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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   I wish to date a frame and need help posted by: Albert on 8/6/2001 at 2:17:56 PM
When did the C.P.S.C. require wheel retaining devices on some bikes equiped with quick-release front wheels? I recently "roadsterized" a Schwinn World Sport frame found in the township transfer yard. I"m very pleased with the conversion and curious about its age.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   I wish to date a frame and need help posted by Keith on 8/8/2001 at 9:44:58 AM
I don't know the dates, but I think it was in the 1980s. There are two kinds -- the "lawyer lips" and the swing away arms that hook onto screws fixed to the fork, which I often see on Schwinns. I'm not certain but I don't think CPSC required the latter. World Sport frames are abundent and pretty well made (at least some were made by by Giant). I find one or two in the trash every year, They also make nice fixed gear bikes. It's good to recycle!

AGE / VALUE:   Mavic BB posted by: mike on 8/5/2001 at 5:17:29 PM

I recently bought a mid 80's peugeot frame. Its made with columbus slx tubing but the previous owner had chamfered the bottom bracket face to accept a Mavic BB. I found a BB to fit but Im not sure what crankset is compatible with the BB. Anyone know? thanks


MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by: Albert on 8/5/2001 at 6:07:43 AM
I' m looking for a way to treat butt leather saddles so that they do not stain the seat of my pants. Any suggestions ? And, don't tell me to wear black or brown pants!

   RE:MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by Warren on 8/5/2001 at 9:14:23 AM
When I get a "new" used Brooks or other leather saddle, the first thing I do is scrub it thoroughly with a "scrubbie"...you know those green fibre kitchen pads. I use a mild soap...dishwashing liquid is OK. As soon as it dries, I give it a very thin coat of Brooks saddle treatment and rub it in really hard until the saddle shines. A liberal coat of dressing under the saddle and you're ready to go.

   RE:RE:MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by Albert on 8/5/2001 at 11:14:54 AM
Thanks for the reply, Warren. If I may press the point, would you wearing khaki pants soil the seat? Has it been your experience that the treatment you described makes the seat free of the staining problem?

Did a brown Brooks pro last week. Wore light coloured shorts the next day for an hour ride with no staining. Of course there are no guarantees...if someone has already gone and put shoe polish all over the seat it may take some real elbow grease to remove it. Just don't be afraid to really scrub the seat clean. After all, what good is a seat if you can't use it?

   RE:MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by Mark R. on 8/5/2001 at 5:47:38 PM
The black stain is a mark of honor. If you can wear black shorts. You can also hard wax the leather, but that's bad for it since it can clog the pores. I usually polish mine and have little problems.

Brooks Proofide is all any leather saddle needs. Is it true that some use colored shoe polish?

   RE:RE:MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by Albert on 8/7/2001 at 12:50:45 PM
With thanks to those who took the trouble to reply, I must write to say that the cleaning and application of Proofhide does not prevent a stained trouser seat! My cycling shorts are made from the Dickies brand of tan workpants which now after a five mile ride in the 90 degree heat and high humidity of a Philadelphia summer show a very noticable black-brown stain. I suspect that the tanning process so thouroughly impregnates the leather making the removal of the stain causing materials almost impossible. I am thinking of using an industrial floor coating in an attempt to seal the saddle surface. I know the conventional wisedom that says "leather must breath". I trust that the untreated underside of the saddle will do both the inhaling and exhaling! Currently, I have box of B72, B66, B17, and Professional saddles all unusable. Certainly, I can not be the only cyclist so discouraged. Is Brooks, like its former parent SA, neglectful of addressing and eliminating long standing problems associated with its product line? I would to hear from others on this issue.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by Brian Hayes on 8/7/2001 at 1:10:30 PM
I ride in dress slacks most of the time, some light colored. I have not ridden any of the black Brooks saddles; I prefer the honey color. I also ride a brown and "natural" color pair of Ideale 6 saddles. All these were brand new or NOS and I've not had any stains, even in this hot weather. I've worn out the seats of pants, but never had any staining. I'm using Proofide only.


   RE:MISC:   PROTECTION FROM STAINING;BROOKS BUTT LEATHER SEATS posted by Keith on 8/8/2001 at 9:40:09 AM
I always get the stain too, even with Profide only on a honey brown saddle. My Chinese Forever Roadster has a knockoff of a Brooks B-33, and the top has some sort of very thick, hard clear coat, as Albert is suggesting. It works -- no stain.

