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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Quadrant tricycle on e-bay! posted by: ChristopherRobin on 2/21/2001 at 3:28:56 PM
Take a look at this! E-bay item #1114386041 Rare Old English Tricycle Collector Item

It's a Quadrant! Not my auction, no relation to seller, just thought you would like to see it.

MISC:   Site Update posted by: Greg Groth on 2/20/2001 at 9:58:54 PM
Site's been updated. I've got a couple teardowns for the AW and the Bendix yellow band kickback listed in the tech section. Was hoping some kind souls here could take a gander and poke any holes in it. (You won't hurt my feelings, I scanned it from some old manuals I have come accross). Also have a couple of pics of my custom 3 wheeler if you need a laugh. Thanks again to all who have been helping me sort out my Hercules.

   RE:MISC:   Site Update posted by Greg Groth on 2/20/2001 at 10:08:25 PM
Probably wouldn't hurt if I posted the URL.


   RE:RE:MISC: Greg's Hercules bike  posted by ChristopherRobin on 2/21/2001 at 4:42:38 PM
I enjoyed seeing the site and the Hercules bike. This is not what was called a "club machine" A club bike would have Reynolds 531 tubing, alloy rims, Alloy brakes like G.B. and lightwieght Blumels mudguards. These are steel Raleigh made brakes but the bike is a origonal Hercules because of the rear drop out. I like the handlebar bend! It's diffrent. A good trivia question would be to "Name this bend" The crank looks to me like a Raleigh one. This style was Raleigh's famous crank before and later alongside with the "heron crank" It looks like this was made during the period when Raleigh picked up Hercules. Raleigh parts on a Hercules frame, this was done for a brief period during the takeover. The Hercules crank had a "H" in the pattern. Then Hercules became a name on a Raleigh made Nottingham bike. The Raleigh dropouts are diffrent. The flip flop hub is from the origonal Hercules side of things.However, Raleigh made flip flop hubs too. Does it say Birmingham, England on the hub?

   RE:RE:RE:MISC: Greg's Hercules bike  posted by Greg Groth on 2/21/2001 at 10:04:04 PM
Hubs are stamped "sWiley Co ltd" as far as I can make out. Another person that had contacted me identified these as Bayliss-Wiley. Front is stamped "No9", Back is stamped "No10". Freewheel is stamped "Hercules Unscrew -> Made in England". Any way to tell what frame tubing might have been used? The decals are completely unreadable. I know of the crank you speak, I remember someone in the family having a three speed that had "Hercules" spelled out in the crank. Was this a common trait on all Hercules bike sof this period? I have to say that your theory probably makes the most sense of the one's I have heard, as I've seen quite a number of peculiarities in bicycles when lines were dropped and so on. Schwinn would use up old stock when discontinuing bike lines rather than manufacture new stock to outfit the bike according to catalog specs. The last Orange Krate to come off of the Schwinn line back in '73 was kept by the company and stored for many years. When James Hurd built the bike for display, he would relate stories of collectors explaining that his bike was "wrong" in many different ways and that is was obviously not original. Luckily he had the knowledge that since this bike was the last off of the line, there wasn't enough of the correct tires to put on it - they had run out, same thing on some of the other parts. The only reason I bring this story up is that I have gotten quite a number of responses to the Hercules, and opinions vary as to what it is, and how old it is. I am not complaining in any way, as I have greatly appreciated every response I have gotten, as I know very little of English roadsters. I've had differing opinions on every aspect on this bike so far, people agreeing that it is original, and an equal number disagreeing stating that nothing on the bike is original. One person responded that the bike is a "mutt" and better off served as scrap material, others have stated it is well worth keeping and restoring. I hate to say it but the responses I have received have piqued my curiosity even moreso. I have been envisioning a trip to England one day to attempt to track down someone that had worked for Hercules and ask them in person. I've been spoiled by Schwinn, living in Chicago (Schwinn's former hometown) it's fairly easy to contact individuals who worked in the factory and get the lowdown on mysteries such as this, the former employees I have spoken to have a remarkable amount of pride and memories to match. Well, until I'm independantly wealthy, I think I can hold off checking out airfare on tickets to England. I thank everyone again who has spared their time to comment on this bike, it's been very much appreciated. I've been having a blast checking this board and my email for comments, it's really helped pass the time until that first warm day when I can get out on the road. If anyone has any further comments on this bike, please do so, and thanks in advance.

    Greg's Hercules bike  posted by ChristopherRobin on 2/22/2001 at 4:17:25 PM
I have catalog sheets of Bayless- Wiley hubs and cones, really detailed sheets. They made hubs and cones and freewheels. Good stuff. I don't know what happened to the company. Berto explains it in the book The Dancing Chain pretty well. The really primo sought after stuff is Chater -Lea. The fine club and racing bikes had Chater-Lea componets. I don't know about what tubing was used, I have not run across somebody who can answer that but Im sure there are people who can answer this one. Some Hercules cranks has just an H and then some had it spelled out. It is amazing how many diffrent cranks were made. I would try to take down interviews with the folks you meet who have memories about Schwinn if you are in the area. Probably one day in the future a more detailed book showing us the history of Schwinn, its workers, models, factories e.t.c. will come out.Especially as more information comes to light and even though so much has already been covered, I would be doing interviews if the oportunity is presenting itself.

