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Archived: English Roadsters

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by: Edward in Vancouver on 11/14/2001 at 5:09:56 AM
With the rainy season already upon me, I'm looking for a decent brake fro my "rain bike", a '50's Raleigh Sport, recently converted to a 6 speed. The orginal caliper brakes (the kind with the double lugged cables) were too wimpy, and flexed alot. This, combined with steel rims and wet weather made braking a miserable task. I've tried several other brakes, and the best one was an ancient Shimano "Tourney", which was long enough to reach over the front fender. Brking performance was somewhat enhanced with Coolstop "V-brake" pads and teflon coated cables, however the orginal levers still remain. Even with this set-up I find the front brake still flexes, which seems to me wasted braking power. Any suggestions out there?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by MichaelW on 11/14/2001 at 12:49:02 PM
Front hub brakes, whilst not as effective in the dry, maintain their braking power in the wet.
For caliper brakes, an aluminium rim is more effective.
The cheapest solution may be a fibrax pad for steel rims.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Warren on 11/15/2001 at 2:18:21 AM
Edward...I'm confused about your flex problem. I run a 1960 Sports model with the standard brakes, (double ended cables), steel rims etc and it stops on a dime in dry weather. I'm 220 lbs as well. In the rain, the bike does not well but that really is a function of the steel rims and not flex. Those early Raleigh pattern brakes are easier to adjust with the threaded bolts and have stronger steel calipers compared to their contemporaries. I think you should take a stab at dissassembly/adjustment and since the bike is a rain beater, take some coarse sandpaper to your rims and file the brake rubbers on a regular basis. Yes, your rims will rust and wear quickly but you should be able to stop. The best brake rubbers I've ever used are Matthausers (sp) and I have three pair on my daily riders. I will rue the day they wear out.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Edward in Vancouver on 11/15/2001 at 3:22:34 PM
Until I was bitten by the roadster bug, I spoiled myself on bikes with expensive components, starting off with 105, and ending with Dura-ace. I get alarmed when I see the whole brake caliper being "pulled" at least 1/4" forwards, and then moving back to it's orginal position after braking. At first I thought this was due to not having the main bolt tightened down enough, but I soon learned that too tight will affect the calipers's action by not springing back to the open position, as well me having to use excessive pressure on the lever.

Basically, I don't know if it's normal for a "first generation" brake caliper to have so much movement, and wonder if I'm loosing braking performance when this happens, or if the flexing will eventually weaken the caliper arms. In any case I managed to find a pair of slighty used Fibrax pads, and they do seem to work a little better.

Regards, Edward

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Bill Putnam on 11/15/2001 at 8:45:09 PM

The standard Raleigh or Phillips style brakes will work
well if set up properly and given modern cables or good
original cables, and good brake pads. I expect your
biggest problem with wet weather braking is the steel
rims. Steel rims are awful with any brake in wet weather.
You may find some improvement if you can find a steel rim-
specific brake pad-I believe these are leather, but I do not
have a source for them.

Sheldon brown has some information on the Raleigh and
Phillips-type brakes:


Also he has bolt on cable ends and modern cables
that will work with the Raleigh brakes.


A much better solution from a functional perspective
would be to put on alloy rims. Again, Sheldon has these
listed at:


These are the correct 590 mm bead seat diameter, but
are 36 hole only. For my Raleigh Sports, I found
a 36 hole Phillips front hub and scrounged a 36 hole
AW hub shell and built up a completely new set of
wheels. The rims are much lighter than the originals
and I run the tires at a higher pressure than I would
with a steel rim. A few months ago Sheldon was out of
these rims but he may have some in now. If not, Andy
Muzi at the Yellow Jersey


has these rims as well. Note that i used rim washers under
the nipples on the rear rim and also washers under the spoke
heads as this helped the spoke to seat better on the narrow
flange of the AW hub. You could also, of course, go to 700c
wheels and shorter reach brakes for even better brake
performance but then you lose some of the aesthetics of a
50's Raleigh Sports...

Good luck,

Bill Putnam

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Warren on 11/16/2001 at 1:51:47 AM
I think Bill has summed it up nicely. One final note, when you said the calipers were flexing, I was envisioning 3/4" or more because of poor adjustment. I think you'll find that 1/4' is pretty good. Steel can be very flexible...what's the term, ductile?

