This is an archive of Vintage Bicycle Information.
For current Discussions, go to our main site: OldRoads.com

If you are trying to determine the genealogy of your bicycle by it's features, go to our Vintage Bicycle Price Guide
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, brake types, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your old bicycle.

If you are trying to determine the make and model of your bicycle, go to our Vintage Bicycle Picture Database
which details bicycle features, wheel sizes, etc., as well as showing a price estimate for your vintage bicycle.

Archived: English Roadsters

MISC:   U.S.A. Raleighs posted by: Keith on 4/11/2000 at 6:13:49 AM
There's a Raleigh "Competition" frame on Ebay that I have my eye on. I need a decent steel frame to hang a Campy NR groupo on from a Canondale that ought to be turned back into cans. Anyway, this is a US brand frame, also marked "Technium." No info about age is givin but I'd guess late 80s. Anyway, is this a brazed frame or bonded (I wouldn't want it if it is bonded)? I know I could contact the seller, but I thought you guys would have the definitive, unbiased answer. Also, if any of you has a decent, extra 531 road frame 58-60cm, please let me know.

   RE:MISC:   U.S.A. Raleighs posted by Warren on 4/11/2000 at 5:50:51 PM
Keith...I used to hang in a shop in the late 80's that sold the Technium line...it's junk. Your C-dale is 5 times the bike regardless of our opinions on aluminum frames. Just cuz it's steel doesn't make make it desireable.

   RE:MISC:   U.S.A. Raleighs posted by Keith on 4/12/2000 at 6:26:15 AM
Warren -- thanks for the confirmation. I'm now arranging to buy a 70s Paramount, yet ANOTHER bike I've always wanted, and I'm sure I'll be much happier with it. And really, I have no personal bad experience with Cannondales (some locals call 'em "Crack-n-fails"), other than the vvvvvvery harsh ride.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S/A Sprocket posted by: red on 4/9/2000 at 10:56:39 PM
Is there a sprocket that will fit on a S/A hub which will take a 3/32" chain width? If so, is it easy to find one?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S/A Sprocket posted by Warren on 4/10/2000 at 6:33:44 PM
Hey Red...the question "why" comes to mind when the standard chain will fit both gauges of chainrings...although it's possible that some derailleurs may have a problem with the wider chains. If however you are running a single chainring stay with the standard chain.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S/A Sprocket-WHY? posted by red on 4/10/2000 at 10:28:42 PM
Why? Well... I bought a S/A 7-speed internal and I wanted to put it on the perfect bike. I found an old french 10-speed road frame that was just my size (27"). Rather than take the double sprocket off and try to find a french threaded single sprocket/crank set, I thought I'd leave it on. To do this I thought I could just buy one of those chain tension derailleur type gismoes. When I put the chain on it would jump over ever 7th or 8th tooth on the S/A sprocket. At first I thought this was because I had the wrong chain width. Now I'm begining to think it may be caused by one of many things. Any ideas?

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S/A Sprocket-WHY? posted by Warren on 4/11/2000 at 5:42:20 PM
You didn't say whether you used the original chain or a new chain. Any new rear sprocket or cluster generally demands a new chain because the chain only "wraps" or makes contact with a percentage of teeth on the cogs. For example, a 16 tooth cog may have only 6 to 10 teeth in contact with the chain at any given time. It is likely to skip. A 42 tooth chainring however may have 25 or 30 teeth in contact with the chain. This sprocket/chain relationship is also affected by chain wear...the chain mates with the cog and both wear down together. Chains also stretch...I forget how to estimate when it's due for replacement...check Sheldon Browns website at Harris Cyclery. Anyway...put a new chain on it! I don't what gauge of chain those Nexus/SA internals use. If they are the newer narrow type they may not mate with an old french chainring. Ask Sheldon...he's a french bike afficionado and has forgotten more about bikes than I would ever hope to know.
(now turning long-winded mode off)

MISC:    posted by: Deb on 4/9/2000 at 7:12:00 AM
I'm looking for a woman's rod-brake? bike. I have looked at the Batavus website and like the look of the Locarno and Old Fashion. Anyone in the U.S. import these? What's the current info on the Forever bikes? How about the Indian retros? Anyone with suggestions? It's a great site and I have been pouring over the archives for days. Many thanks. Deb

   RE:MISC:    posted by Keith on 4/10/2000 at 10:31:39 AM
Pashley still makes the "Princess" -- a genuine English rod-brake roadster. I know of at least one bike shop that has imported them recently -- Century Cycles of Cleveland, Ohio 440-356-5705. I'd ask for the owner, Scott Cowan. I'd steer clear of the third-world knockoffs, especially the Forevers, based on my experience and that of others who frequesnt this site.

