| I need to be able to climb big hills where I live, and obiously, speed is not important to me. So I found a place that sells 32-44t cottered cranks, what would be the smallest ring I could use on a flying pigeon without it rubbing on the inside of the full case? by: 24.124.96.135 |
| Doesn't the size of the case limit how BIG a ring you can use, not how small? (It DOES limit the size of the cog in back, of course.) by: 216.15.114.27 |
| I am not thinking of the outer surface of the inside of the chaincase but rather the innersurface. Stock a flying pigeon has a 46t chainring but if I put a 32t on it may be so small as to rub the inner surface. I don't know, I will call the guy that sells these things and see what he thinks. What is the largest sprocket you can put on a Raleigh full chain case? Just from looking I would say about a 20t-22t would be about max. by: 198.252.12.219 |
| With this photo I hope you can more clearly see my concern as to why the 32t ring may be to small and cause chain rub, check it out http://www.flickr.com/photos/ubrayj02/2766910413/ by: 198.252.12.219 by: 198.252.12.219 |
| This whole matter should be resolved with the use of a 3 speed, 4 speed, 5 , 7 or more of a multispeed enclosed hub. Look over the newest Sun Race- Sturmey Archer products and invest in one of those. and keep the chaincase in place. Are we trying to stay with a single speed rear hub in this bike? if so, Why? Use of the chaincase limits you. I hate to say it, because I love enclosed chaincases on these type bikes. I love them passionately! On many of my bikes I removed the cases altogether and went back to hockey stick chainguards. This allowed me to fiddle with derailers and different size front crank sets/ T.A. chainrings and such wonderful things. The chain case limits how small a front chainring can be. it also limits how large a rear sprocket one can fit on the rear. You can remove the end piece of the enclosed chaincase and go to a 22tooth 24 tooth or larger tooth rear sprocket. However this defeats the whole purpose of having an enclosed chaincase on the bike. Now the front chainring question You will have to fit some different sizes on it and see for yourself. I think that you can't go any lower than a 42 tooth front chainring. really, the enclosed chaincase limits you pretty well. My answer from memory is no lover than a 42 front chainring will fit inside the case. That's my best guess. I don't have the flying pigeon bike in front of me. These are close copies of the Raleigh's but things are still slightly different, the finishes, the paints, the name itself. I like the rims and tires and a few other parts but I don't go all the way, or even half the way, with these bikes. Sorry, but I cannot stand the name. I prefer this type of bike to be British that includes a British name and headbadge, no "Hero" leather seats for me. sorry but a "flying pigeon" is a "winged rat" in my book. Struggling writer Ernest Hemmingway caught pigeons in the city park and ate them to survive as food. Inventor Nikola Tesla loved Pigeons, he maintained regular patrols around the New York Public library to rescue the sick and injured pigeons, he fed them, the pigeons were fed while office workers Muriul Arbus and Dorothy Skerret were shortchanged their salary. They were trying to honor him at an engineers club and he went missing to feed the pigeons. There was one particular all white bird with just a bit of grey on it's wings and when it flew into Nikola's Hotel room window late in 1943 when Nikola was lying in bed solving problems as usual- it supposedly told him she was dying (He loved the bird like a man loves a woman) He knew somehow, and as the book reports he told a group of science writers "And as that pigeon lay dying beams of brillient white light emmitted from the pigeons eyes,More bright than anything produced in his labs yes, an actual white light. It was at that moment that Nikola knew his lifes work was over." Tesla died soon afterward, ther is a photo of the pigeon in the book about him. If it were anyone else I'd say that was crazy but Nikola was special and in a class of his own.So who knows? Now a pigeon with the light streaming from it's eyes as a Flying pigeon t- shirt? I'd buy one of those! I still think the Pigeon is a "winged rat" It is a "protected bird" as it carried messages in W.W.1 and 2. so I don't advise getting caught killing them. To say it's a popular bike in China is an understatement it everyplace and well loved. However, powers that be in China are trying to phase these out. It's like the V.W. bug. by: 69.153.86.42 |
| The enclosed chaincase prohibits front deraileurs, it knocks out your chance to use multiple front chainrings, (deraileurs) or multiple rear sprockets (deraileurs) the channels on top and on the bottom are only so wide so going larger or smaller on either end is almost impossible. I am sorry to see that Raleigh/ Phillips/ B.S.A. and others did not maintain control over the factories, dies, tooling , plans,personel, industry secrets, production methods, patents ( those must have expired, making this possible) What I would have liked to see develop is, The Flying Pigeon should be a Raleigh Heron. Raleigh should have been operating a factory in China and kept an firm grip on maintaining control and ownership of the enterprise there. Fine if they love the bike, but after all it is British, isn't it? It should stay that way. Profits flowing back to Britain. We would have never seen a run down factory with