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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Hey Raleigh Guys... posted by: Adam on 8/13/2001 at 8:02:40 PM
I have a '72 Raleigh Sports (men's frame 3spd) that I picked up about two months ago to be a rider. Problem is... I haven't ridden it much and it's pretty much just sitting. If someone out there might appreciate the bike and could pick it up, I would pass it on for the $10 that I paid for it. I am directly between Chicago and Milwaukee on the map (in the very N.E. corner of Illinois). It's far from pristine- but not junk- needs some cleaning and a maintenance catch-up. I hate to see it just sitting here if anyone local might be a Raleigh nut! Let me know.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Hey Raleigh Guys... posted by Adam on 8/14/2001 at 4:40:00 PM
Have a taker for the bike. Thankyou to all who e-mailed!

AGE / VALUE:   ANY INFORMATION posted by: Bob on 8/13/2001 at 6:58:32 PM
While recently doing some "house cleaning" in preparation for an auction I came across an old bike of mine that I'd forgotten I'd ever had. I believe it's a 1950s vintage Schwinn Racer. It carries the serial #H060752, and has a Sturmey-Archer AW 3 spd hub. I was the second owner of the bike and only rode it probably two years or so. The bike is in excellent condition, other than being dusty from hanging in the garage all these years out on the farm. I'd like to get a feel for what it might be worth--any help? Thanks, in advance. This e-mail address will only be good for two more days as my son is taking the computer off to college with him!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   ANY INFORMATION posted by Bob on 8/21/2001 at 7:03:14 PM
So far no one has replied to my query for information. Sorry if I asked the "wrong question" or posted to the "wroing place". If that be the case, would someone please suggest where I might go to find the information I'm seeking?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Armstong Moth posted by: Martin H on 8/13/2001 at 4:35:07 PM
Hello all,

Looking for info on an old Armstrong Moth (road, touring, club ?) bike made in Birmingham, England. It has GB Sport side pull brakes, Atom hubs, rear flip-flop hub. I suspect that many of the components are not original. Looking for any info about this bike, including approximate age (I am thinking it is from the 1950’s), and original set-up and components. I have many pictures of the bike at:
Thank you!

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Armstong Moth posted by Martin H. on 8/13/2001 at 4:47:22 PM
There should be a tidle in front of hanczyc in the web site address - it is did not translate in the posted message.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Armstong Moth posted by Sheldon Brown on 8/13/2001 at 7:28:04 PM
Tres cool!

That's a beauty, probably '50s vintage. The braze-on on the right chainstay is for an old-style Cyclo derailer, the kind that used a screen-door spring. Lots of old Rene Herses use this system.

The wheels are certainly not original; a Brit bike of this vintage would have had 32/40 spoking, not the 36, and would not have had QR hubs. The brakes probably are original. I'm a bit skeptical about the Stronglight crank, too.

It's a bit strange that it has such simple head lugs with the ornate bottom bracket shell.

Sheldon "The DeHavilland 'Moth' Was A Popular British Aeroplane" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts

AGE / VALUE:   Any Information posted by: Bob Peet on 8/13/2001 at 12:25:02 PM
Inheirited a Phillips English Racer 3 sp. w/ number on bottom of
24802YA. Would like an idea of worth. In fair condition.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Any Information posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/13/2001 at 12:35:36 PM
If you could tell us a bit more about it, please. What size wheels? 26,27 or 28. Cable or rod brakes, what color? Does the badge in front say Birmingham(origonal Phillips) or Nottingham? (Raleigh made Phillips after they merged) What shape is it in? What year is on the rear hub? Does it have a rack, bell, lights?
It is almost worthless if somebody took a paintbrush and housepaint to it. I hope yours is origonal.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Any Information posted by Albert on 8/13/2001 at 3:34:25 PM
I haven't heard the expression "English racer" in many !years! Mr. Peet in respect and honor to the deceased, why don't you use the machine? I'm sure that you will soon come to treasure it riding qualities. While I'm sure that your interest in its value does not come from a desire to sell what was lovingly left to you, I would say that in all likelyhood your Phillips is worth about $25.

AGE / VALUE:   Sturmey Archer gears posted by: Peter on 8/13/2001 at 6:11:50 AM
Just wanted to draw the group's attention to Tony Hadland's website - http://www.hadland.net/ - where Tony has added six .pdf files of the most detailed technical information on Sturmey Archer gears. Be patient while they download its a goldmine.

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: me on 8/12/2001 at 8:48:26 PM
Does anyone have a 23in. 70's Concord, Raliegh, nashiki, or Soma 10 speed they would like to sell. i may be interested

AGE / VALUE:    posted by: lo on 8/12/2001 at 8:46:28 PM
does anyone have a 23 in. 70's Concord, Raliegh, Nashiki, or soma they would like to sell? I might be interested

AGE / VALUE:   Please don't home paint your bike! posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/12/2001 at 11:42:29 AM
E-bay item #1177860944 Old Phillips gentleman's bike.