   RE:MISC:    posted by Keith on 4/10/2000 at 10:40:25 AM
For fun I just went to the Pashley site -- www.pashley.co.uk - and the Princess now has Sturmey Archer hub brakes. If you're really going to ride the bike a lot, these are actually better and safer, albeit not as cool and retro, as rod brakes, which, IMHO really stink in wet weather, no matter how well you adjust them.

   RE:MISC: posted by dave on 4/10/2000 at 10:58:07 AM
I believe Yellow Jersey in Madison imports the Neelam Indian
rod brake bikes, but don't know if they come in a womens frame.

no connection to seller, etc ... their web site is

   RE:RE:MISC: posted by Kevin C. on 4/11/2000 at 9:35:24 AM
I agree with Keith on the matter of rod brakes. They don't provide nearly the stopping power of cable brakes. My recommendation would be to find a Raleigh Sports with a full-coverage chainguard. That way you'd have safety and that old-fashioned English "look."

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   at last I have a tech question!!! posted by: claudia on 4/8/2000 at 9:21:58 PM
The brakes on my beloved Raleigh Sports are "grabbing" and
I feel that this really is negative in terms of the stability
of the bike. Having recently fallen off my Specialized
Globe 7 onto my NOSE!! (helmets are of no use in this situation
and fortunately I seem to have a very flexible nose which did
not break but turned some icky colors for a few days) I would
like to fix the problem Actually it seems to be the rear brake...
where do I start? I have wrench in hand and am waiting for
some suggestions.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   at last I have a tech question!!! posted by Warren on 4/9/2000 at 1:42:18 PM
Hi Claudia...if the centre bolt on the rear brake works itself loose the arms tend to get pulled forward and ultimately inward. At this point they can really jam. I would check to see that the brake arms are straight...if not make a note which need to be bent back. Then disassemble the rear brake. Realign bent components, clean them...use a little grease between moving parts and reassemble. Then comes the fussy part (or not). Tighten the bolt down on the back of the brake using a large screwdriver to hold the centrebolt from the front. Sometimes you must use force to keep the brake arms centered on the rim...adjust the cables...recentre the arms etc. Sand, file or replace brake pads.This is a good time to true those wheels for good braking power. Of course the cable end is probably frayed by this point...should replace that...on a womens frame don't forget to pour liberal amounts of oil down the cable housing to prevent seizing. Now lets do thefront brake. How about a new paint job...? It's amazing how these little jobs expand to fill up every free moment.

Good luck,


   tech question posted by Oscar on 4/9/2000 at 2:46:11 PM
I've ejected from a bike numerous times but I never got my nose. Normally I just re-sprain one or both wrists. If you think the nose thing works, though, I'll give it a try...

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   at last I have a tech question!!! posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/10/2000 at 9:36:14 AM
I am sorry you took a spill, enjoy the spring and summer!

AGE / VALUE:   Dunelt posted by: ChristopherRobin on 4/8/2000 at 7:54:55 AM
I took home a Dunelt in Flamenco red yesterday and it says on the top tube " Ride a wheel on Sheffield steel" I thought that it was "Ride a wheel OF Sheffield steel." Oh well, its a sharp bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Dunelt posted by Keith on 4/10/2000 at 6:43:36 AM
I have thw same bike -- beautiful red. I believe "awheel" is a single word -- a quaint Britishism, like "astride." Ride awheel on Sheffield steel."

