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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   1927 Raleigh motorcycle,sidecar brochure on E-bay. posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/16/2000 at 1:42:59 PM
Check this out! E-bay item #526411397 1923 Raleigh Sales Brochure Shows motorcycles and sidecars. Raleigh made their own sidecars? (not my auction)

   They made cars too. posted by Grant on 12/20/2000 at 9:08:12 AM
They made a small 3 wheeled 4 cylinder car too. In roadster and
delivery bodies. In 1937 they sold the car line and the new owners
changed the name to "Reliant" so they wouldn't have to file the "R"
off all the molds. Reliant continued in business making small
fibreglass cars with 3 wheels (Regal) and 4 (Robin) until a few months

AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Racer boys model? posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/16/2000 at 8:45:37 AM
By the time I get this untangled, across the field of other bikes and up those stairs I am wobbling back and forth, out of breath, and ready to pass out. Even though I'm in no condition to battle the Master Haggler behind the counter who will leave me naked and broke if I don't watch it. Now is the time to haggle out an acceptable deal. If I blow it and refuse, I have to put it back where I got it from.

What is highest anybody should pay for a Schwinn Racer?
26 X 1 3/8 wheels Sturmey-Archer hub a boys model in red. late 1950's
Please advise me what you would offer for this.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Racer boys model? posted by Robert on 12/16/2000 at 11:47:46 AM

I paid 20.00 for my black one. Had aftermarket lights, speedo. Needs only tune , rubber and brakepads. Color is black with some , not bad , scratches in paint. I considered it a fair , not great deal. But colors other than black seem to attract considerably more dollars. I'm not much help . Sorry

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Schwinn Racer boys model? posted by Kevin C. on 12/16/2000 at 2:51:19 PM
I got a 1960 3-speed men's Schwinn Traveler, which is basically the same bike, for $35 at a bike show last winter. All original, great white paint, chrome fenders, elaborate decals, red and white "S" seat with crash rail, perfect mechanically.

AGE / VALUE:   Nokian tires from Finland posted by: ChristopherRobin on 12/16/2000 at 7:43:58 AM
My shop mechanic has these tires on his machine. He says these are "true 28's" Also said these are like $85.00 each. I like these tires! They are Nokian Hakkapel llTTA (W)106 OLC QUALITY MADE IN FINLAND 47-622 28 x 1 5/8 X 1 3/4 (DIRECTIONAL BUT THE WORD DIRECTIONAL IS NOT PRINTED ON THE TIRE) 28 X 1 700 X 45 45 C

He also had a another size/ make tire that was studded and it is available from Nashbar for 20.00 I didn't know that studded tires were made. My pal is 54 years old and rides something like 20 miles every day hasn't ride in a car in 20 years and is really way, way ahead of me. He talks about things and I lose him. Most every question is answered and he is patient with me and polite. I will continue to try to get him to contribute his stories/and information. Unfortunitly, some of the sharpest, experienced, and really knowledgable bicycle people are still hiding in the woodwork. He can get the tires if anybody wants them, but they should ber available anywhere.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nokian tires from Finland posted by Warren on 12/16/2000 at 8:23:14 AM
Hi Christopher...I'm running that exact tire on my "snow" bike...except mine are 700X35c. These do say directional and have the appropriate arrow. They are studded and I wouldn't ride anything else in the winter...they stick like glue. I believe I paid about $40 cdn each...someone is marking up those tires! BTW, I would try to get the narrower tire...I've tried wider studded mtn bike tires but they seem to float about a bit more.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Nokian tires from Finland posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/16/2000 at 8:37:39 AM
You know what? These do have the arrow on the tire. These are great tires and there seems to be a wide variety out there.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by: Dorian Smith on 12/15/2000 at 8:58:37 PM
I'm working on a 1967 Sports that was in pretty good condition when I rescued it from a junkyard. If I decided to replace the slightly rusted steel rims, where can I buy them new? I've seen 26 x 1 3/8 on a lot of old department store bikes. If I'm willing, if necessary, to lace my own wheels (using the old hubs, especially the bullet-proof SA 3-speed) what spoke size is necessary? Or is it better to save the rims and just replace the old spokes?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by irishhiker@aol.com on 12/16/2000 at 4:19:57 AM
It's usually not difficult to find an old Schwinn girl's three-speed for a few dollars. Salvaging the wheels (they also had SA hubs) might be the cheapest and easiest way to go. Otherwise, I would try to save your original rims and hub and replace the spokes.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/16/2000 at 8:45:01 AM
If I fall to my death off the ladder and they ask what I was up to. The answer will be "He had to get at those wheels up there!" Are you wanting Raleigh patern rims or basic steel 26 X 1 3/8 EA3 wheels? Raleigh pattern I can't get unless you dont mind the Word Schwinn in the rims. Basic 26 X 1 3/8 I can do. I can fetch a set for you fairly cheap. I have my nose in the air and have limited myself to fancy alloy rims.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/16/2000 at 9:00:28 AM
Older Raleigh bikes had Stainless Steel spokes and I unscrew the spoke nipples and put these older spokes in a newer rim. But yours probably are just plain spokes. Try to find another old bike and switch the wheels.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by Sheldon Brown on 12/16/2000 at 11:07:36 AM
The "bomb resistant" Raleigh pattern rims were the most important difference between the Sports and the lower-level models. Nothing else comes close except the Schwinn knock-offs.

