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Archived: English Roadsters

FOR SALE:   1952 Raleigh Sports posted by: Tom Clough on 4/9/2001 at 4:48:28 AM
I am selling my 1952 Raleigh Sports bicycle, which I've owned since I purchased it as a 12 yr. old. See the details on eBay 1131908159. It is excellent condition with everything original except for handlebar grips and tires. And the 3-speed needs some minor adjusting. I can email prospective buyers 10 additional pictures to those on eBay if they are requested. Auction ends April 13th @ 5:24pm, Central time.

MISC:   52 Raleigh Sport posted by: Bruce on 4/8/2001 at 6:45:22 PM
There is a nice looking 52 Raleigh Sport on ebay right now. I'm looking for a leather toolbag for my bike if anyone has one for sale. Thanks Bruce

AGE / VALUE:   Spokes posted by: Walt on 4/8/2001 at 6:27:09 PM
Thanks Tim, that is a great sight for decals. I didn't even know it existed. I am still curious and in need of information about the spokes. Anybody know the spoke size for the Sport/Superbe. Thanks.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spokes posted by Christopherrobin2@starmail.com on 4/9/2001 at 8:23:24 AM
I'll look it up, stay tuned

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spokes posted by Randy on 4/12/2001 at 4:44:58 PM
Walt, the Raleigh spoke chart says:

For 26x1-3/8 Raleigh pattern rim, Sports front hub, 11-7/32" cross-3 15 gage plain
For 26x1-3/8 Raleigh pattern rim, AW rear hub, 11-1/16" X4 14ga plain
For 26x1-3/8 Endrick rim, Sports front hub, 11-1/4" X3 15ga plain
For 26x1-3/8 Endrick rim, AW rear hub, 11-5/32" X4 14ga plain

If you have a Dynohub it gets more involved...

At the risk of incurring wrath, I'll mention my webpage again with scans of the spoke chart and a transcription of the Raleigh wheel lacing book (including Dynohub wheel building):

http://www.rickadee.net/'zephyrus (the ' is a tilde)

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spokes posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/12/2001 at 5:27:34 PM
Randy covered it with his posting and his page. I can send you a xerox copy of the sheet if you want.
Thanks Randy!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Spokes posted by Walt on 4/12/2001 at 6:19:22 PM
Thanks for the website and the information. Looking at your Roadster convinces me what I will try to find next after I get the Superbe done. Thanks again.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Threading Pitch posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/8/2001 at 9:49:36 AM
There is a sheet telling the threading pitch for the various Raleigh bolts used on the bikes. E-mail me your postal address for a free copy ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh posted by: Walt on 4/7/2001 at 3:33:18 PM
Is there a source for Raleigh decals. Also, what size spokes did Raleigh Superbe and Sport bikes use. I know Raleigh made everything and I was wondering if there is a problem replacing spokes or relacing wheels. Thanks

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh posted by Tim on 4/7/2001 at 5:32:42 PM
Try http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepges/NICK_AT_LLOYDS/NEWS.htm This is where I get my decals from in the UK.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh posted by Tim on 4/7/2001 at 5:38:17 PM
Sorry, should be http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/NICK_AT_LLOYDS/BIKEBITS.htm

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Falcon "Ernie Clements" for Sale posted by: Mike Norton on 4/7/2001 at 5:33:16 AM
A Falcon Special from the late 1970s. The original orange paintwork, as well as the entire bike, in mint condition. It has Suntour GT/Allegro, Weinmann 750 brakes, the original Brooks leather saddle, 27 x 1 1/4 wheels. The nameplate says the bike was designed by Ernie Clements. Located in Cheshire UK.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Falcon posted by MichaelW on 4/8/2001 at 5:02:22 PM
I have a Falcon Majorca late 70's designed by Earnie. I think he was a racer of the 1960's. I paid £127.0 new for mine.
They were kind of mid-range and used to make some nice bikes till the label was bought out, but nothing really collectable.

MISC:   Date for BSA Chainwheel? posted by: Rolf on 4/7/2001 at 2:59:12 AM
Can anyone help me to date a BSA chainwheel ? It is a five pin chainwheel for 1 in pitch, skip link, chain. The chainwheel does not have BSA lettering in its pattern but it does carry the BSA name and symbol. The outer face of the wheel has the number Rd 310844 and the inner face carries the name DEPOSE and the number DRCM 102738. The chainwheel is from a fixed wheel bike that has been restored and is currently being reassembled. Dating the chainwheel would give me some idea as to the age of the bike. I suspect that it may be from about 1910 or the 1920s. The parts include Bayliss-Wiley bottom bracket axle. Dunlop Welch 28x1 1/2 rims and a Philco centrepull brake. Most of the other components are Brampton.

