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Hi-Wheeler, Boneshaker and Safety

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FOR SALE:   1897 Mens Cresent Model #9 posted by: Phil on 1/6/2002 at 8:19:32 PM
Cresent model 9 mens bicycle, 22" frame, it has metal clad rims and coaster brake, it is in riding condition, I bought this for my son to ride but he grew 7 inches to small for him.$390

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MISC:   1918 Hudson bicycle posted by: Erik on 1/5/2002 at 11:52:24 PM
I came across a 1918 Hudson girls bicycle, when my grandmother passed away. My grandfather said that my great grandfather had bought 2 bikes that fall for his sisters. Grandfather rode one during WW II and lost track of them both. When going through the farm I found a pile of bikes going to the land fill. This Hudson had a stepped on and broken wooden back rim. All of the pieces were on the bike, with the expectation of the right grip. Yes, even the chain guard, seat and even all the pieces to the skirt guard.

Now the big questions. Do I restore this bike or leave it as is as a show piece? Can I find a NOS rim and tires ( front has red tread and the back has black? Grandpa thought it was blue, But what color blue?) The bike has rust finish on everything including the chrome or was it nickle?

Too many questions and help is needed. Any and all is very welcomed. Thanks

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          RE:MISC:   1918 Hudson bicycle posted by Charlie Harper on 1/8/2002 at 3:19:06 AM
Check www.thewheelmen.org Go to forum, post request for info.
Charlie




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WANTED:ššš1920's English Bicycle posted by: JP. Bingham on 1/2/2002 at 10:51:48 PM
looking for a project/complete/parts for 1920's mens English bicycle any help or leads much appreciated

JP

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AGE / VALUE:   Garage Cleaning posted by: Linda mack on 12/31/2001 at 10:56:31 PM
I have a bike I purchased in Lancaster a couple of years ago.
there is no headbadge. The rear hub is a New Departure Model D
inch picth chain. Rims appear to be metal. The "chrome" aparts seem
to be nickel with wooden grips. Does anyone know when inch pitch
chains stopped being used and when the New Departure model D's with coaster
brakes came about?

Linda mack

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          RE:AGE / VALUE:   Garage Cleaning posted by Joel on 1/3/2002 at 3:00:19 PM
The info you have given suggests a 20s-30s bike. What size are the tires and are they clinchers or single tube? What does the frame look like?

          RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Garage Cleaning posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 1/3/2002 at 5:35:35 PM
Inch pitch stoped about 1950, with some exceptions. but generally we think of inch pitch being pre-war.
Model D was the single speed coaster. Now the Model DD is the one to look out for, that's the two speed coaster brake that has a cable and a ball ended shifter. Those are valuable hubs, the DD.
Nice bike. Thanks to seeing your name, I can't get the tune "Johnny Mack" out of my head, but thats ok.
Describe the crank pattern, look in the library for Schwinn bicycles by Pridemore and Hurd.Also Balloon tire bicycles on e- bay.
Mens bicycles are worth more so I hope yours is a mens frame. Sorry, but that's true!

          RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Garage Cleaning posted by sam on 1/10/2002 at 1:16:24 AM
the model DD is an attachment that adds to the model D hub.




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WANTED:   Antique Highwheeler Bicycle posted by: King Parts on 12/31/2001 at 1:31:30 AM
Hi,

Does anyone have an antique highwheeler for sale or know where I can find one? Please e-amil me at kingpartsautowreckers@go.com

Thanks

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AGE / VALUE:   Ebay bike sales posted by: Greg on 12/20/2001 at 2:32:41 AM
The Columbia Expert went for $2400 in rideable but rough shape, the 48 G&J went for $1800 sold by the same guy. Rideable and I think in better shape by a bunch. And the Victor frame, fork and back wheel didn't make the reserve bid which was somewhere higher than the $440 offered. I could have used the back wheel, I need a hub for one of my G&J bikes, radial spoke and I think 18 spokes. Anyone got one they want to part with? The two bikes really cool bikes in England didn't sell and they were pretty cheap at about $1600. An unidentified bike in rough shape, not rideable went for $1225 from a man in Socal.

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AGE / VALUE:   New Wheelmen Web site posted by: Bill on 12/20/2001 at 1:34:01 AM
Check out the new Wheelmen organization Web site at www.thewheelmen.org It is a great improvement and has lots of new areas and links!