I especially like alloy EA3 rims if you can find them. I have a vintage 32/40 pair in a westrick pattern that I've put on my mongrel Dunelt club bike. Combined with other alloy components, I have a "Sports" fixed gear bike that weighs in sub 25 lbs. Really nice. BTW, Norco makes a decent blackwall tire that will take 70 lbs and runs real smooth if you looking for replacements.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Edward in Vancouver on 11/16/2001 at 3:38:29 AM
Thanks for all the input, good to hear from you too, Bill P.. I've adjusted all that can be adjusted on the brake, and if the caliper flexes, well I won't let it bother me. I guess aluminum rims are the bet way to go, maybe I'll try that in the summer. Right now I'm still waiting for a N.O.S. Rleigh rim that I want to lace up to a re-built FG hub. Currently I have an FG/Raleigh rim wheel on my Superbe that I want to put on my "rain bike" Sports, but I want to substitute the dyno hub with a drum brake. I've finally got all the parts for it, all I need is the time. Perhaps I could christen this a FB hub? In any case this should get the braking problem settled once and for all.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Ben on 11/16/2001 at 12:52:05 PM
Ed, it sounds like you either have very worn bushings or improper bushings in your caliper.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Wimpy brakes posted by Ralph on 11/17/2001 at 9:18:21 AM
As "Edward in Vancouver" told somebody else, "Ooh-boy ... what an imagination, eh?"

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brit Bike Pub Crawl in Phila 11/17 posted by: Michael McGettigan on 11/14/2001 at 2:53:05 AM
Greetings: the Brit Bike Pub Flit continues this month in Philadelphia, as always, on the 3rd sat of each month. Motto is 3 speeds, 3 pubs, 3 hours. It's an easy ride for anyone with an English roadsters. We meet 5:30 pm at McGillin's Old Ale House, 1310 Drury Lane, just off 13th St. above Sansom. Send an email for more info or to get on the mailing list... cheers McG

MISC:   Trying to remember... posted by: Dale Oswald on 11/13/2001 at 2:44:24 PM
Captured a '74 ladies Sports from a junk collector for $5. I repositioned the rear wheel and rode it away. I does need a lot of work, but it'll be a labor of love.

It prompted me to wonder: Could I remember the model numbers from Raleigh's line in the early 70s when I worked at a dealer? Here go my best guesses:
DL1/DL1L Tourist
DL21/L Sports
DL23/L Superbe
DL95?/L Sprite 27
DL100/L Record
DL115/L Grand Prix
DL130?/L Super Course (L was mixte)
DL1?? Gran Sport
DL160? Competition
DL170 Professional
DL180 International

I can't even begin to guess what the model numbers were for Folder, Colt or Chopper. Can anybody fill in the gaps?

BTW, I currently own a Sports, Superbe, Grand Prix (made into a commuter bike before such a thing was available), Super Course (converted to FW) and International models from that era. The Super Course is going to be made into a lightweight recumbent with the International running gear; does that make it a Raleigh Inter Course?

   RE:MISC:   Trying to remember... posted by Jon on 11/13/2001 at 11:00:17 PM
DL18/L Colt or Space Rider?
DL20 Folder
DL24/L Superbe?
DL55 Chopper
And I believe the Sports was DL22/L, International was DL170, Pro was top of the line DL180.
There was also a DL90/L 5 speed Sprite.

   RE:MISC:   Trying to remember... posted by Jon on 11/13/2001 at 11:03:12 PM
I proposed the latter part of your statement to the Raleigh rep in '72 and I don't think it was the first time he heard it either. ;)

   RE:RE:MISC:   Trying to remember... posted by Dale Oswald on 11/14/2001 at 4:24:07 AM
That makes sense, about the Pro vs. Int'l, but I seem to remember the numbers going the other way, perhaps due to order of introduction? Now I'm gonna cheat and see if I still have a '73 catalog - which might or might not have model numbers. WRT the wordplay, the 'Course is my wife's old bike, the Int'l is mine... And we've been bantering that one around since 1972, too. Just that we finally get to "cross an International with a Super Course". Will advise if I find that catalog.