   RE:MISC:   Date for BSA Chainwheel? posted by Sheldon Brown on 4/7/2001 at 8:43:28 AM
For all I know it might be that old, BSA goes way back. It is certainly from before WW2.

"Depose" is French for "registered" or "patented."

I believe that the "DRCM" refers to a German patent, with the "DR" standing for Deutches Reich, i.e. German Empire.

Sheldon Brown

   RE:MISC:   Date for BSA Chainwheel? posted by Warren on 4/7/2001 at 6:26:31 PM
Funny I was looking at a vintage track bike with a BSA crankset today...5 bolt but it did have BSA lettering. It too. was inch pitch. The track bike was a Toronto made 6 day racer from the twenties. This just confirms Sheldon's post that it could be quite old. Tell me though...how does the Philco brake engage the Dunlop "Welsh" rims? Are they Endrick-style, as opposed to Westwood? Or is it possible that the rims are 28 x 1 1/4, which are scarce.

   RE:MISC:   Date for BSA Chainwheel? posted by Rolf on 4/8/2001 at 3:48:12 AM
How does a Philco brake engage a Dunlop Welch rim? "Very carefully". These rims are 28x1 1/2. There is a small plate riveted to the rim with the name and size on it. The rims are very light and have a profile similar to Westwood rims with a curved sidewall. They are also painted rather than plated. Therefore, the caliper brake is an uncomfortable fit in engineering terms. It may have been an afterthought as the the frame looks to my untrained eye to be a 1920s, or before, racing frame and, being a fixed wheel, the brake may simply have been to help to ride the bike to the track and back. The Philco brake may not be original but it was on the bike when my sister-in -law bought it about 25 years ago. The bike is from Sydney, Australia and it has "Major Taylor" handelbars, so it is probably post 1902-03 when Major Taylor first came to Australia and caused such a sensation amoung the bicycle racing fraternity here. Any other clues to its age would be most welcome. The saddle is a "Greyhound 244" model made by The ????? Saddle Co Ltd of Birmingham. Does anyone know which firm this is? The saddle looks very similar in design to my new Brooks Professional.

MISC:   Swap Meet April 8, Swansea, MA posted by: Joe on 4/6/2001 at 7:49:23 PM
Sunday is going to be a nice day in the 50's plus. Check out our Spring swap meet. It is Free to vendors and the public, indoor and outdoor. Push, pull or drag it to the show. We want to kick the spring off with a great start. Email me for information. Email everyone you know... Don't miss it....

AGE / VALUE:   Swap Meet April 8, Swansea, MA posted by: Joe on 4/6/2001 at 7:49:23 PM
Sunday is going to be a nice day in the 50's plus. Check out our Spring swap meet. It is Free to vendors and the public, indoor and outdoor. Push, pull or drag it to the show. We want to kick the spring off with a great start. Email me for information. Email everyone you know... Don't miss it....

AGE / VALUE:   Rudge & Whitworth posted by: Gérard on 4/4/2001 at 12:30:47 PM
I am working now on a Rudge & Whitworth and I would like to date him.It has rod brakes and a SA 3 speed with Dynohub. The frame number is S2249BT and on the the SA hub there is a number (year?) 3 5 .
The Dynohub is not working, any idea on the problem?
Where could I find brake pads here in Europe?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge & Whitworth posted by Kevin C. on 4/4/2001 at 3:39:15 PM
If he can't find them in Europe, we're all in trouble.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge & Whitworth posted by Bill Putnam on 4/6/2001 at 12:34:56 PM

Although I don't know of European suppliers,
Harris Cyclery carries brake pads for rod brake bikes:

For your Dynohub there are several things to check.
First is wiring, bulbs, and contacts. Use an ohmeter
to verify that there is continuity in the bulbs. Next
check to make sure that there is no resistance
in the wiring from the terminals on the dynohub to the
contacts for the bulbs. If this all checks out, measure
for continuity across the dynohub terminals-if there is
an open circuit then the windings or connection to the
windings have failed. The easiest way to address that
problem is with a new armature (available from VVVintage).
Another problem that you may have is if someone removed
the armature from the magnet without a keeper ring in
the magnet, this can demagnetize the magnet. A rough
indication of this is no "cogging" action from the magnet
as you turn the wheel slowly. I am at present building a
dynohub magnet remagnetizer so in a few months could help
you with that.