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Pre-war ? clubman, Raliegh posted by: Thomas O. on 4/7/2000 at 9:52:54 PM
E-bay item 301363170 describes a 531 framed hideminium barred Clubman.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Pre-war ? clubman, Raliegh posted by Paul R. on 4/12/2000 at 6:16:32 PM
I won the auction! Thanks for the lead...the seller spelled Raleigh incorrectly (Raliegh) so I would have missed it with my normal eBay "Raleigh" search. It appears the bike is a 1951 Raleigh Super Clubman with Reynolds 531 straight gauge frame tubes and stays. I think it was between the Lenton Sports and Record Ace in the lineup. I have a 1946ish and a 1952 export catalog and neither one shows the clubman bikes. I do have an undated price list that lists the Clubman and the Super Clubman and gives a short summary of the specifications. Anyone happen to have any more information on this model? Thanks!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Men's Raleigh DL-1 For Sale on Ebay posted by: Kevin C. on 4/7/2000 at 8:24:13 PM
It's a clean, later one. Check out Ebay 302660251. (not mine).

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Men's Raleigh DL-1 For Sale on Ebay posted by Mark R. on 4/8/2000 at 9:33:53 AM
I just checked it out, and it's a really nice looking bike even if it has a hockey stick.

AGE / VALUE:   Hercules posted by: Pee-Wee on 4/6/2000 at 4:03:27 PM
I just picked up a Hercules bicycle and i want to know, how much is it worth? How old is it?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/6/2000 at 5:33:30 PM
The Hercules bicycles were made by Raleigh unless this is an older bike. They had a Hercules 3 speed hub that was stamped B TYPE FOUR or some such business. It is really a Sturmey-Archer A.W. 3 speed hub with Hercules Cycle and Motor stamped on it. Unfortunitly, they did not put the date on the rear hub like Sturmey-Archer did with the genuine hubs that say Sturmey-Archer on them. So this eliminates the method we use of determining a date the hub and the bike were made. After some point, the Hercules bicycles hubs left the factory with rear hubs that said "Sturmey-Archer" on them. This is called "badge engineering" and Raleigh stoped doing this at some point. It is a bit hard to offer an opinion on value without really hearing about the color, condition, detailed description about the bike, A picture would be helpful. If this is an older Hercules made before Raleigh bought the company out then it is worth more, also if this is a rod brake type cycle then it is also worth more than a cable brake bike. Hercules made a variety of models and colors, cable and rod brake, sports and roadster type bikes. They had lightweight touring bikes made from Reynolds 531 Tubing in marvelous colors. The chainwheels had diffrent patterns too. They had an "H" in them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules posted by Matthew on 4/8/2000 at 1:26:30 AM
Check the head badge. Round brass - Pre.WW2, Cast Aluminium 'H' post 1946, water slide decal (transfer) 60's onwards. The hub gears are some what of a mystery but I bow to the knowledge of others. There are insufficient records to detail whether Hercules built them under licence or for how long although SA records cover the period that they made hubs for Herc. A 1950's cycle maintenance book which I have gives a whole set of separate instructions for looking after Herc.hubs rather than SA hubs. I hope this helps and you must enjoy a wonderful piece of our engineering.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hercules posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/8/2000 at 7:53:46 AM
I have never seen a decal in place of the aluminium badge on a post 1946 Hercules but I am not doubting you. All the Hercules I ever see are the alloy badge H ones. The Hercules hubs had threaded drivers that took threaded cogs. Sheldon covers this in his web page.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules 1950 Super club posted by: hjfl on 4/6/2000 at 11:28:45 AM
Hello bicycle fans
I bought a mens Hercules at a local auction. It is mostly original and in good condition . I have a Hercules catalog with a cover letter dated 1949. My bike appears to be the same as the Kestral Super Club model . This appears to be their best bike at that time. Claimed weight of 23 3/4 pounds for the single speed , mine has a Hercules 3 speed hub. Reynolds 531 main tubes and chainstays. It is a nice riding bike. Unfortunatly the bars and pedals appear to have been changed very earlly in its life,so I am looking for pedals and bars. My catalog describes the pedals as ultra light racing pattern and the bars as Reynolds light alloy Baily pattern with shockstop grips. I am also looking for fender braces and attaching hardware for this bike . thanks hjfl

