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Archived: English Roadsters

MISC:   Project, in case your're interested posted by: Dale Oswald on 12/8/2000 at 10:51:35 AM
I refuse to ride my Superbe (or my Vision) in the salt, so I'm building a recumbent out of a BMX bike. One of the frame tubes is part of a '74 Grand Prix and of course the gearing will be SA: S5 guts in a 20" AW wheel.

I know a fellow who had just bought an arc welder and I offered him a project bike: I had a beat up, rusty Chopper on which he impemented my idea of making a recumbent by welding a boom and crank on the front. That was years ago, he still has the bike but I failed to ride it before he moved far away. He says it maintains its odd, twitchy Chopper handling, though.

   RE:MISC:   Project, in case your're interested posted by Wings on 12/8/2000 at 10:51:37 PM
Vision = The Vision Recumbent?
I ride Easy Racers EZ1 (very modified); Also a Ryan (currently in modification). I also have an old Rebike which I modified had some welding done to get a post to hold a front derailer so I could run 3 chain rings -- I ppossibly had the first 21 speed Rebike (Before the company came out with them). It is extremely heavy, rides like a chopper, and gives a great work out in the spring.
I have some Mongoose Fs1 Freestyle frames that I was always going to (someday) make a recumbent with -- but never have -- I still hope to do that. I take it you are going to build a SWB? I think half the fun of bikes is the tinkering that can be done and the outlet they provide for an expression of creativity!

AGE / VALUE:   water-slid decals (do-it-yourself) posted by: sam on 12/8/2000 at 6:08:36 AM
Check out Bel Inc.'s web page at www.beldecal.com they sell water-slide decal paper for the ink-jet printers and explain how to use it.I have not tried this product but it sounds interesting---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   water-slid decals (do-it-yourself) posted by JimW. on 12/11/2000 at 11:39:56 AM
I've used something similar. The stuff I used was designed
for use in laser printers, though. Ink-jet ink is water-based. By this time, there may be ink-jet that isn't water
soluble. After all, they have ink-jet thermal transfer material for use on (launderable)clothing.

The biggest drawback to printer-output decals is that neither ink-jet nor laser printers use white ink. If you're
applying a decal against a dark surface, it won't read very well. As many makers' transfers were in metallic gold, that's also a problem, as of now.

This material may be used in the traditional way, with silkscreened graphics. In that case, printing a white layer is no problem. You could also do a set of stencils and airbrush lacquer onto the waterslide paper. In all uses, a
coat of clear lacquer is applied to the image. That's the part that slides off, the colors slide with it.

The material I've used is sold through electronics supply sources. Heat is used to fuse the thermal ink
used in laser printers onto the paper. Using an iron, this
printing can be then fused to the copper surface. Water is used to lift off the paper backing, the same as with decals.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good detail, Jim posted by Mike Stone on 12/12/2000 at 9:35:15 PM
Jim makes some very impmortant points about printing your own home-computer generated decals. I made my own about a year ago and put them on the bike. I gave the decals several good coats of clear coat to protect them.

After about six or eight months, though, the ink faded. In fact, the ink virually disappeared. Apparently, normal home-computer printer inks are not UV light safe.

For the record, I have a Hewlet-Packard Deskjet 712C printer and use Hewlet-packard ink cartridges.

Mike Stone

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good detail, Jim posted by JimW. on 12/13/2000 at 6:59:07 AM
Yow! That's worse than I would have expected. At digital output
shops patronized by photographers, I've seen ink-jet archival
printing offered. I presume that means that some ink-jet
cartridges come with UV-resistant inks. It may be for a high-end
machine, though.