   RE: Greg's web site posted by Riuch on 2/24/2001 at 1:04:14 AM
I just finished checking out your site and enjoyed your various pics of your bikes, especially the Scrambler, Hercules and the three wheeler. Where does one come about a conversion kit for such creations? Is it a custom built kind of thing or is it something I could pick up at the right bike shop or here on the internet? Thanks much, Riuch

   RE:RE: Greg's web site posted by Greg Groth on 2/24/2001 at 7:42:57 PM
I have been able to find out the following, hope you don't get too bored. From what I've been able to gather the conversion kit enjoyed some brief popularity in the early sixties, as no big name brand was producing any 3-wheelers. After the release of bikes such as the Town & Country by Schwinn, the market dropped out as it was easier for dealers to purchase an entire bike rather than building wheels for the conversion kit (kit came without rims from what I've been told), and the conversion kit disappeared. Schwinn produced two distinct drive mechanisms for their three wheelers. The first one had one drive wheel, the right rear wheel was basically a front wheel. They switched this at some point in the late 60s to a differential, like an automobiles. This changed the drive to both rear wheels (depending on which had the least resistance). This greatly improved turning capabilities because with only one drive wheel it made it next to impossible to make a left turn unless you're coasting throughout the turn (drive wheel was on the left). The Schwinn Town & Country was basically a conversion kit as the entire back assembly could be unbolted from the frame, however the rear end had a substantial framework on top of the axle for supporting the baskets and I believe to attatch it to the frame. Modifying one of these to accomodate a rear end like the one I constructed would require a large amount of modification to the rear end to get it to fit. Other manufacturers that are still producing 3-wheelers use a specially designed frame that don't utilize a standard bike frame. My opinion is that these other bikes is that frame construction is of the same quality as department store bikes (Worksman excluded). I have never heard of a company producing a conversion kit before I happened accross this one. If you're looking to do something along this nature, I would suggest finding an old Town & Country, as that was the only 3-wheeler I know of where the back axle can be separated and reattatched to another frame. Be prepared to pull out the checkbook though, because of the high quality job they did, and that noone is currently producing a 3-wheeler of comparable quality (Worksman does, but I believe was aimed more at an industrial market - I think Boeing uses them in their facility - and it weighs a ton) they are still fetching a premium on the used market. Well, nowadays anything with a Schwinn logo that's older than 20 years is fetching a premium on the used market. Hope this helps somewhat, drop me an email if you would like.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh R.S.W. 16 posted by: Nick on 2/20/2001 at 8:49:41 PM
I have just picked a Raleigh R.S.W. 16. The bike has a front and rear light on the fendsers and the wireing goes to the front wheel of the bike. The bike did not come the original front wheel. I was woundering if the bike could of had a dyno hub and if it did are the 28 spoke dyno hubs. Also if anybody has information on raleigh rsw16.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh R.S.W. 16 posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/21/2001 at 4:12:20 PM
The R.S.W. 16 did indeed have a dynohub in the front wheel. This had a Sturmey-Archer Dynohub in a 28 hole drilling hub. The rims are dimpled and are size 16 X 2. These took a all white Dunlop tire. You can use a Raleigh Chopper front tire, these are black with a red stripe. The front rim (wheel) in the R.S.W. is the same as the front rim of the Chopper. The only diffrence is the color of the tire. Of course a Chopper owner will tell you that you have the wrong tire on the bike. The tail light is a cool piece! it cost $15.00 alone and it was an expensive item in it's day. The Raleigh R.S.W. 16 shares the same basic frame with the Raleigh Chopper but the two are diffrent beyond that. I had ran across a shop once that wanted $500.00 for one of these in the Flmenco red color. This was before e-bay. These came in Flamenco red and Bronze green. The motorized version of this is called "The Wisp" or "the Raleigh Wisp" and I would think that the Wisp is the one to watch out for, they didn't make too many of them If you are a fan of the 1960's British T.V. show " The Prisoner" with Patrick Magooan you will see these being rode around "The Village" In the show the bikes were painted in wild colors like metallic yellow and they had cool canopies attached to the bikes. Something Raleigh never offered to the public. This was done by somebody for the show. Magooan later said somewhere that these were "silly little bicycles" The bike is covered in the book "The Dancing Chain" and the out of print "The Raleigh Story" I believe there is mention of it at http://www.Sheldonbrown.com (Sheldon's site) There is a folding model on e-bay right now. The bike was Raleigh's answer to the Moulton bicycle. The low pressure 16 X 2 balloon tires were supposed to make up for the loss of suspension. If you like the R.S.W. you will flip (be very happy with) when you see a Moulton. The new Moultons they are making today are really something else! The headset and bottom bracket bearings in the R.S.W. are the same as the basic Raleigh 3 speed. 25 5/32 size in the top and bottom races in the headset. Bottom bracket bearings are 1/4 size There are 11 on each side. Harris Cyclery(Sheldon Browns site) sells tires but you will have to check and see if they carry a 16 X 2 size tire. The rear shopper bag came in tartan and also in white these are a sought after item. If you have a question I did not already answer you can e-mail me at ChristopherRobin@starmail.com

MISC:   On restoring bikes...longish version posted by: Warren on 2/20/2001 at 6:33:37 PM
The bikes in the cellar have been calling out....I've got some interesting projects on the horizon and have been thinking about this restoration thing a lot. So here goes...I apologize for the bandwidth.

