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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Age for my Dunelt posted by: Chad on 7/9/2000 at 6:21:16 PM
Hi. I received a Dunelt three speed and would like to know how old it is. I can't really see the serial number on it, yet it has two University stickers of the years 1969 and 1970. It has a bit of scratches and dings, yet adds to the character of it. Anyone have an idea of when Dunelt made bicycles?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Age for my Dunelt posted by Keith on 7/10/2000 at 9:28:18 AM
Dunelt was yet another Raleigh brand. I have no idea whether Dunelt had a pre-Raleigh history, like Hercules. It is a mid-level bike, meaning that it was ranked beneath the top-end Sports and Superbe models, mainly becuase it lacked certain deluxe equipment such as Brooks leather saddle and Raleigh-pattern rims. You can determine the date from the rear hub -- the month and year are stamped on it. Go to Sheldon Brown's (www.sheldonbrown.com) Harris Cyclery site under Old Bicycles and see the English 3-speed and Raleigh articles. The 1970 ediion of Sloane's Complete Book of Bicycling says Dunelts were widely available through mail order companies. The book has a picture of a "bike-in" at which several Dunelts were parked.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Age for my Dunelt posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/12/2000 at 10:28:51 AM
If this customer does not come in and pick up his pair of bikes, I am going to be adding two more to the fleet. These are gathering dust in the shop. It is not a good idea to leave a bike for repair and then go on walkabout for a year and a half.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Age for my Dunelt posted by Keith on 7/12/2000 at 12:21:44 PM
I have my eye on a pre-Raleigh Hercules of that ilk.

AGE / VALUE:   Rear Dyno-hub posted by: Warre on 7/9/2000 at 4:46:57 PM
I bought another $7 special at the Goodwill. It's a CCM Continental...I've never seen one like it before, (I'm from Canada and have seen most of them) and I wouldn't normally have touched it cuz the frame is a mess, bent seatstay, mudguards are missing...BUT it has a '64 AG dyno rear hub. As it happens I have an extra light set albeit in rough shape. However it came off of a Superbe with the front wheel dyno. Has anyone ever rewired one of these dyno lights...are they as fussy as they look or can an electrical clown like myself, armed with only rudimentary soldering skills manage this one. With the appropriate mudguards I think this bike would look very cool.

Another oddity, the bike came with two SA shifters, a trigger model hooked up and a twist grip model without cable. I've never installed one of these units. Do they use the same cable as the standard triggers and does anyone like them? Sheldon has posted that they work poorly but it definitely adds to that "cool" factor and after all it is a Sturmey!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rear Dyno-hub posted by Fred on 7/10/2000 at 12:25:50 PM
Warren: I think its a good chance that the bike came equipped with a twist grip shifter and the thumb shifter was added later. I have ridden a few bikes with the twist shifter and do not care for them at all. They work but the grip seems small and short for the average man's hand. I salvaged a few before I determined my preference. I think the cable is the same for both shifters.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   just wanted any info on my bike! posted by: Bgurltryal on 7/9/2000 at 1:31:47 PM
Ok...my bike has a metal emblem on it which reads 'Herculese Bermingham England' and it also has decals saying AMF. I would reaaalllyy like to restore it to it's original state but, this being my first restoration, am extremely appresensive about making any mistakes. Any help would be much appreciated!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   just wanted any info on my bike! posted by Warren on 7/9/2000 at 4:44:50 PM
Go the the Oldroads discussion link at the top of the page and save a copy of restoration tips...this is a great start. You can also search the archives for just about any detail or you can just repost your specific questions to this page.

If I had one piece of advice I would say don't be afraid to try anything yourself. Buy good quality tools for the dissasembly and try not to "farm" out expensive jobs. You'll likely end up with good experience, a nice looking rideable bike or if worst comes to worst a whole bunch of useful parts for the next project. Save everything, for a while! You will need them.

   Go for it! posted by Oscar on 7/9/2000 at 6:35:17 PM
Start any restoration by cleaning the bike. This is just psychological, but when you see how good it looks outside, you will put more into the inside. Just jump into it, and ask any tech questions here. Some of the folks who post here are mechanical geniuses who know these English bikes backwards and forwards. Good luck.

