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Archived: English Roadsters

AGE / VALUE:   Shoe polish update posted by: Chris on 11/20/2002 at 1:56:40 AM
Kiwi shoe polish VS. Kellys brand. Which brand of polish makes the bike look great and what brand did not even come close?
The Kellys brand went down in flames!
Also, the little thingie on the Kiwi tin that you turn to pop open the tin was not found on the Kellys brand tin. Also, the tin itself was not nearly as air tight. Kellys brand is relegated to shoes unless shoe repair folks dismiss it there as well. The Kellys brand has a dye in it and I was told it was stronger stuff. It did not do a better job on the bike paint than the Kiwi.

   What about Turtle Wax Color Cure? posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 6:20:58 AM
Turtle Wax makes a bottle of Color Cure Wax which comes in black. It contains some dyes which probably help out with scratches. The same concept as the Kiwi shoe wax, but designed for painted surfaces (i.e., your car, or in this case, your bicycle). Kiwi shoe wax is designed for leather, a much more porous substance than metal. Anyone want to venture out on a limb and try this? It should be available from any local auto parts store.


   RE:What about Turtle Wax Color Cure? posted by Cal on 11/20/2002 at 2:43:40 PM
I still say the kit sold here works best. The cleaning oil does something to old Raleigh paint. It does more than just putting a coat of wax over the old paint.

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by: Christopher on 11/20/2002 at 1:40:44 AM
The 26 X 1 3/8 rims cleaned up extremely well. They really look awesome! Up very close there is some minor damage to the chrome. It sat too long unattended. They look really great until you get up close enought to touch and then you notice. Also, the rim sides have rusty marks that did not come out with bronze wool.
Later rims are all chrome and then sometime after this, Whoosh! The quality of these pattern /size rims went down hill quiickly. They switched to a thinner metal and then peeling chrome became common.
The dull or un-chromed center section sparkles in a silvery sheen. Re- laced with stainless steel spokes and an alloy shelled F.W. they will add lustre to a future project.
You have to catch one of these that was made at just the right window in time and with a little luck then you'll have a good, solid, sharp looking pair of wheel rims.

   Bronze wool vs. steel wool; Raleigh chrome posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 6:26:28 AM
Bronze wool? What about steel wool? I tried the VVVintage kit bronze wool initially, but I think it was too coarse. I felt like I was scratching with it instead of rubbing. Fine grade steel wool worked a lot better for me. I know, I've heard lots about steel wool scratching chrome, but it seems to me that bronze wool is doing the same thing, it just takes longer. Basically, you have to scratch off the surface rust, which includes the top layer of chrome. I don't think it would matter what kind of abrasive you use, as the same depth of surface material is removed.

I know there are others who rant against steel wool, and I'm curious to know why. Maybe you can explain?

On the Raleigh rims, when did they start to go downhill? Three of my bikes are post 1970. Does that mean I got low quality rims?


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Ray on 11/20/2002 at 2:28:19 PM
I have to agree with David. I have cleaned more chrome than I care to discuss. Bronze wool just increases the amount of work you have to do to get the same results. In some cases bronze wool is not effective at all. I use 0000 steel wool and sometimes mix in some good ol No.7 chrome polish and get a fantastic result. If the chrome is beat than no wool will bring it back. You can't turn lead into gold and you can't polish chrome where there is none left. The quality of the chrome is more a factor than the wool you use. If it is Schwinn chrome then you have a good chance of bringing it back. If it is Raleigh or English bike or Columbia chrome then good luck. I really like when I find one of these bikes with the chrome all covered with grease or paint then I have half a chance of reviving it. Most often this cheap chrome pits and peels and you are left with nothing but bare steel that no wool or polish will help.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Cal on 11/20/2002 at 2:48:59 PM
The steel wool is going to leave spider marks in the chrome while the bronze wool will not. The bronze wool is softer than steel wool (but way better than a Scotchbright pad or #7 polish or a toothbrush), and steel wool leaves microscopic bits of iron on and in your chrome. These bits start to rust immediately and they also help promote the rusting of your rims.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/20/2002 at 3:40:27 PM
Ray... I find it depends on the age of the English chrome. Post mid 70s, it's crap. But nothing can match the chrome of a 1950s English cycle in all its rich and lustrious blue-tinged glory.

But rims... RIMS.. R I M S!! We just need to get OldRoads to do what Cycles of Yesteryear is doing: import new Westrick and Westwood rims in 32/40 holes. The chrome on these Indian made replacements is at least as good as what Raleigh were making for the last 30 years, some say better. And as Ray says, when the chrome is gone, it's gone.. rechroming gives you mediocre quality at horrific cost and it looks no different in the end than an Indian replacement. And if the Indians could just supply stainless steel rims, we'd have nothing to complain about.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 6:10:01 PM

If I follow up my 000 or 0000 steel wool with some good chrome paste polish (e.g., simichrome), do you think it might remove all the steel wool dust?