We go through different stages when tackling our bikes. Who hasn't bought an interesting "beater" and thought "Hell, I can have the frame painted black...the fenders white and have it on the road by the weekend!" Sometimes the bike has all it's paint and components. It just needs a polishing and there it is...showroom condition. Not as much fun somehow. The hunt was great but it's a left you a little empty. Once in a blue moon we find that "special" bike...old enough to throw some money at. $600 later you've got the nice paint job, new chrome, NOS parts and there it is...the jewel in the crown. Touch it , clean it, ride it or just stare at it. Sooner or later something else comes along and it gets put in the stable with the rest.

One day you look around the basement and it's a bloody mess. Dozens of old rims, rubber bought on sale just in case you need it. Never mind the bikes themselves. Some in the shed, on the porch, hanging up, at your parents house. Boxes full of bars, stems, brakes, cables,peddles and seats. Now you're outa control. Gotta sell some bikes...throw out the stuff you will NEVER need, (you will throw out stuff you regret). Maybe you sell a few bikes to friends...often at a loss when you look at your time. Ah hell, give a couple away. Throw out that ratty Sports frame cuz you've got three others. Things feel a little more...normal.

Then one day you find a nice lightweight from the 60's. Haven't got any of them! Inhale slowly... swarm the pawn shops, bike stores, thrift shops and the next thing you know you've got more stuff, more bikes than you could ride in a month and your significant other is getting frustrated. But at least you can change a headset , bottom bracket or brakeset in no time flat.

I've gone through dozens of bikes in the last ten years. I'm proud to say it's down to 14 right now. But I'm starting to feel like it's a little more focussed. I'm getting away from 3 speed Sport bikes...with the exception of a couple of Hercs...28" wheeled roadsters and club bikes are where I want to be just now. I'm sure that will change. I've been eyeing a Twenty. I'll try not to repaint a bike again. I've got 5 bikes that are complete and original. Someone had posted their method of deep cleaning and waxing so I tried it out on a couple of oldies...beautiful.

Maybe this will give a little perspective to any newbies...I wouldn't suggest you do things any different from what your heart desires. There are no shortcuts. You've gotta want to do it.

Last thing...this list has made it all come together. Anyone on it is now a "subject matter expert". Gotta like this wired world , wot? Thanks to everyone concerned...especially the folks at VVVintage, Sheldon, Christopher, Clarence, (hey, where the hell did Clarence go...) and all participants.

Gosh, I'm feeling all warm and fuzzy. Think I'll have another rum...get back to my scheduled cleaning. Have you noticed that no matter how crusty those 28 x 1 3/4 Westwood Dunlops are, they still come up shining?

   RE:MISC:   On restoring bikes...longish version posted by BillG on 2/21/2001 at 10:26:30 AM
Excellent post, Warren. I'm sure there are a lot of us who can relate!

(Signed BillG, wishing I could get out of work and get home to start turning wrenches)

   RE:RE:MISC:   On restoring bikes...longish version posted by Gordon on 2/21/2001 at 12:37:39 PM
My wife is waiting for the "get rid of it somehow" stage. I guess she feels 150+ bikes, 200+ wheels and a couple truckloads of "stuff" is excessive. Go figure.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   On restoring bikes...longish version posted by Wings on 2/22/2001 at 10:40:14 PM
I wish I read this 6 years ago!
I wish I had a basement! But I have an upstairs packed full! I don't know wether to be happy or sad especially during electrical storms -- at least they are rare here!
My garage has a few also. Then there are all those sheds I purchased! I love em! But, I think it got out of control. Down to less than 20 -- I should shoot for that goal!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:MISC:   On restoring bikes...longish version posted by Wings on 2/22/2001 at 10:49:01 PM
I had not read your post when I wrote the one above! I stopped counting at 50 bikes but I think I am in the same anumber as you. What made me laugh about your post is the number of wheels! I certainly identify with the wheels! I look out my patio door which has a 24ft by 24ft patio roof and attached to the roof in orderly rows are 16 foot long 3/4 inch pipes (1/2 inch bends too much) all across the patio and hanging on them (on home made 1/4 steel hooks) are many rows of wheels all organized by type. What a sight! It is a beautiful sight and when there is an earthquake they make great music! Should I seek help for this?