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AGE / VALUE:   wheel question posted by: todjob on 12/16/2001 at 12:55:03 AM
I bought a Crusader and it has 2 diferrent wheels the frame is the standerd D configuration nothing fancy but the front rim is wood non metalclad and the rear is a metal rim with a new departure coaster the break arm but it has an unusual adjuster on the end of the arm to adjust the distance from the arm to the frame what is that exactly for and which rim is correct for this bike,both are 27" the metal rim has an unusual design to the rim itself i can send photos,both wheels will be up for grabs on ebay mon or tues as for i am making a retro bicycle out of it,its pretty well missing everything but i would like to know what went on it to try and get similar rims.

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AGE / VALUE:   Columbia on Ebay posted by: Greg on 12/12/2001 at 8:59:53 PM
FYI,
The Columbia Expert that was on Ebay apparently sold for the asking price of $2400. In the last six months, becase I have been actively looking and pricing bikes I can give a fairly accurate market value on some bikes. Experts in that shape have been going for between $1600 and $3000. Some people get better deals than others. If you feel it's a good bike then you got a good deal. For anyone who didn't see the bike, it was missing grips, some spokes front and rear, the brake I think and the seat was done. The overall bike was in basically good condition but had been painted a couple times in it's existance a couple differnet colors the last being red, on everything everywhere. The bike was rideable if not pretty or complete. The same man has a 48" G&J up for sale too at a $1500 start price. It is rideable too and has a little less paint. I don't know if it is in better shape overall but I have found the smaller bikes are less likely to be found than the taller wheels and that makes them pretty collectible and worth more money. I guess that would make the 48" G&J that's up for sale a pretty good deal but I can't endorse anything. There were a couple bikes for sale in England too at pretty good prices that didn't sell. One didn't sell at $700 bucks and the other didn't sell at $1500. Wish I'd had the cash. If a person isn't nervous about sending money overseas on a sight unseen bike and isn't nervous about international shipping then...
Anyway, if anyone hears of bikes for sale or sold I'd like to hear about them to keep an idea on price.
Thanks,
Greg

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MISC:   One of the "Crabs" that got away posted by: Marty on 12/11/2001 at 12:48:55 AM
I purchased a RBR Hi-Wheeler a year ago, the last one in the estate of Oakland California Lake Merritt rental bikes, I believe around late 1970. Greg Barron at RBR has restored the bike and upgraded it similar to his classic model. Being new to Hi-wheel bikes, I amazed at how easy and how much fun it is are to ride. I found another one this summer in South San Francisco, repaired it and sold it to a very happy rider in Minisota. I supose, If I found another replica I'd restore it and sell it to someone wanting to get into the sport - without having to mortage the farm.

To me at least, it doesn't matter weather you own an original Pennyfarthing or a replica. I ride the same bicycle paths with mountain bikes, road bikes, recumbents, unicycles, and to be honest, most people can't tell the difference between a original and a replica in a blind taste test.

The important issue is that we dust off our bikes and get out there and ride, trust me on this, it doesn't matter if you ride an original or a replica, the beer and burgers still taste the same.

Next time you plan a trip to the San Francisco Bay Area bring you bike, we'll have a great time.

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          RE:MISC:   One of the posted by Greg on 12/12/2001 at 8:27:59 PM
Cool Marty, Thanks for the support!




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FOR SALE:   50" Rudge posted by: Greg Barron on 12/10/2001 at 8:44:36 PM
I have a 50 Inch Rudge I may be willing to sell as I need windows for the house. It is all original and complete save for the saddle leather and it is in excellent mechanical condition. The frame, hub, brake and fork numbers all match. It is a painted bike with a leaf spring saddle, 50 inch front wheel, all spokes straight and there, narrow box cresent rim with 3/4 rubber front and rear race style. Drop bars, hand brake/pant guard combo. Hub bearings, adjustable crank. The only damage is to the seat pan which has cracks at the attaching bolts. It can be straightened, brazed, painted and reupholstered. I am not sure of the year but I figure "80-84", I don't have any reference material that goes back that far but patent dates on the bearings say "78". Rudge used that style bearing consistantly for years at least through 1888. There is rust pitting overall. The whole thing seems to be in very sound shape considering the age. It rides nicely and except for the seat being uncomfortable it is ok. Send me an email if you are interested and we can talk price. I am still waffling on selling. I have a 54" G&J as well that may go.