   Indian made rims as good as Raleigh? posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 6:49:43 PM

Does that mean my Indian made Westwood 40 hole 28" x 1.5" rim (I assume it's Indian made b/c it's from Harvey) is going to be better than my original 78 Raleigh DL-1 rim? The chrome looks a bit different on the foreign-made rim, perhaps less shiny than the Raleigh ones. I guess time will tell which is the better rim.


   RE:Indian made rims as good as Raleigh? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/20/2002 at 8:07:34 PM
Don't know about Indian rims but I know the chrome on my '78 DL-1 rims was worn off to bare steel in a few years. Of course I'd still prefer to keep the original English made components but when we acquire bikes with hopelessly rusted rims (as 75 per cent seem to have), we need to find some ready replacements. All my mail to Raleigh Industries, Lenton Blvd., Nottingham, England, comes back "Addressee Unknown... moved to Third World"

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Stacey on 11/20/2002 at 8:42:47 PM
There are a lot of valid points made here, both pro & con for steel wool. I think it's all a matter of what we've become comfortable with... sorta like the wedgie vs 'bent controversy.

Myself, I'm a copper wool proponent. The copper is softer than steel... but I don't know how chrome compares on the Rockwell scale to either of the above. I do know and have experienced firsthand situations where steel woool has scratched chrome that copper hasn't... and I've seen some real cheesy chrome that even copper will scratch! So, I guess in the end it's all a matter of personal preference.

To me I'll err on the side of precaution and stick with my copper... besides with copper I don't have to worry about those awful 'splinters' in my fingers that steel wool will give you. And yes, steel wool has made my chrome bloom a nice rust orange in relativly short order.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Ray on 11/20/2002 at 10:05:14 PM
Don't know what kind of steel wool you folks are using but a good quality 0000 steel wool will not splinter in your skin and is as soft as a baby's butt. That bronze wool is like working with barbed wire. It rubs off more skin than rust. In either case if you do a lot of bike restoration you should use gloves. I have done over 80 bikes with this method and never had any rust haze re-appear. Of course I do keep my bikes in a dry environment an out of the rain. I will also put up No.7 chrome polish against any on the market. It is a little messy but what great results. Try it you'll like it!

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 11:07:03 PM
Does bronze wool come in a fine grade like 000 steel wool? If so, then I think we have our problem solved.


   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Jeff R. on 11/21/2002 at 12:18:52 AM
I always use 0000 Steel Wool with semi-chrome or Top Brite chrome polish. I've used it on all of my 50's & 60's bikes. The old chrome cleans up really nice. The rims made before 1965 or 1966 had either Raleigh or Dunlop marked on them. After that date, they have Sturmey Archer on them. The quality of the chrome seems to have deteriorated about that time. Good chrome plating is a 3-step process of copper, nickel and chrome. The soft copper is polished and this is what makes everything smooth. The nickel protects and prevents corrosion, the chrome is very hard and shiny, however, it is pourous and depends on the copper and nickel to prevent corrosion. The steel wool with semi-chrome or Top Brite will not scratch it - - it's that hard. It's a lot easier using steel wool than bronze wool.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Edward in Vancouver on 11/21/2002 at 5:40:01 AM
Gentlemen, (and ladies) please reveal your sources for obtaining copper or bronze wool. I've covered alot of hardware and painting stores but I always get blank looks when I request bronze wool. I even went as far as to ask a rodent exterminator (rodents hate chewing on steel wool, and thus it gets stuffed in a lot of cracks in places you wouldn't think of...), but I got the blank look again. Then again I'm the kind of guy who'll walk into a notorious Harley-Davidson dealership with a S.A. drum brake to get info on where to reline the shoes. Actually, most of those guys thought the hub was pretty neat...

   RE:RE:Indian made rims as good as Raleigh? posted by michael on 11/21/2002 at 6:30:33 AM
I don't know about Indian rims either, but the rims on EVERY Chinese roadster are rusty. Mine showed signs of rust along the brake tracks after just a few months. Mind you, it was used in all weathers and in the caustic fug which constitutes air over here. Isn't it nice that a kindly bicycle thief saved me from seeing my lovely roadster deterioate any further?

   RE:RE:RE:Indian made rims as good as Raleigh? posted by Jeff R on 11/21/2002 at 3:16:20 PM
You should be able to find bronze wool at marine supply shop. You can't use steel wool on a boat that is used in salt water.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:Indian made rims as good as Raleigh? posted by Stacey on 11/21/2002 at 3:57:36 PM
Check you grocery, near the dish soap. Much cheaper than paying those outrageous 'Marina Mark-Ups'!

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:Indian made rims as good as Raleigh? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/21/2002 at 4:30:37 PM
YES!!! Forget hardware stores, it's called a "Pot Scrubber" and it's in any grocery store....

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh Sports Wheel rims 26 X 1 3/8 posted by Cal on 11/22/2002 at 2:14:18 PM
In reply to David's question a ways back, no i don't think the polish will clean out all of the steel wool dust. I'd soap and re-wash the chrome if you're trying to remove the steel wool bits.