AGE / VALUE:   robin hood male 3 speed posted by: alex on 7/8/2000 at 10:51:56 PM
found a men's english 3 speed today and would like to know a bit more about it... the model name is "Robin Hood" with a logo of robin hood, under the figure "Nottingham England" on the front badge, the name robin hood on the chain guard and on the center post. Robin hood decals on the rear fender and center post. I can't seem to find a mfg name. Rear hub is marked "Sturmey Archer". Paint is a bit time worn, with some minor rust but still a beauty. Any input would be welcome..... Thanx, alex

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   robin hood male 3 speed posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/9/2000 at 9:25:36 AM
Raleigh Industries of Nottingham, England made this bike. Robin Hood was one of many names they used to represent the line of B-grade bikes. The bike uses Raleigh's own 26 T.P.I.(threading) headset and bottom bracket.It's great that it is a mens model instead because it's worth a bit more. Check out E-bay to see what these are selling for. I would keep and enjoy it.They are fun to ride and a great city bike. Tires are 26 X 1 3/8 and you should be able to find these at any bike shop. You can get gear and shift cables at a local shop too.or post a note here. This is a basic English 3 speed bike. One of my favorite brands.

AGE / VALUE:   Tiger cycles posted by: Mike on 7/8/2000 at 5:49:37 AM
I have a touring bike . It says , Tiger Cycles on the chainguard can anyone tell me about this brand ?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   What is a "Wulfruna"? posted by: Peter Hällström on 7/8/2000 at 5:19:35 AM
I just found this discussion area so I thought I better ask my question here aswell.
Can anybody help me with further information regarding a Wulfruna ladies roadster that I have?
Its made in Wolverhampton, England and the Wulfruna Cycle Works was established 1896 by Mr. John Barratt and thats all I know.
The bicycle have 26" Dunlop rims and a Surmey Archer AG Dynohub made in May 1957, frame number L7215 under the saddle, rod brakes, enclosed chain and is (re?)painted all black. It looks basicly like a very usual british ladies roadster. The badge have a globe in top and under this is a angry wolfhead resting in a big "W" and under the "W" is a strip with "Wulfruna" and under that it says "Wolverhampton" but there are no decals left on the bike.
Can you help me? Regards Peter from Sweden

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   What is a posted by Peter Hällström on 7/8/2000 at 8:01:36 AM
I have got it all wrong, the factory was not established in 1896 the correct year would be about 1877 according to an old booklet that I recived a textfile copy of from a History society in Wolverhampton.
Sorry for not checking my sources thoroughly. / Peter

AGE / VALUE:   Looking really fine!! posted by: ChristopherRobin on 7/7/2000 at 10:35:45 AM
After being stripped and repainted in black laquer my Raleigh D.L.1. looks awesome but when I put this new(old) badge on it to see what it looks like I was really pleased. The badge is silver with black and red and on a black bike it looks really good! I was surprised. With the red and gold pinstripes, the gleaming chrome plate on the rims, and bars, the bell, the headset cups, the bracket, flat glass Sturmey-Archer light,N.O.S. 12 volt brass Dynohub, Ashby rear rack that took so many hours to re-do. Leather Brooks pannier boxes attached to the rack that nearly drove me over the edge. (like having to plead with the devil)Lucas cyclometer in 28. All the trials and tribulations it is almost over. My painter had an appendicitis attack in the middle of the job,funding was difficult as I'm into too many projects. finding, begging to be able to buy that Brooks accesory, travel, waiting,trading,sending back shoddy work and waiting to see if it was re-done properly, waiting again to get the pieces back together, finding rivits for the badge. Did I want my name on the down tube in gold or not? Removing every dent. Adventure in leather goods (mudflap) This should be enamel paint and next time one will be, but this looks really spectacular!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Looking really fine!! posted by Keith on 7/7/2000 at 11:08:34 AM
Your enthusiasm and dedication are awesome. Bravisimo!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Looking really fine!! posted by sam on 7/7/2000 at 2:21:32 PM
and when & where can we expect to see pictures?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Looking really fine!! posted by Kevin on 7/7/2000 at 9:40:07 PM
Sounds gorgeous. We're all salivating profusely.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Looking really fine!! posted by Wings on 7/7/2000 at 11:05:18 PM
Congratulations! The look of newness on something old is thrilling to see. There has to be a great sense of accomplishment in such a time consuming task!