Greg Barron

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          RE:FOR SALE:   50 posted by Pauline on 1/23/2002 at 6:46:12 AM
Saw your ad about your rudge. I have one here in Australia. Just thinking about selling . Have absolutely no idea of value $20 or $20000. It was my Fathers and he has gone now.I would really appreciate if you could share any feedback you got about your rudge, it might make life a bit easier for me. I just dont know where to star. Being In Australia there dont seem to be the chat rooms such as this. Hope you can help




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AGE / VALUE:   early schwinns posted by: sam on 12/9/2001 at 9:05:38 PM
Do any of you have knowlage of early(1900)schwinns?Were they "crucible brazed"(dipped in molten brass)and the joints internally lugged and pinned like the early mead bikes?

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AGE / VALUE:   who knows anything about sterling bicycles? posted by: todjob on 12/7/2001 at 5:51:03 AM
i have a chance to get a girls that has been updated

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AGE / VALUE:   shocking... posted by: ikke on 12/5/2001 at 9:16:48 AM
I was shocked. A replica comes close to the real deal (as far as riding is concerned) - for the first time...
Rode one of the new Mesicek bikes yesterday. Bike came right from Mesicek's shop. Shocking experience: GOOD BIKE!!!! Suprisingly close to the original - old problems like fork angle and flimsy stability they had in the previous years now seem nearly completely solved (rode 56"). Definitely the best replica I've ever ridden. Wow!

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          RE:AGE / VALUE:   shocking... posted by Catfood Rob on 12/24/2001 at 7:19:31 PM
Id like to make a Hi wheel point, that maybe should be on the section below, but its to do with original vs replica.
I ride a replica...why? i have 2 originals...... At 90 odd years old, I dont trust the steel... if it breaks at speed, thats a long way down to fall, accompanied by a piece of jagged steel tube.......... I say, put the originals on show, or ride in paredes etc... but for serious riding, use a replica!!!
Wow...bet that puts the cat among the pigeons......

          RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   shocking... posted by Greg on 12/25/2001 at 12:17:20 AM
Hehehehe, oh yeah!

          RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   shocking... posted by ikke on 12/31/2001 at 10:57:11 AM
that's exactly why I don't trust replica highwheelers...
(seen too many of them break in races)




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AGE / VALUE:   Hi wheel bicycles posted by: mbarron@barrongroup.com on 11/27/2001 at 7:57:16 AM
Certain elitists have said the hiwheels from rideable bicycle replicas is not a PURE HIWHEEL however a PURE HIWHEEL evolved thru many different changes and the currant cost can be any where from $10,000 up to $20,000. For those people who want to experience the thrill of riding a big wheel bicycle and do not have the money to pay for a PURE hiwheel, the hiwheel made by rideable bicycle replicas provides the SAME unique thrills of an antique hiwheel WITH OUT the very Hi price, as they usually sell for under $1000, is easier to ride for a novice and steers much easier. It comes with a large front wheel up to 72" or smaller, 16" rear wheel that will with stand the falls and collisions much better than an original that can cost much much more. It has the same hard rubber tires that the originals, comes in red or black, It is not a exact duplicate of an original nor does it pretend to be, It was built to give a person the thill of riding as high as 5 foot above the ground and ALWAYS attracts attention and a million questions about it. Unless you want to be the center of attraction stay off of one.

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          RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hi wheel bicycles posted by ikke on 11/29/2001 at 11:48:44 AM
Now this is a statement everyone can relate to. There is not much to be said against the use of replicas. They do not offer the same level of bicycle as the original counterpart does - but as a class of their own these bikes certainly have a purpose... (no original available, racing , tricks, circus). GOOD CALL, Greg!

          Not me this time! posted by Greg Barron on 11/29/2001 at 6:50:37 PM
Thanks for the support but actually, that was my father that posted that last message. He must have been going back through some old postings and something set him off. He still comes in once in awhile. He did after all start the company 27 years ago and he is as sensitive to some of the unwarranted criticism as I am.
Ikke you hit it on the head in your assessment of purpose although I would have added price in there too.
Greg

          RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hi wheel bicycles posted by Steven on 12/1/2001 at 5:22:58 AM
To Greg and dad. Nothing against trying to recreate an affordable replica, but to state that your bikes offer the SAME unique thrills of an original is rather far-fetched. I was one of your first buyers back in the 70's and rode your bike quite extensively (including many century rides). Now that I own a Rudge original from 1878, which I bought for far less than the $10,000 that you state above, I can assert with total honesty that your bike does not even come close to the ride. I am told that your bikes have improved immeasurably, both in workmanship and parts since the one that I used to own, but even then...

