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Archived: Balloon Tire and Middleweights

AGE / VALUE:   Pee Wee Herman bike posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/5/2000 at 9:07:07 AM
If you have an interest in the Pee Wee Herman bicycle or if you are attempting to put one together please contact me at: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pee Wee Herman bike posted by Glenn P. on 12/6/2000 at 7:48:09 AM

Just curious. What goodies and info can you share with us? Pictures? Parts fabrication? History? I wanna know.


Glenn P.
Portland, Oregon

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pee Wee Herman bike posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/6/2000 at 4:31:15 PM
I have a postcard I could make a copy of or an enlarged copy of this postcard . I can send it out to you for free if you e-mail me your postal address.

The creapy little freak Pee Wee is on the bike with one foot up and his tongue is out and it gives me the willies but it is a good close-up shot of the bike and I thought this might help out. I have nothing else to offer.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pee Wee Herman bike posted by Glenn P. on 12/7/2000 at 8:16:58 AM
Maybe you could post the picture in the archives as a special interest bike. I like that silly bike of his. Wonder where any of them, from the movie, exist now. Anybody out there know? Thanks.


Glenn Phillips
Portland, Oregon

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pee Wee Herman bike posted by Robert on 12/7/2000 at 7:16:19 PM
There are two books out there called the "Evolution of the bicycle". ISBN # 0-89145-474-8. Volume one has a photo of Pee Wee's bike (page # 154) and the guy who owns it or at least did at the time of print in the early '90's. His name is listed as Ivan Guthmiller of Aberdeen, SD.
I was first introduced to the idea of vintage bikes thru Pee Wee's big adventure movie. And that little freak as the previous writer stated still holds a special place inside my heart for the unassuming act of getting me into the hobby thru his movie. I've see a couple versions of his bike, one is a schwinn straight bar that appears post war, and the other being a schwinn DX pre war model. This would be an area of research you may want to follow up on in order to aquire or perhaps even recreate the bike yourself. Personally I get my kicks out of searching for original balloon tire bikes in as nice of condition as possible and just clean'em up and cruise to my hearts content. Some folks just like to prop'em up and display them for their pleasure. That's cool too. Anyway, good luck with your "ADVENTURE".


   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Pee Wee Herman bike posted by JimW. on 12/11/2000 at 12:20:36 PM
The trick to building your own "Pee-Wee" bike is just start putting one together. I've done a lot of projects for films
and TV. The usual process for this kind of thing is to find
a good junker starting point, then give it the phantom restoration treatment. Look around for goofy period accessories and slap them on. In this case, the more the merrier. To really do it up right, you might have to sculpt some new components, like tanks, saddlebags, etc. Look through the JC Whitney auto goodies catalog. They still carry a lot of goofy add-ons that would work for vintage kustom bikes.

AGE / VALUE:   Help Me I.D.This Bike posted by: L.Wright on 12/5/2000 at 6:25:26 AM
I have this old Schwinn that I've been dragging around the country for about 20 years and now I stumbled onto this whole vintage bike community thing and I'm already hooked. Any way according to the serial # chart this thing is a 1951 (H412223) right? It has new departure hubs,a knee-action fork,very wide swept back bars,skip-tooth drive train and a "sweet-heart"? crank gear. The top tube is curved but it has another tube below it that is straight that runs from the top of the down tube to the top of the seat tube. It has no horns,lights,racks or a tank. I looked in the picture archive but found nothing.Any ideas what model this is?
This is fun.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help Me I.D.This Bike posted by sam on 12/5/2000 at 7:52:14 AM
Sounds like a Hornet or Spitfire,but just a guess.Might have lost the Tank before you got it.What Color is it,This might help as the frames on several models were the same.Does it have a ghain guard,the modle should have been painted on it at onetime,maybe you can still read it if you look close.---sam