MISC:   Nice Raleigh Enclosed guard on Ebay posted by: Jim on 8/5/2001 at 2:53:18 AM
I have a nice Raleigh enclosed guard on ebay right now. Item #1175029941
Also can anyone tell me the over all measurement of a 28" and a 26" guard I'm not sure which it is. Thanks

WANTED:Pre-1950 Hercules Ladie's model posted by: JDL on 8/5/2001 at 12:46:50 AM
I am looking for a Hercules ladie's model made between 1946-1950, 26" wheels, 3 speed, enclosed chain case. Anybody knows more about Hercules made between 1946- 1950, the availability and possible price for one in good original condition (restorable)? Thanks. JDL

   RE:WANTED:   Pre-1950 Hercules Ladie's model posted by WARREN on 8/5/2001 at 6:34:42 AM
I've got a ladies Hercules from around that period but it may be older. It has rod brakes and a hockey stick chainguard. Are you sure that they had fully enclosed chainguards in those years?

Value of these bikes is totally dependant on condition but it may be very difficult to find one from exactly those years. I rate mine a 6 out of ten because it doesn't have the original rear wheel....I replaced both with nice westricks and an AW. I place a value of $150 on my bike.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Pre-1950 Hercules Ladie's model posted by JDL on 8/5/2001 at 9:17:27 AM
I might be able to scan a couple of faded pictures and post them on this board. Anybody knows whether it is possible to post pictures and how? Yes, it did have enclosed chain case.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh bike ebay posted by: Tom on 8/3/2001 at 10:21:45 PM
Nice Raleigh bike on ebay, item 1173726885 Not mine but would love to have it.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Drake Cycles?? posted by: Chris on 8/3/2001 at 5:07:16 PM
Does anybody know about Drake Cycles. I just bought a bike froma woman who said that Drake was made by Raliegh in the 1960's. I can't seem to find anything about Drake. Does anyone have more info for me? Thanks.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Drake Cycles?? posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/4/2001 at 1:10:24 PM
It was made by Raleigh in the 1960s but there is more to it and I don't know. Try Sheldon Brown's page http://www. Sheldonbrown.com old bicycles

AGE / VALUE:   LEATHER Raleigh tool bag on E-Bay posted by: Joseph on 8/3/2001 at 10:18:42 AM
There's a fantastic, vintage, NOS leather Raleigh logo touring bag on eBay right now. It's obviously a high-end piece with pockets and wonderful detailing. It's not mine and I don't know the owner, by the way. Number is 1173577605.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   LEATHER Raleigh tool bag on E-Bay posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/3/2001 at 12:04:19 PM
This is leather. Real leather not leatherette or vinal but the real thing. You don't see too many of these.

WANTED:   Fork for 24" Raleigh Tourist posted by: john on 8/3/2001 at 8:28:12 AM
Help! I need a straight fork for my late 70's Raleigh Tourist with a 24" frame. Must have good-very good original paint. Thank you, John

AGE / VALUE:   Oh Canada! posted by: Art on 8/2/2001 at 8:01:06 PM
Anyone ever hear of a Canadian bike called a Perfect, made by the Canada Bicycle and Motor Co. Toronto? It's an older diamond frame with fenders, 28"wheels, coaster brake. Nothing out of the oridinary stylewise, just curious about the maker.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Oh Canada! posted by Warren on 8/3/2001 at 12:01:33 PM
Hi Art. Is that Canadian Cycle and Motor Co? (CCM) I've seen a lot of them but not a "Perfect"...describe the headbadge...look at the crankset and see if it is cotterless...do the fenders have pinstripes? Does the rear hub have and writing on the left outside perimeter and does the front hub have a serial number? So many questions...

There's lots to know about CCM. They started making bikes around 1898.

