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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   sturmey archer fw hubs posted by: phil on 10/1/2002 at 11:22:21 AM
my charles twigg&co. has sturmey archer hubs that are fw series.i've been told those are fairly uncommon due to a recall.is any one familiar with the s/a fw?i just learned that the pictures of this bike were not sent as requested.my appologies.should be sent tues oct 1st

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   sturmey archer fw hubs posted by David on 10/1/2002 at 7:18:15 PM
FW is the commonest of the four-speed hubs (and can be adapted to 5 acc'g to Sheldon). I haven't heard of a "recall" of these. (Perhaps you're thinking of the SW 3-speed hub which was withdrawn from production.) There was some discussion recently on this site about different internal springs and their effect on the difficulty of shifting into the lowest gear.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   sturmey archer fw hubs posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/1/2002 at 8:17:18 PM
humberchristopher28@hotmail.com would love to see pictures of this bike!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   sturmey archer fw hubs posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/1/2002 at 8:25:12 PM
The fact that these are not heard of very often means these are rare.
You said before the company went bankrupt over a money dispute, right?
Commonest of the four speeds, yes. Still not made today and four speed parts are a bit of a battle to locate and get into your collection or on the bike.
Usually this bike would have come rolling off the assembly line with a plain old bread and butter Sturmey-Archer A.W. three speed. It's a bit of a bonus to have that Sturmey-Archer F.W. for speed hub in it. Myself, It's the unknown or seldon heard about- ness of the name that attracts me. I have a thing for
obscure (lost in time and space) old bikes. The great thing about the web sites is that eventually I'll read a post by somebody who will be explaining it and the mystery will be solved. Im itching to see what makes this bike unusual or unique.

MISC:   Cotterless conversion posted by: dafydd on 10/1/2002 at 2:19:49 AM
Can someone recommend a good cotterless BB spindle for use in a Raleigh BB? Planning to use a Sugino track crank.

   RE:MISC:   Cotterless conversion posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/1/2002 at 8:34:30 PM
This was not easy for me. But, I made it more difficult by not following thru with an e- mail to Sheldon who can help out.
I just blindly started fitting cotterless bottombrackets off of old mountain bikes until I found something that fit. My shop pals looked at me and said they never heard of a 7 series botombracket spindle. However these are out there, not everybody is tuned to the same wavelength. Then I spoke to the head Bulleseye Co. crank fellow but never went thru with that either. He can help you and he's smart. The fellow at Bulleseye and Sheldon too. Either one should get you all fixed up. The cotterless crank spindle spins more nicely than the original Raleigh spindle.
My Raleigh Superbe is an 18 speed hybrid.
Sheldonbrown.com or do a search for Bullseye Cranks

AGE / VALUE:   Headbadge removal trick(for rivited badges) posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/1/2002 at 12:20:09 AM
That Park tool for removing headsets is great! You stick it in, you push slowly until it goes "snap" and then you hammer
it out. the tool is resting evenly on the headset cup and it comes out straight like it is supposed to. No damaging headset cups. No more steel pipe for me! I'm a gonna get me that tool! Don't get your fingers in it, like I almost did. The one side is going to close down in on itself this is how the tool works. (wear eye protection)
Ok, headbadge removal tip:
Put the bike in the stand, remove the fork and headset stuff and put it in a bag and label it.
Get a long flat screwdriver and a hammer and stick the blade down into the headtube of the bike from the inside and rest that screwdriver on the rivit end that went through the metal badge and you'll see it with a flashlight sticking out. Now with that screwdriver resting on the rivit. Drive down that screwdriver with a whack of the hammer.

It does not matter if you go "wack" or if you go "smack" or Thwrack! anyways, do this with all three rivits and then very, very, very carefully (actually it should almost fall off, that old badge!)

