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Archived: English Roadsters

WANTED:   Need BSA saddle posted by: Ray on 10/21/2002 at 6:25:24 PM
I am in need of a BSA saddle. Actually I just need the leather as the whole frame is there and in great condition but not likely to find leather alone. It is a model that comes on the Paratrooper bike that I purchased this year at Hershey. I want to clean it up and get it on the road. Any leads will be appreciated.

   RE:WANTED:   Need BSA saddle posted by David on 10/22/2002 at 12:13:51 AM
Some of the contributors here have molded new seats for their Brooks saddles with fair success. Perhaps someone will provide more info for Ray. Of course, an old Brooks or other leather saddle could be cannibalized, too.

   RE:WANTED:   Need BSA saddle posted by Ian on 10/22/2002 at 2:50:50 AM
Theperson who estored my Ivel made a wooden block copy of the saddle and then stretched leather that he got from a saddle maker over it. The result is very acceptable. I believe that he kept wetting the leather, stretching it tighter and then letting it dry. The alternative would be to seek out a saddle maker and let him do the job for you. I guess you still have some cowboys in the U.S.A.? Regards, Ian.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Need BSA saddle posted by Skip on 10/22/2002 at 2:19:05 PM
OldRhodes here has some brooks and rights leather seats on the parts page link up the top of this page.

   RE:WANTED:   Need BSA saddle posted by sam on 10/22/2002 at 2:47:41 PM
If you have an old seat top , making the wooden form is simple.The trick is use bondo instead of wood.I taped the under side of a leather top(it was tore)The tape held it together and keep the bondo from stickin to the top.Just mix the bondo and fill the top up with it.Then I traced the form on a piece of 3/4 plywood and cut out an opening the size and shape of the form.place the form on a second piece of plywood,wet the leather and place it on the form,set the cutout over the leather and press form&leather tru the cutout hole using clamps.Let dry.cut to shape.

   RE:WANTED:   Need BSA saddle posted by Pete on 10/24/2002 at 2:31:54 PM
Hello Ray There is a man in the UK who specializes in retopping old saddles and he is a master. He has a lot of the old leather stamps from Brooks and will make patterns for early saddles. I think he does tops for BSA para saddles
He is called Tony Colegrave at pam.colegrave@excite.com.
also I have started my own site at www.oldcyclebits.co.uk
Cheers Pete

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by: Marty Mullins on 10/21/2002 at 5:19:29 PM
I just bought a Raleigh Rod Brake type bike.Really not that into light weights but for $7.00 I thought I should snag this one up.I looked up the sr.# on this site AD14234 the numbers shown all have the letters after the #s? The ADs are 1958s? Is this correct? The bike is black it has a painted on head ID no metal badge. It also has a wierd wald kick stand that attaches to the frame and back to the rear axcel.Leather seat is shot but the springs are painted black and in pretty good shape.No air pump but there are witness marks on tube where one was.It has pin strip on fenders that square off.Missing chain guard.Should it have a chain guard? It has chain tension adjuster screws on rear drop out.26"x1 3/8" uniroyal lightweight tires in pretty good condition.Detachable crank arms. Plain rubber grips W/ no ribbs or name brand. It has a bracket attached to goose neck for a light or something.Chrome all loos like it will clean up except handle bars.Strumy archer rear hub with #aw8marked on it.Missing shifter and cable pulleys.
Did I get a good deal? And are the parts very hard to find? Any info would greatly be appreciated!
THANKS! MARTY EMAIL 6159mart@msn.com

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by jojo on 10/21/2002 at 6:46:31 PM
$7? You got ripped off

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/21/2002 at 8:18:30 PM
Mens or ladies frame? What size frame? measuring from center of pedal crank spindle up the down tube to where the seat post goes in. In inches?
You did well, that bracket alone is worth that.
Hang it up, keep looking for something else. Find the bits and bring it back to life.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by marty on 10/21/2002 at 9:09:13 PM
Its a mens.21" frame.
Thanks MARTY

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by Chris on 10/22/2002 at 12:56:25 AM
The hub marking makes me think it is a 1948 model hub. If it was from 1958 the hub would say so.
7.00 was good
Have you seen the phantom diagrams on this bike under the resources section?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by Marty on 10/22/2002 at 1:40:33 AM
Wow Chris you really got me thinking.I don't know what you mean by phantom diagrams? Do you mean those blow ups? Nothing about dating hub or bike there. hub # AW 8 bike sr# AD 14234?
What is it? MARTY

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by Jeff R on 10/22/2002 at 1:46:58 AM
A 1948 hub has 48 stamped on the hub along with a number indicating the month. The AW 8 should make it a 1938 hub.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by Marty on 10/22/2002 at 2:37:16 PM
YES Jeff R acording to info from Sheldon Browns site single
numbers were only used in the 30s.
Thanks Marty

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Raleigh I Just Bought posted by Chris on 10/22/2002 at 8:12:50 PM
Phantom diagrams, blow ups-same thing.I like the word Phantom better! I was wrong, the hub is from 1938 as you were told.

WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by: William on 10/21/2002 at 12:47:11 PM
Hi guys,it's me again.I'm looking for a Brooks saddle for my Gazelle roadster.Presently,it's fitted with a local vinyl one.Hopefully a NOS or a good used one;with the metal badge,clamp and the bag loops intact.They are quite hard to find over here,most were snapped up long ago.

Personally,I'm looking for a Brooks B 33 or B 90/3,as they are the HD types and the largest,which are great if you have a huge butt like me.Besides,these two look great on an English 28" roadster.But I heard that they aren't the originally fitted items;more like after-sales items.The original ones are B 66,B 72 and B 73,am I right??But they are smaller in size.What do you guys suggest??

Anyone who is interested in helping me out,please do e-mail me.Thank you very much.

With regards,
William from Malaysia.

   RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by Mucus on 10/21/2002 at 3:24:28 PM
There is a guy on eBay that always has Lepper leather saddles. Search under sporting goods, cycling for: "leather" You can get something very nice with springs front and rear for a good price.

   RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by P.C. Kohler on 10/21/2002 at 4:34:29 PM
Original fit or not, I have a B-33 on my DL-1 and DL-1L and they good great and are supremely comfortable. One has the black undercarriage (which I think is more elegant) and the other chromed.

And the Police models had the B-33 factory fitted. The standard factory fit varied over the years, usually a B-72 or B-66.

So go for it!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by David on 10/22/2002 at 12:18:59 AM
New ones are available from Charlie Persons at www.permaco.com, but you probably have a Brooks importer closer to home.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by Ian on 10/22/2002 at 3:00:13 AM
William emailed me about this one but I told him I would want to keep every one I found for the next ten years or so. P.C. do you know of a site that lists the various models of seat and what they were fitted to or does anybody have copies of old Brooks catalogues? It would be nice to know what all the model numbers you all refer to mean. Thanks, Ian.

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by Skip on 10/22/2002 at 2:21:04 PM
Man, there are a bunch of them for sale on this site. Look under parts at the top of this page.

   RE:RE:RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by P.C. Kohler on 10/22/2002 at 3:40:47 PM
Alas the last 1950s Brooks catalogue on eBay went for a small fortune, otherwise I'd have posted the details on Roll Britannia.

Mind, all of these saddles are still made today! But the official Brooks site seems to be off-line of late.

B-33 is the large loop spring (front) and heavy coil spring (back) saddle. The no. 1 saddle in Nigeria apparently!

B-66 is the familiar saddle that was stock issue for DL-1s during much of its production. Two coil springs in the back.

B-72 is the classic Sports style saddle with loop springs in the back.

ANY Brooks leather touring saddle is correct for ANY English cycle. Finding what was factory-fitted depends on if you have the cycle manufacturer catalogues alas. Even then the specs changed a lot.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:WANTED:   Brooks saddle posted by paul on 10/22/2002 at 10:57:31 PM
I have a new old stock Brooks B-72 $45 without clamp $55 with clamp, please add postage. I prefer to ship only within continental US. The saddle has a minor scuff as it sat unsold in a bike shop going out of business. Thanks! Paul

AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by: Trevo on 10/21/2002 at 5:58:12 AM
I have this Royce Union that my Grandpa gave me and Id like to find out how old it is. it Has a 5 speed rear cassette. The derrailiur was really wierd and had dual cables connected to a throttle grip shifer. There is the numbers "333" scattered through out the bike. Hubs,pie plate, cable clamps, and the end of the grips. It has fenders,chrome chainstay, cottered cranks, and white wall tires. Araya rims and cantilever brakes I think. The serial number is; 1r25671. I have pictures of it and if anyone can inform me of the age of the bike I would appreciate it. THnaks

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by Edward in Vancouver on 10/21/2002 at 2:34:57 PM
You might want to post this message on the "vintage lightweights" discussion goup as well, those guy might be able to narrow down the year a little better. Old, really old Shimano components were stamped "333" prior to the early '70's, the 5 speed cassete is definately pre-'80's, and the cottered cranks would be pre '80's as well. The derraileur sounds interesting, is it stamped "333" as well?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royce Union posted by Trevo on 10/21/2002 at 5:27:47 PM
No the derrailur was not stamped 333. The wierd part is that only misc thinngs are stamped 333. Like the spoke protector or "pie plate" And the end of the grips.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Superbe on Ebay last hours posted by: Tom on 10/21/2002 at 4:41:52 AM
Nice Raleigh Superbe frame on ebay with locking fork.No wheels. Not my auction. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1869361006&rd=1

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA Roadster posted by: Michael on 10/21/2002 at 12:27:52 AM

Opening bid is $4950.00(US)! Isn't that just a bit optimistic?