Have you guys noticed how long a ball of bronze wool lasts when compared to a ball of steel wool? The bronze wool lasts probably 20 times longer. The steel wool, in addition to scratching your chrome, breaks up and turns to fine dust with each use.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28" roadster posted by: David Poston on 11/19/2002 at 10:47:07 PM
This might seem a foolish question, but here goes:

What parts must one remove when taking off front and back wheels from a 28" roadster (ala DL-1) with rod brakes and back stays that slot rearwards?

I've discovered, obviously, that breaking the chain is essential when the rear fork slots go rearwards instead of forwards, like a Sports. I'm switching from an unbroken chain to one with a master link, which I was able to order from this site. No doubt I will have questions regarding the master link when it arrives...

Now, let's start with the front wheel. Which part of the rod brake assembly goes off?

Back wheel. OK, the chain, and the rod brake assembly, and maybe the rear mudguard, too?

Now, what I need is one of those Park bicycle repair stands. (Right now, I am making do with a rickety, wooden ladder. I'm just waiting for a big CRASH when I'm gone for a split second). Has anyone tried putting a heavy roadster on one of the Park stands? Do they bear the weight with ease?


   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by Tom on 11/20/2002 at 1:09:27 AM
David: For the front wheel you should be able to take 1 or 2 of the brake pads off and the wheel should slip out. Same for rear. For the rear if the chain is good you can get the extra chain length by removing the cotter pin and slipping the crank off the bb axle. You would have to remove the chainguard. If you are replacing the chain then a chain pin remover will work. The new chain most likely will have a simple to use master link.

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by michael on 11/20/2002 at 4:48:52 AM
Definately don't remove the mudguard, that'd be a waste of effort. It'll have enough flex to accommodate the rear wheel's removal. The cotter pin sounds a bit fiddly. In 10 years as a bike mechanic I very rarely had to remove a chainwheel in order to remove a rear wheel, and I worked on a fair number of roadsters, track bikes and BMXs in that time!
The master link will consist of a link, a plate and a circlip. Be gentle with the circlip; as a kid I ruined a couple before discovering the right technique! Hopefully You'll get 2 master links with your chain. When fitting the circlip, remember "the fish swims down river". This advice applies especially to Motorbikes (which use exactly the same system) but should be followed by bicycle mechanics too. What it means is the open side (the tail) of the circlip should be facing opposite to the direction of rotation. Look at the clip and all should become obvious. Oh, and when fitting the new chain, make sure the wheel is sittinng at least a 1/4 inch back in the slots. Then, when you need to pull the wheel out you can slide it foward that precious fraction of an inch, and "deraill" the chain off the chainring. No need to remove anything. I'm presuming here that no chaincase is fitted, that'll make things a ot more complicated!
Park stands are definately robust enough for a roadster; I've thrown (well heaved) a touring bike with four panniers, into one of those sturdy stands. The base is the biggest problem, if you want a free standing, moveable stand then it must have a VERY heavy base. In other words, portable race stands may be a bit light for a roadster; they'll tip too easily. We mounted our park stands onheavy, 100 year old cast iron bases.
However, rather than hook your roadster on a ladder why not use the traditional method? Turn the bike upside down and work on it that way! All the old mechanics would do that for roadsters and sports models and here in China 99% of the "workshops" operate that way. Alternatively, a steel hook mounted on your workbench will hold the back wheel off the ground. Then again, Park stands are VERY nice!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 6:36:46 AM
Since I will be fitting a chaincase, I believe I will need the master link. I was initially perplexed when attempting to follow the instructions in my c. 1950 Raleigh maintenance booklet, for the booklet made reference to a master link on roadster chains. My 1978 DL-1 doesn't have a master link, and this confused me; perhaps, by then, they had started cutting corners?

On the stands, I was considering the portable Park stand. It runs around $130. I'm moving into an apartment, so I wouldn't have a place to mount a permanent stand in the floor.

The upside down trick is, of course, the way the manual instructs, and this method is fine for maintenance except for the fact that I have a bell mounted on my handlebars which will get squashed. Also, I like to have the bike at eye level in good light while I am cleaning it and polishing it with rubbing compound.


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by michael on 11/20/2002 at 7:58:53 AM
Gotta admit, I HATE working on bikes on the ground! Years of workstands have spoiled me! The Park PRS-4 would be plenty good enough for your use.

The chain intrigues me. Even today BMX's, kids bikes, roadsters and other non derailleur bikes come with "conventional" master linked chains. Even the cheapest 1/8 chain comes with 1 or 2 master links. Why would a 78 DL1 not have a masterlink? One thought. British Raleighs were imported into my own country of birth (New Zealand) completely knocked down. Everything had to be done on them, even building the wheels! If they came into the States KayDeed too, then the fitting of chains would've been up to the local shop. Maybe the mechanic hated master links?