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules 1950 Super club posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/6/2000 at 5:39:28 PM
I have the same catalog or one very similar. I was thinking about this the other day and that somewhere out there someone has one exactly as in the art catalog! I wish I had braces and pedals and those wonderful alloy Baily bars myself. They will pop up on E-bay so keep looking. How is the overall condition and what color? Good find, old boy!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules 1950 Super club posted by hjfl on 4/6/2000 at 5:50:17 PM
Mine is what the catalog calls flamboyant ruby although somewhat faded. with Hercules club finish ,fully chromed front fork with seat and chainstay chromium plated ends. thanks for your reply.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules 1950 Super club posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 4/12/2000 at 3:33:24 PM
The catalog had this notation I thought was interesting. It says that "The colors shown in this art catalog matches the exact color of the bike as acurately as possible in print." Neat

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Greg on 4/5/2000 at 2:33:54 PM
I picked up a Raleigh, Rudge Whitworth from a guy a couple of years back. I am trying to determine it's manufacturing date and value. I could not find the serial number on the chart, if in fact, the number scribed into the seat post clamp is a factory number. I have a Sturmey-Archer front Dynohub with a three (3) digit number on the inside. (Brampton rear hub) Anybody have any suggetsions. Thanks alot.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/6/2000 at 7:31:22 AM
Please describe this cycle. Does it have 26 inch or 28 inch wheels? cable or rod brakes? what color is this? does it have a leather seat on it? how is the condition of the seat? does this have a locking fork? any extra items?( such as a bell or a rear rack or any generator type light set?) How are the decals? any dents or scrapes? how is the chrome?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by greg on 4/6/2000 at 5:15:05 PM
Black. 26 inch wheels. Cable brakes. Leather Brookes saddle. Worn. Small tear on side. Emblems and writing intact. Generator light set. Front and rear - working. Decals are worn but readable. A few dents on the fenders and chain guard. Chrome is in fair condition. Basically, it is in great working condition. I have been riding it, in fact. A litle bit of love could do the trick. I received an email which informed me, based upon the #853 on the front Sturmey-Archer Dynohub, that the bike could date 1953.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Matthew on 4/8/2000 at 1:40:55 AM
Greg, if it is a Rudge Whitworth, and I'm sure it is then it isn't a Raleigh. The trade mark for Rudge & Rudge Whitworth is a hand, found on the head badge and the chainwheel. I expect that the company was sucked into the dreadful TI vortex at some point but not all British cycle manufacturers went that way. The Rudge sales slogan was "Britains Best Bicycle" and the quality of these machines is definitely a cut above the usual Raleigh standard. SORRY ALL DL-1 OWNERS!! Practical experience tells me this is so, my greatest regret cycle-wise is selling a 1930's ladies loop frame R.W. Your cycle may be fitted with a later dyno-hub. I'm sorry I can't help with frame dating, once again membership of the Veteran Cycle Club, which has memebers world wide, will get you more info. try v-cc.org.uk. Keep riding & keep left, no sorry keep right. We say keep left in the UK!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Greg on 4/8/2000 at 6:34:18 AM
Matthew, thanks for the info, however, there is a Raleigh Industries decal on the vertical tube below the seat.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/8/2000 at 8:08:31 AM
Keep left, keep right? Are you trying to get me to drive on the wrong side of the road? I am sorry you parted with your bike, Find another one and ride again.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S-A 5-speed hubs posted by: Howard Abts on 4/5/2000 at 10:19:54 AM
Anybody know all I want to know about Sturmey-Archer 5-speed hubs?
In 1974, going to seminary in Boston, I got a job in a bike shop there, and, for the first time ever, saw chain-case Raleighs being ridden around. Having lost more than one pair of pants to a chain-wheel, I fell in love with the idea. When a used one became available in the shop, I bought it.
I wasn't much interested in pristine authenticity, so I installed a 5-speed hub, also used, when I noticed how heavy the thing was. That hub served me very well until about 1995, when the axle broke. No used ones being available back in the wilds of Ohio, I got a new one through The Bike Route in Toledo (Are testimonials allowed here?), easily the best shop I've ever encountered. The new one lasted about a year before its axle broke. Raleigh replaced it at no cost to me. The replacement lasted less than a year: broken axle again.
I'm within ten pounds of what I weighed then, and I'm nothing like as strong as I was. The shop checked the drop-outs, and found them parallel to each other.
The bike works with a pulled-out-of-a-neighbor's-trash 3-speed on it, but I do miss the bottom gear.
Any suggestions? Am I missing something really obvious?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S-A 5-speed hubs posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/6/2000 at 5:44:18 PM
Check out the Sturmey-Archer web site they make a five speed today that your shop can order from them. I have never heard much of breaking hub axles like you mention but it does happen I suppose.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S-A 5-speed hubs posted by Paul MN on 4/6/2000 at 11:10:08 PM
Problems with five-speed SA hubs are not unusual, but I cannot recall broken axles. Are they all breaking at the same place? First thing that comes to me is the outer nuts are too tight. The nut or strips or axle thread crumbles before axles break in my experience. Is this an S5S hub?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S-A 5-speed hubs posted by Howard on 4/7/2000 at 11:02:28 AM
Thanks, ChristopherRobin and Paul MN, for your help!
I'm sure my shop would be happy to order another one for me, but I'm not sure I want another, unless I can know that it'll be good for a few years. The used one I put on in '74 gave several years of service, from the look of it, before I got it, and then gave me another 20 years, probably between 20,000 and 25,000 miles. The new ones each gave less than a year. Not good enough, at $90 a pop.
The first, the old one, and the first new one both broke at the end of the slot on the cog end of the axle. The first new one got exchanged for the second new one, and the second new one I pitched, since storage space was very tight- especially storage space for unusable parts- and we were about to move anyway. I don't recall what it said on the hub shell, but the box it came in said "5 Star."
Over-tightening is certainly not impossible, but it strikes me as unlikely. I had the old one off and back on at least half a dozen times for new tires, and, although I've never laid a torque wrench on anything on a bike, I've been removing and installing 3-speeds for decades, with never a problem. If that were it, I think I'd've broken a 3-speed, or the first 5-speed would've broken shortly after a tire change. And none of the threads were damaged.
Unrelated to the hub: Frame number is 2931, with "AL" underneath the numerals. I'm not sure from the chart: would that be 1956?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   S-A 5-speed hubs posted by Howard on 4/8/2000 at 11:08:20 AM
Correction: The number is 12931. The first "1" is real faint. Sorry.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Stebler posted by: Matt on 4/5/2000 at 6:37:08 AM
Has anyone heard of an English bike co./ model called Stebler? I just got on- looks to about 40-50 years old. and i'd like to find out more about it. thanks. Matt