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA Roadster posted by Tom on 10/21/2002 at 4:58:33 AM
I think this is the same one that was on ebay last year for around $8000. I remember it was from Canada. Wow I would think about it if it was NOS.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA Roadster posted by Mucus on 10/21/2002 at 12:57:18 PM
I personally e-mailed this guy to try to make him understand that this bike is only worth less than $200 US. Maybe if it were in new condition, it MIGHT be worth $1000, but even that would be doubtful. I've seen many sell on eBay for less than $200 that were in ridable shape.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA Roadster posted by Michael on 10/22/2002 at 12:38:10 AM
Good, I was beginning to think I had picked the wrong hobby.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   BSA Roadster posted by michael k on 10/22/2002 at 4:08:47 PM
Well, what in the hell is this guy thinking then? Perhaps he's trapped in a bubble and doesn't get out much--obviously his contact with the outside world is limited...

I swear, when I first looked at the auction, I said: "Now, what in the world am I missing here? This thing is somehow worth almost five grand? Is there an error with where the decimal is supposed to go in the price??" Thank god for the responses, I thought I was losing it...

AGE / VALUE:   Sturmey Archer replacement triggers posted by: David Poston on 10/20/2002 at 11:41:56 PM
I want NOS Sturmey Archer triggers for my bikes (Sports, DL-1's), and I am beyond caring whether the part is correct, as long as 1) IT WORKS WELL and 2) IT LOOKS GOOD (i.e. no plastic!). What about these?


Per the seller, these are "replacement shifters made in Japan." I've been told they were used on Schwinns. That's fine. I just want to know if they work as well as the real Sturmey Archer shifters made in England. They look to be metal, not plastic.

You see, these are my options:
1) NOS Sturmey Archer shifter from the 70's or 80's that have the big, ugly, black plastic body and trigger. They probably work fine, but they don't belong anywhere near my bikes.
2) Used Sturmey Archer shifters from the 50's or 60's without the plastic face. All metal, a plus. However, their condition varies, and is not always reliable.
3) These NOS replacement shifters from Japan. Not period correct, but not plastic either. And they're brand new. What do you think?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sturmey Archer replacement triggers posted by P.C. Kohler on 10/21/2002 at 12:21:06 AM
Japanese? JAPANESE? David... really?! What can you be thinking of???? On a DL-1? When you can get real Made in England Sturmey Archer triggers???? In plastic or metal, anything is better than a non-SA knock off. Trust me. Now, go listen to something by Elgar or Vaughan Williams and get this Japanese knock-off idea out of your head. Right now, your DL-1 won't even know....

P.C. Kohler

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Sturmey Archer replacement triggers posted by sam on 10/21/2002 at 1:37:19 AM
Have you ever checked ebay for top tube qud.shifters.Every now and then Peter has them.Some were non-S/A replacements but still made in England

AGE / VALUE:   New aluminum folding bike by Giant! posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/20/2002 at 8:48:06 PM
It's brand new, in the catalog and on the shop floor!
About $600.00
It is a 20X 1 3/8 tire Aluminum folder with derailer gears!
Rims are recumbent-ish and are aluminum.
I took a spin twice and it is very nice!

Go take a look at this at your Giant dealer today!
A modern, aluminum folder that is a lot of fun.
Great Christmas gift idea too.
Ok, I'll stop.
It was strange because I was asking "When are they gonna introduce an updated Raleigh Twenty style folder in aluminum?" Then he flips open the book and points and next thing I know they sold me a new bicycle next visit! They were stunned to see me buying something new for a change.

Weight -wise)
I have not yet put it up against the older models seen in 'the folding society' page and not yet compared it against the tests of other older models written about in years past.
Tires are an issue too, as this is a size that will take some looking for. I'm gonna order some from Giant to have on hand.
Check web sources for this 20 X 1/3/8 size, perhaps it's no problem to find after all.