   RE:MISC:   On restoring bikes...longish version posted by MIKE~S BIKES on 2/27/2001 at 7:49:28 PM
Warren I Can relate to all of this. I have 400 and then some used bikes and parts of all types and IT IS FUN I think. I been doing it for 6 years THINK OF ME

AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by: Greg Groth on 2/19/2001 at 7:13:57 PM
Thanks for all the help to everyone that has responded. Because of the response, I've gotten my act together and launched my website that I started some 2 years ago. The URL hasn't gone through InterNIC yet, but can be reached at for the time being. I have posted some pics of the bike in question, and welcome your comments. Any help in either identifying the model, or the possible date of manufacture would be greatly appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by sam on 2/20/2001 at 12:48:35 AM
Your site looks like it's going to be great--like your bikes and that Hercules looks good,I'd say it's a keeper!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by Oscar on 2/20/2001 at 6:18:04 AM
The Jaguar looks awesome, too.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by Oscar on 2/20/2001 at 6:27:28 AM
Also, I read that you're a Chicagoan. Glad to see I'm not the only guy around here that tawks funny.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by Albert on 2/20/2001 at 8:23:58 AM
Your Hercules is definatly not a club bike; the frame angles are too slack. Does the frame say where it was made? The frame angles remind me of the German-made roadsters that were sold in the US in the 1950's. I doubt that there is much that is original beyond the frame itself. The flip-flop hub's axel is sized to fit 9mm dropout slots and this is the size found on the German Hercules rather than the 7mm slots found on the British Hercules. Frankly, I am wondering why you are lavishing so much attntion on this machine? There are so many more inherently more desirable "project bikes" around.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by Greg Groth on 2/20/2001 at 11:41:40 AM
Thhanks for the comments on the site. I've got a couple hundred pages of diagrams and teardown procedures for a lot of old hubs and stuff I hope to get posted one day. I also have 30 more bike I have to photograph as well. In response to Albert, I have read the badge and it says:

Hercules Cycle & Motor Co.
Brittania WK Birmingham
The serial number is CT 5196

These are the only identifying marks I can find on the bike. The dropouts appear to be untampered. I would assume if someone were to jam a 9 mm axle in a 7 mm dropout, there would be an indication of stretching the dropout to accomadate the larger axle. That or evidence of someone enlarging the dropout itself. I have seen quite a bit of this done to "trick" bikes where kids would stick a front wheel on their bike where the axle was too large for the fork. I see no evidence of this on the frame. The only reason why I have decided to pester everyone here with this thing, is that it's piqued my curiousity ever since I stumbled accross it. For the past couple years I wouuld post information about it on various forums and get no response. This is the first time I have heard the word "club bike" thrown around, or gotten any response worth anything for that matter. All I've been trying to do is to find out a little bit of the history of the bike. On my last foray to try and figure out what it was, people suggested it was a Raliegh or an AMF. A couple of emails have suggested both that the bike is indeed a club bike, and that there is no way it can be a club bike. From what little I understand about these machines is that they were towards the top of the line at that time. Perhaps to help me solve this mystery someone could enlighten me in regards to English Roadster frame construction. In particular, the bike has scalloped lugs. I have only seen lugwork similar to this on high end bikes made in the states. Schwinn did not use lugged frames until the mid-seventies except for their Paramount framesets. Was this practice common on English Roadsters? Also was it common practice on English Roadsters to use machined hub cones, and spindles. My only experience with parts of this caliber has been Dura-Ace and Campy. Also someone made mention of the fender material - these are steel if that helps in any way. If the bike is nothing special I am willing to live with that, and say "damn, did they know what they were doing!". Many thanks to everyone who has been kind enough to try and shed some light on this "mystery". And thanks Albert, as I was completely unaware that Hercules was manufactured in Germany as well as Brittain.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by Warren on 2/20/2001 at 6:08:53 PM
I have two Birmingham Hercules bikes...one roadster and one road bike from the early 50's. They both have 9 mm slots. I think the thing that makes this bike interesting is the different lives it lived. It started as a VERY slack framed roadster...probably a Hercules multi-speed. At some time , a PO put some very nice club wheels on this bike and probably drop bars...look at the length of the stem. Finally it looks as if it was recreated as a roadster again with wide bars but retaining the long stem and club wheels. As much as "originality" counts on a bike, sometimes the story is just as fascinating. I suggested to Greg he throw as AW on the rear and save the wheels for the right bike. BTW the angle on those early Hercs make for a great laid back ride. They're a couple of degrees slacker than the Sports bikes made by Raleighs and others.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules Update posted by CHRISTOPHERROBIN@STARMAIL.COM on 2/21/2001 at 5:42:19 PM

FOR SALE:   white Raleigh Grips posted by: thetoyking on 2/19/2001 at 2:36:57 PM
I have a decent pair of white grips from Raleigh. They are. Not sure how to describe! Slight bulge in the center. Torpedeo looking! E-mail if interested. Thanks!