   RE:MISC:   Trying to remember... posted by DBean on 11/21/2001 at 3:22:11 PM
From a Raleigh catalog '1976
185 Team Pro
175 Track
180 Pro
170 Inter'l
165 Comp
160 GS
100 Super Course
115 GP
130 Record
129 Record w/26" wheels
140 Super Tourer

   RE:MISC:   Trying to remember... posted by DBean on 11/21/2001 at 3:26:40 PM
!@#!! computer
90 Sprite 5 spd
95 Sprite 10 spd
24 Superbe
1 Tourist (28" wheels & rod brakes)
22 Sports
32 LTD
25 Folder
55 MX
128 Record 24"
58 Colt
54 Space Rider
80 Mountie
step-thru frames all appended "L"

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Superbe fork lock posted by: Garbage guy on 11/13/2001 at 9:52:32 AM
I found an old Raleigh Superbe frame leaning against a wall the other day. i waited 8 hours and then took it home. I figure a full day leaning against a wall and it's salvageable junk.
Anyhow... The frame has been totally stripped, I'm not even about to renovate it, but I might recycle it as a bike to pop up the shops on. it has a fork lock which looks pretty clean, but no key. Is there any way I can get a replacement key for the lock (which is clearly numbered). It has been suggested that a good locksmith could make me a new key, but to be honest, I plan to get this bike on the road for the cost of a new pair of tyres and inner tubes at the most.
I'll put it together with whatever junk I can find lying on the street or in skips over the next few months.
The fork lock would be cool cos then I could just hop on it and go without having to carry another lock.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Superbe fork lock posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/13/2001 at 4:20:59 PM
The fork lock would prevent it from being ridden, but not taken away.
I would carry a lock as we have heard of these being taken before.
The locksmith would not charge very much at all, but I understand your point about wanting to keep the cost down.

MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by: Stacey on 11/12/2001 at 9:54:39 PM
I am deeply troubled by the fact that I feel compelled to pen this missive. I've been visiting OldRoads.com for a bit over two months now. About the same time I found this site, I had also found another which offered a bulletin board for sharing Bikes, Parts, Ideas & Information. This site was Schwinn.com. After spending about a half an hour scanning each of the boards it was readily apparent at which I'd spend my Web surfing time. Clearly, OldRaods.com hands down. Thank you Vin for being here!

Lately, it seems as though this too was an un-wise choice. Almost daily the level of intelligence and respect for others dips to a new all time low. I'm not going to mention names and willfully embarrass anyone... You know who you are! But, I will say this; I find it very frustrating to pull up this site and read post after post of over inflated ego's and under inflated tolerance.

Who cares if someone finds it more comfortable to put Schwinn grips on a Raleigh? What would it hurt NOT to lambaste someone for asking a simple question about the English "Roadster" that they just found? It may be crap to you. But hey! It's gold to them. So what, it's not a StingRay or a Krate... It's theirs and that's what important. Why, Oh Why would someone feel the need to waste the time and effort to put up a bogus post about buying StingRay #3 at a yard sale for $10.00, only to fictitiously "reply" to it with an equally bogus post "validating" said "find"? Someone even felt the need to try to pull a "one up" on me with my "In the wind" sign off. This is beyond all comprehension people.

When I first came to OldRoads.com it felt warm, comfortable, and friendly. Honest questions met with honest, factual answers. There was a certain esprit de corps, a camaraderie, and a brother (sister) hood of kindred folks who have one basic concept in common... Bicycles! Some of us collect them, some ride them for pleasure, others for basic transportation, some of us deal in them stock & trade, some of us even rescue them from a certain demise at the crusher only to offer them a second chance at life by stripping them of their shiny things and cutting apart their skeletons to breathe life into new creations... Frankenbikes if you will. All of that, all of our particular special interests aside we share one thing, BICYCLES! We are all "In the Wind". Now, now it feels as though these boards have become a venting ground for the mis-directed angers of masculine inadequacey and erectile dysfunction. Hostilities abound, blatant and senseless "willie wagging" in order to sure up those fragile ego's. Please stop! Stop it now. Stop the willie-wagging and infighting. No one wants to read your vile spleen venting anger and all your hostilities will do is drive other decent folks away!