Your 1967 model will have 32/40 spoking instead of the inferior 36/36 system used later.

The similar looking Schwinn rims would only be available in 36 holes, and they also use an oddball tire size, 597 mm instead of the 590 mm used on the Raleigh. Although both of these sizes are nominally 26 x 1 3/8 they are absolutely incompatible.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/16/2000 at 1:19:26 PM
The Raleigh pattern rim is EA 3 British. The Schwinn version of the same rim is EA 1 Schwinn size and they are incompatable. So when you buy tires you have to tell them to be sure to get EA 3. I'd tell them it is to a Raleigh. The Schwinn rim takes an oddball size tire as Sheldon pointed out.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by Randy on 12/17/2000 at 8:33:27 PM
ChristopherRobin wrote "The Schwinn rim takes an oddball size tire as Sheldon pointed out."

Ah, but what a ride! I had a 24" frame Sports with wheels I built up with alloy EA1 rims and gumwall tires. What a commuter!! I had an S-A quadrant shifter on it too. Not as convenient as the thumb shifter, but very positive shifting. Man, I regret giving up that bike.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by Bill Putnam on 12/18/2000 at 9:21:29 AM
The original Raleigh Pattern EA 3 590 mm rims are very
difficult to find as new old stock spares. Your best
bet would be to search around for an old non rusty Raleigh
if you want to stick with the original steel rims. Another
option is to build up alloy 590 mm rims, however I have
never found these in any drilling other than 36. Your
Sports would have the original 32 front/40 rear, so the
new rims would not work with your hubs. You can find
Sturmey AW hubs in 36 hole drillings on old Schwinns
pretty easily, or on e bay. I have a Sports with the
Weinmann alloy rims and it really makes the bike a lot
nicer to ride-lighter and much better wet weather braking.
My local bike shop, Yellow Jersey, Madison, WI has these
rims in stock. They look somewhat similar to the original
Raleigh pattern rims. E mail yellowje@execpc.com if you
are interested in having them sell you a pair.

Sheldon Brown has a good discussion on bicycle tire sizing
at http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tire_sizing.html. Harris
also at times stocks the alloy 590 rims, but they are out
of stock at the moment. The rims are listed at Harris at

Personally, I would recommend staying with the original
590 rims, or going to 700c rims, rather than using the
Schwinn 597-there's so little choice in tires, and as
far as I know there are no new rims available in this
size and all the rims this size were steel.

You could just clean your rims-use a scotchbrite pad
and some WD-40, or VVVintage sells cleaning supplies.
If they're not too rusty they may clean up nicely.

For replacement spokes, just measure the spokes on your
wheels if you want to relace your old wheels with the
same hub/rim. I find an on line spoke length calculator
at http://www.ics.uci.edu/'dhalem/java/wheel/wheel.html
pretty useful-he even has the Weinmann 590 rim and
Sturmey hub in the database (but no original Raleigh
pattern rim). If you do build your own wheels I recommend
the book 'The Bicycle Wheel' by Jobst Brandt as a good

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   RIMS posted by Mike Stone on 12/20/2000 at 7:39:43 PM
A couple of guys said it already on this thread and I support their view:

The Raleigh had unique and superior rims. The rim patters had a raised center, unlike their USA counterparts such as Schwinn. The Raleigh rims take abuse much better than any other and are less prone to becoming egg-shaped.

For what-ever reason, though, the chrome on Raleigh rims seemed poor. While comparable USA rims may rust and pit, the Raleigh rims seem to develope a rust that gets under the chrome and literally lifts it off the rim. I have never commonly seen this phenomenon on USA made rims.

Obviously, if you are simply looking for functional rims, anything will do. Schwinn would be the most recognizeable due to their labeling and Schwinn specific tire requirement.