I have an older steel folder that is similar to this from long ago and this newer/aluminum version thing takes right off and is a joy to ride compared to the old steel 'Senator' model made in Poland.(diffrent companies,diffrent time, no relation)

Now if they would only offer an aluminum frame folder with 26 inch wheels in the BSA paratrooper style. Same frame, updated transmission, with alloy modern componets!
Have you ever ridden the old BSA folder? They are comfortable and a tireless riding bike. This frame is unique.
One fellow I have an article on, took his around the world!
He had a hybrid gear set up with a Sturmey Archer /Cyclo derailer cog and derailer.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New aluminum folding bike by Giant! posted by Ian on 10/21/2002 at 8:34:16 AM
Chris, have you read the book "Its In The Bag" by Toy Hadland and the late great John Pinkerton? Seems to me you are a prime candidate for a copy of this from the Veteran-Cycle Club (don't ask me why they put a hyphen in the name0, I am not sure if you can buy it from their web site (www.v-cc.org.uk)but you can certainly get an email address to contact them from there. Cost to members is 5GBP and I presume they will sell to non-members. It is devoted to folding and collapsable bikes. If you have any problem getting a copy I am sure there is some-one among us who is an English member who could get it for you. I would happily but it would probably cost more to mail it to N.Z. and back to you than the book is worth. Cheers, Ian.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New aluminum folding bike by Giant! posted by David on 10/21/2002 at 11:08:04 AM
I guess this is the "Halfway" model with one-sided fork and stays. Does this arrangement seem adequately strong? Is this achieved with a special asymmetrical axle used in otherwise-standard hubs? Can you tell us the min and max distances of the saddle from the low point of the pedal (my standard measurement for adjusting saddles) ? Sounds like a cool bike - maybe I should plan a LBS visit and test ride!