FOR SALE:   White Brooks Seat posted by: thetoyking on 2/18/2001 at 3:54:04 PM
I have a decent White Brooks seat for sale. Springs in the back. Red Brooks logo on back. Some wear but pretty decent. Nice for a rider. Not sure what it goes on. $16 shipped in the USA. Please e-mail if interested. Thanks!!!

AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by: Greg Groth on 2/16/2001 at 11:41:18 PM
Still have not been able to determine what I have, but it appears to be something out of the ordinary. From what I remember I was able to determine it was not a Raliegh. Bike is a single speed with a flip-flop rear hub (FW / Fixed). Bike has always intrigued me, I found it in a junk pile in a freinds bike shop. Grabbed it 'cause I was bored, and the rear hub caught my eye. During overhaul, I became more intrigued. Bike has scalloped lugs, and machined cones in the hubs and crank. The wheels, even though they're steel, seem to be of much higher quality than what I would have expected, oval washers on each nipple. Brake lever (the second was missing) was a chrome clamp, with an alloy lever - not all steel. Calipers look similar to Raliegh's. Tire's are Good-Years I think. Everything about the bike just seems to be of a higher quality of what I would expect from a bike of this type. Bike is missing the chainguard. Paint is badly weathered, but I can make out pinstriping on the fenders. Nameplate is brass. Any ideas (year/style/etc.) on what exactly I have stumbled across would be greatly appreciated.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by Warren on 2/17/2001 at 4:21:46 PM
This is a very cool bike. It's likely a club bike...one that pro riders wouldn't necessarily ride but one that enthusiasts would take on fast group rides. They often had 26 x 1 1/4 or 28 X 1 1/4 wheels. Tough to find good rubber for the first and near impossibe for the second. Is it the rear brake lever that's missing? It's a bit of a macho thing with fixed gear riders to not have a rear brake. I'm seeing couriers riding with NO hand brakes on their track bikes in downtown Toronto these days. They pop up the rear wheel and lock the wheel up so they hit the ground skidding. Awe inspiring but I digress.
Take a look at Sheldon Browns personal bikes...the E G Bates bike is an nice example of the higher end of this style of bike. I've got a CCM Road Racer very similar to yours and have a line on another frame in a week or two. Really, your bike is a vintage lightweight and the other list may provide you with even more info. Although many of us live on both sides of the fence...right Christopher, Sam, Art...

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by Greg Groth on 2/18/2001 at 1:37:35 AM
Thanks for the help, I've been trying to figure this one out for some time. The bike is most likely past any kind of restoration, I can't imagine it being worth that much. I have been able to polish it up quite a bit, but the pinstripes are long gone, and there are numerous scratches. The handlebars are very badly corroded, large flakes of chrome came off during cleaning - rust had bubbled it off. The rims are pitted as well. I take it out for a ride now and then, I love how it rides. The front brake was the one that was missing, and I installed a somewhat of a close match for the brake lever, and put on a Raliegh front caliper, so it will at least "look" correct. I do plan on keeping it, as it seems to me to be somewhat of an oddity - at least in Chicago. Does anyone have any idea on how old it might be? Wheel size is 26", and I forgot to mention that there are oil cups on the hubs and crank if this helps at all. Thanks again for the help, it's very much appreciated.

PS, any idea where I might track down a chainguard for it? Doesn't need to be original - a close match to help reatin it's "look" would be fine. For some reason a black painted chrome Wald chainguard doesn't seem to right...

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by Warren on 2/18/2001 at 5:58:00 AM
Take a look at Freds Herc racer at http://fredhaj.tripod.com/herculesracerpage.html. His is very unusual with a flip flop hub and a derailleur. It's likely your bike was made without a chainguard. Finally if the frame is straight, you've got a great resto project. Rims, bars, stems can all be sourced out relatively cheaply...especially in a place like Chicago. Take your time...it will be worth it.

    Misc:How an old Hercules Cycle catalog. posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/18/2001 at 1:42:02 PM
PRESENTING THE WORLD'S FINEST LIGHTWEIGHT BICYCLES....This art catalog illustrates the brilliant colors and finish of these beautiful "easiest-to-ride" machines,styled and streamlined far ahead of all previous designs, to offer you everything you desire in a modern bicycle-appearance, reliability, performance and speed.
PRECISION-engineered for smoothest cycling, and with the world's finest features "in-built" into each machine, Hercules is rated "The Finest Bicycle Built To-day." Individual attention is paid throughout production, in the factory with the worlds largest cycle output, to each individual cycle and componet.

The catalog mentions that the illustrations are as a exact duplication of actual colors used as possible in print.