You self-aggrandizing purists would just die to see my daily rider. To save you all the trip to Northwestern Bucks County, PA, I'll tell you about it. It started life as a Raleigh Capri, a 10 speed Road bike, lugged steel framed of unknown composition, What does it matter? It feels good riding it! Gone are all of the low end componentry and replaced with pieces I like. Why? Because it's my bike and this is what I like. Off with the "7" shaped steering neck and replaced it with a more upright stem from a DiamondBack comfort bike. Gone are the Drop-Down handle bars. Replaced with a pair of "Roadster" type bars installed upside down with the grips angled downward in the back. Why? You guessed it... It's mine. I like it this way! Oh, I've got a great imagination. Try it you'll like it! Brake levers are from the same DiamondBack... ProMax units that originally pulled V-Brakes. Why am I going through all of this trouble to tell you about it? Yep, It's mine and I'm proud of it! I could care less that you are disgusted by my bastardization. I don't criticize your bike, please grant me (and all of the other kinder gentler people that visit here) the same courtesy!

In the Wind,

   RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by Warren on 11/13/2001 at 3:20:47 AM
A nice breath of fresh air Stacey...

Lists/discussion groups are the the strangest communities (I'm on 5 of them and only 3 are for bikes)...this one is no exception. This one is a little different in that it is rarely regulated...it's been able to be self-governing for the few years I've been monitoring it. There is turn-over...tempers occasionally flare and people leave either quietly or in a huff. We really should use basic social common sense...don't discuss, religion, politics, race etc. It would also help not be strident with adjectives and phrases..." you should ALWAYS do this or be this blah blah" just cuz someone else's world view is that way.

If people tried to be moderates...temper their opinions with "maybes", "possiblies" and "perhaps" then it would encourage more level-headed discourse. I hate to be sexist about it but I think men are less capable then women in doing this. The few spirited women that I've seen on this list have always left after a few months...remember Claudia?" She too, tired of the boy tech-talk and posturing.

I would take issue with one thing Stacey...being a purist doesn't preclude being self-aggrandizing. It's OK to be a purist as long as one doesn't look down their noses for others not following suit. I think your mongrel bike sounds just fine...it may not get the praise and respect you would like from this list...that should be no be surprise but no one should be dissing you either.


   RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by Ben on 11/13/2001 at 2:03:38 PM
As much as I agree with your sentiment Stacey, it is important to note that all communities are made up of a broad array of personalities. As in physical instances, there is no gentle way to become a new member - there are those that welcome you by bringing dinner to your door and others who yell at you for walking across their lawn.

I am fairly sensitive to language also, and having lived the last 18 years in Chicago, my sensibilities have been tested like the back wall of a shooting gallery here. It has made me stronger for sure, which is a good thing. In the end, we all contribute what we can, in the manner we were taught. In the end, if a good person leaves the community (and you seem like a good person), the community loses one more good influence.

In my view, it is the duty of us all to show loyalty to Vin, and be the example of what we believe for all to see, good or bad.

If I have been one of those that has violated the sensibilities of others, I apologize now.



   RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by sam on 11/13/2001 at 3:08:41 PM
Stacey,Please, Don't go..........sam

   RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by Art on 11/13/2001 at 7:37:07 PM
I always find it interesting when a disgruntled member has to pen a dramatic exit from a site. My hunch is that the member really wants to stay, but needs to feel coaxed back or the member has some agenda that is not being actualized on the site or the "I want the site to be the way I want it, and if it isn't I'm leaving" schtick or the person wants to punish the remaining members for some sleight or the leaving member can't get beyond a personal conflict with another member. I also wonder if people who make parting posts hang around to read what people say about them after they're gone, kind of like Huck Finn at his funeral.
I've always thought that I have an obligation to try and make things right if I can, elsewhere as well as here. I think that blatant breeches of appropriateness and civility are dealt with quickly by the webmaster. I think a site that has few rules and essentially monitors itself is a good deal. I overlook things in what others post as I'm sure they overlook those instances where my misinformation or opinions would bother them. It is my experience that some of the most opinionated posters are also some of the kindest, most generous contributors. Go figure.
I think we are a diverse lot and besides the fact that in the scheme of things, bike collecting is pretty low on the list of earth shattering events, just remember that 3 days after you post something here, there is a whole bunch of new stuff to take its place.
I think humor is the key and I think I have found a lot of funny things said here. I didn't take the thread about grips to be mean spirited in the least. I hope that I don't become so thin skinned that I don't repect differing opinions, no matter how they are expressed.
Art Smith, Phoenix.