You should be applauded for making an affordable highwheel visual replica that offers 99% of the population exactly what they need, but please, let's stay away from the comments that they offer the SAME (your capitalisation)ride.

          RE:Not me this time! posted by ikke(teun) on 12/3/2001 at 10:17:20 AM
generally yor point about price is a subject I cannot relate to. my bikes are too unique and well-loved to put a price on them. like any original penny by the way.
Besides talking about price of aquiring really is a subject for replicas. For an original it turns into a hairy subject simply because of the many factors involved...

          RE:RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/3/2001 at 3:29:19 PM
If you have a bucket of crabs and one of them starts to climb up out of the bucket, you'll notice one of them will reach up and grab it and pull it back down.
People are like this too, despite all the good things in common, it happens anyway.The great thing with the replicas is that is has gotten these type of bikes out of the bucket and back where people can marvel at them and where these can be seen and enjoyed, even being ridden by a new generation. It's not an exact reproduction as the rider will likely tell somebody that asks about it at the parade or show but it's close enough to breathe life and interest back into it and that's a good thing.
If finding and riding a replica takes you into collecting, riding and searching for a origonal hi- wheel bike than these replicas are fueling interest in these and that is helping keep it alive.That's great too. If somebody helps you get up and on it and helps get you started in a good thing it is better to remember that years later, when you are an advanced collector and enthusiast.
I can't remember the last time I saw one of these being ridden anywhere.

          RE:RE:RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/3/2001 at 3:42:27 PM
In all my tromping around and finding things I never ran across a hi-wheel bike. Never mind if I was interested in these or not, I never saw one in any shop, barn, basement, attic, shed, wherever. They're not out there like Schwinns, Elgins, or Raleigh's. I'm sure the more seasoned, agressive and experienced collector can smoke these out if you have connections and know the game.I consider finding these fairly difficult and you would have to really go over it with somebody who knows these well so you get what you pay for. Are the origonals fairly rare?
What about the books on these? Are there good books that answer the questions collectors have? Good pictures and accurate descriptions? I bet a good hiwheel (coffee table)/collector book would sell.

          Availability of High-wheels posted by Steven on 12/4/2001 at 12:54:25 AM
If you are looking for a good book to teach you the basics about high-wheels, you should try the following website: http://www.pedalinghistory.com/PHBList.htm there are some good books listed there. There are many reasons that made highwheels disappear from the scene: 1) they were thoroughly outclassed by the newer safety bicycles that rode better and cost far less. 2) they unfairly favoured taller people 3) the steel was often recycled for war efforts during WWI and afterwards. For your information, the cost of a bicycle in the 1880's would be equivalent in real terms to that of a middle class car today, so it was most definitely not for the shallow pockets of the majority. If you get a chance to observe a top-quality original from the 1870's or early 1880's, you will be surprised to see the workmanship and features that were offered, things like tapered and aerodynamic forks, continuous tapered backbones, hollow rims, hollow cranks... Great workmanship! You can understand that many of the original makers of cars came from the bicycle trade.

          RE:RE:RE:RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by ikke on 12/4/2001 at 11:29:50 AM
Finding a highwheeler has indeed become more and more difficult. These bikes do not appear in main stream markets anymore today. You'll have the best chance to get your hands on one looking at Eastern Europe (Iron curtain, especially Czech Republic). Mostly you'll find bikes of about 52" size.
Talking about interest: interest has never really been down and to be honest in Europe the replicas only got sold when racing with originals moved attention towards strength, speed - and damage... So it's more the opposite. And as for the price of safeties:they cost MORE than highwheelers did...
Steve, hav you ever considered the following as a factor in the disappearance of the highwheeler:
1) the highwheeler was faster than safeties (look at recorded times for that era). 1a) the highwheeler required a very good cycling technnique - could only be aquired through years of experience. 1b) since cycling was a fast growing sport and youngsters wanted to be heroes quickly on their bikes the quickest way was to start with a safety... which drove the highwheeler into the class of experts (which was NO LONGER a very profitable class for sponsors - always were a problem...).