How's that Golden Arrow shaping up? Any pics?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Oh Canada! posted by Art on 8/4/2001 at 2:05:59 PM
Thanks Warren. I was looking at the frame hanging upside down in the dark and the bronze badge had been painted over. I'll be back there Wednesday and check for sure. I have a set of 28" S/A drum breaks with pretty big tires and I'm looking for a compatible frame. The fork and stays have to be at least 15" The golden Arrow is currently on hold. I had hoped to refurbish it enough to use it as an occassional easy ride commute.This bike is over 60 yrs old and its got a lot of miles on it. Originally it had Brittania fenders. The old fellow told me he had replaced the front fender about 25 years ago because he had run into a bus. Even though the replacement Blumel fenders are old, they look brand new compared to the frame. The other and more significant problem is that there is a small tweak in the top tube by the crown that appears to have happened when the bike hit the bus. The stem and bars are also a bit off. Probably not enough to keep me from riding it, but enough out of alignment to just bug the heck out of me. I haven't figured out how to attack the problem yet so I'm waiting. Both of your racks look great, on the Hercules that is ready to roll and on the Golden Arrow.Thanks again, Art

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Oh Canada! posted by Tom on 8/5/2001 at 12:18:00 AM
Art I think I am the one that sold you the SA drum brake rims. I came across a retired gentleman who has been collecting old Canadian bikes for about 40 years. His father started him off fixing bikes. On Friday I went to see what he had and ended up buying all of his bikes. Lots of old double bar bikes, all Canadian made.Here is what was very nice. 40's mens Cadet double bar 6 out of 10. 30's/40's BSA sorry an English bike slipped in 8 out of 10. 40's mens Airflite double bar Hudson Bay Co 5 out of 10. 40's CCM ladies fair cond. 40's ladies Zenith Marshal Wells Co 5 out of 10. 40's CCM balloon tire frame, only missing wheels. 40's Crescent Canadian Cycle & Motor Co Ltd fair. 60's CCM ladies with 3spd rear dyno hub. 2 60's CCM Rangers 1 is mint. CCM Mustamg 3 spd fair. A couple of double bar frames in good cond. A pair of brand new 28" fenders robin egg blue. 60's CCM Glider 3spd twist grip 8 out of 10.
I bought over 100 bikes and frames lots of 10 spds in rough shape. I also got about 100 wheels, some SA 3spd, some alloy 27", some 26" single spd, lots of painted 28" front and back mostly Canadian hubs. Lots of alloy and steel racks.
He has been getting rid of his bikes for a while now. I missed out on a lot of foldups, lightweight and some double bar bikes. I paid a fair price for the bikes but I can sell a few bikes and parts to get some of my cost out. Any one looking for something specific, email me I may be able to help. I also have some English bikes that someone may want. Superbe, sport, single speeds.

FOR SALE:   Could be Me? posted by: Ray on 8/2/2001 at 12:01:03 PM
Is it just me or has the hobby really gone flat. I have a bike on sale right now on ebay that is getting no traction. It is one fantastic Brit bike, a Dawes 15 speed from the late 70s or early 80s. Note the tripple ring TA cranks that are almost flawless. Has the economy hit ebay or just this hobby?

   RE:FOR SALE:   Could be Me? posted by Esteban on 8/2/2001 at 1:15:00 PM
Interesting...I think there are two primary ways of evaluating the quality of the "hobby." One centers around the dealer/collector nexus where success is based primarily on how much people are willing to pay for old ("vintage" in this nexus) British bicycles. Another view is that the success of the hobby is to be found in the pleasures derived from maintaining, riding, and sharing your great old bicycle(s). If this is the case (which is my position), then our answers won't be found in the market. Isn't it great when you've been stopped on a ride by a person interested in the bicycle, or when you see other like bicycles around, or when a new person starts reading this board? Anyway, I'm sure that these two positions are not so separate after all, but I've just noticed that reserves are high and I still see few bikes around (especially on the West Coast). I'm 28 and there's lots of interest in old bikes...let's get people on 'em and teach upkeep and the like. Maybe I'm wrong...

   RE:FOR SALE:   Could be Me? posted by Ben on 8/2/2001 at 3:40:43 PM
Softness in economy, overall appeal of the item, whoever happens to be looking at the moment, current fashion all play a part. There sure seems to be a strong market for DL-1s and Rene Herse stuff though.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Could be Me? posted by Ed on 8/3/2001 at 7:20:48 AM
Your Dawes looks good to me.Although not that rare it would make a welcome addition to my Brit collection,however I try to avoid getting involved in situations involving shipping. Good luck with the sale. I wish you were closer.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Could be Me? posted by Keith on 8/8/2001 at 9:58:27 AM
No offense, but a 70s to 80s Dawes is not a top-tier road bike -- more like third tier. I've owned two Dawes bikes, and the workmanship on both was acceptable to marginal. In particular, the brazing on the 80s Atlantis frame had significant gaps and spillover, in a word, sloppy workmanship. IMHO, only the most sought after bikes are going to increase in value, these being Rene Herse, Alex Singer, Hetchins, Wastyn Paramounts, prime year Cinellis, Colnagos, Masis, 1950s Bianchis, etc. Second-tier bikes, like 1970s Schwinn Paramounts, Raleigh Professional or International, will probably more or less retain their value. Everything else is not an investment, but may be worth quite a bit because, as suggested above, you can ride and enjoy it. As guru Michael Kone says, the vintage lightweight market is limited, and "thin." But the good news for us is that we can all still find very fine older bikes for very little money, especially compared to the price more expensive new bikes that don't offer any real advantages, and which in many respects are less relaible than their vintage counterparts.