Just a thought

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by Ray on 11/20/2002 at 2:42:01 PM
Wow! I have to admit that this all seems like a lot of work to remove a rear wheel. If you are doing a bike with a chaincase then you have to remove the rear case cover and plates. Then you open up the front ring cover. I never remove or break the chain. I loosen the rear axle nuts and move the wheel forward as much as possible. You can flatten the tire to help, this will also help you remove the wheel past the brake pads without removing them. Now that you have pushed the wheel forward turn the crank and push the chain off of the chainring from the top. Just like a derailleur it will jump off of the ring and you now have enough room to pull the wheel out of the rear dropout and pull the chain off. I agree that you need not remove the mud guards. If you break the chain each time you want to remove the rear wheel then you better bring a tool kit along for each time you get a flat on the road during a ride. I guess you already realize that you do not have to remove the front brake pads either. Let the air out of the tire and it will come off easily. If it is the type of brake that pulls against the face of the rim than you need only remove one pad. Try to do as little work as possible to accomplish this. Remember the goal is not to dismantle half the bike to fix a flat.

   Chain mystery posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 6:57:37 PM
This is what I don't understand: My DL-1 chain is under tension (well, say the normal inch or so of play) when the wheel is pushed all the way forward in the slots. Whoever designed this? I guess I could go to a longer chain; that would allow me to slide the back wheel forward and get some slack, but as of now, my only option is a chain rivet extractor (which I had to use to get the wheel off). The chain rivet extractor seems too much work to do each time I need to pull off the back wheel. Seems the master link idea would be the best bet. I'll soon find out if they're easy to use or not.


   RE:Chain mystery posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/20/2002 at 9:15:24 PM
"Each time..." How many times are you tempted to remove the rear wheel of your DL-1? I've had a DL-1 since 1978 and I'd reckon the wheel's been off maybe four times total. And once was to put the enclosed gearcase on. It's PAIN to remove the wheel. And YES the chain has to be broken to make it happen. Since it's such a CHORE to do, it's designed not to be required often. Remember when mending a puncture, only the tube needs be pulled out from the tyre, patched and put back. Tyre stays on rim, tube pulled out only as far to access the puncture and the wheel, thank goodness, stays just where it is.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by Ray on 11/20/2002 at 10:13:43 PM
I agree with P.C. on pulling the tube from the wheel on a repair when the puncture is obvious. Sometimes you have to remove a wheel when it is not so obvious. As for the chain tension being so tight that there is no room for throwing the chain. Tight chains lead to premature bearing wear. Put the bike in a stand and pedal it by hand and let go. If the crank continues to turn your chain is too tight. Also if you hear grinding or the rear wheel does not turn freely or slows down rapidly, your chain is too tight. Make sure when you do this test that your brakes are not rubbing but these are all symptoms of a chain that is too tight.

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Removing wheels from 28 posted by David Poston on 11/20/2002 at 11:04:58 PM

I've been wondering why the cranks turn on my Rudge and Raleigh Sports bikes while I am coasting along with my feet off the pedals, or while I am simply walking the bike along....Could this be because the bearings are overly tight on the back wheels? I'll try adjusting the chain tension to see if that helps. This is odd, because I just had these bikes overhauled at the shop not long ago. Is it normal (even on modern bikes) for the cranks to turn as the back wheel turns?


   RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: adjustment question, Are pedals supposed to rotate along with wheel? posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/21/2002 at 12:49:54 AM
Ask Sheldon Brown this question. While others can answer your question too, Sheldon once discussed this here or somewhere else and he said it so well, too. I'd take a crack at it and try to answer this one but my mind is freezing up on me tonight.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: adjustment question, Are pedals supposed to rotate along with wheel? posted by dafydd on 11/21/2002 at 3:30:20 AM
An inch of chain deflection sounds a tad loose to me. Rotating cranks on a three speed can be due to either a tight chain or tight hub bearing adjustment.

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS: adjustment question, Are pedals supposed to rotate along with whee posted by michael on 11/21/2002 at 6:02:36 AM
Goodness, this one just keeps going. Yes, PC is right, fix the tube in-situ; every Chinese bike mechanic does it this way...and they fix a lot of flats; I calculated that in my small city of 4.6m, whenever I ride my bike I'm on the road with at least a hundred thoudand other cyclists, all wobbling along at about 6 mph! Chaincased roadster wheel removal is enough of a chore that in the "good old days" a special tool was devised for spreading the rear forks of a roadster so that a ruined tube could be removed without removinbg the wheel. Now that's innovation! The process was to spin off the of side axle-nut and then lever the frame open. On relatively low strength roadster stays this was no problem There should be an extra link (2 pitches) in there.

YES, your chain is TOO TIGHT! It isn't a design fault, but a mechanic's mistake. for instructions on chain fitting and tension, look no further than the Raleigh handbook, kindly provided by PC in the Rollbritannia group. It really is that simple "The chain tension is correct when at point H it can be moved about 1/2"." Point H is halfway along its length. Make sure you have maybe 1/4" left in the slots and you'll be right.

BTW, a master link shouldn't be hard to find, and nor should a handful of spare links to add to your chain. Any local bikeshop which deals with BMX will have these for just a few cents. Most 1/8" chain is interchangable, and links from one brand pretty much match links from another. Modern endless chain is not actually a cheap choice, but rather is necessitated by derailleurs. Master links are a cheap and simple approach and should be applauded as such!

AGE / VALUE:   Anyone ever use posted by: sam on 11/19/2002 at 9:06:02 PM
the Bel water slide decal ink jet printer paper to make there own tranfers?