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New aluminum folding bike by Giant! posted by Matthew on 10/21/2002 at 6:00:46 PM
Chris, the Giant should be pounds lighter than a Raliegh concrete mixer. I was encouraged to buy and ride one of the Raliegh twenty variants, a Triumph Traffic Master (later Traffic Masters were standard 26" wheel models), in my teens. I never lived down the ribbing (derision) that I got for riding that bike. I rode it thousands, honestly, of miles. To and from school, to work, at college and for pleasure. I attribute my strong thigh muscles to this bike.
Sorry moan over, the Twentys were heavy but reliable, over engineered and should be around when most shimano equiped ATB / MTB's are in skips / dumpsters. The idea of an aluminium folder is not new but the Bickerton is very quirky. A regular style and size folder will find a market, even if it won't become a world best seller.
20" X 1-3/8" tyres are easily available in the UK so I can't see why they should be difficult to get in the US of A. After all we don't tend to make them in the UK, they came from Taiwan or the rubber producing parts of the world.
Any chance of a photo of the latest addition to your fleet or do Giant have a website? Have fun on the new bike, don't forget your helmet!!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Thoughts about new folding bike and old parts availability posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/21/2002 at 10:05:53 PM
I have old ads and old articles announcing the 'new Triumph Traffic master bike'. The 26 inch standard wheel version, that is.
I love the Raleigh Twenty's in all their various guises. Also have Moulton debut articles from the Earls Court Cycle and Motor show, reviews on Moulton's early bikes too. The Raleigh Twenty reviews or even the ads, I don't think I have these, perhaps.
The silver colored paint on the new Giant folder is ok, but does not thrill me very much. It could have been jazzier, a brilliant yellow, carmine red or something attractive and sharp. The paintwork is understated and perhaps that's for a reason? I was looking for other colors, but no.
Rear rack arrangement on the Giant is so- so. More effort could have been made into making it into an aluminum, folding shopper type grocery getter. That would have been awesome! Why do I have to hop up something brand new. A re- hopping up, already? Giant should have thought of all that possibilities already and have it all wrapped up and on the floor. Bike is designed for a modern derailer set up. No droping in older Sturmey Archer hubs of any kind. The rear spacing is too wide, and the new Sturmey hubs from Taiwan with the new longer axles? You could, if you can get them. I have not looked into those. In have not heard of it being out anyways. I'll have to look in the books again and see who can get what. Perhaps an 8 speed Sturmey-Archer hub in the giant? It has been mentioned recently. It's enclosed, no derailer gears except for hybrid purposes! Hey, Cool!
The dealer books only show a small smattering of Sturmey parts in one little box on one page. That's not good. I'm thinking of putting together some pages from the web to leave at some area shops to help to fend off this "You can't get it anymore, obsolete, parts" routine type singsong garbage they are always telling people. I'd like to but,just perhaps passing along the web address and advising that folks look it up and see for themselves would be appropriate. I'm passionate and willing to give the effort, but I'm no internet vintage bike/hobby rep for the nations shops. One is needed I believe. They will be able to flip thru and see the various web sites that sell all sorts of English bicycle replacement parts. I want to suggest something that will these keep these bikes alive. If the customer wants a new bike that's ok. If they want parts for the beloved Rudge, Raleigh or whatever is sitting on the floor in front of them (a bit dusty maybe) they should be able to know that parts can be ordered for it.Thats the whole purpose of doing business on the web, isn't it? So a customer and you can get hooked up and product then sold and shipped and quickly and hassle free too? Right? It's a shame the internet is not on the shop counter of every bicycle shop. A quick web check to see about Sturmey Archer parts or whatever it is you have a question about. Whatever it is. Why put a new seat on the road bike from the shops miniscule inventory? You could look at seats at a number of locations until you see cycle seats in your sleep. What's on e- bay is a question every customer should ask. It opens up the doors to the things you currently think are not available, but really are. You pay and arrange shipping. You wait a little bit but you selection is multiplied by a lot. People say, I didn't know that! They offer these on e- bay, really? Folks are not aware how so much bike stuff is jumping on the web. With shops and business and companies worldwide and they are on the web today, the majority of them. Perhaps when more computers are smaller and worn and carried will people stop to look in the web at the shop with the bike in front of them, will this change.
Look at the stuff they offer here at Old Roads! Not bad eh?
The shops say to them, "You can't get it" and I know better but the customer does not and if you interrupt the shop salesman they don't like that. I was pointing to all the parts of the bike and telling them about oldroads.com and what all was really available and how it could be sent to her door or the shop of her choice where it could be installed. She wrote down Old Roads.com
I'm thinking, only one shop perhaps another that I know of, where they know me. Nothing beyond that. Just get the word passed on.
But you know, it's not a bad idea, really!
A catalog of web related sites and shops that cater to customers with older bikes. A fingertip guide book maybe?
Remaining inventory of old parts would be sold quicker than it already is. Sell this stuff, don't let it sit on shelves any longer. There is no 'junction box' point at the shops concerning old cycle parts. Not really, and that is not good from our standpoint is it?
Maple Island Sales got the Schwinn arrangement to supply re-pop parts. That's the closest it's recently come. And how many shops are going to really pass the word and get the customer hooked up with whatever will be available? Older Schwinn related parts is what that's about too. But Maple Island supplies quite a lot of things, don't they?
The customer will have to dis regard the shop folks attitude and go and do a web search themselves and open up the wonderful world of vintage bicycles by themselves via the web or by the chance of hearing about a bike swap meet. How many will pursue it beyond somebody telling them you can't get parts? You can search out anything on the net. Beanie babies to vintage car parts to freeze dried food, almost anything! It's a new dawn. People say all the time "I can't afford that, do you have something cheaper?" These folks get waved on and the next customer comes up to the plate. Why not order parts and charge labor and fix the customers bike, whatever it is?
Some places refuse to work on these bikes and they referr the lady and her Raleigh to another area shop that is willing to handle it. Or because the shops are manned by young people that don't know how to even adjust the indicator chain, let alone hub overhaul work. This is common today. They are schooled in the new bikes and how to service a customer concerning them. Thankfully, the older folks who teach the younger mechanics will know and remember the old Schwinns or Raleighs. With the young summer- type shop help, There is no real enthuiasm taken, little more than a spot of curriousity mostly, and they say "I don't know". They shake their heads and refuse to get into it unless somebody older is on hand who is willing to. Plus the situation with whatever parts are on site to do repair work. Heck, we have issues with tires alone and there is no reason for that.Repairing a bike is an important part of the business and it brings in good money for the shops. Make them a customer and they'll come back to you for a new bike. Right?
He told me, "That stuff's all dead!" Good heavens, It certainly is not! I replied "Ever see the internet?" The net has breathed new, vigorous life into far more than just vintage cycles!

To carry this new Giant aluminum folding bike, you grab the seat and it is a bit awkward and the part about carrying it onto bus/ trains/ trams was not thought out enough. (I think.) Still a bit heavy for that. Perhaps I am wrong about this. This is still convient and it beats walking! I'll take another look on the bike for some resemblance of a handle.
Yes, this is the single fork blade model which is a neat trick.
Still nice and it's a goer!

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Thoughts about new folding bike and old parts availability posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/22/2002 at 12:31:59 AM
I was thinking of another model when I said that you cannot put a older Sturmey-Archer hub in the aluminum Giant folding bike. I was mistaken, the new Giant folding bike has one fork blade in the front and the rear so changing out the rear hub for something else is out of the question.
At least I have never seen a Sturmey hub on a one blade fork type machine.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   New aluminum folding bike by Giant! posted by David on 10/22/2002 at 12:39:27 AM
I'll be brief:

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:Thoughts about new folding bike and old parts availability posted by Mucus on 10/22/2002 at 1:14:12 AM
Oh my God! Chris, can you run that all by me again?

AGE / VALUE:   Take a look! Excellent. posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/20/2002 at 8:43:45 PM
Updated/added to article with strategies for upgrading with newer parts.
Spindle mysteries brought into clear focus!