They painted it,sloped it all up with gold spray paint. It's all over the chrome and everything. Why would somebody do this? I wonder if a bike has been stolen when I see this. Do other folks wonder this when they see it? People just decide to do this to bikes and it drives me looney! Phillips had nice finishes too.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Please don't home paint your bike! posted by Mark R on 8/12/2001 at 6:39:19 PM
Yeah, I see people with bikes like this, all painted even the tires, and you just know it was stolen(not to assume THIS person stole this particular bike though). This Phillips could be saved, but what a lot of work.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Please don't home paint your bike! posted by Fred on 8/13/2001 at 8:22:28 AM
I see this a lot. I bought a DL-1 in Florida last winter that had been sprayed all over with black paint. I mean all over, even the spokes and chain, everything. It's a shame because it rides so nicely.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Please don't home paint your bike! posted by Sheldon Brown on 8/13/2001 at 7:17:24 PM
Oh-oh! Better not look at http://sheldonbrown.com/robinhood.html

Sheldon "Camouflage" Brown
Newtonville, Massachusetts

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:If you're a good artist, go ahead posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/14/2001 at 6:56:36 AM
What Sheldon did with the old Robin Hood was artistic and cool! I enjoyed the page and the bike has more than one color on it. I guess if it was already painted, it's ok then. The purist, keep it origonal side of me is at war with the artistic, creative side. I never see painted bikes made into rolling art they just slop it all over even chrome and just one so- so color too. I love the origonal finishes and colors and decals on these bikes.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tire change posted by: Art on 8/11/2001 at 12:46:21 PM
Sorry if this is a stupid or obvious question.
I've never changed a tire on a rod braked bike before. The brake pads are in the way of the wheel sliding out. What is the smartest way to to get the pads out of the way with the minimum amount of readjusting the linkage?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tire change posted by Ben on 8/12/2001 at 8:23:48 AM
I just assembled one of these for the first time, and have the same question. I ended up passing the rim through sideways a little, but in retrospect, it would have been easier to take one brake pad off. Also I did slacken and move one of the fork mounted guides.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tire change posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/12/2001 at 11:36:22 AM
I would leave these guides alone and just remove and replace the pads.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: Tire change posted by Art on 8/12/2001 at 2:01:12 PM
Thanks gentlemen. I removed one pad in front, both in back. Wheels slipped out. Replaced tubes with heavy duty ones. Put it all back. Brakes and shifts great. I knew there had to be an easy way, I just couldn't see it.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Tire change posted by Mark R. on 8/12/2001 at 6:44:05 PM
I usually just loosen the wheel, and then just slide the brake yoke out of the guides, one side at a time.Then you can pull the tire out past the shoes because the yoke flexes quite a bit. Then when the flat is fixed, or what ever, I just pop the yoke back in the guides and then retighten the wheel, and bang, job done!

AGE / VALUE:   Humber on ebay posted by: sam on 8/10/2001 at 9:00:05 PM
No kin,not mine,etc--Well enough said.One of the best bikes I've seen on ebay in a long time #1177309022.It's a cable brake 26" mans humber with a long list of goodys.Going for $25 as of now!----sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Humber on ebay posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/12/2001 at 11:37:36 AM
Origonal paper literature showing the other models too!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   CCM Hubs posted by: Tom on 8/9/2001 at 9:09:27 PM
Does anyone know how to tell what year a CCM single speed coaster brake hub is. I have about 10 different CCM 1937 or "37" hubs. Some have Patent numbers. Does anyone have old literature on CCM bikes from the 40's. Thanks