Now prise it off very gently with a tiny screwdriver being really carefull not to bend that fragile but beautiful badge. Please do not bend that badge!
Also, you now have a white towel underneath the bike so when these rivits fall out and off you see them and you can put them in the bag with the badge and re- use them. Don't loose these or you'll be wondering if you are putting in the right color rivits. Copper,white metal or brass.
You can pop these original rivits back in and into solder or glue or whatever. Take measurements on the bike where box lining and decals are or where so they can be on there again in exactly the right spot(s) make notes, take pictures
please do not drop things down that sewer grate. Cover it over before you start work.

Probably best to get ahold of Nick at Lloyds and get yourself a few rivits.

Anyways, we got that badge off of the bike without ruining it!
Now if the bike comes back from the painter in one piece you have the original badge all set to go.
When sending out a bike and getting one back they usually say to have an old Normandy or Schwinn hub(whatever) hub stuck in the rear frame triangle so if some big burly shipping company employee man throws something onto your bike's box then the rear end won't get mashed.
I remove forks and ship them seperately. Wheels in a seperate box too.
I did see someplace on the old bike web where people re-paint badges and you can look to find replacements but these are usually used on e- bay and you are gonna want something in new condition.

If you are like me and the bikes badge has tiny screws that hold the badge onto the bike please do not loose the screws and the badge itself. If you do, try to replace it and not tell anybody about it. I found another badge and sent it to the guy who now owns the bike and I have been forgiven at last. It was not fun to find an exact badge!

Look over that fork's steer tube for buldges or something that is not right. Wear(grooves) is acceptable but pitting is not. Pitting on races is bad, see this and say "Oh, No!" it's time to scare up a new set of races, cones, whatever when you see pitting. First pitting and then cracking and then big, grinding halt type trouble. The walk the bike home kind and that is not fun. Good Luck!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Headbadge removal trick(for rivited badges) posted by dafydd on 10/1/2002 at 2:19:12 AM
I tried this trick myself and it was more trouble than it's with. The screwdriver trick seemed to distort the rivet rather than cut it, making prising hard. What I ended up doing, which was easier but more permanent, was take a half-round file and file of the rivet on the inside.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Headbadge removal trick(for rivited badges) posted by Edward in Vancouver on 10/1/2002 at 2:58:48 AM
The best way I found to remove head badges is with one of those utility knives with snap-off blades. Rest the blade on top of the rivet inbetween the badge and the head tube. Give the knife a light whack with a mallet, and the rivet is cut off. It's no fun messing with cut-down rivets on a newly painted bike anyway.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Headbadge removal trick(for rivited badges) posted by Ray on 10/1/2002 at 1:58:56 PM
Wow! A lot of trouble for such a little part. I have removed many using many methods. I have the best success with the riveted ones by just taking a pair of linemans pliers with some good teeth or knurls on the tip. I then take the nose of these long pliers and bite the tip of the rivet and twist ever so slightly left and the rivets pop right out without destroying the rivet or headbadge. I do not have to disassemble half the bike to do it either. It takes a little skill but worth the practice. What many of you call rivets actually have a slight knurling on them and will back out with ease. For the badges with screws I have a special small thin blade screwdriver that works like it was designed for it. Good luck.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Headbadge removal trick(for rivited badges) posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/1/2002 at 8:15:17 PM
Good points, and the part about the knurling and it backing out is true. I never try to remove these from the outside because all you need is one little slip and you have scratched that badge.

AGE / VALUE:   A balloon tyre Mercury posted by: sam on 10/1/2002 at 12:41:52 AM
No,No,No,not the American kind.This 26"wheeled(British F12) balloon tyre roadester is Hanks.Used in WW2 http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pubimage.asp?id_=778135

AGE / VALUE:   a second look posted by: sam on 10/1/2002 at 12:17:50 AM
Question:did raleigh make a type of fork that has a small "S" bend to it?At first the forks looked bent--then I saw a second set on another bike.---sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a second look posted by Mucus on 10/1/2002 at 6:08:50 PM
That's not a Raleigh fork, however it is a grand old english bike co. made fork( I simply can't remember the name!).
Chris, help!!!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a second look posted by Tom on 10/2/2002 at 2:39:23 AM
Bates bikes had a fork like you are asking about. See this ste for pictures. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British/Bates.htm