Art supply stores sell UV-resistant clear sprays. That might
help with the fading problem. Art supply stores also sell
fairly inexpensive silk screen setups. Ultimately, the best
decals are still produced this way: by printing the graphic
on water-slide paper.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Good detail, Jim posted by JimW. on 12/13/2000 at 8:02:40 AM
I just did some quick research. The printer which outputs
archival images which will last at least 25 years is the
Epson Stylus Photo 2000P. It uses a 6-color cartridge. The inks
are compounded with actual pigments, rather than dyes.
This printer costs $889.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   measurements posted by: garvin on 12/8/2000 at 4:50:51 AM

Who can help me out with these measurements re: Raleigh dl-1?
(In mm please)
Seat tube angle:
Seat tube length:
Bottom bracket height:
Head tube length:
Chainstay length:
Front center distance:

Head tube in degrees:


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   measurements posted by Kevin C on 12/8/2000 at 2:09:31 PM
DL-1s came in more than one frame size.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   measurements posted by garvin on 12/8/2000 at 5:17:20 PM
24" size frame.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   measurements posted by Randy on 12/12/2000 at 12:38:42 PM
Garvin, go to http://www.rickadee.net/'zephyrus/dl-1/dl-1.html

I measured my DL-1 when I was straightening the frame, and have the measurements (in PS and PDF downloadable files) on the page.


AGE / VALUE:   Has anybody ever heard of a Grand Champion Bicycle? posted by: Mike Stone on 12/7/2000 at 12:14:41 PM
I have a "Made in England" AMF brand "Grand Champion".

The S/A hub shows it as being from 1963. Of course, rear rims and hubs can be easily switched, but I think we can be reasonably sure it is from 1963 as the rear rim matches the front.

The bike is an upright "English Racer" style three-speed; black. Good looking wheel and rides has that characteristic zippy smoothness of a British upright.

It has a nice, big, brass headbadge with a knight in armor on it and the words "Grand Champion".

Can anybody tell me anything about this bike? There must be some interesting info/history about it.

Was it made by Raleigh? Hercules? Raleigh owned Hercules? What do you know? Maybe we can piece some info together.


MISC:   cog removal posted by: bicyclepriest on 12/6/2000 at 9:09:40 AM
I have an old hub that has a threaded driver. I can get the
lock ring off, but I do not have a chain whip and do not know
where to get one that can twist off a 1/8" cog. Does anyone
know where to get a chain whip this size or any idea how to
get the cog off. thanx in advance

   RE:MISC:   cog removal posted by Oscar on 12/6/2000 at 11:22:44 AM
My chain whip is sized for 1/8. I bought it at www.thethirdhand.com. Otherwise, a bike shop can order one.

   RE:MISC:   cog removal posted by Dale Oswald on 12/7/2000 at 9:55:09 AM
Or just pay the shop to remove it for you, they should only charge a couple of bucks. The right shop might even do it for free if they understand what they're working on.

   RE:RE:MISC:   cog removal posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/7/2000 at 5:10:12 PM
Doesn't Sheldon's page explain how to make a chain whip? I thought it does. Anyway you take a bar shaped piece piece of steel and rivit it onto a length of chain. Or pay a shop to do it for you. They sell them for deraileur chain. I have the official Raleigh Tool that takes off the threaded ring that went on top of the screwed driver. It is marked Raleigh Industries. I hardly ever have used it but it is one of my prized tools it is in a case that hangs over the work- bench at home.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   cog removal posted by Oscar on 12/10/2000 at 2:25:10 PM
I wanted to make my own too, and I spent months looking for a stout metal bar exactly how many millimeters wide? I gave up too soon and mailordered one from The Third Hand. (Nice people.)