broken windows in Nottingham, Brooks would be in a huge, multistoried factory, Sturmey- Archer would never have been sold to Sun Race, the heritage would not have been lost, jobs would remain in place. So much effort, so much sacrifice, time, to over take, push to the wall and buy out the competition to bring it under the T.I. Raleigh umbrella only to pack it away and close it all up. It does not make sense. The planning folks at T.I. should have said "Ok, this is the worlds largest market and we are going to make it Raleigh's." To consolidate and have all of 100 years experience in this and then not do anything with it? To not lead a charge and take over China's bike markets is an incomprensible waste. T.I. didn't merge with B.C.C., production was not shifted to Nottingham, all the merging and consolidation, and buying up and out and factory closing and all this upheval? It didn't shift to Supply China with Raleigh's and go on to another Golden Era. It didn't do anything but plan it's own funeral. Before it was knocked down (the Raleigh Nottingham factory) one could see the grandeur of the past. The huge lettering on the walls: R A L E I G H. Seeing the echo's of the past knocked visitors speechless. Instead company officials stated: "We have given up our foreign ambitions" Why not China? Why allow EVERYTHING to be sold, copied with or without permission, Why allow this basic design, the bread and butter bike that was manufactured and shipped around the world the bike that made fortune(s) for more than one company but in an entire industry. There is getting ones wallet pinched (stolen), your groceries and clothes taken from you (a mugging) but what has happened is China has stolen the very soul.( Britains bicycle industry ) That is a hell of a thing to loose! Precisely where things are. The Flying Piegeon bothers me because it's illegimate. and why? When one can find the original (s) that are still about. Racks are special because they are Ashby, Princip , Brooks, Terry's e.t.c. The look, the designs. British seats (saddles) are special because they were Brooks, Dunlop, Middlemores, Wrights, British Tires were special because they were Dunlops, Bates, John Bull and a host of other names and Brands and versions. Yesterday I saw a "War Grade" tire on a B.S.A. airborne paratrooper bike it had ridges and looked cool as all get out. I thought "Now! Thats a tire!" The paint was special itself. Yivone Rix laughed and said the "paint was rubber based and you'll never figure a way to duplicate it appearence wise." Be assured paint recipies are sitting in a locked safe. Even now. You can come close. not exact. Bells are not the same. it's different, and yes it is cheap, shoddy, not authentic. chrome plate, the thickness of the steel, the grade of steel, e.t.c. The soul is not the same. Yes, this stuff has soul. Ring the old stuff and then the new stuff and listen to it. That ping, it is it's soul. The Japanese love French bikes because they see the soul in the French bikes and that is why, in part they love it. Decals too are different. The finishes of the metals, the screws, bolts. e.t.c. by: 69.153.86.42 |
| Original front chainrings that are too large combined with the thing being a single speed as well. It must be fustrating to ride. Difficult on hills and limited to only one speed. Are the millions of Chinese users feeling the same way with their Flying Pigeon bikes? Are there many folks in China who are looking to modify the gearing on these? My guess is they accept the bike as it is sold, they ride it as it is or they are riding something else. Perhaps they are hardier, stronger, more disciplined? Just ride the heck out of it every day, everyplace and get so tough on the single speed roadster that they likely don't give it a second thought. Don't mean to be snotty or disrespectful I really am wondering..... Are the Chinese wanting to add gears derailers or internal hubs onto these class of bicycles? If there was demand the company would offer gears. by: 69.153.86.42 |
| I would like to have an original English made bike but I live in a place where finding one is very difficult. In fact in the thirty years I have lived here I have never seen a proper roadster. Sports model 3 speeds, sure, but never ever a roadster with rod brakes, a full chain case, and 28in wheels. I only own single speeds at this point in my life. I just like simplicity. After the 24 speed mountain bike I owned and often took to the LBS for adjustment of the derailleurs I said enough and have been riding single speeds ever since. That was seven years ago. I routinely ride a single speed road bike 30-50 miles at least 3 time per week over hilly terrain with a 42-16 gear ratio. So I am not an extremely weak rider. However, that bike weighs only 20 lbs. I am just not too sure about trying to ride up hills that most around here walk up with mountain bikes on a single speed that weighs 45-50 lbs. I was hoping to forgo a 3 speed hub but it sounds like I may have to get one if I want to use a roadster as my primary winter/bad weather/ around town bike. Or I could try a 42-22 combo and see if I can get around. by: 66.45.135.108 |