Thank You, Sheldon!

AGE / VALUE:   Royal Crown posted by: Dennis on 10/20/2002 at 6:58:33 AM
I got this bicycle about a year ago. The head badge says Royal Crown Made in England. It is a womens model originaly painted dark blue but now it is blotchy faded hidious green. The back wheel was replaced with a Shimano single speed freewheel on a Maillard hub. But they left the cable pulley with a STEEL PULLEY. It has 4 parts and they are all stamped "SA" with a circle. Here is my point: It doesn't have Raleigh dropouts. Do i have that rarist of rarities: a non Raleigh made english 3 speed? Well it is rare to me at least. I few days ago i pulled a Phillips (12 64) out of a garbage pile and took it home and compared it to my Hercules (3 69). They are way different, but the frames and chainguards are identical. Whereas the Royal Crown has different lugs and it has an oil port on the bottom bracket. The seat stay ends are different, the RC has a taller headtube and it's stem extention is the same style as the Phillips but shorter. Maybe because it is a womens model. The fenders are aftermarket i believe, because of the condition. The chainguard is the same as on the 2 Raleigh made bikes. Who knows what is original on this bike?
The front fork has stamped dropouts but also the things to attach the fender stays to. It seems they cut a slit in the fork tube, stuck the fender-stay-holder in, and then stamped it. It also has real nice brazed on pump holders on the down tube.
And btw, finding that Phillips in the trash was a WAY big deal. It was with the tiniest of disillusionment to discover that at its heart, it was a Raleigh. Which is what made me take a 2nd look at this ugly Royal Crown that i was using for parts.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royal Crown posted by Warren on 10/20/2002 at 4:53:03 PM
SA or Sturmey Archer was used by all the roadster manufacturers and therefore has nothing to do with Raleigh per say. Your Royal Crown is just that although it's possible it was made by another factory and rebranded. It sounds like a fifties bike...early sixties at the latest.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Royal Crown posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/20/2002 at 9:17:23 PM
Phillips was swallowed up by Raleigh in like 1960-63 in there. Exactly when, I'd have to look up. Even after the Raleigh merger Phillips had marvelous decals (transfers)

MISC:   Sturmey Archer adds class to anything posted by: Ted R. on 10/20/2002 at 12:45:34 AM
probably The direct opposite of a English Roadster is a muscle bike of the '60s. When I found a '69 Schwinn Stingray fastback with S A 3-speed, in metalic red no less, I had to have it. Such contrast; the grace of a SA 3-spd. hooked up to a "Stik-Shift" nine inch tall shifter. Strange to think that it has the same hub as my DL-1, it adds class to an otherwise angry little bike! How far back did Schwinn use SA hubs, I've seen a '53 Varsity with one, this bike really looked like a Raleigh copy, but it was a nice machine.

   RE:MISC:   Sturmey Archer adds class to anything posted by sam on 10/20/2002 at 4:02:07 AM
Can't say how far back Schwinn used S/A hubs , but Huffy used then in the teens!

   RE:RE:MISC:   Sturmey Archer adds class to anything posted by Trevo on 10/20/2002 at 7:27:25 AM
I found a Sturney Archer hub on what claimed to be a "schwinn tubular rim". Never seen one on a varsity before. Thats an option for my red varsity's fate.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Sturmey Archer adds class to anything posted by Jeff R on 10/20/2002 at 2:44:48 PM
My 1st FW 4 speed came off a Schwinn. It is dated 1948. I only bought the rear wheel, hub, and shifter. Someone else bought the rest of the bike.

   RE:RE:RE:MISC:   Sturmey Archer adds class to anything posted by Jeff R on 10/20/2002 at 2:45:39 PM
My 1st FW 4 speed came off a Schwinn. It is dated 1948. I only bought the rear wheel, hub, and shifter. Someone else bought the rest of the bike.