I'm not certain of the exact year but the Hercules Club bikes were pretty darned good. Beautiful colors, the flip flop hub is shown, and the bike has chrome stays. Hercules was a mini bicycle empire all its own before it was swallowed up by a much larger one, Raleigh.
You may want to someday send this out to a frame painter like Cyclart and show them a catalog photo of your exact machine and ask them to do their magic on it.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/17/2001 at 10:41:37 AM
E-mail for a catalog from this spot in time. It'll explain. These are favorites of mine.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by ChristopherRobin on 2/17/2001 at 10:58:04 AM
Try using Kitt "scratch out" comes in a yellow bottle available at hardware stores, maybe your auto parts store also. It is a creamy white pourable polish that removes oxidation and haze and it made my black fenders shine like new. You really found a cool bike with the flip flop hub and all! You said you grabed it because you were boored. Thats fine, but I grab them because I really love them. If I could be in more than one place at once, I could find more bikes!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Old Hercules posted by sam on 2/17/2001 at 12:11:13 PM
Christopher,In a way you are in more that one place at a time--the knowlage you have shared with us lets us see when your not there.Does the machined cups on this bike indicate Phillips or maybe BSA components?And don't you just love it when a bike is pulled from the scrap pile!---sam

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Superbe posted by: Edward on 2/16/2001 at 8:03:48 AM
I have been reading your discussion area on English roadsters for quite some time now, and have always found it interesting. I am currently restoring a '54 Superbe, and through your and Sheldon's sites have gleaned valuable informatin and contacts. I'm at the point now where I should be able to assemble the whole bike together in a few weeks. I picked up the bike a year ago in a consignment store. Under the three (3) coats of silver paint I could see a AG hub, those funky double lugged brake cables for the Raleigh brake, and a decent frame. The chrome was in bad condition (hence the silver paint, I assume) I got a B66 seat and various bits and pieces from Harris Cyclery, Decals from Nick @ Lloyds, and the rest of th stuff from cruising around junk shops, Sally Ann's, (Salvation Army) and dumpster diving behind old bike shops. I even found an old front drum brake hub, judgeing from the large S and A and small letters from SA stamp, and the condition of the chrome, I estimate it to be pre-war vintage. Inside the hub is stamped LB 103.
Later on in the dicussion area a guy from Texas requested info on the battery back up unit for the dyno-hub. A complicated pdf file was given. I have attempted to download this file, and on the third attempt I recieved a bunch of gobbedly -gook. Could anyone just fax me the info?
I live in Vancouver area code (604) 263 9121
Thanks, Edward

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Superbe posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/16/2001 at 1:31:02 PM
Three coats of silver Paint? Not just one but three? I don't care how bad the chrome plate looks, I just can't stand to hear that this happens to old bikes.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh Superbe posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/16/2001 at 2:00:44 PM
I have diagrams of the brake hub. e-mail me if you need help. ChristopherRobin@starmail.com

FOR SALE:   FS NICE 1951 Rudge Whitworth Sports posted by: Jim on 2/15/2001 at 10:56:53 PM
FS 1951 Rudge Whitworth Sports Original. I will be entertaining offers here on Oldroads until Sat. I know this is not ebay. I would prefer this bike to go to an English enthusiast here, if not it will go to ebay. Frame measures 23 1/4 inches center of BB to top of seat post tube. Nice SHINEY paint. Nice chrome. Nice decals with the exception of some wear to the rear fender decal. Nice Brooks 66 saddle. The chainguard has some minor denting and there is some tape or license residue on the rear fender. I do not believe the pump and saddlebag are original but you never know. Excellent condition for its age. Look it over, ask your questions, and lets make a deal. A photo is available at www.coconutgirls.com/bikeyard/rudge I have more photos available and will take additional photos if requested. I will be posting more English bikes in the near future

   RE:FOR SALE:   FS NICE 1951 Rudge Whitworth Sports posted by Jim on 2/19/2001 at 3:08:08 AM
Rudge has gone to ebay. Check out it and a couple of rod brake bikes.

   RE:RE:FOR SALE:   FS NICE 1951 Rudge Whitworth Sports posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/21/2001 at 4:22:06 PM
This is a complete, well kept, origonal bike in very good shape. If you are in the market for a Rudge then go for it!

Also after hearing about three coats of silver paint over chrome plating it does a lot of good to see a really nice, pristine origonal example. I wish they all looked like this one! This is the way these left the shops only the lamp bracket should be fliped over with the "R" showing.

   RE:RE:RE:FOR SALE:   FS NICE 1951 Rudge Whitworth Sports posted by Jim on 2/22/2001 at 4:52:53 AM
Thanks Christoper Robin. It is a nice bike. I should have flipped the bracket but that was how I recieved the bike so I left it. I also have a nice 58 Raleigh Sports that will be coming available soon. Almost in as nice of shape. It is missing the rear tail light. Is this something that you might have kicking around?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rod brake linkage woes posted by: Brian Hayes on 2/14/2001 at 6:30:00 PM
I rode the DL-1 today in the rain and with the diminished braking performance applied the brakes hard on a modest hill. I wasn't going very fast, but managed to pull both rods out of their sockets. Fortunately, no cars were around, and I was able to weave violently enough to slow down okay. Whew! When I last adjusted these joints, I recall tightening the nuts very tightly, almost on the verge of stripping. A little experimentation later today indicated that I've got to really crank down hard to eliminate slippage under hard braking. I think this is it for me with the bike on rainy days. Has anyone experimented with threadlocker (Loctite, etc.) on these joints? Anyone have any advice?