Is this the bike we had the lengthy paint discussion on months ago? You commented that you used lacquer and the next time it will be enamel. What type and/or brand of lacquer was used? It has to look great! Why would you use enamel? This would be of help as I will be painting here in about a month. Anything else you could share about this project would be great! Do you find yourself standing and looking at the bike often?
I know I certainly would! Well done Christopher!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Looking really fine!! posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/8/2000 at 9:45:03 AM
The pictures will be on the way. I don't know the brand of laquer used, I will have to ask. Im told enamel is what they used when the bike was made. However a friend had his Schwinn done up in black enamel and I have compared the two and mine looks better. I wanted a certain look, a deep oil-black, like Ford used on the Model T. They had a strange way of applying it. I really did not get to mind meld with this guy like I wanted to. He works in an auto shop but is really good with bikes. I asked for baked black laquer and I believe this is what I got. Oh yes, I find myself entranced with this one, more than usual. I go into the garage and this hand grabs me.The next thing I know I'm up on the bike and halfway down the street.I can hear the family yelling after me "What are ya doing? Were all going out to eat dinner! Get back here!! I have had bad luck getting things chrome plated. It seems no one wants to do the proper amount of prep work and polishing and I have had chrome peel off of rims after it has been re-built with stainless spokes. Then I have to go back there and show them and wrestle to get it re-done and then re-building the wheel and getting them to pay for that. I remember a old boss of mine told the customer " Take your tire, and yourself and get out of here. He rolled the tire out the door into the street and the guy went running after it. This has never happened to me but I really hate going back to get someone to re-do something they know was not done right. Once they get your money it's. Bye-bye baby.

   Stay away from shops like this posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/8/2000 at 9:57:14 AM
I had another auto shop fix a deck lid. They painted over the white plastic reverse light lenses that were up in the rear trunk area!! This really blew me away. I have yet to see something more stupid, more lazy or ignorant but I know it won't be long.

   RE:Stay away from shops like this posted by Wings on 7/8/2000 at 10:54:01 PM
You really have been through it!
It sounds like you are a perfectionist. The greater the difficulties = the more appreciation there may be of the final product. Waiting to see those pictures. I am glad to hear the lacquer looked better -- I don't think you can top it!

AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by: Frank on 7/7/2000 at 6:55:34 AM
Hi all.
I've recently aquired what seems to be a Gitane Tour de France replica. It's blue and is exactly like Greg Lemond's classic racer. How old is this bike? I'm thinking early 80's/late 70's but Greg Lemond didn't win TDF in this period did he? Apart from a weak derailler spring (simplex resin type) that won't give me 10th gear the bike rides well and goes like stink. Everything else works and looks fine, but the top bar is somewhat scuffed. Is this bike worth putting any money into? Can anyone tell me what the kind of parts it came with originally? Now it has Mafac Racer brakes, Silstar drilled chainring and crank, shimano FE front derailer, black plastic Simplex rear and Mavic alu rims (700?) and a Cobra saddle. I'd like to know more about this bike and any piece of info would help me a great deal.
And oh yeah, If the bike turns out to be older than I (76 model) am I a retrogrouch by riding it?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by Keith on 7/7/2000 at 10:02:32 AM
The Gitane Tour de France was not a replica, but Gitane's answer to the Peugeot PX-10. Like the PX-10, the TDF frame is DB Reynolds 531. From the components you describe I'd guess 70s (Mafac & Simplex delrin), not 80s (the front Shimano is not original and I wonder if it originally had Stronglight cranks). Some people seem pretty hot after PX-10s, and they do have some racing pedigree from the 60s. IMHO, a 70s Tour de France is a high-end but second-tier bike, overshadowed by the Campagnolo-equiped models of the same period. As I recall, in the early 70s a PX-10 or TDF would go for about $200-$225 new, while all-Campy bikes started at $300-$350. They filled a marketing niche of high-performance for less bucks. I think it's a keeper and a rider, but not a museum piece. I wouldn't sink huge sums of money into it (i.e.,full restoration), but it would certainly be worth replacing parts that don't work and touching up.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by Keith on 7/7/2000 at 10:13:49 AM
P.S. This is a vintage lightweight, and YES it makes you a retro grouch! Go see http://www.cyclesdeoro.com/Gitane_tour_de_france.htm

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/7/2000 at 11:01:50 AM
Mafac brakes are wonderfull, matched up with finned alloy brake shoes by that wonderfull maker of brake shoes. My jaw hit the floor when I was told I could buy the WHOLE, Huge box of Mafac brakes.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by Keith on 7/7/2000 at 11:01:58 AM
P.P.S. The cyclesdeoro site also have a nice pic of Lemond's Gitane for comparison.

   Cycles De Oro posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/7/2000 at 11:23:17 AM
The Cycles De Oro site is awesome but our work is far from complete. We need to find the people who know, get them to contribute, write for us, and fill in the missing parts, sew up the gaps, expand and add picture after picture until it is complete. I hope to really see that site grow to show off the intriguing, colorfull history that is cycling. I am thankful for all the effort that has gone into that site. But baby, the best is yet to come!