AGE / VALUE:   Huret Alvit,Svelto overhaul guides/another rant about removal of pulley wheels/ tools posted by: humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/19/2002 at 3:47:35 PM
Aww! It's stuck!!! rrrrr!
Removing that stubborn second pulley in the Huret Alvit derailer. Metal jockey wheel version.
Now I have walk thru diagrams for the Huret Alvit and the Svelto too!
These things get set in and won't come loose!
I have to soak it in ammonia and then soak in W.D. 40 and then try to use a screwdriver but I am so bothered with this I am going to make a blooming tool that fits in there. A thin steel tool to grip those tiny flats on the pulley wheel's end pieces and turn it loose so I can overhaul those tiny bearings. Putting it back together, not a problem.
You cannot remove the wheels by putting it in a vise. Not enought material.
One sheet has you overhauling it in a vise and another has you overhauling it on the bike. I prefer to use a vise.
Old tools, all the crazy obsolete old tools I can lay my grubby little paws on. Yes, I'll bet Huret had a tool that reached in there and unscrewed those wheels with. It's out there, somewhere!
Now, if I let it soak and vibrate itself silly in the untra sonic parts cleaner, It may come loose easily. Yes, I'll do that.
It was interesting how when I rode this thing on the bike how after I moved the shifter into a lower gear and then immediately after I moved my hand away it shifted back into high gear all by itself. Scarry!
Something was out of adjustment.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Huret Alvit,Svelto overhaul guides/another rant about removal of pulley wheels/ to posted by Jeff on 10/21/2002 at 12:35:10 AM
Park offers some skinny little angled brake wrenches in sizes from 10mm to 14mm I believe. One of these should work. I've had a few of these apart but I don't remember what I used to do it.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Huret Alvit,Svelto overhaul guides/another rant about removal of pulley wheels/ posted by Bikenutz on 10/21/2002 at 12:39:56 AM
If the bike shifts from low to high on it's own the shifter tension screw or nut is too loose. Derailleur pulleys carry a very light load so perfect lubrication isn't a big issue. On the ones I couldn't tear apart, I just soaked them in solvent, blew them out with compressed air, and shot some 50W oil in the bearings.

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Huret Alvit,Svelto overhaul guides/another rant about removal of pulley whee posted by Chris on 10/23/2002 at 12:49:48 AM
Na, I understand that's what A lot of folks do and it works out ok but I like to replace rusty and or pitted ball bearings and add actual grease like God intended! I look for pitted or grooved bearing race cup thingies and replace them! I'm not in a shop where a boss is leaning over my shoulder and telling me to hurry.

I'm the customer that's going to ride the thing, and therefore I go to a bit more of a higher standard with it.
It's bad enought it is not 1964 where I could just say to them"Replace parts, sell me all new parts" New parts for these are hard to find so they get overhauled all the way to the hilt.

WANTED:   Raleigh Sports long handlebar stem posted by: Robert Bailey on 10/18/2002 at 4:09:04 AM
I have a Raleigh Sports and I think the stem is too short. I set my saddle in the proper place and the handlebars are now a good bit below the saddle. I checked and the stem is about as high as it will go. Does any one have, or know a source for, a long handlebar stem?

   RE:WANTED:   Raleigh Sports long handlebar stem posted by Jeff R on 10/18/2002 at 8:43:04 PM
Check out ebay # 724001254. It's a long stem. Not my auction.

   RE:WANTED:   Raleigh Sports long handlebar stem posted by Mark on 10/19/2002 at 4:46:19 AM
It sounds like your real problem is that the frame is too small for you. With a too small frame, the seat post is over extended to get the saddle a proper distance from the pedals, to accomodate your leg length. But the handlebars can't be raised proportionally. Even if you do get an extended stem, and raise the handlebars to a comfortable height, it's likely that the reach from the saddle position to the handlebars will wind up being too short. You'll feel cramped up on the bike. This is because frame top tubes are also proportionally longer on larger frames.

The old rule about stand-over height might serve as a guide for you. Simply straddle the bike in your riding shoes with your feet flat on the ground. If you can pick the bike up more than about two inches before it bumps into your pubic bone, then the frame's probably too small.

   RE:RE:WANTED:   Raleigh Sports long handlebar stem posted by alonzo on 10/19/2002 at 9:28:42 PM
I've wondered about this. It makes sense that top tubes would be proportionally longer on larger frames. But when I measure my two Raleigh Sports, 21-inch and 23-inch, I find the top tube is the same on both 22 inches.

What gives? I figure this means the frame geometry is different on the two, but I haven't measured.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by: Tom on 10/17/2002 at 10:35:29 PM
I got the 28" Raleigh DL1 style roadster I mentioned in an earlier posting. It has 28" wheels, single speed with rod brakes. The chaincase is a loop around the entire chain, but no covering. I have not seen a covered chaincase in person so I don't know if this one is normal or missing parts. The bike is all black, no chrome on it anywhere. No chrome under the paint. Paint is not great. The serial number AH74090 on the seat post, the numbers and letters are not stamped straight, poorly done. On the other side at the top is stamped 1151 nice and straight. No headbadge but a Raleigh transfer. Also a transfer on the seat post "The all steel bicycle" in block letters. Tubular rear rack. A nice old frame mount lock with the key in it. It is mounted under the seat. Parts of the front brake is missing but not hard to find. Seat is a vinyl replacement. Does anyone know how old this bike would be. The frame is very tall 25 1/2" C-C. Where on the web can I see a closeup of a chaincase.I can get pics in a few days.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/18/2002 at 1:07:40 AM
You win the prize and prize it really is, because a bike with a locking fork in this size is rare!
You have a key in the thing too.
Anything with 28 inch wheels and rod brakes that has a frame larger than the common 24 inch frame size is rare, very seldom seen, hardly ever offered on e- bay either.