The 1956 Sturmey Archer Manual is available on line for
free at http://www.hadland.net/
navigate to cycle history & technology, then How to
repair old Sturmey-Archer hubs. I encourage you to
review the manual.

Modern halogen bulbs suited to the dynohub are available
from Reflectalite-the GH107 is the model to use unless
you have a modern headlamp (with push in base) which is
the GH105. This gives a much brighter light than the
original vacuum bulbs. Reflectalite has a site at

If you do find your magnet has been demagnetized, drop
me an e mail, although with shipping this might not be
as inexpensive as other options. (I live in the USA)

Check the marking on your hub again, they are date stamped.
Early models, from 1936 through 1939, had only the last
digit of the year stamped. I have a 1939 3 speed that
reads AW 9. If the hub is an AW, I would suspect it to
be March (3) of some year in the 1950's (5?). Of course,
if it's an older hub than this then you can check the
Harris cyclery site for a listing of all the old hubs and
go from there.

Bill Putnam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge & Whitworth posted by MichaelW on 4/8/2001 at 5:05:37 PM
Fibrax is probably the company to look for. They make brake pads for all sorts.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Rudge & Whitworth posted by Gérard on 4/19/2001 at 12:54:12 PM
Thank you for your help Bill !
I could date the bike, it is 1953 !
I have checked the dynohub but I have only small impulses on my ohmmeter.
The bike is equipped with a Terry saddle, any idea if it is a genuine part?

AGE / VALUE:   Interesting rod brakes on ebay posted by: sam on 4/4/2001 at 9:32:01 AM
Seems there are several rod brake bikes on ebay right now,the most interesting to me is the Phillips motor bike(with out a motor)#1130511200.This one is odd!---sam

MISC:   Saw this on alt.collecting.bicycles posted by: Greg Groth on 4/3/2001 at 9:32:35 PM
Got this on my news server, have no idea of it's authenticity, and thought I'd pass it on to anyone that might be interested:

From: "Richard Williams"
Newsgroups: alt.collecting.bicycles
Subject: 50 yr old bikes - free to collector.
Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 17:12:14 +0100

Hi - a friend of mine has a 1948 Raleigh bike with Sturmey Archer 3-speed
gears and a lady's Dawes 1951 model bike he is about to throw out unless
anyone wants them. If anyone's interested, give me your telephone number and
I'll pass it on to him. (Gloucester/Cheltenham area of UK.)
Dick Williams
in Cheltenham, Glos, UK

AGE / VALUE:   squeaky brakes posted by: Bob on 4/3/2001 at 8:03:08 PM
What are the chief causes of a badly squeaking caliper brake on a vintage Raleigh? Is it the rim, which is clean and in good condition? Or is it the brake pads? Thanks for anybody's expertise?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   squeaky brakes posted by Kevin C. on 4/4/2001 at 9:23:04 AM
If the brake pads are getting dried out, that can cause squeaks. Also, there seems to be a difference in quality. The cheaper rod-brake pads squeak but the good ones don't, at least on my DL-1.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   squeaky brakes posted by Randy on 4/4/2001 at 11:31:25 AM
Check the toe-in of the brakepads, Bob. Assuming that you're talking about steel caliper arms, they were more flexible laterally than the recent aluminum ones, letting the pads twist when pressure is applied. Apply the brake just enough for the pad to start contacting the rim. The trailing edge of the pad should have a good 1/16" clearance from the rim when the leading edge just touches. Judicious application of a crescent wrench as a lever to twist the brakearm just above the pad mounting surface is what I've used.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   squeaky brakes posted by Jon on 4/4/2001 at 4:51:48 PM
Also,if the braking surface has a hard glazed appearance, knock it off with 220 git sandpaper on a wood block.