   RE:RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by Stacey on 11/13/2001 at 10:25:38 PM
Thank you, Art, for taking the time to reply to my posting. Though I must take exception to some of your key points. Primarily, I never said that I was leaving, I more acurately said that, with regard to my decission of participating at OldRoads... "Lately, it seems as though this too was an un-wise choice".

From this misinterpertation of my statement you've taken liberty to do a complete psycological evaluation of me. With, if I might add, a plethora of incorect conclusions.

Clearly, you read what you choose to read and blindered by by your own short-sightdedness, disregard everything else. I am far from "gone", kind sir.

Please, do us both the honor of re-reading my post. Then, before you get yourself in trouble by "Thinking", try for a moment if you will to "Feel", something males are usually quite incapable of doing, please scan the boards... look for the anger and intolerance expressed by some of the visitors with regards to and by StingRay's and their owners. Look for the inapropriateness in the post about the political implications of Mr. Bowden. Look, Read & Feel, that's all that I ask. This misdirected anger has no place in a social environment like these discussion boards. If you'd like, try to prove me wrong. But please, let's continue this off the boards.

In the wind,

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by Art on 11/14/2001 at 1:02:02 AM
"Off the boards?" I don't know, Stacey. I'll have to think about it. I'm not sure what I feel.


   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   What's the use? But here goes! posted by JimW. on 11/14/2001 at 3:00:23 AM
Remember the good old days, when we only had to swap info on
quirky bikes? The nice thing about Oldroads is that conflragations tend to be self-quenching. We're way too fusty here to get overly het-up about much of anything.
What was the question?

MISC:   Rack and Pump question posted by: Robert on 11/12/2001 at 3:14:57 PM
Got a question on the ’64 Dunelt that I got last week. I want to put a rack on it and want something that is somewhat period correct. Did the make the Pletscher then?

Also, what is the best procedure for using the older style frame pumps with the screw on hose connection?
It seems that you would lose a lot of air before you can get it unscrewed from the tube.

   RE:MISC:   Rack and Pump question posted by DBean on 11/12/2001 at 5:22:05 PM
The regular Pletscher racks were certainly available then. See if you can find a special bracket that sits on the brake bridge and supports the rack so it doesn't slide down the stays. (When you're in Switzerland or Italy, you can find great wire shopping baskets that engage these racks and are held on by the spring clip.) On the pump, my recollection is you need to overinflate, unscrew fast and then ease the excess pressure it there is any.

   RE:MISC:   Rack and Pump question posted by Ben on 11/12/2001 at 5:37:20 PM
What color is your Dunelt? I have a couple of NOS period steel racks in black.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Rack and Pump question posted by Robert on 11/12/2001 at 7:03:07 PM
I have a Pletscher rack already so I'll most likely be using that. Thanks for the info on the pump. The answer is so simple now that you have expained it. I will need to find an original looking pump to mount on it rather than using a mini pump or my Zefal Hpx.

Thanks for the replies.

   RE:MISC:   Rack and Pump question posted by Robert on 11/12/2001 at 10:07:42 PM
I should have thought of this earlier. Were there any "touring style" (low rise / straighter across) that would be basically period correct for the '64? The sport bars are ok for shorter rides, but for longer runs I believe a touring style would work out better .
Also need a source for same.

Thanks again.

   RE:MISC:   Rack and Pump question posted by Sheldon Brown on 11/13/2001 at 12:22:54 AM
The Pletscher is OK, but if you're serious about period correctitude, you should remove the front fold-up stop.

As to the pump, unscrew the pump from the hose first, then you can unscrew the hose quicker if you don't have to spin the pump.

The older (period correct) hoses didn't have the valve depressor and check valve.

The good news with those was that you didn't lose any air unscrewing the valve.

The bad news was that you had to build up enough air pressure on each stroke to pop open the spring in the schrader valve.

The hot setup for hose pumps & schrader valves is to use the old-style hose, but to remove the valve core and snip off the spring, then put the core back in. Without the spring, the valve isn't quite as airtight as with, so you need to use a good valve cap (metal with rubber seal.)