| Chris, To be fair, Raleigh didn't allow everything to be copied. Its product was just copied without permission in an era, in a part of the world, where intellectual property theft was hard to police. Some trivia on the 'flying rats': "At the forefront of the whole bicycle phenomenon in the PRC is the trusty Flying Pigeon. Of all the bicycle logos in China today, the silhouette of a pigeon resting on the two letters FP is probably the best-known. Other brands take a close second, such as the Phoenix (Fenghuang), Forever (Yongjiu), and Giant. Flying Pigeons are hatched at the Tianjin Bicycle Company, which was originally an artillery factory created by Japanese occupying forces in 1936. After the Communists came to power in 1949, the bicycle industry was revived. In the early 1950s, Chairman Mao's heir apparent Liu Shaoqi paid a visit to the factory and commanded that it become the first bicycle manufacturer in New China. The Flying Pigeon was the brainchild of a worker named Huo Baoji who presented his carefully crafted bike on July 5, 1950. The name Feige (literally 'flying dove') was originally chosen as an expression for peace amidst the raging war in Korea. However, the Chinese word gezi can be translated as either dove or pigeon. For some inexplicable reason the latter was chosen. Why this scruffy, vermin-with-wings was chosen to represent the nation's most prominent bicycle trademark may forever remain a mystery. It could be that the pigeon was regarded as a working-class fowl. A more likely scenario, however, is that an error in translation occurred. Thus Huo Baoji's vision of the Chinese nation gliding around the country on gleaming 'Flying Dove' bicycles never came to pass. Despite its somewhat comical name, the arrival of the Feige was the turning point for the bicycle industry..." http://www.beijingscene.com/v07i002/ayi.html by: 218.186.12.253 |
| I suspect that an error in the translation occured I failed to mention that the pigoen is related to the dove. It's almost the same a pigeon is called a rock dove doves or pigeons it's about the same and to the Chineese I guess they don't differentiate. Dove would be better. You are right on the money it happened at a time a different time and it just happened but also my guess is that tooling was sold and it ended up in China Henry Ford took the old worn out model A ford tooling and put it in ships and it went to Niviskhy Novgorod Russia he enlisted the Socialists in Detroit to go to Russia and they opened a factory in Russia a shot down version of the river rouge factory in Detroit where they built cars for Russia until well...... I suggest you read the out of print book: Coming out of the ice an unexpected life by Victor Herman anyways you are correct but tooling must have changed hands for this to happen and it was not stolen like other things. Some idiot likely sold it and betrayed the whole industry as well as the country and her people . Oh well it's long over but I don't have to like it. I understand and your reasons are why a growing number of riders are going to single speed bikes and this is nothing new. Sounds like you are in shape and I tip my hat to you sir. Please feel free to post here, the group is interested in your reports and posts and now that I'm on record about the flying (ug) pigeon I'll let the other members answer your posts. I am interested and look forward to reading your reports on the scene in China. the above posts are well written and informative it was good reading. by: 69.153.86.42 |
| Off topic I realise. Some Swedish built Scania coach (bus) chassis are now being bodied in China, they're due to land in England soon....hmmmm ! Steve by: 93.96.36.127 |
| Hi Chris, You might have mistook me for Jeff, the blogger on www.flyingpigeonproject.org who lives in China. I live in Singapore and am happy to post here. Theres so much to learn from you guys. I hope I may be able to contribute my bit to the vast - and critically important- database you have here. Like Steve, I realise this is getting off topic, so I will share more on a separate thread. Thanks for the welcome. Some pics of my bikes past and present can be found here: www.flickr.com/photo/ketchupsbikes Kenneth by: 218.186.12.253 |
| Having examined enough old Raleighs at this point, I do not think any of the Chinese Roadster were made using Raleigh tooling. Too many small differences and some large ones too. Supposedly the FP was a "clean sheet" design. However, It seems to me they took some of the best elements of various british and continental roadsters and simplified them for mass manufacture and easy maintenance. True..many of the parts will interchange with a Raleigh...although they are a bit different. I think this was intentional as there were many Raleighs already in the country, so why not supply parts that fit the existing bike park? At the time, the country needed all the mobility it could get. I will cover this in greater detail on my blog in a few months. Too many stories between now and then. JS http://www.flyingpigeonproject.org by: 193.23.43.5 |
| Ken- happy to read your posts here, keep it up the Bike may have been named pigeon instead of dove due to religeous overtones the Holy Spirit is a dove and such. I look forward to your blog by: 69.153.86.42 |
| The Japanese Zero plane was designed by Howard Hughes somebody went in at night and snatched the designs off of the desk. Then they built it, tested, built more and more of them and then the pilots took to enjoying very much turning about very agile on a dime and getting behind the U.S. servicemen in their planes and then....... opening fire from behind!- but the U.S. planes had bigger guns. by: 69.153.86.42 |
| Chris- I think you are confusing me with Ken again. Ken lives in Singapore. I live in Beijing and write the blog. http://www.flyingpigeonproject.org. -JS by: 193.23.43.4 |