If you simply need functional rims at an affordable price, may I suggest you keep your eyes open for a ROSS brand bicycle from which you could cannabalize the rims. ROSS used a double nickle and then chrome plating process that really had good longevity.


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bob Jackson posted by: Mike Spainhour on 12/15/2000 at 4:10:18 PM
Anyone have an idea how much a 1970's vintage Bob Jackson is worth??
Lots of diffrent stuff Campi thru the bars shift levers clip out cable holders
etc. Other stuff not stock I am sure but kinda nice ride.

Thanks Mike

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Bob Jackson posted by Warren on 12/16/2000 at 8:16:02 AM
You will get a "better" response from the vintage lightweight discussion group...sounds like a nice bike however!.

FOR SALE:   62 Raleigh Roadster posted by: Bruce on 12/14/2000 at 7:35:12 PM
I have listed a 1962 Roadster on ebay #1105060911 just in case anyone is interested.

AGE / VALUE:   Sturmey-Archer is now Sun Race Sturmey-Archer posted by: ChristopherRobin on 12/14/2000 at 5:15:53 PM
Sturmey Archer is now Sun Race Sturmey-Archer. Taiwanese firm Sun Race will produce the Sturmey-Archer hubs. Read it yourself at http://www.thisisnottingham.co.uk/ Article dated 13/12/00 (do a archive search under Sturmey Archer)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sturmey-Archer is now Sun Race Sturmey-Archer posted by sam on 12/15/2000 at 10:49:45 PM
the article I read said sun race bought the name.Why am I not supprised?I hope Sun Race does make the S/A hub and hope there parts interchange with originals-but some how they just won't be the same.Kinda like the replacement fenders on my schwinn-looked good,glad they're made,but not as good as original.It's getting late got to go---sam

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   English Junkyards posted by: Bill H on 12/14/2000 at 10:44:22 AM
Was watching an interesting program called "Junkyard Wars" in which two teams fabricate devices from gear salvaged from a junkyard. In one event a team had four old bikes they scrounged up, and two were salvagable rod brake roadsters. Perhaps British junkyards hold some good stuff. Does anyone from the UK make regular trips to the trash heap? In the US West great British bikes are hard to find anywhere. The situation seems better on the East coast, in the older cities. Happy hunting.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   English Junkyards posted by Tim Powell on 12/14/2000 at 3:57:48 PM
You bet I do. I go round all the local scrap dumps in South Wales, UK.,and have many excellent bicycles from them. The oldest is a locally made machine from 1904. Most of the guys who run these dumps know me by now and call if they have anything interesting. I have 17 Roadsters.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   English Junkyards posted by Bill H on 12/14/2000 at 5:29:40 PM
It seems in the US anyway, many bikes sit in a garage for almost 50 years, virtually unused, then they get tossed out or sold at a yard sale. I remember we used to ride around town looking into open garages in the hopes of spying a desired bike, then we could talk the owner into giving it to us. We found a couple old Schwinns this way, but I wanted Sheffield Steel. BH

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   English Junkyards posted by Richard E on 12/17/2000 at 7:49:33 AM
I've never managed to find anything worth having in Nottingham, although I bought a 1952 4speed/rod brake bike, from a man who seemed to have a very large collection of SA hubs- but would not sell any!

AGE / VALUE:   Kids say ther darndest things! posted by: ChristopherRobin on 12/13/2000 at 8:36:58 AM
When I mentioned I like older British bicycles like Raleigh, the woman told me she had a Raleigh as a child and still has one only it's newer and she remembered the kids in England saying "Ride a Raleigh ride a wreck, Ride a Hercules break you neck" I frowned at her and she laughed and grinned. I have never heard this before and Raleigh's or Hercules were never wrecks but were known for quality. I wonder how many brats chanted this? Possibly started up by a competitor perhaps.
Anyway, I think it is terrible.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Kids say ther darndest things! posted by Paul on 12/13/2000 at 7:07:30 PM
Hi, Christopher. John Pinkerton once told me that Hercules bikes broke the price barrier in England...the working person was finally able to own his/her own bicycle for only 3 weeks wages! Raleighs were a lot more, I assume.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Kids say ther darndest things! posted by Kevin C. on 12/15/2000 at 6:36:09 PM
As kids, we always said, "Ford: Fix Or Repair Daily," but we had no idea why we were really saying it. It might have had something to do with the fact that General Motors' Central Foundry was in our town.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Kids say ther darndest things! posted by Oscar on 12/16/2000 at 3:37:35 PM
"Fix it again, Tony" (Fiat). As kids, we say darned few Fiats, and I never say one in a shop.