   RE:FOR SALE:   Could be Me? posted by Ben on 8/9/2001 at 9:04:35 AM
Very well said!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Saved from the dumpster posted by: Dale Oswald on 8/2/2001 at 10:28:31 AM
I just bought an Argyle, ca. 1954, ladies three speed. It's an unexceptional bike, shows the signs of years garaged (rust and cracked paint/decals). Aside from the AW, doesn't have any brand name components to speak of. $20 for a serviceable bike seemed fair...

Previous owner was original owner. Her family bought the bike for her in the Boston area when she was a girl.

Anybody know anything about the brand?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Saved from the dumpster posted by Paul Aslanides on 8/4/2001 at 7:36:44 AM
Nope, don't know this one, but Argyle is a Scottish name, so perhaps it was imported, or built locally by an expatriate Scotsman. There were Argyle cars built in Scotland way back; perhaps someone had rights to the name and revived it, however briefly.
Just for interest's sake, it may be worth taking a closer
look at some parts of your bike. You might find the Sturmey Archer name faintly on the front hub. They did make plain front and rear hubs, as well as mudguards and wheel rims, but I have no idea when, nor for how long.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Saved from the dumpster posted by Dale Oswald on 8/9/2001 at 6:10:03 AM
Good idea, I'll be taking a closer look one of these days but right now I'm getting ready for my annual "vacation" (week long tour). I'm thinking that it might also be a store brand.

AGE / VALUE:   What is the name for this style crank? posted by: ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/2/2001 at 10:13:10 AM
What do you call this style crank and how do you work on it? Never seen this before and it is interesting.
E- bay item #1173966635
1960 Steyr Puch Waffenrad bicycle

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is the name for this style crank? posted by Warren on 8/2/2001 at 7:33:32 PM
It's a small world Christopher! On Monday night, my favourite bud and bike guru comes over to my house with just such a crankset except that the pattern on the ring is different. On Tuesday, I break for lunch and ride over to another vintage bike guy's shop and show him the crankset. He pulls out a german frame he's been toting around for 18 years and gives it to me because he's never seen a crank that will fit it.

First of all, this system appears to be exclusively German. I had a link that has a picture but it's on my work computer. The bottom bracket sets up like a headset. Two cups are pressed into the BB shell. This is not BSC standard...it is about an eighth of an inch bigger. Bearings and then two cones are threaded on to the axle... one side has a lock nut and washer. The other cone butts up against a lip on the axle, (like an english hub axle). Tighten up the cones and put the cranks on. They are square in section and as you can see by the photo they have an axle retaining bolt....cotterless. They make this system in a cottered crankset as well. Finally the last cool thing is that the chainring itself is replaceable. It is held onto a spline by a two inch lockring on the inside of the crank. Really well designed and executed.