My Raleigh Superbe with the 28 inch wheels and locking fork is only a 24 inch frame size. You have one that I don't have, and that is really something there to be proud of.

Take your serial number and see if you fit in the serial number guide we have posted here. Have you see Sheldon Brown's site at Sheldonbrown.com?
These extra tall frame models 26 and 28 inch frames were discontinued by the early- mid 1950's! The D.L.1. tourists became standard 22 or 24 and then only the 22 inch frame was offered.

I paid $675.00 for a 26 inch frame Raleigh and it was not the locking fork model like you have! Well done, excellent old Raleigh bicycle luck you have there!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by Tom on 10/18/2002 at 2:41:41 AM
Chris, The lock is not a fork lock but a circular lock that is mounted under the seat just above the fender. There is a lions head on it and a name HAHA on it. The key cannot be removed from it until it is locked.
I checked the serial number chart and it is not there. I also went to Sheldons and didn't find a chart. I will look again.
The fenders are not like the Raleighs I have seen. These are round with no peaks. Again I have not seen these before. There is red pinstriping and now I look hard and see a little gold stripes but very worn off.
The strange thing about this bike is it is all black. Not a bit of chrome. The rims are black with pinstripes. I took the cotter pins out and they are all black. The BB axle is stamped A8 G. The rear hub has no markings at all, has a Sturmey Archer threaded freewheel. Axle is thin like the front one.
The brakes are all black also. I will get some of the parts I need from Vin if he will ship to Canada.
I have 2 new tires for it.
I had a post a week ago about the whitewall tires in NOS. I wasn't able to get any for now. I have an order for some if the supplier can get them.
I did get 2 new enclosed chaincases from Holland. These have a metal frame and a fabric cover of some type. They are black with gold stripes. They have no holes in them so you can cut them to size. The cover is nice looking. I will have to look at them closer in the next days.
Back to the Raleigh. When did Raleigh use transfers instead of a headbadge. Any other info would be appreciated.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by Tim Powell on 10/18/2002 at 3:59:26 PM
It sounds like a pre 1920 Raleigh to me. That lock on the rear seat stay sounds familiar. A picture would help.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by Tim Powell on 10/18/2002 at 4:03:40 PM
Forgot to say that the loop around chaincase is the frame for a canvas one. Very old idea but good. You should get some oil cloth and get one made. It just laces on.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by sam on 10/18/2002 at 5:13:17 PM
That lock is or was common . And still made in someparts.Mine says Hartman.As for the black out parts.There was a reference to this a few weeks ago.But I got CRS today.so you'll have to back pedal.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by michael k on 10/18/2002 at 10:58:04 PM
Wow, I'm looking forward to some pictures...when you get those, can you email them out to me or post them? Very interested...

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/19/2002 at 2:50:37 PM
Me too.

   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Old Raleigh DL1 posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 10/20/2002 at 9:34:58 PM
I have the metal frame, original. It could be replicated/reproduced without much bother.Cool huh?

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   message for Edward posted by: David Poston on 10/17/2002 at 10:17:19 PM

After repeated attempts to send you an e-mail, here it is...

ES wrote:Don't know what your situation is with excess
parts for English roadsters, but I'm looking for a "pie plate", that is
a cover for an enclosed chaincase. Pretty sure this part is the same
for 26"and 28"roadsters. Any info about this would be great. E. Suter,
Vancouver, B.C.(A.K.A. Edward in Vancouver)


I recently learned what a "pie plate" is, having just got my first 28"
chaincase from Harvey Russell of cyclesofyesteryear.com in England.
This part would not be the same size for 26" and 28" roadsters. You need
to find a plate for your specific size. I would say your chances of
finding such a part separate from the chaincase are pretty slim. What I
would do is just get a whole new chaincase. The Indian-made ones
(Avon, I think, is the brand?) are relatively easy to obtain and virtually
identical to the original ones, as far as I can tell.


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   message for Edward posted by Edward in Vancouver on 10/17/2002 at 11:51:15 PM
Still problems with my server, this is driving me nuts. Actually, I just recieved a chaincase this week, great shape, but missing the "pieplate". I've hit every Valuevillage and shop that sells kitchenware, looking for a shallow pan 81/4" in diameter, but no luck. I'll be stripping the whole chaincase and painting it, so I really don't care what the piece looks like. Guess I'll have to "invent" something... Anyone out there have any patterns?