   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rod brake linkage woes posted by Kevin C. on 2/15/2001 at 5:03:37 AM
Scroll down for a long explanation on how to adjust rod brakes. Still, they don't seem to have much stopping power when wet, so I would stick to a Raleigh Sports or something else with cable brakes in rain or in traffic. DL-1s are nice on bike paths, on country lanes, and maybe on empty, Sunday-morning city streets. Just my opinion.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by: Brian on 2/13/2001 at 7:59:11 PM
I have this paper pouch with 9 round metal pins in it. I don`t know what they are. Can anyone tell me what they are for? I can send a picture of them. Thanks in advance, Brian

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Paul on 2/14/2001 at 4:08:54 AM
Could you measure the pins and post the dimensions? Also, are they plain pins, or reduced at one end with a half piece
ground from the other end?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by ChristopherRobin@starmail.com on 2/14/2001 at 10:14:04 AM
This is a Sturmey-Archer hub part. Either 3 or 4 speed I am not sure without checking but you have some n.o.s. hub parts, I would hang onto them.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Brian on 2/14/2001 at 2:45:08 PM
Paul , the pins measure 1/4 inch wide at the widest point and are 3/4 inch long. They have a ground off end forming a semi-circle and the other end is round but shorter.
Christopher, Thanks for the info. and for the advise. I haven`t torn one of those apart yet, but I have a loose one that is now screaming for an exploratory. These just might be handy. Also are all the pinion pins in a hub the same? If there are more than one part no.per hub, I will trade some of these for some of those.
Thanks you guys, you`re swell cats! Brian

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Jon on 2/14/2001 at 3:47:03 PM
Sounds like the pins (pinion pins) planetary gears in place for AW 3 speed.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Jon on 2/14/2001 at 3:48:07 PM
Correction: Sounds like the pins (pinion pins)that hold the planetary gears in place for AW 3 speed.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Jon on 2/14/2001 at 3:49:40 PM
Correction: Sounds like the(pinion)pins that hold the four planetary gears in place for AW 3 speed.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Jon on 2/14/2001 at 3:51:34 PM
Sorry about the multiple posts, my computer's doing some pretty screwy things tonight.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Paul on 2/18/2001 at 4:33:09 AM
Randy: Thanks for the correction.Cheers.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Paul on 2/15/2001 at 4:05:08 AM
Brian - The AW planet pins are .730" long, .240" diameter,
and reduced at one end ONLY to .185".

The TCW III planet pins are .850" long, .240" diameter,
and reduced at BOTH ends to .185". And one end is ground to
form a semi-circle, as you describe. For once I am unable to
locate my Sutherlands Handbook to confirm your part number,
but from what you describe I would identify your pins as
belonging to the TCW III hub, which was a three speed with
coaster brake. The hubs are fairly common, but new pins, to
the best of my belief, are unobtainable. Given rough
treatment, they can break at the 'semi-circle' end, with
the broken bits causing further havoc to the quickthread
which operates the brake band. I have considered getting
some made up ( it should be easy on an auto-lathe ), but it
would be expensive, and the market would be quite vague,
plus I can't get new brake bands, so there's not much point.

T = ? C = Coaster W = Wide Range (gears).

The TCW gave full braking effort in low gear; less in
second gear, I think; and much less in top gear - when you
needed it most. It was superseded by ... a later model
which gave the same braking effort in each gear.

I'd hang onto four of those pins, at least. You may need
them one day to rebuild such a hub, or swap them for other
rare stuff. I don't think there's any shortage of AW parts.