Tomorrow, I will find that link and post it for you. I've been searching for it as I write this and came across a similar system callem a Thompson BB at http://www-eng.lbl.gov/'tasaleh/thompson.html. It has pinch bolts instead of cotters or cotterless bolts. Just when you think you've seen it all!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is the name for this style crank? posted by Warren on 8/2/2001 at 7:45:53 PM
Replace the comma with a tilde when you copy the above URL. One other note...the frame I was given is a lightweight Hawk made in Germany. It has crimped seat and chain stays in the fashion of modern Colnago tubing. I guess there are very few new ideas when it comes to bike design.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is the name for this style crank? posted by Robert on 8/3/2001 at 5:52:16 AM
The Thompson BB is interesting. I bought a German framed 10 speed some 15-20 years ago from a co-worker. Rode it some and then put it away. Last year I tore it down repainted, built wheels and then went on a search for a BB to replace my dead one. Found a new one locally. Now it is my road bike till I get the Easy Tour clone finished. I wish the 10 speed used a standard BB instead of the Thompson. Then I could get a lighter crankset for it. Lots of the folders use a system somewhat like the Thompson.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   What is the name for this style crank? posted by Paul Aslanides on 8/3/2001 at 5:58:13 AM
This bottom bracket with pressed-in cups sounds familiar.
Had a Dutch bike once, a Junkers, with a similar arrangement. Similar to BMX bikes, but an odd sized cup. This would have been one of the cheaper models, I suspect.One clever idea which they've used for years is to
run a wire inside the frame tube for the rear light. There are insulated terminals on the frame, to connect to the dynamo. I kept only the wheels, wide alloy, quite similar to the Westwood pattern rims, 26 X 1 3/8". I think this bike had cotter pins, not the through-bolt system that Warren describes.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: What is the name for this style crank? posted by Warren on 8/3/2001 at 12:08:28 PM
Here's that other link for the thompson BB http://c8m47.pi.tu-berlin.de/tandem/fixedgear.html

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: What is the name for this style crank? posted by Warren on 8/3/2001 at 12:10:16 PM
Sorry...in english http://c8m47.pi.tu-berlin.de/tandem/fixedgear_e.html

MISC:   Current Events… posted by: VVVintage Vintage Bicycles at OldRoads.com on 8/1/2001 at 7:28:30 AM
We are preparing to expand and grow over the next couple months. Here’s an overview of our plans:

1) The shop will be closed the week of August 4 – 10, 2001. No orders will ship during this week.

2) Sunday August 19th is the 5th Annual Larz Anderson National Bike Show and Swap at the Museum of Transportation in Brookline, MA. If there are any particular bicycles or parts you want us to bring to the show, please let us know. We’re limited in space but we may be able to accommodate you. We’ll have a number of bicycles and parts which we still have not had time to post on our web site including a 1969 Orange Krate, a 1967 coppertone Sting-Ray, a 1958 Raleigh with an enclosed chainguard, wicker baskets, frame pumps, NOS parts and more.

3) Some time this fall we will be making some infrastructure changes:
a) We will be moving to a faster web service in order to handle the 200,000+ hits we’re getting each week at OldRoads.com.
b) We will be opening up a retail shop with a real street address, repair shop, restoration service and a real, published phone number.

We would like to thank you all for your support, participation and suggestions in helping us build VVVintage Vintage Bicycles on the web over the past 6 years. We look forward to serving you and providing more on-line vintage bicycle resources in the future.

Vin – VVVintage Vintage Bicycles

   RE:MISC:   Current Events… posted by ChristopherRobin2@starmail.com on 8/2/2001 at 10:37:59 AM
I'm delighted to hear this. Thanks for all you have done so far.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by: Melanie on 8/1/2001 at 6:45:52 AM
I just recently purchase a bicycle via ebay. It was discribed as a 70's vintage raleigh "space rider". It's for decorative purposes, but I'd like to know more about this bike. Was the $5.51 I paid for it a good deal? It looks like the condition is very clean with original paint, fenders, and saddle. It's also a single speed with coaster brakes?? I don't think that the hubs are the originals and I can only find one number stamped on the frame. It's 3901793. Any information will help.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by Ben on 8/1/2001 at 9:24:35 AM
$5.51 is a wonderful bargain. The Spacerider is the perfect bike for a 10 year old, which isn't made any more.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by Ben on 8/1/2001 at 9:25:20 AM
$5.51 is a wonderful bargain. The Space Rider is the perfect bike for a 10 year old, which isn't made any more.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by Ben on 8/1/2001 at 9:25:50 AM
$5.51 is a wonderful bargain. The Space Rider is the perfect bike for a 10 year old, which isn't made any more. I bought one a year ago for my daughter. It was unused original condition and I paid $60.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by Ben on 8/1/2001 at 9:33:15 AM
Sorry for the multiple replies!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by Melanie on 8/3/2001 at 7:12:25 AM
Thanks for the information! Do you think you can help me date the bike by the number off the frame? Maybe when my daughter is ten, I'll let her ride it, but for now,it's for displaying only.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Space Rider posted by Ben on 8/4/2001 at 8:45:23 AM
There is a Serial Number chart here on VVVintage, but there should also be numbers on the rear hub which is the last two numbers of the year of manufacture.