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help Me I.D.This Bike posted by L.Wright on 12/5/2000 at 12:50:20 PM
Someone painted it red but I carefully removed some paint,it appears to be black w/white striping. How would a tank mount as there are no mounting holes or tangs.The guard does not appear orig. it does not use what appear to be the mounting tabs on the frame, it clamps on and has many poss. mounting holes.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help Me I.D.This Bike posted by Joel on 12/5/2000 at 2:29:25 PM
The chainguard sounds like it came from another bike. A tank will fit your frame. One side has brackets that fit between the bars and the other side screws into the brackets. Reproductions are avalable from Maple Island and Memory Lane. (chainguards and carriers too).

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Help Me I.D.This Bike posted by L.Wright on 12/5/2000 at 6:45:52 PM
Looked in the pix archives again, looked up a Delux Hornet and it looks very similar. They are black with the spring fork. Very interesting. No horn or rack.Cool.

BALLOON:   Balloon tires, middleweight wheels posted by: Zack on 12/1/2000 at 4:34:14 PM
This may sound like a dumb question, but is it okay to put 26x2.125 balloon tires on 26x1.75 wheels?

   RE:BALLOON:   Balloon tires, middleweight wheels posted by Adam on 12/1/2000 at 8:07:20 PM
I had an old Murray that the previous owner had put balloon tires on. It rode pretty nice! As long as you have enough frame clearance and you like 'em... go for it. Some things to remember are fender clearance (the fenders were gone on my old Murray and I assume that was why). And your bike may be a bit "tippy" in regards to the kickstand (since you're raising the bike up a bit).

   RE:BALLOON:   Balloon tires, middleweight wheels posted by Karl on 12/4/2000 at 7:39:00 AM
That will almost certainly not work. For more info, go to:


How the old Murray acquired balloon tires I don't know, but the wheels must have been changed at the same time..

   RE:RE:BALLOON:   Balloon tires, middleweight wheels posted by BillG on 12/4/2000 at 9:03:56 AM
It depends on the bike. I've put many balloon tires on many middleweights. It all depends on fender clearance.

BALLOON:   49 JC Higgins Deluxe Model posted by: flavio on 11/28/2000 at 3:43:42 PM
I,m looking for a set of used allstate balloon tires, also need a set of reflectors with chrome accents to complete this bike if anybody has these items please email me.

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Balloon Tire Tandem? posted by: Oz on 11/27/2000 at 8:17:30 PM
Did Schwinn ever manufacture a ballon tire - coaster brake
tandem? I saw one a few months ago at a garage sale - I
could not find a serial number but it appeared to be from
the late seventies as far as I could tell. Kind of looked
like the Cruisers of that period. It was all Schwinn, originally
red but painted yellow. Since then it dawned on me that this
bike must either be rare or modified.
Any input on this would be appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Balloon Tire Tandem? posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 11/28/2000 at 3:40:58 PM
When you say Schwinn Tandem people think of the Schwinn Twinn. This was a 26 inch wheel tandem from the 1970's. There was the Schwinn mini-twin with 20 inch wheels and then even more mysterious is the ancient skip tooth tandem that Schwinn doesn't seem to mention. Balloon tire tandem? I dunno. It is possible they made them. What time period are you talking? 1940's, 1950's what?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Balloon Tire Tandem? posted by Kevin C. on 11/28/2000 at 5:52:02 PM
Schwinn also made a lot of middleweight, coaster-brake Twinns in the 1960s. I have one, coppertone with chrome fenders. Could the bike you saw have been a middleweight instead of a ballooner?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Balloon Tire Tandem? posted by Oz on 11/28/2000 at 10:00:54 PM
This was a Balloon tire Schwinn tandem. It had 26" S2 rims.
Like I said, it appeared to be from the late seventies. All
the tandem parts like the rear handlebar stem, sprockets,
chainguard etc. seemed similar to the Schwinn Twin midleweights.
It is only since then that I thought that it seemed rare.
Either that or it was customized.

BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by: Rif Addams on 11/26/2000 at 3:01:12 PM
I almost had two Late 40's/ Early 50's Ladies Schwinn bikes
I had seen these bikes sitting next to this shed for months. Looks like they've been sitting there for YEARS.
I finally decided to stop in and ask about them. A very kind older woman told me I could have them for free.
As I was looking at them she and her husband came out. Her husband had apparently decided since someone was intersted in them they must be made of solid gold.
He says they're worth 200 each. I tried to explain condition, desireability, etc. but he wouldn't have any part of it.
They weren't rude, and neither was I. We had a pleasant chat, and as I was leaving , the woman asked for my name and phone number. She said she'd think about it and rolled her eyes while muttering about her well intentioned but mis-guided husband.
We may still aquire them yet.
No real point to my story, just sharing some of my adventures in old bicycles.

   RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Bob on 11/28/2000 at 1:57:33 PM
I like funny stories like that. I belive we all at one time or another can relate to this one.

   RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by jimmy on 11/28/2000 at 9:29:04 PM
i was told about a black phantom turned out to be a fleet midwieght they guy wanted 500.00 for it it was junk but later i found the real deal at a garage sale for 25.00 complete and rideable. good things come to those who wait

   RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Carl on 11/29/2000 at 4:57:49 AM
That brings up a topic I was thinking of posting this morning: Where do people usually find their old bikes? Tag sales? Bike shows? Antique shops?

   RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Gary on 11/29/2000 at 1:27:30 PM
I run a Bike shop. everyone for miles knows about it. I put a sign up that says junk bikes accepted in rear. i get lots of them. all types, not just 10 speeds either. Monday i got 3 early mountain bikes, mans , womens and daughters, all matching in nice shape. just need tires and tune-ups

   RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by rd on 11/29/2000 at 3:15:53 PM
My local shops don't deal in old bikes so they give my number to anyone who comes in wanting to get rid of one. But I find most of them in old barns and estate sales but I live in a rural area mostly and world just got out I would give a few dollers for certain ones but I do get a lot of calls wanting to sell pixies and little chiks.

   RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Rif on 11/30/2000 at 3:06:38 AM
Good things Do come to those who are polite and patient!
My friend who used to have a bike shop, he dealt mainly in old bikes, called the other day. He made refrence to my getting a whole big ol' mess of stuff. Like most of the rest of his leftover stuff.
Dunno what that might include, but hey, I always did like those grab bag specials you occasionaly find! You know, buy a trunk for $5.00 and see what's inside... :-}
I find bikes everywhere, but most of the people who know me keep their eyes and ears open. And i'm always lookin'! no matter where I am, what I am doing, I've always got the radar goin'.
Plus other bike enthusiasts who have become good friends, we always share the wealth with each other. I don't know about other places, but here in my little part of northwest it's just real hip and mellow like that.

   RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Tiko on 12/1/2000 at 4:52:31 AM
Every few months I run an ad in the local paper. That usually scares up a couple good ones. Just be sure you get a lot of information over the phone before you drive 45 minutes to find a rusted 26" Sears 3-speed.

   RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Joel on 12/1/2000 at 5:45:15 AM
I run ads, put out flyers, leave cards, go to flea markets, antique stores,yard sales, ...... all with little success. If the ads are specific they get no response, if they are vague I get 100s of calls about rusty old 10 speeds for $100. Most of the people who answer the ads are incapable of providing even basic information on the phone (like tire size, gearing,...) so I do a lot of driving. And like Rif's story above, I have found that when people see an adult interested in buying a kid's bike, they get dollar signs in their pupils and the price goes up. But I find enough bikes to keep me busy and the best bikes I own were also the cheapest. Keep looking.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by JOEL on 12/1/2000 at 5:51:28 AM
Almost forgot...Most used discriptions that I get on the phone. " I think it's from the 40s", "it looks just like Pee Wee Herman's bike", "I have an old bike, how much will you give for it", and "it looks just like the one on your card (a Phantom)".

   RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Rif Addams. on 12/1/2000 at 1:30:15 PM
Yeah, I've got a pile of old 10 speeds, three speed sears and el cheapo mountain bikes.
It's cool though, I strip these down for the bearings, cups, and stuff like that.
Then I after awhile I call my scrap hauler and he gets real happy, loads them into his truck, and hauls the remains over the scales.
Works out for everyone.
I should write a book, just describing the adventures and people I've come across.
"Adventures in old bikes"... :-}

   RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by rd on 12/2/2000 at 9:50:09 PM
The problem that I have running ads is that people get to think they are worth a lot if you are looking that hard for them.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by JOEL on 12/3/2000 at 7:02:39 AM
Exactly !!! One guy called me who had inherited some NOS parts that a relative had bought from a Western Auto store. He told me in a bragging sort of tone that he had a bunch of new parts and asked how much I would pay for them. After asking several questions the only information I could get is that he had fenders and spokes and "I think they're from the 40s". And he kept demanding to know how much they were worth. I offered to look at them and he would have no part of that. He finally got frustrated and hung up.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/6/2000 at 4:44:41 PM
Gee, I thought that was a 28 inch wheel. Doesn't that say 28 on there? My eyes aren't too good...(I only came out because he said it was a 28 inch wheel)

Or " Oh No! My dad toured five states on this old Raleigh! he'd kill me if anything ever happened to it."

Can I see this Indian motorcycle? You say you want to sell it, that he wouldn't appreciate it? Well, I would....

I don"t speak English. twenny Dolla.
OR I don't have the matching mens model because I divorced him in 1952 and I ran it over with the car on purpose.

The husband returns home to find his wife selling things she should not have been. I get grabbed and wheeled around and I have to get my money back and put the tools and the Motorbike back in the garage. It was a little late for her to find out what was not supposed to have been sold.

My favorite was Trina's estate sale. The best, most wonderful time! I made a lot of new frends and had a most wonderful afternoon.
If you write the book I can donate a chapter.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/6/2000 at 4:51:45 PM
Something crazy takes ahold of him as I am closing the deal and all of a sudden prices shoot up 437% and when I say No, it's too high. That's the end if it. I'd spent all day helping dig it out and was lookinf forward to getting these things that would have finished a lot of projects for myself and some friends.

Or, I threw the other half of the bike away, didn't think you would need it.

Why do I get the crazy people? Only one real scarry idiot though. He grabed me knee and told me I have really nice thighs from cycling. I tell you, I almost stoped talking to folks about old bikes!! I almost got out of the hobby.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:BALLOON:   Lost out again! posted by Rif on 12/7/2000 at 8:52:59 PM
Oh that's too funny. I send my condolenses.
There's a guy I work with; he says theat old bikes are everywhere in his area. Even knows where ther is a Whizzer. This guy is on the up and up,(he's never b.s.'d me all the years I've known him)
Anyway, the only problem with a particular Two of them and the Whizzer. That is: they belongs to Crazy Ed. They were his high school sweetheart and his bikes back in the early fifties. She was killed in a car wreck back then, and he lost it. The bikes are in the room that is a shrine to her.
The whizzer is in the back of the house beneath a ton of old newspapers, magazines and books, and gosh knows what else. He'd have to die before anything would be allowed to be removed from the house.
As I told my pal, My heart goes out to this poor torured soul. Unfortunately the darker side of me says, Aw come on! you're not doing anything with 'em. I need them.
Dude says that he was actually going to talk to Crazy Ed's sister about the Whizzer.
I wouldn't dream of wanting the other two. But I won't aquire it if it would really freak the guy out. That's too high of a price to pay.
Lot of strange things you come across in this hobby.
By the same token though, some of the coolest people I've met are from this same type of bike hunting...