   Gitane posted by Oscar on 7/8/2000 at 3:36:39 PM
Retrogrouch? How 'bout respecter or our elders, or keepers of the torch? Actually, my passion in bikes is second-tier roadbikes. They are old enough to catch your eye, but worthy enough to ride. I have a plastic Simplex derailleur set on one of my rides. I heard that they were prone to faileur (haha), and didn't last long. That's when lots of people started buying quality Japanese aftermarket stuff.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by Frank on 7/10/2000 at 12:04:26 AM
Thanks for all the info folks. By the way the pic (on cyclesdeoro) of Lemond's Gitane is in every way a spitting image of my bike. I wasn't quite sure what type it was, but I see now that it is a copy of Lemonds bike. Naturally, I'll be keeping the bike, but not spending any great amounts of hoard on it. How common are aluminum chainrings? These are. I replaced the brake shoes with some stock shimanos (they bite!) and oiled the rear derailléur yesterday and now it outruns stink. Yes the plastic Simplex Prestige are prône to failure. Now--does anyone have a Renault Elf yellow jersey for sale so I can tear up the roads 70's style?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Gitane Tour De France Replica posted by Fred on 7/10/2000 at 12:38:28 PM
Aluminum chain rings and cranks are common to second tier and up road bikes. Sugino is probably the most commonly used in middle level bikes.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by: Lorna on 7/5/2000 at 10:42:12 PM
Well, the refurbishing of my Superbe is coming along nicely! I started at the front (not as scary), and have been dismantling everything, cleaning, polishing, and repacking with new grease. I'd never dealt with bearings before, so this is BIG. I toyed with the idea of not doing the bottom bracket, but it sounded kinda crunchy, so I went for it. Uh...can a dozen dessicated earwigs be considered "extra bearings"? BTW, I followed the suggestions here and on Sheldon's site for removing cotters, and I got 'em in one go!

Now to the problem: I'm taking the AW hub (mostly) apart. I have all kinds of diagrams and directions, but I'm stuck at the RH (sprocket side) ball ring. Question: Do the threads go in the normal direction, or are they reversed? (I get mixed up using RH and LH terminology, thus the foregoing description.) I don't want to keep banging away on the thing and tightening the threads.

Hope you can help me!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by Pete on 7/6/2000 at 5:03:42 AM
Lorna - the threads on the RH (sprocket side) ball ring go in the normal direction. I've had 3 or 4 to bits now, and in every case that ring has unscrewed easier than I expected. Its good you haven't undone it yet, as I am sure your instructions will say that the RH ball ring has a twin-start thread, and it must go back in the same orientation that it was before. If you look at the two flats or notches in trhe ball ring, one notch should have 'SA' stamped in it. Note the position of this notch relative to the shell (I usually relate it to the position of the oiler) before you unscrew it. I must add that I have never come up with a reason for this instruction, but I've seen it repeated often.
Try and get new pawl springs from a Raleigh dealer if you are taking dissmantling the gear completely. Good luck with the rebuild,Pete.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 7/6/2000 at 9:16:21 AM
Be sure to use goggles when using the hammer and punch. Glad to hear it is going well I have seen deceased insects and sunflower seeds in the bottom brackets. You want to use 11 1/4 size ball bearings in each bottom bracket cup and do not use retainer clips but loose balls.This bottom bracket should turn really nicely when you are all done. How about new reflectors and what shape are the pedal reflectors in?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by Lorna on 7/6/2000 at 7:08:51 PM
Thanks for the responses! Yes, I've seen the info about getting the ring back in its original position. Thanks for the tip about EXACTLY where to look for the "SA". I couldn't find it.

Yes, Ma, I'll use goggles...... And I used the same size bearings as the ones that were in there, loose, of course. (Retainer clips....bah! [yes, I know they have their place]). I came up with 11 as being the magic number, as I recall. The bottom bracket and pedals are all put back together, and spin like a charm. I can't feel any resistance at all when I do my "safecracker" (thanks Sheldon) bit. The pedals are in good shape, with the reflectors intact and the rubber just starting to fall apart a little bit. Good enough for many years, I think. As far as the rear reflector goes, I found one that is, I think, authentic, but the housing is grey. I really could use white. Why...got some around the house???