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need information on Brake pads for Raleigh English Tourister posted by: Scott Gregory on 12/6/2000 at 5:30:54 AM
I have a Raleigh English Tourist Bike with mechanical brakes from the 70's. I have lost the front right side brake pad which fits onto the post and I have been searching bike shops in the area where I live to no avail.
Can anyone help as to where I could find replacements?
Much appreciated, email me at s.gregory1@home.com

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Need information on Brake pads for Raleigh English Tourister posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/7/2000 at 5:13:16 PM
Sheldon Brown sells them at his Harris Cyclery site. http://www.Sheldonbrown.com You are wanting the sh 70 Fibrax brake shoe. e-mail him after looking at his site.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by: Dennis on 12/5/2000 at 7:13:14 PM
Hi all! I have a Brooks B-72, probably original on a 1969 Raleigh Sport in need of help. Leather is entirely uncracked but hard as a rock. Should I get into a long regime of Proofide or do something a bit more drastic? Thanks in advance!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by Oscar on 12/6/2000 at 7:49:21 AM
Somewhere in the archives of this page, there is a discussion where some guy cut his own leather from a leather shop, and riveted it onto his saddle frame.

Otherwise, a long Proofide regime can be relaxing.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by sam on 12/6/2000 at 9:23:48 AM

check out Jeff's site seat mold ,but before you go to the trouble to recover first see if the original is good.(it's always the best)Remember leather is just like your skin, when it's hard and dry it crackes,so treat it real good with proofide first---sam

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by Ray on 12/6/2000 at 1:50:59 PM
B72 saddles are still made. Many bike shops have them in stock for sale. Go buy a new one, it is leather, less trouble, original and will look great.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by mikstonemike@netscape.net on 12/6/2000 at 6:49:50 PM

Yours is really a question for a leathercrafter rather than a question for bicyclist. Luckily, I happen to be both.

First, if your saddle is over 30 years old, it may look fine, but it is DRY! It could snap on you if you sit on it or tighten the saddle with the adjuster bolt.

Oil by itself will not heal the dry old seat. Mix 1/3 neatsfoot oil, 1/3 lard, and 1/3 water in a double boiler on the stoveuntil the mix gets good and hot. Don't forget the water. The leather needs a little water to recondition and be pliable.

You can paint this hot liquid directly on the seat, or you can let it cool (mix it after it cools), apply it to the saddle, and put the saddle in the sun to warm it and let the oils melt and penetrate.

Give this oil/water/lard mixture about a week to wick into the depths of the leather. You will notice a drastic improvement.

Also, the saddle will be cooperative in molding to your fanny shape after applying this mixture.


   Leather Crafter posted by Ray on 12/7/2000 at 6:04:07 AM
Your suggestion sounds interesting. I may try it but your instructions really should emphasize the double boiler because if you mis lard and water and heat it up quickly you will get a result that you will be very unhappy with. Very similar to puting a drop of water in a hot frying pan with oil in it only more violent. I will let you know how this works out.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by sam on 12/7/2000 at 11:33:15 AM
Mike,thinks for the recipe.I knew water was the secret,but did not know how to re-hydrate the old leather correctly.This is one tip I'm writing down.---sam

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by Dennis on 12/7/2000 at 6:06:15 PM
Hey everybody! Thanks so much for all the terrific input. The snow's supposed to fly a bit in Massachusetts and it seems like a great time to start such little programs. Thanks again.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/17/2000 at 9:17:45 AM
Don't get me wrong here because I am saving the bottom rail gut hardware too but why don't you buy a nice new one? I mean if you can afford it then go for it. They're still being made and now it the time to support the company by placing an order. The B-66, B-90/3, B-130, A wide variety is available.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:    Refurbishing a Brooks saddle posted by Dennis on 12/18/2000 at 5:54:01 PM
Thanks for the input, Chris! Actually, showing a little support for the company seems like a pretty good idea. I would like to see how well I could do with the resporation, but I still have my childhood Sears-Puch and the mattress saddle on that bike is gonzo. Time for a newey! Happy Christmas!

