but Keith was there! in the golden era itself. I am envious and jealous but thrilled and grateful we have him as our Professor!
by: 12.91.193.250

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by mark on 6/4/2011 at 4:34:33 PM
thanx to u both, esp Keith. that sad.....whle i appreciate knowng how t really was in thiis case....still i want to goback to the illusiion that my 51 c'man frameand cranks are somethng special cos i am lookiing fwd to riding thiis! BTW now that i have an allloy AM for it, anythng special abt this hub, i am alttle confused by the online info...do i just need the iindicator on chaiin side or is there some addtl doodad needed for the left? i dont have the AM IN MY HANDS YET...can use an AW orSW NDICATOR?....can i be a clubman illusionst and use sun cr18s 590s n place of the rims i don't have? sounds lke club biikes were mostly what a
a guy could find/afford to customiise hs 531....hence also will use some odd parts till or iif the elusiive blummels and hduminium come my way.....thx mark--eyiing hiis clubman frame and admiring iit---
by: 166.70.39.73

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by Keith Body on 6/5/2011 at 5:23:03 AM
Mark, Your FM should have the indicator and toggle chain.
In the UK Raleigh production was mainly (1951) commuter bikes. These were rarely maintained in any way, usually tyres were underinflated, until we had the butyl inner tubes in 1955.
What you have is a good step up from that, it's just that a recreational cyclist would likely start with one and modify it as you say, and finish with a complete replacement.
Keith
by: 92.14.54.20

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   what high flange for clubman posted by David on 6/24/2011 at 4:59:17 AM
Your AM will use a regular 3-speed trigger, like an AW. The left side nut can be a regular one; the 3-speed hub does not have a spindle that pokes out of the axle (and needs protection) like the 4-speed does. I think a regular indicator for the appropriate axle length will work for you.
by: 216.15.114.27




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AGE / VALUE:   Worth taking a look! Wow! (Raleigh Gran Sports frameset and parts G.B. Campagnolo posted by: Christopher on 6/1/2011 at 9:23:53 AM
Keith, can you comment here? on this bike! I love those handlebars with the red inserts I have never seen this before not those handlebars so many wonderful parts on this bike! A pickers dream. I really do love this stuff!!

ok

it is e- bay item # 220790066036 RALEIGH GRAN SPORTS FRAME SET AND PARTS GB AND CAMPAGNOLO

NO RELATION TO SELLER

ONCE AGAIN, WOW!!
by: 12.91.193.250

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AGE / VALUE:   Hawthorne posted by: Mari B Matthews on 5/27/2011 at 8:22:30 PM
Hi, After hours of searching I am still unable to find out any information regarding a Montgomery Wards Hawthorne bike I own and ride. It has two parallel bars on the top of the frame and montgomery ward riverside tires 3213M the bike is red with white stripes a single speed black seat with springs. The label on the front is white with Hawthorne written in a black strip and two red diamonds above in a red circle. Hope that helps. I have don't have a website to upload the pictures from but I will look under FQA and see if I can find information on how to post. Thanks
by: 68.231.221.113

  Replies:
           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hawthorne posted by Chris on 5/28/2011 at 8:42:23 AM
Phillips of England perhaps? Waiting to see pictures of the bike
by: 12.91.193.250

           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hawthorne posted by mbm on 5/28/2011 at 2:06:20 PM
Okay here are some pictures of the bike it is a single speed with coaster brakes....if that helps.
Thank you so much.


by: 68.231.221.113


           RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hawthorne posted by David on 5/28/2011 at 7:25:06 PM
You should ask the middleweight and ballooner forum. This bike is no Phillips; Ashtabula crank, crude cheap frame construction, etc. It may be old, but...
by: 216.15.114.27

           RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hawthorne posted by Chris on 5/29/2011 at 9:17:01 AM
David is correct. It's no Phillips. The balloon and middleweight forum can help this is American and on the cheap stuff side of old bikes. Not valuable, no re-sale value, just to use. The possible makers of this bike I can't remember right now.
by: 12.91.193.250

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