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by WIngs on 7/7/2000 at 12:02:31 AM
To make it authentic, you should put a few earwigs back perpendicular to the bearing race. Rubber gloves would also be a good idea!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/7/2000 at 11:17:58 AM
Do you have the key to the locking fork?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/7/2000 at 12:19:46 PM
Remember,(setting gears on A.W. three speed) the end of the indicator rod is flush with the end of the axle while the trigger shifter is set in the 2nd position. A properly adjusted hub should only have a trace of side play at the wheel rim.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Help dismantling an AW hub posted by Lorna on 7/8/2000 at 7:00:22 AM
Sniff.....no, I don't have the key. Hey, remember: this was a freebie garage find. In fact, the friend who gave me the bike didn't even know it was a three-speed, since it didn't have the trigger shifter or cable when I took possession. (I've obtained both, plus all the bits and pieces needed to put it all together.) I did purchase a new Brooks saddle for it, though. Does that make up for the lack of a key? :-)

Thanks for the tip on the indicator rod.

   Locking fork posted by http://www.ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 7/8/2000 at 9:22:12 AM
Please e-mail me as I can help you. http://www.ChristopherRobin@starmail.com

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Falling into Temptation posted by: Jason on 7/5/2000 at 4:28:27 PM
Howdy folks. I guess the heat made me do it. Today I purchased some more English Steel! My first was a '53 ladies Raleigh Sports with an alloy SW....cool...and for $6.00, I can deal with pretty bad rust. The temptation was greater when I found a Raleigh Built Wester Flyer. I had not seen or heard of these being built by Raleigh before, but it made sense. This one was in A+ condition. Single speed B. hub, Is this Bendix? How does the grease/oil fit work on these? Also it had Schwinnesque cruiser-type handlebars. Full Chromed fenders! Zero rust...Zero wear.. with a good looking Wrights Black/wht mattress saddle. Well, maybe I'll let you all guess what I paid.. What do you think would have been fair? Also know that I am from the Seattle area....rust free bikes are a joy...also...being the West coast, a lot fewer English bikes exist out here. Well....back to the garage to dive into that older sports....


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Falling into Temptation posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/5/2000 at 5:01:18 PM
Does the Sturmey book mention the S.W. hubs being in alloy shells? I have never seen one of these and did not think they ever offered these in alloy. Are you sure this is an S.W.hub? What year is stamped on this rear hub?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Falling into Temptation posted by Jason on 7/5/2000 at 5:07:05 PM
Good call....it is an A.W. I just spent the afternoon cateforizing my bikes.... All the letters are melding together..... it's a 53 8 hub.. Thanks for noticing!!


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Falling into Temptation posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/6/2000 at 9:18:01 AM
Alloy shell hubs are great!

AGE / VALUE:   Ever see one? posted by: ChristopherRobin on 7/5/2000 at 4:07:35 PM
I am hearing about a piece of equipment na local shop had in the late 60's. They used to make barrel type (and other types) cable ferrules. They supposedly poured molten lead onto cable ends in a mold and made cables in house. A bike shop tool like this? Never heard of anything like it. I would not want it. This is where I draw the line in my search for old shop tools. Why a shop would want to have something like this is beyond me. Cables are supplied and all they have to do is sell them! My mechanic friend insists there was one but someone made them throw it away. I would not ever want to work with hot lead. I would not recognize the tool if I saw it. This guy was selling bikes when I was still wobbling back and forth on my training wheels. I went to a fence place (now long gone) to find a gate latch part I needed and I got the whole factory tour and there were huge areas no longer used filled with all kinds of obsolete tooling they can no longer operate for various reasons. The market changed,Vinal never needs painting and will not rot. Here these guys had 1900's equipment. It was a neat tour.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ever see one? posted by Warren on 7/5/2000 at 6:12:43 PM
This subject was touched upon last year...apparently some motorcycle shops do this custom cabling. Makes sense, due to the wide variances in motorcycle specs, especially in the Harley crowd. I don't know what specific tools or equipment they use to accomplish this. I do know that motorcycle cable lengths can be very exact...too much or too little slack can severely affect performance of brakes and clutch. They do on my '77 BMW R60, but I haven't had need for custom cables due to adequate stock.