I wonder if Sturmey Archer users are aware that a nylon
sleeve can be obtained to fit over the right hand axle nut?
The selector chain is threaded through it. Its function is
to protect the the selector chain from damage if the bike
falls on its side. A damaged selector chain makes gear
selection difficult to impossible. For one dollar or so,it's
a good investment. Regards, Paul.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   HSA.293 Pinion Pin in paper pouch marked Raleigh, England posted by Randy on 2/17/2001 at 8:43:53 AM
TCW Mk III pinion pin was HSA 170. HSA 293 are pinion pins for an S3C. Sorry about the late reply, I only check the board occasionally these days.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by: Bob on 2/13/2001 at 12:59:01 AM
I have just acquired a 1974 Raleigh Sports, green with gold pinstripes. It has several unusual features. It has a cable brake on the front wheel and a Sturmey Archer coaster brake in the SA 3-speed hub on the rear wheel. Also, the decal on the seat tube near the bottom says "Made in England" and then below that "Assembled in the U.S.A." Several questions: why did raleigh make a sports with half cable and half coaster brakes? why were these bikes manufactured in england but shipped to the U.S. for assembly? was this particular example raleigh sports made in large numbers? Anyone know anything about this type bike? Anyone own and ride one and have comments. Thanks for any information and comments. Also, what has the last year Raleigh manufactured the Sports model?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by Jon on 2/14/2001 at 4:03:03 PM
The front brake on the S3C Sports was to ensure adequate stopping power. My experience with the S3C was that the rear brake alone was insufficient for stopping at higher speeds and the front brake was to be used as a assist. I believe the "Assembled in U.S.A." was a truth in advertising thing. They could fit more bikes in a shipping container if they were broken down more and shipping costs would be less per bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by Jon on 2/14/2001 at 6:44:41 PM
In the shop I worked at during the mid 70's we probably sold 1 S3C coasterbrake Sports for every 7 dual handbrake Sports. They were more expensive.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by Fred on 2/15/2001 at 4:03:15 AM
Could it be that Raleigh determined that many die hard American buyers would not use a bike without coaster brakes. I find that a great number of older people in the U.S. insist on having the coaster brakes they grew up with. I have one Sports with this setup and rarely use the coaster brake. When selling a bike, I always try to convince the buyer that hand brakes are much safer than coaster brakes and also allow the rider to position the pedals for holding the bike in place and for getting under way safely and efficiently. To date, I'm not sure I've changed anyone's mind.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by Jon on 2/15/2001 at 5:48:24 PM
There's no doubt that Raleigh thought the 3 speed coaster brake would sell in the U.S. But at $30-40 more, I didn't have to talk too many people into trying the AW model. (And I believe the profit margin was actually smaller on the S3C.)

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by phil on 2/16/2001 at 7:10:10 AM
Few years ago I picked up a 51 or so Ladies Sports with S3C hub for my wife to ride on occassion. I added a rear hand brake just to be on the safe (safer?) side. Now with three brakes you'd think she be alright, right? She is so "mechanically challenged" we're still lucky if she stops at all.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by Jon on 2/16/2001 at 3:30:37 PM
A little tip for the little lady: Make sure the front brake cable is just slightly looser than the rear. If she has a tendency to pull both hand brakes evenly, like most of us, in a hard stop the rear wheel brake will grab first followed by the front. This can help to prevent a loss of control in front, especially on loose gravel. Remember also that the rear brake cable is longer and it and the cable housing both flex more than the front when applied. The front brake has a much firmer stop than the rear because of the short cable.

FOR SALE:   57' Raleigh Tourist posted by: chip on 2/12/2001 at 11:15:30 PM
The tourist has the 28" wheels.It also has the rack in back,the tire pump, and it has the built in locking device with the key for the back tire.The brookes saddle has a tool pouch with tools in it hanging off the back of it.It has the totally enclosed chainguard.the date stamped on the back hub is 57.It has the brake rods instead of cables.email me for pictures and price. Thanks

AGE / VALUE:   Aristocrat posted by: Nick on 2/12/2001 at 11:12:33 AM
I have just come across a very intresting bike. The head badge says Made in Holland by Bayavus Designed by Scheuer New York. And there is the name Aristocrat also printed on the head badge. The frame has who small bars starting at the top of the head toub and running the length of the bike all of the way back to the rear dropout and there is a larger bar under the two top bars and this just runs to the seat toub. The bike has a 3 speed SW Sturmy Archur dated 58. 26" light weight wheels and chrome british type fenders. Britias style peddle crand and hanle bars. The word aristocrat is printed on several places on the bike and the front fork has a little caveman printed on each side of it. I have never seen or hurd of an Aristocrat bike or bike company. I would like to find out more about the bike and value and where i can find more information about the bike.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Aristocrat posted by Jacob on 2/13/2001 at 3:23:36 AM
Batavus is still going strong. The dutch factory make high quality roadster-type bikes with internal gears, hub-brakes and often also a hub-generator. In Denmark, where I live, there is a lot of Batavus on the roads. This bike - like the Raleigh Tourist de Luxe (which is still sold here) - appeals mainly to more mature cyclists. The Raleigh is the traditionally market-leader in this segment, but it seems that Batavus is getting a bigger piece of the cake these days.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Aristocrat-Could be Batavus posted by GL on 2/12/2001 at 2:57:19 PM
Batavus was a big maker of bicycles and Mopeds in Holland. They may still be for all I know. They definitely sold Mopeds in the US in the 60's.

Designed by Scheuer New York sounds like the kind of thing they would put on bikes if they got a big order for a store brand or house brand. You have probably seen the same thing on department store clothing:" Made Exclusively for Bon Ton Department Store" etc.

The frame you describe is a typical "mixte" frame, a popular design in Europe made by many manufacturers. It was so called because it could be used equally by either sex.

You might try a Google search for Batavus.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Aristocrat posted by Brian Hayes on 2/12/2001 at 6:42:42 PM
The SW hub is nice find on this bike if it's working properly. This hub has delicate internals that were often troublesome, but it operates almost silenty and smoothly when working well. Search on the archives for discussion of this hub. If it's not working, I might be able to offer some pointers to get it working. I ride a '58 Robin Hood most of the time on my in-town commutes, and find the SW a lot of fun.