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a second look posted by Tom on 10/2/2002 at 2:41:50 AM
Bates bikes had a fork like you are asking about. See this ste for pictures. http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British/Bates.htm

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   a second look posted by Mucus on 10/2/2002 at 1:06:06 PM
Yes! That's it of course Bates. I had one a long time ago, and gave it away!(It was shot).

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Cadet Roadster posted by: Pat on 9/30/2002 at 10:55:09 PM
Another bike I came across on Ebay. This looks like the bikes from India. Anyone have any ideas on who made this.http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=718599240&rd=1

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Very old Rolls bike posted by: Pat on 9/30/2002 at 10:36:58 PM
I came across this on Ebay. It is an old Rolls Rocket roadster style bike. It has drum brakes and suspension. Anyone seen a bike like this before.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Very old Rolls bike posted by Pat on 9/30/2002 at 10:49:24 PM

AGE / VALUE:   Gold chainguard for Triumph posted by: dave on 9/30/2002 at 8:37:53 PM
Picked up a mid '60s womens Triumph over the weekend ... nothing special about the bike but I liked to gold color. I've seen a couple of gold Raleighs around town and like them ... anyway, the bike is complete except for the chainguard -- anyone have one of these for cash or trade? While clearly I would prefer a Triumph, any other brand that was a good match for the color would be acceptable.


ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rod-brake handlebars posted by: David Poston on 9/30/2002 at 6:41:53 PM
Does anyone know when Raleigh switched from the rod-brake handlebars that went straight back without the forward curve to the more recent ones, as you would find on the Raleigh Tourist DL-1 in the 70's? I've seen pictures of ones that are straight across the front, curve upwards, and point straight back towards the rider, and I'm not sure when or on which bikes these were used. Maybe these were Phillips or another English make possibly?


AGE / VALUE:   "Harley Earl" Buick commercial posted by: Chip on 9/30/2002 at 5:00:31 PM
"Disgusting Liar! It was my dad who designed those cars!"
Mom finally saw the commercial(s) I told her about.

Don't let others take credit for your work. Work for yourself, in this world. was the advice she had for me.
What all Harley got credit for, that was actually other men's creations is just now being told. It's interesting, I must say.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:    posted by Mucus on 10/1/2002 at 6:10:43 PM

MISC:   English folders posted by: David on 9/30/2002 at 2:39:36 PM
I just returned from England, where I made a half-hearted and failing effort at bike shops and tips to find a Raleigh Folder. I did see on the street very similar machines from Dawes and other makers. Anyone have any first-hand info on these clones? Are they as good as the Raleighs? Better?

   RE:MISC:   English folders posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 9/30/2002 at 5:00:06 PM
At least yout tried to find stuff and best of all the desire to rescue old vintage British cycles for fun and interest and potental profit is in your heart and that is wonderful.
Keep trying, don't lose heart. It's a numbers game, keep looking wherever you go.
Find something valuable and you get to play the best numbers game there is, Seeing your found bike fetch a nice price on e- bay!
Have you seen Sheldon Brown's page on the Raleigh Twenty?

   RE:MISC:   English folders posted by Robert Bailey on 9/30/2002 at 8:46:56 PM
I found my first Folder about a month ago by placing a message in the General for Sale/Wanted area here on OldRoads. A nice couple in British Columbia have been finding them at garage sales. My second was just dumb luck and was found in the loft at my local bike shop. That one I plan to keep just the frame and replace everything else with updated parts. I plan to have that one finished by Spring. I do recommend Sheldon's page on Twenties. He is the Guru of the Raleigh Twenty Cult.