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rotax Single speed hub posted by: Tom on 8/9/2001 at 9:01:44 PM
I got an old wheel with a hub I never heard of. It is a Rotax coaster brake hub. Has P 38 F+S GES.GESH stamped on it. The brake arm is nice with a nice design on it. The rim is a painted 28" the center of it has a high peak. The hub is very nice shape. It must be a late 30's hub. Has anyone heard of this brand.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rotax Single speed hub posted by Paul on 8/11/2001 at 4:48:31 AM
Tom: The 'F & S' could be Fitchel and Sachs, of Germany.
That could indicate that it was made under licence.
Rotax is a Canadian company, I think. They made/make motorcycle engines, and complete motorcycles too. That's about all I know - we generally never see their products this side of the pond. If it is of the Sachs type coaster hub, it will have a roller clutch, far better than the common garden variety coaster hub.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rotax Single speed hub posted by Tom on 8/11/2001 at 10:45:06 AM
Thanks Paul. Rotax is the name of the Ski-Doo snomobile motors. Ski-Doo is a Canadian company. They did make motorcycles and used Rotax powerplants. I believe the Rotax motors were made in Austria, but they may have been made in Germany. Maybe they have more than 1 country that made different items. Do they still make hubs. This one is very nice with nicely stamped wrighting and symbols.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by: Art on 8/9/2001 at 2:09:36 PM
Anyone have any ideas as to what would be the correct type of kick stand for a mid-30's English roadster with rod brakes? The space behind the seat tube is too crowded to fit a standard kick stand in there. Where rear wheel kick stands used then? Were rear drop stands, like those popular on balloon tired bikes, used? Any ideas?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/9/2001 at 5:45:46 PM
That's a very good question and I cannot answer it really properly or entirely. Persons to ask that question would be Hilary Stone,or Tony Hadland. Many others also but that's who I think of immediately. I mean to say it would be good to ask these folks and see their response about very old British kickstands.Some of the English rear racks had drop type stands similar to the American Balloon tire bikes. My Ashby rear rack has a drop stand. Raleigh made an alloy "prop stand" and it had a small block with a bolt thru it and it did fit in this small space. A lot of bicycles in pictures are leaned against a kerb. A surprisingly wide variety of handlebar grips were made. Some of celluloyd(hard plastic) too. Most of the british pedal cycles had stands with the bike I believe but then again, as I said they leaned them a lot. Here in the states, Wald made a kickstand and these found their way onto English bikes where they (combined with a careless shop or owner) were great in mashing the chainstays on the bike. Still a good cheap steel functional kickstand.( I hate these myself) Still I don't feel that I'm answering this completely or acurately enough. Terry's made kickstands, Ashby the rack folks also. 1960's, 1970's, 1980's Raleigh's had German alloy Pletcher kickstands and rear racks too. Pletcher had a perfect, rubber footed, model that fit the 28 inch Raleigh Tourist D.L.1.(Bobby bikelike a glove.Kickstands in the mid 1930's, I cannot exactly say. I know the rear kickstand that you see today comes from China,Taiwan,Hong- Kong. Did the English use this type? Good question.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by Fred on 8/9/2001 at 8:30:07 PM
Art: I can't shed any light on the kind of stands that were used on older English bikes, but I would comment that every picture I have ever seen in print or in films of older English bikes, they were shown leaning against a building, fence, or some other solid object. We all know how leaned bikes as well as bikes on stands can fall. Thats why I like flic stands(flic stands mount on the down tube and hold the wheel straight), for my few standless bikes. With a flic stand the bike can be safely leaned on anything substantial. I would also add that I have installed Greenfield alloy side stands on a couple of my road bikes where there was very little space between the seat tube and tire.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by Ben on 8/9/2001 at 8:41:57 PM
I have a '51 Phillips with a rear wheel type stand. Otherwise, the other '50s English bikes I have can take a Pletscher.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by sam on 8/10/2001 at 6:59:56 PM
I have an Eastman(india)that come with a rear drop stand.Eastman's web page said these bikes were a copy of the 1920 phillips design.Might be as the English set up most of the industry in India---sam

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by Mark R. on 8/11/2001 at 4:36:40 AM
My wife's Raleigh roadster came with a Pletsher that was specifically made for rod brake bikes. Marked "R-B" ROD-BRAKE on top. Probably not original to this bike but very nicely made. It is somewhat off-set from the centerline so that the rods clear, and the clamp is designed to fit down and around the thicker stays. Gotta be english made stands just like it somewhere. I took it off as I don't use stands. If your bike is on a stand, it's gonna fall over and get damaged sooner or later.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by Ben on 8/12/2001 at 8:21:23 AM
My Phillips came with one of the early Phillips rear stands...looks very primitive, perhaps hand made.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   KICK STAND posted by log on 8/12/2001 at 8:39:45 PM
my 1940 raliegh has a rear mount, but I think it was aftermarket

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   B.S.A. Hub Gear Quadrant posted by: Paul on 8/9/2001 at 5:46:46 AM
Tomorrow I get to bring home a 1948 B.S.A. Ladies Bike. The owner at the cycle salvage shop has stripped out the wheels, (may the fleas of ten thousand camels nestle in his lap). He claims it had a coaster brake hub, and it may well have had, but the funny BSA gear change quadrant thingo is still on the frame, so it did obviously have a 3 spd. hub at some stage. Probably the BSA 3 spd., which was an obsolete Sturmey-Archer K model. My question is: will the BSA gear change quadrant be OK to use on a Sturmey-Archer AW 3 spd. hub? I've never seen this gadget before; the bike also has funny sidepull caliper brakes - there is an extension piece from the lower brake arm to support the outer cable. Thanks.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by: Brian Hayes on 8/6/2001 at 5:32:40 PM
I use my Sports bikes almost every day and I know there are others of you out there that also put a lot of miles on these. I thought it might be nice to have everyone with experience (good and bad) to chime in with their tales. What brands and types of tires perform well? Do you have favorite brands in the 590mm size? Recommendations for various types of use?
Personally, I have found the selection of dept. store tires to be quite disappointing. For example, I had a set of Vee Rubber (Thailand) tires last less than 6 months before crumbling away. Kenda 90psi tires seem to be better, but still not very durable. Right now, I'm trying a set of Michelin Select in size 28-590; they are skinny, 90psi-rated and seem to be of very good quality. Time will tell...