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Stebler posted by jr on 4/6/2000 at 12:19:51 PM
There's a German company called Stebler that imported bikes for Sears and others in the 50s.

   I think that's Stelber posted by Morgan on 4/7/2000 at 11:46:00 AM
But I've been wrong before.

MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by: phil on 4/4/2000 at 11:40:27 AM
Attn: Vin at VVVintage:

Are you seriously considering bringing in the container of Indian Raleighs? What would your price have to be to make it worthwhile? Why don't you take a straw poll here and see what the interest is?

Depending upon price, yes, I'll buy one.

   RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by Vin - VVVintage Vintage Bicycles on 4/4/2000 at 1:00:07 PM
Yes, we have been considering it for a while and are in contact with an Indian company. (we are not serious about the velvet-lined wooden box and the $8k price)

The 3 biggest problems right now are the freight cost, the storage and the initial cash outlay.


   RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by Norman F. Birnberg on 4/4/2000 at 10:10:55 PM
I can imagine the import costs, etc. on these Indian Roadsters is considerable and one would wonder if people would buy enough of them to pay for the investment.

Wouldn't the easier route be to find an American framebuilder and build these with good quality chrome-moly steel to order? I'm sure an American made roadster/sports
bicyle would fetch a good price and the profit margin could
be added to by installing the choice of internal gears and
brakes and brooks saddle at the customer's request for a customizable bicycle that's unique to the individual. And a reasonable number of these could be manufactured for far less than $8K, or am I wrong?

   RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by Warren on 4/5/2000 at 6:52:28 AM
If indigenous frame manufacturers were able to make good quality frames in moderate sized production runs then its unlikely that the industry would have fled the continent en masse in the first place. Good frames are extremely hard to make at a good price point...let alone rod brake systems, enclosed chain guards etc. Sure you could use shimano internal geared hubs with roller brakes...but it wouldn't be a real roadster would it? If you go to Holland or Denmark and use converted currency to buy one of their high quality roadsters you can pay close to a thousand dollars (canadian) for a good model. I don't know that the general public can be enticed into buying these retro bikes for that kind of coin...nor am I confident that the roadster group would pay that either. They enjoy the thrill of the hunt and restoration of vintage stock. Enough speculation...How much would you guys spend for a new rod brake roadster? (US dollars) Maybe this will help Vin decide whether to import or not.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by phil on 4/5/2000 at 12:27:22 PM
I think you'd have to keep it under $300(US). Around $250 plus shipping and it would be a hot seller. But what do I know?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:Indian Raleigh posted by dewane on 4/6/2000 at 6:53:28 AM
That's exactly what I would pay also.

   RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by Wes K on 4/7/2000 at 9:58:43 PM
I read the post below. A couple hundred bicycles is quite a few.
I'd get on the phone or whatever and contact a bunch of bike shops and see how many would buy 2-4
to sell in their shops. Can you not get them to send over a sample bike or two?

   RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by Keith on 4/10/2000 at 10:23:24 AM
I would also commit to buy such a bike but ONLY IF it was a real Raleigh-licensed product, and not just a Third-World knock-off (I already have one of those -- Chinese Forever -- and I definately would not pay $250-300 for one). In the past I read stories about the Nottingham tooling for the DL-1 being shipped overseas and set up in Africa, India, or somewhere like that. Is this legend true? Bill H. who frequensts this site actually purchased two African Raleighs -- I've seen the pics -- and I'd be interested in hearing his review of the machines.

   RE:MISC:   Indian Raleigh posted by Debra on 4/12/2000 at 6:49:19 AM
Any decisions about the Indian Ralieghs? Would you be importing any women's models?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information about my Humbers and Fongers posted by: Bambang on 4/3/2000 at 11:13:23 PM
Hi Iam from Indonesia. Through this forum I need all information about my 2 old bike. First, gentleman bike Humbers with frame number FA...(not clear). It has double fork, 3 speed and steerlock. I guess its FA Special. The second one is Dutch gentleman bike, Fongers, with frame number AQ or AS...(not clear). It has no brake. If we wanna stop must rotate back the pedal. In my place it use brake system call TORPEDO gears. So ladies and gentleman, would you help me identificate my bike and where I can find information and literature about my bike especially about Fongers

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information about my Humbers and Fongers posted by phil on 4/4/2000 at 6:24:24 AM
I know nothing of your Dutch bike, the Fongers. However the first step in discovering information about the Humber is to examine the Sturmey Archer rear hub for the date codes (if any). The two digit number is the year of manufacture.
Is it a rod brake model with 28" wheels?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information about my Humbers and Fongers posted by sam on 4/4/2000 at 10:08:48 AM
If the fongers bike uses a torpedo rear hub with a coster brake, the rear hub was most likely a SACH'S of Germany.the hub should have a brake arm ,with the word torpedo and an eagle stamped on it,does it also say 3-gang?(3speed)the web site for SACH's is www.sram.com it is now a U.S.company

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Information about my Humbers and Fongers posted by sam on 4/4/2000 at 10:20:53 AM
If the fongers bike uses a torpedo rear hub with a coster brake, the rear hub was most likely a SACH'S of Germany.the hub should have a brake arm ,with the word torpedo and an eagle stamped on it,does it also say 3-gang?(3speed)the web site for SACH's is www.sram.com it is now a U.S.company