I cannot speak for the new folder bikes. They seem to be enginering marvels. Not sure how the rides compare. The Twenty is nibble, especially after riding the big wheel English bikes, and much faster than you'd think possible. It has a low center of gravity and is very comfortable. I feel very stable on it. I don't think anyone would fold one and stuff it in a duffle bag unless they were willing to carry around a boat anchor. But you can fold it and put it in your trunk or closet. Those brakes on steel wheels? No way! Alloy rims make a big difference. I love my Sports Bike, but I am really enjoying riding my Twenty. When I can get it away from my Son.

   RE:RE:MISC:   English folders posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/30/2002 at 10:45:40 PM
I don't know if you're after smaller bikes than the Raleigh 20's, I've got an RSW 16 (16'' wheels). This bike seems to be a trade off, It can definately be stuffed into a car trunk, or even a back seat, and most adults can ride it easily. The ride? Well, it's a trade off, flexy, and heavy, and those small wheels don't do much to smooth out the bumps in the road though. It's good for short distances and for chasing your kids around at the park, you can step through the frame very easily. I found mine at a sports consignment store, desparately in need of some TLC. It was the first bike I had to use a hacksaw to take off the cranks just so I could get at the rust-frozen B.B. I get a lot of stares though, especially from kids my son's age who think it's really neat.

   RE:MISC:   English folders posted by David on 10/1/2002 at 2:09:31 AM
Specifically, I was hoping for some info on the Dawes clone and other English bikes that, except for the paint, look EXACTLY like the 20" Raleigh folding bike. I've ridden a Brompton and it's great, but it's not what I'm looking for.

   RE:RE:MISC:   English folders posted by Peter on 10/1/2002 at 9:45:55 AM
David - I think I can help, I have some info. on the Dawes 20" wheel bikes. From memory I don't think they were Raleigh clones. They were called Dawes Kingpin - I have a catalogue at home. They were recommended as the best 20" wheel bike in a 1980s book I have, 'Richards Bicycle Book'. I'll see what I can dig out, it will take a few days.
I like them, and the Raleighs, myself. I don't have one, but still see a lot around, taking old ladies too and from the shops. I think I would only go for a folder with hub gears and dynamo though.
Beware there are many cheap copies running around which don't do the business at all.
I'll get back to you when I find my catalogue.
regards, Peter.

   RE:MISC:   English folders posted by Matthew on 10/2/2002 at 9:27:11 PM
David the Dawes Kingpin is far superior to the Raliegh. I had a Triumph Trafficmaster, the badge engineered version of the twenty as a teenager (well I was very small and my Dad convinced me to have it). The Dawes reputation and build quality are / were better than Raliegh. 1970's TI quality could and should have been better, and was much better than the later dire Tiawanese rubbish that we have had to suffer in recent years.
Folders aren't my cup of tea, but each to his own, the German made Kalkhoff are awful and only the SA three speeds are worth keeping. Puch made some very valiant and well equipped models but they are the ones you can pick up for nothing because they were ridden once and left outside for twenty years.
Do nejoy folding, we have special V-CC rides for the little blighters over here in England and they call them the Origami Rides!

   RE:MISC:   English folders posted by Trealaw Boy on 10/8/2002 at 5:12:32 PM
I'm in the UK and have two Dawes Kingpins and a Raleigh Twenty - all folders. Superficially they are very similar, and indeed some of the components are the same, e.g. rack and the ubiquitous SA 3-speed AW hub.

I would say the Dawes has a superior build quality. The cables run inside the Dawes frame unlike the Raleigh where the cables are clipped to the frame. The rims on my Dawes are 440, the Raleigh has 451. The folding hinge is quite different too. Here I would rate the Raleigh as better. The hinge opend in a horizontal plane as compared to the vertical plance of the Dawes. Notably, I need a alun key to unlock the hinge on one of my Dawes and there is a dedicated lever on the other.

The ride is also different. Both are upright, but somehow the Dawes has a more positive, assured feel to it.