I do have a couple of bikes where brake cables or SA shifter cables would be "better" in a shorter length. The shifter cable on my rod brake Hercules wags about a foot out in front of the bike. Like you Christopher, I would prefer to leave the molten lead to others!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ever see one? posted by Fred on 7/10/2000 at 12:53:50 PM
I have seen the tool you describe. There was an alternative that I used many times on my English bikes years ago. You could buy brass ferrals in various sizes and configuations that were pre-drilled and counter sunk on one end. The cable was passed through the hole until just flush with the end. Then, the cable strands would be splayed out into the counter sink. A little solder and you had a very strong cable end. I still have a 1955 Triumph and a few of the cable ends in my old kit box.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ever see one? posted by Tom Faust on 7/11/2000 at 8:04:15 AM
Re: Cable end tool. First, I would not be concerned about molten lead in the quantities required. Plumbers do it all the time. As an alternate tool, I would suggest a gun shop which deals in older black powder reproduction guns. They all carry bullet molds in vaious sizes. These could be used to cast a round end on a cable. Lead is so soft that shaping it to the correct size ought not present a problem.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Ever see one? posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/13/2000 at 12:00:20 PM
I like the brass ferrule idea much better. Plumber do use lead and this is no big deal. There are so many old bike tools especially old Raleigh and Cyclo tools I would be so glad to get into my toolbox. I stay away from guns and gunshops. I hate it all (abhorr) with a passion. However bikes, sewing machines and firearms are related in some ways. Iver Johnson (a gun company) made cool bikes and Singer made bikes and a company called Kings Sewing machine (U.S.A.) was contracted by Sturmey-Archer in the early days to produce 500 tricoaster hubs. I read a interesting story(Strange but true) about Samuel Colt's wife and heir(widow) who kept building on room after room after room to supposidly house the spirits of dead indians. She only was at peace while the workmen were hammering away and the building went on for like 20 years until she died. This is in California somewhere a tourist attraction! and you can go see it today. But even the guides get lost. I would rather be in the bike shops

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by: WIngs on 7/4/2000 at 1:40:52 AM
Since there is no recumbent discussion group.....
Recumbents have long chains and I needed to move my chain down on my EZ RACER EZ1 recumbent so it would clear a U brake.

I have purchased tensioners by EZ Racer and Rands in the past. The EZ Racer tensioner was a derailer cage (two plates and bolts for sprockets) and it was noisy. The Rands was great but it was one round "pulley" (Skate board wheel with a groove) that only raised the chain-- I now wanted to raise it in front and drop it to clear a brake in the rear!

So (Brace yourself!),
I found an old "RALEIGH Vgt" rear derailer with a cage that had the two plates connected! I removed it from the derailer and replaced the plastic sprockets with spiffy red ball bearing types. Added two washers on each side and carefully assembled my NEW RALEIGH RECUMBENT CHAIN TENSIONER!

I made an aluminum hanger and mounted it. It keeps more wrap around on the front chain rings and then drops the chain low for the rear derailer! It is passive - spring removed. Keeping the spring worked against the rear derailer.

I road tested it!
IT IS SO QUIET!!!!!!!!! --Because of the bridges holding
the plates together! It works great--better than two
tensionsers that I purchased!
IT IS GREAT!!!!!!!!!!
Best of all it is RALEIGH (had to get that in!)
But did I do something ethically wrong by tearing apart a RALEIGH Vgt derailer?

Perhaps this will be of help to any stray recumbent riders found here! I am now looking at the skateboard wheel on my Ryan Vanguard ... Hmmm.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by Keith on 7/5/2000 at 12:55:07 PM
For some time I'd had an anti-recumbent bias, and would not ride too close to one. My reason -- so many of the recumbent riders I've seen out on the road either couldn't ride in a straight line (especially on short-wheelbase), and/or safely go around a sharp corner (especially on a long wheelbase). In fact, once on one of those rare occassions when I was ridng with a recumbent guy (I was on my DL-1), while he was in the middle of extolling their virtues, we came to a sharp turn and he completely lost control, went off the path, and fell over. But this year I had the pleasure of riding with someone who has really worked hard on his recumbent riding skills. He admitted it took him a lot of miles and a couple of years, but he rode beautifully -- in a perfect straight line, and around corners. And yes, the bike is super-efficient. He was blowing by a lot of serious fast-guy riders without much obvious effort. My bottom line: if your a recumbent rider you should honestly face their inherent handling problems, and do whatever is necessary to overcome them and become a safe rider. I think the Vgt is a rebranded Suntour, isn't it? I don't think it's a museum piece -- at least not in our lifetime. Glad you could "recycle" it.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by Oscar on 7/5/2000 at 1:22:27 PM
I got into an impromptu race with a recumbent rider this weekend and almost lost. What impressed me about this guy is how he took that last winding hill. The bike was perfectly upright even though he was slower than molasses up that hill. Low center of gravity, huh?