Sheldon Brown

AGE / VALUE:   S/A 3 speed w drum brake hub posted by: Harris on 11/12/2001 at 4:04:04 AM
I have a 3 speed SA hub with a cable actuated brake on a 1970 Moulton Mark 3. I was wondering if they used this hub on full sized wheel bikes and if so..........was it as insufficient as the one supplied on the MOulton as far as stopping power?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   S/A 3 speed w drum brake hub posted by Sheldon Brown on 11/13/2001 at 12:13:50 AM
The power of a drum brake is inversely proportional to wheel size. That S3B brake was fairly pitiful on the Moulton's 16 inch wheel...it would be a joke on a full-sized wheel.

I used to have one of these, came on my MKIII. One of the first modifications I did was to junk the hub and install a brazed-on Mafac centerpull.

Sheldon "Stop!" Brown

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by: Andrew on 11/11/2001 at 12:43:09 AM
My 1974 Raleigh DL-1 has a Brooks B-72 saddle. I'm looking for a softer ride and wanted to know which model was the most deluxe for that Rolls-Royce ride that is needed for these New England roads!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by Kevin C. on 11/11/2001 at 1:13:43 AM
Brooks B90-3 is the best, in my opinion. Read all about it at sheldonbrown.com.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by Jeff Bikeguy on 11/11/2001 at 4:21:23 AM
I just put a new B-66 on my old cruiser. It added some class to the bike. It's fairly wide and springy too. The B-90 and B-33's are nice too but I think they're a little too big, heavy, and pricey for an everyday rider. It's great that these saddles are still available.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by Ben on 11/11/2001 at 5:33:19 AM
I have the Wrights version of the B90/3 on my Phillips and it is by far the best saddle I have ever ridden. And it looks great on a roadster like the Phillips or the DL-1

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by Andrew on 11/11/2001 at 11:28:46 PM
Where might one find a Brooks B90/3 that does not cost an arm and a leg?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by Jeff on 11/12/2001 at 2:11:23 AM
You may want to try your local bike shop first. Most of the Brooks saddles are still available and they may be able to order one for you. If not try Harris Cycles. They have a nice section of thier website with photos of the saddles. Brooks saddles are a bit pricey but well worth it.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by Ben on 11/12/2001 at 5:34:31 PM
I agree with Jeff...you could spend $40 for a saddle and it would be ok, but if you intend to ride this bike a great deal, 3x that cost, which equates to a couple of overhauls, or a new set of wheels, will give you a very long lasting benefit. The diffeence between the sprung seats and the others is substantial.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Brooks saddles on Raleigh's posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/12/2001 at 8:38:45 PM
The Brooks seats, especially the B-90/3 is worth every penny. Just loop the cycle lock through the nose spring so it stays on your bike.

MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by: ALBERT on 11/10/2001 at 8:56:43 PM
Soon, 11 November will again cause many to think of those who died in The Great War, WWI . Please remember those American and Commonwealth young who died needlessly. They were drawn into a war whose aims were only those which would benefit the crowned heads and industrialists. Amongst the latter were were the likes of Raliegh Cycles owner, Frank Bowden. Here we have a man who eagerly proposed to the British government that his bicycle manufacturing facility be given over to the production of bomb fuses and gun parts; a proposal made very early in the war when most thought it would be soon over. Needless-to-say, Frank Bowden soon became Sir Frank and very much the wealthier.Yes, remember our dead with respect but remember the likes of Sir Frank with the contempt that all like him deserve.

   RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Edward in Vancouver on 11/10/2001 at 11:36:24 PM
Anytime you want to talk about Napalm, or why the U.S. is the only civilized country that supports and stockpiles land mines, give me a shout--of line of course. This discussion area is for English roadsters

   RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Mike on 11/11/2001 at 12:41:01 AM
Any manufacturer who made anything big or small switched to war production. Maybe we would all be speaking German if they had not done so. Even Ingaz Schwinn produced for the allies against his birth country!

   RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Ted on 11/11/2001 at 12:57:53 AM
Liberals! You can spot that attitude even in print.

   RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Ralph on 11/11/2001 at 1:04:59 AM
It's spelled R-A-L-E-I-G-H, Albert. Your spelling is as good as your revisionist history. ;o)

   RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Stacey on 11/11/2001 at 3:32:39 AM
This thread is entirely inapropriate! Please, save your socio-political rhetoric for polysci.com or the local beer garden. Thank you!