Having said all that, both bikes are good and its worth getting hold of either if you can. Sheldon Brown and Carey Chen have demonstrated that the Twenty can be modernised to great effect, and I reckon the Dawes can be too. I think the Dawes bottom bracket is standard, whereas the Raleigh presents some problems if you wish to replace its bottom bracket.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chaincase posted by: Brian on 9/30/2002 at 1:05:30 PM
Edward, I see from the thread that you need a full chaincase. I would like to help you find one for a 28" rim bike, but I've been looking for that myself-however I have several here in Albany,NY in fair shape for 26" rim Raleigh/Humber/Rudge 3-speeds. Let me know if you are interested? I worked behind a Garland for 20 years in food service-so I can relate to your work.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Chaincase posted by Mark R. on 9/30/2002 at 4:05:54 PM
Just a tip: Try selling small but good Raleigh items on eBay. Then when the people contact you to arrainge shippment, ASK them if they have a chaincase. I did so for a while and sure enough, someone eventually DID have one, brand new! it worked for me, it may work for you as well.

AGE / VALUE:   sorry Edward posted by: sam on 9/30/2002 at 1:37:54 AM
Your run of bad luck in finding that full guard is still holding.Hank had several on 28" bikes(not for sale) and none for the 26" English bikes.I did see a guard on an English made bike made for the American market(J C Higgins head badge)that you should be awere of.It "looked" like a full guard but it was really only the front side.Seems they didn't put the back side on some for the USA.Again sorry ,maybe something will turn up--sam

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   sorry Edward posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/30/2002 at 4:27:56 AM
Thanks for looking, Sam. The longer I look for this thing, the more I want it. When I told my local bike-guru (over 80 yrs old)I was loking for one, he told me I was crazy: "It'll take you damn near twenty minutes to fix a flat, if you're indoors with a bike stand, that is"... I've had an offer for just the chaincase, without the pie-plate and gear-end cover. That's starting to look good, although I'm a Chef and not a sheet metal specialist, mmm, lots Bondo maybe..?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   sorry Edward posted by Tim Powell on 9/30/2002 at 10:43:58 AM
Nil Desperandum Edward, the amount of sheet metal work to restore or alter a chaincase is not to onerous. You can make a replacement gear-end cover out of the curved section of a hockey-stick chainguard from a twenty inch bike. The bit that curves over the chain wheel. All you need is some thin sheet metal, some tin solder and a tin snips. The chain wheel cover can be made from a paint tin lid. Best advice is wear some leather gloves when cutting the metal. I find that the metal from 5 gallon cooking oil tins from outside my local 'Chip Shop' is the same gauge as that used on mudguards and chaincases. Make up wooded formers for fettling and buy yourself a wedge tipped sheet metal hammer. If you need any advice Email me and I will send you some diagrams and pictures.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   sorry Edward posted by Edward in Vancouver on 9/30/2002 at 1:47:23 PM
Thanks for all the input, everybody. I think with all this help, I can probably get the chaincase mounted before Christmas. Anybody here use "thorn proof innertubes?

AGE / VALUE:   WTb headlight for '67 Raleigh Superbe posted by: Scott Smith on 9/29/2002 at 9:57:49 PM
I need to buy a headlight to go on my 1967 Raleigh Superbe. Anyone have one of these? I have a Dynohub so the headlight has to be original to the bike. Thanks.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports posted by: Bryant on 9/29/2002 at 7:18:04 PM
Went to the Flea market today and picked up a Men's Raleigh Sports 3 speed. The SA hub says it was made in 1963. It looked in rough shape but restoreable. The fenders are complete without much rust, and the front fender has a chrome bullet on its peak. Very snazzy. Couple of questions though. Are these fairly common?? Where can I find the serial number on the bike?? Is it worthwhile restoring these?? I enjoy the challenge but the bike is too small for me so I would be looking to sell it. What would be a reasonable price?