          RE:RE:RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by Greg on 12/10/2001 at 3:30:39 PM
Hoo-Rah! My sentiments exactly! This is what I have been fighting for 27 years now. No, my bikes aren't built like the originals and no they don't ride exactly like the originals because they are made different than the originals but they are still Penny Farthings and yes they do offer the same thrill as an original. Anything similar that can get your ass to ride 5 feet in the air offers the same thrill, and yes they do give the general public a taste of what it was/is like to ride on a High Wheel bike.
It seems my father got a bit of debate goiing with his note and I dare anyone to say that a first time rider of a Hiwheel would say the thrill is any less on a replica of any kind than on an original.
Greg Barron
RBR Inc.

          RE:RE:RE:RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by Greg on 12/10/2001 at 3:34:12 PM
This should have been by the bucket of crabs posting!
Greg

          RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by ikke (teun) on 12/11/2001 at 6:50:50 AM
true, maybe us 'oldtimers' have forgotten that we too started out as beginners (Myself: 17 years of experience, started at age 11,6 times IVCA world champion, world record holder on 1klm,beat both original + replica,have riden EVERYTHING the bicycle evolution produced).
But keep in mind that most of the guys who think these replicas don't work have been on highwheelers more than 10 years and have forgotten more than a novice will ever learn...
Still: for a novice a replica would always be advisable

          RE:RE:Interest in these is up, that's good. posted by Greg on 12/12/2001 at 8:57:55 PM
Old timer? At 37 I have 25 years of saddle work on replicas and originals and a few local event races myself. I'm planning on attending the Wheelmen's meet in Colorado this year. I'll see how my bikes and I fare in a large group rather than the smaller meets I've been to, all I need is a few weeks time to get in shape. Hope you all can make it.

          Oldtimers? posted by Steven on 12/12/2001 at 11:27:04 PM
Since when are 37 and 27 year-olds oldtimers? Our total age does not even match the youngest original highwheeler still around, this notwithstanding the more than 50 years of our combined riding experience! It would seem that you need to start young or else you will never be able to muster enough courage. What about the rest of you, at what age did you start riding?

          RE:Oldtimers? posted by teun on 12/13/2001 at 6:12:10 AM
this of course not including a certain English gentleman who learned the art at 68, a family friend who started at 57, my mom who learned last summer at 61... all on originals b.t.w..
Question remains interesting though: at what age on what bicycle did you start riding?

          RE:RE:Oldtimers? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 12/14/2001 at 2:19:01 PM
They are likely wishing that they started it years before.
Ask them to comment, Why do you like riding a highwheel bike?

          RE:RE:RE:Oldtimers? posted by Teun on 12/17/2001 at 7:51:02 AM
The bike grew on me. Saw one riding in the IVCA international rallye at Les Ulys, France. Was about six then. Like all kids immediately decided to want one. since then logical growth: saw my first race at the world championships of 1985 (Douglas Pinkerton won). Decided to beat the guy. Got faster and did so for the first time at the open belgian championships in Pepinster. got obsessed with racing highwheelers (Never got over it I am happy to say).
But have never encountered one that was faster than the original (i.e. my 1887 Columbia).
Still I am convined there's room for improvement. Am always hoping to find someone skilled enough to help me turn my ideas into a REALLY fast bike...

Would anyone else like to submit his/her story? Would be great to

p.s. Let's start a new discussion subject for this thing. This one is getting a bit long...

          RE:RE:RE:Oldtimers? posted by Teun on 12/17/2001 at 7:54:28 AM
English gentleman: saw the last race for pennies at Herne Hill and wanted to fulfill his child's dream.
friend: I dared him. Became addicted.
My mom: last thing she did before she died last winter.
The bike grew on me. Saw one riding in the IVCA international rallye at Les Ulys, France. Was about six then. Like all kids immediately decided to want one. since then logical growth: saw my first race at the world championships of 1985 (Douglas Pinkerton won). Decided to beat the guy. Got faster and did so for the first time at the open belgian championships in Pepinster. got obsessed with racing highwheelers (Never got over it I am happy to say).
But have never encountered one that was faster than the original (i.e. my 1887 Columbia).
Still I am convined there's room for improvement. Am always hoping to find someone skilled enough to help me turn my ideas into a REALLY fast bike...

Would anyone else like to submit his/her story? Would be great to

p.s. Let's start a new discussion subject for this thing. This one is getting a bit long...

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