MISC:   Question for the planetary community posted by: bicyclepriest on 12/13/2000 at 4:36:58 AM
I have obtained a threaded driver for sturmey archer hubs.
I was wanting to thread a freewheel on to an S/A 3 speed hub.
I know sheldon did this with a 7 speed freewheel but had to
change out the axle and do some other modifications. These
threaded drivers were set up for 3 speed freewheel cogs but I
have not ever seen one of these freewheels or even a four speed
freewheel for sale. So, what I am asking is if I can fit a 5speed freewheel
to a S/A hub with out any "major" or "minor" modification? I
have a 6 1/4 inch axle. Has anyone of the planetary community
tried this before?

   RE:MISC:   Question for the planetary community posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/13/2000 at 9:03:01 AM
The Threaded driver will take a modern deraileur cluster (the threaded kind) A older 3 cog type or four type derailur cluster or what Sheldon did with some tinkering will work also. Cyclo Gear Company made converters and I would look over what they offered. The newer Sturmey-Archer hubs were recently re-designed with longer axles but I do not think you can use a recent axle in a older hub. I don't know! The newer hubs use a diffrent driver so the threaded driver from 1950 will not work. I have not heard of anybody having a machinist make up a special extra long Sturmey-Archer axle for this kind of project.Pay close attention to what Sheldon did and ask him and I think Tony Hadland can offer help on this too. Sheldon's set up was probably the furthest anybody can go as this tinkering has limitations. In a A.W. hub you do not want to go larger than a 24 tooth cog can you? I'm over my head with this one but hollar if you need some parts because I have some things and may be able to help out.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Question for the planetary community posted by Albert on 12/13/2000 at 9:25:50 AM
Christopher, the S/A hub can tolerate a rear cog of at 32T. I have used one of this size made from a nine-lug Shimano cassette cog---six of the lugs were of course removed. Also, sorry to say that it has been my experience that the Shimano 3-speed hubs will be instantly destroyed by anything larger than 26T.

   RE:MISC:   Question for the planetary community posted by Randy on 12/17/2000 at 8:48:19 PM
I'm fortunate to posess one of the adapters that John Hunziker made in the 70's, that screws onto a threaded driver and takes three 3/32" Suntour sprockets. I have it set up with 14-22-34.

If someone is *really* interested in it, email me and we'll deal. It's a collector's item from a true pioneer of hybrid gearing.

On the other hand, I have a copy of John's machining drawing for a version for Shimano sprockets, that I don't think he'd mind me sharing. Likewise, contact me about that.

MISC:   Indy Show & Swap posted by: the toy king on 12/11/2000 at 12:26:16 PM
Any "english bike" guys going to the Indy Feb. show and swap??? Great show, mostly muscle bikes and ballon stuff but you never know???

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Transfers posted by: Rolf on 12/9/2000 at 8:54:54 PM
Does anyone know where I can access artwork for the transfers on a 1954 Rudge Sports? Alternatively does anyone have a photograph of these? They are needed to restore a bike that appears to have been originally painted burgundy with gold pinstriping. The only remnants of the original transfers indicate that the down tube transfer read "Rudge Sports" and the one on the chainguard read "Rudge Whitworth". There is nothing remaining of the seat tube transfer. I would be grateful for any help.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Transfers posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/10/2000 at 9:44:00 AM
The place is "Nick at LLoyds" the man to speak to is Nick Tithecloth.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Transfers posted by Bill H on 12/11/2000 at 3:34:27 PM
The web address is http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NICK_AT_LLOYDS/

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Transfers posted by Bill Lambert on 12/20/2000 at 12:07:07 PM
I am restoring a bike that I think should be very similar to yours, which is a 1953 Rudge Sports. Through this great forum I also recently found out about the source for Raleigh / Rudge decals or transfers, H. Lloyds in England. I think that you may also be interested in what the specific decals are and where they are placed on the bike. I would think that the decals and placements for the 1953 and 1954 Rudge bikes would be the same or damn close. Hopefully this description of a late 1953 Rudge decals (or early 1954 since I bought the bike in the spring of 1954) will be a help:

- On the seat tube near the top is a diamond shaped decal (approx. 1 3/4" x 1 1/8") Cream colored background, with gold/black lettering. It has a large "2030" on it and smaller lettering, "HIGH CARBON TUBING". Also, small black lettering, "MADE BY RALEIGH INDUSTRIES" is near the top of the decal. In the background is an outline drawing of Sir Walter Raleigh riding a bicycle. I could not find this decal on the H. Lloyds internet website list. I have not tried to contact them as yet however.

- Below the diamond decal, on the seat tube, in small print (less than 1/8") gold and black lettering is "SINCE 1869". I did not see this on the H.Lloyds website list.