Don't worry about the VGT. It's a Suntour, and pretty good, but not sought after. I have one in the parts box.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/5/2000 at 2:28:47 PM
You took an older part you had lying around and modified it and now it runs great and silently too. I think that is cool that you fixed it yourself.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Response to Keith   I need to share! posted by WIngs on 7/5/2000 at 8:11:01 PM
Regarding poor handling of recumbents.
I will not ride the short wheel base (Bottom Bracket in front of front wheel) because they are too twitchy for me.
I have two mid wheel bases that are no more than six feet long. 16 inch wheel on front and 20 inch wheel on the back with the Bottom Bracket behind the front wheel--but with close clearance with shoes to fork.

I have ridden the same recumbent for 7 years. The front wheel, frame, and fork are all that is left of the original bike. At slow speeds there had to be a constant back and forth movement with the handlebar in order to keep balance. However, I rode that bike up our steepest paved mountain bike trail (8 feet wide and one mile uphill) and passed all types of guys walking their mountain bikes. They made recumbents with narrow handlebars to keep the arms in for less wind resistance. The narrowness of the handlebar added to the "twitchiness" at low speeds (under 5 or 6 mph). I lengthened my handlebars and that makes my bike very stable. I can ride a white line for a mile with no problems. I also know my bike! I am just as steady on my recumbent as on my mountain bike -- unless I am on a steep hill and the mountain bike is superior in control (straight line).

Since my changing of rear wheels (Seat is1 inch lower, wider tire now.) I can now do figure 8's in front of my house with very little twictching of the handlebar. Just lean in and do the figure 8. So, I have constantly changed my recumbent to fit my style of riding and my body. Gear inches are something like 18 to 100 since I am in hills and as a recumbent rider I cannot stand up and pedal. They take a new entire group of muscles to build (quads) and it takes a good month to be able to ride one for any real distance. Once the muscles are built, they have memory and respond quickly 6 months later.

I have a long wheel base (about 8 feet?) and I will modify it next. I have not ridden it because I don't consider it to be safe in the traffic and hills I ride in. The seat is too high which makes for awkward stops and starts! Long wheel base recumbents have the most stability and are very stable at high speeds going downhill. Balance is easier on them also especially with underseat stearing.

I would avoid riding near a recumbent going up a steep hill as the speed may drop to where twitchyness starts and it may jump in your path.

I also ride mountain bikes, cross bikes, and retro cruisers. The upright position gives such control - especially when you can stand up and balance in one spot.
I enjoy them, but there is nothing like being low to the ground going down hill at a high rate of speed! I like the variety of the different types of bikes. The main thing is that I am out there putting time on the saddle! I also refuse to use a faring (plastic shield) for the embarrassment I would face when an old DL1 would
pass me going uphill!!!!
The ideal bike for me would be a recumbent diamond folder. It would fold into a regular diamond frame for uphill and automatically refold to a recumbent for downhill and the flats!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Response to Keith   I need to share! posted by Keith on 7/6/2000 at 5:55:37 AM
Bravo Wings! If you ride the white line you're doing better than 80% of the regular roadies out there. You've done your work and know your bike. The guy I referred to also rode a mid-sized-wheelbase bike -- can't remember the brand. I've gotta try one of these.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by Sheldon Brown on 7/6/2000 at 8:31:45 PM
Actually, there are a couple of recumbent discussion groups. I'd particularly recommend the hpv email list, See:


and the Usenet newsgroup alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent


   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by Wings on 7/7/2000 at 12:47:26 AM
Thanks Sheldon for the information!
However, I like this group! A great bunch of people reside here. If those recumbent guys can't ride straight----- makes you "wander!" :)
I still have a Raleigh Colt and a mens Sports in my kitchen -- I am thinking about converting them to a recumbent......with rod brakes! :)
I like internal hubs, I like to tinker! This is a good place! You guys make it that way!

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   I need to share! posted by ChristopherRobin on 7/7/2000 at 11:15:05 AM
A rod brake recumbant? Sounds like uncharted waters to me.This makes me think of this huge homebuilt motorcycle I saw in "Walneeks Cycle trader" This outlaw biker made this really long motorcycle with like 2 corvette engines it could go up to really high speeds the police had trouble keeping up with. This guy was rough and tumble and died in a shootout over some lady.The motorcycle was lost for years afterward. The owner of Walneeks searched for it, finally tracked it down and it is in the Museaum but the owner is unwilling to try and ride it. Ya know, it is really neat to see what diffrent people have come up with, diffrent takes on an old idea, variations. Tinker away may the best, crazy tinkerer win!