BALLOON:   silver King posted by: david on 11/26/2000 at 1:51:22 PM
I found ladies 1936 Silver King and I want to know about the history of the company or bikes and the value the bike I found.

   RE:BALLOON:   silver King posted by sam on 11/27/2000 at 5:47:34 PM
David,great find!I too have one they were part of the Monark bicycle co.In the 30's aluminium was the hot metal,every thing was made of it.several bike companys tried to make bikes of aluminium but only the silver king had any success,they were made until the late 40's or early 50's when monark was bought by huffy.does your have the butterfly center kick stand,stanless or alum. fenders,delta horn light?As you can tell silver king was a top of the line bike,have fun---sam

BALLOON:   serial number shelby posted by: chris on 11/26/2000 at 1:42:48 PM
I have a Shelby bicycle, I am trying to identify the manufacture date and model. The tag reads No.51 100---. any information at all would greatly be appreciated Thanx , Chris.

   RE:BALLOON:   serial number shelby posted by rd on 11/26/2000 at 7:21:10 PM
I have a serial number list but it may or not be correct but appears shelby started putting the year at the beginning of the serial number in 1949 before that they used letters.

BALLOON:   Schwinn Speedster posted by: Don Hayden on 11/26/2000 at 7:15:42 AM
I have a Schwinn Speedster hanging in the garage I've been condering restoring. All the chrome is badly rusted so is it better to replace wheels, handlebars, etc.? Are there any suggestions for repainting the bike and keeping it orginal?
Thanx 4 ur help

   RE:BALLOON:   Schwinn Speedster posted by Jim Brees on 11/26/2000 at 1:22:57 PM
What are your intentions for the bike? If used for a daily rider, then the restoration will be quite different than going for a concourse, show-quality bike. Many times it comes down to the money you are willing to part with. Get a copy of the book by Richard Truett "How To Restore Your Balloon Tire Bicycle: A Step-By-Step Guide" . This will answer a lot of your questions and provide excellent hints and instruction. Good Luck!

   RE:RE:BALLOON:   Schwinn Speedster posted by Dave on 12/1/2000 at 5:17:32 AM
I haven't seen that book before. Who sells it?

   RE:BALLOON:   Schwinn Speedster posted by Jim on 12/1/2000 at 6:05:17 PM
You can get the book from the Classic and Antique Bike Exchange. I'm not sure of the current price, but it is an excellent reference guide, and well worth it.

AGE / VALUE:   26" Hollywood posted by: Stephen Todd VanMatre on 11/25/2000 at 11:00:11 PM
While on a Thanksgiving trip to Utah, I found a 26 inch Schwinn Hollywood in REAL nice shape ( years of being covered in red Utah dust ) at a yard sale.
After wrangling the man down to the sum of $10 bucks, I was a happy camper. It has the serial # H022916 and according to some of the Schwinn searial number webpages around it appears to be from Aug. 1960.
Is this right? It also is blue and has a Mark V coaster brake.
My wife loves it and I think we will keep it, but we were wondering what it might be worth to Schwinn people.

Thanks everyone, Happy Holidays!
Stephen Todd VanMatre

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   26 posted by cd on 11/26/2000 at 8:26:00 AM
They are fairy common. Your best bet would be to ride it and considered your $10.00 a fair investment