   RE:MISC:  Frank Bowden: Where would we be without his vision? posted by Christopher on 11/12/2001 at 4:27:16 PM
After reading the above post I thought it necessary to take a very good book down off my shelf and share some snippets and my feelings here. The factory was to be called upon to serve its country in quite a spactular way in the years that followed.(p.36)Frank Bowden had shown himself to be a man of far- sighted vision and great wisdom in dealing with the great crises in the cycle trade in the early years of the last century. Now that there was not just a cycle crisis but a national one, he showed that he was equal to that to. In the first few months of the war, everyone was saying 'it will all be over by Christmas'. Not so Bowden. Contrary to the general belief he told his son when the war was only a few days old that it would probably last for several years and that instead of the 100,000 men that Kitchner had called for, more like a million would be needed if Britain was to win.
The foreman of the the press shop worked in close co-operation with Colonel Lewis the inventor of the Lewis gun. As reward for his prompt and patriotic action, Frank Bowden recieved a baronetcy in the Kings birthday Honours of 1915. (p.39-40)
Inevitably the war produced scares and rumors of all sorts and one such rumor which was quite widespread in the winter of 1916 was that Raleighs might have to give up bicycle manufacture altogether in 1917. Harold Bowden lost no time in sending out a circular to all agents saying that unless something unforseen and totally unexpected was to happen, deliveries for 1917 would be just as reliable as they had been in 1916. 'We are ever mindful that cycles are our standard trade and that in the main our agents' living depends on it. As far as ever lies in our power, their interests shall continue to be our first consideration.(p.43)Upon Sir Frank's death, the editor of Bicycling News, wrote in May 1921.(among other things) that 'and we remember with gratitude a good many acts of kindness and consideration with which his name was associated'.(p.45-46) The cycles that appeared during this time were a constable's bicycle which was fitted with specially strong tyres. There were also the 'Scout' and 'military' models. All these were soon in great demand and their durability was greatly praised.(p.39) Skip to p74-75 where we read By some miracle the factory was never bombed although, if it had been, the effect on the war would have been catastrophic, since Nottingham was, on its own producing by far the greater part of the total national supply of fuses.We see now, how inportant this company was during the First and Second World War. Frank Bowden founded Raleigh. He was pleased with an up- to- date bicycle made by Woodhead, Angois and Ellis at a little workshop in Raleigh street.The cycle having a diamond frame with the crank-bracket built into it instead of being clamped on, as then generally made. It had a 26 inch steerer with anti-vibration front forks and a 28 inch inch rear wheel; it was shod with 7/8 inch solid tyres instead of the usual 1/2 or 3/4 inch. Above all it had an interchangable gear, effected in about 10 minutes by removing the bolted -in gear wheel and replacing it by a larger or smaller one at the same time adding a loose link to the chain or taking one from it. There we had the first 3 speed gears-but what cmbersome ones.(p.14) Frank Bowden was a blessing! A sharp buisness man who played the main part in giving us our favorite bicycle(s). He got it all rolling with his investment and leadership skills. He built this into a great company,with many others such as William Reilly's 3 speed hub gear(Sturmey-Archer).This company, and these men were destined to contribute to the well being and happiness (not to mention freedom from the Nazis) of many, many people in peacetime and war.(From Story of the Raleigh Cycle by Gregory H. Bowden)

   RE:RE:MISC:  Frank Bowden: Where would we be without his vision? posted by Peter on 11/12/2001 at 5:22:19 PM
As "Edward in Vancouver" so intelligently put it, "Ooh-boy, what an imagination, eh?"

   RE:RE:MISC:  Frank Bowden: Where would we be without his vision? posted by Ralph on 11/12/2001 at 7:10:59 PM
Nice research Christopher. That sounds much better than the regurgitations of some leftist history professor.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:  Frank Bowden: Where would we be without his vision? posted by ALBERT on 11/12/2001 at 8:17:18 PM
Christopher, the book you cited was little more than a T.I.(Raleigh) house organ, it was infact commissioned by that company. I must say that using it as a sole source from which to draw does detract from the credibility of your contentions.
I am at a lose to explain the hostility with which my origional posting was greeted. Most replies showed a great unawareness of the revealations brought to light after the War. I presumed that the educated were well aware of the War's folly and the victimization of the ordinary working man who fought on both sides. I should like to beleive that those who read my posting with understanding were not moved to reply as were those whose ignorance brought about an out pouring of anger. In particual found Edward's comments extremely distastful.