MISC:   BRAZING BOSSES posted by: Wings on 7/4/2000 at 1:33:52 AM
Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions for brazing bosses! For now I decided to build an aluminum bridge between the two old bosses in order to mount a 990 plate with bosses. A lot of hacksawing and filing but it worked out great!
I replaced a 20 inch by one and 3/8 wheel with a 20 inch BMX aero wheel so I could have more tire choices and also get lower gear inches on my recumbent. I will try this for awhile and then braze for the permanent setup. The old brake was a roller cam. The new brake is Tektro FX20 -- it is better than a V break! No skids but stops on a dime!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Sprinter 7 posted by: red on 7/4/2000 at 12:06:50 AM
I know it isn't "vintage", but until there is a Sturmey-Archer discussion group I'll bring my questions here. This "sprinter 7" 7-speed hub refuses to stay in gear. I have re-adjusted it more times than I can count. The cable has had plenty of time and use in which to stretch out. I am relativity certain that it is not a problem with the gears themselves. The problem is that no matter which way (or how much) I adjust the cable one or more gears will slip into neutral or a different gear. It seems as though even if I were able to twist the adjustment screw 1/100th of a turn I wouldn't be able to find the perfect (or useable for that matter) adjustment. Does anyone have experience with these hubs? If so, could you answer one or more of the following questions? Could this actually be problem with the guts/gears of the hub? Is there something I should be doing that I'm not accounting for (and yes I do stop pedaling when I shift)? Could this problem be the result of how tight or loose I have the nuts on the axle? Am I just insane and the reality is that S/A could never make a product that isn't perfect?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Sprinter 7 posted by Fred on 7/4/2000 at 9:58:17 AM
Red: I can't give you any spcific help with your problem but I can commiserate with your frustration. A couple of years ago I installed a Shimano Nexus 7 speed in my cruiser Ol'Boomer. From the start I had a problem very similar to yours. After a couple of weeks of trying to make it work I contacted the seller and they referred me to Shimano customer service. I went though phone mail hell before getting through to the service manager. They finally shipped me a new hub but failed to send some critical parts. More phone hell. After 2 months of this c--p, I finally received what I needed, and get this, a new hub plus the guts to a second hub plus triplicates of every external part to the hub. Being honest I would normally return the extra stuff, but I kept everything as compensation for the hell I went through. The new hub works well but I didn't trust it for a while. My advice; get in touch with S-A and I hope they treat you better than Shimano did me.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Sprinter 7 posted by red on 7/4/2000 at 10:39:57 PM
Fred - Thanks for the advice. I did contact S/A about the problem a few weeks ago and they offered to replace the hub (or the guts of the hub, they weren't too specific). I thanked them for their offer and told them that I thought it wasn't a problem with the gears and a replacement wouldn't be necessary. Aside from their offer, they couldn't help diagnose the problem. Part of the reason I raised the questions here is because I am beginning to wonder if I should take them up on their offer. After reading your story, Fred, I think that the odds are there is a problem with the hub. I will probably write to S/A again within the next few days. However, unlike your experience with Shimano, Fred, I'm sure S/A has good customer service.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Sprinter 7 posted by Wings on 7/4/2000 at 11:34:08 PM
I have had excellent results with a Nexus 7. It has gone where any mountain bike can go! It is great.
1. Make sure that the wheel is running true so that the hub is parallel!
2. Axle lock nuts on the hub that are too tight or loose may effect the action of the hub.
3. A chain that is too tight can cause unusual things to happen.
Can you determine specific gears in which the slipping happens or is it all over the gear range? That information would tell SA more information.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Sturmey Archer Sprinter 7 posted by red on 7/6/2000 at 12:07:46 AM
It almost always slips when it is in 3rd gear. It also will slip from time to time while in 2nd gear. And it has only slipped once or twice while in 1st and 4th gears. 5 - 7 are always safe. I'll try checking the alingment, and tightness factors tonight.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: Mark R. on 7/3/2000 at 7:16:58 PM
Oh well, I guess no one wants my Forever:( I guess I'll try to sell it via local means. I will still sell to the fine folks here at Old roads for a very fair price. Write me (e-mail) for a picture if you're interested. To refresh evryones memories, I have one Forever roadster, spare bars, and most of the goodies neccessary to turn it into a three speed. I was asking $125 for the lot, but let's talk.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Keith on 7/5/2000 at 1:02:52 PM
I hear ya Mark -- I've got one with a 3-speed SA AW leaning against the wall of my Mom's garage - no room at my house. It's a great looking bike! As for problems -- well, okay, anyone who wants to can search this forum and figure out that a little extra attention and Loctite will make this bike a good rider.