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by: chuck on 11/25/2000 at 2:32:46 PM
What can you tell me about serial#m8043000( or last # a 6). Old rusty bike with metal foldout baskets in rear, fenders, and what looks like a generator holder on front forks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by Kevin C. on 11/25/2000 at 8:24:38 PM
Made in December 1968. Rusty 10 speeds of that period have practically no value, from what I have seen.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by chuck on 11/27/2000 at 11:37:40 AM
Ah, yes, it may have no value, but I've been riding it for over 10 years. And that gives it value to me. Thank you for the info.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by Bruce B. on 11/27/2000 at 3:35:51 PM
So what, exactly, is your question?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by rd on 11/27/2000 at 4:56:07 PM
you were suppose to say its a rare find and worth $1000's even tho I think you were right on.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by stacy on 11/28/2000 at 7:50:47 AM
If he's had it for 10 yrs. and its rusty i would question the value to him.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by turkey neck on 11/28/2000 at 2:19:56 PM
You know what, it takes years to get that kind of rust. Its hardcore chractor. So Chuck you hold your head up high and ride your old rusty 68. When your out riding your vintage 10 speed, just remember, they all envy you and wish they can get there hands on that bike. Look how many replies you got on it. Boy, somebody wants it, don't take less than 150.00 for it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn girls 10 speed posted by chuck on 11/29/2000 at 12:49:38 PM
Hey, Turkey neck..., You're right! I let it rust so that nobody would be interested in stealing it! The bike still works even though it looks like it's held together with rust. I'm actually glad it's NOT worth cleaning.

AGE / VALUE:   1969 Schwinn Hollywood 26" women's posted by: Sherry on 11/24/2000 at 7:46:32 AM
I have a green colored, good condition, original paint, seat, & fenders(the pedals have been replaced). I am wondering what the approximate value might be, can anyone help?

WANTED:   Any 26" cantilever frame posted by: Zack on 11/23/2000 at 4:27:55 PM
Hey everyone, I am looking for a used 26" cantilever frame. I would prefer a Schwinn, but anything will probably work. Frame must be straight, but paint is not important. Please email me at dwood16@aol.com if you have a frame like this you want to sell. Thanks.

AGE / VALUE:   Old Schwinn, Age and name wanted? posted by: Vince on 11/22/2000 at 4:49:10 PM
I Recently aquired a neat old Schwinn Bike and need some info? Serial # is located on the bottom of frame
Under the pedal crank. #H44074.. Badge on yolk says: new world Arnold schwinn. there is a decal on seat tube of, a Top hat going through a ring.
like the old "flying Circus" paintings on the old WW1 biplanes.. It is a man's bike and has unusual ram horn type handlebars. a racing type of bar..The bike is a single speed,
Burgandy in color and appears to be some type of racer.. spring seat, no tanks, and a smaller front fender with a profound ridge running up the center..like a fin..any info on this old bike would be appreciated. Thanks Vince

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Schwinn, Age and name wanted? posted by rd on 11/22/2000 at 7:25:44 PM
most likely a 53 schwinn world considered a lightweight. it was an inexpensive schwinn. If you want to sell your best bet would be to find sone who had one as a kid and wants to relive.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Schwinn, Age and name wanted? posted by Gary on 11/23/2000 at 2:38:16 PM
according to Schwinn posting on their site, crank bracket dating was stopped mid 1951, making it hard for this to be a 53 eh?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Schwinn, Age and name wanted? posted by rd on 11/27/2000 at 4:57:44 PM
your right sometimes i don't see what i amlooking at.

AGE / VALUE:   Colson kids bike posted by: Lee on 11/20/2000 at 8:59:21 PM
I have a Colson bike with 12 x 2.00 tires. The frame is a boys frame, large enough for my 10 year old. Nobody I have talked to knows what it is. I am guessing 1930's or 40's. I would appreciate any help on year, model, literature or value. Anything would be more than I have now. Thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Colson kids bike posted by BillG on 11/21/2000 at 6:05:14 AM
Are the tires solid, or can you pump air into them?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Colson kids bike posted by Joel on 11/21/2000 at 1:12:10 PM
Does the frame look waaay bigger than the wheels? If so it is probably a HI/LO bike. I don't know much about them but have seen lots of them for sale. I think they are pre WWII.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Colson kids bike posted by Lee on 11/26/2000 at 10:09:59 AM
The tires are inflatable and the frame is waaay bigger than the tires. There would be no pedaling while turning as the pedals would hit the ground.