AGE / VALUE:   Strange old Dunelt roadster posted by: Geoff Rogers on 4/2/2001 at 7:26:51 PM
I just picked up another odd old Dunelt (earlier this year, I bought a prewar boy's single-speed with coaster brake rear and rod rim brake front, then found a '65 3-speed lady's Sports model (not as odd)). This one has 28" wheels, rod brakes, SA 3-speed hub dated 12-65, chrome fenders (which appear original, with the Dunelt long, flattened chrome tip; chrome on chrome--how gauche!), Brooks 3-coil-spring saddle, and a long "hockey stick' chainguard. It's clearly Raleigh-built, and looks mid-sixties to me, as there are no oilcup on the BB or clip on the front hub. Seat tubes are bolt-on, cranks are oval cross-section type. The really odd thing about this machine, though, is the handlebars. They appear to be prewar type (not North Road style, which curve forwards), sweeping straight back. Apart from those and the chrome fenders, it looks like a DL-1 clone. It rides like a dream, I must say! The PO brazed on a larger rear sprocket (really) so it's geared pretty low, giving a stately, comfortable ride. I have a DL-1, but it's in a lot of pieces. The new Dunelt is in pretty fair shape overall, although the front wheel has been rusty and brazed up, so I could use one in case anybody has a spare. Most decals are gone or worn, but the DT "DUNELT" letters are ok and the head badge is good. It's not a fine as my little prewar bike's badge, though.
Has anyone ever heard of a big Dunelt like this one? How about those strange handlebars (they're kinda ugly; give me North Roads any day)? And, just to be like everyone else, what's it worth?
Geoff Rogers

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange old Dunelt roadster posted by Brian Hayes on 4/2/2001 at 8:51:48 PM
I'm confused. I thought the North Road style handlebars are what's allways on a Sports (except later models which used the "all-rounder" style). The handlebars you describe sound just like every DL-1 I've ever seen or heard of: grips go almost straight back.

Look at Sheldon's info on these features:

BTW, does anyone have any comments on the "all-rounder" style? I have one mounted on a Sports and have grown rather fond of the hand position - sorta a cross between modern comfort bike handlebars and the North Road style.


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange old Dunelt roadster posted by Paul MN on 4/3/2001 at 8:16:55 AM
Ive owned a 1966 version of this bicycle for over twenty years. It's a favorite that Ive got thousands of miles on. Your discription sounds stock. I also have a three spring saddle but its a Wright (about the same as Brooks). Im 180 lbs and the rear springs have broken and been replaced twice. The handlebars give me a narower, more linear, gentlemanly ride. Ive converted more then a few cyclists to big wheel, rod brake bikes after they tried my Dunelt. Perhaps once you get used to the bars you will appreciate their grace. But these bars are not as suitable for climbing steeper hills as your DL-1s. The bars on the Dunelt are the same pattern as my 1946 Raleigh and 1955 Humber, also 28inch wheel rod brake. Those oval section cranks are seven inches long and really help cover ground. In the early eighties Raleigh DL-1 switched from 7" to 6 1/2". The cast D section fork crown is stronger than the round tube crown of Raleigh. Every once in a while I hear of other Dunelts around but never see any. I couldnt imagine selling mine. Your very lucky to have come across one. If you dont fall in love with it someone else would like the opportunity and pay more than for a DL-1. Happy trails.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Strange Old Dunelt Handlebars posted by Warren on 4/3/2001 at 6:28:28 PM
Nice bike...just when I think I've seen all the models of bars, three more will show up in a week. I think I've got about half a dozen types of roadster bars, four or five North Road bars and who knows how many drop bars I've seen on lightweights. Every manufacturer appears to have made variations on a theme. Makes for interesting collecting.

   Raleigh Tubular Fork question posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/7/2001 at 11:14:05 AM
I had a steer tube replaced recently on a Humber bike(Raleigh) They took the tube out of a Raleigh fork and put it in a Humber fork. (The double bladed bifrubicated type) The guy told me "You can't replace a steer tube in a Raleigh fork because you ruin the tubular fork while heating and that you can't do it with Raleigh's tubular fork and that if it was a Raleigh and not a Humber then I would be out of luck. I would have had to find a replacement fork, another Raleigh fork. My question is, Is the Dunelt fork with the D tubing strong enough to withstand a framebuilder heating it to replace a steer tube? Is it able to withstand the heat? When would anybody ever have to do this type of sugery anyway? Not ever unless you get a Dunelt fork that has been bent by a heavy pervious owner or if like I said you have run into headset threading damage. It was interesting to learn that you cannot switch steer tubes on a Raleigh with the tubular fork crown. People run into trouble because Raleighs had their own 26 T.P.I. threading pitch and finding headset parts is difficult as it is is no longer made. Raleigh switched to 24 some time ago, but most of the Raleigh's we mention here have this old 26 T.P.I. headsets. It is easier to find a set of Raleigh's old style headsets then to find a replacement fork. I was sorry to hear that you can't switch tubes on a Raleigh fork. But then again I would think a good framebuilder could fabricate the whole tubular fork if he/ she had to. This stuff is not that hard to find. The Dunelt fork with the D is cool! they used this fork crown on both the 26 inch and the 28 inch bicycles. Of course the larger 28 inch wheel Dunelt models is worth more. Save old junk forks for the tubing. You never know when you may have the frame builder guy ask you Do you have another fork to donate as I do not have tubing in stock for this. Good thing I did .