WANTED:   Research Project Help Sought posted by: P.C. Kohler on 11/19/2002 at 3:54:04 PM
I am endeavouring to make a chart of all the Raleigh Industries brands' cycle ranges c. 1950: model no., style name, specs. etc.

Does anyone out there have the Spare Parts List booklets (the big ones with the exploded diagrams) for: Raleigh, Robin Hood, Gazelle and Triumph? What I am looking for is the rear contents which lists all the model nos. and names; I don't need the whole booklet, just a scan or xerox of that back page. I already have Rudge and Humber.

I propose downloading this chart on Roll Britannia as a work in progress and hopefully those of you fortunate enough to have the individual catalogues c. 1948-1951 can help fill in the gaps for the specs.

But if anyone can help first with these model lists, please e-mail me privately. Many thanks!

P.C. Kohler

   RE:WANTED:   Research Project Help Sought posted by David Poston on 11/19/2002 at 10:46:32 PM

Is it just by chance that all your cycles happen to fall in the time frame of 1948-51, or is this your favourite era in British cycles? Fortunate you are to have gotten these old gems...


   RE:RE:WANTED:   Research Project Help Sought posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/19/2002 at 10:51:09 PM

P.C. Kohler

   RE:WANTED:   Research Project Help Sought posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/20/2002 at 1:37:45 AM
E- mail me your postal address

AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by: David on 11/19/2002 at 1:56:01 AM
Anyone care to comment on this? It looks newer. Export model? 26" wheels? It's got a lot going for it; drum brakes, B66, chaincase...


   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Scott Ebersole on 11/19/2002 at 3:28:29 AM
David, I agree it definitely looks like something newer than we are accustomed to have seen here in the US.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Scott Ebersole on 11/19/2002 at 3:52:12 AM
David, I now remember seeing one very similar to this at the Munson, MA bicycle swap meet last February. I remember it having the form rubber on the brake levers. The owner did tell me it was a later model than what had ever been imported here. I also think it had 26-inch rims.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Tim Powell on 11/19/2002 at 11:35:12 AM
It's odd that this bike says MAde in England as it looks like a Dutch Raleigh. I know that they imported some componenets from the UK but they usually say Assembled in Holland on the frame somewhere. There is a guy in the next town who has one of these, identical. He bought it in Holland complete with an owners manual in Dutch and German.



   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Mark R. on 11/19/2002 at 12:47:41 PM
That loos like the Dutch "Tourist" that the fellow on the internet has. If so it is a fine bicycle. Aren't those 27 in. wheels?

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/19/2002 at 4:13:47 PM
We discussed these machines in the summer the last time one of these came up on eBay. They are the "second generation" roadsters readily available in Denmark, Netherlands, Germany etc. (but oddly not the UK!)which combine off the shelf components of a more modern sort (cotterless cranks, alloy rims, plastic gearcases and mudguards etc, hub brakes)with a 2030 carbon lugged frame with relaxed angles etc. Originally these frames were Made in England c. 1983-86, some were indeed the DL-1 model. Now the frames must be made elsewhere.

Nice machines... they'd sell in the USA/Canada if anyone would bother to import them. And I reckon they're cheaper than the Pashleys which they so resemble (or is it vice versa?!).

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Michael K. on 11/19/2002 at 7:04:57 PM
I think I know who you're referring to...I correspond with a Dutch fellow named Aran, who I might've seen posting here...he has a website, the Tourist does have similarities...

I dropped him a line thru email...

Aran, come in Aran...are you there Aran? Do you read me? --Over...

   RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Mark R. on 11/19/2002 at 8:08:52 PM
I'd sure as hell buy one! I may bid on this one. Anyone wanna buy someof my old bikes so I can make room?

   RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/19/2002 at 8:28:01 PM
Sure, Mark-- I'd be interested! Like maybe a Rudge Pathfinder or Humber Clipper, or a 28" Humber rod-brake roadster with split forks, 26" frame, dynofour hub, blue or....

Or maybe that rusty Raleigh LTD-3 with mismatched rims?

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:RE:RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Michael on 11/20/2002 at 6:40:17 AM
Adding my 2 bits worth; definately 2nd gen roadster as someone put it.I had one in NZ, but not a Raleigh; something German and nameless by the time I got it. Not 26 or 27" inch tyres, but GERMAN 28x1 1/2 i.e. the same dia RIM as 700c but MUCH wider & fatter Tyres. Those rims were also in stainless (as was almost everything bar the frame). It shows the power of mighty Dunlop that the Germans still use INCHES on some of their tyres! (have had a few arguments about that one!). So were those Dutch Raleighs in 700 fat or 26". My German citybike had a HUGE honey coloured Lepper leather saddle. Not British, but rather nice. Note the alloy parts on the Raleigh pictured: everything on modern Euro roadsters is either alloy or stainless; minimal chrome.Also the nice dyno and lamp...bet it is QH and bet the wiring to the rear runs inside the mudguard. These bikes used to sell for around a thousand DM. still do? US$150 is a steal! One final note on this non British subject; Mine came with two rim brakes and a Torpedo 3 speed coaster, how's that for belt and braces?