AGE / VALUE:   Who needs one? posted by: ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 12/5/2000 at 9:42:19 AM
United States Rubber Co. Giant Chain Tread singletube tire thingy for 24 inch wheel 10.00 plus shipping. Excellent cond. ChristopherRobin@starmail.com

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Who needs one? posted by ChristopherRobin on 12/9/2000 at 9:08:39 AM
I found it a home! This nice lady wants it. Sold

AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by: Albert on 12/5/2000 at 3:19:54 AM
A question for the planetary community: Can anyone suggest a method for measuring frame angles?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Jon on 12/5/2000 at 5:00:09 PM
A small transparent protractor from a drafting supply store will probably be do the job plus or minus .25 degrees if you have a good eye for it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Albert on 12/6/2000 at 8:36:45 AM
Jon, thank you again for replying. However, again I believe your advice to be rather specious. Have you actually tried the technique youdescribed? And really now, the 1/4 degree of accuracy that you said was possible! I don't think that you are speaking from experience. Measuring intersecting round tubes that form an angle whose vertex is difficult to exactly identify is a challenge that cannot be met with as you say, " a small transparent protractor".

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Wings on 12/6/2000 at 12:34:37 PM
I also use Jon's method and it works! Stand back from the tubes and you have two inside lines that form the rays of the angle. If you stay close to the tubes you will not get a good picture (2d) of what you are measuring. Maybe a third hand to hold the protractor would be of help and a fourth hand holding a thin wire over the spot where you are trying to read would help. The larger the plastic protractor that is used, the more accurate your reading will be. Clear plastic protractors can be purchased at art - drawing stores or College Book Stores. Why are you measuring?
Also, another idea would be to go out in the sunshine and place the bike in a perpendicular plane to the rays of the sun so that a shadow would be cast on an angled board that has a piece of paper on it. The bike and the board would have to be fixed so you could then measure the angle of the shadow. You could also draw the angle but you would probably have to use a line of best fit.
You could also lay the bike flat (level) and measure the angle of the shadow cast on a piece of poster board on the ground. The distance between bike and poster board would be less than 6 inches and this would be easy to measure the angle. This should be done at the equater at the vernal or autumnal equinox for best results.....or would it matter? Could try both! This could be expensive. If you lived between certain lattitudes you could do this one or two days a year, but you would have to calculate when.
Another option would be to cut and past two triangles made from 24lb or heavier card stock (thick file cards) to fill the space formed by the head tube angle. Use a paper cutter for good straight lines (redundant) making sure the two trianles form greater angles at the vertex than the total angle of the head tube angle. This would certainly be easy. Again, however, a larger copy of the head tube angle measured with as large as possible protractor would give you the head tube angle.
One coulc also make a simple hinged device to fit in the vertex of the head tube angle. Spread both rays (metal strips -- or wood) that are hinged at the vertex of the head tube angle. Tighten the setting with a winged screw. Remove it from the bike and read your angle! I know I have used something similar to this in the past. It would be similar to using a draftsmans compass (paying attention only to the hinge (vertex) and end points (on the rays) of the compass. Then read the protractor since the compass is a copy of the angle.
Well, good luck!
I still like Jon's method!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Jon on 12/6/2000 at 5:02:06 PM
Yes, I have used it. A transparent protractor purchased at a drafting store would be more accurate than a cheap plastic one you find in the school supplies at WalMart. If you want to check your own accuracy, carefully measure all four main tube angles. If they add up to 360, then you have a pretty good eye. No, it's not perfect, but it should give you a reasonable number to go on.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Jon on 12/6/2000 at 5:16:45 PM
An interesting side note; Consider all the angles in the rake of a front fork that has been run into a high curb at an angle. The trick is to bend both blades back so that one is a mirror image of the other and the bike tracks in a straight line. That was part of my job at one time. No protractor, no fancy gauges. Just two good eyes, a rubber mallet, and a dolly block.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Wings on 12/6/2000 at 11:44:49 PM
Right on Jon!
Excelllent suggestion for a check by adding the four angles!!!! The four angles have four vertices which form a quadrilateral. A quadrilateral is made up of two triangles. Since the sum of each triangle = 180 degrees, the sum of the angles of the quadrilateral is 360 degrees! Go Jon!!!!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Jon on 12/7/2000 at 5:13:17 PM
Thanks Wings, I also thought your shadow tracing technique could be pretty accurate, even with a bare bulb placed at a fair distance perpendicular to the frame.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Grant on 12/8/2000 at 1:25:59 PM
Try the hardware store. They sell a protractor with a hanging pointer. Place it against the tube and the pointer points to the angle.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Measuring frame angles posted by Michael on 12/14/2000 at 7:14:59 AM
I use the bottom bracket as the origin of my frame graph.
Hang a plumb line from the top tube to the bb centre, and mark the position (using tape).
Measure the horizontal distance from the plumb line to the head tube, at the top and bottom. Measure the vertical separation of these two measurements
A bit of standard geometry should give the angles.