   RE:RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Robert on 11/13/2001 at 1:38:42 AM
To Edward in Vancouver: I can tell you don't understand much about the landmine issue. e-mail me and i will explain why the U.S. position is absolutely warranted. And your so-called "facts" are off base, too. My other point is to agree with the responder who noted, correctly, that oldroads.com is for discussing bicycles, not left-wing political rhetoric.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Frank BOWDEN, WAR PROFITEER posted by Stacey on 11/13/2001 at 10:31:29 PM
Clarification is in order here Robert... Not just "Left-Wing" political rhetoric, but rather political rhetoric in general. :-)

In the wind,

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC: Sir Frank Bowden: Where would we be without his vision? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/15/2001 at 12:31:42 AM
House organ? Well then, what a marvelous "house" and such glorious "music" to come out of it.

AGE / VALUE:   tire size age posted by: mel pendleton on 11/10/2001 at 6:03:28 PM
Tire size is 26x1 3/8.The only number on the hub is the patent number.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   tire size age posted by Ed on 11/10/2001 at 9:09:57 PM
This tire size has been used in the 40', 50's, 60's & 70's You will have to identify some other characteristics of the bike.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Delivery Bike posted by: Art on 11/10/2001 at 1:41:59 AM
Rod braked delivery bike on e-bay 1029734893 if someone is looking do start a career as a street vendor.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Age posted by: John on 11/9/2001 at 9:28:03 PM
Oops, I should have said 1949 OR 1950.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Age posted by: John on 11/9/2001 at 9:01:47 PM
I own a Men's Raleigh Model 23 Sports Tourist 3-speed with a front Dynohub and a rear AW hub marked 49-9. The serial number is 54253AU. I bought it new in 1950. It is in great shape and has all of its original parts except for the grips, one tire, one tube, and kit bag. I still enjoy riding it. My question is, can anyone tell me if my bike is considered to be a 1949 1950 Raleigh?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Age posted by Jon on 11/10/2001 at 2:56:24 AM
Generally, frame production lagged behind production of other parts. So its possible that the bike is a 1950. However there are other factors. The online serial number chart doesn't seem to correspond your frame number accurately. Most dealers would try to anticipate the next year's sales and buy accordingly before spring. So the time of year that you purchased your bike may be a factor. Raleigh would try to move old stock out before the end of the year and a wise dealer may jump on a bargain in older model bikes before buying the latest models. If you purchased later in 1950, you more than likely got a 1950 model. This purely speculation bolstered by my experience in the business. But unless someone comes up with more accurate production numbers or a catalog documenting model changes, it's probably a fair assesment.

AGE / VALUE:   parts from exercisers posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/9/2001 at 5:25:07 PM
The old exerciser comes into view and I think "long seatpost!" I jump out and and look to see if it is quick release or if I need to use tools. It's fixed with a nut and bolt but wait, theres a spanner right on the thing. How handy! The seat post is really long and some of these have stars on them or lines and some are plain. Some posts are too big, some an exact fit.
The Schwinn model shares the same size post as many of the bikes. Also large seats, pedal cranks,heavy duty, nice Sedis chains, the adjustible thingies with the binder bolts, speedometers or cables take a good look at these when you spot them.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   age /value posted by: mel pendleton on 11/8/2001 at 10:17:27 PM
i have a triumph bicyle serial number 69045- da. it has a sturmey archer rear hub model ag, rear dyno hub, rod brakes,full chain case. can anyone tell me the year of manufacture and approx value.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   age /value posted by DBean on 11/9/2001 at 3:36:43 PM
Sounds like a nice bike. What size "tyres?" (28 x 1 1/2?) Its year is probably stamped on the SA hub; e.g. "58." Let us know.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   age /value posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 11/9/2001 at 4:38:10 PM
What size wheels does this have? 26 1 3/8 or 28 X 1 1/2? The A.G. will have a date stamped on the hub right besides the A.G. stamp./ This is the year the hub and likely the bike too was made.
Great find!