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by Mark R. on 11/20/2002 at 11:49:19 AM
WOW! Dumb ass me never noticed the drum brakes! This really is a fine bike. I beleive it is a Dutch, not english Raleigh. I beleive they still sell this same model. Seems to me I did a search once, and found a shop in Holland that sell them.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by aran on 11/20/2002 at 6:58:01 PM
Nice bike :) Very good state. It indeed looks quite somewhat newer. Almost like a modern bike with a 'classical' design. It's got a lot more alloy than my 1974 "tourist". The luggage carrier looks like the things they mount on modern hybrid bikes. I'm not sure it was assembled in Holland, or if it was, it probably wasn't meant for the dutch market, as due to dutch traffic regulations, the last 30cm's or so of the rear mud guard must be painted white.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   Newer Raleigh on ebay - ?? posted by michael on 11/21/2002 at 6:24:31 AM
NZ regulations also used to demand a white strip, the law might even be on the books, something like "a red, rearward facing reflector no smaller than xxx and orange pedal reflectors or a red reflector and a white strip no smaller than xxx". This law was taken seriously, as evidenced by the previously beautiful, pinstriped rear guard on my '36 Jones Special lightweight. Sometime itn its life it was taken to by a vandal with a pot of white housepain. Eugh!

Oddly enough, here in China roadster and sports bikes come with the white strip, though I don't think there is any legal requirement. Maybe, having copied the Raleigh, the Chinese factories just decided the back of mudgaurds should be white?

AGE / VALUE:   P.C how about..... posted by: sam on 11/18/2002 at 5:28:53 PM
Talkin to Tom Finley.I think you might find his link on the Bunch-o-bikes site(look in links at oldroad for bunch o bikes)Anyway he took that Holland vacation and shipped his heavy Schwinn Phantom over and back.He's a very nice guy and lives near Stone Mountan in Ga.He might be able to give you some ideas on shipping.(maybe-maybe not ,worth a try)---sam

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Motor Bike posted by: Tom on 11/18/2002 at 2:33:40 PM
Does anyone have any info on this motor bike on ebay. It is a Hercules bike. Pedals and crank and a Whizzer style motor. It looks like Sturmey Archer hub brakes but they are on the wrong side both front and back. Rear one has gears on both sides. This is one sweet ride. The price is not bad if you look at the Whizzers going or that much. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=737613484

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Motor Bike posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/18/2002 at 5:27:48 PM
Not my line of country, but this is adorable! But NOT an English-made machine as the builders plate says Hercules Nurnberg. Thank goodness or this would wind up in my bedroom too...

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Motor Bike posted by David on 11/19/2002 at 1:59:27 AM
Very cool and sharp looking! Check out that rubber solo seat and fishtail muffler! Great German moped that puts Mobylettes and Solexes to shame!

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Hercules Motor Bike posted by Chris on 11/20/2002 at 2:03:35 AM
I have the write ups on this model Hercules and also an actual front rim N.O.S.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   the all-consuming hobby.. posted by: Brian on 11/18/2002 at 1:54:27 PM
I suspect that I speak for many of us when I say that the expenses associated with our hobby are way down the list of concerns in comparison to our love of these bicycles. Not only am I infatuated with these bikes - but with the quality, lifestyle and purposefulness that these bicycles represent. I am afraid that as I go through middle-age life, I'm becoming a more dedicated tinkerer and a less active rider!
"Holland is a dream Monsieur, a dream of gold & smoke - smokier by day, more gilded by night. And night & day that dream is peopled with Lohengrins like these, dreamily riding their black bicycles with high handlebars, funeral swans constantly drifting throughout the whole country, around the seas, and along the canals" Albert Camus

"Hobbies of any kind are boring except to people who have the same hobby..this is also true of religion, although you will not find me saying so in print" Dave Barry

AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh mascot posted by: Drew on 11/18/2002 at 1:35:33 AM
I'm looking for any information on Raleigh's Heron mascot, When fist used, origins, meaning, ect.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   Raleigh mascot posted by Michael K. on 11/19/2002 at 10:20:56 PM
Good Question...I've never wondered about that before...when did the Heron iconograpy start? and for what reasons? what year do you start seeing the Heron motif?

AGE / VALUE:   Dawes Club Bike posted by: Tom on 11/17/2002 at 9:39:39 PM
There is a very nice Dawes club style bike on ebay now. Looks very original. It looks 1950's but I am not sure. Anyone else seen it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=736898703&rd=1

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Dawes Club Bike posted by Warren on 11/18/2002 at 5:15:22 AM
OOOOoohhh...pretty bike.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Dawes Club Bike posted by michael on 11/20/2002 at 7:47:53 AM
This one could convert me into actually liking Dawes's. Very sweet.