   Raleigh- Dunelt fork crown decorative caps BEWARE! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/7/2001 at 11:25:00 AM
The chrome inserts that the Dunelt has in the fork is far, far more impossible to remove and replace then the Raleigh type with the thimble fork crown. Look at it and don't try to remove these. Don't even dream of finding these, and I would suggest carefully painting around these fork crowns. These are pressed in more tightly than the Raleigh ones. Only very rarely can you take a thin screw driver and prise out the Raleigh fork thimble crowns. They (Raleigh) had a special cool little tool to pop these in. These bend, scratch, and turn blue when heat is applied.

   RE:Raleigh- Dunelt fork crown decorative caps BEWARE! posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 4/7/2001 at 11:39:21 AM
I recently picked up four sets of these Raleigh thimble crowns. I sat there stunned that I finally found some of these. Seller said" What is it? thats all junk? I looked at him and knew he never has restored/repainted an old Raleigh. These do not have as lovely a shiny chrome finish like in/on my '52 Record Ace but they will do and they are mint. These do not withstand re-chroming and Im not going to rist damaging these, they are good enough. I poped these in the fork and sat there just looking at it. Perfection, satisfaction, a lenghty job completed at last.

   RE:Raleigh- Dunelt fork crown decorative caps BEWARE! posted by Geoff Rogers on 4/8/2001 at 8:05:59 PM
Sadly, I have no spares for the Dunelts at this time (yet!) but at the current rate of accretion in my garage, I may find some! In fact, I am looking for a few pieces myself: a decent 28" front wheel (preferable the later, inferior type hub with no cool oil clip) and a pair of 50's style pedals from a Phillips (e.g., Anti-Raleigh).
As to the fork chrome covers, all I can say is, golly. It's a little embarrassing in light of your post, but, as the 28" Dunelt was missing one and the much-less-desirable 26" lady's Dunelt Sports wasn't, I tried to remove one with my trusty Swiss Army knife, and much to my amazement, out it popped! (I had not yet read how difficult it is, although I have tried--and failed--with Raleigh ones several times). Probably a fluke, but at least we now know it's possible--at least once in a while.
I just found a source for cheap old English bikes, so I will search for a nasty old Dunelt to donate its fork bits.
By the way, I have decided that I not only like this huge bike, I love it! It's an absolute hoot to ride, even though the rod brakes are, well, not exactly state of the art. It is really a DL-1, but nobody knows that. The chrome fenders are tacky, though, I have to admit.
The saddle, previously reported as a Brooks, may in fact be a Wrights; the previous owner recovered it himself, doing a neat job with two layers of brown leather, rivetted on with nice copper rivets, but sadly, he failed to retain the original seat badge.
Tomorrow, I ride the big Dun to work (at least part way)!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Revolutionary new bicycle tool from ShelBroCo! posted by: Sheldon Brown on 4/1/2001 at 8:16:38 AM
It is well known that it is absolutely impossible to do any bicycle repair more complicated than oiling the chain without a torque wrench.

Unfortunately, the old-fashioned torque wrenches available in the past have been useless by themselves, requiring an expensive set of ratchet socket wrenches to make them work. Not so with the revolutionary TORK-GRIP Universal Torque Wrench! Fully compatible with S.A.E., Metric, Whitworth systems!

Read all about it at http://sheldonbrown.com/tork-grip.html

Another fine ShelBroCo product!

Sheldon "Essential Tools" Brown
| You can fool some of the people all of the time, |    
| and those are the ones we're after! --Anon. |

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Revolutionary new bicycle tool from ShelBroCo! posted by Wings on 4/2/2001 at 4:07:51 PM
Yep, I bought one of those on Ebay. Still trying to locate a manual for it.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Revolutionary new bicycle tool from ShelBroCo! posted by Don Hanf on 4/4/2001 at 6:04:17 PM
Many thanks for the smiles Sheldon!