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Warren on 8/7/2001 at 3:00:50 PM
I think the Michelin tire is as good a tire as you can find. I would love to source out a couple of pairs...do you mind telling me where you got them from?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Willie L. on 8/7/2001 at 10:43:28 PM
I have a pair of Hutchinson gumwalls on my Rudge; they're narrow, barely wider than a Raleigh pattern rim but make the bike as fast as a ten-speed. Also have thin tread so they puncture easily.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Ed on 8/8/2001 at 5:40:52 AM
I bought a 1972 Gitane from the original owner a few years ago which still had the badly worn original Michelins on it. When I tried to replace them I was told by Michelin that they no longer made that size . I bought a couple of ten dollar Kendas and am quite satisfied with them.I also have a 1963 Hercules which still has the original Dunlops. The sidewalls are showing their age but they still hold air.I rode 10.5 miles on them on my evening ride last night.I have also used Kendas as replacements on other bikes and have no complaints.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Ben on 8/8/2001 at 8:33:32 AM
I put black 26 x 1-3/8 tires marketed by Schwinn on my Humber before it was stolen. If you are a stickler for authenticity they're not for you, but they were very good quality, nice handling tires.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by sam on 8/8/2001 at 10:37:30 AM
Hay Bryan,that's a real good post!Any tires are good for display but as Bryan pointed out he rides them(alot).I've gotten some tires called Torreon from Mexico in the 28x1&1/2 size that are good tires.They also make other sizes but I have not tried them so far.I plan on putting a set of 26x1&3/8 on the hercules---sam

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Bruce on 8/8/2001 at 3:50:20 PM
I have Schwinn "sports" gumwall tires on my Superbe, they seem to ride well, I'm curious to see how long they last.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Brian Hayes on 8/9/2001 at 10:17:09 AM

I got the Michelins (a pair of World Tour, as well) from St. John Street Cycles in the UK. They have online secure ordering and the shipping can be a bit expensive, but the tires themselves were rather inexpensive ($7.50-$9.00, depending on the current exchange rate).

Here's a link: http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Clyde on 8/10/2001 at 4:55:51 AM
I've noted premature sidewall cracking on certain brands; so once the tire is mounted, how do you fellows preserve/conserve the rubber? Armor All, STP Son of a Gun, other products? Also what's best technique for un-mounted storage of NOS tires? Thanks

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Mark R. on 8/11/2001 at 4:42:57 AM
I bought very expensive Semperits for my DL-1($40), and although they are just like the original tyres, one started cracking with dry rot almost immediately. The other is still good, but I use Kendas now. I don't really notice much performance difference, actually the Kenda may have just a smidge less rolling resistance, but that is just a "seat of the pants" observation. And, they are only $10 apiece.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Ben on 8/12/2001 at 8:30:01 AM
Why do you think the Semperit rotted? Was it really old stock to begin with? I am a new owner of a Phillips Roadster and was thinking of hunting down original tires for it. The ones on it now are a "Raleigh" brand and an older Dunlop which looks original. Does anyone know if the Dunlops are available? And, while I'm here, can anyone tell me whether the Dunlop rims on this Phillips are stainless steel? They look like it.(has '59 hub, have not researched serial number yet)

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Warren on 8/12/2001 at 6:23:17 PM
Dunlop got out of the bike tire biz about 30 years ago. And yes they did make stainless rims and they are quite collectible...especially the 26 X 1 1/4. What size are yours?

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Mark R. on 8/12/2001 at 6:53:57 PM
About the rotted Semperit: yes my guess was that they were old stock, although the front tire has held up very well compared to the one I put on the back( no cracks, and looks like new after a several years).
Personally I would just use a resonable quality but inexpensive tyre like the Kenda,or something similar. I mean, after all, one doesn't really need exact replacement tyres to enjoy riding these old roadsters. I really do think that my Kenda rolls just a little easier too. Probably it's lighter built, and that is the difference I feel.They are easily replaced, and look enough like original tyres that I wonder if the expense to buy better tyres is worth it.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by me on 8/12/2001 at 8:43:38 PM
the best tyre has to be Dunlop. The tires on my 1940 raliegh are original, but look brand new. IRC also made good tires during the 70's Nationals were also good, but Michillins are some of the worst I've owned.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Favorite tire brands posted by Ben on 8/12/2001 at 10:09:40 PM
My Dunlop rims are 28"