AGE / VALUE:   holland murray? posted by: sam on 12/4/2000 at 10:01:03 PM
We have all seen those Union(Holland)bikes,good old style rodester type bikes,but nothing much of interest.Check out ebay#510396116 it has the Union head tub but thats the same frame from a Murray/J.C.Higgins middleweight bike only with an enclosed chaingard.Wonder if Union offered this with the spaceliner springer fork?Well something different---sam

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Superbe touring bag posted by: Bob on 12/4/2000 at 12:38:08 PM
Does anyone know the original equipment touring/saddle bag for a 1972 Raleigh Superbe? Also, where I might obtain one?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Superbe touring bag posted by Bill H on 12/4/2000 at 1:13:05 PM
I believe those bikes came with the small black Vinyl cloth saddlebags that were original equipment on many British bikes. Some of the readers here probably have some. If you don't need an original bag, I recommend a large Carradice bag from Rivendellbicycles.com Bill

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Epicyclic Efficiency -- the question demands a rational answer posted by: Keith on 12/4/2000 at 7:11:14 AM
"The French were right. Hub gears are indeed friction boxes except in direct gear." Frank Berto, The Dancing Chain (Van Der Plas 2000) at 322 (citing 1998 study of epicyclic gear efficiency). Now, before you go off with anecdotal remarks about motorcycles or whatever, and get emotional about it, PLEASE NOTE that Berto is soliciting corrections for the next edition of his book. An articulate, rational, friendly letter to him, by one of you who is an engineer (like him) could go a long way to persuading him to include a different view in the next edition, to the benefit of cycling history and accuracy. RANDY, WHERE ARE YOU?!!!!! Frank Berto -- fberto@ix.netcom.ncom Honestly, if you're going to ramble, rant, and rave, don't do it. Use science, use reason. (I'm not an engineer or I'd take a crack at it).

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Epicyclic Efficiency -- the question demands a rational answer posted by BillG on 12/4/2000 at 9:20:12 AM
Throw me a bone, please. What is "Epicyclic Efficiency".
Are you referring to one of those "oval" chainrings?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Epicyclic Efficiency -- the question demands a rational answer posted by Keith on 12/4/2000 at 10:34:45 AM
I'm not referring to oval chainrings. Epicyclic gears are those found in your Sturmey Archer hubs. Hub gears or internal hub gears would be another way to say it. Tiny planet gears going around a sun. Some say they are less efficient than derailleurs, some disagree. I'd like to see a well thought out response to the study Berto cites. Randy of this cite used to talk about a study that showed the opposite. Berto should include that in his next edition. Berto loves derailleurs -- they are his thing -- so I suppose it was easy for him to uncritically accept the studty he cites. But he strikes me as intellectually honest, so it's worth a shot to see if he'd at least acknowledge a different view. Someone like Randy, an articulate engineer, should contact Berto and tactfully point out the conflicting study.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Epicyclic Efficiency -- the question demands a rational answer posted by Wings on 12/4/2000 at 11:38:06 PM
Since many recumbents use a rear 20 inch wheel the sachs (Shram) 3X7 is used and this topic is debated. Exclude internal friction and consider shifting. What is your experience? My 9 cog rear drive shifts so quick and the range has increased so that I can almost use one chainwheel all the time. When my 3x7 hub is shifting right it is a delight. When it is off there is wasted time in shifting. I also found that Shimmano 3 speed internal hubs are faster and easier shifting than Sturmey hubs. My Sturmey demanded that my legs paused whereas the Shimmano allowed me to make the shift and it would change gears at the first little pause (If I remember right). So, I think there are difference, perhaps, between the different internal gear hubs. Some makes may be more efficient than others. When did Berto write his book? There have been improvements in derailers over the years also! So, what he was comparing then -- we have different hardware to compare now! No, I am not an engineer, just ranting!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Epicyclic Efficiency -- the question demands a rational answer posted by Randy on 12/12/2000 at 10:35:06 PM
Keith, I'll try to get down to Berkeley within the next week and snag that article.

MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by: Robert on 12/4/2000 at 6:36:38 AM
I have read here that it is not recommended to stand up and pedal a S/A 3 speed . Is this because of the greater possibility of causing the hub to fail? Or is it because of the possibility of hub coming out of gear and rider being injured?


   RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Albert on 12/4/2000 at 8:12:10 AM
A worn or improperly adjusted S/A hub will slip out of gear into an "intermediate" gear; that's S/A's way of saying that you suddenly have absolutly no resistance to your cranking preesure. It is this sudden lose of resistance that destabilizes the rider. The most frequent cause of this hazzard is an improperly adjusted hub. Check it often.

   Indeed, Albert! posted by Mike Stone on 12/4/2000 at 5:11:17 PM
Albert tells it like it is. If you haven't had your S/A get out of tune and then give way when you are putting muscle to your pedal, you are in for an experience!

Man, it happened to me and my foot went off the pedal, hit the ground, and then the pedal came behind my calf to assist in tearing my foot off at the ankle.

Albert's right, don't take the S/A adjustment for granted. Check it and check it often. The S/A hub is a beautiful piece of machinery, but deserves some attention.


   RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Jon on 12/6/2000 at 7:53:23 PM
All of the above and then some. When you consider how much pressure is put upon the 2 to 4 pawls (depending on the brand of hub)inside the hub as well as the small surface area that those pawls are forced against, standing on the pedals should be avoided. It's not just your weight, but a multiple of your weight when the crank length and gearing are taken into consideration.

   RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Bill Putnam on 12/7/2000 at 10:46:28 AM
Jobst Brandt made this posting to rec.bicycles.tech 03/31/2000:
> This caught my attention. I've done only a little riding on a SA hub,
> but I was considering building a SA three speed that I've got into a
> folding bike. This isn't a performance bike, but still: What goes
> wrong, specifically?

The drive is transmitted from the sprocket through a four slot cup through which a small cross protrudes to either drive the ring gear by lifting
ratchet pawls (low the gear that does not click when running), performing the same operation with the pawls engaged (direct drive), or fully
extended against the four pins on which the planets ride to drive the planets, hence the reciprocal relationship between low and high to direct drive
down 1/3 up 1/4 on the AW.

The four pins are free fit in the housing and when loaded are slightly non perpendicular to the hub axis due to canting within the clearance. This in
itself has a disengaging bias to the driver cross that pushes on them. However, under load, the axle and mechanism bends slightly so that depth
of engagement of the driver cross to the pins varies during each rotation. These two effects disengage the driver from the pins under high torque
and drop the mechanism into free wheeling forward. The result is that the rider, if standing, dives over the bars, the bicycle following behind him.

This condition is apparent upon examining the driver and pins that both become worn in a slant that enhances disengagement, however,
replacing these parts does not resolve the condition. SA says that the shift cable was mis-adjusted, a specious dodge if ever there was one. With
the cable disconnected, the driver cross is free to make perfect contact with the face of the planet carrier, the best
adjustment possible for top gear, and still disengage under load.

Had the driver been sloped and pins been made with matching flared tapered ends, this would not have been an issue although misadjustment
could still leave one teetering at the edge of freewheeling forward.