MISC:   New Product posted by: Keith on 4/3/2000 at 12:41:09 PM
We got a trade flyer at the shop three days ago saying that Campagnolo was planning to introduce its new roadster groupo, the "Milano" by early summer. The bladed aero rod brake linkages, kickstand, and other components will be all titanium, and the enclosed chaincase will be carbon fiber. The groupo includes ti spindle rubber block peddles, and a special "Campagnolo approved" Sachs 12 speed internal hub also with a Campy manufactured ti axle. The groupo will appear on a joint-venture bicycle -- the Milano 2000 -- with ornate chrome luggs, cutouts, and pantographed Columbus steel frame by a yet undisclosed Italian frame maker (rumors abound), with traditional slack roadster lines and frame angles. The bicycle's MSRP will be just over $16,000, and will be available only in a limited edition signed by the frame maker. 100 extra groupos will be available seperately for $9,500 each, in fitted, velvet-lined wooden cases, with numbered certificates. Sorry, but I was away from my computer on April 1.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Mark R. on 4/3/2000 at 1:24:28 PM
They can keep them!

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by red on 4/4/2000 at 1:12:25 AM
$9500-16,000?!?! Something tells me the money-dropping crowd won't go for it (not to mention the people here who realize how ridiculous that is).

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Paul MN on 4/4/2000 at 2:51:37 AM
Its obvious to me whats going on here, our favorite Italians have seen the light. After all the pleading on this website and who knows where else for Raleigh to bring back the rod brake, Campy has seized the opportunity and should be supported for taking this marketing risk. Just think how much digital watches and hand calculaters cost when they first came out. For the same cost as a mid priced Harley Davidson we can now get this cutting edge machine that will take us from A to B silently, while improving our cardiovascular system and it will only use about a quart of petrolium products every 10,000 mi.

   RE:RE:MISC:   New Product posted by VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 4/4/2000 at 6:30:52 AM
We've been looking into importing the Indian Raleigh roadsters, but at a minimum lot of one container (several hundred bicycles), we're afraid of making the investment.

Although if we put a velvet-lined wooden box around them and get $8k each, maybe we should do it!

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Chris P. on 4/4/2000 at 8:57:55 AM
Our store got the same material. I heard the frame maker was going to be Cinelli. Figures. 28 x 1 and 1/4 Michlen Axial Pro tires, rated at 95 psi, will be standard issue.

   RE:RE:MISC:   New Product posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/4/2000 at 10:58:59 AM
Is Bianchi in on this one? I thought there was a Bianchi Milano rod brake roadster. This sounds interesting, things are coming together,at last. This project has taken years and a lot of earlier plans and preperations have fallen by the wayside up until now. I wish them every sucess. A high pressure modern tire, carbon fibre enclosed case that will not rattle, a twelve speed transmission, this is the Super D.L.1. tourist I have been waiting for. What other company but Capagnolo and/ or Bianchi could pull this off today? Cool!!

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Mark R. on 4/4/2000 at 1:51:26 PM
Come on! It's a stupid idea! The whole idea of these type of "english" style roadster is the relative economy of using one( work great, last forever, relatively inexpensive), and their "quaint"-ness. Put a bunch of asinine way overly expensive yuppie BS parts on them and sell them for $9000!!! What the hell is that? Now, make a GOOD replica of a Raleigh DL-1 or similar bike, and I mean GOOD, like a perfect replica, and sell it for $300-500, now THAT"s what I'm talkin' about! I honestly hope they get stuck with these monstrosities. Leave it to the rich to destroy a really good idea in the quest for instant wealth.

   RE:RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Kevin C on 4/4/2000 at 3:51:28 PM
For $300-$500, you can find plenty of REAL DL-1s. Why buy some copy when you can have the real thing?

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Mark R. on 4/4/2000 at 4:32:57 PM
True, but that's not what I meant. Look, you can go down to any Toys r us, and for a lousy $350 they have a very nice mt. bike:21 speeds, suspention front and back, nicely made aluminium frame, nice allow components, in short a real deal. Yeah it's not as good as a $2000 yup-mobile, but a very good inexpensive bike. You could make a DL-1 clone with that same sort of technology: alloy 28in. rims, alloy 4 or 7 speed hub, chromoly frame, stainless steel brake rods and fittings, yata yata yata as they say, for far less then THOUSANDS of dollars, FAR less, and you'd be selling a really fine bike. Really that's all I meant. No body needs, or should want a bleeding $9000 roadster. That's absurd. Look at the Batavus roadsters at their site on the web, especially the traditional model, that's what WE all want isn't it? I know I'm raving, but they've ruined road riding with all the expensive BS that's been foisted on everyone($300 handlebars!$700 front wheels!) why should they ruin what could be a world wide re-birth of roadsters before it even has a chance to begin?