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Someone is getting a great buy posted by: Tom on 11/17/2002 at 3:02:43 AM
I have been watching this auction and someone will get a great buy. When and where do we on this side of the pond find 6 rod brake bikes for under $100. Fully enclosed chain cases, dyno hubs, lights, 28" wheels, leather seats and more. Is there anyone on oldroads from England that is bidding on these bikes. Someone should and send them here for us. I am sure there is more than myself who would love to have them. Too bad the seller won't ship overseas. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=733171676&rd=1

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Someone is getting a great buy posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/17/2002 at 4:46:09 AM
Tom-- I've been watching this too. Even contacted some shippers/movers... just don't think I can work out anything in time alas. The seller wants these babies outta there in a hurry.... shame.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Someone is getting a great buy posted by Catfood Rob on 11/17/2002 at 9:11:06 PM
The problem is shipping... they weigh a ton, and shipping over to you would be 500 dollars easily...maybe more.
And over here, theyre worth what theyre going for on e-bay, 50 dollars for 6. Even restored bikes dont make more than a couple a hundred dollars over here...no one wants them, and those that do, have them coming out of their ears. I am restoring a late 30`s bsa, and everytime I buy something for it , everybody tells me itll never be worth what ive spent so far.... there really is no market for them over here. Ill end up spending $800 to restore a bike I couldnt sell for $150... MAKES ME WONDER WHY IM DOING IT...I COULD BUY A RESTORED ONE CHEAPER...BUT I WANT TO DO IT MYSELF

   RE:RE:ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Someone is getting a great buy posted by sam on 11/17/2002 at 9:39:31 PM
I think we all spend more than the bikes are worth.I told myself I didn't want to make any money on bikes because I wanted to keep this as a hobby and keep it fun.So far been real eazy to not make any money on them!Takes about $170 to ship one bike--but Rob you might want to keep an eye out for those enclosed chainguards and dino-3-speeds and brake parts and such. Bits that you might actually make some money on by selling to them to us.I see three guards that would sell eazy for $25 to $50 each plus shipping.Something to think on,Rob.

   Such a tragedy posted by David Poston on 11/17/2002 at 10:35:03 PM
All of us here at oldroads.com should band together and share the bill on this lot of roadsters. We could divide them up among us. I'd be happy with one or two of these. It's such a shame we don't get these offered here in the U.S. I suppose I need to move to England, if I'm really serious about these bikes.

Catfoot Rob, you say that fully restored ones are selling for $200. Can you hook us up with any sources? I, for one, would gladly pay the $200 + $150 shipping to get my hands on these. Why, you could even be our distributor :>. You'd make a ton as middleman.


   I feel like crying posted by David Poston on 11/17/2002 at 10:40:33 PM
I just noticed these roadsters sold for $66. I feel like crying. Alot of these machines looked prewar, too. Just imagine, $11 per cycle!


   RE:I feel like crying posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/18/2002 at 3:03:03 AM
No, David, I feel like (and AM!) going out and investigating alternatives to shipping cycles from England beyond UPS and FedEx etc. I am not saying they exist but it's time to do some seeking out new sources of shipping, air or sea.

I just hope these machines went to a good home.

And.. of course we all put more into these machines than they are worth. That's why, for me and most, it's a HOBBY not an investment or a BUSINESS. Do these cycles notice the love and care afforded them after 50 year of neglect? Well... mine do! My 1949 Rudge, that basket case I bought for $150, is the sweetest running thing on two wheels. Priceless now. And that's a nice thing.

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:I feel like crying posted by Edward in Vancouver on 11/18/2002 at 5:36:49 AM
In a very secret place, I have a shoe-box stuffed with reciepts from my '54 Superbe project. A true test of bravery will be one day to arm myself with a calculator and total up the reciepts. A very conservative guess would be $1,000.00 CDN. Why do I re-build a bike that garners no respect from my family? Why do I spend hours rebuilding a 4spd FG hub? Why do I spend months,(and in the case of a chaincase, years) tracking down obsolete parts? Um, 'cause I like to? Like Wanda the lotus eater said: The secret is not what's in the box, the secret is opening the box..

   The horror, the horror posted by David Poston on 11/18/2002 at 9:42:37 AM
I agree with all that's been said here, this business is no business at all or monetary investment for me. I've spent hours upon hours of rubbing, polishing, sanding, painting, thinking, and looking at these cycles. My living room has been a cycle workshop for the past two or three months. I recently undertook the task of itemizing all my expenses on an excel spreadsheet, and was horrified! (I subsequently stopped keeping track). I have easily spent $300 per cycle on new parts, accessories, decals, etc. + the cost of the original cycle (about $150-200). Not to mention bottles of rubbing and polishing compounds, wax, Simichrome, steel wool, etc.

Sometimes I kick myself when I watch six beauties get stolen for as much as I paid for a few reflectors or shifters, or when I find a pristine DL-1 on e-bay selling for less than what I paid for my scratched-up bike. On the other hand, I wouldn't let my bikes go for any price. I've invested so much time in them that they are like old friends.

I am just waiting for the final moment (which will hopefully be soon) when all of my cycles (I'm working on four at the moment) have gone through my rigorous restoration process and are fully reassembled again, just glistening and begging me to take them for a spin. Right now, I've got guts of cycles, dirty rags, and tools strewn all over my living room floor.