Similarly, the springless ratchet of the SW (Silent) hub was sensitive to lubricant viscosity and with anything more than 10W oil could freewheel
forward, the pawls clinging to the ramps by oil viscosity while not engaging. This hub was discontinued after a short run probably because one
could not place blame on user error.

Jobst Brandt
Bill Putnam back again:
Personally, however, I have never had a properly adjusted SA hub
in good condition (either new or rebuilt) slip in top gear.
I have a 34/22 combination on one bike which places a
lot of torque and also bending moment on the hub/axle. I
weigh 155 lbs. I suppose if I had the hub slip on me I would
be less inclined to use it, but for me on a practical level,
despite the imperfections (ok, flaws) in the design, it's
worked for me. I've never had any problems with the pawls-
if you look inside an old freewheel the pawls aren't any
more substantial, so I would be much less concerned about
the pawls than proper adjustment of the indicator chain
and hub. Also, be sure to oil the hub little and often.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Jon on 12/7/2000 at 5:08:51 PM
OK, the technical description was great, but from a just plain common sense standpoint, if you don't want to be singing soprano in the choir, avoid standing on the pedals of an internally geared bike.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Robert on 12/7/2000 at 8:25:28 PM
Thanks for all the input. I will heed the advice given
I really don't care to be hitting any high notes that way!

   RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Bill Putnam on 12/8/2000 at 6:13:18 AM
In response to Jon 12/7/00 5:08:51 PM.
The only concern about the hub slipping is for the
Sturmey AW hub (and those that have the same type
of clutch arrangement such as the AB, FW, AG, and
so on). And this is only in top gear (or for the
five speeds, the top two gears). Otherwise, if the
hub is in good condition and adjusted properly, there
is very little likelihood of slipping, so when you
are pedalling uphill in 1st gear as long as the shift
cable is adjusted properly it should be no problem.
Personally, I've been standing on the pedals, often
sprinting, in top gear with my AW, S5.2, and FG hubs
and have never had it slip, but this is only my
experience, and it differs from Jobst's.
Note as discussed here recently, the Shimano 3 speeds
do not have this concern, I don't know about the
Sachs hubs.

   RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Dale Oswald on 12/8/2000 at 10:48:21 AM
Always replace the planet pinions and the sliding clutch at the same time. Wear or misformation, especially on the sliding clutch, is not always apparent. My last repair job as a full time mechanic was on a new DL1 (1974) that skipped in third. I replaced the planet pinions because they looked misshapen, but not the sliding clutch. It was back in the shop the next week, the shop owner replaced the sliding clutch and all was well.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Standing to pedal Sturmey Archer Question posted by Bill Putnam on 12/8/2000 at 1:33:53 PM
Are you referring to the planet pinions themselves or the planet pinion
pins (the pins having the wearing surface that contacts the
clutch) when replacing the clutch?

MISC:bikes at the opera posted by: Arian on 12/2/2000 at 11:54:40 PM
Yesterday I went to the Lyric Opera in Chicago and saw their production of Jenufa by Czech composer Leos Janacek. As I sat enjoying the music, little did I expect to see six early twentieth century roadsters ride onto the stage halfway through the first act. It was the only time I have regretted not owning a pair of opera glasses. They were the real deal, identical and right on for the 1904 date of the opera. Meanwhile, I was curious about their excellent props team.

   RE:MISC:   bikes at the opera posted by Warren on 12/5/2000 at 5:23:37 PM
Gotta be a first...the opera thread. My wife is a soprano with the Canadian Opera Company in Toronto so I get to my fair share of productions. Thanks for the tip, I'll look for the bikes if the production comes to town.

AGE / VALUE:   He's got a ton of parts to offer, Doesn't he? posted by: ChristopherRobin on 12/2/2000 at 11:18:55 AM
This fellow in Niccosiea, Cypress has a ton of old British Raleigh parts. I keep seeing him offer parts on e-bay.
Item #515832040 Chopper cable
They shiped the chopper and it's parts to Cypress!
He must have found a ton of stuff!!!!