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Mark R. the raver! on 4/4/2000 at 4:39:19 PM
Look at it this way: if the Forever roadsters from China, or even the Indian roadsters were made as well as the Raleighs were, with 24in. frames, three speeds, chromoly frames, and sell for about $350 wouldn't every one of us buy one? THAT'S what kind of roadster the world needs.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by STINKY on 4/5/2000 at 9:31:34 AM
Sure you can buy a $350 mountain bike at Price Club but not only are they unltimately throw-away bikes at that price but who are you going to deal with if your frame cracks. I shop at an older bike store where the guy whose been working on bikes for thirty years stands behind his bikes that he sells, new or used. I went to another shop when the Bianci Milano's first hit, plunked down four hundred bucks and got a Nexus hub that sounded like marbles in a tin can. I took it back, looking for help from the owner and he just laughed and said he didn't know how to work on the Nexus hubs either. Real funny. For $9000 is Bianci going send you a mechanic along with that bike, because Bif down at the mall isn't going to know squat about how to adjust or replace those new components. Give me an old roadster with not much money in it and I can learn to repair it. If I screw it up, you guys can buy the parts.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Mark R. on 4/5/2000 at 8:08:07 PM
WOW stupid me in my ire some how failed to notice the price for the bike will actually be $16,000. So just more than double my indignation, and we'll call it even. I still don't see how something like this is even worth doing. It's like that Delorean guy that designed the GTO way back when, he was such a really great designer that he designed the"Delorean" which was a piece of junk that cost tens of thousands of dollars, and was really a big joke. He should have designed a good everymans car to sell for $6000, and sold millions of them you know, then he would have been remembered as a giant. That would have been a far greater accomplishment. It's the same here. Build a bike that super rich cocaine lords will buy, sell maybe two or three hundred tops, and go to bed each night counting your money, all the while totally ignoring the potential a really well made inexpensive roadster would have. But alas I rave again! Good night.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Michael on 4/6/2000 at 4:41:53 AM
Talking about 21Century roadsters, have you seen any of Mike Burrows utility bike protoypes. The guy who designed the Lotus bike is now working for Giant, designing stuff like TCRs. His pet project is a clean, practical, easy to use bike using all the best of modern technology.

I saw one magazine review of his prototype:
The composite monocoque frame has a single rear stay formed as an enclosed chaincase with an oil-bath (just like the old Sunbeam roadster), containing (when its perfected) a derailleur mechanism. Single stays front and rear mean you can repair punctures without removing the wheel.

This really is not a spoof.

   RE:RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Kevin C. on 4/6/2000 at 6:10:37 AM
That's human nature. Not everyone in the world wants a cheap, practical Model T Ford, a Volkswagen Beetle or a 1,500 square-foot house. Materialistic people always find a way to lord it over everybody else. It applies to bicycles, too.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Morgan on 4/6/2000 at 7:56:22 AM
Am I the only one suspicious that this "new product" was announced on April 1?
Would I take if someone gave it to me? You betcha!

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Mark R. on 4/6/2000 at 1:12:56 PM
Oh brother are we gullable! Of course it was a stupid April fools trick! Whew! Had me going too! Hahahahahahahaha

   RE:RE:MISC:   New Product posted by red on 4/6/2000 at 10:36:22 PM
Zany! I was wondering why Sheldon Brown was keeping so quiet about this. Crazy humor, thats what it is.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   New Product posted by ChristopherRobin on 4/7/2000 at 11:32:13 AM
The price mentioned was way too high, we will see.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Sidney Sideline on 4/8/2000 at 1:53:37 AM
Hoorah for Keith. This humour made it across the atlantic in tact. Laugh? I nearly needed a paramedic!! The very best and so many fell for it. Now lets all laugh together and be a little more cautious next time. Well done Keith.

   RE:MISC:   New Product posted by Keith on 4/10/2000 at 6:40:23 AM
I confess. I thought "aero" ti brake linkage was so over the top that it was a dead give away. Glad you all had some fun with it!