- Again, on the seat tube below the "Since 1869" decal, is a written script (approx. 3/16" Caps and 1/8" lettering) gold center and black border "Britain's Best Bicycle". This was not on the H. Lloyds list.

- On the top tube, (between the head tube and seat tube) the same size and color written script as noted above, "Made in England". Maybe this was only on exported bikes? I did not see this on the H. Lloyds list.

- On the down tube as you noted there is block type lettering (approx. 3/8" caps and 5/16 letters) in gold/ black, "Rudge Sports". This was on the H. Lloyds list.

- On the chain guard, as you noted more block type lettering (approx. 3/8" caps and 1/4" letters) in gold/black, an arrowhead pointing aft, "Rudge Whitworth" and another arrowhead pointing forward. This decal was listed by H.Lloyds

- The rear fender has the Rudge logo above the rear reflector and the white painted area. The logo is approx. 2 1/8" high X 1 1/4 wide with the hand symbol, the word "RUDGE" near the top and "Nottingham England" in small letters near the bottom. This was on H. Lloyds web list.

- The front fender has a small gold and black decal (approx. 7/8" X 3/8") with Sir Walter Raleigh riding a bicycle, a shield in front of him with "RI" in it and very small lettering, "Raleigh Industries" on the bottom. The decal is placed behind the front fender chrome nose bullet and oriented so that the decal faces forward. This is intended to be viewed from the front of the bike, like the "head badge" or front metal logo. This decal was not on H. Lloyds website list.

For items not on H. Lloyds website list, I doubt they are obtainable at this point, but I haven't talked to H. Lloyds as yet either. Hope this is of some help.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Transfers posted by Rolf on 12/23/2000 at 12:44:09 AM
Thank you very much. That just what I needed to know.

AGE / VALUE:   51 Raleigh Sport posted by: Nick on 12/9/2000 at 12:19:08 PM
I just got a 1951 Raleigh Sport. The bike is black with a AW 3speed rear hub dated 51. The bike also has Brooks B66 leather seat. I got the bike for 15$ i talked the guy down from 25$. I was just woundering about the value of this bike. The bike is all original and there is no rust on the bike there are a couple of little dings in rear fender and that is about it and usuall paint chiping.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   51 Raleigh Sport posted by Warren on 12/10/2000 at 5:03:52 PM
"51 is a nice early example...I personally prefer the older black ones. Age/value are always open for interpretation...I'm conservative about pricing and come from a part of the world where Raleighs are plentiful so I would value your bike at $150 (+/-$50). The right buyer might pay more for a nice example like yours. Some people will be very patient and pay $25. You did very well.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   51 Raleigh Sport posted by Chris on 12/13/2000 at 10:39:46 AM

You said that Raleighs are plentiful in your part of the world. Where is this? I am in the market for a black 60's-70's 3-speed commuter but am having a hard time finding one.

Thanks, Chris

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   51 Raleigh Sport posted by Warren on 12/14/2000 at 12:49:30 PM
Toronto, Ontario...once known as the Queens City, it had a considerable loyalist heritage and subsequently a lot of Brit bikes. If you're ever heading up this way, drop me a line and I'll let you know what's around, although the black ones are older and harder to find. Green Sports models from the 70's abound.

AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Hub date stamp? posted by: ChristopherRobin on 12/9/2000 at 10:40:26 AM
Hercules B-type 3 3 speed hub has some 8's on the side where spoke holes are . Does this mean they tried to put date stamps on Hercules 3 speed hubs? Marked Hercules. Birmingham, England

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Hub date stamp? posted by Randy on 12/12/2000 at 10:28:11 PM
The only dated Hercules hub I have is an SW, dated 58 11. The B Type 3 and B Type 5 are both undated. Neither has a spoke hole number on the flange either, as some (most? all?) S-A hubs had.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules Hub date stamp? posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/14/2000 at 11:19:52 AM
The Huercules S.W. was date stamped but the Hercules A.W. was not. But I do have a Hercules B-type three 3 speed with these two figure 8's on the side and I'm trying to figure this out. Also I have a alloy shelled T.C.W.mark one coaster brake and it is labelled up T.C.W.

FOR SALE:   My garage is too small posted by: Bruce on 12/9/2000 at 8:39:38 AM
I am parting with 4 bicycles:1 is currently on ebay #1104188580, the pictures aren't very good though.The other 3 are a 69 ladies Robin Hood, a men's 5 speed Robin Hood and a DL.1 with working lights. I will consider all fair offers and will tell you all their faults that I am aware of. I think I can come up with better pictures, but I am not having much luck with pictures on ebay for some reason.