   RE:The horror, the horror posted by Chris on 11/20/2002 at 2:13:50 AM
One day you'll go to the faithful store to buy more simichrome and to your horror the wonderful place is now transformed into a strange, ugly, rude, expensive store stocked with idiots and they won't have it on shelf for you to buy. They won't have it in back, they won't have placed an order for more, they won't offer any explanation and they will simply tell you to buy Mothers brand.
I hope this does not happen to you. Simichrome is well loved by many people. I found it! I bought 5 cases with them looking at me with tilted heads. This is in the cans, too, not little tubes. They said there is no problem and that they can order more. I am not taking chances. Ever notice in the grocery store as they quietly phase out well known and historic and unique brands in favor of the store's pet generic brand without any explanation? Then they jack up the price to match what the better brand was selling at? Most importantly, your choices are limited or eleminated.
Oh, we don't carry that!

ENGLISH ROADSTERS:   Rudge Spare Parts List posted by: P.C. Kohler on 11/16/2002 at 10:40:11 PM
The Rudge Spare Parts List (the great c. 1950 booklet with the cool exploded diagrams of every cycle in the range) has now been scanned and is to be found in the Files Section of Roll Britannia.

I have the companion booklet for Humber. Essentially the same. But haven't been able to justify the expense of acquiring the ones for Raleigh, Triumph, Robin Hood and Gazelle.

Now if we just jot down these part numbers and send an order to Raleigh Industries, Lenton Blvd., Nottingham. Heck, I might just try!!

P.C. Kohler

AGE / VALUE:   Grey torpedo grips VS. Dare type/ Mountain bike rant posted by: Chris on 11/16/2002 at 9:31:42 PM
Grey grips. The Raleigh torpedo grey grips are ok, but on this latest bike the blunt cut end of the handlebar has cut through the grip on one side and I wish Raleigh had put in some type of handlebar end plug and then had a handlebar grip around or over that. The dare grips are perhaps a little bit safer and they are more comfortable too.
In some freak accident I don't want the beloved handlebar being rammed into my sides and through me.
I saw a travelog piece on T.V.and the dude is riding a bike about the Emerald Isle( Ireland) and he's riding a piece of crap mountain bike. It was horrifying to see. It is the equivilent of short circuiting the magic of Ireland to have visitors and even residents to be riding mountain bikes of foreign origin.

   RE:AGE / VALUE: Grey torpedo grips VS. Dare type/ Mountain bike rant posted by Sheldon Brown on 11/17/2002 at 4:24:36 AM
A great trick from the BMX world: pop a nickel into your grips before installing them. This protects them from the sharp ends of the handlebar!

I've got some pretty nice repro grips that are very like the ribbed black Dare units:


Sheldon "Get A Grip!" Brown

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Grey torpedo grips VS. Dare type/ Mountain bike rant posted by humberchristopher28@hotmail.com on 11/17/2002 at 8:55:06 PM
Excellent idea! I have never heard of doing that before, not till now. Low cost (10 cents) safety addition.
It's cool to see Sheldon offer these repo Dare grips. So many times a handlebar grip gets damaged or lost.

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE: Grey torpedo grips VS. Dare type/ Mountain bike rant posted by Mark Rehder on 11/18/2002 at 9:08:01 AM
I have a pair of the repro grips that Sheldon mentions (a friend of mine picked them up for me while at Harris Cyclery). And I agree with what Sheldon says at his site - these grips do indeed feel just a bit nicer than the original Raleigh ones. I have the old grips on my Twenty, and these repros have a slightly softer and more comfy feel. Perhaps because the rubber is new and pliable and not thirty years old? Or because it's of a different compound? Whichever; I like 'em, and highly recommend them!

Cheers, Mark

AGE / VALUE:   You can call it: Brand Loyality! Yea! posted by: Chris on 11/16/2002 at 9:14:02 PM
What is up with Happich Simichrome polish? I am good and agrivated too.
Nowhere to be found. I mean, No- where, anywhere. So I take my walking stick and my coat and I'll set off into the night and I won't be back until I have cases upon cases of this stuff. Best darned metal cleaner on the planet. I won't use Mothers brand. You can, it's good, it works, I won't slam it. I just don't want it. I want what I like, what I have been using and I refuse to switch. I'll find it, it's out there!
They just look at me and don't answer when I ask
" Why?" "Where is it?" I went clear across town and into places just for this.
Wish me luck, friends.

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   You can call it: Brand Loyality! Yea! posted by P.C. Kohler on 11/16/2002 at 10:39:19 PM
Try Linens n' Things. I'm not kidding....

P.C. Kohler

   RE:RE:AGE / VALUE:   You can call it: Brand Loyality! Yea! posted by Stacey on 11/17/2002 at 12:07:03 PM
How many tubes do you want? My local Manny, Moe & Jack has it in droves. Lessee... at $25.00 a tube times cases and cases, why "Hello Barbados!" LOL

   RE:AGE / VALUE:   You can call it: Brand Loyality! Yea! posted by Mark R. on 11/18/2002 at 5:05:48 PM
Hey! You can order it through Competition Chemicals. They stock it, and the have it in 1000 ml cans. It's great stuff! Takes the blue off of your pipes on your motorcycle as well!!!